A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?

[Messiah Complex]

Why? Because I'm asking you to put down a case on Alfred that's more than "they have been lurking for a long time"? Have you even checked Llamarbles other games to see how often he posts? Didn't you noticed how he lurked the hell out of Wingate despite having god-tier reads?

Marble got me lynched! If he hadn't been a bug in your ear that whispered "desp is scum" every 50 posts I would not have been run up at deadline.

And then he got murdered because he was such a threat. Marble's performance in Wingate plays a significant part in my scumread on them this game. I have already mentioned this.

PEdit: What does lurking have to do with it? I didn't bring that up, you did.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Not to mention they haven't lurked. You currently have 10 more posts than them,

and you have only really started posting today

. What's your excuse for falling behind?

And the bold is a straight up lie.

Naut, Alch, Borden, Magua.

You're welcome.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

The "inertia obstacle". You weren't talking about that before. You were talking about how you didn't have enough for a majority.

Right, which is why our vote was on Alchemist. The inertia being "who is going to be the first one to move off of this stalling Alchemist wagon."

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Nacho is using the same playbook he did in N game with the additional bonus of not having to salvage his slot from a lurky early game--mislynch to late, bus, bus, bus, endgame. He just has a more game "opponent" in Syr than Dante or Mitillos.

Magua goes the other way while Alchemist is the leading wagon on to Borden, who if he had read anything at all would know that there were at least 3 other known Borden votes out there. He gets the waogn he wants on his "#1 scumread with a bullet" and then gets cold feet. Does no compute.

Borden is just scum and it's obvious and the lengths Nacho is willing to go to justify it are embarrassing.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

And no, it's not. Your posting levels are significantly higher today than they have been any other day except for the day you pushed spyrex.

Prove it.

And you couldn't have switched... Why? And why didn't you open up voting Borden?

We didn't think Borden was a candidate today. As far as I can tell he still isn't, even with Magua's vote.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Wait so the similarities in between this game and N game are that I lynched scum in both of them? Do tell me more!

No, the similarities are that you lynched town until your team was in an advantageous position, and then you bussed.

Oh sorry, I should realize that turning against someone you had a townread on when they had a guilty against them is a scumtell

Stop pretending like not believing Ooba or Ben wasn't an option.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

No, I won't count your posts by day. I'm on an iPad.

So... You weren't voting Alfred because he wasn't a candidate. Now you are voting him because inertia? Even though he still isn't a candidate?

Now I'm voting him because I know that Alchemist is also willing to vote him, which means we just need one of the people who is currently against lynching Borden to change their mind.

That is worth more than going back to a wagon that I know already stalled at 4.

[Messiah Complex]

So two mislynches in a 25 player game meant my team was in an advantageous position? Man, that seems like a perfect time to bus two partners! And I did ask for more. I would love to hear you compare my play here more to my play in N's game: I'm sure ooba would be interested in hearing it too.

It was an option, but not an obvious one. Normally when people claim guilties on other people and it's not lylo, you assume they aren't being idiots and go with it. Neither ooba or Benmage were in the "oh this person is scummy enough to fake a guilty" position. Why did you find it scummy that Llamarble believed it?

Your Spyrex push was weak. And I seriously doubt Quadz went into D4 planning to claim so...yeah.

Is Marble unaware of Ben's meta too? Despite Tierce's warnings

in this thread?

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

I'm not going to just ignore hard claimed hard guilties unless the target is a STRONG townread or the claimer is OBVIOUSLY lying.

It's BENMAGE. What more proof do you need that he's lying? Benmage pulls this shit all the time and your absent hydra partner would be yelling at you about it![/quote

Oh look it's Tierce begging Marble to listen to her and even envoking Empire.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

This was my initial pushon spyrex. There was plenty of follow up. What did my push lack that made it weak?

It's more like what did it contain, which was a ton of outs if the pressure went away. Your case was on his predecessors, which guaranteed that it wouldn't be engaged properly.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

That's because the answer would be incomplete. The point is that you aren't even bothering to factor in his presence.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

This was my initial pushon spyrex. There was plenty of follow up. What did my push lack that made it weak?

It's more like what did it contain, which was a ton of outs if the pressure went away. Your case was on his predecessors, which guaranteed that it wouldn't be engaged properly.

- Des

My original case was on his predecessors, then I began engaging with him. If I recall correctly, your case was a mirror of that (starting out with scumreading him thanks to mollie scumread, then attacking him after quickhammer). What is your point? It's more likely a bus because I made a case on his predecessors?

No, we scumread his slot thanks to mollie's read on peace, and then Spyrex replaced in and quickhammered a wagon that we had been fighting all day.

My point was that by attacking his predecessors first you were giving him every opportunity to talk his way out of your read on him.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

That's because the answer would be incomplete. The point is that you aren't even bothering to factor in his presence.

- Des

I'm asking how the hell im supposed to factor in his presence when I don't know much about him and it doesn't seem like he affects your play significantly. You can't answer?

You could start by engaging anything he's posted.

And I can't answer in anything but generalities without a completed game to reference.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

How? How could he explain peace's actions?

Read what I said again. Voting Spyrex while pushing a case on his predecessor was you giving Spyrex an opportunity to defend himself while still being on his wagon.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

...

I am trying to express to you that you consistently attributing a hydra read to a single head is a mistake. It has caused you to catastrophically misread two people in this game. I cannot say with 100% certainty how Fish effects my play, but I know that he has. Do you think hydra partners don't affect each other?

If not, why am I having to argue that they do instead of you acknowledging that you haven't done your due diligence?

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

How? How could he explain peace's actions?

Read what I said again. Voting Spyrex while pushing a case on his predecessor was you giving Spyrex an opportunity to defend himself while still being on his wagon.

- Des

While voting SpyreX while making a case on him wouldn't be giving him the opportunity to defend himself...?

...without making it more difficult to jump off his wagon.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

What doesn't make sense?

Is that your way of saying we're done here or what?

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

I have challenged your post count/town leader accusations as well. And of the four games you provided for meta only two supported your case.

It's almost like my posting level isn't alignment indicative and varies widely from game to game.

PS one of those lurky games was a first time hydra with mara. Yet you're ignoring that and calling me scum for it anyway.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Ooba and I are also waiting for initial similarities to my play this game and my play in n's game, so don't forget about that!

All I said is that you are using the same playbook in endgame. I didn't promise anything more than that.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

What doesn't make sense?

Is that your way of saying we're done here or what?

- Des

It doesn't make sense that you are criticizing me for pushing a case om SpyreX that was based mainly on his predecessor when he hadn't done a whole lot of posting at that point. It ESPECIALLY doesn't make sense when you're using me pushing on his predecessor as a way to call my push a weak one.

He didn't need to! You already thought the slot was scum and then it quickhammered a shitty wagon! Casing his predecessor was a bunch of white noise that did nothing but waste time and you know it.

How doesn't that make sense? Since when is pushing a new player's predecessor legitimate scumhunting?

You know what I remember? Scum-Tierce casing Tamuz (or Talah, whoever it was that I replaced) in Red Wedding. Can you link me to town-you casing someone's predecessor?

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Why are you still voting Alchemist? Ooba, Cephrir, Borden--the battle lines have pretty clearly been drawn. It's me or Borden today.

Own it, Nacho.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Also so I can go to bed with some kind of resolution. I have to be up in 4 hours.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqbxZG6FMeI

[Messiah Complex]

I'm Stringer, Cephrir is the white guy, Borden is Brother Mouzone and Ooba is Omar.

[Messiah Complex]

And you're David Simon.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

unvote vote Alfred

Cephrir wakey wakey.

Magua, welcome to the light.

MC, vote alred. Naut will wakeup.

I'll believe it when I see it.

- Des

Unvote
Vote: Alfred

Day 9, Vc 9

The Alchemist (2) -

Nautilius, Cephrir

Benmage (1) -

Titus

ooba (1) -

SafetyDance

Messiah (2) -

ooba, Alfred Borden

Nautilius (1) -

The Alchemist

Alfred Borden (3) -

Magua, Benmage, Messiah Complex

Not voting (1)

: Shadoweh

With 11 alive it takes 6 votes to lynch

• Deadline Date: 26th of December 19:30 EST
  
• Deadline Countdown: (expired on 2013-12-26 19:30:00)
  
• I'm basically counting everyone semi v/la for the christmas period.

Prodding SafetyDance.

P obv I'm not getting Naut votes. Fuck it. L-2.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Alfred Borden

Or he mixed up which of the two people jumped ship to Alfred first. Jesus Christ you guys are grasping as fucking straws right now to paint us as scum. We should have tunneled Alf from the start but we figured that there are 3 other scum in the game with him, maybe we could find one that you all don't have your heads up your asses about to actually get a lynch. I really can't wait to see Alf eventually flip scum, with us alive or dead, and see Nauts reaction to getting so completely played like a bitch.

[Messiah Complex]

No one wants to lynch Alfred anyways, and something something DRAGON FIRE Okay, I could accept that he's not lynched today

???????????????

We just had him at L-1!

@ Ooba: At daystart, Borden was not an option. Magua voting him changed the equation because Elle had them as town. Ben moved from Alch to Borden, and I knew Titus also had Borden as scum so that is 4 votes. Bandwagoning him got Alch to put him to L-1, which made it clear that Borden was now a realistic lynch option. So the vote stayed.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Let's see here

We have Benmage's push on Alfred. He has some suspicious hammers. Benmage gets totally over the top. Benmage appeals to AtE rather than logic.

We have ooba's push on MC. He's a hard hydra to lynch and could probably sell me a bridge in the desert. He's been a vocal town leader, and we have been mislynching a lot. Naut's posts are also worth sheeping aside from him thinking I am scum. Ooba appears to be trying.

VOTE: MC

This post is fucking terrible.

The push on Alfred is a lot more than Benmage's AtE, and the way you are now downplaying the hammers when they've been the only reason you've been pushing Alfred personally is

Nacho's posts are worth sheeping despite your reason for us being scum a) being totally wrong (we've only been on the Garruk and Goat mislynches), b) diametrically opposed to Nacho's points on us.

And if your criteria for scum right now is Vocal Townleader Leading Mislynches That Is Hard to Lynch and Could Probably Sell You a Bridge in a Desert, you're sheeping Nacho because....why?

This is The Worst Post in this 6000 post game and it's not even close.

First quote makes it seem like Magua vote was what made it all better, but second quote shows that wasn't the case. The only reason the Borden wagon became viable was because of the wild card Alchemist switch over... But that happened after your vote. Why did you switch over when you did? Can you finally admit that the vote switches look sketchy?

No, the only reason the Borden

lynch

became viable was because of Alch's switch. L-2 is a viable wagon.

And there's still no reason for Scumrir to stick his neck out at all there.

The more you reference how unlikely it would be for scum-you to have stuck your neck out, the more likely it becomes.


-----------

We're Jaime Lannister, X-Shot Self-Watching Roleblocker. X times at night we can choose to watch ourselves; if we're visited, we have the option of roleblocking them the next night.

N1 we saw SafetyDance visit us and were also informed that we received the fruit and chose not to roleblock
N5 no one visited us

We also have a passive ability that prevents us from being neighborized.

--------


Titus's 6004 is so scummy that it simultaneously knocks Nacho off of our scum list because there is no way Nacho's teammate would be so out of tune with his arguments at this stage.

{Borden, Alchemist, Titus, Magua}

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

I was turning Titus' accusation into an official title and implying that, of all of the people remaining, it would belong to Nacho, yet he is sheeping Nacho's posts on us (while simultaneously not understanding a word of what Nacho is saying).

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

And there's still no reason for Scumrir to stick his neck out at all there.

The more you reference how unlikely it would be for scum-you to have stuck your neck out, the more likely it becomes.

Not my fault Shadoweh keeps bringing it up...

That sure is a roleclaim and it doesn't make me want to lynch here any less.

Well surprise, fucking surprise. I guess I shouldn't expect anything else from you though. You have been riding our fucking dicks the whole game and have shown next to no evidence to support any scum claim on us.

We've said what we've needed to say and have made peace with our Gods. It's just to bad that we don't have an opportunity for a more honorable death. Know this though, our lynch is based off bad reads and scum is capitalising on those and it's pathetic that the rest of the town is letting this happen.

[Messiah Complex]

I need everyone to consider a {Magua, Alchemist, Titus, Borden} scum team then revisit the formation of the Borden wagon followed by the counterwagon on us.

Magua comes in to today breathing hellfire on Borden and votes him even though Alchemist is also scum for him and is getting wagoned. If he was paying attention at all he would have known that Ben, Titus, and ourselves had already committed to our read on Borden and would obviously join him--his getting cold feet because the wagon flashed too quickly isn't genuine.

Ben and I join, followed by an essentially naked vote by Alch--who also knows Titus is compelled to join the wagon, meaning his L-2 vote is essentially L-1. Titus comes in immediately after and the bus is on.

But then Magua cries wolf, and Titus jumps off his scumread on to his counterwagon, who has been consistently pushing for his lynch for days with a set of reasons that are not reflective of the gamestate whatsoever. Yet again, he knows Ooba is committed to his vote on us so his L-2 is essentially L-1, setting Magua up to hammer us for the mislynch into 9p LYLO.

Game over.

We can still salvage this fucking game if you (specifically, Nacho and Ooba) open your fucking eyes and see what is happening.

Failing that...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-nIGR-WoHA

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Day 7 - Four wagons all on scum? Ok - but then the scum decide to bus the ninja?
Day 9 - Why didn't TA or Titus vote you instead of Alfred? Town cred for later, you say? Well, those were the weakest jumps - any towncred they would have got would have lost its value tomorrow when the wagon was analysed.

And I'm never going to be sold on Titus scum. If SpyreX\Zdenek played that kind of game D3 as scum - congratulations! At least town can pin the entire loss on me for derailing the game via kanye + bad reads this close to LyLo.

D7 - 4 wagons all on scum with three of them not voting is reasonable--they were dead to rights and waiting for a miracle (which you provided).

Elle's bus was extremely weak:

Gah, sorry Faraday (and all). Didn't think the long weekend would be this damn... long.

V/LA though until Wednesday (4th).

UHM.
I could really get behind either of those votes. Benmage or TA. I'll go with:

VOTE: The Alchemist

And as soon as she got back from v/la she jumped on to Kanye while abdicating responsibility to Tierce.

What was Borden doing at this time? Voting Benmage, who will fakeclaim a guilty on one of his strongest townreads and...become town?

But anyway, elle sheeps Tierce on kanye, you start to coordinate the hammer on Alchemist and...switch to Kanye. Only Benmage bites. Kanye and Cephrir do their role related dance and then you give them their miracle. Elle, Alchemist, and Titus never get a chance to react to your fakeclaim.

D9 - Maybe they decided to bus and Magua pulled the rug out from under them. Maybe the plan was to get Borden to L-1 and dismantle it from the beginning, knowing Ben and I would join them on it.

In either case, it's not a bus until someone is dead.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Day 7 - Four wagons all on scum? Ok - but then the scum decide to bus the ninja?

The more important question is that there are wagons on all the remaining scum and none of them even take the initiative to create one town counter wagon for an entire week?

Alfred starts a very weak wagon on Benmage after 7 days - not the best candidate for an effective counter wagon because of multiple pre-existing town reads at that time.

Sorry passing on TA\Magua\Alfred\Titus.

Alfred and Alchemist and Elle were all essentially not here at that time. Elle had 6 posts all of d7. Alchemist had 4. Borden had about a dozen before your fakeclaim. And Titus was too busy helping me push Borden to start a counterwagon.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Yeah. You are getting pissy and OMGUSy which is not you. I swapped due to wagon composition. That's hardly bad. My drunk posting was bad, but I guess that was fine because I wasn't voting you. I was solid town until I vote you. That is a major survivalist mindset.

Yeah, that's how bad your post was.

You vote me for being a vocal town leader after we've had a bunch of mislynches, and then say you're sheeping nacho's posts on me...which accuse me of not being vocal enough. And we were only on the Goat and Garruk wagons.

Wagon composition? Bullshit.

Ooba, let us suppose you are town. Why lynch MC? He appears pretty town.

Let's see here

We have Benmage's push on Alfred. He has some suspicious hammers. Benmage gets totally over the top. Benmage appeals to AtE rather than logic.

We have ooba's push on MC. He's a hard hydra to lynch and could probably sell me a bridge in the desert. He's been a vocal town leader, and we have been mislynching a lot. Naut's posts are also worth sheeping aside from him thinking I am scum. Ooba appears to be trying.

VOTE: MC

^ CONSECUTIVE POSTS

[Messiah Complex]

unvote vote messiah

alrighty

[Messiah Complex]

Borden, Titus, Magua, Alchemist

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Magua unvotes scum under the pretense of speed...when those who claim to want to vote him do so...

now he's squandered the day uselessly... much like tierce and tammy did in their time.


zzzzz


good players.

lol

How do you vote us and then post this? Does not compute sir.

[Messiah Complex]

OOBA EVERYONE HAS THE I WONT DO THIS I WONT DO THAT BULLSHIT.

Scum have too much say right now. WRITE THIS DOWN

We will deadline mislynch

if you don't lynch alfred beforehand.

Fucking grow a pair and lynch Alfred.

What happened to this Ben?

Stop resigning yourself to a loss you and put your vote back on Borden before Ooba does something stupid.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

That makes sense, why would you wait for Ben to answer when he's been active recently? You stupid, dumbfuck sonofabitch.

[Messiah Complex]

How the fuck have we been the town leader? Seriously look at this fucking moron.

[Messiah Complex]

Go spend another month writing out notes no one gives a shit about.

[Messiah Complex]

Sore town that scum can't even make a coherant argument against. Look at our voting record this game. We took down Spyrex when no one would touch him. How many mislynches has Naut been on? And you sheep him while blaming us. Fuck you scum.

[Messiah Complex]

Ben, what fucking right do you have to be as smug as you are? Your turn on us put the count at l-1 opening the door for Ooba to derphammer. Now you are all pissy? Get over yourself, douche.

[Messiah Complex]

merry fucking christmas, motherfuckers

- des

[Messiah Complex]

Bemage, this is balanced. You not playing well with others does not mean the setup is not balanced.

how the fuck would you know?

- des

[Messiah Complex]

^^^ Sore scum. Glad I got on this wagon.

you're a moron

are you even going to try and justify your bullshit vote on us again or just coast on calling us sore losers?

- des

[Messiah Complex]

Vote: Messiah

If Messiah flips green, just kill me and put me out of my misery. I'd rather face kanye right now in the dead thread.
If Messiah flips Purple, go with Messiah\TA\Magua\Cephrir
If Messiah flips blue, Shadoweh can click this.

Spoiler: Shadoweh

Benmage~Messiah connections

a) I'll let the defines leading up to Messiah's lynch talk for itself.
- ATE
- The logic "If there are four scum, why isn't town-Alfred lynched by scum" yet
b) Benmage having moonshine about Jaime Lannister (that he let's slip on D9 - he never even hinted at this after Tierce's post 3383 "Among my abilities were the knowledge that if a certain character was in the game, this character would not be aligned with the Realm.")
Lo and behold - Messiah is Jaime

Benmage~SafetyDance connections

This post in D9 - "SafetyDance is scum, and Im mad I saved her early this game." - came out of nowhere. Ben made multiple posts after SD did his.

Messiah~SafetyDance connections

D4 - Messiah wanting to delay the Quadz:SD lynches to another day and wanted to lynch Garruk. Even when he apparently understood why we needed to lynch one of them - he never voted SD who he found scummier.

Benmage tells

a) Futility
When asked for a 4-member scum team, benmage kept repeating this word - he's knows it's three teams so the entire exercise is futile. A jeep tell where they let it slip.
"This will be an exercise in futility."
"I did say it was an exercise in futility."
"There's a couple possibilities that will become clearer with a flipped scum in Alfred and NK choice... We'll finalize then.... Doing so now is idiotic speculation... Hence why your scumteam request was nothing but a lesson in futility."
b) Faraday Hate
Obviously Benmage is pissed at Faraday for what he thinks is an unbalanced 3-member two scum team setup
- First post of the game?

Vote Faraday

I mean if he's annoyed at the average player in the game - why would he even start off on the first post? This continues in ISO#1,2,5,16,60,78,96,135,137,138,140,142,192,275,276,337,389,401,412,428

These kills are probably SpyreXQuadz\Alfred
Night 2 - macmollie killed - suspected by Quadz
Night 4 - blocked by Titus
Night 6 - AGar killed - suspected by Alfred
Night 8 - Tierce killed

These kills are the other team Ben\Messiah\SafetyDance
Night 1 - BP eaten up by Tierce
Night 3 - ???
Night 5 - ??? (blocked by Agar?)
Night 7 - Tammy killed

Alfred may have lynch protection - remember that

you are a sad, sad little man

- des

[Messiah Complex]

shadoweh, safetydance, nacho:

guess what assholes, you blew it. lucky for you you get to take these reads to the fucking altar and worship them tomorrow, so shut the fuck up and listen for once:

lynch borden tomorrow, and then lynch titus the day after that--they are 100% guaranteed scum.

magua is 90% scum. elle's "you have to kill me!!!!" followed by site flake was an epic towncred play. once borden flips scum, go back into his iso and count how many times they said something to the effect of "i tried really really hard to see elle scum and i just can't" and then lynch magua for his aborted borden bus.

at this point you should be able to figure out the last one. we think it's alch. if it's not alch, it's ben. if it's not ben, it's cephrir. after that, god help you.

- des

[Messiah Complex]

we <3 all you guys

even you benmage

we hated our role. 1-shot conditional roleblock + can't be recruited? we thought the kingslayer would be a badass.

this is the first scum game where i felt like i spread a successful mist.

10/10 will play faraday games again

- des