Mini 1353 - Dr. Who Mafia - The End of Time (Game Over)

[Korlash]

Why on earth is Korlash being all IC-mode? That said, he appreciates DGB, and I do love a man who can enjoy a woman for what she is even if she has a time head.

DGB and me are soul mates... *drifts off into memories* good times...

I know I've drifted off into a bit of... yeah IC mode is a good description. But I have a reason... which I've already hinted at... More on that later...

What is your opinion of T-Bone?

[GreyICE]

Read on triangle, T-Bone and Korlash, please.

Are you motherfucking kidding me

TIERCE ARE YOU SCUM TIERCE

READ ON KORLASH

KORLASH

WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN

Triangle's 5 posts are wishy-washy stuff, generally bad, but 5 posts etc. He should be on radar screens.

T-Bone #82 is garbage, T-Bone unvotes Greenknight when greenknight has started to gain momentum (hmmmm), T-Bone crap votes Korlash


Are you working on something here, Tierce?

But seriously, Korlash?

[Tierce]

But seriously, Korlash?

Someone has to, I'm not reading through the walls.


I have an impending deadline elsewhere--will get back to you on T-Bone, Korlash, that was a general catch-up and I need ISOs before going further.

[GreyICE]

Full disclosure: I'm not either

But like 90% he's town and I'm not touching him day 1

[Korlash]

But I maded those walls especially for you. ;_;

Seriously though, when did 200 word count become walls? Boy you lot these days sure lead such sheltered lives. If four posts in a row take up a combined total of 12 inches of screen length between them it's apparently a battle o' walls that no one can be buggarded to read....

Leave it to the internet to define skilled at a game of posting information being able to have the least amount of information in your posts... :\

I have an impending deadline elsewhere--will get back to you on T-Bone, Korlash, that was a general catch-up and I need ISOs before going further.

... Okay... Holding you to this....

[Korlash]

But like 90% he's town and I'm not touching him day 1

That's what she sa- oh... I made myself sad... ;_;

[Tierce]

Full disclosure: I'm not either

But like 90% he's town and I'm not touching him day 1

That's good enough for me. I just want you to stop being dodgy and apparently ignoring mostly everyone.


Korlash, I'll read them--but I want to read them while not skimming several hours after midnight, it's too much info to grok all at once. My day was hell on an emotional level and I'm trying to get stuff done without imploding, because I did owe this thread a catch-up. More thorough work will wait until I've rested and relaxed some.

[greenknight]

Korlash, you're reading way too much into T-bone's #82. His explanation that he voted to pressure me for an explanation and unvoted when he didn't find my response scummy makes sense to me at face value. And since he gets my explanation, commenting on triangle's immediately preceding #81 which didn't get it is natural enough. There's no insinuation of triangle being scum there (it's a bit odd that he refers to it as an attack later as it doesn't really look like one.)

Dude, don't tell me I'm 'reading into something' too much, and then end by saying something I was actually talking about (or trying to get T-Bone to talk about) is something worth looking into. It's whack posting that makes no sense and suggests you have no idea what you're talking about.

1) The explanation makes sense to you 'at face value'? Don't tell me I'm reading too deep into it when you just admit you barely looked at it at all. You not looking into it deeper, is actually MORE reason for me to do it since you aren't 'pulling your weight'. (And this is just an 'illustrated example'. I do not mean to accuse you of anything nor imply anything regarding you 'not working', although technically... It's kinda spot on...) And you can't say I'm looking 'too deep' into soemthing if you haven't looked deep into it to begin with. That is literally accusing me of something you have no way of knowing anything about.

Obviously I have read T-bone's posts, since I was quoting post numbers. By "face value" I simply mean that I find the explanation is plausible, not that I skimmed. I also read your posts after #127 to see if you had answer the question, and missed #101 somewhere earlier along the timeline. Sorry. Anyway let's get to the main point:

A few things bothered me about your vote/unvote. For starters, you say Green's thing was the only thing that stood out to you in this early phase, yet you ran away from the vote after one single post. Not only that, but you 180 and seem to chastise the wagon you were just on. And on top of that, you seem to be in turn defending Greenknight himself. So the only thing that you thought worth commenting on in the early phase, you completely 180 on immediately... and you don't even have a strong belief in what green said because you say you disagree with him.

At this point the game had only just left RVS; there really isn't a lot that stands out. He sees my post as potentially suspicious, pressure votes me to get an explanation, and unvotes because he is satisfied with the explanation. I don't see why, if he is town, he'd want to leave his vote on me. He doesn't have any other leads, so he unvotes. Now arguably, it's lazy to unvote instead of moving immediately to someone else, but I don't think that is a scum tell because town often uses unvote to say "I don't suspect X anymore."

Also, since you believe I am town, why do you think that T-bone would feel the need to hop off my wagon immediately as scum? To avoid being on a potential mislynch wagon? There's no reason to suppose he would be singled out amongst everyone else who voted for me. To gain townpoints with me? Maybe, but I hardly look like the most useful player to gain townpoints with when half the town is calling my reasoning bad or scummy at the time! On the other hand, it would be easy for scum to just sit on the wagon and let triangle and others continue to attack me.

So I believe this unvote to be more likely to be coming from town reasoning than scum.

I agree that T-bone should explain his stance on triangle.

[kortul]

@Acosmist - answering your 186, you got it wrong. The meaning was that for us to analyze reactions the correct results require knowing alignment. I took a look at my answer again, your interpretation would be possible without last sentence in that post.

@greenknight - can you tell your current read on GreyICE?

@Korlash - well, your posts are not walls yet for me, but close enough. Reading them from kindle hurts, i usually skim and reread from computer.

[Starbuck]

Hey guys, I'll be catching up later tonight after all the 4th of July festivities. Right now, I'm heading out with my nieces to Wild Adventures in Georgia.

[GreyICE]

Full disclosure: I'm not either

But like 90% he's town and I'm not touching him day 1

That's good enough for me. I just want you to stop being dodgy and apparently ignoring mostly everyone.


Korlash, I'll read them--but I want to read them while not skimming several hours after midnight, it's too much info to grok all at once. My day was hell on an emotional level and I'm trying to get stuff done without imploding, because I did owe this thread a catch-up. More thorough work will wait until I've rested and relaxed some.

Not ignoring them, just ignoring them

They're not important.

I have my town reads I have my scum reads, we're ready to rock.

[Korlash]

At this point the game had only just left RVS; there really isn't a lot that stands out. He sees my post as potentially suspicious, pressure votes me to get an explanation, and unvotes because he is satisfied with the explanation. I don't see why, if he is town, he'd want to leave his vote on me. He doesn't have any other leads, so he unvotes. Now arguably, it's lazy to unvote instead of moving immediately to someone else, but I don't think that is a scum tell because town often uses unvote to say "I don't suspect X anymore."

No, I'd say you are missing the main fucking reason his unvote is so scummy but it appears, technically, you aren't. You don't get that you aren't though, so... stop it.

Also, since you believe I am town, why do you think that T-bone would feel the need to hop off my wagon immediately as scum? To avoid being on a potential mislynch wagon? There's no reason to suppose he would be singled out amongst everyone else who voted for me. To gain townpoints with me? Maybe, but I hardly look like the most useful player to gain townpoints with when half the town is calling my reasoning bad or scummy at the time! On the other hand, it would be easy for scum to just sit on the wagon and let triangle and others continue to attack me.

Being singled out doesn't mean shit. Three days from now, it's more beneficial for a scum to have hopped off an early mislynch wagon then stayed on it. You are prime mislynch stock. Not only is your wagon fast forming/growing but you seem incapable of reaching anyone voting for you. Gain townpoints with you? Why does everyone think everything people do could be about them. If you were mislynched relatively without incident, T-Bone could be looking at, in theory, town points from everyone for hopping off like he did.

And it's not easy for scum to just sit on the wagon. It's very freaking difficult. If a scum just sits on a wagon day one, come day 3, day 4, day 5... they are going to fucking die for it. I have other ideas as to why he would hop off the wagon as he does as scum but they are all theories and thus irrelevant. I'm more focused on stuff I know is really going on, like how his unvote did not come from town and his actions afterwards do not suggest town either.

So I believe this unvote to be more likely to be coming from town reasoning than scum.

Believe me when I tell you that it's not.

I agree that T-bone should explain his stance on triangle.

Damn right he should.

[T-Bone]

Holiday stuff, I'll get to this later.

Happy 4th of July for those who celebrate it!

[greenknight]

And it's not easy for scum to just sit on the wagon. It's very freaking difficult. If a scum just sits on a wagon day one, come day 3, day 4, day 5... they are going to fucking die for it.

Wait... Since when does being on a day 1 mislynch wagon make anyone a guaranteed lynch later?

I'm not ignoring the rest of your post, but I think it would be best to hold off on further discussion there until T-bone speaks for himself.

[CryMeARiver]

Happy 4th to everyone! Just got my ND roomate assignment but I'm pretty much free up until my V/LA next week after today.

[kortul]

Green, what about my question?

And happy independence day for those who celebrate it.

[greenknight]

@greenknight - can you tell your current read on GreyICE?

Suspicious. On the one hand, I believe Zang and Jason's statements that he is playing according to normal meta. However, I still view Grey's reluctance to explain his reads until others have taken positions as anti-town. For example: the question of my alignment has been the most divisive thing in the game so far, and his unexplained read is that I was scum while my wagon was growing - and now that the wagon has stalled out I might be town and triangle, who voted me, is suspicious. Very convenient if he's scum. At least he's started posting actual content now.

[Korlash]

Wait... Since when does being on a day 1 mislynch wagon make anyone a guaranteed lynch later?

I'm not ignoring the rest of your post, but I think it would be best to hold off on further discussion there until T-bone speaks for himself.

When scum are on a mislynch and "JUST SITTING THERE" as you said, come later in the game that will come back to haunt them. Nothing is a 'guaranteed' anything, but I'd bet on my theory over yours being closer to accurate.

[GreyICE]

@greenknight - can you tell your current read on GreyICE?

Suspicious. On the one hand, I believe Zang and Jason's statements that he is playing according to normal meta. However, I still view Grey's reluctance to explain his reads until others have taken positions as anti-town. For example: the question of my alignment has been the most divisive thing in the game so far, and his unexplained read is that I was scum while my wagon was growing - and now that the wagon has stalled out I might be town and triangle, who voted me, is suspicious. Very convenient if he's scum. At least he's started posting actual content now.

Am I anti-town
Or scum

The masses want to know

[triangle123]

Consider that people jumped on me quickly after I voted Zang and took his side, making it impossible for me to seriously pressure him. So what exactly are you arguing was my supposed scum motivation for voting Zang?

Yes, but at the time you admitted the scum tell you were using was not exactly infallible, you did not unvote. This in and of itself may or may not be scummy depending on the surrounding circumstances, but the reason it's scummy in this case is because you claimed your vote was primarily a pressure/reaction vote. So when the pressure was, as you say, gone, you continued to keep your vote on him, which shows that your vote in the first place was not genuine. It looks considerably more like you attempted to force bad reasoning into a Zang vote and are now trying to force bad reasoning into a Grey vote.

I'm particularly not a fan of Green's indecisive post 216, where he wavers on his Grey stance quite a bit. Although he did state that he finds Grey "suspicious", he countered a significant portion of his own reasoning for finding Grey scummy and did not really outline anything resembling a straightforward list of why he finds him scummy. Green, who else do you think is scum?

So... What do you find scummy about T-Bone exactly?

Well, as I've said before, one of the primary reasons I find him scummy is because of his vote and unvote of Green. I also disliked his rather contrived case on Korlash, as well as his oversimplification and trivialization of the case on Green in order to defend him.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Vote Count 1.6 - As of post 220

GreyICE (2) - Greenknight, jasonT1981
Greenknight (4) - Acosmist, triangle123, Zang, Starbuck
Korlash (1) -T-Bone
jasont1981 (3) - Tierce, GreyICE, Iecerint
T-Bone (2) - kortul, Korlash

Not Voting (1) - CryMeARiver

The Current deadline is July 17, 2012 at 10:00 am EDT. Countdown is (expired on 2012-07-17 10:00:00).

With 13 active votes - 7 are required to lynch.

Activity Check - All currently good.

[jasonT1981]

@greenknight - can you tell your current read on GreyICE?

Suspicious. On the one hand, I believe Zang and Jason's statements that he is playing according to normal meta. However, I still view Grey's reluctance to explain his reads until others have taken positions as anti-town. For example: the question of my alignment has been the most divisive thing in the game so far, and his unexplained read is that I was scum while my wagon was growing - and now that the wagon has stalled out I might be town and triangle, who voted me, is suspicious. Very convenient if he's scum. At least he's started posting actual content now.

Am I anti-town
Or scum

The masses want to know

you are ALWAYS anti-town with how you play.

[GreyICE]

So are you Haylen or Delta Jason?

[jasonT1981]

You were not saying that in Team Mafia

[jasonT1981]

Urgh

UNVOTE:

My vote was more out of complete frustration with GrayICE and his playstyle. However, yes it was short sighted of me as he always does this and is a null tell on him despite it being anti-town.

I want to look closer at Starbuck though.