The Wire, Season 1 - Final Credits!

[camn]

So whats with the self vote? That's not a town move.
And who is scum?
And what about kuribo's points against you?

[camn]

ok, this is retarded. Maybe all roads can lead to the same place.

DeasVail- I have a question for you.
Please think long and hard if you want to answer it, and how you want to answer, and answer (or not) as you see fit.

Can you protect Kuribo from death tonight? Yes/No.

[camn]

No, it assumes YOU are town, kuribo. Everyone else dies.

[camn]

OK. I can give this a shot, I think. (Plus I discovered a hole in my plan)

DV- do you have anything to add?

[camn]

/yawn.

[camn]

A) Plezzie was pretty much the only neighbor who made sense. That why they died before a host of PRs.
B) Why did you let kuribo die?
C) Ben please, god, convince me if you are town. I'm trying to open my mind right now.

[camn]

Also- I am inclined to do some pretty serious setup review here.
It still bothers me- DV's character claim.
I am going to look deeper, but the current flipped PRs look like this:

Bubble- an informant. Obv.
Lester- a tracker.. OBV. hes a cop
Ronnie Mo- a JOAT. Im not sure who ronnie was.. but I read he was a crew chief, had multiple felonies, etc.. obv he could do things.
Avon. Kill proof. OBV
Serling- took a bullet for the crew... has a physical tell-tale... obv.
Wee-Bey- "sentenced to life imprisonment for multiple homicides" OBV
Levy- blocks imprisonment .. OBV
Orlando- ran the strip club. It fits.

So WTF with DV's claim? Seriously?

Next I'll try and loko at actual balance.. though I'm bad at that.

DV- with you full claim? Targets and everything, if you had any?

[camn]

and that was your only opportunity, which is why kuribo is dead?

[camn]

The neighborhoods opinion is not relevant, and it is hearsay at this point.
I see your vote Ben... and I need some time to think.

[camn]

I live or die by play, not setup speculation.
DV wouldn't have killed kuribo. He would have killed Ben and used kuribo to kill me. Easy. Or killed me and said AH Ha! Camn wanted Ben dead! Both easier than this.

Ben didn't have that luxury. If he kills DV, he already knows me and kuribo lynch him. If he kills me, same deal. His only chance? Kill kuribo, and hope I can be swayed.

Sound about right, benmage?

[camn]

Also, I would have killed Kuribo as scum.

Why? Why not kill Ben? Would I have been so hard to mislynch?

[camn]

on a side note- I was just rereading ..and Ben, you ask when someone fake a hydra quicktopic....
I seem to remember it was in Adel's crazy pair of double headed games. Where every player was a hydra, and we were all in two separate, simultaneous games. I forget who did it exactly because, of course, I was killed night one. Maybe Yosarian?

[camn]

Hmm.

Kuribo and Cerulean know that I'm town

I would have killed Kuribo as scum.

Deas- whats with the dissonance here? If kuribo was really in your pocket.. like you claim... why would you have killed him?

Is it because of this?

And how you can say I feel defeated after town self-hammers and I'll be in a 3P LYLO with no conftown. That's pretty good odds for scum and I would be especially happy about it as scum, because in situations like this as scum before I've only had 1v1s so this would be really exciting.

[camn]

Kuribo not dying would have been pretty suspect if I was scum and Kuribo was the most town as well, so that's partly right Camn.

Do you think kuribo would have turned on you if it was You/Me/Kuribo in Lylo?

[camn]

I probably would have done the safe thing and just killed Kuribo.

Jesus, man.
Again, I am baffled.

Its like you have spent the entire game claiming scum. You have a scum power role. You were 'excited' that there was no conftown in LYLO, and you would have killed the one person who you CLAIM thought you were town?

Benmage- what is this? Am I missing something?

[camn]

I'm feeling convinced.

Deas- your claim sucks. your scumhunting has been inadequate. I dont think you deserve the win.

any last words?

[camn]

Do you think kuribo would have turned on you if it was You/Me/Kuribo in Lylo?

He could have. He wouldn't have done it straight away, but he may have come around to it. He actually mentioned something about it in the neighbourhood (not completely seriously though).

what Cerulean and Kuribo thought is not irrelevant.

More dissonance!

[camn]

Also, I'm really really cautious and every LYLO I've been in I've taken

ages

to vote.

Why? Did you really think >I< was scum?

[camn]

ok... im going to debate on paper here about last night.

DV-SCUM:

the kill initially didnt even make any sense coming from DV.
His partnership was pretty well established HERE IN THREAD... though I really dont know what happened in the 'hood. It seems like killing BEN would have been the move for him, because a Kuribo/DVscum seems like a slam dunk to mislynch me, right? Or killing ME, and trying to push Ben
Unless DVscum was over-respectful of my (and Ben's) defensive game in lylo, and didnt think he could push it through. Then what? Then killing kuribo, a player I had said openly was the ONLY town-read I had would make sense.. especially given my push on Benmage yesterday. It makes sense he would have thought I would just keep going for ben.

So- I can talk myself into DV scum keeping me alive.. but its hard. Keeping kuribo would have made more sense.
And then he states in thread that he would have killed kuribo as scum. sheesh.


BEN SCUM:

As stated earlier, if ben was scum he was slightly stuck here. leaving kuribo and dv alive? just as above- it seems they would team up. leaving me and kuribo alive? instant death.
So a kuribo kill is the obv benscum play. I had expressed some doubts about DV

---
now in the WIFOM spirit- did DVscum know that that was the obv Benscumplay, and play it for pure gamesmanship?

------------------
And lets talk balance:
14 town/4scum/1survivor

I think of that as 14/4 really-->survivors dont exist.

So- thats not lopsided in pure numbers. lets look at power:

VANILLA x7 (or8)
Vig (3x)
Freindly
Neighborizer (3x)
JOAT
kill-proof (1x)
Doc
?Bodyguard/daytalkenabler

vs:

Even Tracker
Rolecop (nerfed as traitor, 2x)
Goon
Goon? Bodyguard/daytalkenabler? Other, unclaimed?

hmm.




I think I might just have to go with my this rationale:

1)DV's claim is junk
2)Dvs play is not particularly respectable overall from a hunting perspective.. Whereas review of Bens game shows decent effort, and decent results across time.
3)kuribo/benmage UberBattle- fake? i read it as town/town.
4) overall balance- that is a LOT of town power, even without DV. vs what.. a tracker? Either Ben is a strong scum PR, or DV is scum
5) I dont think Ben was bussing Jason. He seemed truly reluctant, and actually surprised that Jason flipped. If I were jasons partner.. I would have bussed harder. Earlier. And better.

[camn]

Its the CHARACTER that sucks.
The role is, as previously mentioned, a role that benefits scum as well as town, and could go either way.
But wallace is a snitch. He doesn't help the guys in the strip club communicate. He snitches to the PO and gets killed.

[camn]

How does it make it less likely fake?
It just shows that the Character claim isn't well linked, flavor-wise, to the ROLE claim.
Either could be false.

I think Wallace was a fake claim, and you should have faked Vanilla Goon instead of your actual power... but you couldn't resist.

[camn]

Your lack of flavor knowledge is the whole reason your fakeclaim fails!

Ben? your thoughts?

I wish I could read the dead thread. I need guidance here.
They are probably all dying from the suspense.

[camn]

more notes to myself... for clarity of thinking.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p3587482
DV scum knew not to vote quick even in his newbie game.
He even tells a townie to unvote, just like here.

Of course Ben doesn't list his games in his wiki

SHIT.

Alright. Let the sprit of Yosarian2 guide my hand.
Kuribo- this is your fault if I'm wrong here.. My plan would have been better.

##VOTE: DEASVAIL

[camn]

Sorry guys.

BAM?

[camn]

i hate you both so much right now i could die.

[camn]

DAMN IT.

[camn]

I WAS LITERALLY TOTALLY FIXED ON LYNCHING BENMAGE UNTIL YOU SAID IT.

Also, I would have killed Kuribo as scum.

[camn]

YOU BETTER TAKE THAT HIATUS, BECAUSE I AM GRUDGEKILLING YOU FOREVER

[camn]

I'm just sorry I wasn't more town.

You weren't so bad!
I just reread you three times, and you were pretty good.

But you practically claimed scum at a couple key points. >headdesk<

Seriously, though.. I couldn't/still can't see you killing kuribo- why would you have, as scum?

[camn]

I gotta go drink.

Hate you both.

[camn]

I don't even record wins.
Jason gets to record this as dying at my hands once again

[camn]

Sorry for getting my read on you so wrong, camn, but yeah ... scumtells.

Thanks Faraday - I enjoyed playing in this game very much.

Its OK! I was intentionally trying to have mixed reads on myself.
Though I will say, the Traitor faked hydra dissonance, and both
Jason and Ben used RL excuses!

Ben, your play was fine. Don't think otherwise.
You were in a pinch in the end, and I should have lynched you, but you famine off really genuine throughout.
Of course, now you have blown a couple gimmicks- that being self voting as scum and 1v1 as scum. I'll lynch you for that now.

And thank thou, Faraday, for your modding. It was seamless. The flavor on Wallace, though...wtf?

[camn]

Ah! QT!

Thank you, Tammy.
I didn't read it all, but its true. I voted wrong.
however, my plan would have been better, because it involved lynching benmage!
but it's not worth arguing oveR. There are plenty of could-have-beens... The biggest one being we could have won instead of lynching kise. Especially lynching kise without decent discussion on the strength of the neighborhoods opague opinion. That was our worst lynch, IMO.

[camn]

Shoot.. I read more QT

you guys can all yell at me now if you like!
I know my play this game wasn't perfect, but it was intentional.
I was intentionally trying to place myself in the middle of the pack as far as peoples reads go as I wanted to live for once! I think I did my share when it comes to killing scum!
you guys are right I should have done more re reading in LYLO, but the game was just so large.... which is why I should probably stick to minis.
in my defense, I started out totally ready to lynch Ben in Lylo. DV pretty much convinced me he was scum in the last three pages of the game.
I shouldnt have fixated on the claim ad much,too . Plus, Ben did seem very genuine. Maybe I should have let them talk another couple days... But the suspense finally wore me down
maybe I will do better next time.

and I am sorry that I have convinced some of you I am egotistical! Its just a front. I'm actually sweet, and have feelings and everything! I just talk a big game


Oh and the 'tells'?
I only believe that 25%.

[camn]

I was set on Benmage! Then DV convinced me he would have played it the same as scum, and I became convinced he was taunting me!


Next time, I wont let them talk.

[camn]

I know! Shame on me.

[camn]

I too hate larges. But I loved the Wire!
It was nice meeting you, btw. I hope you weren't really mad, in your heart.