The Wire, Season 1 - Final Credits!

[Benmage]

This reads like it's meant to be an objection to my post .

Far from it. In fact the out of box thinking+genuine analyzing really resonates as town with me. Which helps with my mini-paranoia. I would imagine scum at this juncture in the game taking either a back seat (as they clearly couldn't be such a vocal voice/leader now...and expect to make it to endgame)..or I could see them tunneling on some relatively unlikely lynch candidate.

-The only beef I had was the two scum claim. I agree, very likely one scum there. BT is my best town read amongst the remaining three... BT did have some peculiar behavior that I'm blanking on atm, but went over with kuribo. His slot still read town from Vifam/his early play. So I'll have to go back to the section I was looking at before, and see if its strong enough to change my read.

Let me take a look at TML.

No. Bubbles is going to be the only one working with the cops for S1.

Really? I wouldn't be surprised to see, for instance, Wallace or Shardene as Traitors, myself. They both start the season working for the Barksdale organization. They both end up agreeing to work with the Police and reveal important information about the organization (although, yes, Wallace has second thoughts).

Could be a second scum team made up of Omar's crew, too.

~ Pless

I had totally forgotten about Shardene playing such an informant role. Multiple traitors still seems hard to swallow. I know Faraday can be creative, especially when it comes to scum makeups... Still. I doubt it. Wallace gets capped too early.

[Benmage]

I don't know if TML consented... but his last few posts read defeatist.

[Benmage]

There's over 8 days to deadline. No need for a hasty rush. I'd like the chance to give TML's iso a proper review, and I've been a bit busy. Plus TML is overdue a post and I'm curious what he says.

SO cheah. Hangtight.

[Benmage]

be atot easier if i wasn't on muscle relaxants

Im staring at the oxy right now.

Been busy, irl beatup from rugby mafia tomorrow.

[Benmage]

Ughh I think playing rugby below 40 got me sick. Fighting something so I still havent done anything.

[Benmage]

I didn't think about an eavesdropped neighborhood.

Where did this begin?

Scum have access to Kuribo's neighborhood?

What was Kuribo's neighborhood called... Sorry if this has recently been mentioned, just glanced at the thread from work. FML I feel like crap.

[Benmage]

Don't see this as any kind of town tell. Why wouldn't scum-BT want to discredit votes on his partners wagon? Especially a tracker?

It seems like a high risk, low reward move for scum at that moment. TML wasn't voting for absta then, and wasn't being pushed.

What do you think of Benmage's unwillingness to vote for Absta?

Where was I unwilling to vote abstas? I don't even recall an abstas wagon happening...

[Benmage]

Alright, well I definitely remember catching scum TGAH. I was pretty proud because it was classic scumtells galore.

[Benmage]

There were many wagons... definitely not an unwillingness to vote TGAH. I was pushing Peta's pretty hard D1. TGAH was one I was willing to vote for, and eventually did... I don't see how my relations to TGAH could find me scummy, unless there's a new theory going around that scum new the traitors... and I what?? Sought to gain towncred with a late vote?

[Benmage]

How large of a scumteam are people brainstorming with this multiple traitor theory?
(Personally I think this side tangent is likely some scum day distraction.. but I have nothing to go on this other then gut, as I havent read yet)
Uhmmm... as I was saying, we have Lester and Bubbles dead. Kima and Mcnulty dealt with Bubbles. Kima moreso if I am correct. And Lester dealt with Shardene. So is popular opinion in the multi-traitor theory that its 2-1/1? Plus Omar SK?

[Benmage]

^Actually its probably not scum theory, but more town going into the crazy theory deep end of the pool. I don't doubt scum probably talking it up tho.

[Benmage]

@CDB

why are you reading camn?

And why are you just spontaneously posting abstract quotes from her iso?

[Benmage]

Don't see this as any kind of town tell. Why wouldn't scum-BT want to discredit votes on his partners wagon? Especially a tracker?

It seems like a high risk, low reward move for scum at that moment. TML wasn't voting for absta then, and wasn't being pushed.

What do you think of Benmage's unwillingness to vote for Absta?

Where was I unwilling to vote abstas? I don't even recall an abstas wagon happening...

I'm thinking of your post 415, but also the fact that you never voted him, and the fact that he's the sort of player who I think you would have been fine with lynching even if you had a town read on him.

I've been pretty sure that Camn is full of shit all game, so I can't help but be sympathetic to CDB at the moment.

That is an odd complaint considering there was never much plausibility with an abstas lynch and again I was pursuing petapan.

[Benmage]

ben also at one point decided I was town, and then decided he wanted me lynched just because he can't read me for shit:

Stfu kuribo you are horrrendous I ought to just let you die.

Unfortunately, I have never seen scum selfvote. Never. (atleast from memory which I'm very confident with)

So fuck you.

Unvote vote BT

this over SAD.

I won't be able to play with you... especially with the wine you yourself present.

I'm hoping, (anddoubting) this exit is reminiscent of mine in Battlemages Bastard game.

unvote vote kuribo

Like, he literally says he's hoping I'm scum, but doubting it, but wants me to take rope just for his own peace of mind.

^I have no issue with the above line.

But you miss in those quotes you telling me that you'd fully do what you did as scum.

[Benmage]

Yeah kuribo... not wanting to decipher the wine was why I didn't care to see you hang even if I was then leaning town. And sue me for still believing your slot was scum. Petapan literally lied in thread and then said he was joking.... I'm am mindfucked-baffled still.

[Benmage]

Bare with me guys.. FUcking RL has been draining, and being sick makes concentrating and reading a pain. I'm trying to forcemyself back as I think we have a little over 3 days to deadline. Bare with me if I repeat a few things....

Regarding the Kise flip: The information was simply to clarify a number of reads I had on people, for example I've already mentioned that it has solidified my read on you.

Kise didn't flip? SO how does his non-flip change/solidify your read on TML/equinox???

@ALL: If plezzie and kuribo are town, also given the flips, what is your interpretation of yesterday's wagons. This really isn't that complex.

I'm not sure what you're trying to suggest: Final Votecount

First glance I'd say there's scum in Jason/TML/You..but I remember yesterday vote switching was crazy, and I'm not going to dissect it right now. Can you just explain what you're hinting at?

Nost seems far more concerned with justifying his behaviour and his votes than he is with actually hunting for scum.

Seems a recurring theme:

pick one side of that fence

and I'll defend against it.

A lot easier to defend oneself and find logical flaws in attackers then to do attacking.

You might be noticing a trend in the way TML played yesterday

Can you start explaining things instead of the letting the 'reader' try and find your conclusion... It doesn't seem like you need us to reach the epiphany ourselves... so just save some time and explain what "trend" I should have noticed. Because I don't see it.

The wagons yesterday were frankly very revealing

This is actually a prime example of the superficial analysis I was complaining about above. Based on this post I can tell you

who

Nost suspects, but I can't tell you

why

. Nost doesn't seem to have talked about camn much before, but I don't know what it is that makes him suspect her now. Both camn and TML were on several wagons yesterday -- is that suspicious? If scum do "one of two things", and one of those things is to tunnel on a single player while ignoring other cases, why doesn't your "analysis" lead you to suspect somebody like DV?

I agree with this superficial statements. Nost says scum will remain constant on a wagon, yet
in my interpretation it looks like his issue with TML is that he wagon jumped?
--He goes through the wagons, and says XXX for this one YYY for this one.. and repeats usually with TML/ or camn.. at the end he points to the trend... but I don’t know why the fuck he pulls them off the wagons and I don’t know what trend I’m suppose to notice, unless it’s the trend of being on the wagons... which doesn’t make sense with his point of scum remaining constant on a wagon. If he wants to say they’re guilty of attempting easy wagoning... I would disagree, that that occurred.

Equinox, are you saying you find Zdenek potentially scummy? If so can you please link me a game with a scum aligned friendly neighbor, I could do with a source or two to see how scum friendly neighbors play and I can't find an example of it happening.

In a nonbastard game this is impossible.

[Benmage]

Let me just catch up with these few pages, I'm still pretty adamant against a BT lynch. (I'll rebreakdown why)

There's something I wanted to go back to.. I'll get too.

@Kuribo/anyone on BT really if you do have bullets of the biggest complaints it'll help as I go back.

[Benmage]

The thing is... scumbenmage doesn't buddy. Scum Benmage NEEDS NO BUDDIES RAWR! I'm a little out of it.

[Benmage]

Definitely okay with a Nost lynch.

[Benmage]

Equinox, are you saying you find Zdenek potentially scummy? If so can you please link me a game with a scum aligned friendly neighbor, I could do with a source or two to see how scum friendly neighbors play and I can't find an example of it happening.

That's not what I said. I'm looking at Zdenek not because I'm suspicious of him -- actually I think he's town -- but because I'm interested in potential reasons for why he is alive, since I am also looking into potential reasons for why scum killed the people they did.

I'll take a look at the rest in a bit, working on something that's due in a couple of hours.

I'm not very surprised Zdenek wasn't killed. Yes he's modconfirmed town. But his play was lackluster, and I'm sure scum wanted to kill either A) Stronger town players B) search for Powerroles. C) Those attacking them. D) Combo.

I'm assuming D. I just glanced back at Sotty's iso... A Nost Kill on Sotty (not necessarily nost performing the kill) Makes sense. Scum killed Shadoweh who was heavily against Abstas. Scum killed Sotty, who attacked Nost. Sotty fits every criteria, seems an easy connection.

There's another issue with Benmage that's probably worth pointing out. Earlier, he's voting Kuribo and thinks that he's scum, Kuribo self-votes and Benmage immediately unvotes saying that he's never seen scum do that. This reads more like a textbook response to an event than to something that he actually thought about as town. Benmage has played with Kuribo before, and I think that he'd have realized that Kuribo would self-vote as scum (personally, I think that there is little that I would put beyond Kuribo-scum). Moreover, Benmage has been in a game where he's seen scum day-vig another scum, so his lack of suspicion here is disconcerting.

You're lukcy you're confirmed town Zed.. I don't get where your drawing your conclusions from.

-Yes I found kuribos slot scummy. Its annoying that kuribo keeps writing off peta sucking, as peta always sucking. I don't have experience with peta. So excuses of peta trolling falls flat. Peta lied in thread, and I caught him in it. And that was just one of my concerns with the slot. I've come around to kuribo being town. His over-the-top self meta analyzing + wine reads like something I'd do. I self meta all the fucking time, and I do so to an extreme as town. Its been a begrudging alignment switch because I probably was a little confirmation bias not just because I found the slot scummy, but also that people were instantly writing him off as town just due to what felt like an activity surge. I just had AngryPidigeon replace into a scumslot in ADWD and I misread him as town because of an activity surge. So perhaps I was overly cautious to avoid a repeating here. I digress as there are now several people I'd rather see flip before kuribo.

-That said Zden, you can check my meta. I've never had scum self-vote. I see town do it from time to time, its SHITTTY play but it's OFTEN town. Kuribo wine-ing after it, and just being kuribo is why I still didn't care to see him hang. I think I laughed about it in ScummiesWinvinational QT. DGB selfvotes and I had to stay quite because I always see town do it. Not only that but for a long time I used a personal meta/precedent of almost like r

ed text of truth

where if I selfvoted it confirmed me as town. As I have only selfvoted as town. I no longer use this strategy after a MD dicsussion where I came to the conclusion it was essentially cheating. So anyways this wasn't some automated response... just how I handle selfvotes. Again, they're always scorned. See Kise telling Kuribo to replace out. And while they're frowned upon... they're 999/1000 times town being fed-up.

-The dayvig thing? How is that relevant? Scum do anything to win? Okay sure, doesn't mean we throw OcsRzr out the window and pretend there's a cult in this game too. Anyways, glad you got the mod confirmed role

Jason was a strong scum read for us day one, and he really hasn't done anything to read as town. The only thing that clears him is his gambit and the push that TGAH gave to him.

Hi there, I happen to be one of those people that made clear that there are absta-Jason connections that clear Jason, multiple times. I know you're being lazy with your scumread on me but this is ridiculous.

Why is abstas clearing Jason again? Because he calls him town here: post 285 ??

Abstas seems open to scum jason here:

Post #351 by SAD makes some sense. I was town-reading Jason for his gambit but this changed my mind.

So maybe this isn't relevant. Are we still trying to plug absta's actions into the meta plessie did?

Yeah so I really don’t see how abstas connections concretely clears jason.

Anyways

unvote vote Nost

much more plausible than CDB. WHOM I will still explain why scum, hopefully before today ends, just to have the case out there.

[Benmage]

Picking a fight with him.. You called Kise town. He had Kise as scum, and started suspecting you. Wanting to eliminate a future dissenter... not very farfetched.

[Benmage]

Not exactly following BT. Breakdown for me why it makes Jason town. I'm congested as fuck and concentration hurts.

[Benmage]

1. OOps I meant Pappums HarryPotter/MGS
2. Doesn't negate my statement.
3. Any scum self-vote outside of a hammer is extremely surprising.

[Benmage]

Oh and actually with point 2, on why I don't think it's automated was the reference to DGB and scummieswinvintational. If memory serves me correct, I acted uncharacteristic when faced with the self-vote there.

[Benmage]

Actually, tempted to take Benmage out of that lynch pool since he looks really town and I've had a strong townread on him all game based off his own individual play but I'm a paranoid baby and some of his interactions w

ith absta were kinda bad from memory.

I should probably reread that too now that I think about it.

?

Hm.
I am also entertaining the idea of Benmage scum. I know I read him as town. I know this. But that's what he would want me to think.

Hm.

He could be.

Exhibit A. No one knew that absta was death fodder, until he actually was death fodder. If it is possible that the scum team is small,

then early bussing is unlikely

.

Thats a good point. ^This whole post is legit. Makes me reconsider BT.

What is your point Ben?
I have selfvoted as scum before.

Kuribo gets a townread for WHY he was selfvoting, not the fact that he did.

I was educating zd... Uhm yeah I know it's always about the why.. ANd the 'why's always read exasperated town. (Then again like I said outside of a selfhammer or maybe rvs nonsense I only see town selfvote)... So I say 'selfvote'... but I mean that encompassing how the self vote happened.

I don't think I have the ability in me to change a Nost read:post 2563 ...this was a great post. Nost. After you do look at wagons, a keynote is how someone joins a wagon.

Intended for Cerulean and anyone keeping up with these arguments.

k yeah, Gonna be honest, I don't see the big back and forth thing proving anything about alignment. It looks like a disagreement, nothing more, but if one of you guys catch an inconsistent slip, you could bold it.

Yes, spolier next time please.

[Benmage]

Has Equinox claimed already? Don't want anybody to hammer without a claim.

No, I have not.

Why you're L-1.

Consider this intent.

[Benmage]

I'm here. I'm at work. I can hammer whenever. The claim is nothing special. Equinox not voting BT is the most troubling. Thats why I'm more content to see him hang. If I make BT 6, Equinox hammers and by's himself at least one more day.

If I was town, of course I'd vote the opposing wagon. I don't care what he MIGHT think the other read is. Him not voting is a scumclaim to me.

[Benmage]

I don't know what I did 2 years ago...

I'm at work. I'll hammer before I go home if noone has 6pm EST.

[Benmage]

Hey at least this time the thread will be locked so Jason won't miss anything. During his weekend v/la.

Am I being to optimistic to think he can contribute tomorrow?

[Benmage]

Hold.

[Benmage]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ad0hL0bRVWY
In the name of Faraday...of House Mod. First of his name. King of the PO-lice, Lord of the Barksdale Organization, and Protector of this thread. I, Ben, of the House Mage, Lord of the Hammer, and Warden of this Town sentence you to death.

----------------[]

unvote vote Equinox

(no good wire videos to quote with out way too much... plus fuck I still love asoif!)

[Benmage]

Hmm. Nice shot camn, uhmm

vote jason

outside of him or mayyyybe CDB i can't see myself voting much elsewhere.

[Benmage]

What PRs are all out there? Alive/flipped.... someone just buller about to play dota.

[Benmage]

bullet

[Benmage]

And clearly camns the vig

[Benmage]

On with the show than. Cerulean has something to say, so let's hear it. I imagine popcorn after.

[Benmage]

Those 3 are the crux.

I also laughed when he said he contributed a lot... He looked at his wagon and the votes on it... He's done nothing but stay a float this game.

[Benmage]

I'm Perry, and I'm a VT. I'd say Jason next... but that could be forever. So CDB claim.

[Benmage]

Mod

can we player request a prod on Jason?

[Benmage]

Sorry Jay.. given your contribution this game... thats why.

ANywhose you didn't pick next. Is Plessie in the neighborhood? Neighboorhoods up, aye?

[Benmage]

Been busy rl, have a crazy obamacare meeting to deal with at 130 today.. after that I should finally have free time again!

[Benmage]

I'll have freetime, to get my act together... feeling the epiphany setting in.

[Benmage]

anti proddodge.. know I suck

ended up moving this weekeend, with rugby stpatty etc mafia had a backburner.

[Benmage]

First of all, sorry for my abysmal play of late.

Life has been overwhelming, yada yada.

If we have to lynch me today, so be it. I understand.

I haven't read much since my last post... some obviously, but nothing to really answer any questions for myself if there are any.

Vote CDB

We the playerlist left, this is a must scum in my book.

His read on Jason. White Knighting to the max. I'm sorry, but noone could be that adamant that Jason would flip town, without knowing it.
-His early tentative play. Scum coasting.
-His "active splurge"... was just him looking at his wagons votes... There's minimal work there at best.

*I can't speak much of late because I haven't been there.

Obviously I know I'm town, so in addition I'll add his easy attack on me. Check my userprofile... I haven't been on the site, period.

So yeah. Me or him. Me then him, fine. I could spend more time pulling strips from his iso, but at this point....why...

[Benmage]

Assuming it more so, since I haven't been around to defend myself.

Why am I scum, bullet for me.

[Benmage]

FUCK U CDB

unvote vote Benmage

DO YOU THINK I WOULD READ IT IF I FUCKING COULD FUCK YOU

(the player, not the person mith)

How fucking simple it would be for you to rebullet to help me.

But no, You're a fucking dick. I WOULD FUCKING READ IT IF I COULD YOU DUMBASS...

fuck you, this game, fuck it... lynch me then CDB fuck u

[Benmage]

Maybe I acted unfavorably. It is a petpeeve of mine when asking simple tasks, and being told to go look them up, as bullshit. Was it not CDB, who kept saying how much he was pressing, Jason D1.. saying look it up, and then I did and there was nothing. Yeah, point. MY POINT is, yes it is important for people to do their own legwork... But look at the person making the request. Clearly if I had the ability to I would.

Anyways I pm'd the mod about my personal life affecting mafia, and apologized for the last post. I don't see a need to mention it here, as it isn't game relevant.

If you think that was an orchestrated use of personal meta... ..

unvote vote CDB

scum is scum. Me first, or him whichever, lynch this scumbag.

[Benmage]

Benmage, how much were you trying to look town with your self-vote post?

>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<< this much.

How retarded of a question is this?

[Benmage]

Hey guys, I don't think the mod put it in... but I'm in South Africa, until April 1st (monday).... needless to say my time will be next to non existent.

I feel like there's gotta be something admist in one of the PR claims... I'm looking at DV, and I'm trying NOT to be paranoid about kuribo

[Benmage]

Oh yeah.. go slow for me pleaseeee

[Benmage]

Tammy, why are you dismissing DV?

[Benmage]

HOld the phone... I think DV should claim if he has the 1-Shot BG or not(or atleast in the neighborhood). I'll explain why after he answers....

[Benmage]

Benmage, I get "real life" issues, whatever, but holy shit, your play in this game has been a fucking joke, too.

Kuribo. You are so full of shit its ridiculous. You haven't done anything beneficial to this game whatsoever. You just yell and scream and try to bully like a fucking child. You have no idea what RL I've been doing so go fuck yourself. Also my game has not been shit. I've been on top of this game from the getgo, save yesterday.

Spam your crap elsewhere, what scum did you lynch with your awesome whistleblowing?

Point is. You are atrocious at this game.

[Benmage]

Anyone in the neighborhood...

DV should be shotless... anyone worth 2 cents should know this. I hope he's claimed as much to keep his claim going. But I think it is fake. I think the manner in which he wanted to claim in the neighborhood, given the information I have sounded scummy. Like someone said before, he felt is fakeclaim was solid and wanted to ride it. I refuse to believe no scum is fake claiming. Scum love to get intricate with their roles.

I don't see where his play could possibly be town confirming. I don't see his role as town confirming (even the fakeclaim he has, which is likely just that a fakeclaim)

If by chance DV still has his 1-SHOT BG, which how could a BG be more than 1-shot, you can't use a BG again if it works lololol so clearly he must have used it, because if he didn't on someone even like Zdenek... well then G-G scum confirmed.

So yeah, this is who I am most confident given any pool of possible remaining scum.

unvote vote Zdenek

Kuribo, I may have called you derp, and useless... but I've stopped considering you scum for sometime. No matter which way I think about DV must be scum.

[Benmage]

^Back to why he clearly must have used.. He knows scum have daytalk due to his role?!??!?!? He would want to die??!?!? Shit I'd probably ask myself to be lynched D1, or at least after he saw what looked like a vig/SK claim it to die.

For realz.

[Benmage]

Goddamn i am in another world...

unvote vote DV

[Benmage]

^While accurate.. and I don't get how she voted me yesterday, nor why she isn't continuing today (I guess it isn't popular).. and that stains her for sure..

I just at the moment still have a tough time swallowing the interaction with abstas as fake... ergjsfjagdjs I guess it was so early in the game...zzzz I'm going to mind explode!

Why is DV so town for you neighborhood??

[Benmage]

Still on phone. Grrr.

Camn - serious question. Are you reading the game?

Ben - why did you use the can't read inexperience well excuse for absta when you played with a scum absta in 20th century?

Ben

Because I can't read inexperienced... It's my one flaw.. that's why I hate inexperienced players and have never IC'd..duh?? As for 20th century I didn't remember him from there. I haven't looked back at it.. but I doubt it would have mattered much anyways with his alignment??? Does it?

[Benmage]

Also FUCK U ALL ... I proposed tonights.. mewahahahhah thats why I am in South Africa, and she said YESSS!!!!! (im a little tipsy)

[Benmage]

Still on phone. Grrr.

Camn - serious question. Are you reading the game?

Ben - why did you use the can't read inexperience well excuse for absta when you played with a scum absta in 20th century?

Ben

Because I can't read inexperienced... It's my one flaw.. that's why I hate inexperienced players and have never IC'd..duh?? As for 20th century I didn't remember him from there. I haven't looked back at it.. but I doubt it would have mattered much anyways with his alignment??? Does it?

First off...congratulations.

Next, yes, it matters. You had no problem pushing a scum read on petapan, who incidentally has a start date that is later than absta's, and has about the same number of posts. He says he's lost, you call that lying scum. Absta says he's lost, you say you can't read that because you have trouble reading the inexperienced. But, with absta, you just finished a game in which he was scum just two months before this game started. So, you giving absta a pass because he's "inexperienced" doesn't make sense when you've played in a game in which he won as scum.

TY.

Obviously it is a little tough to recall from the beginning of the game. But clearly petapan was a much more active player so he was in my mind a lot more. When I looked up petapan's games it was a spurr of the moment thing because I probably had excess freetime... Do I really need to find quotes of me calling people inexperienced and not checking their post history? Come now, It is a common theme for me. And again, it was D1.. one can only have so many tangents... abstas was a non entity, I'm sure everyone outside of camn could be accused of distancing abstas.

[Benmage]

That DV quote is blatantly out of context. Even I can see that and I'm an idiot.

I'm still a bit confused about what DV meant tho. An explanation would be helpful from him.

Pless was accusing him of making up his role. He was defending himself about it, and being sarcastic.

And Plessie was NK'd. He wasn't steamrolling DV, but given whats left, DV having to goto endgame, his claim, Plessie already having suspicions of him + Being pretty damn pro-town all game.

Kuribo you GASP! This is who I'd NK.... Who would DV NK if he was scum. Point.

[Benmage]

I don't really care about him, Cerulean already asked me. All good.

Anyway dead thread can rejoice now.

vote Ben

Negative, you're better than that.

[Benmage]

I haven't lost my rocker yet.. Kise, try and hold onto yours.

Whose the final scum with me?? (hint hint, anyway you put it.. DV is scum)

[Benmage]

Ooops

Unvote vote DV

[Benmage]

I'd lynch Jason only on the premise that I'd rather lose to any of you over him.

But I just can't grasp scum not caring this much. It is beyond my scope of mafia....

So yeah.. Lynch Jason if only because losing to him would be a crime against humanity... but otherwise it just feels like pushing a panic button.

[Benmage]

So yeah.. Lynch Jason if only because losing to him would be a crime against humanity... but otherwise it just feels like pushing a panic button.

My point is that:

1) Tomorrow may be LYLO

2) there's a good chance he's scum

3) if he's town, do we want him at LYLO regardless?

4) We shoulda dealt with his bullshit earlier, but we didn't, so here we are.

You're right. Today Jason, or not at all.

[Benmage]

Same question to you. Who is the final scum with dv?

And if dv is scum, why did he claim daytalk enabler? The claim only makes sense if he's a traitor, not mafia. And if you believe there are just two scum left, you don't believe in the extra traitor.

I didn't really consider a second traitor.. but I imagine 2 scum/2traitors as plausible.

Anyways confident in yourself, and if I lose to kuribo so be it, I'll simply PL him for the shit wine dung he put forth this game. I'd lean camn these days... I don't get her flip on me, the heavy pushing when it was convenient, and then the non-existent stance today.

[Benmage]

@Kise, yes I was pushing you because you did nothing after replacing in.

The deadline was approaching, therefore pushing your wagon, (I'm just assuming this all off memory) as the lead was logical. There are cases where claims can be stalled early game to see how they play-out even with shit play. Moreover it is the natural course of the game on any lynch... Wagon - Claim - Hammer... that's how it goes. I was trying to move the process along, ty for showing my town nature.

I wasn't sold by your doc claim at the time given the gamestate than... maybe my tunnelmode was a little strong than too... pretty standard.

[Benmage]

I'll be gone now till I land back in NY monday morning.

[Benmage]

unvote vote Jason

Enough is enough.. havent read everything, I'll get to it later.

But again, if I lose to any of you for play, claim, wine etc etc I'll be okay with it. Jason.... lurking... fuck no!

Please black list him whatever his alignment turns out to be.

[Benmage]

Woops, meant to post yesterday.. its been overwhelming returning to NY engaged. I'll try and post tonight.

[Benmage]

Still have a few days till deadline, I'll fix my groove. Overwhelming return to NY.

[Benmage]

Ben, I'm still not sure about your answer to my last question. Why would you throw out that I had time for a claim if my claim didn't matter, especially considering there were other viable lynches/VT claims? If doc isn't the end all be all, what is?

I know you're not....

You got all up in arms with this post:

@Ben, see I'm not buying that. WHen you look at it, you specifically say you're voting because there's time for a claim. That has nothing to do with "deadline! Gotta lynch now no matter what!" You said I had time to claim as in I had time to be judged FOR my claim. Now with you saying the claim didn't matter, as my play is what condemned me, STINKS.

Everyone's thoughts on this please.

Let get THIS shit DONE

But noone came running to this pitchforked mob of yours, and I guess your steam is settling. I don't understand your issue whatsoever.

Let me ask you this:
You think anytime anyone claims a PowerRole, you should let them live, and completely ignore any and all past behavior?

[Benmage]

Ill try to catchup tonight.

[Benmage]

vote shaft

where did I avoid you?

[Benmage]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4849200

The answer to your question is situational. Sometimes yes sometimes no.

I can't help stubbornness.

[Benmage]

^This isn't my first time answering the r'tard question, you keep pretending means something.

[Benmage]

Let me break down what Kise's own answer means... Power roles situationally change lynches.... Hence the reason to claim. Hence why we had kise claim way back when. In Kise's "situation"... his claim did not change my stance.

Its fucking braindead simple, kise has the answer.. has had myself answer this anyways... keeps repeating himself in some idiocy circle just to say that I'm.. dodging.

Yeessh.. Did I not just get scum lynched? Scum who hasn't been lynched since D1. Scum that Kise wanted desperately alive.... The zomg Jason is town.

***WHICH BTW WOWWW Everyone should perma-blacklist Jason... like the site straight up should.

Back to reality... Kise couldn't be the more obvious scum. Expensive doc, with a limited town shot makes a ton of sense. Ty for trying.

Can we win yet?

------------[]

[Benmage]

^Limited town shot meaning vig.

[Benmage]

Shaft diaf... I'm done speaking to you.

[Benmage]

Shaft diaf... I'm done speaking to you.

[Benmage]

@all Kise is absurd, please lynch. post 3091

[Benmage]

^Thanks lol.. I thought I was losing my mind.. because he's literally 180'ing my behavior and accusing me of what he's doing...

[Benmage]

Well.. I think this is pretty easy for myself.

DV pretending to need to do review, is funny keeping his options open. Errr I'm getting ahead of myself.

Camn is town. Wishywashyness whatever. I can't accept the idea that camn and abstas orchestrated that heated exchange, even with camn mocking the idea that she could behave that way as scum... (I say the same shit as town).

So I'm very confident camn is town. If I am wrong here so be it... I could live with losing to her. (Again, I don't think thats the case)

DV is scum for multiple reasoning, but couple glaring. I'm not going to list a ton of reasons for you (camn) as to why I am town... nor am I going to make a huge case against DV.... but here are some key notes.
-Faraday games are very fakeclaiming friendly. In every single game I have been in scum have creative claims. Faraday I imagine encourages this by both giving safeclaims, and allowing players to ask for created/specific safeclaims.
--I can't imagine scum not fakeclaiming this game. It just happens in everyone one, and I don't believe DV has been honest. Fuck I down right know so at this point.. (but I digress, its hard communicating when I know I'm town and DV simply must be scum) but continuing......
Glaring point 1)*******DV was super energetic when he was in the neighborhood and wanted to claim. (Safeclaim? Clever fakeclaim, etc etc) When I believe ActionDan calls him out on this... we get what? A deer in headlight response, with him admitting he'd backtrack (no other possible answer).
Glaring point 2) Kise/Shaft self hammers. When has anyone ever seen town selfhammer? I haven't... You know what I've seen a lot of? Scum self Hammers.... I did a little dance when I saw that. With Faraday having the thread closed for a bit, I thought he was organizing endgame notes.

You know who knew the game wasn't over:

Oh, and I was going to read over everyone too.

After a selfhammer... are u kidding me?? 1 scum left, he knew the game wasn't over, and made this comment... because he totally fell off the map. And who can blame him with a partner like Jason, I get the defeatism.

Thats about that camn... don't drop the ball tis in your court *pass*

Vote DV

Also why am I alive, and camn alive? Well camn has for a few days now shown interest in lynching me. Not for nothing camn, I'd have killed you a lonnnnng time ago

[Benmage]

You were defeated before that when you were coasting...

Plessie suspected you, oh and plessie died early.

You have.. and you're squirming.

[Benmage]

Well it feels like you're about to drop the ball camn.

Actually in the world that I'm scum, and DV is town... I probably kill DV. Kuribo had me as town, and I'm pretty sure suspected you.

But kuribo is a wildcard, I don't get how you can't see DV killing him, and setting you up to lynch me. You've been suspecting of me for sometime now, no?

Why have you even been suspicious of me??

Lets see what DV has done, said the neighborhood has me town (false/see 1st dead plessie).. outside of that?? Lurked(defeatist)... backtracked anytime he's caught with his pants, and only defense is..

but I'm town

... I guess scumhunting is a thing of the past aye camn... it's only fitting I retire in a game with a loss to a despicable team of DV/Jason... it'll help keep me retired I imagine.

Tho I am still a little disappointed in you camn... Would you as scum have kept me to endgame? Point.
-*nanana hands over ears setup speculation* is comical.. How many faraday games you play in?? Every single one has scumfakeclaims, but this one everyones a cool cookie.... except for DV did fakeclaim, er I mean we're believing his claim .

[Benmage]

You don't even mention, that DV KNEW the game wasn't over after Kise selfhammers.. like ar eyou fucking kidding me..

Just hammer me camn.

[Benmage]

Oh yeah, and town deff has BP Doc BG.... Not like Faraday is a creative mod who enjoys diversity or anything like that...

[Benmage]

Day 4, Votecount 7

Benmage (4) - Deasvail, camn, ChannelDeliBird, Benmage

Not voting (5) :

Cerulean, Plessiezarus, JasonT1981, kuribo, Shaft

• With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
  
• Deadline is on 25th of March at 3:40am GMT
  
• Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-03-24 23:40:28)
  
• No one is V/la.

Aw, we were so close too.

Funny considering I'm self voting.

Day 5, Votecount 16

JasonT1981 (4) - camn, Benmage, kuribo, Cerulean

Benmage (1) - Shaft
camn (1) - JasonT1981

Not voting (1) :

Deasvail

• With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.
  
• Deadline is on 9th of April at 11:59am GMT
  
• Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-04-09 19:59:28)
  

WHat happened with this one ^^?? Or the entire Jason was being rung up you were nowhere to be found.

[Benmage]

DV had a pretty simple plan it looks like... see which of camn/benmage vote the other and hammer... look at his opening slow play.

I'm sorry but from a town perspective, camn couldn't have been scum, and I think he was hoping for some remaining animosity.

[Benmage]

Hey camn, take gander actually at the jason vs me interaction this game, and call us a team... puhlease.

[Benmage]

DO THE RIGHT THING

Losing to you/Jason would be the worst loss in mafia history.

Stop speaking.

[Benmage]

Kuribo not dying would have been pretty suspect if I was scum and Kuribo was the most town as well, so that's partly right Camn.

Do you think kuribo would have turned on you if it was You/Me/Kuribo in Lylo?

PEdit: He could have. He wouldn't have done it straight away, but he may have come around to it. He actually mentioned something about it in the neighbourhood (not completely seriously though). I also tend to avoid killing people who suspect me and love going for the 'he would've taken this person to LYLO' WIFOM as scum, so I probably would have done the safe thing and just killed Kuribo.

HOW THE FUCK IS THIS NOT A SCUM CLAIM......

CAMN/DV/Kuribo lylo without me = DV IS SCUM?!?!?!!??!?!

[Benmage]

Benmage- what is this? Am I missing something?

You mean besides the several glaring points I pointed out??

How about this:

DV KNEW the game wasn't over after Kise selfhammers

DV KNEW the game wasn't over after Kise selfhammers

DV KNEW the game wasn't over after Kise selfhammers

DV KNEW the game wasn't over after Kise selfhammers

DV KNEW the game wasn't over after Kise selfhammers

[Benmage]

The 3397 ego comment, is the icing on the cake.

[Benmage]

incomingmassiveamountsofwine

For what it's worth, had I been scum I surely would have entered more timidly... Even the almighty scumBenmage, gets anxious. Which scum isn't anxious come lylo.... I would have slow played and kept my options up just like DV did... it is simply the more logical scum play.

Period.

/endwine

[Benmage]

The fact that you believe it to be a scummy thing to do is a good explanation for you avoiding it.

You give me a lot of credit... That I had the foresight to recognize not only myself, but scum in lylo in general. That is to have the common trait of being 'anxious'... and that I would attempt to appear aggressive, and essentially go 'all in'... to look abnormal, and therefore town? (Am I following correctly thus far) I do this, also fully knowing that tactically slow playing and seeing others sentiment could be a safer/more option route (i.e. if we pretend you're town.. you came in all herr urr you're both town).

Then are we also giving me the foresight to make this claim that scum slow play their opener some X amount of posts later, hoping also that the person I went 'all in' on, acted in this manner...

Geeeze

I appreciate the link to that game tho... TY for illustrating a naturally acting townBenmage in lylo... Oh look damn near identical to this one.

Camn try out this math problem: (--)*(--)+(--)+([]) =

------[]

[Benmage]

Why haven't we won yet?

[Benmage]

Wow...

I'm sorry for my subpar performance. RL, unbelievable. GOOD.. Obviously getting engaged etc etc.. but I couldn't enjoy this game the way I wanted, nor do it the justice it deserved.

[Benmage]

I was a universal town read for most of the beginning of the game... I didn't even mind the odd setup(wow are traitors pointless), the fact that replacements ruin games (see my ability to lynch petapan vs kuribo... FML)... nor jason being the worlds worst person in mafia history. I meant everyword... blacklist him please.

I would usually relish the challenge to overcome losing 50% of my team by D2.. see scummieswinvintational... But that week leading up to my 8day trip to South Africa.. the trip itself and the return.. It was really the week before where my town status wavered and it was due to RL... bumming me out even more as I couldn't do anything, forcing content wouldn't have helped... I like to manipulate the game... I can't just do catch-up posts...

[Benmage]

Don't blame yourself camn... lylo is hard.

[Benmage]

This game was very internally conflicting with Jason as a partner.. and PTW, and just plainly not performing the way I wished I could've... obviously there were good moments, D1-3... the end etc.. but the mid game gaps... ughhh...

I'm not even going to go to the point of zero team to help direct the game...

[Benmage]

I'm taking an undetermined hiatus because of this game, because it became a chore, because I didn't have the time I wished I had to devote to it.. and it became self deprecating/depressing.

[Benmage]

I'm sorry camn

[Benmage]

I'd say yes... but even taking one game at a time.. I don't feel right if I pull a scum role, and there's a chance I not post ("content") for 5 days... it isn't fair....

[Benmage]

I'm sure I'll return when things settle.. my new position at work has me nutsly busy, 9+ hours a day, after school events open houses etc.. (admin in school is bussssy)... (I moved during that week before my trip too)... Looking to buy a house.. now planning a wedding... RL of simply working out/rugby/ friends.

When things calm down, we'll see.. maybe come the fall.

[Benmage]

YOU BETTER TAKE THAT HIATUS, BECAUSE I AM GRUDGEKILLING YOU FOREVER

I'll note to NK you n1 should this happen

[Benmage]

I wish abstas didnt die as soon as he did... we had some promise I think.

I'd link the scumqt, but that might be overkill before faraday comes in.

[Benmage]

Make it a double... Jason gets to record this as a win...

[Benmage]

Thanks Faraday...

So were you rooting for scum this game?

Explain to me the point of the traitor role?

[Benmage]

Also, what happened with Jason that was so horrible a lot of people are calling for him to be blacklisted?

He did nothing all game but lurk, and go v/la... pathetic for scum.

You need people to CONTRIBUTE to the game to read them... that's the point of this game.. lurking is pathetic.

[Benmage]

I think the manner of some of the town roles, made them very OBV town roles.. could be a bias stand point..

But

expensive

doc seems obv town. The Neighbor, all the protective roles... if you're looking at a massclaim, there's not a lot of room imo for scum creativity.

[Benmage]

The traitor role, I lynch/bus and get zero credit.

The lyncher is now someone I can't force a mislynch on.. Thats a benefit to the town.

SCUM QT

The kills were tactically done, by yours truly. Zach died early as a foreshadow of a slot difficult to lynch down the road. Someone who I was worried could turn it on at any time. I also thought the slow play might have been PR related.

I had to keep Plessie and Cerulean alive for sometime because killing them and me being alive would raise questions .. that was atleast when I was still having fun.

I think I did play a solid game (overall I guess)... when I had the time.. I just felt I could've been even better had I not been so crazed with RL.

[Benmage]

If you look at massclaim you guys have the 1-shot dayblock. Also neighbour and JOAT and bulletproof are 3/7 roles that don't give any indication of alignment, here. The friendly neighbour, and the vig were confirmable and the doc too. But DV's role might have helped get him lynched.

Kuribo made his slot unlynchable, you can't play his role for that. He was very town.

Thats my beef with replacements ... we don't need to go into that... I force myself at petapan, and end up having to stick to that slot, attacking kuribo because noone respects "MAFIA" anymore.

-Kuribo made himself obv town.. outside of that his scumhunting wasn't spectacular.. he admits this, so cheah.

[Benmage]

The deadqt is interesting.

Yes I purposely broke my "I only town selfvote schtik"... This epiphany occurred in a MD discussion where I came to the conclusion it was essentially cheating. What better game to break it in, no? I didn't even mention my past meta.. so go me fools.

[Benmage]

And ty for the congratulations... It is a very exciting time in my life!!

I'm sorry if that spilled into too much mafia.. I tried to keep most out, hence pming Faraday instead of posting at times.. But sometimes you gotta say, why you're not more involved in a game. I think I'd do this regardless of alignment (probably more so as town )

[Benmage]

@Plessie 331, of the deadqt is situationally true.

Plessie states that it can almost be a hindrance for town to have such early success, because it can lead to a substantial amount mislynches, and therefore depression. Yes this accurate. But equally so I have seen scum throw in the towel when getting smashed so early as well.

[Benmage]

The deadqt is interesting.

Yes I purposely broke my "I only town selfvote schtik"... This epiphany occurred in a MD discussion where I came to the conclusion it was essentially cheating. What better game to break it in, no? I didn't even mention my past meta.. so go me fools.

But wouldn't breaking it for one game still be cheating?
Breaking it means never doing it again

I have no qualm with self voting... I historically was using it to prove myself town.. Now neither I nor anyone can make that argument.. (formyself)

[Benmage]

^Town self hammering.. that's a bird of another feather...

[Benmage]

Even so Zach... I imagined wagoning you very difficult, to near impossible.. I figured your death would actually make Jason look good.. And I thought there a chance for you to be a PR.

@Faraday

why did you make it so we couldn't jail ourselves?

[Benmage]

I thought I read Plessie and Cerulean quite well in regards to their feelings toward myself.. and killed them at optimal times.

[Benmage]

Have I mentioned yet how much I hate Hydras?

And how much I hate them being put into a neighborhood..

COmeon.. 6 PEOPLE I can't manipulate... for shame.

[Benmage]

There'll be a season 2 eventually, although I'm running an asoiaf upick first.

You make sure you pm me that.

I still argue that a lyncher on a weak slot.. i.e. nost, is better for scum.

I have to plan out NK v potential lynches.. Thats how I operate.. losing nost hurt. (kurbio replacing petapan HURT)

[Benmage]

+ ben didn't bring up his meta so.

PTW
be a badass
be honorable

That's why I can't accept lurking as a tactic... Although I had moments of lacking content, I obviously had plenty of content throughout the game.. I more beatup myself, because I like to be the ringleader manipulator scum... I couldn't keep it up with the level of skill in the game/the speed/my RL.

[Benmage]

NSFW

serves you right for thinking I was scum. I wanted a townie alliance with you and shadoweh.

do you have any fucking idea how much screaming i had to do to redeem your slot

A lot! That slot was setup to be lynched!

[Benmage]

Hey, can I see the Expensive Doc night choices... there was a moment I was debating no killing in hopes Kise was protecting me.... I wanna see if the nights were lined up.

[Benmage]

Well that's a significant reason that helped me win scummieswinvintational.. No killed as the final scum the night I was tracked.... So huzzah.

--Shadow was killed N1, because I like to throw people for a loop... I like people unexpected to receive a doc/watcher (obv correct as cerulean was protected)... and again, I needed the vets alive, as I was alive.
-Also shadow was heavily anti abstas... and I didn't expect abstas to be NK'd.