Xenogears Mafia (Game Over)

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I reread our drunken convo and don't feel like I was talking to scum. If GiF has a different impression tomorrow or whenever he's back, we'll hash it out somehow.

why are you only bringing this up now

Because my brain is pretty much in gear again and I'm tired of waiting around to discuss with GiF.

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But "only bringing this up now" is a silly question given when the convo happened.

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I'm putting the vote back fery

VOTE: Andrius

And I'm taking it off again.

Unvote

k

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After all that effort to refine my read last night, I don't even get a hello.

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GiF and I don't want to lynch Rach today.

Vote: BRO

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Actually no it would be a hilarious plot twist if you guys argued for 75+ pages only to policy lynch the replacement

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Saki

Let's make it happen

Achievement Unlocked:

Late to the (RVS) party

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So why are some ppl calling muffin scum again?

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So why are some ppl calling muffin scum again?

so who do you have scum again other than bro?

We have players on a null/scum spectrum that we're not really willing to vote given what's currently in the thread. mala, andrius, nacho.

If Bro suddenly starts being town as fuck, mala would probably be our next pick atm. Or maybe we'd go back to andrius, but I don't really want to right now.

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Muttley's not winning our hearts so far though. :/

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I never townread you. (Fery saying that I townread you was the error on her part.)
We've been wafflin' on some of our reads, and fery convinced me enough to make my read on you null atm.

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Nacho

Why the bad vote on Rach

Probably because it's not such a bad vote

We think it is a bad vote. :/

I really don't like that there's so little synchronicity in our reads this game.

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:'(
why couldn't you be scum

I do not understand how you're seeing town in Mutley's post.

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His posts today look a little better. I hate the rach push. He has a lot more experiential meta with scum-Rach than I do, though, and I'm finding it difficult to map her recent activity level changes to the meta I do have. What I can map says town.

GiF and I both really dislike the Rach wagon.

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That was more about Nacho than Rach. I liked his interaction with Bro. That looked like town-Nacho to me.

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This head still doesn't like nacho, but slowly leaning that it's more being disappointed in nacho's play than actually scumreading him :\

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Delete 3 of Saki's useless posts and you get the page top!

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Willing to lynch mala/bro, but will reluctantly vote Andrius if that's how to consensus goes.

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how the

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Also fery is down for lynching useless people (You know who )

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This head still doesn't like nacho, but slowly leaning that it's more being disappointed in nacho's play than actually scumreading him :\

I'll swing back into the groove of things soon enough. I tried to do something different and draw negative attention early since a majority of this playerlist has a problem smoothly attacking me as scum but that didn't work how I hoped it would.

This explains a few things. Did doing this shine a light on anything alignment indicative?

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i don't like how his one liner and lurkish posts kind of mirror his scumgame from Xenoblade, and I definitely don't like how he loses most of his motivation to stay active and contribute after the pressure on him disappears.

ffery does this mirror your opinion of his scumplay?

Activity-wise, yes. But his reads in this game are flexible and his stances are more fluid. I think his activity is like this across the site right now.

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B&tB and SoS: Bro probably isn't happening today and you guys aren't doing much to change that. Mollie, you already said Rach is moving towards null--can that be talked into a vote? Fferry, are you still townreading Rach?

Nothing has changed for us since GiF posted this yesterday. On my own, I would probably be null-reading Rach. GiF has a townread and it makes sense to me. Her meta prior to knee injury isn't really applicable right now.

Willing to lynch mala/bro, but will reluctantly vote Andrius if that's how to consensus goes.

Also fery is down for lynching useless people (You know who )

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Ffery, mollie, talk to me about bro, if you want that to happen.

Hurts to think. ISO me? I'll answer questions but I'm really not up for freewheeling analysis today.

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Here are my posts about Bro:

Mac isn't a controversial read. Only you and TD are reading her as scum, and you're both wrong about it. If I need to go over why, I will later. Currently in the process of doing something else at the moment that requires much more of my attention.

As for FTL, the back-and-forth with the MS head is what gave me the town read, and again if I need to go into more detail, later.

...Ignores that I am also scumreading Mac.

The general ease with which people are handing out townreads is making me nervous, given that I abused the fuck out of that last game to coast to the win.

Now that I'm fully caught up, I would be down for wagoning Mac or Rach. I could easily want to wagon Mala depending on what she posts when she comes in.

VOTE: Mac

Everyone took meta from that game and used the shit out of it in their ongoings. This is just another ongoing.

I am not seeing players replaying their previous town games so far.

Elaborate on this point.

I'm thinking about day 1 and I'm not seeing a lot of parallels in reactions to the negative utility PGO claim vs the first game's miller claim.

MS, Varsoon, Cabd, Ghostlin, Majiffy, and Nacho's 1 substantive post. None of them look like they are trying to reprise how they played early in Xeno 1.

You could argue that mollie is, but it just looks like her usual town game to me so far.

This list? Mostly okay with it, I'm with giffy about skull. Nhammen/mala slot is something I'd like to sort myself, with you there. I've heard several other people call bro scum but not your reasonings yet I think, unless I missed it in my skim. Why?

My reasons are mostly tone/motivation related. He sounded uncomfortable and like he's trying too hard to acknowledge while distancing himself from his role in the first xeno game in his early posts. And I feel like he's overreacted a little here and there, including his reaction to my FoS, which generated a spread-out multi-post no u.

SoS hasn’t really been posting

I find this post slightly amusing for we're the second most posted player in this game.

You could ISO us and ctl-f and probably find what you are looking for. But, a quick summary goes like this

BRO - leaning scum. He looks really uncomfortable wearing the scum-win mantle, which could be coming from a townish place. But, I'm not seeing the well defined observations and really spot-on quote-and-call-out posts that I associate with his play. Everything is kind of mushy and even inaccurate (e.g., the comment about GiF/me not posting much).

Mastin - Null. I see why people are reading him as scum, but I'm not there right now. He looks like town having a bad hair day, basically, and I can think of a couple recent games where I really struggled to get a handle on the game on day 1 (and beyond). That's what I feel like I'm seeing with Mastin.

BnB - Town. Mollie is totally town. Majiffy's reads list looks town to me, and I liked the way he broke up the TD flash wagon.

TF - I'm very cautious about the Cabd head of this hydra (the one who's been most active. I think there have been 2-3 Syr posts, though his reads list shows that he's following along and discussing the game with Cabd). Earlier, when Cabd was actively reaching out for data - reads and impressions - I thought that looked pretty town. Now that he's in the mode of herding votes onto his preferred wagon(s) I'm a little paranoid.

GiF thinks Mala's aggressive, even angry at times, play looks town. I'm not there, not yet anyway.

Sorry for the confusion. That was about BRO.

I'm not sure that he would be less cautious as scum this game and more likely to miss things like that. What do you think of his push on you for a liar tell?

I feel like you're not really addressing the more substantive point there.

I thought it was pretty dumb. And I thought it was odd that he didn't push harder if he was serious about me dropping a liar tell.

You could ISO us and ctl-f and probably find what you are looking for. But, a quick summary goes like this

BRO - leaning scum. He looks really uncomfortable wearing the scum-win mantle, which could be coming from a townish place. But, I'm not seeing the well defined observations and really spot-on quote-and-call-out posts that I associate with his play. Everything is kind of mushy and even inaccurate (e.g., the comment about GiF/me not posting much).

Mastin - Null. I see why people are reading him as scum, but I'm not there right now. He looks like town having a bad hair day, basically, and I can think of a couple recent games where I really struggled to get a handle on the game on day 1 (and beyond). That's what I feel like I'm seeing with Mastin.

BnB - Town. Mollie is totally town. Majiffy's reads list looks town to me, and I liked the way he broke up the TD flash wagon.

TF - I'm very cautious about the Cabd head of this hydra (the one who's been most active. I think there have been 2-3 Syr posts, though his reads list shows that he's following along and discussing the game with Cabd). Earlier, when Cabd was actively reaching out for data - reads and impressions - I thought that looked pretty town. Now that he's in the mode of herding votes onto his preferred wagon(s) I'm a little paranoid.

GiF thinks Mala's aggressive, even angry at times, play looks town. I'm not there, not yet anyway.

BRO's the only one I didn't mention in my reads post, but I'm kind of on the same page. There's some warping of perceptions that are going on with his reads/posts that ring wrong to me. The words 'horribly inaccurate' spring to mind.

I understand why you're torn about Mastin from a certain perspective, but if you trust I'm town(ish), trust me on my Mastin read.

Alright. Yeah, TF rang the wrong bells with his interaction with Skull that I will continue to bore this game to fucking death with. There's getting votes and then there's letting players get away with crap they shouldn't.

GiF: I think Mala's aggressive, angry play seems to be coming from the perspective of hyper-defensiveness you can see in certain scum.

I can see where you're coming from. I understand your reads, and I think we're close enough to the same page I don't think we'd be shouting each other down.

Our mala read is evolving. So is our rach read.

nick is in our kinda town pile. I may be making a really really thin soup from the newbie game we played together a while back, but if I have enough data to cobble together a sketchy model I like to try, and like to see if it turns out to be useful.

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One thing that GiF and I have talked about but I'm not sure made it into the thread is BRO's trajectory stuff on TD. He claimed TD had good trajectory on Mac, but his posts in response to Nacho pushing him for details was a case on Mac, not really much about how TD's read on Mac progressed.

It looked kinda like he overstated TD's progression and rather than acknowledging that, built up reasons why a vote on Mac at that point would be justified.

That could be a pretty uncharitable characterization on my part, but I think Nacho was also dissatisfied with that convo.

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Scum Readings (8): NS, BatB

Um

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Oh.
That makes sense now.

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Not.

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1) We're huge sucker for AtE
2) fery thinks that andy truly believes that nacho reading him town makes him town, which fery had a suspicion on.

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She seems to.
She'll answer it when she drops by.

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1) We're huge sucker for AtE
2) fery thinks that andy truly believes that nacho reading him town makes him town, which fery had a suspicion on.

You two have thrown out the scenario of {nacho, andy} scumteam?

Nacho is looking more towni to me the last couple of days. It still worries me that our reads are not all that well aligned.

With Andy, I tried following a couple lines of inquiry while suspending dsbelief a little. The echos I got back seemed irritably townish, not guarded.

It's tenuous. And I want to see more posts from him. But, it moved him out of my scum pile.

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Is rach prodded yet?

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Your advice is noted.

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We took some time discussing about nick tonight.
We still like him as town.

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VOTE: Andy

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We took some time discussing about nick tonight.
We still like him as town.

To elaborate, we went through his ISO together. We agreed that many of his posts showed a town mindset. We also agreed that his reads list, though in our opinion objectively bad, makes sense from his perspective (the perspective we discern from his earlier posts).

So, we're not voting him today.

We're not thrilled with an Andy compromise vote, but rach is a stronger town read.

We would be a lot happier if BRO, Mutley or mala were picking up votes. Well, maybe not mala since she's on v/la.

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I fucking hate this wagon.

Can we please lynch BRO? Or Mutley?

Saki's probtown but he's being utterly worthless and I'd vote him today just to save a vig the effort.

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Mutley replaced into a low-information slot and has continued to provide low information. He will continue to do that as long as he can get away with it.

I feel like I've re-explained the BRO case over and over again. Nobody has refuted it. Some people have even agreed that he doesn't look good. And now, you can compare the level of effort he's willing to put into catching up on 40 pages to the level of effort that Andy claims to be putting forth.

I could be making too much of personal tendencies here, but I know how painful it is to catch up on 30-40 pages as scum and how very easy it is to whirl though that many pages as town.

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Neither of those lynches have any traction because people are being dumb.

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I'm not pushing a policy lynch.

Bro, Mutley and mara all three are in our scum pile. And I vastly prefer to lynch from that pile rather than my null or town piles.

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Mutley has posted absolutely nothing that has given me the slightest town vibe. Comparing this game to his MYLO game is really stark. He trolled in that game but was still very obviously town. Not so here.

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If I was gonna push a policy lynch on you, I would've done so earlier, and I'm pretty sure it would've happened.

P-Edit: vigging an anti-town player helps toward town wincon!

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policy shot*
or whatever

killing off a prob-town player is obviously within your wincon

stop being derp town and I won't worry so much about your being alive near LYLO.

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Shoot a townie off policy

and if I'm town I'll obviously never stop being anti-town

You make your own case for being vigged, then.

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Unvote

Vote: BRO

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Andy, I am not going to respond to the stuff from earlier in the game. Stance changed, reads refined, etc.

I think one of the things that caused both GiF and me to read you as scum initially was the anger in your early posts. It didn't seem to have any sort of grounding or basis in the posts you were responding to. But it did remind me of your posts in the MYLO game.

This:

I have the impression that most of the emotional content of his posts is a sort of over the top role play

Was about the anger, which seems over the top.

To which you reply...

the fuck
is this
google translate does not recognize "layman's terms" as a language

Which helps clarify nothing.

fferymollie: "andy scum for AAA because we are the best at finding scum with AAA"
nacho: "i am actually the best reader of andy and because of AAA he is town"
fferymollie: "no you are wrong even though we acknowledge your experience with andy is far greater than our own"

how is that ok

seriously
why am i still playing this game
why
why the fuck did you not just lynch me while i was at edmeet

Because I eventually got something resembling a town read on Nacho. And I'm listening to him about you.

Syr's being all town and stuff. Cabd gets a free ride unless my town read on Syr goes sour. Until day 3, anyway.

no bad free rides are bad

They have the same role pm. I'm pretty much always beyond paranoid about Cabd. But, I think I can read Syr. And this looks like town-Syr.

Also, I dunno man. If you are town then some of your reads are just horrible this time.

I'm willing to admit that my reads may be wrong. But not all of them.
So must you.

Ok.

I don't guess this is such a great time to work through some of what made your reads look awful to me, but there's a convo between nacho and me about some of it. If you iso him later it shouldn't be too hard to find most of it.

hahahahaha

my reads are my reads
and im willing to let nacho handle the women because the more I stare at them the less sense things make and PTS is definitely happening

Wait for it...

So, Nacho reading you as town means I should pull my head out of my butt and do the same, I guess?

Yes. Simple as that.

Wait for it...

What part of Nacho reading GiF/me as town in this game is less compelling than him reading you as town?

Because we're in different tiers.

I'd say fuck no but I don't even know what this means.

Undoubtedly you're more experienced at MS mafia than GiF or I am. If that's what you are talking about then we should be EASIER for Nacho to read than you are. So what are you trying to get at here?

I reread our drunken convo and don't feel like I was talking to scum. If GiF has a different impression tomorrow or whenever he's back, we'll hash it out somehow.

you weren't
but its too late

What does this mean?

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Hopefully translation was achieved.

The part I don't get is "It's too late".

I'm limited to phoneposting for the next several hours.

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I'm here. I don't want to vote you.

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difficult is my middle name.

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I mean I guess we could just lynch RM since she is actually scum.
Its not like I'm opposed to that happening.

I don't want to lynch her either. :/

predit: idk ffery. sometimes I want to strangle you. sometimes I want to get to know you better.

If it's any comfort, I'm not actively trying to be annoying.

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bleh
UNVOTE:

I don't care who gets lynched I want hammer

This is why you can't put someone at L-1 and ask them to claim when Saki is playing and doesn't already have a vote on that wagon. Doesn't matter what his read of the L-1 player is.

Don't lose track of that guys.

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I didn't say Saki's scum. We had a townread of thezmon and Saki's in that slot now.

Andy, GiF and I will talk more about Rach when he's online again.

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I want to talk to GiF about rach's yesterday posts.

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Hope so.

I thought there was more to your staying away Rach than our read. I thought you might have picked up on the vibe we did. And that makes me wonder about the validity of the vibe.

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^^ away from Rach

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I good with her lynch i think. even if she is town her wagon will provide a lot of info.

And we're about to head towards that direction.
Wait for ferypost

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GiFsynch achieved.

We'll compromise on a Rach lynch if the wagon won't shift.

GiF and I think that she's not playing rach-scum as GiF saw her in newbie 1395 and ETL's mini, but she's not playing rach-town that we've both seen in borkgame and in my open game. borkgame was a while back and I haven't tried to hold her to non-sprained-knee meta. But the open game just finished a week or so ago and that meta is relevant.

We want agreement that BRO will be up for serious lynch consideration tomorrow.

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We have a little over 21 hours right now.

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BRO needs rope. End of story.

He's looked uncomfortable as fuck when has posted, and he's coasting bigtime in this game while posting elsewhere on the site since coming back from v/la.

If town lets him coast another game day you guys will never hear the end of it. Bad enough he's getting away with it today.

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VOTE: Rach

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I think that is L-2.

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And there goes half my reason for helping an Andy lynch right over to Rach.

VOTE: Rach

If I may, though, what caused the change of heart?

Did you read 2312 and 2321 on the previous page?

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[7] RachMarie (zMuffinMan, Desperado, Nachomamma8, Ghostlin, BeautyAndTheBeast, Aj The Epic, Sound of Silence)

Not L-1.

Yours is the 8th vote?

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Ok, so that's L-2?

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If it's L-2 then I suggest not adding a vote unless you are happy for Saki to hammer.

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google translate actually recognizes that as English.

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Not voting nick.

Would be happy to see BRO or mutley lynched.

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VOTE: rach

If this doesn't get flashlynched tomorrow I will be greatly disappointed.
Also this head is in limited access until Wednesday.

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EDIT
DELETE
Reads:

Town
FTL
notscience
BnB
Venmar
Trust Fund
TD
Ghostlin
Aj The Epic
zMuffinMan
Bert/znon/Saki
Desperado
nickthename
Rach

Null
Andrius (fery have him as town I think)
Nachomamma (I think fery have him as leaning town)
mastin2
Mac

Scum
nhammen/Mala
BROseidon
skull/mutley

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Um stupid iPod
That edit delete thing is from QT. don't mind it.