Xenogears Mafia (Game Over)

Nachomamma8 · Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:25 pm

In post 4091, zMuffinMan wrote:just going to take a stab in the dark here... you could be wrong about some of those reads.

hence why i differentiate between a strong town block and a lean town block.

Nachomamma8 · Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:26 pm

muffin, why do you think aj would have faked all of that reasoning for his claim?

Nachomamma8 · Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:10 pm

who do you think is scum?

Nachomamma8 · Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:16 pm

what are your town reads you can take to the bank?

Nachomamma8 · Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:21 pm

What's with the TF and AJ leans?

Nachomamma8 · Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:08 am

In post 4102, Malakittens wrote:Aj is solid town.

Why?

Nachomamma8 · Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:54 am

In post 4118, Desperado wrote:And how was what TF said wildly different?

Hmmm?

In post 4120, Malakittens wrote:I'm going with Thezmon's read on him which I think them playing offsite he would know how to read him better than the rest of it.

OK.

Nachomamma8 · Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:22 am

In post 4042, waynegg wrote:It's not that. Mastin blatantly claimed Cop and then cleared Venrob. There was no reading between the lines. Muttley actually had 2 shots instead of the one he claimed and shot AJ last night. AJ is still alive, hence the bulletproof.

In post 4074, Aj The Epic wrote:I'm a one shot bullet proof townie,

Nachomamma8 · Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:43 am

In post 4136, mastin2 wrote:The mod neglected to inform Aj that his vest was used.

you sometimes don't know if your vest was used or not.

Nachomamma8 · Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:41 pm

Why would you tell him that early? Better to see if the replacement claims honestly on his own instead of check whether he has the common sense factor to follow his predecessor's claim.

Nachomamma8 · Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:01 am

Vote: Malakittens

I was hoping mala and I would chat more today.

Nachomamma8 · Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:27 pm

so the thing is we probably have a protective role

Nachomamma8 · Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:33 pm

In post 4229, Mac wrote:thank you for that nacho. do you care to comment on the game as it is? there is some rather important information being laid down that you are sweeping over.

well i was gonna say something else but then mastin's post happened and i don't gotta say it no more

Nachomamma8 · Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:41 pm

In post 4233, Mac wrote:did you draw scum?

nah, just lazy.

Nachomamma8 · Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:42 pm

today wasn't the day that i got back into the game although i totally hoped it would be

Nachomamma8 · Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:43 pm

TD is a solid choice for scum in townreads.

Nachomamma8 · Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:45 pm

see i keep missing that memo.

Nachomamma8 · Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:46 pm

In post 4241, mastin2 wrote:we're going to need all the help we can get to get him lynched.

you're damn right you're gonna need all the help you can get to get me lynched.
it will certainly spice up the day a bit.

Nachomamma8 · Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:54 pm

heh, you definitely were right about venmar though.

Nachomamma8 · Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:05 pm

In post 4247, mastin2 wrote:But I really don't see how the town-you wouldn't be trusting me on TiphaineDeath also being town.

I trust you.

AJ/BRO/?

Nachomamma8 · Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:59 pm

RICARDO BANDERAS vt
too hammered to be ovtown at the moment

Nachomamma8 · Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:01 pm

In post 4317, Ghostlin wrote:Let's get rid of Nacho now,

nope, today is the day when the push on me becomes tangible.
give me your case. givve me time.
i'm not often allowed to weave mastrpieces while town, but when I am allowed the town gets a pretty awesome benefit!

Vote: J THe EPIC

Nachomamma8 · Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:10 pm

TD VWNMAR tOWN

no other alterations

Nachomamma8 · Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:13 am

In post 4300, Andrius wrote:get this
my name is HAMMER
and im a supersaint

come at me

Then if someone who hammers doesn't die, they are confirmed scum, no?
Does the last townie on the wagon die, or no?

In post 4315, Ghostlin wrote:I would prefer Nacho, since if he's on the scum team, he's their fucking strongest player and we need to kick that out from under them.

There's also not an actual reason to lynch me. There will be cases on Desperado, AJ, and BRO by tomorrow.

In post 4317, Ghostlin wrote:Seriously, we need to make today the shortest day on record before scum find their bearings.

When the game is PoE'd, you need one day to solidify townreads and make sure what you're doing is right. Not quicklynch.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:15 am

And maybe Andrius. I'm not sure that a supersaint who only kills town would be called a supersaint, considering every other role with modifications has a new name.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:02 am

desperado/aj/bro, then.

Nachomamma8 · Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:30 pm

DESPERADO/BRO, FULLCLAIM KIDS

Nachomamma8 · Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:47 pm

actually i might be a poor lynch today and might not have to effort away quite yet

your role is a vanillaizer that only works on scum
means that it's hard as hell to use and mostly useless unless the scumteam is stacked
there's no reason to limit varsoon's vanilla cop unless the scumteam is similarly stacked with PRs

Nachomamma8 · Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:31 pm

In post 4492, Nachomamma8 wrote:DESPERADO/BRO, FULLCLAIM KIDS

In post 4496, Ghostlin wrote:This is bullshit. You know this is bullshit. Town Nacho has nothing to lose and everything to gain by disclosing his cases for full Town consumption. We've been waiting for Nacho to show up four in game days now.

Nut up or shut up and be lynched. We might do it anyway, but at least this way you tried.

My cases in mind are mostly PoE. BRO has been a read that I've gone back and forth on the entire day, AJ being shot and then claiming one-shot bulletproof is pretty claiming miller in response to being copped (not to mention that one-shot bulletproof makes no fucking sense in a one-faction game with a limited vig), and I literally forgot Desperado was in the game and usually he is one of my homies. Cases on people being town? Much better, thought about a lot more since I've been digging at weakpoints in my reads and haven't found anything interesting yet.

In post 4497, BROseidon wrote:Why the fuck would I ever claim before L-1 ever?

You're a strong possibility for scum, several power roles have outted and will be shot over you because they are NOT scumspects, and one of you three clearing yourselves would tell me that something's gone and I could start reanalyzing now as opposed to later.

In post 4498, Ghostlin wrote:He's hedged his bet

How are my bets hedged now? Who can I push other than those three without getting absolutely ruined?

In post 4498, Ghostlin wrote:There's nothing to indicate that Nacho's town, either.

Then why the hell am I the priority to be lynched? You know that I would be playing a low-key game regardless of my alignment. You know that occasionally I fade into the background (later days in Xenoblade). You know that I do have the capacity to step up my game. Lynching me because I'm not "high profile" enough is a poor Burden of Proficiency case, especially when you require me to step it up on days when I am pretty clearly busy. There's no reason for me to lurk as either alignment, you know I know how to post as scum, hence I'm probably lurking because I don't have shit for time.

In post 4503, Andrius wrote:Trust in me as you once did.

What happens when scum hold the hammer on your wagon?

In post 4508, Desperado wrote:What's funny about it? I think my lack of expressed interest in the Nacho wagon is a pretty clear indication of my feeling on it.

Why haven't you talked about it? Me getting wagonned should be something you have thoughts on.

In post 4516, Trust Fund wrote:
In post 4494, Nachomamma8 wrote:actually i might be a poor lynch today and might not have to effort away quite yet

your role is a vanillaizer that only works on scum
means that it's hard as hell to use and mostly useless unless the scumteam is stacked
there's no reason to limit varsoon's vanilla cop unless the scumteam is similarly stacked with PRs
You still have yet to explain where you're going with this thought.

I'm thinking the scumteam is composed of all PRs/non-goons, meaning the Vanilla result is strong evidence of me being town. Hence why I want BRO/desp to fullclaim and am lynching AJ the Epic; varsoon will be able to check if BRO/desp are vanilla and that will strongly influence my read on them if we all are so lucky to survive two days from now. Roleblocker's dead and we haven't lost a strong protective role yet (but we have lost a one-shot JK), so chances FTL will live to provide results is actually not that bad.

Nachomamma8 · Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:32 pm

Ghostlin, what townread do you want explained?

Nachomamma8 · Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:47 pm

See bottom of #4519, Ghostlin.

Nachomamma8 · Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:15 pm

In post 4507, zMuffinMan wrote:the funny thing about the nacho wagon is it has none of {desp, aj, bro} on it, and of those three, only bro has expressed interest in it. the other two have been largely non-factors today.

you know, you brought up earlier that you think scum would be jumping all over the chance to lynch me
i don't. i think that they would let the wagon go through on me if they thought they could get away with it. they know that i'm either going to step it up or get lynched, so why stick their necks out before i step it up?

Nachomamma8 · Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:21 am

In post 4529, zMuffinMan wrote:but why do you think aj-scum risks not lynching you-town?

I don't know why AJ wouldn't vote me as scum. Hell, I don't know why he wouldn't vote me as town. Mala-Rach flip scum, I'm the third in the holy trinity, he doesn't jump the fuck down my throat?

In post 4530, zMuffinMan wrote:also, i wasn't talking about when you were at L-1. i was talking about them not even talking about it at all, before it was clear that you'd most likely be lynched unless you did something amazingly town looking.

I don't think they'd assume they could get me lynched before that point.

In post 4530, zMuffinMan wrote:desp avoided talking about your wagon at all today?

desperado didn't respond to my request for him to claim; i'm guessing he just didn't read the game.

In post 4530, zMuffinMan wrote:also also, i don't believe you think the scum team consists of 5 PRs. if you did, you'd be questioning the existence of both ftl and venmar/antihero's role in this game in a similar fashion to what varsoon did (because he actually believes the scum team could consist of 5 PRs)

I don't understand this.

Nachomamma8 · Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:25 am

In post 4531, zMuffinMan wrote:why AJ, nacho? at best, he's bulletproof scum. at worst, he could be bulletproof town.

i doubt aj's a one-shot bulletproof.

Nachomamma8 · Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:28 am

aj, i noticed you claimed bulletproof as arsonist and also claimed that you were trying to draw a kill through investigative claim
in slenderman where you were ACTUALLY bulletproof you did absolutely nothing of the sort
where were you trying to draw the kill there?

Nachomamma8 · Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:56 am

mala roleblocker probably roleblocked the vig
one-shot scum bulletproof to block two-shot vig is pretty stupid.

Nachomamma8 · Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:43 am

In post 4544, BROseidon wrote:If you're so sure that the scumteam is all PRs, wouldn't it make sense to just have FTL investigate me?

what does this even mean...?

Nachomamma8 · Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:23 pm

In post 4538, zMuffinMan wrote:no, it's been confirmed that mutley wasn't roleblocked. but why would that even matter?

i was assuming you'd say you thought he was 1-shot bulletproof AND something else, but you think he's full bulletproof?

mmmmm, he's bulletproof, which changes things a bit.

In post 4540, Aj The Epic wrote:I tried to draw a kill day 1, or did you just ignore that part of the discussion?

I was asking where you tried to draw a kill Day 1 in Slenderman.

In post 4544, BROseidon wrote:If you're so sure that the scumteam is all PRs, wouldn't it make sense to just have FTL investigate me?

PR results aren't damning, but vanilla results clear people. Needed one of the two of you to claim VT so FTL could check that claim. You can be lynched tomorrow.

In post 4548, Ghostlin wrote:It is much more likely if FTL is unlimited use,

He's not unlimited use.

In post 4548, Ghostlin wrote:if you believe FTL is Town.

Do you think he's scum?

In post 4538, zMuffinMan wrote:no, it's been confirmed that mutley wasn't roleblocked. but why would that even matter?

i was assuming you'd say you thought he was 1-shot bulletproof AND something else, but you think he's full bulletproof?

mmmmm, he's bulletproof, which changes things a bit.

In post 4540, Aj The Epic wrote:I tried to draw a kill day 1, or did you just ignore that part of the discussion?

I was asking where you tried to draw a kill Day 1 in Slenderman.

In post 4544, BROseidon wrote:If you're so sure that the scumteam is all PRs, wouldn't it make sense to just have FTL investigate me?

PR results aren't damning, but vanilla results clear people. Needed one of the two of you to claim VT so FTL could check that claim. You can be lynched tomorrow.

In post 4548, Ghostlin wrote:It is much more likely if FTL is unlimited use,

He's not unlimited use.

In post 4548, Ghostlin wrote:if you believe FTL is Town.

Do you think he's scum?

In post 4553, Faster Than Light wrote:Nacho, what makes you think the scum team is all PRs?

Cabd's role is much more useful if the scumteam is all PRs, doesn't make sense to limit your role unless the scumteam has a shit ton of power.

In post 4554, Ghostlin wrote:It'd be like lynching Rach over Mala Day 1; they are both scummish, one of them is fucking less optimal than the other, but they're both decent plays.

Tell me again why AJ lynch is less optimal than lynching me?

Nachomamma8 · Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:25 pm

In post 4551, BROseidon wrote:
In post 4545, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 4544, BROseidon wrote:If you're so sure that the scumteam is all PRs, wouldn't it make sense to just have FTL investigate me?
what does this even mean...?
VT result would exonerate me, PR claim would increase likelihood of me being scum if you act under the assumption of an all-PR scumteam, no?

Yeah. Except if you claim vanilla townie beforehand, it's a cop investigation.

Nachomamma8 · Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:24 pm

In post 4560, BROseidon wrote:
In post 4558, Nachomamma8 wrote:Yeah. Except if you claim vanilla townie beforehand, it's a cop investigation.
How does the information from a vanilla result change if I claim vanilla beforehand?

It doesn't; it just means you can't squirm out of the result if he gets a PR result on you.

Nachomamma8 · Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:25 pm

In post 4544, BROseidon wrote:If I'm a super-strong PR that's a threat to scum, they'll know that I'm potentially a threat that needs to get shot. If I'm a weak PR/Vanilla/negative utility, scum know not to shoot me and push a lynch on me.

Claim PR/Not PR, then.
Now.

Nachomamma8 · Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:11 pm

In post 4567, BROseidon wrote:If you want a claim out of me, get town to run me up to L-1.

Your plan is bad and you should feel bad.

Why won't you claim PR/Not-PR? That takes away your previous concern, doesn't it?

In post 4570, Ghostlin wrote:FTL's role doesn't necessarily clear them.

No, but play does.

In post 4570, Ghostlin wrote:Mason ability which is confirmed Town to another player, chat abilities at night and essentially what amounts to Innocent Child when Mastin dies. The only other player with a permanent sustained ability is notscience, and he's an Innocent Child, and this hasn't helped his utility much beyond PoE/Town vote when/where we need it.

Two Masons, one innocent child, two innocent investigations plus a third confirmed town, then two more confirmed town investigations and a third confirmed town is 9 confirmed town in three nights. Add a two-shot vig and scum possibly have to deal with 10 confirmed town. (10/21 or hell even 7/21) is pretty fucking difficult to deal with, add a bit of limited power, and sure it makes sense to have a stacked scumteam. Also, there are chances that mutley was redirected into a bulletproof to set up for AJ claim (I don't think scum would leave mutley unblocked for a second night or even unmessed with).

In post 4570, Ghostlin wrote:You went three game Days without being more flaky than a Grands biscuit and and now you've got the fucking unmitigated gall to ask me why I want you dead more than AJ, who I feel while scum, could possibly be just worse than you at this.

And yet despite all of this I somehow have plenty plenty plenty of posts, I did end up voting and pushing rach while defending andy despite a thousand reasons not to, made no real reason to save mala the next day and instead had fun helping to lynch her to! This means that my play somehow consisted of letting scumbuddies die around me without making an effort to take a particular portion of cred from their deaths or making a particular effort to save them, which is pretty stupid.

Nachomamma8 · Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:20 pm

So you think scum is going to shoot you at night because they think you're a PR?

Nachomamma8 · Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:20 pm

You think they are going to be "oh, BRO is totally a PR and not lynchable as shit" and then shoot the fuck out of you without knowing for sure?

Nachomamma8 · Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:24 pm

In post 4578, zMuffinMan wrote:mm when i suggested that my thinking was that even if town does lynch aj->desp->bro first, if, say, bro flips town, nacho then has to backpedal hard on his town reads all the way to the endgame when the seeds of doubt about his slot have already been sown.

which one of the sacred trinity will flip town?

Nachomamma8 · Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:28 pm

In post 4584, zMuffinMan wrote:besides, what you're suggesting (scum team being full PRs) only makes town power even stronger because that would mean every VT result is confirmed town. if we assume that VT results aren't confirmed town because goons are possible, that significantly weakens your theory about how many confirmed town there could be.

vt results aren't confirmed because goons brings the innocent club from 10 to 7.
we wouldn't know about scumteam composition until the game's over, however

In post 4584, zMuffinMan wrote:this seems rather derpy. it's a very low chance that mutley just happened to be redirected to the player he targeted anyway instead of, say, redirecting to any strong town player and avoiding having to claim BP altogether.

brainstorming occasionally produces retarded results

Nachomamma8 · Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:54 pm

In post 4587, Ghostlin wrote:You just did what you claimed that you didn't just do in this post. In even making the argument you were on the Mala/Rach wagons and defending Andrius, you just claimed your portion of the cred.

So your current model for me is that I played suboptimally around the Rach/Mala wagons in order to setup for this?

In post 4588, zMuffinMan wrote:mostly because he seems to give more of a fuck than the other two, and i can see scum apathy kicking in about now when the game is mostly figured out.

So you feel pretty comfortable with everyone outside of me/bro/desp/aj?

In post 4591, BROseidon wrote:
In post 4583, Nachomamma8 wrote:You think they are going to be "oh, BRO is totally a PR and not lynchable as shit" and then shoot the fuck out of you without knowing for sure?
Why give them certainty in this instead of giving them the option to choose wrong?

You getting cleared is far more important than you surviving one more night.

Nachomamma8 · Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:54 pm

Cabd, where the hell are you? I've prodded you plenty of times to talk about BRO's meta but you haven't even taken a shot at it yet.

Nachomamma8 · Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:57 pm

Andrius:

In post 4519, Nachomamma8 wrote:What happens when scum hold the hammer on your wagon?

Nachomamma8 · Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:00 pm

Nachomamma8 · Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:34 am

In post 4612, zMuffinMan wrote:yeah. i have (what i think are) very good reasons for every other player being town. i don't plan to reassess this unless something somehow comes along that changes my mind about those 4 players or one of the rest of the players, and outside of more than one player in that group of 4 flipping town, i cannot really think of a "something" that would change my mind here. dunno if you can really call this confbias, but whatever.

then can we lynch everyone else in that group of three? aj's posturing to jump on my lynch, desperado's white-knighting me, who knows what the fuck bro is doing, and honestly i can't really reanalyze that group of three when there are three people i don't strongly feel is town and three scum left. i don't want to accept my lynch when there's a possibility of me being wrong (for example on someone like trust fund), but one townflip in that group of three and I will make myself lynchable after reanalyzing.

In post 4615, waynegg wrote:Lynching Nacho will either exonerate or condemn Andy. I'm thinking exonerate. As much as I enjoy playing with Nacho, I have reason to trust in Andy.

I don't think Andy can read me that well.

In post 4618, Desperado wrote:
Unvote
Vote: AJ

Not lynching Nacho and don't understand AJ's thought process re: BP = traitor.

Why aren't you lynching me?

Nachomamma8 · Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:09 am

why would a bulletproof be informed of a traitor role?
what is your flavor name and your real name, AJ?

Nachomamma8 · Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:29 am

What?

Nachomamma8 · Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:45 am

In post 4629, Aj The Epic wrote:already fullclaimed today, Nacho. Are you even trying any more?

Your rolename is Reincarnated Contact.
What is your ability name?

Nachomamma8 · Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:46 am

In post 4608, Nachomamma8 wrote:Cabd, where the hell are you? I've prodded you plenty of times to talk about BRO's meta but you haven't even taken a shot at it yet.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:58 am

pencil me in for a time that isn't in bullshit specific time

Nachomamma8 · Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:39 pm

Vote: BROseidon

Nachomamma8 · Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:41 pm

In post 4672, borkjerfkin wrote:Conditional Godfather Bulletproof Ability Enabler Traitor.

HEY ANDY
WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS CONDITIONAL GODFATHER BULLETPROOF ABILITY ENABLER TRAITOR ENABLES?
DO YOU THINK HE ENABLES TOWN POWER ROLES
OR SCUM ONES
?

Nachomamma8 · Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:19 pm

In post 4685, Andrius wrote:oh and if youre going to argue that scum enablers wouldn't enable town roles
ive definitely spun that in a couple games of mine

no im not i'm just asking you which 1 you think he enables specifically

Nachomamma8 · Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:03 pm

In post 4693, BROseidon wrote:I'd be surprised if we're not at 10:2.

I'm fine with massclaim this round. I think Condorcet would be appropriate for determining order.

VOTE: Nacho

I don't see massclaim changing my push of Nacho with a side of Desp today.

how about fuck condorcet because it's obvious you're going first
so claim

Nachomamma8 · Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:31 pm

tf why not lynch bro

Nachomamma8 · Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:45 pm

In post 4724, Andrius wrote:NACHO I SEE THE DERAIL

what derail?
derail from bro scum --> bro scum?

Nachomamma8 · Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:51 pm

In post 4729, Andrius wrote:no
the DONT LYNCH ANDY to the LYNCH BRO
not a derail for you
for the grouplynch

I don't know what this even means.

Nachomamma8 · Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:53 pm

i don't want to lynch you because you're probably town
somehow i don't think the only game you keep playing is a scumgame where you constantly scream KILL ME

Nachomamma8 · Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:54 pm

if bro/desp flip town then i'll suicide you so we can die in our stupid mutual paranoia in yet another game
but i don't think it's necessary quite yet

Nachomamma8 · Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:55 pm

cabd, what did aj's magical enabling power enable?

Nachomamma8 · Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:59 pm

In post 4739, Andrius wrote:no man no
I want to kill scum with my thing!

then please stop killing me
when i get bro lynched and he flips scum and varsoon gets a not-pr on desperado
we'll make him hammer you
and then we'll lynch him the next day

Nachomamma8 · Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:00 pm

:/ you don't have to go to bed
i can start chugging beer but it'll take me a while to get drunk probably

Nachomamma8 · Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:37 am

ANDRIUS
I AM COMPLETELY FUCKING HAMMERED
FOR ANDYLOVE <3

tammy orc hanasawa mara as my witnesses

Nachomamma8 · Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:38 pm

massclaim
massclaim
everybody massclaim
massclaim
massclaim
everybody talk

Nachomamma8 · Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:38 pm

In post 4804, BROseidon wrote:
In post 4803, waynegg wrote:Then that would just be a lack of effort. With effort comes skill.
Here, let's play a game.

NS, you start trying, and i'll start not being upset that you don't try. You have conftown status; use it.

what the fuck does this have to do with anything, BROscum?

Nachomamma8 · Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:43 pm

i'm gonna continue to coast because i'm confirmed town

Nachomamma8 · Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:44 pm

and while trying to give motivating speeches to the ic is cool and protown and all why is it useful? we don't really need him all that much, it seems.

Nachomamma8 · Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:48 pm

Seems dumb. Why were you so brazen about not claiming yesterday?

Nachomamma8 · Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:54 am

In post 4812, BROseidon wrote:I was trying to crumb a strong town PR to bait an NK. Was a longshot, but still worth taking.

Especially when my strongest scumread is telling me to claim. I'm not just going to take orders from scum ^_^

In post 4815, waynegg wrote:Nacho. Checking out your new Avi... Did you lose a bet somewhere? Lol!

Andy. I have your usual affliction. Who the hell claimed madon?

I did!

In post 4832, Trust Fund wrote:
In post 4808, Nachomamma8 wrote:i'm gonna continue to coast because i'm confirmed town
I laughed. Do tell me how exactly you intend to prove this.

Well I can't go about doing this until people actually start talking to me. What do you think AJ's role enabled?

In post 4833, BROseidon wrote:2) I like how you decided to vote me as soon as I pointed out that your claim could be a gambit, and that we shouldn't treat you as conftown.

It seems like you're trying to posture for my townflip, BRO. Do you really think there's reasonable doubt that Venmar/Antihero is cop? Or did you think that Godfather was so someone else could get an innocent...?

In post 4836, BROseidon wrote:If Desp and Nacho are both town, then scum are 100% conftowning Anti (including possibly anti)

It's hilarious you even attempt to bring up this scenario.

In post 4853, Ghostlin wrote:This is a Nacho that's content to go with popular wagons (like Mala and AJ and really Rach was a sacrificial lamb there).

I'm willing to go with popular wagons that are all apparently my buddies, which doesn't seem like a particularly horrible thing.

In post 4853, Ghostlin wrote:There's not even a modicum of passion here. He doesn't give a shit, and considering we're WINNING, that's really, really off. This is a Nacho that is using his reputation as almost a casual shield of arrogance.

Why is it off considering we're winning? I don't get apathetic when there's a CHALLENGE on my hands.
Here the challenge is lynch BRO then Desperado because the game got POE'd to shit. That doesn't seem like too much of a challenge.

In post 4853, Ghostlin wrote:Do I have 100% proof of what I just said? No, but I've also had a pretty good track record this game. Had you listened to me, we would of lynched Mala instead of Nick and be even closer to winning. In other words, this is a Nacho that's much lower key in the late game than he should be.

good track record doesn't mean you're correct about me

In post 4854, Ghostlin wrote:If for some unknown fucking reason Nacho is town and he's just deliberately being this lazy, first off, really dude? "I'm obvtown so I'm going to coast?" Fucking REALLY?

I continue not to coast. I continue to do just as much as everyone else except I lack formal cases. I currently don't like that BRO is pushing on ANTIHERO after he claimed cop because he's not "100%" confirmed; it reeks of him trying to outmaneuver the townflips of the few mislynches he has room to get and break into the confirmed town block. I didn't like BRO's "oh I'm totally not going to claim because a scumread asked me to and I thought I could draw an NK": that is complete 100% bullshit; scum wasn't going to kill outside of that pool of 95-100% town and everyone knows it. Do you want me to make cases on how you're town? How Waynegg is town not only by being town as fuck by play but by having a two-shot Vig (and knowing his second shot got whiffed on a bulletproof who FLIPPED BULLETPROOF)? How Varsoon is town for his "gambit" on me actually making a modicrum of sense as well as the posts he's pulled off with all the same genuine crazy flair we've consistently seen in the past and all know is obviously coming from town? Or maybe how TD and Mac are probably town because there are innocents on them and there's a claimed godfather? I think I'm missing a passionate case for NS being confirmed town, but his name on green makes that one self explanatory. That means there are 12 alive. Andrius is claiming a role that says "I CAN CONFIRM SOMEONE AS TOWN IF YOU LYNCH ME", which is something no scum ever said in his situation. That leaves TF/BRO/Desperado. With 7 confirmed town (FULLY CONFIRMED TOWN) and 5 not confirmed town, town can lynch every single one of the unconfirmed pool and be absolutely fucking fine. I lean town on TF because he seems to realize this and I'm not afraid of anyone squirming out of shit now that the SCUM TRAITOR GODFATHER ENABLER WHO OBVIOUSLY ENABLES ALL OF THIS HORRIBLY BROKEN SCUM POWER ROLES is dead. And yes, the scumteam being composed mainly of PRs makes me more likely town and a bad lynch. But I'm not a 100% confirm like the majority of the game, I fully acknowledge. Why can't you see that I have absolutely nowhere to run as scum? And why can't you see BRO AFRAID TO CLAIM/throwing dirt on confirmed power roles when he damn well knows better? He actually said the words "If Nacho/Desperado flip town." As town in that position, can you see yourself saying the same thing? Hell. Fucking. No. The only way town can win this game is if they stay within the lines and don't lynch confirmed town. I'm hauling as much ass as I can to keep you fucks on the right track, but honestly, it shouldn't take much.

So yes I am coasting but why the hell wouldn't I be?

In post 4856, BROseidon wrote:If it's only a soft-reset, which parts are you reseting less/not at all?

THIS QUESTION HAS ZERO PURPOSE
If you want to improve your experiences with him, save it for the postgame.

Nachomamma8 · Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:04 am

In post 4881, BROseidon wrote:And last I checked Godfathers don't necessitate the presence of a cop. Weren't you in that AP game with 2 millers and no cop?

millers doesn't mean cops
godfathers usually do
there's also the whole mod meta thing where AP fucking loves millers
bork doesn't love godfathers
nice try though!

Nachomamma8 · Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:05 am

In post 4881, BROseidon wrote:Reasonable doubt that Venmar/Anti is town because the only townie thing about the slot is the claim.

what's scum about them? the PGO claim to prevent them from being targetted?
venmar pushing on td then later calling him town?
venmar pushing on mac then later calling him town?
mastin's strong cop read on the slot?
the inquisitor claim which happens to fit pretty solidly within the setup?

choose one!

Nachomamma8 · Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:08 am

In post 4884, BROseidon wrote:Oh yes, that mod meta that I'm so familiar with with my excellent range of experiences and modding

you're familiar now!
i'd also like to point out that this "gambit" would require venmar faking cop from the beginning with the knowledge that there wasn't a real cop in the game and that their traitor was a godfather (which they probably had no way of knowing in the beginning!) and for bork to put a traitor godfather in the game for actually no reason.

Nachomamma8 · Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:09 am

In post 4884, BROseidon wrote:What's scum is how they've engaged with the game outside of the claims. I already had a spat with Venmar about this, and Anti's just coasted except when I called out the possibility of a gambit.

venmar played weird but that was due to him being dumb about rach and cop things
"coasting" is nowhere close to a real reason to throw doubt on a claim like anti's

Nachomamma8 · Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:18 am

why anti over trust fund?

Nachomamma8 · Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:19 am

it doesn't require it but i'm pointing out how obscenely lucky anti would have to be to pull this off
your suspicion of him is approx. 1000% bullshit

Nachomamma8 · Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:25 am

your explanation is taking unnaturally long, BRO.

Nachomamma8 · Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:10 am

In post 4893, BROseidon wrote:And Anti and TF both come into consideration at the same time.

Nachomamma8 · Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:10 am

cabd what do you think of that statement?
just curious

Nachomamma8 · Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:52 am

In post 4901, Andrius wrote:the counterpoint, obviously, is if scum have people in the CONFTOWNBLOC that means they can just do what nacho is saying and lynch NONCONFTOWN until allhellbreakslooseth.

Find me possible scum in the townblock. Otherwise this is just nonsense speculation.

In post 4901, Andrius wrote:still think this is stretching like hell

how
where
We've had a grand total of one power role die by Day 5 and that power role was a mason. His partner's power role hasn't been disabled. There are no living power roles who have had their powers disabled from the "enabler" dying, meaning that it's only logical to conclude that it was scum power that was disabled. And if scum power had an enabler, and town power had a role that one-shot vanillaized scum, then it's only logical to conclude that the scumteam is fucking stacked and vanilla townie results are equivalent to confirmed town (with the possible exception of BRO's).

In post 4903, Andrius wrote:Could enable his own team- could enable abilities on both sides- could enable one common ability that both sides use (DayTalk). Who knows?

As far as abilities on our sides go, how many abilities have been disabled? (Zero)
Mac/Trust Fund, did you guys have daytalk but lose it with AJ's death?

In post 4906, BROseidon wrote:Andy that spec is great and all, but how does it help us lynch scum?

In BROworld, setup speculation doesn't help you lynch scum but telling the IC to play better does.

In post 4922, Trust Fund wrote:"Why the actual fuck would you not lynch me WAY before the un-counter-claimed cop?" is my response to this since you were curious, nacho.

Good response!
BRO, your response?

In post 4947, Antihero wrote:you're a "universal read" the same way i'm a "universal read" buddy, by way of your claim.

nacho, please come in here and set everyone straight.

It's just waynegg, don't worry.

In post 4965, Mac wrote:neighourized trust fund, tracked FTL to Trust Fund.

and in case you were having any doubts, FTL is even more town!

Nachomamma8 · Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:59 am

RECAP:

In post 4880, Nachomamma8 wrote:Do you want me to make cases on how you're town? How Waynegg is town not only by being town as fuck by play but by having a two-shot Vig (and knowing his second shot got whiffed on a bulletproof who FLIPPED BULLETPROOF)? How Varsoon is town for his "gambit" on me actually making a modicrum of sense as well as the posts he's pulled off with all the same genuine crazy flair we've consistently seen in the past and all know is obviously coming from town? Or maybe how TD and Mac are probably town because there are innocents on them and there's a claimed godfather? I think I'm missing a passionate case for NS being confirmed town, but his name on green makes that one self explanatory. That means there are 12 alive. Andrius is claiming a role that says "I CAN CONFIRM SOMEONE AS TOWN IF YOU LYNCH ME", which is something no scum ever said in his situation. That leaves TF/BRO/Desperado. With 7 confirmed town (FULLY CONFIRMED TOWN) and 5 not confirmed town, town can lynch every single one of the unconfirmed pool and be absolutely fucking fine. I lean town on TF because he seems to realize this and I'm not afraid of anyone squirming out of shit now that the SCUM TRAITOR GODFATHER ENABLER WHO OBVIOUSLY ENABLES ALL OF THIS HORRIBLY BROKEN SCUM POWER ROLES is dead. And yes, the scumteam being composed mainly of PRs makes me more likely town and a bad lynch. But I'm not a 100% confirm like the majority of the game, I fully acknowledge. Why can't you see that I have absolutely nowhere to run as scum? And why can't you see BRO AFRAID TO CLAIM/throwing dirt on confirmed power roles when he damn well knows better? He actually said the words "If Nacho/Desperado flip town." As town in that position, can you see yourself saying the same thing? Hell. Fucking. No. The only way town can win this game is if they stay within the lines and don't lynch confirmed town. I'm hauling as much ass as I can to keep you fucks on the right track, but honestly, it shouldn't take much.

In post 4971, Nachomamma8 wrote:We've had a grand total of one power role die by Day 5 and that power role was a mason. His partner's power role hasn't been disabled. There are no living power roles who have had their powers disabled from the "enabler" dying, meaning that it's only logical to conclude that it was scum power that was disabled. And if scum power had an enabler, and town power had a role that one-shot vanillaized scum, then it's only logical to conclude that the scumteam is fucking stacked and vanilla townie results are equivalent to confirmed town (with the possible exception of BRO's).

2. Andrius - d1 scum counterwagon + claimed supersaint with slight investigative powers (wants to be lynched)
4. BROseidon - nothing to clear
5. Desperado - nothing to clear
6. Faster Than Light - vanilla cop confirmed targetting what's essentially a VT after they outted by conftown
7. Ghostlin - un cc'ed mason
8. Mac - cop clear
10. Nachomamma8 - vt result when scumteam is likely all PRs (partial clear)
14. notscience, Midori Uzuki - innocent child
16. waynegg - two shot vig w/scum bulletproof
18. TiphaineDeath - cop clear
19. Trust Fund - unlikely scum based on target of BRO N1 (cabd-bro scum would have a better gambit, partial clear)
20. Antihero - un cc'ed cop w/scum godfather

7 confirmed town
5 unconfirmed
BROseidon/Desperado lynch
Desperado/BROseidon lynch

5 confirmed town
3 unconfirmed
Trust Fund hammers Andrius

4 confirmed town
1 unconfirmed
Nachomamma8 lynch

IF GAME IS STILL GOING ON (it won't be)
FTL lynch
since confirmation isn't 1000% like everyone else's, just pretty damn close.

Nachomamma8 · Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:04 am

In post 4974, BROseidon wrote:I agree with Nacho's list for lynch order except swapping him for me,

Why?

Nachomamma8 · Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:04 am

And I thought you were paranoid of Anti, who I would never see lynched?

Nachomamma8 · Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:26 am

It's me, you, or Desperado. First one to flip town damns the other two to a burning fire for the rest of eternity.

Nachomamma8 · Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:44 am

In post 4979, Andrius wrote:Antihero. Boom.
Faking confirmed innocents on actual townies and/or a buddy (but not two that's stretchcity). Fakeclaim of Cop with modifiers. Boom.

the claim is outside of venmar's scope as scum.
the fakeclaim is 1000 times any other of those other scumfuck fakeclaims.
so the idea that one person came up with a godtier fakeclaim while aj/mala/rach stayed specifically within their scumgames is laughable.

In post 4979, Andrius wrote:The whole bulletproof could be a silly and stupid red herring and the vig could be scum who made the best shots he could while still being able to fake townvig.

mafia TWO SHOT vigilante + mafia roleblocker + redirector + mad scientist + bulletproof godfather traitor makes more sense than the scumteam being stacked? hell no.

In post 4979, Andrius wrote:Would we know if our PRs were disabled?

Yes. That's the only thing that makes logical sense. Otherwise there's a situation where people think they are being blocked but in reality their powers just don't work anymore.

In post 4979, Andrius wrote:No way an Enabler enables his ENTIRE SCUMTEAM.
Riding the balance of A WHOLE SCUMTEAM on the backs of a TRAITOR ENABLER and the PASSIVE ASSIGNER is too risky.

Town power seems pretty limited to me; traitor just has to survive the first few days and can't be vigged or investigated.
Why is it "too risky"?

In post 4979, Andrius wrote:additionally, you're doing what someone accused BRO of doing- flipping the gameboard around. We're looking at a 7:5 ish split with PRs one one side and MOSTLY VT/UNCLAIMED on the other where the VT side is the LYNCHSIDE. You're pushing for CONFTOWN THE VTs and arguing for STACKED SCUMTEAM which ONLY MEANS that there are SCUM PRs out there blending in with the first group. Elsewise where would they be? BRO can't claim PR, and you can't either unless you/FTL/mac which is already an insane list. So there's DESP and TD. HIGHLY UNLIKELY we MORE POWER in there hidden somewhere.

both scum are claimed VTs. BRO may actually be a VT thanks to TF's power.
Desperado is not a VT, although his power could be disabled.

In post 4979, Andrius wrote:I mean PROBABLY since GODFATHER BULLETPROOF but we don't know if they are SEPERATE or GODFATHER modifies BULLETPROOF, hence the GODFATHER ROLE offering BULLETPROOF PROTECTION (not Investigation-Immunity as it sometimes does!)

In Xenoblade, orcinus was a godmother.
Not an Investigation Immune Godmother.
A Godmother.

Nachomamma8 · Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:49 am

Well let's see what the Enabler could disable when it dies:

A) Scum Power
B) Town Cop (although it disables itself when it gets two innocents)
C) Mason Pair (one-shot jailkeeper or odd night bodyguard, seems nerfed to me)
D) One-Shot Conditional Vanillaizer
E) Non Consecutive VT Cop
F) Two Shot Vig
G) Tracker/Neighborizer/Commuter

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Nachomamma8 · Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:51 am

ALL OF OUR TOWN POWER MINUS ONE-SHOT JAILKEEP IS STILL ALIVE
NONE HAVE BEEN INFORMED OF LOSING POWER

Nachomamma8 · Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:52 am

also if cabd didn't suck he woulda asked bro was power he gained
"My power vanillaizes if scum, gives a one-shot unspecified PR when town."

Nachomamma8 · Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:00 am

In post 4991, Andrius wrote:IF HES MAFIA HES ONESHOT. NO WAY HE SHOOTS AJ N2 BEFORE THE CLAIM, DOESNT GET THE TRAITOR, thus FORCING AJ TO CLAIM INTHREAD TO BROADCAST.

if he's mafia he shot saki
he probably shot aj as well unless you think he "vigged" b&b.
otherwise: how did he recruit AJ? why did they out him if they recruited him? how did they think of the bulletproof gambit?

In post 4991, Andrius wrote:1) not trying to lynch the confirmable group but
2) not trying to lynch the VTs who ARENT conf.town btw

wtf i'm trying to lynch bro and desperado

In post 4992, Andrius wrote:my argument is that most of them HAVE NOTHING TO USE
antihero lost his after 2 innocents
joat lost his after abilities got used

if they're incredibly limited shot
WHY THE HELL WOULD THEY BE ENABLED BY A TRAITOR

Nachomamma8 · Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:01 am

In post 4994, Andrius wrote:look at xenoblade then look at lol

then look at xenogears
then look back at me

Nachomamma8 · Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:06 am

we fell in love on day 1 when we were both getting called scum for stupid reasons

Nachomamma8 · Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:06 am

then i got paranoid AS I OFTEN DO at one point about you, and then i fixed it and fully endorsed you later

Nachomamma8 · Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:10 am

In post 5000, Andrius wrote:dont think he shot aj because if he did aj would get recruited by popular mechanics and he didn't so im really not liking that theory

usually nightkills recruit
vig shots do not

In post 5000, Andrius wrote:scumvig kills b2b, planning to pass it off as a LYNCHED NICK, NICK FLIPPED TOWN THEY ARENT BEING USEFUL AT ALL

seems pretty crazy to go from vig saki --> vig towniest player in game
also seems crazy to give mafia two-shot vigilante considering consistent nightkills already

In post 5000, Andrius wrote:THATS MY POINT

then the enabler probably didn't enable those motherfuckers
he probably enabled santa claus and the roleblocker w/a one-shot redirect
the one-shot redirect pretty much screams "use vig for your own after his first shot" btw

Nachomamma8 · Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:15 am

two shot mafia vig still seems pretty crazy bro

Nachomamma8 · Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:16 am

as in if i lost to a two shot mafia vig
that isn't really my fault

Nachomamma8 · Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:16 am

and hell, if they did vig btb/shoot aj that still means they shot aj
why?

Nachomamma8 · Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:17 am

AND WHY FORCE AJ TO CLAIM BULLETPROOF AND HAVE HIM SCREAM RECRUIT ME RECRUIT ME IF THEY ALREADY RECRUITED HIM

Nachomamma8 · Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:18 am

WHY NOT JUST CLAIM ONE-SHOT VIG ON SAKI AND LEAVE IT AT THAT

Nachomamma8 · Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:19 am

my point is waynegg isn't scum

Nachomamma8 · Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:19 am

i think i might have lost track of yours.

Nachomamma8 · Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:22 am

Nachomamma8 · Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:23 am

andy why do we have to fight

Nachomamma8 · Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:02 pm

In post 5022, notscience wrote:I get the faint rememberance of 501.

Nacho pegged Syry as scum on D1 for not having an interaction that the usually have as town.

I could read Syr like a book then and both of us knew it.
The relationship between Andy and I is far more complex.

Nachomamma8 · Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:03 pm

In post 5024, Ghostlin wrote:Let's just be real with everyone here: if scum only has power roles, then at least one of the VT claims is a lie. Which leaves the remaining PRs to be:

With the possibility of BRO reading as Vanilla after he's been Vanillaized. Don't forget about that!

Nachomamma8 · Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:04 pm

so hey, how about this.
we lynch BRO first, then investigate desperado during the night.
if desperado investigates vanilla, we kill me next because there's no longer a reason to kill me.
then when i flip town, you guys lynch desperado.

Nachomamma8 · Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:19 pm

there's no longer a reason NOT to kill me

Nachomamma8 · Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:09 am

In post 5042, waynegg wrote:And also, if we're at 10-2 why all the super conservative play?

Please stop voting Antihero.

Nachomamma8 · Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:17 am

Vote: Desperado

Nachomamma8 · Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:18 am

i thought i was voting him already

Nachomamma8 · Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:39 am

hey ghostlin i said a bunch of things

Nachomamma8 · Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:05 am

i dreamed last night that i got paranoid of desperado-town, but let him get lynched anyways and he flipped scum
it was a good dream.

Nachomamma8 · Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:50 am

i'm trying to think of a witty thing to scumBRO but i don't got anything atm

Nachomamma8 · Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:30 am

desperabro

Nachomamma8 · Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:33 am

yeah ok bro "i wanna lynch antihero" seidon

Nachomamma8 · Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:43 am

dudes i totally wouldn't be in this horrible position as scum

Nachomamma8 · Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:44 am

cabd probably wouldn't either unless he was playing an absolute shit game but he really isn't

Nachomamma8 · Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:45 am

aka i have enough rep to get more than one mislynch
i would have had ghostlin mason pegged dead to rights if i was looking for the crumb
probably would've shot venmar's obv-lying ass

Nachomamma8 · Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:49 am

bro got an early cred hit from ffery early on
so then he got a little too bus-happy

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:38 am

Vote: BROseidon

End of the road.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:11 am

In post 5131, BROseidon wrote:Yeah, for you.

VOTE: Nacho

We both know this game is gonna end in two days, regardless of outcome. Last scum needs approximately... 4 mislynches in order to take the game? 5 if we count andy. Today is not about reads or logic. Today is about the dance.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:57 am

In post 1597, Aj The Epic wrote:...............Andrius
..................|
Mala-Rach-Nacho
...|.......|
...|---Venmar

a third buddy on here means that AJ decided to hard bus 3/4 of his teammates, with desperado being the only one worthy of being a townread

bro interactions:

In post 1501, Aj The Epic wrote:Bro's a nullscum read, but nick is a scum read after we clear the other obvious scum out. Venmar had some bad posts recently that I'll quote here really quick.

In post 2638, Aj The Epic wrote:nd if we're missing really bad (trust me, we won't... I got this) we can lynch Bro as an 'out of options' lynch. But not until then.

In post 2737, Aj The Epic wrote:But bro, on the other hand, I don't see any reason to lynch him other than he's bothering you for all the wrong reasons.

In post 2993, Aj The Epic wrote:And since I'm reading TD as town and Bro as somewhere at a town lean, the best that could be is buddying. Yet they aren't the smartest to buddy with as TD and Bro have taken a goodly amount of heat throughout the whole day.

In post 3530, Aj The Epic wrote:BROseidon, Trust Fund, notscience, BeautyAndTheBeast, Mutleyddmc are all town reads of mine or essential confirmed town.

In post 3935, Aj The Epic wrote:The exchange between her and bro was interesting in the fact that it made bro look awful and mala look townie when put in a vacuum. I've been re-reading her and sitting for today just to make sure I'm not going confirmation bias on her with Rach.

In post 4621, Aj The Epic wrote:Let's assume Muffin town, FTL town, and Ghostlin town. Assume no scum because we're using this to help find. I'll mark assumptions blue. On a counterwagon drawn by scum, I would generally guess one more scum leaving TF. The last two are bussing. You've got to have insurance. Using confirmation bias, I'd say a good guess is two of Desp, Nacho, TD, TF are scum. I don't even know what TF has done recently, and nick was diehard on TD being town. Nacho was mastin's pick for an outside scum pick, and I completely agreed d1. I've never seen Nacho like this, but then again, I really don't play against him as much as I first assumed I did.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:28 am

In post 5137, BROseidon wrote:The only reason to vote me over Nacho at this point is an appeal to authority.

What appeal to authority have I brought up against you ever? There's burden of proficiency (I wouldn't allow myself to be found in this fucktarded position as scum) to respond to "Nacho isn't trying hard enough", but the strongest piece of evidence against you is trying to maneuver in the unconfirmeds. These last couple of days I have been making an extremely focused effort to strengthen the confirmed town block that DOESN'T INCLUDE ME, while you've been making a push against me (you had quite a late jump on the Desperado wagon) and throwing suspicion on the confirmed town blocks.

In post 5137, BROseidon wrote:1) I was the first person to push nhammen/Mala

This doesn't seem to matter much, considering how the scumteam bussed the living hell out of each other.[quote="In

2) I have, from a weak position, strongly pushed for every other scum lynch, when it would have made sense for scum-me to let myself get bussed (or scum could have bussed me day 1 when I WASN'T EVEN READING THE GODDAMN THREAD).

I've made no effort for posturing worth shit, which is somewhat more valuable than bussing to shit (again, when the scumteam tried bussing each other to hell).
But, we can play that game and I'll point out that D1 I pretty stubbornly stayed on Rach and protected Andrius when mollie/ffery were getting sketched out about me because of my townread on him. The only scum who ever got defended by me was mala, who made it into the townblock thanks to mollie's read on her, but that disintegrated pretty quickly. My townblock has been pretty much scum free the whole fucking game, and I haven't made an effort to protect any of my buddies ever, which is something I do pretty often as scum. Take Meta Playstyle Mafia, where I attempted to defend TheTrollie from MattP so I could stop our team from getting horribly fucked up for more than a single second. Or Dixon Hill, where as I went down provided a meta case on the Ms Marangal hydra being town. Open 507 I protected both of my scumpartners until the final day, where I attempted to bus the hell out of one of them. #YOLOville I ended up butting heads with our Traitor early on accident, but protected other two partners until I went down. Resurgence Mafia I bussed one partner hard, then got my other 4 partners in a townblock and took control of everything in town. League of Legends Mafia, replaced in late, came up with a plan to let my lurkfuck partner live another day because she had a cool ability and buddied the hell out of my other partner. There are games that I've played as scum where I've bussed one partner, but me not taking a strong hand in defending a single one of my partners stands out pretty strongly; cabd could probably tell you that if he could meta people decently. Ghostlin's earlier argument that I'm coming up with this argument specifically to push it now is bullshit when it's not a strong enough argument to get me past the 100% confirmed town core of Varsoon, Mac, TD, Antihero, notscience, and Waynegg and the mostly confirmed addition of Andrius. It's not enough to get past trust fund, and my former theory about the scumteam being completely stacked doesn't really hold much water anymore.

Yet, BRO still doesn't have complete conviction that I am scum even though he pretty much should if town (hell, he even brought up that scummy as fuck "if Desperado and Nacho both flip town, I'll lynch Antihero" comment. The key is looking where people flinch, and as the game's gotten down to unwinnable for scum, I haven't flinched once. BRO, on the other hand...

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:40 am

In post 5148, waynegg wrote:So, I have no reason to not think antihero is scum.

except for the godfather and the crumbs and clearing two townies

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:40 am

which is kind of big

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:53 am

In post 5153, waynegg wrote:
In post 5150, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 5148, waynegg wrote:So, I have no reason to not think antihero is scum.
except for the godfather and the crumbs and clearing two townies
Explain better. I don't know what you're talking about.

1) Godfathers imply the existence of a cop of some sort, just as millers imply the existence of a cop (except stronger!). Site meta leans against Godfathers, so when they are in the game, they are usually in the game for no fucking reason. Not to mention that the role has excellent symmetry with yours: the traitor is immune to the two-shot cop AND the two-shot vig.

2) Crumbs. I ended up attacking the fuck out of venmar for his odd read changes, but this makes complete and total sense with cop investigations in tow. He also crumbed pretty heavily as a hider last game, so this is consistent with his town meta.

3) Clearing two townies. Mac and TD are now 100% completely confirmed town. If Antihero is last scum, he came into the game and cleared two townies. That seems unlikely to me.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:54 am

In post 5156, waynegg wrote:And a cop with gf just wifom'd the town, so I can see a mod wifoming the scum. Like I said, Nacho can be lynched without. E.

Please promise to vote BRO if I die and flip town.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:58 am

In post 5161, waynegg wrote:Why are we on you and not FTL?

Because FTL is also town confirmed to be targetting TF when he said he investigated him.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:00 am

In post 5161, waynegg wrote:Scum clear town all the time. I've never been in or read a game where they didn't.

Town clear town more often.
In Cash Cabd, I as miller doctor cleared SoS and Rail Tracer as town. Rail Tracer cleared beastcharizard as town. Scum cleared no one.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:00 am

In post 5162, BROseidon wrote:That anyone thought ever that Mala is town is ridiculous.

mollie is more familiar with her than you and confirmed town
guess it wasn't so ridiculous

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:01 am

In post 5167, BROseidon wrote:pedit: Oh yes, one example of when town cleared town more than scum cleared town

do you really need more?

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:02 am

In post 5167, BROseidon wrote:I never said in absolutes that I'd lynch Anti

but you said you would
all because "his claim isn't enough to clear him as town". how the hell not?

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:08 am

In post 5173, BROseidon wrote:
In post 5169, Nachomamma8 wrote:do you really need more?
You don't seem to understand the burden of proof necessary to prove something. Try talking to some generative syntacticians about it...

do you really need more.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:10 am

In post 5174, waynegg wrote:Promise.

What kind of scum game is it that votes off his entire team?

I promise you that Antihero is town.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:10 am

In post 5183, BROseidon wrote:
In post 5181, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 5173, BROseidon wrote:
In post 5169, Nachomamma8 wrote:do you really need more?
You don't seem to understand the burden of proof necessary to prove something. Try talking to some generative syntacticians about it...
do you really need more.
Yes.

XENOBLADE - what scum tried clearing each other?
FIRE AND ICE - what scum tried clearing each other?

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:11 am

ummmmmmm
JOB PICK - what scum tried clearing each other?

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:14 am

In post 5175, BROseidon wrote:
In post 5170, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 5167, BROseidon wrote:I never said in absolutes that I'd lynch Anti
but you said you would
all because "his claim isn't enough to clear him as town". how the hell not?
Because scum don't *ever* fakeclaim.

Ever.

And they never set up their fakeclaims with crumbs.

It never happens.

Obviously.

what the literal hell is this
ANTIHERO
PLEASE READ THIS POST AND GIVE ME YOUR OPINION - TIA

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:17 am

In post 5179, BROseidon wrote:I like how Andy isn't voting for his friend-Nacho, and instead is voting for me despite Nacho being obvscum.

this is a hell of a misrep considering andy was tunneling the hell out of me yesterday

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:18 am

In post 5196, BROseidon wrote:Every scum in Xeno went along with your townblock because both teams had the majority of their members in it. Neither of us were aware of who the other team was at the time; I was only slightly suspicious of TD.

So from my perspective, in Xeno, I cleared 8, possibly 9 people by going along with your town block in exchange for protecting the townreads on myself, Rach, and Orc.

In jobpick you and kdub both cleared the fuck out of me day 1, and you were clearing MeowMix pretty constantly.

scum clearing each other w/roleclaims
try again

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:19 am

erm, scum clearing town w/roleclaims
you're right kdub and i cleared you because you were a power role; then we killed you. we cleared meowmix to frame him, then mislynched him. antihero completely 100% cleared two townies in a game where that could fuck him up thanks to poe

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:20 am

In post 5197, BROseidon wrote:The case on me is literally PoE + not wanting to lynch Nacho who is NOT PLAYING HIS TOWN GAME for NO DISCERNIBLE REASON.

poe is pretty awesome w/confirmed town in tow
i'm not playing my town game
i'm not playing my scum game
i'm playing... my game

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:20 am

In post 5202, BROseidon wrote:
In post 5200, Nachomamma8 wrote:scum clearing each other w/roleclaims
try again
Kuribo claimed masons with another scum once.

and he got fucked sideways because it was horribly bad

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:21 am

what's your rebuttal re: godfather?

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:25 am

In post 5209, BROseidon wrote:pedit2: I have 0 mod experience and have no idea how setups work.

then why wouldn't you listen to other people when they say "this is how setups work"?

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:25 am

do you think i'm using this speculation to protect my scumbuddy? because OH WAIT THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE AS FUCK

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:25 am

In post 5211, Antihero wrote:I suspect that I'm picking nacho over bro because I'm being suckered by bro's AtE... hm... that might be problematic...

i can yell at you if you want me to

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:34 am

In post 5218, BROseidon wrote:Wayne and I tend to think in similar ways. I just usually gate what I put down more because I realize that I have a tendency to come up with off-the-wall shit that's highly improbable.

BULLSHIT
YOU DON'T GET TOLD YOUR THEORY IS COMPLETELY FUCKING BATSHIT BY THE PERSON YOU SUSPECT AND YOU GO "OH I'M CRAZY TOO"
NO FUCK THAT SHIT

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:34 am

ANTIHERO FUCK THAT ATEING SCUMFUCK AND ======[]

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:35 am

BE VINDICATED THAT I WAS HERE
I WAS TOWN AND I KNEW YOU WERE TOWN
YOU KNOW THIS BECAUSE I DIDN'T BULLSHIT THE WHOLE "OH ANTIHERO IS TOTALLY NOT CONFIRMED TOWN" BUSINESS LIKE BRO IS DOING AND THEN PLEAD IGNORANCE OF SETUPS AND CRAZINESS

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:38 am

In post 5215, BROseidon wrote:For me to be scum, you'd not only have to accept that I bussed my whole team, but I bussed my whole team while ALL OF THEM WERE BUSSING ME, THEREBY BLOWING UP MY TEAM IN THE PROCESS.

WHY THE FUCK DID THE SCUMTEAM FALL DOWN LIKE A SACK OF BRICKS
BUSSING AND VT NIGHTKILLS
I HAVE EXTENSIVELY VOTED ALL SCUM IN THIS GAME
AND STILL BRO SOMEHOW THINKS THAT HIS SCUMVOTING MAKES HIM OBVIOUSLY TOWN?
FUCK NO FUCK NO FUCK NO

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:40 am

ANTIHERO GET YOUR ASS IN HERE AND VOTE BRO
YOU KNOW DEEP IN YOUR HEART IT'S THE COMPLETELY CORRECT DECISION

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:41 am

In post 5227, BROseidon wrote:Or I can just hammer Andy, which is a win-win for everyone.

AND NOW WHEN YOU START LOSING THIS 1V1 YOU START SQUIRMING
FUCK THAT, FACE ME LIKE THE BRAVE SCUMBAG I KNOW YOU ARE

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:44 am

In post 5226, waynegg wrote:TSS that only vengeful a on town? Perfect sense for town to not lynch.

he claimed supersaint at 14 people alive, which is literally "lynch me I'm a free lynch"
it would be the worst scum fakeclaim i've seen in my entire life.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:44 am

WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU SQUIRMING BRO

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:45 am

In post 5233, BROseidon wrote:pedit: I'm not going to let my ego and rage get in the way of playing effectively. Andy needs to get hammered eventually, and since your acolytes aren't going to lynch you over me, I'll take the hit and blow him up.

what is effective about lynching him today over tomorrow?

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:46 am

In post 5239, Andrius wrote:btw don't hammer until FTL gets in here and claims night action
it'd be silly not to wait

ftl claims vanilla result on bro: not an innocent, lynch anyways
ftl claims pr result on bro: guilty, lynch

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:47 am

you're trying to be reasonable because you're stalling like fuck
you realized the mislynch nacho route wasn't working, so now you're trying to get the andy mislynch

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:48 am

ANTIHERO
WHY AREN'T YOU VOTING BRO?

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:49 am

In post 5251, BROseidon wrote:...

You all are fucking morons.

i'm being more reasonable than you while i'm talking in all caps
this means you're probably scum

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:51 am

In post 5255, Andrius wrote:
In post 5252, Nachomamma8 wrote:ANTIHERO
WHY AREN'T YOU VOTING BRO?
wait for varsoon

varsoon will deliver the hammer

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:51 am

In post 5258, Antihero wrote:YOU MIGHT HAVE DANCED ALREADY, BUT I'M NOT FINISHED YET

let's slow down for a second. we're almost there... just have to suss out a few things.

what needs to be sussed out?

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:52 am

In post 5257, BROseidon wrote:I mix my being reasonable with being incredibly angry because everyone is being idiots.

because we're not clearing you for bussing?
because we're not attempting to lynch confirmed town?
because...?

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:54 am

In post 5262, waynegg wrote:He conditioned it with taking a townie with him if town hammered and leaving scum alive if scum hammered. That takes the incentive out of the town to lynch him.

10 alive.
Lynch Andy, hammered by town: 8 alive, scum kill makes 7.
Lynch, nightkill.
5
Lynch, nightkill.
3
Lynch
4 possible lynches total

Lynch, night kill: 8 alive
Lynch, nightkill: 6 alive
Lynch, nightkill: 4 alive
Lynch

4 possible lynches

his claim makes him literally a free lynch

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:54 am

In post 5264, BROseidon wrote:
In post 5261, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 5257, BROseidon wrote:I mix my being reasonable with being incredibly angry because everyone is being idiots.
because we're not clearing you for bussing?
because we're not attempting to lynch confirmed town?
because...?
Because anyone applying critical thinking would look at my actions and realize that they indicate no scum-interest.

this seems utterly vague and useless

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:55 am

i'm pissed because i'm sooooooo town and no one is seeing
everyone is stupid because i'm obviously and bleedingly town

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:56 am

In post 5263, Antihero wrote:there's some paranoia of trust fund and varsoon that I have to kill.

lynch bro
nacho hammers andrius
lynch trust fund
lynch varsoon

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:56 am

In post 5269, BROseidon wrote:And we aren't taking the free lynch to confirm that it isn't a gambit because...

because it's a horribly retarded claim as scum and when we have very likely scum in our cozy group of two, we might as well purge the both of us first.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:57 am

BUT WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:57 am

In post 5261, Nachomamma8 wrote:because we're not clearing you for bussing?
because we're not attempting to lynch confirmed town?
because...?

which one of these two questions didn't cover your reasoning for being town.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:59 am

In post 5278, BROseidon wrote:Not having one of us hammer Andy today is a strictly inferior decision.

why?

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:00 am

In post 5278, BROseidon wrote:You still haven't articulated why scum would bus Rach over me on day 1.

you're the better player

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:00 am

In post 5278, BROseidon wrote:There is 0 cost to lynching Andy.

There is a potential gain.

what's the cost of waiting until tomorrow?

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:05 am

In post 5285, BROseidon wrote:execute same plan tomorrow.

I would be hammering Andrius tomorrow.
Both things have the same result.

In post 5285, BROseidon wrote:If Andy scum: Andy gets to live untouched.

Until tomorrow, when we lynch him.

The two things are completely equal.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:13 am

no one will renig.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:22 am

Andy is very likely town thanks to his claim and his play. BRO is not as likely town.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:18 pm

In post 5307, Andrius wrote:
vote: andrius

NO

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:20 pm

In post 5300, BROseidon wrote:
In post 5294, Nachomamma8 wrote:Andy is very likely town thanks to his claim and his play. BRO is not as likely town.
You've already given me enough to be incredibly insufferable in post game.

You don't want to give me more.

postgame's gonna be fun

In post 5314, Andrius wrote:im done
and once i die here
im leaving MS

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:21 pm

then let's get back to lynching him
he can cry all he wants but he's still gonna die

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:23 pm

In post 5322, Andrius wrote:AT LEAST IM LEAVING MS ON A HIGH NOTE RIGHT?
SELFLYNCH AS SUPERSAINT AND DONT EVEN KILL ANYONE?

no

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:23 pm

andy we have so much to live for together

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:28 pm

i can't wait

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:31 pm

i have no idea where the rage is coming from, bro.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:33 pm

as in my play today has been mainly focused on getting people off each other's throats. that requires an absolute fuck ton of herding and aggression. yes, I was a dick to you because I didn't want you squirming out of the way if scum and the townblock that can remain the townblock is cleared with role info.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:35 pm

I had absolutely no idea that you were an emotional person; you seemed calm in games, and I figured play today was more along the lines of "cheeky scumfuck" as opposed to incredibly angry town.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:39 pm

Most of my play yesterday was considering and nailing down possibilities. I've looked into the roleclaims earlier and they seem to check out.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:39 pm

In post 5352, BROseidon wrote:No, you bully Nacho into hammering Andy because THERE IS LITERALLY NOT REASON NOT TO.

YOU ARE ALL INTELLIGENT PEOPLE. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO RUN THIS COST-BENEFIT ANALYSIS.

This will happen, don't worry.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:42 pm

In post 5357, BROseidon wrote:A vanilla cop doesn't make sense as a scum role because...

A vanilla cop does make sense as a scum role. What doesn't make sense as scum is FTL being tracked to Trust Fund after he claimed one-shot scum vanillaizer; scum roles are used primarily as a counter of town roles, and so countering the town role of what's essentially vanilla is pretty fucking unlikely.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:43 pm

In post 5357, BROseidon wrote:TF not having fakeclaimed makes sense because...

That's a possibility included in the plan.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:47 pm

In post 5357, BROseidon wrote:You're not being paranoid enough if you're town. I'm pretty sure I've given my "treat the game probabilistically" speech before.

You can go round and round and round and round with the paranoia merry go-round but there needs to be a point where you stop being paranoid and stop moving forward because you've thought long enough and hard enough about the options. I got to that point where we could take care of 5/10 players, 3 of them are absolutely 100% town, waynegg is town beyond all reasonable doubt (and most of the unreasonable doubt as well), and Antihero has play and roleclaim to bring him into the town circle.

Pedit: Hence why Varsoon is the final lynch.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:55 pm

In post 5362, BROseidon wrote:Scum afraid of a fakeclaim? Especially after the Venmar WIFOM mess?

You're a better player than this if you're town.

The second point that makes this more unlikely is Venmar/Metal Sonic's chronic crumbing: they claimed at one point to "find your vanilla ice cream" which means that they were completely ready to claim their vanilla cop (role cop or whatever they-scum would be) status and have it guided on town on scummy players. This seemed like an unlikely move to me, thus they move down in scumminess.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:01 pm

If Antihero's investigate PM says "X is innocent", then he is informed of the redirect. If not, probably not.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:05 pm

In post 5351, Trust Fund wrote:Huh. Well,
if you're town and not hammertrolling,
I guess this is where we lynch nacho tomorrow?

this seemed off.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:12 pm

I know. I'm just looking at things now that you're town.

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:15 pm

One of Nacho/BRO
Remaining one hammers Andrius
Lynch TF

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:16 pm

In post 5374, Nachomamma8 wrote:One of Nacho/BRO
Remaining one hammers Andrius
Lynch TF
Lynch Varsoon

Nachomamma8 · Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:20 pm

Am I missing anything now?