Mafiascum.net

↑ MagnaofIllusion wrote:Are you not reading the game? Benmage asked me for instances (like A Feast of Crows Mafia, where I was scum) where I started the game with the ‘last to confirm’ RVS vote. Here I responded with the one game I found (Open 320) where I was scum like Feast of Crows.

You mean this? How does this explain the "also" part in "I was scum there also?"

You ninjaed me.

↑ MagnaofIllusion wrote:

↑ PeregrineV wrote:As in, what if you "plan" to make that post, but the mod comes in and posts the death scene? Then where would we be?

I'm not worried about that for reason that should be clear if you were following along.

I have been, but nothing's been clear how you can make Jason hold off flipping you once you've been lynched.

Here's the script with everything else blocked out:

Benmage - "Can you name a town game where you opened that way?" [with an RVS vote based on confirmation order]
MoI - "Aside from this one? I have no clue."
Benmage - "If its a common enough occurrence it shouldn't be an issue."
MoI - "It’s not very common at all. In fact the only other occurance I could find was - Open 320: Tit for Tat - I was scum there also"

THAT looks like a slip. I didn't notice it until knox brought it up and I read the posts in sequence [as posted].

↑ Korlash wrote:What if he makes that post and them someone other than you comes in and hammers?

Does that matter? I'm debating whether to hammer, but the result would still be the same regardless of who hammers.

↑ Korlash wrote:What if he makes that post and four people unvote him?

???
Then they may be town, and feel he's town.
They may be scum and want him alive.

I'm missing the point of both of these questions as to why MoI should NOT give the reads I asked.

↑ Korlash wrote:How is posting reads based on information that isn't true a pro-town act exactly?

???
Wow, I don't know what to say.
If he lies about his reads, ans he is town, then he's not playing to win.
If he lies about his read and he is scum, then who cares, he's scum.

↑ MagnaofIllusion wrote:

Benmage wrote: If its a common enough occurrence it shouldn't be an issue. I'd appreciate if you can, I'll ho into more details later tonight.

It’s not very common at all. In fact the only other occurance I could find was -

Open 320: Tit for Tat

I was scum there also

. I gave up looking at the end of page 3 of my egosearch threads list.

--

Yates has a point.

Yates wrote:You mean this? How does this explain the "also" part in "I was scum there also?"

How am I suppose to know, why don't you ask him? It doesn't matter how it does or even if it does, the fact is he said it making your statement:

Yates wrote:Basically, rather than explain himself his reaction was to vote for the person that brought it up.

...a bold face lie.

Now I'll be honest, if you asked me to actually explain it I could. It seems quite obvious to me. But I'll refrain from doing that and just focus on your false accusations.

Yates wrote:Here's the script with everything else blocked out:

Benmage - "Can you name a town game where you opened that way?" [with an RVS vote based on confirmation order]
MoI - "Aside from this one? I have no clue."
Benmage - "If its a common enough occurrence it shouldn't be an issue."
MoI - "It’s not very common at all. In fact the only other occurance I could find was - Open 320: Tit for Tat - I was scum there also"

THAT looks like a slip. I didn't notice it until knox brought it up and I read the posts in sequence [as posted].

You cut out the first part of the scrip. Stop doctoring the evidence to fit your imaginary theory.

Pere wrote:Does that matter? I'm debating whether to hammer, but the result would still be the same regardless of who hammers.

No it wouldn't, the person who hammers would be different so his opinion of that person would clearly change. As would his opinion of you.

Pere wrote:???
Then they may be town, and feel he's town.
They may be scum and want him alive.

I'm missing the point of both of these questions as to why MoI should NOT give the reads I asked.

Why SHOULD he then?

Pere wrote:Wow, I don't know what to say.
If he lies about his reads, ans he is town, then he's not playing to win.
If he lies about his read and he is scum, then who cares, he's scum.

This... makes no fucking sense. I'm going to assume you didn't understand me.

Why would him telling you reads based on something you MADE UP that DOESN'T CURRENTLY EXISTS qualify as a pro-town act? This has nothing to do with him lying, it has to do with the situation you've given him being untrue and hypothetical.

Pere wrote:Yates has a point.

No, he doesn't. Take the time to actually look into it before you decide whether you want to risk being dragged down with him over this. There is no 'scum slip' and Yotes has conveniently overlooked evidence twice now while pushing it.

@Korlash, so your question wasn't

Korlash wrote:How is posting reads based on information that isn't true a pro-town act exactly?

It was more like,

What Korlash meant? wrote:How is posting reads based on

a hypothetical situation

a pro-town act exactly?

Would that be accurate?

↑ PeregrineV wrote:

↑ MagnaofIllusion wrote:

Benmage wrote: If its a common enough occurrence it shouldn't be an issue. I'd appreciate if you can, I'll ho into more details later tonight.

It’s not very common at all. In fact the only other occurance I could find was -

Open 320: Tit for Tat

I was scum there also

. I gave up looking at the end of page 3 of my egosearch threads list.

--

Yates has a point.

↑ Korlash wrote:
No, he doesn't. Take the time to actually look into it before you decide whether you want to risk being dragged down with him over this. There is no 'scum slip' and Yotes has conveniently overlooked evidence twice now while pushing it.

Crazy me. Here I am quoting where MoI says "I was scum there also." Also, means "In addition to". So, how would it NOT be a slip?

Pere wrote:Would that be accurate?

A hypothetical situation is information that isn't true so yes, totally accurate. In retrospect, perhaps I should have used better phrasing but thank you for taking the time to double check.

Now that that's clear... You can answer the question I think.

Pere wrote:Crazy me. Here I am quoting where MoI says "I was scum there also." Also, means "In addition to". So, how would it NOT be a slip?

Why don't you do something Yates hasn't been able to and tell me how it is a scum slip and we'll go from there.

To tide you over though, in simplest terms you have taken it out of context to a degree.

↑ Korlash wrote:

Pere wrote:Would that be accurate?

A hypothetical situation is information that isn't true so yes, totally accurate. In retrospect, perhaps I should have used better phrasing but thank you for taking the time to double check.

Now that that's clear... You can answer the question I think.

A hypothetical could or could not be true. It is not, by definition, not true. That would remove it from being a hypothetical, and make it something else.

Korlash wrote:How is posting reads based on a hypothetical situation a pro-town act exactly?

Well, everything town posts at this point is hypothetical. They know one alignment, and everything else is a state of unknown to them.
So, let's strip that out, and answer the question.

Korlash wrote:How is posting read a pro-town act exactly?

Well, it allows other players into your motivation for your posts. If they attribute town motivation to your posts, they will likely find you town. If not, they will find you scummy.

↑ Korlash wrote:

Pere wrote:Crazy me. Here I am quoting where MoI says "I was scum there also." Also, means "In addition to". So, how would it NOT be a slip?

Why don't you do something Yates hasn't been able to and tell me how it is a scum slip and we'll go from there.

To tide you over though, in simplest terms you have taken it out of context to a degree.

Well. Exactly two games are being referenced. The tit-for-tat thing, and this one.
MoI's use of "also", indicates that he was scum in that one in the same manner as he is scum in this one.
If he was scum there, but town here, it would be more natural to say "I was scum there."

Pere wrote:A hypothetical could or could not be true. It is not, by definition, not true. That would remove it from being a hypothetical, and make it something else.

Now you're getting into semantics. At the time of giving his list, the hypothetical situation would not be true. Whether it might or might not be true later is irrelevant for the question i asked.

Pere wrote:Well, everything town posts at this point is hypothetical. They know one alignment, and everything else is a state of unknown to them.

This is false and more to the point a tangential deflect from my question. What townies 'know' is irrelevant. You asked for reads, reads are based on tangible things. Posts that have been made are real and exist, so basing reads on them makes sense. You asked MOi to make reads based on posts that exist two pages from now. Made up, fake, non-existant posts. THUS, making reads on them is irrelevant.

Now, I took liberties here. You didn't actually say "posts" or 'two pages from now" but it's all the same shit. You asked him to base reads off something that exists in the future, thus you asked him to base reads on something you made up. (A hypothetical situation that did not and would not have at the time he gave the reads be true)

So ignoring your shitty answer where you intentionally stripped out my entire point, explain to me how it's pro-town to give reads based on stuff that hasn't happened yet?

Pere wrote:Well. Exactly two games are being referenced. The tit-for-tat thing, and this one.

Nope. Lies. I warned you before this started to look into it. Now you've intentionally spread slander on another player over a situation you decided not to even look into. Enjoy your scum points.

The rest of that paragraph is irrelevant since your premise was a lie. needless to say the entire thing was you talking out of your ass. There is a third game being referenced which both you and Yates ignored.

We need a :sideways glare: emoticon for this situation.

↑ Korlash wrote:You cut out the first part of the scrip.

Bullshit. I will link for Town convenience.

↑ Korlash wrote:There is a third game being referenced which both you and Yates ignored.

Are you referring to "affc?"

↑ Benmage wrote:MoI, did you open affc with that last to confirm thing, or am I misremembering... on phone.

Is this a game or an acronym? I wikied it and all I came up with was something from RedFF where he used "affc" but didn't make it more clear. Even if that's a game, it does nothing to disprove the point. If anything, he just said he opened two games like that and he was scum in both so how does that the case?


How about this, Korlash, instead of sitting back and nitpicking my posts you present a counter-argument? I know I'm not perfect. If I fuck something up, feel free to point it out instead of saying "neener neener I see something you don't see - can you find it?" This was a perfectly wasteful exercise and I don't see the Town motivation behind it. I also notice that you went about this argument without actually taking a stand on anything. Is MoI scum or Town? You seem to hate my posts, you seem to infer that they are scummy, why don't you come right out and say it? Do you think I'm scum? You need to commit to something other than your RVS vote on yourself. I am not impressed with you or your play. Congratulations. You got me to call out ALL of the big egos in this game.

Yates wrote:Bullshit. I will link for Town convenience.

... Not bull shit. You started your 'script' three posts into the conversation. you clearly cut out the first part. And your link has no relevance to this point so I don't get why you included it...

Yates wrote:Is this a game or an acronym? I wikied it and all I came up with was something from RedFF where he used "affc" but didn't make it more clear. Even if that's a game, it does nothing to disprove the point. If anything, he just said he opened two games like that and he was scum in both so how does that weaken the case?

I have come to assume 'affc' is the game MOI mentioned (A feast of crows) Although like I said that is only an assumption. I also assumed MOI was scum in that game, either Ben or MOI can tell me if I'm wrong on either account.

And it destroys your scum tell because the word "ALSO" was in reference to tit for tat and affc, not this game. When i first looked into this 'scum tell' of yours I could understand that within five seconds of reading PLUS MOI even said that in his post 72. Your scum tell is complete crap and you appear willfully ignorance of important details like the presence of a third game or how the bloody conversation even started.

Yates wrote:How about this, Korlash, instead of sitting back and nitpicking my posts you present a counter-argument? I know I'm not perfect. If I fuck something up, feel free to point it out instead of saying "neener neener I see something you don't see - can you find it?" This was a perfectly wasteful exercise and I don't see the Town motivation behind it. I also notice that you went about this argument without actually taking a stand on anything. Is MoI scum or Town? You seem to hate my posts, you seem to infer that they are scummy, why don't you come right out and say it? Do you think I'm scum? You need to commit to something other than your RVS vote on yourself. I am not impressed with you or your play. Congratulations. You got me to call out ALL of the big egos in this game.

What do you think I've been trying to do? You choose to constantly refuse to answer my question about what made it a scum tell. Until you put that in writing, I have nothing to counter. Until you outright tell me what I'm arguing against, i have no place to lay a counter argument. Don't try to play it like I've been dancing around you this whole time when you couldn't even muster a post to describe your own claim mate.

And whining about me not taking a stance is sad and pathetic. If you could properly defend your actions you wouldn't have to try and throw the spotlight onto me to save your hide. How about you leave the daring taunting to true masters like Fate and MOI and stick to simply answering the questions I ask of you. As hard as it is to believe, you aren't going to be able to play me and common tricks like this will only end with me beating you to death with a stick and the whole town cheering me on while I do it.

So you're likely to ignore any question I throw at you I find this next part really will be pointless but alas, I must do what I must.

Why should my opinion of MOI's alignment factor into your shit attacks or my comments on them? If I attack you and you properly defend yourself, why should my opinion on your alignment factor into it? Why should you even care, if you're able to properly justify your actions it wouldn't matter if I thought you were scum or not.

On side notes: I don't "need" to "commit" to anything. That's scum thinking. I don't need to impress you because I impress myself just fine, which is good enough for me. AND... I have another joke...

If quizzes make you quizzical, what do tests make you?

This whole post is a pile of shit, korlash. It's you waving your e-penis around trying to intimidate newer players and, again, it is not impressive to me.

- Why should you commit to anything? Is this a serious question? You are going to sit there and honestly tell me it is SCUMMY to take a position? Bullshit.

- You are trying to claim that I'm not answering your questions? Try doing an ISO on me and look at my last half dozen or so posts. Bullshit.

- You are going to beat me to death with a stick when I call you out on your bullshit? Seriously? You think this statement somehow makes you Town? Bullshit.

- You claim I'm trying to "play you" by asking you to get off the fence? Like that's some kind of scum tactic? Bullshit.

Now, you're correct about one thing, I will be ignoring future questions from you unless *I* deem them pertinent to scum hunting or advancing the game.

And see. You choose to ignore the actual points raised in my post to focus on the apish chest bumping. Why don't you go back to my 214, ignore all the e-penis things, and try to return the discussion back to your fake 'scum tell' you attempted to push on MOI.

Why don't you instead go back and rewrite post 214 leaving the e-penis stuff out so I can actually make sense of it. Feel free to list your questions in numerical order so I can assuage ALL of your concerns, White Knight.

Also, make it snappy. I'm going V/LA in a bit for the weekend to win a brew competition.

Yates wrote:Why don't you instead go back and rewrite post 214 leaving the e-penis stuff out so I can actually make sense of it. Feel free to list your questions in numerical order so I can assuage ALL of your concerns, White Knight.

Fair enough, but I'll be quite cross if I do all that and you stick to your "i will be ignoring all your future questions" thing... *shakes finger*

1) When you wrote your "script" post, you ignored Ben's first post in the discussion chain. This post mentioned affc and made it quite clear it was some former game the two were in. Why didn't you include his and MOI's response posts and what was the point of that link you included?

2) How is what MOI did a scum slip?

3) Why does my opinion on MOI make any difference to my questions and iquiries towards you?

4) Why should I feel the 'need' to commit to anything?

Bit off the beaten path, but as good a place to start as anything.

Yay lots of walls. Anyway regarding Korlash-Yates, when I first read that post by MoI I didn't see him as saying he was scum there AND here. I thought he was using the word "also" in the sense that he was adding to the statement, as in "also, I was scum there". He just also in a weird place. Also, scumslips have to be viable. I don't think any scum would have made that sort of scumslip, just like no scum would say "in my scum role PM".

In summary, I can see why Yates thinks it's a slip but honestly it's too blatant to be an actual slip, more likely a weird grammatical error. I didn't see the reference to the affc game but that could be another viable explanation.

VOTE: Yates

1. When I wrote my script post I thought I had included all pertinent information. As stated, I was unaware that "affc" [acronym? typo?] referred to a game and was, therefore, disregarded as inconsequential. It wasn't until you pushed on the issue that I went back to see what this 3rd game could possibly be. NOW it makes sense that that post may have been referring to "A Feast of Crows" [though I would have abbreviated it "AFC"].
1b. You cheated. One question per numeral.
1c. Just kidding.
1d. The point of the link is that it shows where *I* saw the script starting.

2. This is a question of interpretation and semantics. Please allow me to post the whole WHOLE script going all the way back to RVS:

MoI - "I’m looking at activity for these three between the time the thread opened and when I got my role PM to find the scum busy in the QT during Pre-game. Survey says .... VOTE: Vijay"
MoI - "My vote moves from chuckle-vote to real now!"
Benmage - "MoI, did you open affc [A Feast of Crows?] with that last to confirm thing, or am I misremembering... "
MoI - "Had to check. Yup I did."
Benmage - "Can you name a town game where you opened that way?" [with an RVS vote based on confirmation order]
MoI - "Aside from this one? I have no clue."
Benmage - "If its a common enough occurrence it shouldn't be an issue."
MoI - "It’s not very common at all. In fact the only other occurance I could find was - Open 320: Tit for Tat - I was scum there also"

Even with these posts added, it doesn't change three facts: one, that he admitted to being scum when opening that way; two, "also" is not the same as "but;" and three, he was unable to point to a game where he opened as Town in this fashion. Allowing him three games, it sounds to me like he is saying, "I was scum in those games too" meaning those games in addition to this one. If he meant that he was scum in those games but not this one I would expect him to say "I found Tit for Tat, also, I was scum in those so no, I can't link to a game where I was Town and opened like that."

Here's the thing though, korlash, let's say I adopt your assertion that he just meant in those two games and not this one [due to some inexplicable mistake in grammar], it's still a self incrimination. He stated of his own volition that he was scum in BOTH games in which he opened like this, the logical conclusion being that he can not point to a game in which he was TOWN and opened in a similar fashion [per Benmage's original question]. So he essentially confirmed that this is a scum tell for his meta. If you want to argue that "self incrimination" is different from a "slip," fine. Have at it. You still end up in the same place; with MoI calling himself scum.

3. Your opinion on MoI doesn't matter to me and bears no value on your inquiries towards me . Your opinion on MoI become important later after a flip. My point was that you were expending a lot of energy on defending tangential points that deflect off of him while not actually defending him or stating your opinion on him. As you know, this is a buddy tell. If you are going to get involved, I'd like to know the reason you feel the need to do it. This directly leads into...

4. Why commit to anything? This game is played based on the content of your posts. Some critical components of that content are interactions with players, opinions expressed, reads, how reads evolve, etc. At least, that's how *I* read players. Making your opinion on a player or a statement known holds you to it. If MoI is lynched and flips Town, I fully expect to have to answer for that. If I just ask random questions without voting or stating opinions while casually casting suspicion and dispersions, how is THAT Town activity. Yes. I am saying that you are casually casting suspicion and dispersions against numerous players [not just myself] without taking a hard line on anything. For me? THAT is a scum tell.

↑ vijay2vasandani wrote:VOTE: Yates

So you see where my post made sense but you don't like the conclusion and I must, therefore, be scum?



I must ruminate on this for a moment.



Please allow me to respond thusly:


The good news is that Korlash won't be lonely tonight. He found someone in love with his e-peen.

Yeah I'm in love with Korlash, but that's neither here nor there.

I think you misunderstood me there. I said I can see why you would think that way but it's too blatant. Also can be read as a purposeful attempt to misunderstand what MoI wrote.

↑ vijay2vasandani wrote:I said I can see why you would think that way but it's too blatant.

That's why it's called a "slip."

Also, Pot, as Kettle I would like to tell you it's ok if you just want to admit that it's a delayed OMGUS from this nonsense:

↑ Yates wrote:

↑ vijay2vasandani wrote:The slip was that the title says "when the laughter died" ergo non-funny comedians are scum. Just a thought.

That's a serious stretch. For one thing, comedy is subjective. Is Gallagher funny? What about Carrot Top? While it would be funny if the scum was comprised of the Pope and Dick Cheney, I don't think you can jump to this conclusion until there is a scum flip.

X's and O's.