Mafiascum.net

This is going to be one of those games where I get ignored until people want to lynch me again isn't it. >_> I supose it's because I'm not sure enough to engage INDIGNANT RAGE mode. I assure you I mean every moment seriously though.

↑ Empire wrote:
Yes. That's six people. Of those six, two of them (Tammy and you) haven't really posted enough for me to get a confident read and one of them is Vi. The other three are some form of townread. I don't know what else you're expecting from me on page 6? I'm not half the man I used to be.

I know we haven't, that's why I thought it was weird that when Tierce asked, you scrambled to have some kind of read on me. Would it really have killed you to honestly say you don't know? Also, is Vi really that hard to read? (honest question because I don't think it is). Again though, you don't feel like someone who feels like he has 3-6 townie buddies to win the game with. Do you not value hard town reads?

Shadoweh wrote:Your Llamarble vote doesn't strike me as you analyzing him and finding him scum, it looked like throwing a rope at a log and hoping you can ride out the current on it. Even your questioning in the above post is weak and kind of like 'eh i just want you to talk more I guess'. It's not the voice of someone questioning their suspect.

The two are not mutually exclusive and going on fishing expeditions in the early game is perfectly fine, no? And how do you expect someone to address a suspect then? If you're talking about acting all indignant and shit, I don't really feel like acting this way.

Maybe it's because I don't have someone like Thor insulting me this game.

I expect you to treat a suspect like a suspect. Whether you're rude or polite about it, I should be able to tell you suspect them from reading what you say about them. I'm waiting for your big reads wall at this point to see what you really feel.

Pretty sure I didn't try to convince you you're scum?

I read the post wrong and saw a do instead of don't >_> Nevermind

↑ Empire wrote:(mostly tonal differences, I think he's a lot more detached and emotionless as scum).

Good catch. I've been working to fix this in my scum game lately, but that's the weakest part of it, I think.

↑ Shadoweh wrote:So you can confidentally read nearly half the playerlist but you're swimming for reads?

This question is bad because he sort of explained this already.

↑ Johhog wrote:You're both missing the point. I don't want lurking to be rewarding. I don't think you should be able to deflect suspicion simply by not answering. Now penguin_alien has posted, and as I have a stronger scum read I'm happy with changing my vote.

I saw the reasoning you gave. I don't buy it.

↑ Johhog wrote:I guess I'll dig around for meta.

meta to see if tierce is a sucker for V/LA excuses...?
also what made DV's excuse so fake to you?

↑ Llamarble wrote:Nacho posts less as scum.

this isn't true anymore, llamarble
do you really think i have trouble posting shit after white flag?

↑ Shadoweh wrote:I supose it's because I'm not sure enough to engage INDIGNANT RAGE mode.

Uh, I think you may be putting too positive a spin on it.

Empire, you were great in that game (or scum were just really bad I don't know!), but take credit where it's due. All that matters is winning, not how fast you won, and you basically made it so that town couldn't lose. (I'll feel really silly now if you're scum here)

Benmage,

↑ Empire wrote:

Benmage summed it up pretty succintly in #104

but to add onto that -- I really don't like his list of reads and the rationale behind them in #82 + #96. I think they're pretty shallow and he sometimes focuses on things that aren't alignment indicative at all. For example, Benmage "commenting on relevant things" doesn't seem like anything that would even remotely shed light on his alignment and the CTD scumread for the link within a "short thought" post gave me a wat reaction. It just reminds me of his early play in TM 2012 White Flag where he mostly just commented on meaningless things and his scumhunting came off as superficial.

Nacho, what do you think of Johhog's sudden unvote? It seems like he just wasn't paying attention, since I'm pretty sure I mentioned how I'd seen CTD massclaim before a couple of times, and I think he would maybe be more likely to pay attention as scum? Or at least put more effort into making sure what he was saying was backed up.

Anyway, I feel pretty stuck for scumreads right now (maybe Penguin, but I don't think that's anything more than gut) and I'm getting unsure about Llamarble. His response to the wagon is a lazy one in a way, which is what I expect from town (I think scum are more likely to actively counter the points against them), and although I'm worried that this is Sanjay all over again, his responses focusing on his own play and how he feels about it (e.g. 177, 179, 183) remind me of how I've responded to wagons on me-town.

I don't know though. I'll see if I can do a proper reread and pick up anything.

Argh, scum please be more scummy.

↑ Shadoweh wrote:This is going to be one of those games where I get ignored until people want to lynch me again isn't it. >_>

You've said something important?

(if it's not a vote for Llamarble then etc.)

@Wetfox: See above.

↑ DeasVail wrote:Nacho, what do you think of Johhog's sudden unvote? It seems like he just wasn't paying attention, since I'm pretty sure I mentioned how I'd seen CTD massclaim before a couple of times, and I think he would maybe be more likely to pay attention as scum? Or at least put more effort into making sure what he was saying was backed up.

Not necessarily. I tend to think that mistakes are mistakes and not really indicative of alignment. I do think that him not reading your responses while he was voting penguin for lurking follows pretty nicely with my Johhog as scum train though.

↑ DeasVail wrote:maybe Penguin, but I don't think that's anything more than gut

I don't think penguin is scum, and I think her playstyle sets off gut like crazy. She doesn't post a whole lot, meaning that people who are paranoid about lurkers freak out, and she walls pretty hard, meaning people have a larger tendency to treat her essays and skim them, meaning that they are afraid they won't be able to read her. Criticizing you for not committing enough was a fine point; picking out CES for coasting was something I expected her to do but less likely to do as scum because of no one yelling at him for it, and the Llamarble vote is also for reasoning that I can see her picking up on. Her being "eh, don't really know what's going on" and not being at all concerned about the votes on her is A+ good and not what I expected if she was scum.

Says the person posting in dogspeak? You have eyes, you're fully capable of reading what I've been saying. I don't have a read on Llamarble, and it looks like that line of questioning is already being covered.
Also I agree with Nacho about pengu triggering gut just by posting. I thought the second post was better then the first.

↑ Nachomamma8 wrote:

↑ Johhog wrote:I guess I'll dig around for meta.

meta to see if tierce is a sucker for V/LA excuses...?

...what?

What V/LA excuse are you talking about?

↑ Shadoweh wrote:I know we haven't, that's why I thought it was weird that when Tierce asked, you scrambled to have some kind of read on me. Would it really have killed you to honestly say you don't know? Also, is Vi really that hard to read? (honest question because I don't think it is). Again though, you don't feel like someone who feels like he has 3-6 townie buddies to win the game with. Do you not value hard town reads?

Well, #32 was supposed to be me saying "I don't really know but if I had a gun to my head right now, I'd say she's probably town". And yes, my experience with Vi-town is that he tends to vary between obvtown (Micro 59) to largely unreadable (Castle Zar) so he can be pretty hard to read, though there are some meta markers I've been using (see below). And of course I value hard townreads, I'm like a (diet) version of Regfan where I feel like a better "townhunter" than scumhunter, but that doesn't change the fact that it's still early and I can't exactly make miracles happen. For me to act all confident right now would be completely disingenuous and dumb posturing (and this is coming from me of all people).

~~~

Alright, so while writing this, I realized this thing was going to be way too long so I decided to break it up into two posts -- first one here will contain my (unfortunately few) townreads and the next one will contain some unfinished thoughts on some of the players that have posted thus far. If you guys need clarification or elaboration on anything, let me know.



I’ll just skip the part where I say that I’m pretty confident in my ability to read Tierce and say that she’s hitting a lot of the markers that I know of her town play (e.g., her activity level, the way she's been thinking about her reads, and her general attitude). Her early attack on Konowa in #40 for meta related reasons is something I buy from her completely and matches how I know she thinks of reads as town -- I also think Tierce-scum would have coasted on that read rather than attack for it since she has a very low opinion of her scum play and would take all the townreads on her she could get. Her sarcastic response to Benmage in #44 and her snarky responses in her back-and-forth with CES starting with #119 matches her town attitude to a T, Tierce-scum doesn’t have the self-confidence to reply to both players that way and would likely have been much more toned down. The questioning/conversation DV starting at #58 comes off as her genuinely trying to read him, no BS mafia theory or jumping to conclusions about his alignment as is the staple of Tierce-scum cases. All in all, fairly confident she's town here. For more Tierceology, read this post.

Expanding on what I brought up in #156 -- reading through his town games reinforces for me the idea that the less intense Benmage appears to be, the more likely he is to be town (Mini 1394 and #190 there being a particularly good example of town Benmage putting off reading/getting too involved in the thread for a while even after coming back from being busy) and that's the impression that I get throughout a lot of his early play. In contrast, reading through his play in Heroes of Comedy, he's a lot more aggressive (like, A LOT more, the difference is really significant), and he seemed to spend most of the time he was alive deliberately antagonizing MoI and not really giving a shit about his motivations but trying to discredit him as much as possible. I'm not getting the feeling he's doing that at all with Llamarble in this game, his questioning seems a lot more geared at trying to gauge his alignment and tonally doesn't come across as super aggressive as it did in his scum game, especially given his frustration in #194 with Llamarble not being upfront with his reasoning -- haven't read through Winvitational yet since I'm about to be hauled off to a friend's BBQ, but I'm strongly leaning town here based off what I'm seeing.

Already mentioned this before, but my experience with DV is that he tends to be a lot more image conscious as scum and a lot more concerned with "proper" town play, as town he has no qualms about throwing himself into the limelight to get reactions from people -- in light of that, his explanation for voting CTD in the early game in #63 + #64 and I think scum-DV would probably have entered the game by doing something more "typical" (for lack of a better word). Tonally, DV as town is a lot more self deprecating and very wishy washy since he seems to tend to get caught up in the many ways to interpret something and the kind of second guessing he does on Johhog and Llamarble in #161 + #204 matches that aspect of his town play to a T. Also, I generally get the sense that he's genuinely finding it hard to get reads this game (#205) but I guess I could be biased here?

[gap]

I've been taking largely a wait-and-see approach with Vi this game given that it seems far more like trolly, unreadable Vi from Castle Zar rather than obvtown Vi from Tierce's Micro. That said, I think the small summary Tierce provided in #196 is pretty accurate, but to add onto that -- scum-Vi appears to have a different mentality, is more interested in discrediting people and making them look bad (largely by taking quotes out of context -- see: Black Flag Nightless for a decent example of what I mean) and I don't get that impression this game. Weak read, though.

Another very very weak read, mostly based off her reaction to Konowa in #98 -- that kind of snarky, passive-aggressive reaction is far more likely to come from Tammy as town. Still waiting for her to come back with some :content: and :effort: so I can be more comfortable with this read but that's where I'm at right now.

↑ Nachomamma8 wrote:I saw the reasoning you gave. I don't buy it.

Uh, your problem? That is my personal policy. I play this game for fun. And lurking being rewarding detracts a lot of the fun. I think you should be rewarded for playing.

↑ Nachomamma8 wrote:meta to see if tierce is a sucker for V/LA excuses...?

Huh?

↑ Nachomamma8 wrote:also what made DV's excuse so fake to you?

Shouldn't have to explain that one. If you don't know that CrashTestDummie apparently always massclaims the whole series of posts by DeasVail looks bizarre.

These are probably the closest I've come to scumreads though these are really unfinished sketches still, so expect to see a larger concentration of waffliness here.



I looked through some of his town games and the way he's been reacting to the wagon here seems pretty similar to the way he reacted in Revolution Mafia with the whole "stop interrupting me, let me do my thing, I can't solve the game this fast" attitude. I tried comparing it to his reaction to getting wagoned as scum in TM 2012 White Flag but the circumstances were too different for me to make a call (e.g., he got lynched rather late in the game so his line of defense was too different). When I looked at his recent town game as Norlkaz, there was an almost manic attention to detail and I'm not seeing that this game at all -- his reads very much feel lazy to me. However, this could very well be a product of the fact that he replaced in rather late into the game as opposed to the early game nature of the stuff he's posted here. But then again, even in his early play in Abarat, there was still somewhat that same attention to detail (see: #58 directed at Shinori) and I think that's sorely lacking here. Looking at his play in Outwitted, he seems to toss reads from nowhere and they also come off as lazy -- this is the same impression I'm getting this game overall.

I looked through the games Tierce referenced in #40 and I think her take on them is pretty much on the money, so I don't really get how Konowa came to the conclusion that Tierce is town so easily in #28 and I'm not really sure I buy what he says in #46 + #47 -- the last game they played together was Mafia Rarefaction Segunda where he misread her when she was town and that partly led to her lynch so I would expect to see at least some sort of trepidation this game. In that context, the overconfidence of that read. The rest of his play in particular feels like disengaged sniping (ex: #65) and him impliedly being put off by Tammy's reaction in #99 is also really weird considering we all just got out of a game together (Castle Zar) where Tammy ended up flipping out at NS when he suspected her so he should know about the way Tammy-town reacts to negative attention.

I initially liked the way he came across in his early posts w.r.t. his vote on me but I'm not a fan of #189 at all, it feels like he's trying to fan the flames of the argument Shadoweh and I have been having while at the same time expressing his support for a Llamarble wagon.

My initial impression was that N wouldn't do the whole low content trolling thing as scum in this game, but #197 is weak, comes out of nowhere, and doesn't comment on any of the other major wagons that have happened this game. Him asking how many people are on the scumteam here also gives me bad vibes, considering he asked a similar type of question in NY 160 as scum, so it almost feels like he's trying to feign ignorance.

~~~

Would wager there's probably scum up there.

↑ Shadoweh wrote:Says the person posting in dogspeak? You have eyes, you're fully capable of reading what I've been saying.

I apologize; I was harsher than I intended.

That said, you would be better off pursuing Llamarble.

trolly, unreadable Vi

For a brief moment I had hoped you had typod the first word. Rice-a-RoVi - the #YOLOville treat!

EBWOP:

↑ Empire wrote:In that context, the overconfidence of that read

doesn't sit well with me at all

.

God, I am the worst editor.

↑ Johhog wrote:Huh?

bad excuses, not V/LA excuses.

My only problem with Empire is that our reads are mostly matching where they be, and that makes me somewhayt paranoid because I have revealed those reads already. (Which is part of the reason I've just been sniping reads instead of explaining them--I've seen Empire-scum sheeping me and trying to ride his buddy's lynch.) But dayum, that's content, keep it coming.

; the next couple of days should have some semblance of content, but I'm likely to drop off the map afterwards.

↑ Tierce wrote:My only problem with Empire is that our reads are mostly matching where they

should

be, and that makes me somewhayt paranoid because I have revealed those reads already. (Which is part of the reason I've just been sniping reads instead of explaining them--I've seen Empire-scum sheeping me and trying to ride his buddy's lynch.) But dayum, that's content, keep it coming.

(Pretty sure I beat you to the punch on a lot of them, chew on that fucker.)

<_<
>_>

Read through Benmage's play in invitational, it's a little different from Heroes of Comedy in that he generally comes off a lot more friendly and amicable, I'd argue overly so, which I feel is different from his play here.

OK, BBQ time.

↑ Empire wrote:

↑ Tierce wrote:My only problem with Empire is that our reads are mostly matching where they

should

be, and that makes me somewhayt paranoid because I have revealed those reads already. (Which is part of the reason I've just been sniping reads instead of explaining them--I've seen Empire-scum sheeping me and trying to ride his buddy's lynch.) But dayum, that's content, keep it coming.

(Pretty sure I beat you to the punch on a lot of them, chew on that fucker.)

<_<
>_>

It's the N and Konowa reads I'm worried about. Your Townreads are lovely and keep 'em coming. I'll be chilling in Paris (literally, the city is COLD in February wtf give me my Mediterranean weather) while you have to churn out content, so etc. (>")>

VOTE: johhog

He feels flaccid.

Elaborate.

↑ Konowa wrote:Does Tammy normally overreact like this?

Yes. And ces I'm [/s]rarely[/s] never mean.

I wasn't meaning to overreact. I didnt know what you meant by timing. The game itself started on a bad day for me, that's why I was upfront about it. I knew I wouldn't be able to deliver what half the people here would expect from me, and didn't want to deal with accusations of not acting like myself as I knew the week would be stressful enough for me as it was. I had a little time and tried to read the thread, but really couldn't concentrate, and went fuck it I'll just read empire because that requires no paying attention.

I agreed it was a lazy read and part of that was because I skimmed his actual content, but I wanted to do something in the game and not be completely useless for nearly a week. I still stand by the reasoning for the read as I feel pretty capable of reading him and have what markers I would look for.

But basically I have a tendency when town to react badly to someone saying I'm not doing what is expected of me especially when my nerves have been on edge like they were this week.

↑ Johhog wrote:Elaborate.

Well hi! That was a fast catch. In the last two games we've played together where you've been town, you've felt really dynamic. Here you feel like your watching the party more than enjoying it. I'm only on page 3...4...do you get better?