Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:15 am
You missed the bit where he usually tunnels in on someone who ends up being town.
You missed the bit where he usually tunnels in on someone who ends up being town.
Page 9 of 60
You missed the bit where he usually tunnels in on someone who ends up being town.
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:07 am
First of all that comment was directed at snake plisken, not me. Secondly - I did to.
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:14 am
↑ PranaDevil wrote:↑ ThAdmiral wrote:↑ PranaDevil wrote:Whether you "disagree" or not makes no odds. A vig is put into a set-up to WEAKEN town, because it's rare a vig will hit scum over town.
I'm interested to see where you learned this, because I've always felt the opposite, and as far as I can tell from a mafia design standpoint, I believe my stance is the generally accepted one.
Here, as far as I'm aware. As I say, vigs are swingy, but tend to hit town more than scum, thus based on that likelihood you have to take that into account when balancing the game. If you are balancing and assume the vig will take out more scum than town, you need to about double the size of the scum group (so in 24 player game, instead of say... 5 or 6 scum, you'd wind up needing more like 10, just to make up for the vig nailing them all). Even if you assume they'll hit half scum, and half town, you need to account for that and so the scum group increases, and a poor vig would lead to the scum running over town very quickly. That means you have to look at possibilities such as the vig hitting town, the vig hitting scum, the vig being lynched/nk'd early etc. for the balance... the chance of the vig hitting town (due to probability in the set-up) mean the town needs the increase in players more than scum. Remove a vig and... hey look, more town players doing scum hunting, and less players wiping out others.
Sure, a vig is useful to remove terrible players, or players that are confusing the game, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they will do what we expect them to do, nor be useful in doing it.
So yeah, balance with more town to prevent the vig wiping them out alongside the scum, as it's less likely for a vig to hit correct, let alone correct with all shots.
As I said I think you're wrong, but this is for the mafia theory forum.
↑ PranaDevil wrote:↑ ThAdmiral wrote:↑ PranaDevil wrote:so what else does it take to prove he's a lying scum?
As I asked before: tell me why you think a scum aligned player would fake claim vig? Unless they know there is no vig in the game, they're basically signing their own death sentence.
I explained that earlier. I'm not explaining it again at 1:45am... go read my ISO.
As far as I can tell from your iso you think inte was claiming vig to avoid being lynched. You fail to mention he wouldn't even have be in the discussion for today's lynch if he hadn't claimed vig in the first place.
You also fail to take in to account the fact that if he was scum he wouldn't know if there was a vig or not (unless he had some sort of bizarre information from the mod role), and therefore ran the risk of having himself be an easy kill night 1 by a real vig if there happened to be one.
↑ PranaDevil wrote:↑ ThAdmiral wrote:↑ PranaDevil wrote:Not what he said, and you are instantly brought to the top list of suspects for attempting to claim that's what he said.
I thought I was already there, lol.
In any case it might not beexactlywhat he said but he seems to think that anyone who doesn't comment on those two people are scum. He still hasn't explained why that is.
That's still not what he said at all. He was commenting on the fact Snake made no mention of them. He never even said that made SNAKE scum, let alone anyone else. You were just blatantly twisting what Nexus said to make something out of nothing.
He said I was suspicious for not mentioning them (in fact he called it a "classic scum move"), and he was clearly implying, to my eyes, that snake was too.
Check his iso - posts 7 and 8 - they are literally one after the other.
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:17 am
↑ WrathChild wrote:
Nope, it wasn't Inte claiming vig, it was inte claiming vig then backing off when he discovered it was a bad idea. If you can't see the difference between what Pidgey did and what Inte did, that explains why you don't think you contradicted yourself about Snake.
Pidgey did something that any scum with half a brain (yes I'll give Pidgey that much credit) would KNOW to create heavy scrutiny on their action. Scum would not welcome that. This is town pants on head crazy.
Inte did something that he did NOT know would create heavy scrutiny on himself for. As soon as that did occur, he backed up because he did not intend on it unfolding as it did. This is a scum panty-crap.
Your defense of Inte is noted.
Yes, but you still haven't explained why he would have claimed vig in the first place as scum. To my mind no scum with half a brain (as you say) would risk fake claiming vig on day 1.
The simple answer is yes.
There are some examples where it is not the case (i.e. odd and even night vigs, a couple of 1 shot vigs), but by and large you will not see two regular town vigs in the same game.
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:31 am
@The Admiral: A scum claiming vig can make kills with out repercussions as long as it is a justifiable kill to town.
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:38 am
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:56 am
205 is a stretch but I do continue to question the TOWN motivation for claiming Vig.
As ThAd pointed out - you are just setting yourself up to be shot N1. That doesn't make sense as Town OR Scum.
@Inte - so I guess my question remains; WTF? What were you thinking?
As ThAd pointed out - you are just setting yourself up to be shot N1. That doesn't make sense as Town OR Scum.
@Inte - so I guess my question remains; WTF? What were you thinking?
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:41 am
Well he won't get shot if he's scum now would he? Unless there were more than one group of scum.
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:53 am
↑ WrathChild wrote:
Since, I'm on a "I don't like Inte" spree, I'll also point out this gem. Way set up and excuse a quick mislynch.
go ahead and grasp at more straws
cases based on character are utter shit
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:40 am
Checking in. Will read all 9 pages, but anyone have anything special they want to point out?
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:40 am
↑ Kublai Khan wrote:Sorry I haven't posted yet. My computer is down for the nextfew days and I'm phone posting.
I read through the threadthough and pigdey is scummy. With no sample role pm, he sounds like newb-scum trying to figure out how to later fakeclaim.
Inte's play is fucking horrible. But I don't see scum motivation for it.
VOTE: pigdey
Unvote.
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:03 am
Um, what? People are voting pidgey because they are accusing him of rolefishing. What refusal are you talking about here?
↑ David Xanatos wrote:Something minor that I picked up on my shiny new screen (:wub:)
And my reasoning for the FoS was moderately simple. I went onto Pidgey's active topics list, picked one at random (Can't say which one, as there's a few ongoing), and looked at his posts. There was far, far fewer "fucking"s around. by a factor of 4, much less aggression, and the overall feel I got from him in that game was Town. Compared to the way he's been acting here, I felt it warranted a further look. I have since looked through a few more of his games and haven't found anything that has, to my mind, addressed the discrepancy.
VOTE: Pidgey
A good game to look at, to my mind, to show the difference is the Experimental Role Mafia game, he was Town there and despite being lynched/having a cop falsely claim a result on him, his level of aggression/swearing was nothing compared to what's being shown here.
I agree with Prana, the "claim" part of this post is a good point that DavidX picked up. I will look further into pidgey, and he isnt obvtown to me anymore. I dont agree with the swearing part really, I would need to go back and look at ERM again, but the way pidgey is posting is very similar to how he did in ERM, the way he flew off the handle at every little thing.
↑ CJMiller wrote:↑ Internet Stranger wrote:Votes all over the place and lots of posturing and grandstanding. Not worth for me to get involved in all this RVS style cockfighting at the moment.
If it's not worth it for you to get involved, you shouldn't have joined in the first place.
UNVOTE: Pidgey
Clothesline: Internet Stranger
This helps solidify my scumread on CJMiller. He unvotes pidgey who he jumped on for shit reasons and who's wagon has been called out by numerous people for being shit, then jumps on IS after the post above him noticed that IS has made one post in the game with the reasoning that "he shouldnt have joined" the game if he wasnt going to play it. Seriously, there is far more scummy things happening than only making one post. How about doing a bit of scumhunting, eh?
↑ Elmo TeH AzN wrote:Have either of you played with IS before?
And Raw 1000 was a great watch. Mae Young's son Lulz
↑ Elmo TeH AzN wrote:↑ PMysterious wrote:↑ Elmo TeH AzN wrote:Have either of you played with IS before?
And Raw 1000 was a great watch. Mae Young's son Lulz
Um, no. I haven't played with IS before.
This is what I've seen of him as well
Aaaand elmo continues to avoid scumhunting. Moar elmo votes plox.
↑ pidgey wrote:Claim is always used to mean Safe Claim
Are you really, really, REALLY FUCKING SERIOUS?
Are we playing an RPG? Should I call it my job class? When you ask someone to tell you their information, what do you ask them exactly? Do you ask them to, you know....CLAAAAAAIIIIIMM?
Especially loved how you had to give an example of how in that one game, it one time happened, that the one player turned out to be a scum.
"I got this asshole as my claim" is different from "I got this asshole as my character". I agree with DavidX and Prana here, this is suspect.
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:09 am
↑ pappums rat wrote:↑ Elmo TeH AzN wrote:Also I know my vote on Snake is shit. I've read games of his and Im just having some fun right now.
UNVOTE: Snake
So you know your vote on Snake was shit and were "just having some fun" yet there are people in this game who are actually trying to get Snake lynched for policy reasons. To me this looks like you were piling onto a mostly serious wagon with a serious vote (you echo others who are trying to get him lynched based on his playstyle) and now are backtracking saying you were "just having some fun"? Yeah, Im calling bullshit on that. Which games of his did you read?
↑ pappums rat wrote:RVS is over Elmo. Do you really not have anything to comment on that is happening in this game?
LOL at inte's #81.
#85-87- guys, inte isnt a vig, he was just bullshitting in that post. Lets not mire this game in talk about what was obviously just a bullshit throwaway comment. I also dont think we should talk about the PGO claim at this point, let the game play itself out.
I do Im just lazy. Im with pidgey though. Why not claim the flavor. As a wrestling fan I want to know. Im going to guess who it is since this is the "Attutde Era" Inb4Pillman.
Also inte your posts are crap. And fake claiming and retracting later. Yeah not flying
VOTE: inte
Here's some fluff where you soft-defend pidgey (who's wagon is obviously obvshit) and then you put a terrible vote down on inte. inte's posts are crap, but crap does not equal scum and you have provided no reasoning for why inte's crap posting is scum motivated. inte was obviously dicking around with his vig claim, why in the hell would you put that as a reason for him being scum?
↑ pappums rat wrote:↑ Elmo TeH AzN wrote:The snake wagon wasn't that serious. Was he ever in any threat of being lynched?
Uh, yeah, I think the Snake wagon actually was that serious, at least for a few people who dont seem to like Snake all that much. Policy lynches are rare but they do occasionally happen, and it looked like you were jumping on to an easy wagon. And I see you avoided the main part of why I continue to vote you, which is that your reasoning for voting Snake changed (initially you said it was because you dont like his play, then you said you were "just having fun"). And you still havent linked to the games you read of his that you mentioned.
I am just going to leave these here and point back to this post if anyone asks me for my case on elmo. He has refused to answer to any of the points I have made against him and if you run through his ISO you will see exactly 0 scumhunting going on. And he still has not pointed out which games he was referring to when he said he didnt like how Snake played in them.
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:14 am
↑ pappums rat wrote:
Um, what? People are voting pidgey because they are accusing him of rolefishing. What refusal are you talking about here?
initially it was just a bandwagon
then, when i refused to give up any more information. the way he reacted to something so trivial was suspicious to say the least
i'm quite comfortable saying that it wasn't scummy now, though
more Cockslaps on CJMiller
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:15 am
Yeah, this is a sample of pidgey using the word "fuck" in ERM, so DavidX's point there is invalid. pidgey does indeed use the fuck word a lot when he is being pressured.
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:35 am
i have to reiterate almost all cases based on character are piles of shit
this includes "meta"
this includes "meta"
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:11 am
↑ David Xanatos wrote:A good game to look at, to my mind, to show the difference is the Experimental Role Mafia game, he was Town there and despite being lynched/having a cop falsely claim a result on him, his level of aggression/swearing was nothing compared to what's being shown here.
There's my words regarding ERM.
↑ David Xanatos wrote:I went onto Pidgey's active topics list, picked one at random (Can't say which one, as there's a few ongoing), and looked at his posts.There was far, far fewer "fucking"s around. by a factor of 4, much less aggression, and the overall feel I got from him in that game was Town.
And there's the area I presume you're referring to.
Please stop twisting my words/stances to suit your own ends.
If pidgey flips Scum, Pappums is rather high on my list as a buddy due to that.
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:25 am
So far my list of those suspect are
Prana, DavidX, Yates, Iam
I'm a little confused about Nero, is he a hydra or player? And is he the turkey Gobbler or a different one?
@IS- why so quiet?
Prana, DavidX, Yates, Iam
Vote: Prana
I'm a little confused about Nero, is he a hydra or player? And is he the turkey Gobbler or a different one?
@IS- why so quiet?
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:36 am
↑ WrathChild wrote:@The Admiral: A scum claiming vig can make kills with out repercussions as long as it is a justifiable kill to town.
"Hey guys, there's like only one kill - guess the mafia are choosing not to use theirs!"
Also - this situation would be great. The mafia wouldn't be able to kill who they wanted, they would have to kill people they could justify, therefore not any claimed pro town roles for example.
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:19 pm
↑ David Xanatos wrote:↑ David Xanatos wrote:A good game to look at, to my mind, to show the difference is the Experimental Role Mafia game, he was Town there and despite being lynched/having a cop falsely claim a result on him, his level of aggression/swearing was nothing compared to what's being shown here.
There's my words regarding ERM.
↑ David Xanatos wrote:I went onto Pidgey's active topics list, picked one at random (Can't say which one, as there's a few ongoing), and looked at his posts.There was far, far fewer "fucking"s around. by a factor of 4, much less aggression, and the overall feel I got from him in that game was Town.
And there's the area I presume you're referring to.
Please stop twisting my words/stances to suit your own ends.
If pidgey flips Scum, Pappums is rather high on my list as a buddy due to that.
Take a look at the situation that pidgey was in during that gambit in ERM and then look at the situation in this game. In both he was/is recieving a lot of undue pressure, and is reacting in the exact same way. And quit with the "your twisting my words" bullshit, the core of my defense of pidgey is the same. And you choosing ongoing games at random to select your sample from is shit, the circumstances in those games may be very different from the circumstances in ERM and this game. Why you would use ONGOING GAMES where you dont even know his alignment in the first place is beyond me.
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:21 pm
↑ PeregrineV wrote:So far my list of those suspect are
Prana, DavidX, Yates, Iam
Vote: Prana
I'm a little confused about Nero, is he a hydra or player? And is he the turkey Gobbler or a different one?
@IS- why so quiet?
Why are you voting Prana?
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:47 pm
UNVOTE:
VOTE: pappums rat
For the love of God, don't metagame, you assclown.
VOTE: pappums rat
For the love of God, don't metagame, you assclown.
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:50 pm
Hates the above slot.
-The head formally known as Nero Cain
-The head formally known as Nero Cain
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:07 pm
I don't follow you. How is WrathChild's post a case based on character?
...or is the second sentence completely unrelated to the first?
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:22 pm
There was a lot of negative feeling around him when you hoped on all happy. It all adds up.
CJ is an excellent example of a player that should be vig'ed.
Lance or IaI are great lynches for today.
To be clear this is a hydra with myself (sotty) and Tripple D
~Sotty