Mini 1489 - VisCon: Murder at Wingate Mansion [Game Over]

[Bert]

tell me how you are doing protown things right now

if so explain what those things are

also why are you ignoring me for the most part

thsi does not feel like you

you arent making amends in case you go tonight

do you realize that

why is Shadoweh confirmed scum

[Bert]

you will not

i repeat you will not, ever, ever, ever

use your actions in knocking down one scum who isn't a guaranteed "scum"

that can be used for towncred

that does not make you immune to keeping on doing pro-town things

you have started acting all weird

pinging me gut, <3

[Bert]

also your reluctance to work with tammy despite her reaching out to you multiple times is very staggeringly scummy, so PLEASE WORK WITH TAMMY AND COMMENT AS MUCH AS YOU CAN

/done rant <3

Love, BERT

[Bert]

why aren't we lynching matt today

my gut hates him

with rowdy, dowdy, dowdy passion

gut scumread central

are you his scumbuddy, Nacho love?

[Bert]

yeah, that's true

shadoweh is not the type to be all calm and go boohoo im gonna cry in a corner and not talk to yall anymore

he is more of an instigator so yes you get +1 for that

um no you should be instigating things, nacho

what is with your vibe this game

what's up with that

also, read on Matt?

Vote: projectmatt

Work with Tammy please, Nacho, if you're town (doubt it unless Shadoweh flips scum too aligned with DEATH). Then I may reconsider my love not be brainwashed to the devil <3

[Bert]

My gut just hates all of his posts since replacing in

Maybe Mara can poison his soul

Why do you think Inte-lurker is worth a lynch today

[Bert]

OK

I don't have much power to get him lynched, or the means

you do, if you're town, or if you're scum and want yuor budddy lynched or something

so like

just letting you know, love

he pinging me gut with all his tone/words/posts

I want hiim to eat rope soon

[Bert]

Actually in the last page or two I'm reconsidering my Nacho scumread. I'm not done prodding him yet, though.

Your defenses don't look very good. They're really just deflecting back at Nacho in a really gut-scummy accusatory tone.

[Bert]

well i suppose i can see why you guys are angry at me

You don't care about the game...

I'm like conf town, how can people say that I am still suspicious. Look at desps interactions with me.

Yeah...no.

[Bert]

How about make some cases for yourself

because so far you aren't really doing anything today

asking for an opportunity to defend makes me feel really weird about you

would you like to start some offense

gogogogo

[Bert]

If you wanna go meta-diving since you're a metagirl sweetheart, you can look at Mini 1462 and Open 507, my scum games...

----->>>

[Bert]

That's part of why I called BS when you all were going "my scum game is a far cry from my town game."

Like, if yours is a far cry, then I don't know what mine is then...

[Bert]

I'm not worried about you this game though, at least not yet it's still only day two my paranoia alert button doesn't go off until day four usually and hopefully this game will be over by then or I'll be dead anyway.

Yes, ma'am, I totally understand.

*nods*

Spoiler:

[Bert]

I think he read what we have been saying in the past 1-2 pages, as he quoted 1671

and at this point it's moot as he will just manipulate what Empire discovered via meta to his advantage

[Bert]

VOTE: Inte

[Bert]

That's lynch -1.

Haven't been able to be as active as I'm accustomed to being. That'll change this weekend, if the day is still going Friday night.

[Bert]

unvote

[Bert]

Mara, today started with me thinking Desp was an SK

Please, Nacho has discussed with me how bussing can make him looking beautiful the next day as scum

Please don't put him as town just for that, keep feeling him out

Shoe vs. Desp is like Lurker Central vs. Enigma

[Bert]

Gut feelings had me feeling terrible about Nacho for most of today, until the latter stages

I still don't completely trust him, but he is looking better for the most part lately

[Bert]

Him going with my Matt read felt pretty town, tbh

he wasn't paying much attention to Matt until I kept pleading to him about my gut read on Matt

[Bert]

Yeah, the flip will give us info

holding off on nacho is fine by me

that Desperado/SK-or-scum business threw me off

gave me some bad feelings of multiball for a few days there

[Bert]

inte's apathy about being lynched seems town tbh, especially in comparison to stuff like:

There hasn't been a single bit of logic that could feasibly support a vote on me and I think it's hysterical.

Vote: projectmatt

Nacho, come back to this lovely wagon? Let's be stubborn and ask others to join in...

if you join, there's 4, and we just need 2 more

[Bert]

Reminds me of goodmorning-scum in 514 masons and monks...

"you've got no case, you've got no case, this is all BS *rant continues*"

[Bert]

Nacho, why inte over matt

[Bert]

bert it's time to start clearing out suspects

Yeah, but that's contingent on that neighborhood being "clear" as they say

do you really think inte is likely to flip scum

just for the sake of "clearing out [lurker] suspects" isn't enough at this point, otherwise Shoe would have died long ago

[Bert]

Buncha teases. Why would you run someone up to L-1 when you all think I'm going to flip scum already? You could put it back, I've never gotten to do one of those quickhammer troll posts like the normal people get. God, none of you ever let me have any fun! You won't even try to compose gauche poetry for me! WHEN I'M SCUM YOU'RE THE FIRST ONE I'LL KILL TAMMY. >8(

At the time of this post, I had not yet unvoted, so YES

Inte was at lynch -1 at this point

someone feel free to correct me if I am wrong

[Bert]

VOTE: Inte

unvote

WAIT never mind

NACHO

Shadoweh did not post between my vote and unvote...

[Bert]

if you ever put it down
seriously put the vote down on inte
shadoweh had the opportunity to quickhammer and didn't
this means either:
A) Shadoweh is town and thus inte is definitely scum
B) Shadoweh is scum and didn't want to quickhammer her buddy
C) Shadoweh is scum but both inte/matt are scum so she wanted the matt mislynch if she could grab it

NO

you don't know if she/he was there or not

NO

and hey

hey now

do not ruin Empire's slow vibe he's got goin on

his methodicalness

love, Bert

[Bert]

YOU have the opportunity to lynch Matt if you choose. Your moving over means lynch -1 automatically for Matt

it's 4 to 3 right now, 4 for matt 3 for inte

we don't know if Mara's second poisoning will go through.

[Bert]

what if she's roleblocked or there's an antidote

we have to prepare in case things don't go as planned

if Shadoweh doesn't die, for some odd reason tonight

we don't know what's going on

was Desp an SK or not

so many lingering questions

[Bert]

BERT
IF WE LYNCH INTE, MATT WILL BE POISONED
IF WE LYNCH MATT, INTE WILL BE POISONED

HEY GUESS WHO IS CLOSER TO BEING LYNCHED RIGHT NOW

[Bert]

Why on earth would Mara's second poisoning not go through?

there might be a roleblocker????

or something like that in a theme game?

[Bert]

Inte/Purple/Nacho/Bert

reads in order from least to most townie

go.

and say why.

[Bert]

OR WE'LL JUST LYNCH THEM TOMORROW

YOU WON'T BE HERE TOMORROW POSSIBLY

DID YOU THINK OF THAT

THERE MAY NOT BE ENOUGH FIREPOWER FOR SUCH A WAGON TO GO THROUGH

[Bert]

Wait, Tammy claimed Doc or something like that, so...

uh oh shoot we need Tammy to give lots and lots of reads and stoofs

It's a shame the kill tonight probably won't reflect much other than PR hunting

[Bert]

Generic I read as town because of his breakdown on D1 and almost-modkill, but realistically that should only clear someone for a day. Nacho do you agree with that? think SunnyDays/MattP Mini 1460

Tammy feels very town, not confident in reading her

Empire feels town, again not that confident in reading Tammy/Empire

Nacho starting to lean towards town if Desp was Mafia (not SK)

Purple/Inte are just annoyingly quiet (the opposite of me who is annoyingly talkative)

I actually think Purple is worse than Inte, fwiw

Mara I feel very null about, but the PR claim *shrug*

qwints - didn't like his/her predecessor, but he/she feels like Scumhunter's Speed qwints, Nacho, tend to think town

matt - gut doesn't like you, and you haven't spoken your reads with much conviction. And this thing that there's no logic to the cases on you is not what I Expected from you. I expect you to keep doing your own thing, keep giving us cases to look at. Not just waste posts on a lousy defense that says "(with attitude) you've got nothing on me, this is ridiculous."

[Bert]

commit to a lynch and get no with it, matt, is what I'm saying. you didn't even put your reads in order from most to least townie.

[Bert]

Hmm.. OK I like the past few post reactions actually, Empire you better be right about him reacting this way in your past game

vote: inte

You win, Nacho

[Bert]

Matt (if town) is at least useful or likely to give us more posts to look at tomorrow (poisoning or not withstanding), as opposed to Inte/Shoe lurkerhood

[Bert]

and no, my vote is not moving till deadline. I'm gonna shuddup now and disappear for the rest of the day.

You're welcome!

[Bert]

You worry me a lot bert.

1) read my old games and then decide if I'm being genuine OR

2) go with what others are reading me as - there are quite a few here with lots of experience with me

[Bert]

*disappears back into hole* P.S. links I will give you if you want and have time. Especially since you don't trust Nacho, and therefore his read does not hold much weight with you

[Bert]

^scum flailing

let it be known

was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but I won't anymore

you still have no overall opinion about the game but sling mud at Nacho and myself, and you have been in this game how long now??? It's not like you truly have no time to play in this game.

and I'm back because I'm defending, not because I want to talk.

You just seem to latch on to people, gain their trust and steer their lynch, then go and throw suspicion on people the moment they aren't sheeping you... It is a real concern.

And forcing your meta apon me to form my opinion is not winning back this concern...

The feeling is mutual. I recognize what your saying and that's actually pretty valid paranoia. The feeling is mutual, by the way, because I'm worried as hell about you (I don't remember right now which neighborhood you're in, but not the "cleared" one people are talking about if I recall correctly).

That type of "almost mod-kill" and blow-up D1 should not clear you for the rest of the game. Just laying it out there. You might be scum. You are not conftown by any stretch. I just watched one game end where a vastly experienced player played on an alt and pretended to be a newb who misread his Vanilla townie PM and said it out loud like a true newb. Your behavior D1 may not have seemed appropriate for the game or for a scum player, but I will not discount you as possible scum. I'm judging you on your play D2 now. D1 is gone, and you do not get bonus points for D1.

[Bert]

Tammy feels very town, not confident in reading her

Empire feels town, again not that confident in reading Tammy/Empire

Nacho starting to lean towards town if Desp was Mafia (not SK)

Purple/Inte are just annoyingly quiet (the opposite of me who is annoyingly talkative)

I actually think Purple is worse than Inte, fwiw

Mara I feel very null about, but the PR claim *shrug*

qwints - didn't like his/her predecessor, but he/she feels like Scumhunter's Speed qwints, Nacho, tend to think town

matt - gut doesn't like you, and you haven't spoken your reads with much conviction. And this thing that there's no logic to the cases on you is not what I Expected from you. I expect you to keep doing your own thing, keep giving us cases to look at. Not just waste posts on a lousy defense that says "(with attitude) you've got nothing on me, this is ridiculous."

Let me expand on this.

Purple kind of disappeared today and is generally avoiding this game. Doesn't make sense to me, especially from a town standpoint for Mutley.

Inte barely comments at all throughout the day, and buys time until near deadline to throw some random accusations around about TWO people, without commenting about anyone else or showing that he/she knows what's going on in the game.

Matt - actually looks better gut-wise with the last few responses, enough for me to want him to live today for sure - that lurker duo on the other hand can just die, because we aren't getting anything from them anytime soon by the way things are going

Nacho - if it weren't for the Desperado lynch, I'd be very paranoid about him. I still am (at times I think he is town, at times I think he is scum, and then I assure myself that the Desperado lynch was orchestrated by Nacho, but then I realize that he is very manipulative as scum and will buss to look beautiful), but I'm not willing to risk being wrong about that on D2 with a few other fish in the sea that look so much worse

qwints - is lovers, right? so no point in discussing him/her. was my biggest scumread after re-skimming N1. His play has seemed on par with that where I scum-read him when he was town in Scumhunter's Speed. Lurky, votes without much reason, etc. etc., whereas his scum game I read was nothing alike...much more manipulative, talkative, articulate... that's the impression I get

Tammy - town especially with the doctor/watcher claim, I (sorry) expect her to die soon

Mara - poisoner is a risky thing to out as :/ had her as null going into today, still null and I dont'feel great about her but she's a claimed PR

Empire - *seems* town but I'm not thrilled with how aggressive he has been. Not as decisive as I have liked, and has generally waited till the deadline on BOTH days to lay down a definitive vote that "won't move" Therefore, very much null-town

THAT is where I stand.

[Bert]

EBWOP: I forgot about Shadoweh and Generic

Shadoweh doesn't worry me since she's "dead" or so is expected to die, just want to see her flip for info

Generic - is confusing and, much like the blacklist towntell of Mutley on D1, he is up for debate tomorrow. As is Shoe. No free passes, buddy.

Town b/c claim: <Mara, qwints, Tammy>

Confused about my read: <Empire, Nacho, Generic>

Leaning scum but not as strongly as before: <projectmatt>

Scumspect pool for D2: <Inte, Shoe>

Reading as scum, but doesn't matter anymore: <Shadoweh>

Also, I have weird feelings about Garantula still, and that does factor into my read on Matt.

But yeah, Empire Nacho and Generic confuse me and I think that's what we HAVE to discuss once the two lurker peoples are either dead or near-dead. Leavnig one alive is fine, but two is UGH no. thanks

[Bert]

I'm not even trying to stop my lynch but go ahead make it easier for you to get lynched

HAHAHA

As if I have problems getting lynched, I get lynched rather easily actually

I'm not worried about myself getting easily lynched, but at least I'm giving reads and trying to weasel out of it without a few one-liners and ZERO game-related comments

How many comments have you managed to provide today that might help us figure you out or vice versa?

I can't remember a single one or anything that's meaningful or substantiated.

What you CAN do in the remaining time is just SKIM or at least get a feel for people and tell us who you think pings your scumdar, aside from me and Nacho.

Come on dude

[Bert]

Being cheeky and uncooperative isn't helping you any

You know that, right?

*shrug*

If you were town, you'd be helping us sort people out

*shakes head*

[Bert]

^that was to Inte, who just told me to "f off"

Lol simul post

[Bert]

Right but I think the idea is that if he were scum why would he make those string of posts?

WIFOM?

[Bert]

EBWOP: And to misdirect the lynch

[Bert]

Hello

Hope you're feeling better!

I check the deadline before midnight each day

Lol

[Bert]

Who do u want dead today?

[Bert]

Welcome back man

Yeah same here, inte's recent posts don't look good

[Bert]

unvote

No troll hammers

[Bert]

I'm here until deadline...

I'm happy to be the theoretical hammer vote... consider my vote cast (even though it's technically not)

[Bert]

Don't hate <33333333333333

helping pops put together an exercise bike and I'm AFK but definitely here until the afternoon

let's write poetry

let me put my thinking caps on

gonna torture yall with my awful prose-sounding poetry until you end the day

how about that

[Bert]

Spoiler:

^That is Shadoweh throughout today, since she figured out she was poisoned

[Bert]

Valiantly, I say unto thee -

Shall the scum suffer defeat?

I solemnly declare a most dreadful day -

if we refuse to hang Inte!

brilliant, sir

brilliant

BRAVO

[Bert]

Empire, I challenge you to do better!

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHH

OOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHH

Let's see if Empire chickens out!

bawk bawk bawk

Spoiler:

[Bert]

Inte and Shadoweh passed on ze torch,

to womanizer Nacho Mamma aka Tammy's star pupil.

but it wasn't to be,

for Nacho is a tease.

Nacho swallowed steak and potatoes,

with lots and lots of alcohol,

and out of his stomach sprouted a womanized Bert!

but Bert was no man!

Bert was a cannibal...

this cheeky sod named Bert buried the hatchet on Nacho and his fellow crusaders Shadoweh and inte,

Then the Empire brought on the gasoline,

As Tammy Tam hovered over the remains of the three fallen warriors,

Tammy Tam negotiated peace for the rest of the town,

the night went on until Tammy Tam decided to eat some waffles with lots of chocolate chips.

/the end

[Bert]

if anyone wants to place a vote on inte,

I will do the honors

<3

Still waiting...

*grabs microphone*


Testing...3...2...1

[Bert]

Hello my ninjas.

<3

Good morning Empire and Tammy!!!!!!

You guys lived to write more poetry.

Tammy, I nominate you for Poet Laureate (sp?)

[Bert]

Well, Shadoweh's flip explains why his play was so anti-town on D1 and so troll-ish D2. He faked anger and vendetta-type emotions in his posts to disguise his scumminess during his accusations against me, I guess?

It was hard for me to see through his posts and find any semblance of town. Nacho, I was really suspicious of you when your read on Shadoweh changed from town to scum on him D2. If you're town, sorry for doubting you. I think you're town.

[Bert]

Hope Tammy's feeling better today. It's great to see her alive and kickin'!

NACHO, YOU SMUG TROLL <3

What are y'all waitin' for?

I sense that we are waiting for the whole crew to show up, and then maybe eventually we proceed to discussing (lack of) NKA? Suggesting it might bring me flak for WIFOM purposes, but I just came out and said it.

Take that!

And of course, the poisoner's standpoint theories.

[Bert]

Day 2

It is now day 2.

Llamarble has been

killed

.

Llamarble was

Aetis

, aligned with

Town

.

Day 3

It is now day 3.

No one has been

killed

.

@Tammy

[Bert]

@Tammy: Yup, there are notable differences between my town/scum games, but it's a work in progress! My towngame, on the other hand, I am more dissatisfied with because I do mostly skimming and am still way more fluffy and solely gut-oriented than I'd like to be. You guys get to decide how genuine I'm being and make your read work. Think Generic will be more paranoid about me after you brought that up hehe...

@Nacho: I think you're town this game. Desperado being an SK (that suggestion) had me squirming regarding my read on you.

Nacho, who do you think the last scum is?

And is it optimal that we hunt today under the assumption that the poisoned is going to flip town??

[Bert]

EBWOP: I'm not so sure about Matt being scum anymore, but I'm reading nearly everyone else as town. But something did feel off gut-wise when I was evaluating him during the night.

Shoe is so confusingly lurky. I'm wary about seeing another "inte" type death. *sigh*

Town: <Mara + qwints (lovers), Generic, Nacho, Tammy>

Probably Town, but a tier below the aforementioned: <Empire>

Scumspects: <projectmatt (weak), Shoe (med)>

[Bert]

Are you going to withhold your protect target (or lack of target) - since you're doc/watcher?

[Bert]

Wow it just doesn't add up that Desp claimed April Wingate when his partner was June Wingate

My first thought after the flip was "Desp might have been a traitor?"

[Bert]

Are you going to withhold your protect target (or lack of target) - since you're doc/watcher?

Why have lack of target here?

I am under the impression that doctor/watcher - you get to choose one option only, much like JOAT?

[Bert]

Interesting. Never have seen such a role in-game.

I'd like to know if I'm poisoned so I can decide whether or not to spam the day with cryptic poetry.

I derive pleasure from reading Empire's reactions that come along with your poetry:

Valiantly, I say unto thee -

Shall the scum suffer defeat?

I solemnly declare a most dreadful day -

if we refuse to hang Inte!

bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt, laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame.

[Bert]

I see.

First question that pops up is what incentive there is to no-kill with so many players remaining - perhaps fear of being watched by you? This suggests (WIFOM, I know) that the remaining scum may be in one of the consensus townreads that may have needed protection? But then again, why not just kill you then if they're so scared.

[Bert]

Second WIFOM-y thought (if you want me to stop, just say it ha) is maybe it was an inactive who just doesn't care (aka Shoe) - although, I find that much more unlikely than the above.

OR,

there's an SK or other third-party remaining and both Death-aligned scum are dead, and therefore no factional kills remain? But then that doesn't explain the no kill either.

I've got nothin'

[Bert]

no kill probably because matt knew he was gonna be poisoned and he knew there was nothing he could do
#logic

You da man. Coming up with such far-fetched, brilliant theories while feeling ill. <3

[Bert]

Joined:Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:58 am
Last visited:Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:26 am

^The Purple Shoe's profile

[Bert]

Well, FG might have wanted us to technically play the day out anyway, as the kill isn't official yet?

Yeah, I'm leaning towards Shoe too. I feel bad sometimes about lynching inactive lurkers (unreadable almost) to clear out suspects, but I don't really have any other reads that are strong enough to overtake that urge.

[Bert]

Vote: The Purple Shoe

Yup, Tammy's right, Mutters's last post was Sep. 12 (Thurs.), well before deadline - same goes for his activity. Along the same lines as Purple Shoe's (alt) last activity/posts.

[Bert]

EBWOP: IIRC, the blacklist "tell" got us off his back.

[Bert]

Ohey Mara...

who'd ya poison or is it a secret secret if you know what I mean?

P-edit: YOU POISONED SHOE???

=O

[Bert]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I think Mara may have gone 2 for 2 with the poisons.

Aww shucks, I wanted to read more cryptic poetry.

[Bert]

It's Purple. Only way the no kill makes sense, given his inactivity since last Thursday/Friday.

Night began Saturday night EST.

[Bert]

Vote: Projectmatt

Mara, that's how I felt about Tammy when I entered this game.

I had her as towntowntowntown in real time, up until the endgame of Stacking the Deck.

[Bert]

Okay. I'm on my phone, though.

[Bert]

My scum game is very much a work in progress.

In 1482, I took a step forward from 1462 in meshing my scum and town games together so the difference is minimized where possible. Still a longggg way to go until it's hard to read me

It's only a matter of time until you read me more comfortably and spot my scum game better.

[Bert]

I even said I was dying in your towniness

Everyone thought I was town except Cabd who had spoilers on Day 2 or 3, and eventually in-game Serra and FG caught on as the players alive dwindled.

So My point is Im very readable. It's just my scum game has a limited sample size of four, and it's still evolving. Trust me.

I'm glad I'm not poisoned!!!

[Bert]

Lynch me then, Nacho.

Quicklynch.

Game will be over since Shoe's poisoned.

[Bert]

Gogogogogogo

[Bert]

That was all genuine FYI

[Bert]

Hahahahaha nice BS case

Love it. Oddly, I feel nothing because Shoe's poisoned so I am not worried about a thing, baby.

No way to quote what you said since Im on my phone.

[Bert]

Haha, dude, Id hate to have been you in Newbie 1391

Painnnn my eyes

7 days!!!'nn

[Bert]

You need some R&R man

Some rest, recharging, all that good stuff

I think you got sick and you're feeling dizzy

Are you sure youre okay, love

Because that case was so muddy with muddy mayhem

Like muddy fo sho

[Bert]

Cuz of his inactivity since Thurs, only way to explain a no-kill with a claimed watcher/doc alive

And a poisoner town lover duo

It's like adding 2 + 2

= 5

[Bert]

Man that case was so BS,

Man U letting em doubt me,

U been in 80% of my games, tons of baseline

I see what u did there, u tryin to sort me out, I ain't no fool

I ain't no fool in love

[Bert]

Should we break up...

Or should we make up.... *song plays*

I believe that children r out future....

[Bert]

Oh my god

I am gonna get lynched in all my games with Mara from now on

Man I am in some deep trouble lol

P-edit: Yes!! Nacho, Mara thinks we r scum so I said I'll talk to her in person since I'm not a good liar in person. Let the 93% nonverbal be exuded

[Bert]

Keeping Tammy amused and engaged is the #1 key to winning this game.

Therefore, we should prolong the day as long as she wishes.

Short, quick day cycles are not her thing.

Okay Ive been spamming people for an hour now and I need to sleep.

<3 feel better soon, scumbags!!! Ty for putting up with my nonsense!

[Bert]

I am gonna get lynched in all my games with Mara from now on

No, I am capable of coming down from a paranoia Run!

but honestly, I do think you could be scum and you're reaction to Nacho here looks like your endgame reaction to Serra

Poison me tonight then, if the game continues.

The ball is in your court...if you will be patient and understand that Shoe's death will likely end the game.

Mara what will you do when I flip town here

What happens to the paranoia

[Bert]

Generic,

Can't sleep tonight...still here...phone posting, please bear with me

1) Mara poisoned Shoe.

2) Tammy is a doc/watcher and can watch and protect at the same time. She saw nothing.

3) I would have killed Tammy because she's a protective PR. Then, next night, handle the town lovers.

[Bert]

Also, Mutley/Shoe has been inactive since Thursday/Friday, so I believe he wasn't here to make his kill, hence the no-kill.

I'm braindead.

[Bert]

You're town, and Shoe's scum

You were destined to die and then become famous posthumously...much like Shakespeare

they will appreciate your poetry more - see how ignored you are here?

[Bert]

unvote

I owe y'all after all the hammers I've done in the past to withhold my vote until I get back from grocery shopping.

Might as well let the poet get some last words in (and read us some poetry tsk tsk).

[Bert]

Vote: projectmatt

There you go, he's back at lynch -1

Happy now? <3

[Bert]

SOMEONE DO THE EVIL DEED

Put us out of this misery,

we have waited for pizza long enough,

to watch Matt be sandwiched between Nacho's two Mini Coopers,

it is time to watch Nacho chuckle as he eats Matt with his bare hands!!!

[Bert]

I arrogantly proclaim this a technicality lynch.

unvote

for two hours because you just produced some of your finest poetry yet.

Booyah!

[Bert]

I say unto thee -

Nacho's inherent feeling will be misery

In spite of his petulant front -

it is he - not I, who is ill with want!

This piece of BEAUTY would look great on Nacho's bedroom wall. I'll frame it for him.

[Bert]

Tammy, if I could give you my vote and make you a double-voter, I would.

I think we all should just hand over our votes to Tammy, so we can see how quickly she quick-lynches someone in a heartbeat!

[Bert]

I don't think you're scum,

but I enjoy watching you in crisis,

it helps you produce better poetry,

since like the 50% conscious/50% subconscious becomes 100% conscious,

and I like your 100% conscious effort.

You are producing your best stuff yet

[Bert]

If there was a game where everyone was required to speak only in cryptic poetry I would join it.

Great idea! You would kill it!

I'm not opposed to a no-lynch, but I do think a lynch today would be ideal so as to not be overconfident that a Shoe death means victory is assured.... geez, I am in rambling mode today =[

Looks like most of us agree that the martyr will be none other than MATT. Lucky you!

[Bert]

I WOULD NEVER HAVE GUESSED

CAN THIS BE TRUE

WILL WE ALWAYS RUE THIS DAY?

[Bert]

Maybe we can lynch Nacho just for giggles.

[Bert]

Vote: no lynch

[Bert]

Wait we could lynch shoe again?? Double kill...

[Bert]

I don't really wanna be a martyr because I don't feel particularly suicidal.

Looks like you will be spared.

Lucky git!

[Bert]

I assume that June Wingate was the Godfather to counter Llama's investigative role, Death was a strongman w/last role being a ninja.
This is pretty much my worst case scenario.

Is this pure speculation about Llama's role? I'm missing something, so I raise my eyebrow at you.

[Bert]

NACHO DONE SEEN THE LIGHT

[Bert]

Generic could hammer the NL right now

Shoulda/coulda/woulda

[Bert]

You and Nacho have got it bad.

Hope it will be easier for you all to sleep and recover once scumShoe is put to rest.

Mutters may have site flaked...

[Bert]

Amen, Nacho.

Amen.

although if there is a day tomorrow it's liable i'll be flipping a shit

Please do. I'll bring popcorn and watch you evaporate.

[Bert]

I was expecting to get poisoned

Sigh.

Vote: matt

I was shocked to see Shoe's flip tbh, but gut feeling was Matt was scum on D2 before inte's lynch

That dissipated with the consolation that Shoe made sense as last scum

I expect to be poisoned tonight if both turn up town. In which case, you all have a tough decision because one of the universal townreads is scum

Which would be super confusing. Pretty sure Nacho's town. Never lynch him

/Phone post

[Bert]

Why would that make sense? Our town poisoner has more kills than the scum team?

Perhaps we've wiped out one team and the other is acting like a VIG?

Maybe. That crossed my mind to.

Yeah, the NK makes absolutely no sense. Maybe it's like that Skype game the other day where Nacho and I were scum, and Empire and ProHawk were third party lovers?

Wasn't Mara the moderator of that game?

[Bert]

That was 9 or 10 players though, so maybe because this is 13, so the third party lovers get a kill. This is pure speculation, guys, ignore me if I'm blabbering nonsense.

[Bert]

Unvote

Nacho come talk to us please

It might be 2 v 4 LYLO tomorrow with one poisoned (me) tomorrow if Mara/qwints is a 3rd party lover pair

Makes sense

No quicklynching
Yesterday's NL may have been a blessing in disguise

/phone post

[Bert]

Perhaps we've wiped out one team and the other is acting like a VIG?

This. I think you're right. You and Empire read each other well and also aren't a team, can't see either of you as scum.

I can't see Nacho as scum after his interactions yesterday especially, not to mention the Desperado-scum interactions.

Also, last scum not having a kill? Sounds pretty unlikely to me.

or last scum can't kill.

So effectively if I am poisoned tonight and Matt/Generic die today, then the remaining players are:

Empire + Tammy + Nacho vs. Mara + qwints

If you all are to go through with this matt lynch today, I will be here tomorrow, albeit poisoned, and will push push push for Mara/qwints to be lynched.

But after Con Mafia, I am increasingly wary of whether we lose today if we mislynch. That voice in the back of my head.

So, if I were to go with instinct here, I'd go ahead and lynch Mara/qwints because (1) I don't really think Matt is scum anymore, to be quite frank with you.

[Bert]

it's better to discuss the harder lynches.

Makes sense from a 3rd party perspective to leave the lynchbait alive to garner a mislynch, and kill one that would be extremely hard to push and get lynched (Generic).

Vote: Marangal

Going with gut here, and no I'm being stubborn and am not lynching Matt today. Either way, I am no longer in favor of any quick lynching at all. Never thought I'd hear myself say that.

Generic, I think you were right about Mara. Sorry for not listening to you.

[Bert]

Why would that make sense? Our town poisoner has more kills than the scum team?

Perhaps we've wiped out one team and the other is acting like a VIG?

Maybe. That crossed my mind to.

Yeah, the NK makes absolutely no sense. Maybe it's like that Skype game the other day where Nacho and I were scum, and Empire and ProHawk were third party lovers?

Wasn't Mara the moderator of that game?

Yes, she was. And the game before she was a sk who opened the game with talking about her confirmable role.

Nacho, please read this. Make sure you read this and talk to me/us about this.

No more of this quicklynch-Matt thing.

Because I am 100% positive Mara and qwints are 3rd party lovers.

[Bert]

Also, Tammy, think of 501 Stacking the Deck, Nacho you too.

I remember Tammy you made the comment (or was it Tierce) post-game where you said that Sakura made good, solid kill choices that eliminated top suspects (Mac, Ruffig, etc.). Sakura didn't try to be the hero and kill whoever she/he herself/himself suspected. Although scum weren't hit, the choices made sense.

Mara's here (Shoe, and then GENERIC (????)) especially after what we had advised her on...they do NOT make sense!

That is what I'm trying to point out.

[Bert]

TYPO: make sense for town* (sorry in a rush here before shopping time

[Bert]

We (Generic and I, and possibly Tammy (?)) suggesting the possibility/likelihood of you being a third-party lover pair, NOT mafia.

Therefore, that would be two lovers + two mafia + 9 town.

Again, nowhere did we say you two are mafia. I am of the belief that you two are third-party lovers.

Mara, read this:

Spoiler:

Why would that make sense? Our town poisoner has more kills than the scum team?

Perhaps we've wiped out one team and the other is acting like a VIG?

Maybe. That crossed my mind to.

Yeah, the NK makes absolutely no sense. Maybe it's like that Skype game the other day where Nacho and I were scum, and Empire and ProHawk were third party lovers?

Wasn't Mara the moderator of that game?

Yes, she was. And the game before she was a sk who opened the game with talking about her confirmable role.

[Bert]

I'm not scum

Why did you ignore this whole page of discussion which was centered around you being 3rd-party lovers, NOT scum/mafia.

The fact that you come out and say "I'm not scum" rather than "I'm not third-party or scum" or "I'm town" is very concerning

And no one has brought up the fact that, I cannot be scum without qwints this game, and if we are both scum, then this game a team of four with considerable amount of power considering that

I would technically give the team two kills

, with only one power-role which is restricted in that, she can't even learn who else targets her targets.

Again, nowhere have we suggested that you are scum. We have suggested that you are a third-lover party pair of lovers, so your notion that you would give the team "two kills" is simply blasphemy. Two scum teams to balance each other out (much like Masons and Monks, or even Fire and Ice) is reasonable.

[Bert]

"In post 2129, Bert wrote:
(1) I don't really think Matt is scum anymore, to be quite frank with you."

Why? Because his play the last two days has been so amazingly awesome??

Short on time here, but I'll get to this really quickly.

What incentive does Matt have to not have shot ANYONE (even Empire or any other universal townread - not to mention the claimed PR's), knowing he's next to the top of the list (if not at the top) and about to be poisoned due to (1) a neighborhood being "clear" and (2) "town" claimed lovers. That, and replacing a relatively null-scum slot.

Do you think that Mara, as a third party lover in this game, would moderate a game with third party lovers where YOU/ME/TAMMY/EMPIRE were all playing? The ONLY fucking reason that paranoia came up in the first place would be because she put them in the game.

Don't you think she'd be more careful if she was scum there, or am I just crazy?

I am not suggesting that you are crazy, but this is a bundle of WIFOM. That's like Tammy asking during that Skype game whether I would ever be so blatant as to buddy my scumbuddy (you, Nacho) as blatantly as I did during that Skype game. Please don't do this.

In post 2148, Tammy wrote:
Here's my thing, I just don't understand how we can think that scum were given only one night kill to use and believe he gave town an unlimited vig poisoner. That just really makes no sense whatsoever to me.

Then they are intentionally no killing.
Matt probably no-killed because he thought he was going to get poisoned yesterday.
He probably no-killed again because it resulted in such unbelievably stupid things last time.

Why would he not kill Tammy or take a shot at the lovers before they take him out? This does not add up.

Let's say I'm scum and have a kill. I would take a shot at the lovers (or Tammy first), if I were Matt, as I would know that my shelf-life is absurdly short due to overall perceived scumminess. No-killing several nights in a row, no. Where is the incentive, Nacho? I don't see it, unless the scum likes bringing confirmed towns and letting these threats (Empire, Tammy, you) live a long time and figure everything out. I seriously doubt scum will act in such a moronic manner as such.

<3 Still love ya, Nacho, but I wholeheartedly am not on the same page as you at this point. And I will not support a Matt lynch at this point, unless it's an absolute last resort at the deadline and there are no further options.

[Bert]

Just letting you guys know that I PASSED THE FLORIDA BAR EXAM WOOOO and the swearing in ceremony is tomorrow afternoon/evening, so my posting will be almost nil until that's done.

Congratulations!!!!!! You're a lawyer (or aspiring lawyer), right?

Your absence is 100% EXCUSED! Keep partying!!! <3

[Bert]

But she is not SCUM, and we have no reason to suspect this game of multiball. If she is a separate scum faction, then there are 8 alive today. With a lynch and a poison, there will be a tomorrow. That tomorrow will compose of me/you/tammy/empire/qwints/marangal. You/tammy/empire are all town, although I would like to firm up my read on you today.

Nacho, look, I am concerned about something happening here that suddenly happens (like 1465 suddenly a Survivor pops up (JasonWazza) and if not for a Ree genius claim)) in MYLO we would have been in trouble. Or Con Mafia, where a sudden daykill ruined our chances.

I do not want to take that chance this game. Tomorrow, we will not know if Mara poisoned someone tonight, because she can outright lie.

Therefore, it will be 4 vs. 2, but the catch is one of the four will be poisoned. So it is technically LYLO. Let's say I get poisoned and it's me, you, tammy, empire, qwints, mara. That's 6 people. Please tell me you would lynch Mara or qwints over empire or tammy. Please.

Not to my knowledge mara. And still you a kid the key point. You know the lovers setup I refer to. I know you do. So you deliberately played dumb.

You're right on the money. This is exactly what I thought when I read Mara's posts that sidestepped one page of points about her being a third party, not scum.

[Bert]

EBWOP: Sorry for the spam. Brain's in a clutter. What I'm trying to say is Nacho I am accounting for outside variables. And we *did* rush yesterday. The frantic pace to start today - I never thought I'd say this - but Tammy's doing the right thing in being cautious and using most of this day to discuss lynches.

Part of why yesterday was unbelievably "crazy," as you so put it, is because you were one of the ones pressuring us to quicklynch QUICKLYNCH.

You know, how in 527 which just ended, I felt pressured by Majiffy to hammer SD? That's the kind of pressure that has been present with you. I think you're town, don't get me wrong.

- Bert

[Bert]

Wait wait wait

It doesn't make sense for Mara to claim town lovers on D2 unless she knew Shadoweh was the last mafia remaining before Shadoweh's flip

Claiming that as a third party on D2 makes her NK bait...unless somehow she is BP and wasn't scared of a mafia NK (is that even possible?)

So Nacho Tammy Empire Qwints Mara tomorrow even if Matt's lynched and Im poisoned

This just occurred to me, as Im going to bed

Lol this game
]http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q= ... 3415994367[/img]

[Bert]

Hmm...

Hey MARPLE! <3

OK actually I have been gone most of today and I need to catch up with lots of things but I will be here tonight to read over what y'all lovelies have posted

will anyone else be here

Love, Bert

[Bert]

You don't need the caps lock to get your point across; you're articulate enough as is

also, read #2176 again

do you typically overreact like this? If it was Mollie, then I could understand as it's part of what she does, and she takes it to a more personal level which you don't here (whew, don't want this game to become personal)...don't get me wrong, Mollie's style is very effective and eliciting reactions, but it is far from the way I have seen you play....to each their own, but you? I'm a bit rattled. If you're town, I see you panicking behind the scenes and trying to make sense of everything. I hope that makes sense, though I'm afraid it may not.

The caps overreaction is sort of like a smokescreen, as you are competent. You know that! <3

With that said, I am still not sure about you. Do you blame me? Because once Matt goes along with Generic, if the game isn't over, then town's in deep trouble. Picking from Empire, Tammy, Nacho, me, You, qwints. One of us may or may not be poisoned. There may or may not be a NK. It's instant MYLO/LYLO. Everyone is pointing (well, almost everyone) their finger at Matt. You know I'm the next to go if we see another day - and that's assuming you keep your word, aren't scum, and don't poison anyone tonight. Once scum bring/brings up the paranoia about my past scum games,the remaining scum(s) will be golden.

Do you see my position here?

Please read my epiphany last night:

Spoiler:

Wait wait wait

It doesn't make sense for Mara to claim town lovers on D2 unless she knew Shadoweh was the last mafia remaining before Shadoweh's flip

Claiming that as a third party on D2 makes her NK bait...unless somehow she is BP and wasn't scared of a mafia NK (is that even possible?)

So Nacho Tammy Empire Qwints Mara tomorrow even if Matt's lynched and Im poisoned

This just occurred to me, as Im going to bed

And relax. You're not in danger of being lynched, as it's evident there wouldn't be enough support either way for this seemingly far-fetched hypothesis/theory

That's my stance.

[Bert]

^that post was to Mara, not Tammy.

[Bert]

What I'm saying is you know how dangerous Con Mafia's setup was; Nacho knows how dangerous SK's game became....those are instances where outside variables came into play and town was completely unprepared for a twist - town's chances are influenced by that.

Let's say Matt turns up town along with Generic - please note, this is a hypothetical. What would you advise town to do next?

[Bert]

Is it insane that I'm still worried about nacho?

No, it's not. Everyone's fair game at this stage. We're running out of options once Matt dies along with Generic (and potentially me). Nacho feels like he's pressuring us to lynch Matt, much like Majiffy pressured town to lynch SD quickly (and to an extent also steered a quick TF buss lynch).

I'm just still trying to wrap my head around the idea of intentional no kills because that doesn't make sense. It made sense when we thought it was shoe cuz mutley had been gone, but not now.

This bothers me too. That's why I feel it's weird that Nacho is so nonchalant, like "we got this, y'all, don't you worry." Same with qwints's comment along the lines of "I haven't been here much because I feel like we've got it in the bag." If anything, Nacho is not being as openly considerate of our positions as I'd like to see him be.

I've been kind of tuned out since it looks like an autowin.

[Bert]

For the record, I'm most worried about tomorrow (and the game resuming tomorrow isn't even a given!!!). What can confusion do to you, lol

[Bert]

EBWOP: What I'm saying is, Nacho we are not suggesting blasphemy. I'm biased but also can't say I'm pleased with how receptive you are about our theorizing. Sorry, bad editing led to three consecutive posts. Sowwy!

[Bert]

Epiphany was that it suddenly occurred to me that on D2, I doubt you could have known Shadoweh would eventually flip mafia.

Therefore, it would be reasonable for you as 3rd-party to avoid coming out at all costs because the other mafia faction could target you for an NK and cripple your winning chances. However, then the other side of me thinks "hey, qwints was really in danger of being lynched, and so Mara had no choice but to claim and hope a protective PR would protect her/them. However, you discussed this in your neighborhood QT before coming out, which is risky as a 3rd party to do without knowing your neighbors' alignments.

But what Generic brought up about two lovers with different lovers confuses me even more: post #2177 - on phone and cannot quote atm

Also, I didn't realize third party is considered 'scum,' and that 'scum' applies to all anti-town factions.

I guess what Im trying to say is Im confused and don't know what to think anymore

This no-killing business is off-the-charts nutso

[Bert]

^two lovers that are not same alignment - typo

[Bert]

Oh, and while I'm in la-la land and trying to complete an assignment... before I forget:

delayed answer @Matt regarding my playstyle:

Spoiler:

I do play and lynch by gut, but I really don't have a choice. My game has to rely on and does rely on 99% real-time interactions, keeping up with the game on my phone 247 (doesn't mean I'm posting, but I keep up). I try to be logical in describing why my gut feels what it feels through real-time, but digging up enough facts/explanations to be convincing - can't do that well and that won't change. See earlier when I replaced in, where I never quite grasped everything going on in the first 10 pages that I missed. I have gut feelings, and I let the game seep in as I check my games briefly - let the subconscious do some work too. You may see teeny little spurts where it seems I can do more than that, but I can be no more than a flash in the pan. I don't actually "read" material thoroughly - maybe many years ago this would have been possible, but certainly not now.

I have hit a plateau in skill level here, for the most part a semi-VI, non-threatening player, as I will never be "reading" and "putting pieces together for a whole game." All superficial skimming, and I think about my games a lot. Only thing left is maintaining my composure better, emulating my towngame better as scum so as to be a challenge to hunt down, applying tips and advice where possible, and last of all never enough experience experience experience. Putting together cases, if done, will be very brief and likely not convincing. It is what it is <3

But in terms of effectively going through games and looking into anything more than the peripheral, not gonna happen. I've never really explained this anywhere before, but this can be a reference so I don't ever type this again anywhere here.

If anyone made it to here and your name isn't Matt, don't you dare go "self-metaing, huh? that's pathetic!" It happens!

Love, Bert

[Bert]

Lol @ Tammy

Umm okay bedtime reads list brought to you by my puppy

Town
Tammy


Nacho





Empire


Qwints



Matt/Marangal (still in a pickle, 50/50 lean)

Scum

That is where I stand.

[Bert]

I just looked up what a Ninja is.

Shoot, sounds plausible (but is it likely?) due to the claimed existence of a watcher

[Bert]

Tammy and Empire, how confident are you on your reads about each other?

From Matt's standpoint if he were scum, I can't see him being scared of being "watched" and not killing Tammy or the lovers.

However, I can see one of the universal townreads not taking a risk on killing the lovers (or Tammy if she's town). The risk is being watched, assuming the ninja does not exist.

The first NK can be chalked up to a ninja, of course, however unlikely that may be. Probably they would have targeted Tammy. Of course, they could have just NKed for no good reason, but if Empire, Tammy, and Nacho are town, why would they not kill Empire or Nacho?? That would be a clear kill with protection unlikely.

Then, I would have to contemplate either that (1) Tammy's scum - seriously doubt it because claiming self-protect would make her staying alive make sense - she would have no incentive to no-kill when there are no other claimed PR's that can hunt her down....or (2) Scum did not want to take a chance at being watched

I think that (2) is vastly more likely - I have a question though - is it likely or possible that Scum got paranoid about Tammy self-watching (even before she claimed that ability)? That could explain the NKs. The universal townread and non-ninja not willing to take a chance at guessing wrong (33% of getting "watched" by Tammy). I have never seen a doctor/watcher role or claim so I am not an expert about it.

Doing so ensures that we get rid of Matt first and take ourselves to LYLO with them 100% still a townread, with no chance of them being outed as guilty.

Thoughts?

Nacho, I don't know how to get you to firm up your read on me, but seriously I don't think I've ever been more transparent and engaged as I am in this game, at least not since maybe Popcorn.

[Bert]

EBWOP: I can't see Matt being scared of going after his targets - why? Because he was going to be poisoned soon or lynched anyway, and unless he gets rid of Mara, then his shelf-life is rather short. I don't see him not taking a chance on qwints or Mara pre-fullclaims about Mara not dependent on qwints's survival, but the vice versa being true (or do I have that backwards).

[Bert]

Scum killing one of the universal townreads would induce lots of paranoia in me about the lovers being scum or Tammy being scum, but most of all, it would make me paranoid about one of the universal townreads being scum, above all other paranoia reactions.

Then there's that other side of my brain telling me that a ninja makes perfect sense with a watcher here. *sigh*

[Bert]

Nacho,

Have you honestly just questioned why qwints would clear mara as town? Seriously?

I have seen and used numerous lovers setups which have the following setup:
One lover town
One lover mafia
Both actually third party, and win as a team separate from both their teams.

Now why would they clear each other as town? It's a mystery.

Mara, respond to this. Have you seen this setup before outlined by Generic?

I don't care if he is scum anymore, matt has spoke the most sense of the day (with regards to me that is )

Mara, the supposed town poisoner... Town. Poisoner.

I have played over 60 games, not once had the fucking poisoner been town. Yet I have played in numerous games where a lover told exists on both sides yet are traitors to both their teams.

And IM the one talking crazy. The town poisoner was accepted without question as perfectly fine.

I'm done posting here unless asked a question. My vote is in, I die at day end... Tammy, I put our chances of winning this on your shoulders as the only sane town player. You will be a target at some point, mara will poison tonight no matter what bullshit she spews here.

What do you mean they are traitors?

And why is Empire not a sane town player?? :/

[Bert]

*traitors to both of their teams

how does that work

[Bert]

I don't care if he is scum anymore, matt has spoke the most sense of the day (with regards to me that is )

Actually, the last person to say that about me turned out to be scum (WIFOM by me, I know, I know...).

But Matt cannot be scum if Mara's scum. Right? So if you believe Mara's scum, then Matt cannot be scum - at least doubtful?

One lover is scum but has a lover in the town. If they survive they hijack the win. I would call that traitors to the mafia and town, wouldn't you?

But it's not necessarily the poisoner that is a traitor? So it could be qwints? And in that setup, do they die together, or is it weird like this setup where Mara is claiming that one's survival does not hinge on the other's survival?

[Bert]

What gets me is there being a N1 kill on Llamarble, and Mara got to poison on N1 as well. So I can't see them being on one team. Maybe traitor to the town, but not mafia, then? theoretical

[Bert]

I'm thinking SK, actually, since you mentioned her claiming town as an SK early on. Sorry for the triple-post, brain going a mile a minute.

[Bert]

OK, I was wondering because of:

we both die if I am killed at any point during today, I don't die if qwints is the one who is lynched/killed or w/e

so Bussing isn't totally outside the realm of possibility if we are both scum AND I didn't even have to proactivly defend the Qwints wagon

This is far-fetched for a traditional lover pair then, for Mara to not die with qwints' death (whether it be a NK or lynch).

[Bert]

And I haven't ruled out matt could be scum if I'm wrong about mara, but I agree it's either or... It could either be that you can replace matt with you bert. You were first on the mara wagon, still there I think, yet YOU are quizzing ME on why she is scum.

And the wifom you just tossed out doesnt help. But I'm bulletproof now, mudslinging at me gets nobody anywhere cos I'm dead anyway. So your efforts are better spent (town or scum this is) focusing on the lynch choice.

Actually, I suspect Mara is scum and will poison me tonight. And if I'm wrong about her, I get lynched tomorrow.

Do you see the universal townreads getting lynched before me (or one of the lovers?)

I doubt it.

So I'm as good as dead tomorrow. You know that.

[Bert]

After Matt dies and you do too (I think both will flip town tbh), then it's me or Tammy or Empire or Nacho or the lovers. I'm not gonna win that battle, which is what I'm trying to get across to Nacho who is hellbent that Matt is likely scum (which I no longer agree with). But I'll go with Matt at the deadline because there's no chance for any other lynch. My discussion here is all in vain for the most part.

[Bert]

And I'm quizzing you because I actually care about this game and am going through every possible scenario there is. As I just told Nacho, I am rarely if ever this engaged in a game. Hasn't happened since my 2nd or 3rd mafia game here.

[Bert]

The optimal play here for y'all is to lynch me and have Mara poison Matt (or the other way around) - IDK if Mara will oblige, and if she does, we have no way to know if she really followed through - like that Generic poison which she made her decision on her own. That way, tomorrow is 2 vs. 3 lylo + 1 (poisoned). Because Mara probably won't poison me by the looks of how she's talking.

If Mara poisons someone else other than me and has me lynched, then game over if Mara's scum. We have no control over that.

Matt + 3 + 2 lovers

And if Empire Nacho and Tammy decide they are all three super super town, then MAYBE they will decide to lynch the lovers. OR, Empire Nacho and Tammy one of them is scum and gets lynched hopefully.

also,

for what it's worth, I think if Matt and you flip town, and I get poisoned or lynched or something, then it's Empire because he has waited till the deadline on each day just to see where everyone's going, and then sheep. That is what has bothered me, despite him being spot on in every other facet.

[Bert]

EBWOP: But it doesn't make sense that Tammy and Empire would have no killing ability and not get rid of Nacho before he has a chance to figure them out. So still leaning Mara if it's not Matt. tbh.

[Bert]

Oh, and if someone is poisoned you go into that next night knowing she is lying scum, win win.


Pedit: what? Bert, number crunch that for me like I'm 5 years old.

If we lynch someone else not named Generic today (sorry I'm not making good sense today and being really verbose (sp?)

today: 2 vs. 6 or 1 vs. 7, but you don't count. So 2 vs. 5 or 1 vs. 6

tomorrow is 2 vs. 3, effectively LYLO, or 1 vs. 4 (subtract 1 from 2 vs. 5 because of tonight's poisoning possibility, then subtract 1 more for today's lynch (matt likely).

And no, they will not no lynch today. Fortunately or unfortunately

[Bert]

It makes tomorrow MYLO at worst (if someone is poisoned tonight who is town, assuming Mara is town). Tomorrow becomes more complicated, yes, but Tammy at least if town has a chance of saving a kill tomorrow night (which will be hard and unlikely). That's all I can think of.

[Bert]

Vote: No Lynch

[Bert]

How about NL, then have Mara poison me or Matt, and then NL tomorrow, and then have Mara poison me (since none of you are receptive to ever lynching the lovers anyways), and then if tehre are no kills on 4 consecutive nights, and Tammy sees nothing, then something's seriously up.

1 or 2 nights, maybe someone missed a kill or something, and the other there's a ninja, who knows...

but 4 in a row is... crazy

can help us get a better look at the overall picture

[Bert]

I will limit myself,

to haiku-speak for reasons,

please meet Bert-haiku.

Spoiler:

Matt has not written,

much poetry as of late,

might he change that soon?

He may die today,

but his poetry shall not,

I demand he write.

[Bert]

Nacho bussing Desperado for towncred does make sense. His argument can be "I had no need to do that, why would I ever do that as scum."

And isn't it interesting how Nacho suddenly said Shadoweh was scum on D2 when he had been against a Shadoweh-lynch on D1? On D2, I called him out on that and he answered me weirdly.

My last scum game, Desperado explicitly said in the QT during N1 that he was the one that would likely not be able to go far, and that it was important that Penguin and I stay alive. He literally suicided on D3 via gambit, and also took one for the team on D2 by quickhammering a bodyguard who had not claimed because he would likely have been next to go. In addition, he remarked he had been playing poorly throughout. That's not much confidence right there.

Nacho has not felt right, in the way he has been pushing lynches.

No, I started endorsing Shadoweh as town in order to stop a flashwagon. I was willing to vote llamarble then because he wasn't really looking that town yet, and he was a better lynch than Shadoweh because a Llamarble flip would at least help sort out Desperado.

It's weird that he started talking about Shadoweh as a scumread only after D2 began, which makes me wonder if Shadoweh knew about the poisoning and relayed it to Nacho before it was revealed to all the town.

Nacho's not going to be poisoned, ever. If Mara's not scum, and Matt's not, Nacho is a real possibility. I mean, even he has me as his weakest townread. Has he tried to figure you out the way he should? Or do you think he's just reading you as town town town and you're OK with that?

The no-NKing thing is all WIFOM unless scum really has no kill-ability left.

[Bert]

VOTE: Projectmatt

Nacho's last posts make me feel better about Mara and himself, although I'm still not completely convinced.

Also, Bert, are you allowed to link the scum QT to the Castle game here?

http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/ApdJP62Rt8g

Desperado msg 104: "

I hammered knowing it would get me lynched tomorrow...I've been playing poorly as it was, and tbh towards the end of D2 I was just trolling Wisdom.

Huntress was our last shot--if she had an opportunity to claim BG then it almost certainly would have been either Penguin or myself + Cop/BG combo.

Desperado msg 122:@ Bert, we name claimed but that's it, and roles don't appear to match characters.

I will claim tracker with Huntress protecting mollie N1 and Wisdom no-visiting N2.

I say we block Nat and kill Wisdom. Tayter isn't confirmed town until Nat is confirmed cop, and is much less dangerous than Wisdom. Mollie is way, way off her game and I don't think she'll be able to course correct on her own."

Desperado msg 35-36: "Yeah, one of the people on that flash wagon on me needs to die

And I don't really care if it gets me lynched TBH. I'm 95% sure there's no town vig, which means my BP power was really for the SK that just got lynched. For all intents and purposes I'm a goon now, which means you (for the universal townread) and Penguin (roleblocking) are the people who need to stay alive.

It might even be wise to just kill serra and then hope people blame me. Easy wagon to get on that's also too easy to not bus as scum, so if you two did I don't think people would be looking for scum on my wagon.

And if no one picks up on it then we just forget it and move on"

Other more non-relevant quotes from Desp:

Spoiler:

Penguin Alien msg 97:

Spoiler:

"I do suspect Desperado's hammer is going to turn out badly for him. Great for the team, in that it got rid of a PR, but without a claim... :~( Thanks, buddy."

However, Desperado msg 131:

Spoiler:

here's no way there's a BG and another protective role. We got a 1-shot BP to balance the SK and a roleblocker to balance the BG/Cop town combo. + the town-town neighborhood = no more town PRs. Our kill should be the one that maximizes our ability to stay alive and at this juncture I would argue pretty vehemently that that means Wisdom needs to die. His mollie paranoia will be gone. Block Nat, kill Wisdom, try to ML Serra or Nat. Bussing me is Option B.

Desperado msg 121

Spoiler:

@ Penguin: The best I can come up with is that the Wisdom/Mollie/Bert threesome was eating up the thread, Huntress had a decent chance of flipping scum, and the day needed to end.

I don't think it'll be very effective. I could also say that I tracked Huntress N1 which made her more likely to be scum for me as well.

I guess my point here (if there's any point to bringing it up) is that he is willing to take one for the team, and having himself bussed isn't that far-fetched. Kinda a weak argument though, but that's that

[Bert]

Matt, sorry if you are town. Initial gut had you as scum, and you had a big target on your back, although my read changed to town lately. Now maybe people will listen to us about how the last scum is either a univeral townread or the lovers. And no one else could have been lynched with the majority's vote today. And a NL wasn't gonna fly either. Nacho's last post has me conflicted - half of me says YAY NACHO IS ACTING TOWN it seems, other half says THIS MANIPULATIVE SON OF A HONEY BOO BOO is SCUM. Still think he's town. For now. He made me feel better about Mara and her poisoning of Generic, I must say. Brain says to go after Nacho, gut says we are in deep trouble and something's up, hence why I have been looking into Mara/qwints all of this day session.

And Tammy's town I'm pretty sure.

Tammy
Nacho/Empire
Mara/Qwints

Regardless of whether I'm poisoned or not, I know I will be here - if there is a NK, scum won't kill me ever. Tomorrow will be a tough day.

And no, matt's going to flip town by the way he's speaking.

Something's up, seriously, if Generic and Matt both flip town (which I kinda expect at this point). Generic's peeved manner about Mara having poisoned him *could* be frustrated scum, but I seriously doubt it.

[Bert]

Nacho, they're both going to flip town...gut feels that way and has for the day...but if Mara/qwints are town, I can't see anyone else as scum - paranoia would have you or Empire as scum, but that lynch would never go through, and it would feel icky anyway because I'm paranoid about Mara/qwints too

it feels like when you are pushing a lynch, it's all force and not as much everything else. it doesn't feel quite right but I will ignore it for the time being and hope you are town like I think you *probably* are

Mara, tonight is the time to cash in if you think I'm scum. Then you can focus on who the scum is tomorrow instead of guaranteeing my lynch tomorrow - everyone else is more townie than I am

that's how we win - but it's a risk to go for if there might be an NK and you are town

I am as confsued as eva

[Bert]

Tammy, ask Nacho about the time I hammered him on page 3 on Day 1 without a claim because he was "not talking enough." My 4th game here. LOL <3

[Bert]

I mean I guess that I can make myself feel a little better if I can tell myself this is the lynch that would happen anyway or that he would have been poisoned tomorrow anyway, but I just feel like crap.

No other lynch would have happened. I'm sure of it.

[Bert]

Tomorrow I think we need to have Tammy on the ropes and pressure her and see what reactions we get out of her, to be safe

I've never seen Empire as scum, personally, so I wouldn't know what to expect - I do take solace in the fact that them two are reading each other as town

Nacho is the one I feel worst about among the three townreads, believe it or not

And I haven't even started about my paranoia about Mara/qwints being scum lovers - it''s possible

But what makes me feel better is that someone here mentioned that FG's past game had a mafia ninja

That may be the case here. The no-killing gets me though. Makes no sense from the scum perspective if it's Tammy or Empire or Nacho

[Bert]

TAMMY <3 you did nothing wrong!!! unless you are scum, to which

what say you to be
a good scum playa today
and townie hammer

(terrible haiku)

[Bert]

Bye Matt! Good luck with your school work.

And Tammy gets to focus on lectures and what-not, which is a plus (regarding the quick hammer()

[Bert]

OK. Gut says it's Nacho if it's not mara/qwints and my paranoia about the lover pair isn't justified/valid.

OK I'ma go now and wait for ze flips.

Love, BERT!

[Bert]

Nacho has played pretty decently, but from a gut perspective has left me feeling very odd.

Even the last sequence where he explained why Matt should be voted and Mara shouldn't be, I felt he was compensating by going all caps lock

Holy - I'll miss your poetry!!!!!!!!!!!

*doffs hat*

*twirls cane*

*Matt disappears into the sunset*

talk about theatrics and going out with a bang

BRAVO

[Bert]

Nacho I'm town this game, you've been really off about me lately

I'm drained from playing scum so much lately, like I need a break from this madness

are you finally believing me that qwints and mara are 3rd party aka scum?

Please tell me you didn't.

She did, because she first told us on Day 4 that she wouldn't poison anyone, and then later she said she would. And Tammy, you asked her why she changed her mind about poisoning someone.

[Bert]

because Nacho if you look for things that aren't there, like you are doing lately, that will induce a lot of paranoia about you and make me think you're scum because you should know better :/

Are you trying to drive me insane? No one else but me visited the person I healed last night.

Insane Tammy, meet Insane Bert.

[Bert]

Vote: qwints

What changed your mind, because yesterday you spent the day saying I (and generic) was talking crazy talk with my suspicions about Mara/qwints?

[Bert]

Also, I'm still really bugged by baldeagle replacing out. I was playing with him in another game at the same time and he came under a lot of suspicion and took it rather well. Why replace out if you are confirmed town? I feel like I'm dwelling on this a bit but yeah.

He takes it pretty well regardless of alignment, and with a pretty good attitude.

[Bert]

Where did the nacho suspecting you stuff come from?

Oh, Nacho is Marangal-level paranoid about me now.

Comes from 231 after Day 1 of Micro 231, and then I changed my playstyle after Castle ended during Night 1 of that 231 game, and so Nacho's probably going to come out and say

"BERT YOU JUST SCUMCLAIMED" So far, he's voting qwints though, so maybe he's not as paranoid now. And Mara read me wrong in that game again. So expect some pressure on me.

[Bert]

Nacho I'm town this game, you've been really off about me lately

?
where have i suspected you this game?

You said you think I'm town, but that you would like to firm up your read on me. (day 4)

Oh, and go back to Day 3, when you spent some time asking me a ton of questions and telling me to get serious, and then telling me when you'd like to lynch me, and how suspicious I am

???

[Bert]

Don't mind me, I think I'm frustrated, Nacho do you remember Newbie 1391

this feels like that?

6 nights of no-kills?

[Bert]

with this vote at hand
I place my vote without tact
Oh qwints please do die

Vote: qwints

<3

[Bert]

Hey Empire!

OK I'm gonna leave this thread for tonight because for the last 24 hours, I've been a grumpy old (young) fart! Chalk it up to trying to catch up with too many things on campus.

SCUM you will feel my wrath once we find you!!!!!!!!!

[Bert]

Guess who slept like a dog last night

<---------this guy

OK so #2340 is so on the money. If I could 'like' that post, I would.

that is the exact content of my posts. I stated that I wouldn't poison tonight if both of Matt and Generic some how ended up town, that was under the assumption that Matt was going to be lynched that day. If he wasn't I was going to poison him

I'm going to go, and leave, and play pokemon and wait till whoever is town figures out that it really is impossible for qwints and I to be scum

So....need a definite yes/no as to whether you poisoned someone last night. Not "this is what I stated yesterday." That will not suffice.

Also, it is not impossible for you two to be scum.

[Bert]

Brief responses to what I skimmed in the past few hours:

- Yup, only one of the lovers being scum makes sense

- Empire/Tammy are reading each other as town and 4 scum of the same faction in the game makes no sense, both seem town, but Tammy more so

- Nacho is unpredictable but is pretty town today, didn't know the purpose of the Day 3 push until today

- all have capable/competent scumgames, so if I had to pick from the three, I'd have no idea but Tammy and Nacho seem remarkably town from what I remember in our games together. my stance on Empire remains that if Tammy is reading him town and they aren't together, I trust Tammy's read because they hydra together

- @Empire, no I would not no-kill for 5 night phases... I've never missed a scum NK in 6 completed games, ever. And Nacho would be gone N1 or N2, Tammy would be gone N1 or N2, not llamarble who I had never heard of and didn't consider as big of a threat as Tammy or Nacho. If Mara were town and I were scum, she'd have been gone eventually (before Night SIX) for her paranoia about me <3 But yeah, Nacho would have a very, very, sadly short shelf-life

[Bert]

*only the lovers being typo

[Bert]

It's mara. From what I know about her, she tends to not really care that much when she's mislynched if it's giving town information. She would have to know that this is a practical plan, and it's no even her that's getting lynched, so why can't she see that it's giving us information?

Maybe they die with each other and she has been lying! <3

[Bert]

OMG AND EACH MEMBER OF THE FAMILY IS FROM A DIFFERENT FACTION

TWO WOMEN BETRAYED THE FATHER
ONLY THE SON STAYS FAITHFUL

I think you're onto something. This makes sense.

I kind of would like to poison whoever hijacked the washing machine in my building and is keeping me from doing laundry. Is it too much to ask not to leave your stuff in there for over an hour after it's done? /rant

I just take a nearby hamper and put their clothes in, lol. Here it only happens on Friday's, usually.

[Bert]

especially when my actions throughout the day should be enough to be practically

cleared

as town and along with that, qwints. I don't really see the practicality of this plan,

you still don't appear to get it, do you? How you don't see the practicality of this plan is beyond me.

I don't really see the practicality of this plan, especially when we could just kill one of bert/Nacho (preferably Bert) today and still win the game. I don't see why we have to prolong any victory from happening

1) You are not clear
2) And we could kill qwints today and either end the game with his/her death and still win the game.

You understand how lovers could win today? (1) poison someone Night 4 without telling us (check), and (2) mislynch today.

Boom, game over.

[Bert]

and, considering that you are drained from 4 scum games, while I have been complaing/has not had energy for any of my scum games for the longest time, you still think that I have enough stamina to pull through this game as scum? especially when, recently, I just totally died at the end of the game and really didn't do anything?

You had majiffy there that game so you didn't have to! And everyone knows you play to your win condition and you're not just gonna flake.

There's a difference between (1) staying quiet or replacing out in a hydra and (2) not playing to your win condition and giving us a challenge as a solo player.

[Bert]

Nacho, Mara is just

she is like impossible to reason with

I would be willing to bet that we could just NL and someone would die from being poisoned (I bet either Tammy or Empire was poisoned).

It's like talking to a brick wall, everything is shot back.

[Bert]

She's also ignoring the fact that none of us would NK for so many nights

[Bert]

Mara, what's the problem with lynching qwints today?

[Bert]

I would love flove love for it to be the lovers, because then my melt down on day two concerning the other neighborhood would have been warranted AND not just because I'm a total crazy person.

I am going crazy too. I was crazy yesterday and got called crazy for suggesting the lover(s) as scum

They're acting like they're all clear and we're dodo heads for not buying it 100%, lol

[Bert]

Nacho knows my game and reads me better than anyone else. He would figure it out after five days.

Tammy and Empire hydra together and are familiar with each other and have each other as strong townreads

That is my thought process. Process of elimination.

[Bert]

Aside from the no NK Paranoia and mulit-ball speculation, no

You don't see that he's a free lynch.

And Mara, don't you dare ignore Nacho's response here

Comment on it please

[Bert]

he is just sheeping like a mofo

This is outright laughable. I was the first to vote you (aka lovers pair) on Day 4. You're going to have to do better than that, m'dear.

After its proven that I am town via no poison

that doesn't prove that you're town.
lynching qwints does.

Mara does not seem willing to grasp this concept - that only lynching qwints would prove that she's town...no matter what we try to say, there's no getting through this to her. It is not a stretch to scumread her, no matter her argument, as she is not cleared or proven town by any means.

[Bert]

Her trying to push across this "we're cleared" baloney is such a ridiculously silly statement.