Mini 804 - The Resistance - Mod Abandoned
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- Albert B. Rampage
- Albert B. Rampage
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Albert B. Rampage
- Illogical Rampage
- Illogical Rampage
- Posts: 27261
- Joined: April 8, 2007
- Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
- forbiddanlight
- forbiddanlight
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forbiddanlight
- Blowfish
- Blowfish
- Posts: 5882
- Joined: May 30, 2008
- Location: VA
- Contact:
Already covered. You suggest I read your posts, but how about you read mine?Hey dumbass, why do you think I'm a spy?
However, for ease and convenience, you quite simply refuse to give any reasons why I'm scum while accusing me, you use personal attacks, which is quite frankly, a horrible way to play as town (I'll pull up the post on it in a bit if I have to), you for some reason think discussion is deadly but have not fully explained why, and overall have been doing NOTHING to assist the town.
"Never have I seen anybody glorify their own lynch."
-StrangerCoug
TTGL Mafia is over. Going to mod [b]Umineko No [color=red]Na[/color]ku Koro Ni[/b] Mafia. Pre-/ins, as always, are accepted.
-StrangerCoug
TTGL Mafia is over. Going to mod [b]Umineko No [color=red]Na[/color]ku Koro Ni[/b] Mafia. Pre-/ins, as always, are accepted.
- Albert B. Rampage
- Albert B. Rampage
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Albert B. Rampage
- Illogical Rampage
- Illogical Rampage
- Posts: 27261
- Joined: April 8, 2007
- Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
- forbiddanlight
- forbiddanlight
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forbiddanlight
- Blowfish
- Blowfish
- Posts: 5882
- Joined: May 30, 2008
- Location: VA
- Contact:
Why is this bad?
1) You try to extend the days as much as possible.
Examples? The whole self nom thing is rather well delineated.
2) You contradict yourself.
I do that as either alignment. So what if I'm friendly?
3) You buddy up with other players too much
"Never have I seen anybody glorify their own lynch."
-StrangerCoug
TTGL Mafia is over. Going to mod [b]Umineko No [color=red]Na[/color]ku Koro Ni[/b] Mafia. Pre-/ins, as always, are accepted.
-StrangerCoug
TTGL Mafia is over. Going to mod [b]Umineko No [color=red]Na[/color]ku Koro Ni[/b] Mafia. Pre-/ins, as always, are accepted.
- Fishythefish
- Fishythefish
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Fishythefish
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 4362
- Joined: November 2, 2008
- Location: England
He's right on this one.Albert B. Rampage wrote:That's really really dumb.Knight of Cydonia wrote:While I don't agree with ABR's frankly psychotic attacks in the main, I do agree that FL's flip-flop on self-nomination is extremely scummy. Therefore, I willsupport any proposal that doesn't include FL or ABR.
If you believe FL is a spy, you wouldn't accept a proposal she makes just because she's not in it. This is a completely incoherent attitude as a townie, and looks very bad.
- PsychoSniper
- PsychoSniper
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PsychoSniper
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 359
- Joined: August 30, 2008
Here's what I think:
If we're going to go with what FL is suggesting (voting for our 3 candidates), I think we need to just put forth our votes
My reasoning is, if say for example, most people agree with this combination:
"I vote X, Y, and Z. I believe X & Y are scum, and I'm going for a scummy ticket."
If Z is, in fact, the scum, nothing is going to stop him sabotaging since he knows he's not going to get most of the suspicion for that when there are 2 others under suspicion in the group.
Whomever we put in the group, we
If we don't reveal what "ticket" we're going for, the scum, if nominated, won't know whether they're getting the spot because they're being trusted or suspected. That makes it harder for them to decide whether they should sabotage. Whatever our motivation for voting whom we vote for can wait till
If we're going to go with what FL is suggesting (voting for our 3 candidates), I think we need to just put forth our votes
without
specifying whether we're going for townie or scummy ticket, or whom we suspect, at least not yet.My reasoning is, if say for example, most people agree with this combination:
"I vote X, Y, and Z. I believe X & Y are scum, and I'm going for a scummy ticket."
If Z is, in fact, the scum, nothing is going to stop him sabotaging since he knows he's not going to get most of the suspicion for that when there are 2 others under suspicion in the group.
Whomever we put in the group, we
don't
want them to know if they're suspected by over half the town and under heavy scrutiny. That was one of my reasons for not wanting detalied discussions about whom each person suspect until later. I equated this game with the Dethy Mafia for a reason. I think in a game like this, the discussion has to be centred around the results
, not the empty sepculation before it.If we don't reveal what "ticket" we're going for, the scum, if nominated, won't know whether they're getting the spot because they're being trusted or suspected. That makes it harder for them to decide whether they should sabotage. Whatever our motivation for voting whom we vote for can wait till
after
we see the results.- Fishythefish
- Fishythefish
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Fishythefish
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 4362
- Joined: November 2, 2008
- Location: England
I think the scum knowing what we are thinking is a small price to pay for discussion and scumhunting, likely leading to better results.
Your strategy is going to lead to a mixture of suspected and non-suspected players. This is more likely to be a mix of scum and townie (hopefully)- which isn't the sort of ticket we want.
Your strategy is going to lead to a mixture of suspected and non-suspected players. This is more likely to be a mix of scum and townie (hopefully)- which isn't the sort of ticket we want.
- PsychoSniper
- PsychoSniper
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PsychoSniper
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 359
- Joined: August 30, 2008
I don't really see what kind of "better" results it'll lead to. I think giving scum too much info about what we think will allow them to manipulate the result into what they want us to see. Letting a scum knows he's heavily suspected gives him advanced warning to fake his move and not sabotage. Letting a scum knows that he's being teamed with townies under suspicion provides him with good scapegoats.Fishythefish wrote:I think the scum knowing what we are thinking is a small price to pay for discussion and scumhunting, likely leading to better results.
Your strategy is going to lead to a mixture of suspected and non-suspected players. This is more likely to be a mix of scum and townie (hopefully)- which isn't the sort of ticket we want.
And there's very likely to be a mixture of scum and townie at the end in any case. I highly doubt we have any chance of getting a pure 3-town or 3-scum group right now. Considering there are 4 scum out of 9, literally every single townie will have to agree upon a certain group for that to happen, or the Proposal will likely get voted out/rejected by scum anyway.
Do we even have a consensus on what
is
"the sort of ticket we want" yet?Mod: My internet access will be limited for the next few days. I might not be able to post again until (latest) Saturday.
- Fishythefish
- Fishythefish
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Fishythefish
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 4362
- Joined: November 2, 2008
- Location: England
Just because we don't have a consensus on whether we want a ticket comprising three scummy or three townie players doesn't mean that a jumble of some of each is acceptable.
If scum have to put forward their opinions, then it is much harder for them to vote down a plan. The vote is open, and if someone makes a vote which is not in line with their general stances, that looks suspicious. Keeping your feelings private leads to easy post hoc justifications of actions which benefit the scum.
The chances of getting a pure ticket may be pretty small. But a 2-scum ticket is acceptable, and I think the chances of getting at least 2 scum on a ticket are pretty good.
If scum have to put forward their opinions, then it is much harder for them to vote down a plan. The vote is open, and if someone makes a vote which is not in line with their general stances, that looks suspicious. Keeping your feelings private leads to easy post hoc justifications of actions which benefit the scum.
The chances of getting a pure ticket may be pretty small. But a 2-scum ticket is acceptable, and I think the chances of getting at least 2 scum on a ticket are pretty good.
- Crazy
- Crazy
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Crazy
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 4435
- Joined: May 6, 2008
- Location: Somewhere
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It seems like this is becoming logic vs. scumhunting. I'll admit I joined this game for the logic, but since then I've swayed to the other side. But what we have to watch is that everyone doesn't automatically think the other side is scum... I mean the scum isn't automatically gonna be either "Nabnab/Fishy/Ort" or "ABR/Psycho/veerus," right? I think I've gotten into the wrong mindset, here.
I disagree with Psycho in this case, though, since most everyone already knows where they stand... and he is expressing a situation where nobody reveals any opinions... which is not only bad but impossible since the opinions are already out there.
I disagree with Psycho in this case, though, since most everyone already knows where they stand... and he is expressing a situation where nobody reveals any opinions... which is not only bad but impossible since the opinions are already out there.
I think PsychoSniper's opinions are actually quite well argued. I don't think he has scummy motivations for arguing this way.
That said I think it's going to be obvious what we're opting for at this point based on what we've previously stated.
My current suspected distribution of rebels is me, Fish, PsychoSniper, Naba and ABR
That said I think it's going to be obvious what we're opting for at this point based on what we've previously stated.
My current suspected distribution of rebels is me, Fish, PsychoSniper, Naba and ABR
Currently modding Mole Mafia: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=20529
Feel free to PM me to be ready in case I need a replacement.
Feel free to PM me to be ready in case I need a replacement.
actually that doesn't seem like such a bad idea to me if we get everyone to give a list of who exactly they think is most likely to be town/scum at this point in time. Any dodginess in the lists may well be apparent.
I will also make the point about KoC that his play is indistinguishable from that in Election Mafia where he was scum for me. That's the only game I have for meta reference. Plus I haven't liked some of his posts, will look over tomorrow.
I will also make the point about KoC that his play is indistinguishable from that in Election Mafia where he was scum for me. That's the only game I have for meta reference. Plus I haven't liked some of his posts, will look over tomorrow.
Currently modding Mole Mafia: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=20529
Feel free to PM me to be ready in case I need a replacement.
Feel free to PM me to be ready in case I need a replacement.
- Crazy
- Crazy
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Crazy
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 4435
- Joined: May 6, 2008
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I don't think he has scum motivations either... I just don't agree with him.ortolan wrote:I think PsychoSniper's opinions are actually quite well argued. I don't think he has scummy motivations for arguing this way.
I'm gonna read again before I say who I think the team of 5 rebels is, since there are a couple people who I just haven't noticed one way or the other.
- forbiddanlight
- forbiddanlight
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forbiddanlight
- Blowfish
- Blowfish
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Ok...so, should I just put forward the proposal I put or should we do guided? I'm not sure what you all are saying, and now I notice rebel lists being made.
"Never have I seen anybody glorify their own lynch."
-StrangerCoug
TTGL Mafia is over. Going to mod [b]Umineko No [color=red]Na[/color]ku Koro Ni[/b] Mafia. Pre-/ins, as always, are accepted.
-StrangerCoug
TTGL Mafia is over. Going to mod [b]Umineko No [color=red]Na[/color]ku Koro Ni[/b] Mafia. Pre-/ins, as always, are accepted.
- Crazy
- Crazy
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Crazy
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 4435
- Joined: May 6, 2008
- Location: Somewhere
- Contact:
Well, I don't trust your original proposal, because I think you're scum, and now I'm thinking Nabnab is scum. Fishy I'm unsure about.forbiddanlight wrote:Ok...so, should I just put forward the proposal I put or should we do guided? I'm not sure what you all are saying, and now I notice rebel lists being made.
It doesn't seem like everyone's really in for a whole-town guided proposal, though...
- forbiddanlight
- forbiddanlight
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forbiddanlight
- Blowfish
- Blowfish
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Well, I honestly don't care about your opinion because I feel that you are scum and pretty obviously trying to mislead me. But whatever.
Well, I don't trust your original proposal, because I think you're scum, and now I'm thinking Nabnab is scum. Fishy I'm unsure about.
It doesn't seem like everyone's really in for a whole-town guided proposal, though...
"Never have I seen anybody glorify their own lynch."
-StrangerCoug
TTGL Mafia is over. Going to mod [b]Umineko No [color=red]Na[/color]ku Koro Ni[/b] Mafia. Pre-/ins, as always, are accepted.
-StrangerCoug
TTGL Mafia is over. Going to mod [b]Umineko No [color=red]Na[/color]ku Koro Ni[/b] Mafia. Pre-/ins, as always, are accepted.
- Crazy
- Crazy
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Crazy
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 4435
- Joined: May 6, 2008
- Location: Somewhere
- Contact:
How am I trying to mislead you? I've hardly stuck to the same opinion for more than 5 minutes at a time in this game, and my last post clearly didn't have a point at all.forbiddanlight wrote:Well, I honestly don't care about your opinion because I feel that you are scum and pretty obviously trying to mislead me. But whatever.
Well, I don't trust your original proposal, because I think you're scum, and now I'm thinking Nabnab is scum. Fishy I'm unsure about.
It doesn't seem like everyone's really in for a whole-town guided proposal, though...
- forbiddanlight
- forbiddanlight
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forbiddanlight
- Blowfish
- Blowfish
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- Location: VA
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That post came out badly. What I meant was mislead the town...it was badly phrased.
How am I trying to mislead you? I've hardly stuck to the same opinion for more than 5 minutes at a time in this game, and my last post clearly didn't have a point at all.
"Never have I seen anybody glorify their own lynch."
-StrangerCoug
TTGL Mafia is over. Going to mod [b]Umineko No [color=red]Na[/color]ku Koro Ni[/b] Mafia. Pre-/ins, as always, are accepted.
-StrangerCoug
TTGL Mafia is over. Going to mod [b]Umineko No [color=red]Na[/color]ku Koro Ni[/b] Mafia. Pre-/ins, as always, are accepted.
- Fishythefish
- Fishythefish
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Fishythefish
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 4362
- Joined: November 2, 2008
- Location: England
Fish I meant in the same format as mine. Who would you say, if you had to choose, your five picks for most town are (you know the distribution of the game includes five rebels so who would you wager those are if forced to choose the most likely)? Feel free to also indulge me Crazy and FL and anyone who posts subsequently.
Currently modding Mole Mafia: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=20529
Feel free to PM me to be ready in case I need a replacement.
Feel free to PM me to be ready in case I need a replacement.
- Crazy
- Crazy
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Crazy
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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- Location: Somewhere
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Isn't the answer to this question rather obvious?ortolan wrote:Fish I meant in the same format as mine. Who would you say, if you had to choose, your five picks for most town are (you know the distribution of the game includes five rebels so who would you wager those are if forced to choose the most likely)?
- Knight of Cydonia
- Knight of Cydonia
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Knight of Cydonia
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3482
- Joined: June 23, 2008
- Fishythefish
- Fishythefish
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Fishythefish
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 4362
- Joined: November 2, 2008
- Location: England
Hmmm? My post doesn't label you a spy. To clarify, when I say I can't read you it means I can't read you. I've no idea what you are.Knight of Cydonia wrote:Oh, I like that. You can't read me, therefore I'm a spy. Charming.
The rebels, in descending order of confidence:
Me, NabNab, ort, FL. I suppose the fifth would be KoC.
Pyscho fits in with the theory that my proposal was good for scum- he supports it with half-baked ideas:
Daytalk paranoia- daytalk is something to look out for, but as long as we do that it can't happen without immense risks for the scumPsychoSniper wrote:So yeah, I agree with Fishy. Daytalk in the thread is the only way for scum to communicate, and there's nothing concrete for town to discuss until we see the results of the first porposal, so short day benefits town today.
At the time, Crazy was being suspected of breadcrumbing. Having a breadcrumbe in the plans is a terrible idea. I don't like the phrasing, "if more people are suspicious of Crazy"- it displays an unwillingness to commit to a position himself. If Pyscho thinks Crazy is suspect, then he should say so- if not, the argument is invalid.PsychoSniper wrote:Also, wouldn't the logical strategy be to leave the scummier players in the plan to gain more information? If more people are suspicious of Crazy, that's a logical place to start, he should be left in.
This makes no sense- as Psycho had already acknowledged, we don't want a 1-scum proposal. If ABR and NN don't look bad, that was a reason to vote down my proposal.PsychoSniper wrote:But I still believe it makes more sense to keep some scummier-looking players in the proposal. Unless we have reason to suspect both ABR and NN as well, I see no reason to cahnge the random setup.
From this point of view, we need to keep all of our opinions secret- pretty much as Psycho goes on to say.PsychoSniper wrote: Good job, you've just told you're fellow scum that "Hey, if you get grouped with Psycho, feel free to sabotage, because we'll just blame it on him!"
This post is afarbetter example of possible scum communication than anything Crazy has posted so far.
Seriously, stop giving scum hints of what to do, intentional or not!
His recent ideas are interesting, but in practise don't work. We can't just take a mishmash of whoever people want, with no consensus as to whether we want scum or town- that will just end up as a horrible mixed bag of protown and scummy players. I find the idea of hiding our opinions most antitown- we want to be able to pin scum to their positions. Particularly if people express their thoughts before a proposal, it's going to be harder to justify voting a convenient way for the scum. The flipside, of course, is that if FL is a spy she can craft the proposal to get accepted while still being proscum.
This is not exactly a brilliant case. But all in all, Psycho fits well with the idea that scum were in favour of the random proposal. If he is scum, I would expect exactly one of the people on my ticket to be scum- and conversely, if there is one scum on there Pyscho is a likely candidate.