Mini 1489 - VisCon: Murder at Wingate Mansion [Game Over]

[Generic]

*whos the scum then?

[Generic]

Why hasn't it been hammered?

You claim no scum on that wagon, nacho isn't scum and neither are you.

Yet inte, matt and shoe, none are on the nacho wagon, why?

I will only vote inte outside of nacho today.

[Generic]

Very concerns me that he latches on to groups, first mara and nacho and then me and tammy.

[Generic]

Lets get claims from inte matt and shoe and the. We can worry about whether to bother with empire and tammy.

Bert, fair point, I'm just very paranoid about everyone right now, my enthusiasm for the game has returned and now I'm ove analysing everyone.

But we have time to remove the players who can't be bothered and if that doesn't win it for us then I'm happy to reassess.

I'm happy to lynch inte if tammy is going to throw a tantrum about the nacho lynch, but if the death of shadoweh and inte doesn't flip a scumbag we are looking at nacho, shoe, empire and matt as the possibilities... Unless mara mysteriously lives through the night of course.

[Generic]

I will only vote inte outside of nacho today.

Could you do that then?

Ok, helps on the PoE if nothing else.

vote inte

[Generic]

Kill em off, if one isn't scum at least I will be surprised. We can pick this back up day 3.

[Generic]

If shadoweh flips scum I would say inte is best lynch. I know it seems obvious but a scum in each neighbourhood would make sense. They clearly are hiding. Still no claim too.

Come day 3 if we have one (shouldn't be likely getting two scum) we look at purple shoe/matt/nacho/me/bert as a group. Cos if its not inte it's one of the servants.
I like nachos return, and now the game is over I would like to point out it was newbie 1391 that I saw scum nacho lose interest when he was last scum left and almost completely backed into a corner (JK kept jailing him every night). His reaction was to go missing, be difficult and offer up lynches on people others werent wanting to lynch... And there are signs of that play here.

One for day 3 if we have one, if we don't I will apologise to nacho for the paranoia

[Generic]

How about we just discuss which of inte and shoe we want to lynch and lynch them? I see no gain from your claim tammy.

Inte's character was what I was more concerned about, and the idea we have nacho, bert, me, shoe and matt ALL claiming servants is suspicious only if inte is town. Cos desp represented the non hood scum at present.

Lets kill inte, see the shadoweh flip too and if we still have a night phase then mara can poison shoe and we take it from there.

What about that plan is a problem?

[Generic]

Qwints should have been Julie (July) wingate.

You want to know what concerns me? Desps fake claim. Where the hell did he pluck April wingate from if there is noone in the mara hood who is scum?

[Generic]

I think the making mara and qwints lovers is genius. It essentially makes both hoods three people hoods as the lovers are linked.

I think you guys went into the hoods with way too much trust. Nacho whether playing a tactic or not is at least scumhunting by behaviour, and I think that's the way to go. If we focus on the servants today then so be it, but I still say inte is scum going forwards.

[Generic]

That was like pulling teeth.

Ok, do now all roles are known, what's the master plan exactly? Kill all servants on the assumption all neighbourhoods are clean? Great.

[Generic]

Doesn't reduce the suspects. PoE is about to take effect I suspect, and you mara and qwints have all just become night fodder.

Maras poisoning and our lynch is all we have to being these numbers down. And unfortunately there is not a single member of this game who hasn't acted scummy. It's annoying.

[Generic]

It will be interesting to see the tactical play by the d I'm team tonight with regards to the dynamo we have here.

But I'm still hopeful shadoweh is scum meaning we just need a good lynch choice now to win. Inte is my current vote, don't think the matt vote is solid enough but the purple shoe vote has potential too if it moves that way.

[Generic]

Shoe, you know I consider you one if the friends I have made on mafiascum in your other guise, but I just want you to know that I hate the purple shoe... :p

[Generic]

Inte, matt... And then on the outside I have purple shoe and further out is nacho, mara, qwints, bert, and then further out from there is young tammy (who hates me).

I have changed my opinion of shoe in moving him behind matt because the cocky and borderline retarded comments he keeps making are like wearing a scum badge and sticking it in everyone's face, so i kind of think he just doesn't give a fuck. Matt has faired ok against nacho pressure but if nacho is town then his eye is pretty good at scum spotting and he is certainly keen to see matt swing.

I love tammy, cos she gets emotive like me, and does impulsive things. If that's her scum game I will tip my hat to her

[Generic]

Missed empire... Put him in the pool with nacho and the gang.

[Generic]

All filler and no reads makes inte a good lynch option.
All filler and no reads makes inte a good lynch option.
All filler and no reads makes inte a good lynch option.
All filler and no reads makes inte a good lynch option.
All filler and no reads makes inte a good lynch option.
All filler and no reads makes inte a good lynch option.
All filler and no reads makes inte a good lynch option.
All filler and no reads makes inte a good lynch option.
All filler and no reads makes inte a good lynch option.
All filler and no reads makes inte a good lynch option.
All filler and no reads makes inte a good lynch option.
All filler and no reads makes inte a good lynch option.
All filler and no reads makes inte a good lynch option.

[Generic]

Reads were requested from me, I have already broken down my PoE list for scum but will give a more detailed run down of players when I get time. Needless to say here is my T/S list as its known on MTGS:

Town-
Tammy
Mara
Qwints

Bert
The fence - nacho, empire
The purple shoe

Project matt
Inte.
- Scum

The nearer you are to a section is how clear or unclear I am about you.

[Generic]

Scum reading me was good though. I enjoyed that from inte.

First bit of input he has had on day 2 that hasn't been filler and it was to throw a tantrum. Now we are making progress.

[Generic]

Tammy, your call. Matt or inte?

Whichever you choose I will follow even though I am not as sold on the matt lynch, because we have three days and we need resolution.

Both have three votes, so if you join inte we need empire, bert and nacho to consider it. If you join matt we need mara or qwints to consider the move too or empire.

[Generic]

You have made the votes tied, so unless you did that tactically you have made your call of matt. Why would I ask anyone to move a vote before those not voting have decided?

[Generic]

Tammy, join us over here on the inte train.... Choo choo

[Generic]

.

*blah blah blah*

Vote: Inte

Partially self preservation and partially due to my belief that he could easily be scum.

Generic, if you're town be a man and actually vote who you FOS.

I've snipped out the first section (hence the blahs) to focus on that bit of bullshit at the bottom.

Don't tell me to be a man and stick only to my scum reads and then be a weasel with the self preservation vote.

1. I think hypocricy is scummy even though everyone else here doesn't, and B. I don't react well to goading to force my hand... I tend to go the opposite way to prove a point.

vote project matt

Oh look what happened there....

[Generic]

intent to hammer

And mara, if you are still playing this, should we enter a night phase here choose between matt and shoe to poison, the other is going to be my top choice to lynch come the day phase anyway.

[Generic]

In fact, I would like mara to indicate who she is poisoning cos if she dies we will
Never know.

[Generic]

You worry me a lot bert.

[Generic]

You just seem to latch on to people, gain their trust and steer their lynch, then go and throw suspicion on people the moment they aren't sheeping you... It is a real concern.

And forcing your meta apon me to form my opinion is not winning back this concern...

[Generic]

What was I supposed to reply to?

[Generic]

I tried to read the posts since mine but lost interest very quickly.

I really don't care what you think of me bert, the deflection back towards me when replying is noted though. You almost seem to be panicking now that a bit if focus has come your way.
A matt and bert scum team isn't out if the question, need to see the desp and bert interactions when I get a chance.

And I was the first person to reveal servant as a role bert, thanks for paying attention.

Inte and tammy are one hood,
Mara, qwints, shadoweh and empire are the other.

Neither are 'cleared'.

[Generic]

Oh and tammy...

One and a half days, lets make up our minds, yeah?

Shoe or matt is starting to become the choice suddenly, I'm still on matt and will only move to avoid a no lynch.

[Generic]

Shall we sync out votes bert... Like the death sentence where two people press a button so neither know who killed the guy... Neither of us will know who hammered.

[Generic]

I called shadoweh scummy back on page 2.

Mara called me scum over it then promptly poisoned her. So that makes it all square as far as I'm concerned

Will catch as and when, 5 pages to read.

[Generic]

To help out a brother here, who did mara poison?

And tammy, if you are willing to divulge who you protected I would like to know cos it's clearly that which saved us a kill.
I have a theory based on the choices made by experience vs rookie, and I would hazard a guess at who nacho would have aimed at based on him possibly thinking similar to me on it.

Nacho, if you were scum who would you have aimed at and why?

I'm happy to answer before you if you prefer, but tammy if you wait until after this answer has been given.
I would like everyone to answer that actually, if you were last scum (one left right?) who would you have chosen to night kill and why.

[Generic]

And bert is sucking up to nacho again?

*yawn*

[Generic]

You have won me back there bert, two very to the point, non emotive and informative posts.

Nacho, if I'm starting to read you correctly based on how disinterested you became as scum in our newbie game together I would have to call this your town game... If I'm wrong I will hunt you down and lynch you for realz

I would have taken a little gamble at qwints, hoping tammy would protect mara as she has the poison ability.

I want tammy to tell me if she wasnt in her current role (switch places With me for this hypothetical) and she was scum, who would she have took out?

Anyway, project matts death won't put us at lylo and heavily reduces the obvscum people left.

vote project matt

[Generic]

I would suggest she no poisons the night she looks certain to die, cos how would we know who she hit for sure? Wifom stuff.

[Generic]

vote nacho

Because it amuses me to do so.

Will put my vote in a serious place in the morning... Or maybe it already is serious.

[Generic]

Where did the speculation about poison immune come from? Do you know something I don't nacho?

[Generic]

unvote,

Vote no lynch

Mara, if we get another night phase, poison matt.

[Generic]

Mara fucked up, but I wouldn't expect any less from her. She hasn't got anything right all game. She poisoned someone who she was then convinced was town... Laughable.
She refused to accept desp as scum until he fake claimed HER role... Ridiculous.
And now she has poisoned a guy who was almost mod killed over his assertion of being town... Retarded.

Anyway, since this is my last day, if mafia don't have a night kill anymore it leaves the poisoner. And of course they will claim the other is mod cleared town, lovers win as a third party entity.

vote mara

I have just the one day left, so lets see if I can live to see the mafia finished.

[Generic]

Incidentally, my day 1/ page 2 reads were empire, shadoweh and mara... Not bad if mara flips scum and means for all her bullshit I proved I can read her within a page. She got protection from too many of you MS peeps and my home issues saved her from me being in a position to keep control to keep pushing.

If I'm wrong, meh. 1/3 still is currently better than her tally of 0/3

[Generic]

If I may be allowed to stroke my ego for a second, maras choice to take me out now reflects on how much she fears my growth in this game.

Ok, got that put of my system.

unvote

Why did shadoweh not grass her up?

You have just heard your TEAMMATE has poisoned YOU... And you keep pretending you are town? That shadoweh and mara interactions I need to reread. Mara could still be scum. It's the best play as lovers to kill off the scum and then work on the town...

But actually,

vote mara

.

Tactically it makes sense. Kill off the scum immediately. Go with the towns wishes the next day to sound out Tammys actions and be sure of the kill. THEN target a player of influence, but you have heard tammy can target herself and you can't risk her targeting nacho and stopping you (not to mention you have made it clear you think nacho is given in game).

So you are left with me and bert. I'm a bigger threat to you cos bert has defended you to me. I'm growing back into the game and you of all people know what I'm capable of when I spot something. So you kill me under the story of never having trusted me, then push a lynch on matt knowing that was the way yesterday was going. And as you said, you couldn't get me lynched, you tried and failed when I was at a low ebb do now I'm fighting fit you are fucked.

No, I think bert has seen it, I have certainly seen it. I'm confident this is a third party team.

[Generic]

Empire. Were the character names in your hood shared?

This is vital.

[Generic]

Were they shared PREGAME?

[Generic]

The one thing that is bugging my though is desps claim.

In his team if its mara and shadoweh he would see two wingates. He would borrow one of the other twos' character and if there was no claiming in the good maybe he hasn't been tipped off by the other two that would not work out.
Had he made it to day 2 he would know that the setup demanded he be a servant... Why didn't he get a fake claim?

To be honest I see no rationale behind mara choosing me, if she wants to explain it in fine detail that would be nice. Her reaction to it all was shit with a simple 'I'm not scum' then completely ignoring the point raised to clear herself on false logic.

And she knows the third party setup, I know she knows. She uses it herself.

[Generic]

Ok, how many do we have left here.
Tammy, nacho, bert, empire. Then matt, mara and qwints.

Nacho I see what your concern is. But with no night kills and mara unable to make good choices she is a liability if actually town and too much of a threat given another night if 3rd party with qwints.

If they die and are town as they claim, you are left with one scum between nacho, empire, bert, tammy and matt. If there IS a night kill then it leaves four of you, and noone due to be poisoned.

I'm dead so your left with matt or bert with an outside chance of empire (two wingates making desp think he can predict a wingate false claim).

[Generic]

And in that same post, He assumes that I know who the scum-team is when he knows pretty well that I wouldn't know who they are if I was third party

and in regards to the SK game, someone was pressuring me so I dropped that hint that I could do something in hopes that they would leave me alone.

and, I already explained why I poisoned you when Nacho asked

and I have never poisoned a town-read, I gave Shadoweh a town-read because I needed an excuse to not push her that day

I also did not ignore anything, and no one commented on the 4 scum, one town PR thing that I brought up or the fact there is one neighborhood with three scum

And, If, for some insane reason both Matt and Generic end up town, I'm not going to poison tonight.

You simply cannot be this stupid. You must be scum, because if you aren't you have seriously dropped in my estimations as a player of this game.

You know full well how lovers role works, one is mafia and the other is town and both are secretly a third party team who win independently from their teams.

My vote stands, because I refuse to believe mara is actually a moron. So she is playing stupid as scum.

[Generic]

And you know this how nacho?

Because they told you?

Man, this stupid thing is catching... Mara infected nacho.

Do what you like with the vote today nacho. My vote is staying there, anything short of mod or cop confirmed town will not make me change. I'm dead today anyway, so you guys choose your best play. I have told you who I think is scum, but if I'm wrong and your plan works I'm pleased. If you are wrong and we lose I have stuck to my principles here.

[Generic]

Generic, I ran a game where both lovers were town

and that was a game you reviewed

What has that got to do with your sudden inability to remember a standard lovers setup? Convenient amnesia, you are scum madam.

[Generic]

Not to my knowledge mara. And still you a kid the key point. You know the lovers setup I refer to. I know you do. So you deliberately played dumb.

This is day 1 all over again. Mara plays stupid, side steps around points building straw men and utilising nachos blindness to her to get out of clear scummy play. Playing dumb to dismiss a point, avoiding answering other points with answers to side issues and trying to steer the subject away from the main points... You carry on trying to convince the rest, cos I'm not changing my vote mara.

Pedit: oh, I'm convinced, you say you are both town confirmed, it MUST be true... You wouldn't lie to win would you?

[Generic]

A kid = avoid

[Generic]

Nacho,

Have you honestly just questioned why qwints would clear mara as town? Seriously?

I have seen and used numerous lovers setups which have the following setup:
One lover town
One lover mafia
Both actually third party, and win as a team separate from both their teams.

Now why would they clear each other as town? It's a mystery.

[Generic]

Wait are we really second guessing ourselves? I've been kind of tuned out since it looks like an autowin. Town would be insanely weak without Mara as a modified vig.

If we lynch Mara today, I die too. Generic was poisoned. That means 4 townies or 5 if there's no nk again. (Wow, we really can't lose this, can we?) Now there's a decent chance we've already won given generic's efforts here, but it doesn't really matter. I'm confident in Tammy, Nacho and Empire as town, and scum simply can't kill enough of those off now to win. Unsurprisingly, it's hard for us to lose when we got two scum in two days.

You need to get your story straight qwints. Your number crunching assumes me town, then you revert to the party line I'm scum. And I'm only scum given my actions toDay? So before your teammate poisoned me you had me as town? so why was the poisoning wasted on me?

I already stated. Mara is either a moron or scum. I hope it's the latter cos I on e me tired her and from what I've seen this game if she isn't scum she has deteriorated in her ability to play this game.

My vote is insignificant in the grand scheme of things, it's beets vote you need to move. You can pass my vote off as OMGUS for the poisoning but you haven't which I find interesting. You instead both of you keep saying I'm scum but lets focus on matt anyway even though you have poisoned the last scum.
Doesn't add up.

Matt is an easy lynch. So lynch him.

[Generic]

I hope it's the latter cos I on e me tired her = I hope it's the latter cos I once mentored her...

[Generic]

I don't care if he is scum anymore, matt has spoke the most sense of the day (with regards to me that is )

Mara, the supposed town poisoner... Town. Poisoner.

I have played over 60 games, not once had the fucking poisoner been town. Yet I have played in numerous games where a lover told exists on both sides yet are traitors to both their teams.

And IM the one talking crazy. The town poisoner was accepted without question as perfectly fine.

I'm done posting here unless asked a question. My vote is in, I die at day end... Tammy, I put our chances of winning this on your shoulders as the only sane town player. You will be a target at some point, mara will poison tonight no matter what bullshit she spews here.

[Generic]

One lover is scum but has a lover in the town. If they survive they hijack the win. I would call that traitors to the mafia and town, wouldn't you?

[Generic]

Lovers always die together as I've seen it bert.

It's stereotypical Romeo and Juliet, opposing families who suicide pact.

[Generic]

And I haven't ruled out matt could be scum if I'm wrong about mara, but I agree it's either or... It could either be that you can replace matt with you bert. You were first on the mara wagon, still there I think, yet YOU are quizzing ME on why she is scum.

And the wifom you just tossed out doesnt help. But I'm bulletproof now, mudslinging at me gets nobody anywhere cos I'm dead anyway. So your efforts are better spent (town or scum this is) focusing on the lynch choice.

[Generic]

How about you lynch me then?

If there is no night kill and mara claims she hasn't poisoned, you are left with no bullshit finger pointing at me as scum to try and complicate the discussion, and you are left with 7 of you (nowhere near lylo).

For me mara is openly side stepping points and trying to keep discussion on how I'm scum, so is qwints. A no lynch or lynching of me removes the concerns over lynch choice for deadline, so now you all start cycling discussing the potentials of every single remaining member actually being scum. Case all of you. Then look at the cases and dismiss the three that seem most farfetched.
The remaining three (the lovers count as one here now) are your big discussion area for the next day.

[Generic]

Oh, and if someone is poisoned you go into that next night knowing she is lying scum, win win.


Pedit: what? Bert, number crunch that for me like I'm 5 years old.

[Generic]

I feel vindicated if mara or empire are scum. Two of the three I called page two being scum is a good call


See by your numbers how the no lynch or my lynch benefits us.

[Generic]

Oh I have lots to say here.

But right now I will point out mara can't read me for shit AS I SAID. And I read her within 2 pages.

Peacebringer has an easy scumtell. He quits when he is under any sort of pressure it seems. And his attempt to get me removed from the game... Scum trying to reduce the town players. Classy.

Bert, you sir I will have to play in a game with again. As always tammy and nacho, a pleasure to play with you both.

And nacho, two out if three scum named by me page two, remember that next time you want to belittle my reads on people both you and bert were certain mara was town, even after she claimed poisoner.... Bloody poisoner!

[Generic]

Nacho is very good at casing, the danger there is he can convince players to mislynch.

I hope one day to form a hydra with tammy and nacho... Make that the long term dream

I'm officially something like 7:1 in my win / loss ratio in mafiascum. Tainted my record with a town loss I helped contribute to

[Generic]

I am happier knowing I was a part if the blame because there is no frustration. I made a major error in judgement which weakened town.

But this game was more about proving mara lies and I can read her like a book

[Generic]

I'm offended you think my scum game is so horrible. Or that I would ever talk to or about my partners. Good job on assuming you're a scumhunting god though. If I were to guess though, Mara probably just thinks you're scum. I'm accusing you of attempting to cheerlead hate on an ambiguous group of people without commiting yourself to it. Well, was. Now I'm accusing you of being..

maybe I shouldn't post at 5am, I think it affects my niceness levels. 5 is obviously an exaggeration seeing as there are three votes. The fact you checked shows you're taking me way too seriously. Which tbh I think is more likely in town then scum to get offended like that.

Lol. Shadoweh was scum... So is your game that horrible?

Also, had baldeagle not quit so suddenly I was starting to sound him out... Then my RL issues hit and so peacebringers dirty tactic went under the radar.

[Generic]

If I flip scum in this game I swear on the lives if my children I will quit MS for good.

I'm surprised that wasn't a modkill. (I mean I guess you could argue it could be faked but...uh, dunno)

And now again without the other account logged in...

There were external factors which I stated to the mod and will remain between us that he kindly took leniency on me over.

I have thanked him for understanding the situation and hope I proved I had moved beyond it with my subsequent play.

[Generic]

Oh god is Minions an MTGS super hydra.

Liked watching this game, was fun.

Not that super, I've yet to see us win! :p

But the other 6 members must remain a mystery. Consider me the poster child

[Generic]

Necro team would have been way more OP in different hands


I would not have claimed poisoner or lover, and I'd have bussed the crap out of my buddy


I realize Mara slipped in the neighbors QT and none of that was an option for her though

I didn't even want to do those things originally, and the moment I claimed poisoner, I had to make plausible town kill choices. I was planning on Bussing him after I killed my neighborhood off though I couldn't let it happen before, and with the suspicion that was piling against him I couldn't figure out what to do other than this.

and please generic, I never lie. even as mafia, and I didn't play to the "scum-con" until after we had accidentally killed off the other team, I was playing to "town-con" and was scum-hunting


ohmaigod, I just love that avi

That's even worse then mara, cos you were delusional on day 1 in your claim you are never wrong about me. Even after I tore apart your 'evidence' and I had assumed you were just being tactical you were still under the belief you can accurately read me?

Only one of us proved that here hon