Marketplace Mafia III - Game Over

[Lost Butterfly]

Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt the robotic Facebook "I LIKE THIS" type posts that seem to going into excruciatingly unnecessary detail at times but I am curious!

[Lost Butterfly]

Actually I hate myself and am going to go cry never mind.

[Lost Butterfly]

Okay. Advertisements.

Originally, I wanted people to keep the amount they'd advertised hidden so that scum couldn't work out who had how much money left. As I was writing this, I realized we'd have got even more information by asking everyone to claim the exact amount they'd spent (and potentially could have caught someone in a lie). Banakai's claim in particular was really useful.

The main reason I'm just posting my conclusions now is because I don't want to stall this out. It took long enough to get most of the game to claim their advertisements. Even now, I'm

assuming

DoctorPepper and Hermy advertised nothing--Hermy in particular I don't see caring enough about the game mechanics to advertise. (But then again, I wasn't expecting Banakai to have been such a prolific advertiser.)

Here were the abilities auctioned on N0:

Austerity Measures --> claimed advertisement by Seanald
Cop --> claimed advertisement by Banakai ($2) and upside down
Deadline --> no claimed advertisement
Extra Vote --> claimed advertisement by Voidedmafia
Gravedigger --> claimed advertisement by Banakai ($3) and ProHawk
Hitman --> no claimed advertisement (but according to Magua, advertisements on counter-abilities stack, so Banakai's claimed $3 on Doctor and $2 on Commuter mean $5 on Hitman)
Investigative Immunity --> counter to cop (proxy-advertised by Banakai and upside down)
Medium --> claimed advertisement by Zdenek and upside down
Neighbourizer --> claimed advertisement by Banakai ($1), Garuda, and morph
Vote Freezer --> claimed advertisement by Nero Cain ($3) and baldeagle

Now, here were the abilities available on N2:
Commuter --> claimed advertisement by Banakai ($2)
Doctor --> claimed advertisement by Banakai ($3) and morph (after confirmation)
Governor --> no claimed advertisement
Love Potion --> claimed advertisement by Nero ($3)
Ninja --> counter to Watcher (proxy-advertised by morph)
Roleblocker --> no claimed advertisement
Tailor --> no claimed advertisement
Vote Nullifier --> no claimed advertisement
Watcher --> claimed advertisement by morph (after confirmation)

What can we conclude?

1) Banakai is confirmed to have advertised commuter, at least, since it showed up on N2 and no one else claimed it. He's likely telling the truth about doctor unless the scum advertised Hitman.

2) Although doctor might have shown up solely because of Banakai, morph must have been telling the truth about advertising watcher on N0. Without him, the ability wouldn't (unless you think scum would deliberately want watcher in the game).

3) Now, assuming Banakai is telling the truth about all his advertisements...look at the

amounts

he spent. He put $3 on Doctor, but it didn't show up until N1. He put $2 on Cop and $1 on Gravedigger,

and both showed up on N0.

The only people to have claimed these were upside down and ProHawk, respectively, so they're telling the truth. (If Banakai is lying, then upside down and ProHawk are obviously telling the truth anyway. But point 1 makes me believe Banakai was telling the truth.)

4) Seanald, Nero, and Voidedmafia are the only players to have advertised Austerity Measure, Love Potion, and Extra Vote, respectively. All three abilities showed up. Furthermore, baldeagle's advertisement claim (Vote Freezer) is consistent with Nero's claim of $3 on Love Potion and $3 on Vote Freezer. Remember, we've already established that $3 isn't enough for an ability to appear on N0 (unless it was randomly chosen over Doctor). Vote Freezer showed up on N0, but Love Potion didn't appear until N1. However, they could conceivably be scum claiming their real actions.

5) Since no one claimed to advertise Wage Freeze, someone must have advertised Deadline during confirmation. That someone is scum.

6) Since every ability that was advertised showed up by at least N1 (morph even described what they'd put on Watcher as "chump change"), it's conceivable that Governor, Tailor, Vote Nullifier, and Roleblocker were just selected randomly from the list of $0 abilities. But given how mediocre the non-claimed abilities in last night's auction were, there's a high chance that scum advertised at least some of these.

7) We don't have enough information to confirm who really advertised Medium or Neighbourizer. upside down/Zdenek/Garuda/morph, I don't suppose you could claim how much you spent, could you?

8) If DoctorPepper comes in and goes, "Hey, guys! I forgot to tell you, but I really advertised cop AND watcher AND gravedigger," then I'm dayvigging him.

The main thing I'm taking away from this is that morph, Banakai, upside down, and to a lesser extent ProHawk (since Gravedigger isn't as unambiguously protown as some of the other abilities) come out looking really good. Given that the advertisement totals are hidden, I don't see scum dropping money on advertising protown abilities on N0. The only way it pays off is if you happen to be the one player in the game who advertises that ability. And morph going the extra mile of advertising abilities that were in danger of being eliminated last night is a major towntell.

Thoughts?

[Lost Butterfly]

EBWOP (I can't go a wall without one of these):

-The second set of abilities is on N1, not N2.
-

Without him, the ability wouldn't (unless you think scum would deliberately want watcher in the game).

Without their advertisement, the ability wouldn't show up.

Upon reflection, it's not

impossible

that Banakai fakeclaimed--Commuter might have been a $0 ability chosen randomly on N1 (in which case scum advertised Hitman or another protective role on N0), or even a role scum were gunning for to avoid night actions. But given that he was barely following the thread, I don't think he'd be capable of perfectly crafting such a complex advertisement claim to fit with what had been revealed in the thread.

I guess there's one way to answer that: upside down and ProHawk, how much did you advertise Cop and Gravedigger for?

EBWOP: morph, if you bid less than $3 on neighbourizer, you can confirm that Garuda is telling the truth. (Granted, neighbourizer has utility for scum in this game, so I understand if you don't think it's worth it.)

[Lost Butterfly]

LB, I didn't advertise Vote Freezer, I won it.

...well, never mind. .___.

Then either 1) scum placed an additional advertisement on Vote Freezer along with Nero's, or 2) Vote Freezer was randomly selected over Doctor because $3 was the minimum cut-off. (Or 3) Nero is scum and lied for no apparent reason about the amount he bid.)

[Lost Butterfly]

I guess there's one way to answer that: upside down and ProHawk, how much did you advertise Cop and Gravedigger for?

$15 for Gravedigger
$30 for Doc

Morph, I really need that Meta-Dive from you soon.

You advertised Doctor when Doctor was already up for auction?

Also, that's annoying. None of Banakai's actions are 100% confirmed now (since he claimed Commuter after it had already shown up). Agree with Garuda that the spread of abilities looks townish, though.

Also also, sorry, Harakiri (not that another neighbourizer advertisement claim changes things at this point). I can't do the same thing with the N1 advertisements until we see what abilities show up on N2.

[Lost Butterfly]

You advertised Doctor when Doctor was already up for auction?

I volunteered to advertise it?

Yes, but advertising is only useful to make sure abilities are auctioned in the first place?

Given my analysis, I would really like morph and upside down to be in the list of six now. Even over Pyrotechnics (having some paranoia of them, actually, but we still think they should be included). Harakiri is a good choice, as is Mhork. Faraday feels confident PeregrineV is town based on meta. pieguyn is a very mediocre choice; to be honest, I think you're too easily impressed, morph.

So...

morph
upside down
Pyrotechnics
Harakiri
Lord Mhork
PeregrineV

[Lost Butterfly]

It's bothering me atm that Nacho-garuda isn't pushing for a different lynch at the moment, he's arguing against the two top lynch contenders' wagons. This applies to LB also, though not to the same extent.

See, the original idea behind hydraing for this game was that I concentrate on strategy and leave all the actual scumhunting to Faraday. Because I can't scumhunt my way out of a paper bag, while Faraday can't strategize his way out of a paper bag! :twisted (I jest.) But then it turned out Faraday couldn't devote much energy to this game or be that engaged, so I've just been sort of flailing. We're working on that.

[Lost Butterfly]

Hey, you could be me and Sakura, each taking turns being really mad and wanting nothing to do with this game.

At least you've both managed to look town while being mad. That's a start!

[Lost Butterfly]

Prod dodge, since I'm running late for work. I've been busy with work and spread really thin the past few days. Faraday sent me a message saying he thought the DoctorPepper lynch was so-so (it's kind of similar to the Hermy lynch except DoctorPepper hasn't done anything, but his reads WERE terrible), but he also thinks Nero has a higher chance of flipping scum (I was actually starting to warm up to Nero, but his late D1/early D2 stuff was bad), but I frankly don't know why he couldn't have just said that in the thread himself instead of flagellating himself for his "uselessness." Also, we prefer DoctorPepper to Voided, because although I don't like Voided as much as I did yesterday, he's still looked quite genuine at times in response to pressure.

I really want to get actual reads out, so I'd request people wait until I'm around tonight before hammering DoctorPepper UNLESS it's the difference between an extra $5 efficiency bonus. (In that case, it's my own fault for putting it off so long and doing absolutely nothing today.)

I'd started typing this response out to Nacho like a couple of days ago and forgotten to submit it, though, so:

@Nacho: the "reasons" I was referring to re: morph was that Doctor and Watcher both showed up on N1. It led credence to their claim. (If you notice, I said something similar about upside down, since they were the only ones to claim a Cop advertisement before Banakai.)

Reading through their ISO I'm not particularly inclined to do much explaining with this read (because it should be really really obvious to everyone with eyes), but reminding myself of how fucking town they are makes me get weird on LB a little more because honestly the paranoia on Tammy should be pretty much eradicated and turned to ash in a blast oven by now. I don't care how bad you think Tammy's points on you are, do you really think *this* is what her scumgame has become?

Given that we included her as third in our list of six, obviously our paranoia wasn't very serious. morph and upside down had actual hard evidence in their favour (morph is proven to have advertised Watcher, and upside down is proven to have advertised Cop). We were mostly starting to discuss Tammy a lot behind the scenes to double-check that we weren't letting her slip through the cracks. Our main concerns were 1) she didn't seem to be following up on her suspicions of us, 2) we might have been underestimating how well Tammy can play in multiscum (she might have genuinely believed everything she was saying about us), and 3) she'd gone quiet for awhile on D2. I probably shouldn't have even mentioned it, but it was on my mind because I'd just been talking about her to Faraday on AIM.

Edit from the future: her most recent posting does a lot to remove this. She's back to a rock-solid town read.

I also maintain that the wording of that Voidedmafia quote reads as off (although the format of probably made it sound like it played a larger part in my renewed suspicions of him than it actually did).

[Lost Butterfly]

VOTE: Nero Cain

I'm mostly just sheeping Faraday. Also, this is a better placeholder vote than ourselves, anyway.

EBWOP:

it's kind of similar to the Hermy lynch except DoctorPepper hasn't done anything,

Um, I mean, isn't as obviously scummy, just hasn't done anything of substance.

Also, fuck, I'm really late for work now.

[Lost Butterfly]

Actually, um...

I just skimmed Nero's ISO to see if he'd ever followed up on his Harakiri suspicions or answered

why

Love Potion and Vote Freezer were sooo protown, and...his posts about Muffin and Mhork (particularly the thing about them not being scum together)...actually...looked kind of genuine...

.____________________________________________________________.

FARADAY. GET IN HERE AND SAVE ME.

Um, Nero, assuming I didn't miss it, I don't suppose you could answer the thing about Love Potion/Vote Freezer? Or explain whatever happened to Harakiri/why you still suspect them?

[Lost Butterfly]

I should also mention to Nacho that Voided's explanation for the post I thought sounded like other-team fishing is confusing and evasive and doesn't make sense. (Will elaborate when I have more time to look up the quotes.)

[Lost Butterfly]

Hey I've been chastised to post because apparently me basically flaking on the game when I can't post isn't acceptable!!! Go team FaraMina.

Anyway, I don't really object to the DoctorPepper wagon in that most of his posts suck except uh there was one that was like "huh that might be a town response".

Oh, I think Lick's replace out is actually more nill than befotre? I mean, it was super town when he was being a sacrificial lamb -- but if he's replacing out he'll know his follow up guy will not go through with it. There's also a part of me that has always wanted to replace out of a game as scum ust to make a super town. Also Jacob's savage last post fucking sucked

oh and nero got into some stupid screamy argument about some dumb thing after tammy(?) called him out on not shouting and it just looked like he decided to get shouty about the first thing he could find. his whole MHORK IS A LIAR RAWR thing didn't make much sense, since it's not like mhork's post was trying to say it was scummy - it was just an observation

ghostlin looks pretty sasssy brb

[Lost Butterfly]

Ohh, a wagon on me led by my scum read. Predictable.

this seems a kind of weird reaction for scum in this postion to me. i.e. he's about to get fucking quicklynched so he...baits people (which makes them less likely to unvote?). i've never played with doctorpepper but is he really likely to fake this type of thing as scum?

[Lost Butterfly]

Wait - what;

UNVOTE:

Also whats with the 1.5 days compared to 18 hours?

VOTE: DoctorPepper

Trim the Dead wood. (I was going to do a comparative ISO of Voided to DP but then I saw the size difference...)

this sucks fyi he parenthesis feels like an over justification

[Lost Butterfly]

HEY MINA I'M POSTING CAN I GET A HUG? ^_^

[Lost Butterfly]

oh the one thing that made me think "huh muffin's town maybe after all" was he was like "actually my scum game is there if you know what to look for", now I don't neccessarily think this is more true for him than anyone else (there are always differences) but I'm not sure if he's going to come out and denigrate his scum play as town. (esp. since I think in the anxiety game as scum he commented on the strength of him scum game? maybe I made that up whatever, still likd it)

[Lost Butterfly]

Ohh, a wagon on me led by my scum read. Predictable.

this seems a kind of weird reaction for scum in this postion to me. i.e. he's about to get fucking quicklynched so he...baits people (which makes them less likely to unvote?). i've never played with doctorpepper but is he really likely to fake this type of thing as scum?

I expected the town response to be an incredible amount of flail. He usually has conviction in pretty much everything he says and his reaction was very meh, sounded resigned.

I guess i'd just expect him to be putting *something* out there as scum in an effort to try and stop the wagon on him?

[Lost Butterfly]

ghostlin you should use post tags 1971[/post*] in your catch up although I like that you're posting in blue as it reinds me of oldschool hoopla

because moast players care about being lynched as scum, whereas for some reason people don't as town? also if it's an actual genuine reacton i feel it'd be tailored to be more appeasing as scum.

[Lost Butterfly]

This was him getting quicklynched in Dixon Hill. A bit of complaining for the bad lynch, a bit of conviction. I can't see one of his scumreads pushing him and getting him lynched and him not freaking out more than what he did.

huh. that's a different reaction but he's already been hammered here, and I still don't neccessarily see that reaction coming from scum?

[Lost Butterfly]

What do you think of JacobSavagenow and Nero?

[Lost Butterfly]

Er, I know you gave thoughts on them but given most of your reads lists so far boil down to "has some good posts" where do they fall in the grand scheme of things?

[Lost Butterfly]

Empire, how confident are you about the DoctorPepper wagon?

[Lost Butterfly]

Tammy, your vote is still on Morph. Put it somewhere more useful -- I know you said you were "okay" with the DP lynch? What do you think of his reaction to the wagon?

[Lost Butterfly]

HEY BALDEAGLE

why are we town? I.e. what changed so dramatically between Day 1 and today when we made your list. Did you answer that already? I mean, considering I don't think Mina has actually done much today other than post an advertising claim (which is apparently cool?) but we've just been generally not as A+ players (bear in mind I'm fucking awesome in general) as we could I'd have thought your scum read on us would have strengthened? But now we're a town read? Which posts of ours since

No. You are getting lynched today.

changed your mind? Or was there a point where it just clicked that we're *that* fucking town and you'd been wrong all this time?

!!

i think tammy asked why we asked her about that, it was mostly Mina was weirded out by some of the lack of follow up from yesterday and other than balkdeagle's initial slips i kinda felt he'd been chugging along after that? so I wanted to disguise the question by asking both of you.

actually prohawk had something similar where he voted upside down on the wagon yesterday but he scumread us prior to the wagon that I completely didn't understand. but that kind of made sense when he went through the votes (I think he did? or categorised them)

[Lost Butterfly]

Faraday, coming back to the thread didn't mean you spammed posts for half a page -_-.

Faracorp would like to thank you for your vital service in playing this game. However they would also like to remind you that under article 6, paragraph seven, subsection 2 faraday can spam the fuck out of any thread at any point

oh also since you responded to my "going to cry" post I was frustrated by stuff and just didn't feel like playing mafia and that anything I was wanting to do didn't work (i.e. specifically look for reactions to get reads was my plan but then I felt emo! But I'm okay now!)

[Lost Butterfly]

Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt the robotic Facebook "I LIKE THIS" type posts that seem to going into excruciatingly unnecessary detail at times but I am curious!

You're still not scumhunting.

You should have quoted your earlier post re: this. It gets more style points than repetition. And yes, that's true, but it can hardly be helped. I can't force myself to scumhunt successfully, so if I'm not in the right frame of mind I'm just not going to do it or work behind the scenes until I feel slightly cock/egotistical again. And well dealwithitdog.jpg

[Lost Butterfly]

I don't really feel like reading all of the walls. Is there any reason not to lynch Voided or Mhork that I am unaware of?

How up to date are you? Mhork looks pretty town after his initial posting. Why do you still have a scumread on him? When you're next around, quickly ISO him and tell me if you still believe in this sentiment. He basically picked it up once I annoyed the fuck out of him, I thought. (Which is fair and what I was kind of going for -- also he has said some things I don't think he'd say as scm.

I'm less sure on voided but don't think he's a *good* wagon.

[Lost Butterfly]

Hey, upside inside out livin' la vida loca. Can I get a summary of your strong reads?

[Lost Butterfly]

I agree with Nacho's girlfriend's taste in avatars. Although not boyfriends.

[Lost Butterfly]

I had a cock once, but it got killed by a fox.

[Lost Butterfly]

If you vote nero i won't kidnap your cat! I mean, I won't anyway, but that's irrelevant.

Hey morph what do I do if my name is on the list again?

[Lost Butterfly]

Hey, BB how scummy is not scumhunting? (I meant to ask you this earlier but then I decided to not post instead)

[Lost Butterfly]

Hey, BB how scummy is not scumhunting? (I meant to ask you this earlier but then I decided to not post instead)

Depends on the player

Tricksy. Why is it scummy for voided and say, not me?

[Lost Butterfly]

Hey morph what do I do if my name is on the list again?

then tonight you sit down and get money. Bid as you see fit, advertise items not in the five you want to see avaialble, play strategically.

Huh. Guess I missed that!!!

[Lost Butterfly]

I just realised my posting this real life day has been pretty excellent and wanted to share that with everyone here.

[Lost Butterfly]

Morph who do you think should be lynched?

[Lost Butterfly]

I actually don't fully understand your question. Oh, no wait I do. I think it's a town tell - the second half was talking about a different game where he was scum and did the opposite (well not the opposite but an oppositey type of thing?)

GET OUT

[Lost Butterfly]

okay double checked and he was talking about past games http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p5307001 but still

[Lost Butterfly]

My point was even if it's not quite true (i.e. I think people tend to think they're more transparent than they are unless they're a retarded VI) I'm not sure he'd say it like that or put down his scum game like that as scum? (Then I compared it to the scum game thing he said which I admittedly misremembered)

[Lost Butterfly]

Your face is oomphy.

[Lost Butterfly]

VOTE: Nero Cain

Are we full-claiming amounts we spent and roles we have, or just WHAT we bid on last night? (I'm not really sure the former is the best idea.)

Also, MONEY!

Something I'm stupid and forgot to ask yesterday: who here has Ninja and Governor?

[Lost Butterfly]

Are we full-claiming amounts we spent and roles we have, or just WHAT we bid on last night?

Whoever got NK

and BP

should probably do the former. The rest can do the latter, I think.

Fixed that for you.

[Lost Butterfly]

Mhork, what made you decide to use your Medium on Pyro? Also, can you ask them if they have Ninja or Governor?

[Lost Butterfly]

"Ima channelin' mah Pyro!" as his first post instead of saying what he did last night, nor do I understand what that is supposed to even mean.

Okay so you really are that stupid. Go read page one and look at the ability list.

And in all fairness to Voided, I didn't get it either until this post.

[Lost Butterfly]

Mhork, what made you decide to use your Medium on Pyro? Also, can you ask them if they have Ninja or Governor?

Or NK?

[Lost Butterfly]

Also Tammy thinks this is fake and for show.

Why the hell are you doubting my claim? Why would I be lying?

Okay. Mhork is

definitely

talking to Tammy.

[Lost Butterfly]

Are we full-claiming amounts we spent and roles we have, or just WHAT we bid on last night?

Whoever got NK and BP should probably do the former. The rest can do the latter, I think.

Why would BP claim?

Why did BP go for far more than the nk did? Bp was bought for $191. Nk, $76. One scumteam, maybe both was/were so scared of dying to the n3 nk I guess they reasoned was already out of their hands (which I think does a little toward thinking the majority of the Five are town) that they didn't care for the n2 nk they were more sure of obtaining instead of contesting for it. If one of the six bid on it and another managed to win the nk as well (assuming it wasn't pyro, anyways), then we just stole their chance of killing another townie AND prevented them from having any chance of protection against any nks we do have for at least one night, maybe more.

Wait a minute. So...you're saying that scum are the ones who bid so much on BP, because they wanted to protect themselves from crosskills from the other team?

(In other news, the Mhork cross-examination is pointless. He's obviously in contact with Pyro due to the outside information he has, you can't infer anything at all about Pyro's read on Mhork because they'd never deliberately lie just to make Mhork look scummy, and Mhork was town anyway for stuff that happened on D1 so none of this matters.)

[Lost Butterfly]

Ghostlin: the goal was actually to check if the claims corresponded with the abilities that showed up.

OH!

Did anyone advertise $5 or less on an ability that showed up on N2?

[Lost Butterfly]

EBWOP: advertise the ability on N1, I mean.

[Lost Butterfly]

Wait - what;

UNVOTE:

Also whats with the 1.5 days compared to 18 hours?

VOTE: DoctorPepper

Trim the Dead wood. (I was going to do a comparative ISO of Voided to DP but then I saw the size difference...)

Hey, um, do you realise ellipses are scummy?

[Lost Butterfly]

(Can you please explain why you did that scummy action, thanks)

[Lost Butterfly]

^ Sorry, forgot to sign my posts. Those were both Mina. You can tell by the fact I used capitalisation!

Oh, now I see what you're getting at. Just from the sheer amount of money he's getting? I'll come back with a full meta report on him when I get some more time (going out tonight) then if we want to be absolutely sure.

Faraday thinks reading his iso this game would help you get a town read. Me? Well I'm just unsure on everything. Paralysed by fear, crippled by self doubt. Sorry...I'll stop being whiny!

~ Mina

[Lost Butterfly]

...Remind me of why I agreed to hydra with Faraday, again.

(Am a bit sad I didn't just catch Voided trying to fake a townslip when he'd already shown knowledge of the crosskill immunity. Oh, well.)

Let me ask the question a different way: since not advertising at all hurts Town's wincon but not Scum's, why aren't we metaing anyone immediately that claims to advertise nothing, particularly the first Night (Night 0)?

This is a terrible argument (speaking as someone who chose not to advertise N0, although it was the wrong move in retrospect). Should we resurrect Pyrotechnics and lynch them for not advertising anything at all? Although I agree that advertising a protown ability on N0 (when you were less accountable for it) is a point in someone's favour, that doesn't mean NOT advertising is particularly telling. For one, scum can lie about what they advertised, and for another, not advertising is a perfectly viable strategy--it means more money for actually bidding on abilities.

Since you keep bashing the plan, what would you have done differently? Do you have any improvements to suggest for tonight instead of repeating how stupid we were for going through with it? (Also, the reason to claim is so we know something's fishy if the money claimed to be transferred and the money received don't add up; Banakai's ad claims mean I don't really suspect you now, but you not revealing reduces how useful everyone else's claim is, since any discrepancy could just be because of your mystery donation.)

Also, what did you advertise on

N1

?

[Lost Butterfly]

Hey, Muffin, what are your thoughts on ProHawk being proven to have advertised Gravedigger? Does that affect your read of him? (He's someone I want to take a closer look at today. I remember thinking he came off badly in his posts at the end of D2, but I kind of skimmed his argument with you.)

tbh, i'd like to see another question asked in similar vain towards the end of the day to make sure mhork isn't deliberately misrepresenting anything they're telling him. like, i think mhork is town, but it doesn't hurt to do this

I agree with this.

[Lost Butterfly]

Hello Jacobsavage i don't think you answered my very important qs.

[Lost Butterfly]

Mhork can you tell tammy faraday says hi to her just in case she skims over this post?

[Lost Butterfly]

anyway think i'm going to a 24 hour supermarket to buy myself some chocolate hope everyone dressed up as scary monsters for halloween

[Lost Butterfly]

Wait - what;

UNVOTE:

Also whats with the 1.5 days compared to 18 hours?

VOTE: DoctorPepper

Trim the Dead wood. (I was going to do a comparative ISO of Voided to DP but then I saw the size difference...)

Hey, um, do you realise ellipses are scummy?

(Can you please explain why you did that scummy action, thanks)

^^^ @ Jacob

[Lost Butterfly]

Jacob how would you feel about being lynched today?

[Lost Butterfly]

meh, been busy with work and holliday stuffs so I'l be posting here tomorrow.

explain

[Lost Butterfly]

everyone who was "busy" should post pictures of their halloween costumes to prove they're not lying about rl circumstances imo

[Lost Butterfly]

How do you normally feel about it?

[Lost Butterfly]

I think I've been having a bit of town apathy lately. The game has sort of stalled while we were waiting for everyone to claim who they'd transferred money to, and the automatic full efficiency bonus means there's no time pressure to do anything for the next week. I should really rectify that.

[Lost Butterfly]

look! An attempt to derail the DP lynch.

[Lost Butterfly]

Actually that whole post deserves an !

[Lost Butterfly]

Firstly, I've talked with Faraday, and due to some RL distractions,

Faraday will be indefinitely V/LA for a while.

I may talk to him now and then about the game, but in the thread at least, it'll be all Mina, all the time.

I'd started a post breaking down the Pepper wagon, but then something distracted me all evening, so I'll save actual substantial stuff for tomorrow. Random thoughts:

-Are we continuing with the bidding claim? In retrospect, I'm not sure it's the best idea.

-Was debating a switch to Kingdom Aces, but I kind of vaguely like some of her more recent catch-up posts. Given that Nero could have claimed before his V/LA, his lengthy (particularly since was also like pulling teeth for me to get advertisement claims out of him) He also comes across as though he's given up today.

-Not as sure that upside down are town as I was yesterday. From my knowledge of Quilford, he doesn't like being scum and flaked on the Pandora scum-hydra in ADwD (although granted, he was fairly active on D1 in that game).

-Would like to write Garuda off as town, but having reservations. For one thing (yes, pot calling the kettle black here, and I know Empire was sick), I dislike their habit of going quiet for long periods at a time. Unlike Faraday, I actually got a favourable impression from Nacho's effort-posting spree, because he looked like he was trying to solve the game. But I felt as though some of the stuff they "liked" was shallow. For example, Seanald's point that "scum like posting when something big happens" (actually, the opposite tends to be more true on average) was silly, and what was worse was the way it was framed came off as though he was validating that as a reason to suspect us. Also, IIRC, some of the positions of reads on their lists didn't seem to quite follow from all the positive things they said in the rereads. I'm focusing on the us stuff because I'm a narcissist, my body thinks it's 5:30 AM, and it's what sticks out in my mind in such a huge thread, but I didn't like that he'd basically called most of our posts super-town but then moved us a tier lower for a couple of throwaway sentences. (I'll find examples to do with other people another day.) Finally, they'd have been a great N1 kill. Either way, he can only be RH scum.

-I've been warming up to pieguyn lately, despite disagreeing with much of what he says (was very confused. That said, random questions since I reread him.

1) So you think Mhork is fakeclaiming his connection with Pyro...but just coincidentally guessed the secret information morph had?

2)

assuming multiball

What led you to make this assumption when you did?

3) From the same post as 2:
79 from LB seems genuine[/quote]
What exactly gave you a genuine impression about that post (given that most of the game voted us for it because it was "fake", and everything in it actually WAS a complete lie)?

[Lost Butterfly]

EBWOP: the "was confused" was supposed to be by his bashing the people on the Nero wagon. On the contrary, I'm reasonably comfortable with the people on the wagon, except maybe Voided.

Actually, so this isn't buried in that massive wall I didn't even proofread because sleeeeeeeeeeeeep:

Faraday will be indefinitely V/LA from this game.

[Lost Butterfly]

(oh, and I forgot to say that even Voided isn't even a real scumread so much as a PoE null-maybe-town-I don't know-whatever-I need sleep person. And I don't even feel like editing this to make any sense)

[Lost Butterfly]

*sigh*

EBWOP:

Given that Nero could have claimed before his V/LA, his lengthy

I wanted to say it felt like he was stalling his claim. But that's hard to do using English words, apparently.

[Lost Butterfly]

You know, given all the bitching over the plan and the people who were chosen, I'm surprised that no one has suggested we reshuffle the six town reads today. Or just come up with a

new

plan involving forcing only four or five people to transfer money. Be proactive, people!

The best aspect of the current plan is that since bids are public, the people in the circle are accountable for what they can do with the money. I'm kind of on the fence to whether this makes it worth it, given that scum can pool their money and we don't know their wage or how much, but still, it makes it easier for us to catch people. For example, if the NK goes for something like $700, but there's a NK on the following night...

morph, is your logic for us treating Pere like confirmed town really that he was sent lots and lots of money, so we lose if he's scum? (There are many, many problems with this argument.) Or is there something in particular he's said?

To be honest, I'm not as sure Peregrine is town as the "late" Faraday was, so concrete reasons would be useful.

[Lost Butterfly]

EBWOP: given that scum can pool their money and we don't know their wage or how much

they have saved

.

[Lost Butterfly]

The whole "omg u r sew stupid [if you thing Mhork was implying you were lurking scum] for thinking that">>"ok well yeah, he implied that and didn't know what he was saying." seemed rather forced to me.

ok. is that it? your argument with mhork is not why i thought you were scum (the only reason it's become a conversation point is because

you

made a big deal out of it as a sticking point). the main reasons i think you're scum are that your contributions to the game, when you actually make contributions, are weak as shit. D1 your arguments for thinking harakiri was scum were bad (and i broke these down towards the end of D1) and apart from the harakiri read, i don't remember any contributions from you D1 worth noting. D2 was much of the same, except now you're either calling everyone attacking you scum or you've downgraded them to null reads. even if it's you we're talking about here, the fact you have no scum reads outside the people wagoning you is hilarious.

Eh...I find the latter part of this pretty disingenuous. (The part about Harakiri is dead-on.) 1) OMGUS-ing is not and will never be a scumtell, and 2) Nero has been attacking you, Voided, and Mhork for a really long time. Never mind that I don't think we've ever been a town read of his (at the very least, I remember we weren't in his list of six yesterday).

Muffin, on a scale from 1 to 10, how much of the confidence you project in the thread that Nero is scum is completely genuine?

[Lost Butterfly]

For the record, I hate hate hate hate HATE the argument that "if someone is scum, they've already won, so let's treat them as confirmed town." The absolute worst thing that happens if scum link up and control all the money is...the game becomes mountainous aside from the occasional shortened deadline, and we play against one big scumteam instead of two small ones.

Had stuff I wanted to say about Voided, but it'll come after work (as will stuff about the D2 wagon that I'm being too lazy to write).

[Lost Butterfly]

Nope, that was us! I'm arrogant enough to pay attention to stuff like that.

</off for real>

[Lost Butterfly]

(Not that that actually matters, anyway. I just wanted to brag.)

[Lost Butterfly]

Faramina have you decided I'm town yet

Nope.

Try harder.

[Lost Butterfly]

Also, morph's paranoia is funny. I like to think I'm

decent

as Mafia, but Faraday is much, much, MUCH better. Like, I'd rank him as one of the best scum players on this site. But anyway, his inactivity has nothing to do with our alignment, because he has RL stuff on his plate now.

Actually, ffeyrellt, now I'm wondering how you didn't hear this about Faraday, but were told I was "very good" at scum. I've been town in all my games on this site since early 2012.

[Lost Butterfly]

I have a hell of a lot more experience reading Nacho than I do you. If I had to nail a read on you, I'd worry a lot more about Garuda.

Well, seeing as Nacho's gonna be MIA in this thread until he gets steady computer access, you're gonna have to deal with me for a while so SUCK IT UP BROS.

(In all honesty, I think the way I've played this game is completely totally different from how I'd approach any game as scum but whatever this argument's unlikely to convince you.)

I know you like to bash your scum game, but what do you think you would have done differently, Empire? (Don't say, "I wouldn't have even posted!")

p-edit: If you thought all along that Faraday being disengaged was a sign we were

innocent

, then why was the only thing you said about it that Faraday's absence (

not

his lack of scumhunting) "freaked you out"? The implication was obviously that you thought it was a bad sign. And I actually AM weirded out by you knowing about my scum meta. Yes, there are players in this game who might say that, but how would

you

know?

[Lost Butterfly]

Mhork, what are Tammy's reasons for the turnaround on Nero (and on morph, but I'm much more interested in the former)?

Also, am I missing something huge in her reasons for liking ProHawk? I don't follow her logic at all. The rules say that people get the money they're transferred at the start of the following night. The description for Medium says it only lasts for the phase immediately after the player's death. So this isn't something he'd have to guess. If anything, it's more suspicious to claim that he transferred money to the one Big Six player who CAN'T verify how much was sent.

In other news, I'm really tempted to change Lost Butterfly's signature to "FARADAY'S ABSENCE IS NEITHER A SIGN WE'RE TOWN NOR A SIGN WE'RE SCUM. SERIOUSLY. IT'S BECAUSE OF STUFF UNRELATED TO THIS GAME. I PROMISE. JUST MAN/WOMAN UP AND READ OUR SLOT BASED ON ME."

[Lost Butterfly]

I'm feeling warm and fuzzy about Garuda again based on the last couple of pages. Right now other lynches I could do are ProHawk and MAYBE KingdomAces. Still don't really want to lynch Voided, although it wouldn't shock me if he was scum. Not as worried about Molla, since I read his ISO and he's a lot more relaxed and playful than I remember. But he still needs to step it up. I usually find him pretty readable when he's town despite his laziness.

I'm meaning to do my own meta research of Nero (mostly to see if he's prone to "YOU'RE ALL FUCKING MORONS FOR SUSPECTING ME, AND I'VE TOTALLY BUSTED THESE UNLIKELY PLAYERS AS SCUM FOR THESE LAME REASONS" bluster as town, or if he can fake that kind of posturing as scum), but Garuda, if you have particular games you think I should check as examples of why this is his town play and not his scum play, that would be nice. By the way, for Mhork: what does Tammy think of the "late" Faraday's point that Nero only started being angry when people attacked him for not being shouty enough?

which stuff?

i've played with nero a few times before (a couple years back) but it has nothing to do with why i think he's scum here.

LIAR SCUM FOUND!!!

vote:Muffin

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=29987

Its rather ironic that in that game Monkeyscum got lynched for pretending to have not played with me and now Muffinscum is getting lynched for lying about not having played with me recently.

Vote: Nero Cain

Here's the reason: I don't necessarily remember my scum/town games, how I fucking played, etic. This is treated as a scum slip, which is just fucking terrible but not usually scummy, but Nero's using it for the lynchpin to attempt a lynch here. Consider, for a minute the sum total of actual scum hunting he's done this game--if his questions really were fucking serious, he could of come up with a case or something this game except: 'muffin lied because he said he wasn't in a game recently, but I found a game where he was..'

It's flimsy. And considering Nero Cain's been around a bit, one would expect he'd try a tact that, oh, I don't fucking know, did something.

I don't like the timing at all of this vote. Did you ISO Nero before making this post, Ghostlin? Or read any posts of his?

That said, Nero, what exactly do you think Muffin's motivations for

lying

about this were?

[Lost Butterfly]

Actually, let's try something for a bit:

VOTE: ProHawk

[Lost Butterfly]

The claim and like his first three posts were town. Then he disappeared (which he did all over the site, so is unrelated to alignment).

[Lost Butterfly]

I don't like the timing at all of this vote. Did you ISO Nero before making this post, Ghostlin? Or read any posts of his?

Are you fucking kidding me?

Nero Cain has intermittently gone between periods of inactivity and things that look LIKE activity. He's not what we call a high content poster this game, but ignoring THAT for a minute, that post ALONE was worthy of a fucking vote.

His entire predicate on that post is based on two things: one, the fact that Muffin forgetting about a game whereupon Nero once played with him (and as PA pointed out in our hydra thread, was the kind of game you have long drinks to forget and was playing with an alt) deliberately and maliciously, and that he could use that for actual scum motivation versus any other motivation including 'gee, I forgot we even played that game'.

Nero's been around this game a bit longer than we have. You wouldn't accept that bullshit from me, so why would you, in any conceivable universe, accept it from him?

Is that a yes or a no? Have you read Nero's other posts?

Because if you had (or read my argument with Muffin over whether his OMGUSing is scummy--I liked Muffin's responses, although my question about the genuineness of his push WASN'T rhetorical), you'd realize that Nero has, in fact, attacked Muffin (for silly reasons) long before his "big smoking gun." Understandable considering you're a replacement, but I wanted to hear your explanation, because the stated reason was superficial.

Also, from what little I've gathered of Nero's meta, no one here is holding him to burden of proficiency standards. (I mean, I found the "Muffinscum is getting lynched" line to be posturing, and I'm very interested in hearing Nero's explanation for the dastardly scum motivation behind Muffin lying about that. But it's not completely inconceivable that town would get excited over catching a scum read in a big "contradiction"? There are much better reasons to suspect Nero than his join date.)

[Lost Butterfly]

Something I noticed when answering ProHawk's question about Seanald (it's partly sheeping Nacho's meta reasons, partly kind of liking his brashness on a gut level, and partly just feeling like he's an easy vote-a-low-posting-weak-player-because-we-have-nothing-better-to-do lynch).

We need your top six town reads (excluding yourself) and the 5 abilities you think are most important to advertise.

Alrighty.

TownReads

Morph
Garuda
Lost butterfly
Muffin
Nero
Pieguy

Abilities

Market analyst
coroner
Doctor
Cop
Commuter

Why didn't you put Austerity Measures on this list?

[Lost Butterfly]

@ProHawk:

please

don't start another argument over how obvtown Hermy was again. But it's totally possible to read weakish, lurky players (in fact, sometimes they're the easiest to read because they can't fool people). And for me, it had nothing to do with the deadline. I genuinely thought Hermy was really, really, REALLY incompetent scum. Turns out she was just really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, REALLY incompetent town.

Either way, he can only be RH scum.

Why is that?

Because you're not DoctorPepper's scumbuddy?

On that note:

i'm having second thoughts about voided atm.

i don't really see voided-scum making sense as a DP partner - some people are saying his vote looked like a bus, but i don't see it.

and i don't see him going, "yeah, i'm really just voting him out of self-preservation" as scum - that sounded more like something i'd expect voided to be saying truthfully as town.

Um...

[Lost Butterfly]

Post coming later this evening. But right now, I'm doubting basically all my suspicions.

[Lost Butterfly]

PV, I just remembered that you were in MattP's Large Normal as well, so you should know that I'm completely useless even when I am caught up to the game.

Anyway, reading Nero now.

D1 Nero spent the entire time calling Hana scum for sheeping Nacho. I agree that she shouldn't have been doing that but it was pointed out several times by several people that it was completely null, yet he continued to press it. The other points (contradicting themselves, saying that Eagle is good enough to fake a townslip as scum.) were just as weak, since self-contradiction is only an indication that someone isn't sure of something, and... I just don't understand how the latter is scummy at all. D2, the entire day for him was arguing that Mhork didn't make him appear. Honestly, that entire thing was ridiculous, as well as completely null and I don't know why anyone let it continue as long as it did.

Doing D3 later. From the first two days though, it seemed like all he ever did was pressure people for doing things that were wrong, even though they weren't actually scummy. That's the easiest way to fake content as scum, and the fact that he hasn't really done all that much else on those days makes me lean scum on him. I'll finish this tomorrow.

I'm convinced.

UNVOTE

VOTE: KingdomAces

What's the problem with the second quote? Although professing a scum read on the largest wagon is convenient in her shoes, the actual points she's making are perfectly valid.

[Lost Butterfly]

I guess there's one way to answer that: upside down and ProHawk, how much did you advertise Cop and Gravedigger for?

$15 for Gravedigger
$30 for Doc

Morph, I really need that Meta-Dive from you soon.

You advertised Doctor when Doctor was already up for auction?

Also, that's annoying. None of Banakai's actions are 100% confirmed now (since he claimed Commuter after it had already shown up). Agree with Garuda that the spread of abilities looks townish, though.

Also also, sorry, Harakiri (not that another neighbourizer advertisement claim changes things at this point). I can't do the same thing with the N1 advertisements until we see what abilities show up on N2.

@Lost- Would like to see your N1 advertisements conclusions since we saw the abilities that showed up n2.

Also, your scumlist please.

The N1 advertisements are almost completely useless, because everything left showed up last night except for Tracker, every ability was accounted for (at least, I'm taking people's word for it, since I didn't keep track of the claims myself), no one claimed to have advertised less than the $5 Muffin spent on Tracker, and Muffin himself said he might have advertised a protown ability as scum. I don't think there's much point in analyzing the claims, either, because advertising whatever you promised D1 was null. You're outed if you pocket the money and the ability you were responsible for is removed from the list.

It's interesting that DoctorPepper thought it was safe to claim to advertise Tracker, but either he just chose a random protown ability, or Muffin is LH whose team spent the $5 (and Muffin posted something that could have been a RH slip earlier). So again, useless.

However, thanks for reminding me of something, PeregrineV!

Before we lynch, everyone claim what they advertised on N2.

(I advertised nothing last night, because I had a better use for my funds.)

I'll save the scum list for another post for readability. At the time, I'd already said was Nero/ProHawk/KingdomAces, but now a lot of my reads are in flux.

[Lost Butterfly]

I'd CTRL+X'd my post on suspects, but accidentally overwrote it in my clipboard, so this first:

So just looked it up. I was asking that question for a purpose.

The fact that my slot never got slammed means something weird is going on consdering almost all the lynches have been pushed, as a starting reason, for being lurkish and inactive.
Day 1 that happens, day 2 a scum got hit, and day three, the slot doing the worst lurking got pretty much nothing. That leads me to believe, given that I'm town, that alot of bussing happened on the Dr. Pepper wagon otherwise stuff starts to not make sense.

If nero is town, which I think he is, that means even more likely that scum was on Dr. pepper unless my skim of the early parts of today was incorrect.

Not that it really matters, but your slot WAS wagoned on D2. In fact, people even suggested

quicklynching

Klick (before he pulled the shameless self-vote + fake-replace-out/fake-replace-in/real-replace-out routine). Did you remember that but decide it didn't count? Also, why do you seem so focused on your predecessors and the reactions they got? Why not ask why we didn't wagon Zdenek, Banakai, or guille?

[Lost Butterfly]

Jacob put 5 each on cop, tracker, wage freeze and watcher.

Nothing on doctor?

[Lost Butterfly]

Dammit, Espeonage. I thought I'd found a smoking gun and got all excited:

I sent $150 to pieguyn.

Advatised $25 on everything said.

Kept $50 because klick spent nothing.

Aren't I a good townie

[Lost Butterfly]

ok. is that it? your argument with mhork is not why i thought you were scum (the only reason it's become a conversation point is because

you

made a big deal out of it as a sticking point). the main reasons i think you're scum are that your contributions to the game, when you actually make contributions, are weak as shit.

D1 your arguments for thinking harakiri was scum were bad (and i broke these down towards the end of D1) and apart from the harakiri read,i don't remember any contributions from you D1 worth noting. D2 was much of the same, except now you're either calling everyone attacking you scum or you've downgraded them to null reads. even if it's you we're talking about here, the fact you have no scum reads outside the people wagoning you is hilarious.

Here's muffin saying that my case on Hara is scummy.

If I weren't so lazy I could quote you where my cases are called shitty all the time. Its a really lazy point to begin with but you thinking that's a scumtell, much less a scumtell for me, is pants on head.

it isn't about the quality of your case, it's about how it was dismantled at the end of D1 and you still pushing it when it was nonsensical.

Here's were he says it was not scummy but then says my continued pushing is scummy.

The fact Muffin is whining about it prob means its a scum slot. What Voided did was scummy as fuck so that's what we are killing today.

Nero: Muffin backtracked
Voided: Muffins backtrack is suspicious
Muffin: ZOMG!! Nero tampered with my post.
Voided: Yep Nero tampered with that

He obviously doesn't give a shit and is just agreeing with whatever is said.

It pains me to say this, but Nero is actually dead-on about Voided.

The whole argument about Muffin's reasons for suspecting him is irrelevant and based on semantics. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that at some point this game, Muffin has attacked Nero for clinging to his Harakiri stance for too long.

I've

attacked Nero for that, at any rate. And it doesn't matter if in one cherry-picked post, Muffin calls Nero scum for having bad reasons to tunnel on Harakiri as opposed to bad

and

static reasons. I hate that Nero is pushing that angle.

HOWEVER, in that particular post, Muffin doesn't say anything about Nero's Harakiri read being static. The other stuff that Nero didn't quote are reasons Muffin suspects him, but NOT reasons that are related to Harakiri.

So Voided doing a 180 and latching onto Muffin's tampering accusation without any critical thinking is lazy.

(On that note, there's stuff I want to say about Muffin, but I'll probably save it for tomorrow. The short version is that I'm paranoid of him, because some of the aggression and condescension in his pushes seems overblown.)

I liked that Ghostly Penguin had no motivation as scum to unvote NC when they did (at least, assuming Nero is not on their scumteam). That said, penguin_alien, what games have you played with Nero? What similarities do you see to his town game? ("This is closer to Nero's town meta" seems to be an oft-parroted opinion this game. I've been too lazy to read his games myself and see if it's based on truth, since Garuda is a meanie who didn't hand them to me on a platter.) And what happened to Ghostlin's hyperbolic statements about Nero's play being the lurkiest, most useless thing ever?

In other news, Espeonage is town.

[Lost Butterfly]

I'm too tired to rewrite my reads post, and it was mostly just wishy-washy garbage, anyway. So I'll just say that morph and Garuda are town, Mhork is still probably town, I need to ask Faraday why he was so confident on PeregrineV being town, my baldeagle town read is losing its muster, pieguy is a dark horse scumspect, I still like upside down and think the N0 cop advertisement is a big point in their favour but have some paranoia just because of some posts whose only motivation is to troll and Quilford taking a back seat, and I'm not really feeling the Harakiri paranoia.

[Lost Butterfly]

Shouldn't you wait to hear what I was going to say before defending yourself from it, Muffin?

Speaking of people who lack critical thinking: anyone who advertised Tracker last night because "that was the plan." I could have used those four dollars, jerks.

[Lost Butterfly]

VOTE: Nero Cain

[Lost Butterfly]

What the fuck did I miss?

[Lost Butterfly]

-Claim if you have any of the red abilities.

-Use Wage Freeze immediately if you have it.

-Mhork claims if he's channeling morph.

-Claim what you advertised (I dropped $6 on Bulletproof).

-Everyone claims who they transferred money to last night. Also claim your N2 target if you haven't already, or if you decided to do something creative.

VOTE: KingdomAces

[Lost Butterfly]

1 Self Watch
2 Federal Reserve Chairman
2 Neighbourizer
10 to LB
50 to Morph

In the event of Deadline hitting, Happy to vote with pretty much any wagon. Preferences being Muffin, Kingdom, Garuda.

So you transferred all your money last night as per morph's plan?

[Lost Butterfly]

I only really caught up with the end-of-day fiasco after Seanald had flipped and didn't bother to do the math myself, but actually, at the point where his bids matched up

perfectly

with what his amounts would say if he just looked at his QT, it should have been obvious that he wasn't Because it meant he was getting those numbers from his actual PMs/quicktopics, and given how terrible the rest of his play was, he couldn't have faked a townslip like that. In any rate, this is a really superficial reason to vote Muffin. His reaction didn't come across as particularly unreasonable or informed. (In fact, at the time, I'd thought both he and Voided came out of the end-of-day clusterfuck looking really good.)

[Lost Butterfly]

EBWOP: it should have been obvious that he

was town

.

[Lost Butterfly]

...um, EBWOP AGAIN, "what his amounts would say if he just looked at Magua posting the amounts of money he had left in the QT before he found out if he was getting anything back."

[Lost Butterfly]

1 Self Watch
2 Federal Reserve Chairman
2 Neighbourizer
10 to LB
50 to Morph

In the event of Deadline hitting, Happy to vote with pretty much any wagon. Preferences being Muffin, Kingdom, Garuda.

So you transferred all your money last night as per morph's plan?

No

...well, it was worth a try.

[Lost Butterfly]

Was I allowed to bid on anything? Would have won doctor if I could

Abductor x 1
Auction Detective x 2
Austerity Measures x 1
Bulletproof x 2
Coroner x 2
Extra Vote x 1
Federal Reserve Chairman x 1
Governor x 1
Gravedigger x 1
Love Potion x 1
Market Analyst x 3
Medium x 3
Roleblocker x 3
Self-Watch x 1
Tailor x 3

I bid $5 on all these

...

...

...

...

...

...

...

*headdesk*

I'm curious. What was the thought process behind these "bids"?

[Lost Butterfly]

^I was actually in the middle of posting about that:

Ffery, do you agree or disagree that Nero and I need to be sorted tomorrow in some way, shape, or form? I'm just beginning to have a sinking feeling that we're all that's going to be talked about.

Seanald's posts overnight make me very cool with his lynch. If I'm alive tomorrow I'll take up the albatross again.

It seems more like Nero and I should be lynched just for the sake of preventing us from being mouthpieces for everyone else to chew on and prevent them from getting anything else done, doesn't it?

That doesn't fill me with much hope.

P-EDIT: In that I have to tell Mag that I'm using it for it to take effect? No, you're not wrong. I actually have a PM ready to send for it.

Oh, and for LB since she asked.

By the time I wake up and get home from college, we'll only have a day left. I'm fine with being a deadline lynch since I'm the majority--as much as I don't WANT to be--but I would hope that Nero or Seanald gets lynched instead. And I'd prefer to use my Extra Vote before I die so scum can't graverob it off me if they bought it N0.

To the people still scumreading Voided, do any of these posts feel like scum about to be lynched? For one thing, he looks way too

relaxed

. There isn't even any desperation when he suggests Nero or Seanald get lynched instead. Also, he's talking about himself and Nero as distractions who have to be dealt with, which is not a PoV that would come naturally to scum. He seems very accepting of his own demise and eager to help the town (although the paranoia over a weak ability like Extra Vote being Gravedug is silly, it reads like townie paranoia).

[Lost Butterfly]

MORPH.

COME BACK TO LIFE, PLEASE.

*sobs*

[Lost Butterfly]

BBmolla, where did you run off to minutes after claiming?

I assume you have more braincells than Seanald. Please justify your

love

actions.

No, n/a, n/a, $10 on FRC, $5 on bulletproof, $100 to one of pie and garuda, and I reconfirm I transferred to Pere N2

ugh wtf
I went to go verify you nominated FRC back when everyone was posting their top abilities to advertise (since afaik I was the only one who wanted FRC) and I just realized you never even claimed the top 5 abilities you'd want to advertise. can you explain why not plz?

uwop I don't give a shit how bad my vote is get the hell off me and make a good vote. or are you attacking me because you're zmuffin's buddy

This last line is so filled with :goodposting:, like so much.

Sorry to be mean, but this post is not :goodposting:.

[Lost Butterfly]

Mina, he's talking specifically talking about the line to ud, not the post as a whole.

Actually, I meant that Espeonage's post wasn't being goodposting. The line he quoted is silly and OMGUS-y. "Oh, you're voting me because of that post? Try again. Or are you Muffin's buddy?" I mean, given that I also thought pie's Muffin vote was for really superficial reasoning (although pie's point about not wanting to vote-park on Voided is valid), I thought upside down's vote came in a really natural place. But then Espeonage just compounds the stupidity and hyperbole. Omigod, you voted someone and criticized their vote on another player. This makes you their scumbuddy! Chainsaw! More buzzwords!

And what do you mean by "gut level," Voided? That you get a good gut feeling about pie's post? That you've noticed the same thing as pieguyn about upside down's treatment of them this game?

(pieguyn's follow-up post and upside down vote have much more

conviction

than the Muffin vote did, in that it reminds me of a Pyro-style persecuted townie, although I don't like pie going, "Oh, you can't call my posting bad because I was

tired

!" The actual REASONING has holes, but I haven't been following pie's interactions with ud closely this game and would prefer to hear upside down defend themselves.)

[Lost Butterfly]

Off to bed, but here are where my reads are at:

Town:
Harakiri
Lord Mhork
Garuda (although I don't like their passivity lately)

Probably town:
PeregrineV
pieguyn
upside down
Voidedmafia
Muffin

Dunno:
baldeagle
Espeonage

Suspicious:
KingdomAces
Nero
ProHawk
BBmolla

There's also a mystery read that might change places depending on later developments. I can explain any of them if someone's interested (the "dunno"s were almost in "probably town", but upon reflection I downgraded them).

[Lost Butterfly]

Oh, also, Empire, be realistic. You're never actually going to finish a "meta report" of Peregrine at this rate. And no one is interested in a wall of text with links upon links. Why don't you just write 2-3 paragraphs on why you think this looks like her?

Also, a meta report I'd be much more interested in is one on Nero. I still want specifics from you and penguin_alien on why this his townself. Penguin in particular given her slot's sudden stance shift on him.

Oh, that reminds me. Ghostly Penguin is in Probably Town based 100% on Ghostlin's rant about the plan (the rest of their play is more "Dunno").

(That said, while I'm at it, Muffin, which players in particular do you think are scum defending Nero by calling this his town meta?)

[Lost Butterfly]

EBWOP: 2-3 paragraphs describing whether you think Peregrine is playing more like town!Pere or scum!Pere.

[Lost Butterfly]

BBMolla I love how you bid a lot on everything but wage freeze

~Sakura Hana

If you're going to scum claim, go all fucking in?

Did you check what you were quoting before latching onto it as evidence for BBmolla scum? Sakura obviously misread the post, since Molla had quoted the list of Not Yet Advertised abilities (and the two he DIDN'T advertise disappeared). So he must have misspoke and said "bid" instead of "advertised." If you'd read the list (and

advertised Wage Freeze like you'd said

), shouldn't you have known Wage Freeze couldn't be advertised tonight?

Also, who did you transfer your money to on N2, and how much did you send?

I feel like I'm alone in liking upside down more and pieguyn less after their back-and-forth.

KingdomAces, do you have actual opinions on pieguyn and upside down? It seems like you're interjecting yourself into the argument to quibble over a minor point and discuss Mafia theory, without telling us what it says about their alignments. Also, is it fair to say that you're very passive and wishy-washy this game?

[Lost Butterfly]

EBWOP: Okay, Wage Freeze

could

be advertised, but you know what I mean. It wasn't on the Not Yet Auctioned list.

[Lost Butterfly]

BUT WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY. WHY DID YOU ADVERTISE THE THINGS YOU DID? WHY WHY WHY? THERE IS LITERALLY NO TOWN MOTIVATION AT ALL FOR IT, UNLESS YOU THINK THAT TAILOR JUST SEWS PEOPLE BULLETPROOF VESTS OR SOMETHING.

That said, you're right and GP is wrong about the Seanald vote (never mind that your "distancing from the lynch" wasn't scummy in context).

[Lost Butterfly]

Oh, I didn't even notice you'd left Neighbourizer and Messenger off the list. I was focused on the last two. (I disagree with your ranking of the abilities, but it's plausible you believe it, so that's what matters.)

[Lost Butterfly]

Tailor literally just counters cop, IF the cop selects the same target, IF the cop is town, and IF the tailor is anti town.

The 4 I excluded could be more effective for scum to have against the town as a whole.

For future reference, this is not true.

Tailor x 3 (Targeted): Choose another player. Name

an investigative ability

and a result: if that ability is used on that player this Night, it will return

your specified result

instead of the real one -- the mod will perform all necessary formatting.

I'd asked Magua about this earlier: it works on any targeted ability. So even something like Accountant or Watcher is vulnerable to Tailor.

[Lost Butterfly]

IMPORTANT PSA

If you are seriously pushing someone as scum based on said player

not having been lynched yet

, in a multifaction large game where most of the people are still alive and (if the set-up is the same as last game) a given scumbag has only one or two allies to push an agenda, then you are

ridiculous

.

Muffin, I'm including you here. How does it feel to be in the same camp as Nero? HOW DOES IT FEEL? *cackles*

Thank you, town, and have a nice day. You may now resume your regularly scheduled program of arguing bad Mafia theory, and consistently failing to win useful abilities, and getting yourselves lynched by botching your claims, and wasting all your money advertising abilities that are antitown or are doomed to be removed from the game, and vote-freezing people to show you mean business, and whining self-righteously about about how badly everyone else is playing instead of doing something actually productive...ahem.

P.S.: Do we have time to redo the plan? I'm thinking a straightforward "four top scumreads as voted by the thread transfer money to one of four top townreads."

======================

Molla, you really don't think those posts of Voided look town? It's not "OMIGOD, SCUM WOULD NEVER SAY THIS" (and I still wouldn't bet the game on Voided-town). But they still look much more like town accepting his fate.

Can you sell me on why you still think he's scum? Your reasons for suspecting him have felt lazy this game.

Scum have both cop and NK. I was probably locked-out of those auctions.
Not sure if it was one team or combination of both.

Not true. You being locked out (since you're the richest player in the game) means that scum must have TRIED for both abilities, but not that they won.

Cop going for much lower than I'd expected means that you're almost certainly telling the truth about being locked out on

that

ability, at least (and also means the scumteam(s) who went for it is/are poor and thus not in the circle). So that's relatively comforting.

Also:

Dirty Tricks ($$$): You have a number of dirty tricks at your disposal. Each Night, each member of your team may perform one of these (if desired);

however, each Dirty Trick may only be performed once per Night.

So that means both factions were out to get you.

[Lost Butterfly]

@Voided: he's not confirmed town, because he could conceivably have been locked out of one bid and lied about the other. (If anyone else in the game thinks they've been locked out last night, then he's a confirmed liar, due to the one-Dirty-Trick-per-night clause.) But I think he's almost certainly telling the truth about being locked out of Cop (given that he could have spent far more than the winning bid on it with all the people who'd claimed to send money his way), at least. And he looks town, anyway.

Haradrunkiri, there's a non-zero chance I may vote ProHawk today after some rereading, but sorry, I'm not going to rush just for an extra $5 or $10 that means nothing this late in the game.

[Lost Butterfly]

(I forgot to quote what I was responding to--Peregrine being confirmed town, I mean.)

[Lost Butterfly]

B-b-but they're so pretty, and their song so beautiful!

You agree Prohawk is scum right?

He's a slightly stale town read but he was preaching anarchy before anarchy was cool + cabd/ffery town read means nope not gonna lynch that.

Um...what?

[Lost Butterfly]

@Voided: he's not confirmed town, because he could conceivably have been locked out of one bid and lied about the other. (If anyone else in the game thinks they've been locked out last night, then he's a confirmed liar, due to the one-Dirty-Trick-per-night clause.) But I think he's almost certainly telling the truth about being locked out of Cop (given that he could have spent far more than the winning bid on it with all the people who'd claimed to send money his way), at least. And he looks town, anyway.

Haradrunkiri, there's a non-zero chance I may vote ProHawk today after some rereading, but sorry, I'm not going to rush just for an extra $5 or $10 that means nothing this late in the game.

He looks very town right about now. That reread is going awfully slow, by the way.

Are you talking about Peregrine or ProHawk? Because if it's the latter, are we reading the same game? His posting today has been awful, and not even in a town confused newbie awful way. Just a really blah awful. I mean, this post alone is just terrible:

The only true nulls are in instances where a player does something in every game/close to every game. Natirasha's self voting is one of those instances. Sakura sheeping me is another.

Thats cool. Let me do every freaking anti-town thing in every freaking game so that when I do draw scum, I won't get lynched for it.

VOTE: Voided

His hesitance to hammer town so that someone "more town/less scummy" could hammer is pure scum.

By the way, ProHawk, how is what Voided did different from your reactions to the D1 Hermy lynch?

And since you asked me before why I suspected him, aside from the Hermy stuff, I feel like his stances and reads aren't organic. Leaving aside the weird Hermy stuff, suspecting us D1 when there was momentum against us but then completely dropping it, the very rigid stances on upside down and Harakiri... (I'll be honest--I'm going completely off memory now, because it's time for bed and I don't feel like ISO-ing. So I might retract some of this in the morning.) I also thought he came out badly in his argument with Muffin at the end of D2, and did barely anything on D3. And honestly, it's also a large part process of elimination and lack of anything all that

town

beyond a few irritable-sounding posts.

Of the posts you called "genuine," the paranoia of ffereyllt and her lack of "trajectory" looks good, most of the others were mildly townish but fakeable, the reasons for voting me I didn't like, and I'm honestly WORRIED by the fact that you used his post about a completely alignment-neutral stance on self-voting as a reason to town-read him.

I do remember liking some of his early D2 posts when he was wagoned, and also, I thought he'd improved after morph and I went after him at the end of D3. And I'd also liked ProHawk's post second-guessing his scumread on me for my gambit, back on D1. But I don't like that he seems to get much more fire in him when he's under pressure, though.

Are both of you posting at the same time (I

think

I've spotted both Nacho and Empire posts)? Because your posts on ProHawk seem to be all over the place. Also, if you don't mind me asking, how sober are (each of) you right now?

Also, really? "Coming awful slow" to reread several suspects at minimum and possibly huge sections of the game, as well as analyze it and write out my conclusions? At two-thirty on a Friday night? Is this a hollow attempt to put pressure on me?

[Lost Butterfly]

B-b-but they're so pretty, and their song so beautiful!

You agree Prohawk is scum right?

He's a slightly stale town read but he was preaching anarchy before anarchy was cool + cabd/ffery town read means nope not gonna lynch that.

^wait, that wasn't Empire? I thought +s were an Empire tell.

[Lost Butterfly]

By the way, my last incoherent, poorly edited wall was up-to-date as of 3356, you dirty spammers.

What's wrong with the post you quoted? The frustration voiced is probably more alignment neutral than anything else, and I don't remember how the voided hammer went down but I'm pretty sure pro hawk didn't want to hammer hermy because he didn't think hermy was scum.

1) The whining about Harakiri being "antitown" and getting away with it set off alarms. Aside from Nati's self-vote and Sakura's Nacho sheeping not even being THAT "antitown", it's something I associate more with scum annoyed that this concrete "scummy" thing can't be used against someone.
2) It's a lazy, shallow, silly reason to vote Voided (who's also a pretty convenient target in this game). I mean, really, Voided offered to hammer, but then essentially went, "Everyone suspects me, so maybe someone whose opinion they value should unilaterally decide whether to end the day." That's null at worst, town at best. And no one loses town cred by hammering a townie at deadline, so ProHawk's point is absurd.
3) I know it's not identical, and didn't mean to imply by my question that I found the post terrible for that reason. But I want to hear what

ProHawk

says, even though the connection isn't that obvious.

I DID like his thoughts on the investigative immune catch and the line about "I'm not as sure now of what I saw, but I still think you're scum" back on D1, but I'd got the impression he didn't initially provide an explanation on his change in read. It just felt like it happened without much fanfare. It's the same problem I have with baldeagle, for the record (that their suspicions of our slot aligned with the group's opinions). Also, I'd been scumhunting even before I came forward with the gambit, as well as during the time he was still calling me scum, so I'm confused by what changed.

I guess I'm confused by how vigorously you're defending ProHawk. It seems earnest and well-intentioned on your end, and I know you're more someone who works on PoE and town reads (I am too to an extent). But I'm not as willing as you are to give him the benefit of the doubt on some things. Maybe it's because I've never seen him play, so I have no clue if his stances always look "rigid" ir he's prone to weird reads.

[Lost Butterfly]

Calling you out for being slow wasn't a hollow attempt to pressure you? I thought #3350 sort of gave it away as trolling, but apparently not

You're the one who called me slow.

Hey, you know what was a really interesting read? That nice meta report on PeregrineV your slot wrote two weeks ago. Boy, that was enlightening!

[Lost Butterfly]

Oh, speaking of which, assuming I didn't miss the answer to this:

Oh, also, Empire, be realistic. You're never actually going to finish a "meta report" of Peregrine at this rate. And no one is interested in a wall of text with links upon links. Why don't you just write 2-3 paragraphs on why you think this looks like her?

Also, a meta report I'd be much more interested in is one on Nero. I still want specifics from you and penguin_alien on why this his townself. Penguin in particular given her slot's sudden stance shift on him.

I know someone asked me to explain why I suspected KingdomAces, but that can come tomorrow.

[Lost Butterfly]

I have neighbourizer!

[Lost Butterfly]

Also, I think today is time for a massclaim. There's more stuff I'll say after it.

On that note, Peregrine's neighbours should claim if they're still alive.

[Lost Butterfly]

I have neighbourizer!

Hit me up tonight.

We'll see.

[Lost Butterfly]

Why did you spend a bagillion dollars on Neighborizer and not NK?

Because if scum link up this game, we're fucked. So I figured I'd use my loads and loads of cash for something constructive.

I considered NK, but figured it was more likely that someone like Peregrine also bid on it (since he'd mentioned trying for it on N3 and being blocked). So I didn't want to double up.

[Lost Butterfly]

(Oh, also, I figured it was safer to go all in for an ability that

wasn't

in red, since we don't know how scum can interfere with red bids.)

[Lost Butterfly]

Empire, I know you're reading this thread. Are you scum this game? You kind of

feel

like scum.

Don't worry. I promise I won't tell anyone if you are.

[Lost Butterfly]

Also, in case I don't have time to post until I leave

V/LA from Friday, November 22nd until Sunday, November 24th, due to a family occasion.

And I'm serious about massclaim.

I'm arbitrarily popcorning to Nero Cain because I say so and no one else will take initiative otherwise.

[Lost Butterfly]

Where has LB been the past two days, anyways?

Away in Toronto all weekend with no computer access for a Bar Mitzvah! (Hence the V/LA.)

I'm working now, but just want to say that the upside down miniwagon was horrible and I found both ProHawk and baldeagle's reaction to it opportunistic and suspicious--in particular, baldeagle using upside down's vote on Pie as his ONLY reason for voting him. Upside down's pieguyn vote wasn't even scummy! pie's case had more to do with how ud interacted with him earlier in the game and that vote being the culmination of all that. But it seems like baldeagle heard other people call that post scummy and just parroted it.

Muffin, when exactly did your Garuda scumread suddenly appear? It feels like you didn't suspect them all that much until people were seriously discussing them as a lynch option.

(FWIW, I'm actually confused by where the sudden scumreads on Garuda are coming from. My suspicions are mostly because Empire isn't posting, they've been passive and prone to attacking weaker players at times, and Faraday (who is much better at reading players like Empire and Nacho than I am) thought they were scummy when I asked him for advice about the game last night. But the reasons other people are suspecting them seem to boil down to, "They're one of the town leaders, and they're wrong sometimes.")

[Lost Butterfly]

Also, ProHawk, hypothetically, let's say I had a guilty investigation on you.

Hypothetically speaking

, of course. What would be the cause of that?

[Lost Butterfly]

Jacob put 5 each on cop, tracker, wage freeze and watcher.

Jacob put 5 each on cop, tracker, wage freeze and watcher.

Nothing on doctor?

Yeah, sorry. I didn't copy paste from the PM I got, missed it.

I still think this looks like a legit town slip rather than him changing his story when under pressure. (FTR, Jacob had already claimed to have advertised all five things in the thread, though.)

pieguyn, question. When you replaced in, were you sent a PM with all your predecessor's actions?

[Lost Butterfly]

Also, ProHawk, hypothetically, let's say I had a guilty investigation on you.

Hypothetically speaking

, of course. What would be the cause of that?

What kind of question is this?

Is your name ProHawk? No? Then why do you have thoughts on it?

[Lost Butterfly]

Well...you're allowed to have

thoughts

on it, but you know what I mean.

What about it that wasn't scummy to you? I thought it was pretty scummy when I first saw it.

I'm pretty sure I already gave my thoughts on why I found that vote to be in a natural place on Day 4. But you first. What exactly

was

scummy about it?

Also, what's your current read on Muffin?

[Lost Butterfly]

I’m against a mass claim unless I get a pretty good reason why we should mass claim. It just seems like fishing to me. LB also needs to explain what they did with the info they already had. D1 or D2 they were asking for claims and said they’d explain later so they can either explain or link me to where they already explained.

Relevant.

I think we should massclaim because we're a day away from LYLO, traditional scumhunting is failing us, and everyone knows where the power roles are concentrated, anyway. And I think in a set-up this complex, at least one person is guaranteed to mess up their claim somewhere. My

only

best skill as a scumhunter is catching people in role contradictions and scumslips. And that's leaving aside roles like Market Analyst or Coroner that could do all sorts of delicious things with the results.

Oddly, though, I think I

like

Nero's refusal to massclaim. This probably makes me a terrible person.

On that note, Voided, Nero, Espeonage, and ProHawk, who did you send money last night? And ProHawk, who did you send money on N3?

[Lost Butterfly]

In that case:

Wrt upsides vote on pie

Because chainsaw defense on muffin.

Define "chainsaw defense" in your own words.

[Lost Butterfly]

Bah.

I kind of wanted him to claim first, but I might as well come forward and say that I have a completely meaningless "Not Mafia" result on Nero Cain. So given that scum are guaranteed to have investigation immunity, that means he's...50% less likely to be scum.

So...I don't really know who I want to lynch.

[Lost Butterfly]

And...now I've basically guaranteed I won't get a second useful result. But it was obviously me after Peregrine and pie were ruled out.

Nero, do your part and don't be Mafia.

[Lost Butterfly]

Fuck. I probably shouldn't have said anything and let him be lynched. And not bothered with that transparent half-assed ProHawk reaction test.

Go, me! I'm a moron.

[Lost Butterfly]

Fuck. I probably shouldn't have said anything and let him be lynched. And not bothered with that transparent half-assed ProHawk reaction test.

Go, me! I'm a moron.

I still don't understand what the hell that was about, so I wouldn't cry even half tears if you explained that one to me. Did you expect him to be like "lol I wouldn't get cop guilted because I have investigation immunity?".

I'm not saying it was a brilliant reaction test. But I felt like it was objectively

superior

to just posting my innocent right away.

The problem was that I was originally going to claim LAST, so I didn't set up a fake-guilty gambit. Then when it became obvious by PoE that I was the cop and no one seemed remotely interested in a massclaim, I just waffled for a while on whether I should just say nothing and try to defend Nero, say nothing and NOT defend Nero, or come forward. Then I just felt like it was a waste not to use the role to get

some

information, so figured I might as well try a reaction test, first. (I actually debated faking a guilty on

Nero

, but then realized he could probably give a genuine-seeming response as scum since he knew I was lying.) Ideally, the thought was that ProHawk would react awkwardly, and maybe I would even posture for a bit to look like I

did

have a guilty. But it became obvious that ProHawk wasn't going to give an interesting response, and continuing it would have been yet another "I have investigation immunity!"-style distraction.

[Lost Butterfly]

Bah.

I kind of wanted him to claim first, but I might as well come forward and say that I have a completely meaningless "Not Mafia" result on Nero Cain. So given that scum are guaranteed to have investigation immunity, that means he's...50% less likely to be scum.

So...I don't really know who I want to lynch.

You should probably just say fuck that result and help us lynch Nero Cain. I have played with him plenty of times, and this just isn't his town meta.

Then why didn't you say something about this days ago, when I was bugging your slot to explain where your Nero meta town read came from?

Also, I assume this was hydra dissonance?

is this out of fear that he's going to downgrade you to his null/scum pile, or do you really think nero is town?

Um, there are many things I fear in the world of mafia; Nero Cain is just about the last thing that would ever make that list.

Realtalk, though, I do actually think Nero is town based on what I know of his meta. As town, he tends to be a lot more abrasive / confrontational in his interactions with other people and he's also a lot more egocentric (posts like #696 are what I'm talking about). From what I remember seeing in his scum games, he tends to tone that down a lot and is just plain nowhere near as aggressive. I'm definitely seeing a lot more of the former in this game.

[Lost Butterfly]

Lots of stuff to respond to right now.

I'm somewhat concerned by the fact that Garuda started pushing Nero extremely hard

after

I came out with an innocent. In Muffin's case, it makes sense, because he's been attacking Nero for ages. But you guys were town-reading him for most of the game, including when most of the stuff happened that you said sounds nothing like his town self (like the reaction to the doorknob dig). Yes, I understand that now is the time to reevaluate your prior reads. But even today, you gave me the impression you were somewhat lukewarm on the wagon, but were making a PoE "counterwagon to upside down" vote.

And it's worrisome because in this particular set-up, you would not

know

Nero's alignment if you were evil. So you would have an added incentive to push his lynch once someone came out with evidence he wasn't an ally (particularly if you're on whichever side has investigation immunity).

I mean, I do think it's best just to ignore the result and evaluate Nero based on his play, but it's kind of weird that

everyone

has reacted to it with a collective snore. Not one person is trying to defend him with the "this lynch is

statistically

less likely to hit scum" card.

@LB, chainsaw defense is where you attack the attacker, who is attacking the person you are defending.

Hmm. You're missing something here. In your own words, can you explain why this behaviour is scummy?

(I

am

heading somewhere with this.)

[Lost Butterfly]

Because otherwise I just don't understand what you were getting at with that bit.

Me neither. Is the not mafia result a part of...whatever you were doing, or is it actually a result?

An actual result (as should be obvious). I've explained the ProHawk thing...and there's a reason I didn't run with it for very long.

Was I unclear in some way? Why do you make pointless comments intermixed in a gigantic wall of quotes

So...why a scum fakeclaim?

Eh, what exactly is the point of this line of questioning, Voided? Particularly given you thought my gambit was pointless, what else were you expecting him to say?

[Lost Butterfly]

@Voided: his reaction did strike me as a bit stiff. "Well, if that happened, then that would mean you were scum." But I'm partly to blame for asking such a stupid question.

Actually, in Garuda's defence, I see most of what he said about Nero was stuff that happened today.

Am I OMGUSing if I think Ghostlin is scum tunneling on me?

Actually, I think you might be onto something here. Ghostly Penguin's suspicions of you have been paper-thin policy-lynch type stuff, and they just keep harping on about how

antitown

you are. Your

reasoning

for what you're advertising makes perfect sense. The only thing stopping me from voting them right now are two strong towntells in their favour (Banakai's claimed advertisements and Ghostlin's rants upon replacing in).

baldeagle is sort of a dark horse suspect right now (I'm afraid I've been underestimating him all game). But at least his reasons for voting you are based on your playstyle (which is kind of easy, but at least plausible reasoning from a newer player who tends to associate lazy play with scummy play).

On that note:

Thanksgiving break is now happening.

I also hate pieguy's attack on espeonage. It was lazy and bad. I like GP for more likely to be town

Eww. I disagree with pretty much everything in this post. Pieguyn looks blindingly obvious town right now (sure, he's really hyperactive and jumping from paranoid suspicion to suspicion, but in a way that has the calculation of a gnat).

[Lost Butterfly]

Like, I feel that it's an incredible testement to how scummy Nero is in that you claimed a fucking cop innocent on him and I realized that he was actually so scummy where that cop innocent did jack and shit in making me feel that he should live. I mean, every time I read a Nero post lately, I think "holy shit. they've finally done it. they have created the

Deep Blue

of the mafia world! Can't play scum for shit, though."

Eww. I disagree with pretty much everything in this post.

Thanksgiving break is happening so I'm pretty excited to see how you refute that point.

Huh? Are we talking about the same thing here? Do you particularly agree with Mhork's post?

[Lost Butterfly]

^Um...ignore that first quote.

[Lost Butterfly]

What do you think should be the plan for town going into the night tonight?

Also I called you out for being completely useless and not voting Nero/having suspects.

Actually, I'm putting a

shitload

of time, stress, and effort into this game. If my brand of time/stress/effort doesn't happen to translate to actual firm opinions and protown go-getter confidence and aggression, then sorry, that's what you get when you stick me in a Mafia game. No. I don't know who's guilty. I didn't even want to play this game alone, because this is ALWAYS what happens. I haven't done enough rereading. Everyone has at least

something

in their favour, and I'm probably townreading all the scum because they're genuinely scumhunting the other scumteam, anyway. I still haven't even started breaking down the DoctorPepper wagon, and I was supposed to do that ages ago. I'm sorry I don't live up to your lofty standards of confident towniness by not putting your pet wagon

du jour

at L-2 (with Voided's extra vote) right this second.

I'm fed up of constantly dealing with these kinds of jabs on MS about my playstyle. I'm

trying

to come to a decision, but nagging me to rush one doesn't help, and just makes me go more slowly because I get stressed out.

(Also, that Thanksgiving joke through miles over my head.)

[Lost Butterfly]

Mina, I wish you could type things faster. I would love to stay and banter a while, but I need rest. I guess I'm gonna troll discussion forums for a while waiting for you and prepare to be intensely disappointed when I see my name as the last posted in this topic.

...okay, now I feel bad for being so tetchy in my last post.

If it makes you better, I

did

find your Nero post funny!

By the way, ask Empire about the game when I claimed an innocent on someone (and not a grey innocent like this one, a "THIS GUY IS CONFIRMED VT" one), and they decided to lynch him in LYLO anyway because he was posting less then the scumbag. You realize that if you lynch Nero and he's innocent, I'll have a streak?

[Lost Butterfly]

including that we had doctor and were protecting him last night. I'm sort of worried that pv may have passed that on to garuda, but it could just mean that scum have Strongman.

zdenek/KA had hitman, so this is impossible

what
the
hell

0.0

Hitman came up again on N3 and was never claimed, remember?

[Lost Butterfly]

The only thing stopping me from voting them right now are two strong towntells in their favour (Banakai's claimed advertisements and Ghostlin's rants upon replacing in).

do you think Ghostlin can't fake said rants?

if he's faking, it would explain his lack of posting. but iirc he went sidewide afk for some time so that seems incorrect

I don't know from personal experience. I've heard secondhand meta that abrasive rants of that kind were towntells for him.

[Lost Butterfly]

pieguyn, I have a question. Has the money you've received this game added up to what people have claimed to transfer you in the thread?

[Lost Butterfly]

Looking at the player list, I

think

this is where I'm at.

Tier 1: ProHawk, Nero Cain, Espeonage, 1baldeagle1, Ghostly Penguin
Tier 2: Voidedmafia, zMuffinMan
Tier 3: Garuda, BBmolla, upside down, Lord Mhork
Tier 4: Harakiri, pieguyn

(My cycle of paranoia of Garuda is currently in its waning phase. Also...Nero's location in my tiers makes Nacho's post about "Deep Blue" triply funny.)

[Lost Butterfly]

LB, why are you so sure that the two scum-teams haven't hooked up yet?

I was going to say, "Because Peregrine the Neighbourizer died and flipped town"...

...but then I remembered Messenger is a thing and has gone unclaimed.

Whoever has Messenger, come forward.

[Lost Butterfly]

I feel like there's something holding me back from voting everyone in my tier 1, particularly the latter two. Maybe it's someone like MuffinMan.

[Lost Butterfly]

I’m against a mass claim unless I get a pretty good reason why we should mass claim. It just seems like fishing to me. LB also needs to explain what they did with the info they already had. D1 or D2 they were asking for claims and said they’d explain later so they can either explain or link me to where they already explained.

Relevant.

I think we should massclaim because we're a day away from LYLO, traditional scumhunting is failing us, and everyone knows where the power roles are concentrated, anyway. And I think in a set-up this complex, at least one person is guaranteed to mess up their claim somewhere. My

only

best skill as a scumhunter is catching people in role contradictions and scumslips. And that's leaving aside roles like Market Analyst or Coroner that could do all sorts of delicious things with the results.

Oddly, though, I think I

like

Nero's refusal to massclaim. This probably makes me a terrible person.

On that note, Voided, Nero, Espeonage, and ProHawk, who did you send money last night? And ProHawk, who did you send money on N3?

Did you actually like Nero reaction to mass claim, or was that you trying to pull the wagon off him?

I see no reason why he would complain about it at this point because it's pretty much the only way we will be able to pull this game out of our asses, along with a reformed plan. Empire is mostly out of the picture at this point because life, but he thought that a strong tool would be a plan where people can be held responsible since the trust system clearly went to shit. Natirasha and cabd setup speculation dance gives us a pretty good idea what to expect from the scumteam, and yes, some things will get fucked up if we put all of our cards down on the table, but we should be able to outpace scum for now.

Re: the bolded, it was sort of a mix of both. Basically, I felt stressed and paralyzed all day, because I had no idea what to do with the information I had, and I didn't like any of the counterwagons to Nero. I was halfheartedly defending him because of my result (and if I'm being completely honest, part of me had the self-serving fear no one would believe me tomorrow if I'd let him get lynched without saying

anything

), but I was probably inclined to read his post more positively because of my result. What I liked there was more just the prickly, paranoid, "Nope, I'm not claiming!" As in, he wasn't eager to placate me, I guess.

I still think we should have massclaimed today, but there's an extreme amount of resistance to it. It's kind of irritating, because no one is following the plan anymore. morph's original plan meant everyone knew where the money was concentrated, but the second variant meant the people who are supposed to send money were 1) sort of arbitrarily chosen, and 2) going, "well, I don't want to follow it, so nyah!"

What I'm thinking now is something like "everyone sends $50 to one of three or four players." This way, the money is still not concentrated all in one basket, and it's less predictable as to who has what roles. BUT the townier players have more buying power. (But the problem with this is that it doesn't keep scum poor. We could get around it by having a tier of top suspects we want to keep completely bankrupt.)

[Lost Butterfly]

I feel like there's something holding me back from voting everyone in my tier 1, particularly the latter two. Maybe it's someone like MuffinMan.

Why muffin?

Part burden of proficiency and hearing horror stories about his scum play, part PoE, part that some stuff he's done has triggered bells. For example, some of his arguments with Nero felt like trying to score points--in particular, the hypocrisy of his stance on Nero's wagon development compared to Voided's. (Rather than be disingenuous, just admit that

both

wagons have actually been pretty similar to each other, but none of this has any bearing on their alignments!) And I really don't like how he responded to Espeonage's attack yesterday--it just felt overdefensive and like he was trying to undermine and belittle Espeonage.

There's a lot that's really townish in his play. (He comes across as passionate and relaxed in his posts, and has done a lot that looks like proactive scumhunting. And today, I've liked his play a lot better, particularly his interactions with pie. I actually tend to think it's a towntell for someone to be utterly convinced they look town and this is nothing like their scum play.) Also, I checked out the games morph linked to. He actually IS much less abrasive and more formal in the scum games, although he does get nasty in the second one near the end. That's why he's only Tier 2. But there's enough doubt in my mind that I worry he's someone I might let slip through the cracks.

And why muffin for those two specifically?

Are our wires getting crossed here, or was that a typo? It has nothing to do with Muffin. I just meant something was holding me back from voting everyone in my top tier, particularly baldeagle and...

...

...

...actually, fuck it!

VOTE: Ghostly Penguin

Hey, penguin_alien. I know you've been posting everywhere onsite

except

for this game. I'd like you and Ghostlin to explain to me why scum!Molla. Also, would you be scumreading him if he'd claimed different advertisements? Finally, what's your current read on Nero?

[Lost Butterfly]

EBWOP: I'd like you and Ghostlin to explain to me why scum!Molla

decided to claim the advertisements he did rather than only the protown ones

.

[Lost Butterfly]

look, here's the thing, pieguy. you're seeing what you want to see in my play because you're paranoid about me. OK. i don't mind. you just lost a game vs me and you don't want it to happen again. but i'm not scum here and your meta analysis on me is so flawed it's not funny because you're ignoring things you want to ignore and seeing things you want to see. and the thing is, you're basing this entirely on one scum game from me that started way after morph had metadived me here, where i was scum against them as town and i needed to change things up slightly or risk them seeing right through me. and here's the thing; they almost did see right through me in that game. but they were consistently reading me as town here after the metadive. know why? because i was trying to fake my towngame in imperishable night and they probably knew that was the case there, but it didn't affect their read on me in this game because this is, undoubtedly, my town game.

For the record, though, I'm Nthing your Most Cunning Manipulator nom if you said this as scum.

[Lost Butterfly]

did you notice Esp was doing the same thing? o.o

Not until you'd mentioned it earlier. I just noticed the p_a thing now because I've seen posts of hers elsewhere, and that's what tipped me toward voting them.

And to be fair, that Muffin quote stood out for me

because

I was rereading your exchange and saw you'd quoted it. So I'm not exactly a mind-reader.

[Lost Butterfly]

I'm off to bed now, but Ghostly Penguin, for the fifteenth time, please tell us who you transferred your money to on N2 (and how

much

you transferred). This late in the game, the information is useless for rolefishing.

[Lost Butterfly]

Speaking of unused abilities, i am uncomfortable with vpidef still having double vote this close to Kylie, especially if he's scum and his team now has asecond double vote.

I SAID THIS FOUR FUCKING TIMES, I DON'T HAVE EV ANYMORE!

God, do I have to yell like Fate to get this through your skull?

Did Magua tell you this at the beginning of the day?

lb 3929 wrote:Part burden of proficiency


wat. if nero is scum, then that pretty much means i've been pushing for scum lynches since D2, no?

I misused "burden of proficiency." What worries me is your proficiency as

scum

, not as town. Admittedly, you being right about Nero (whose last couple of posts are absolutely atrocious) would be a point in your favour (because you're obviously not on the same faction as him

if you were, your QuickTopic will be hilarious to read

, and I don't see scum going full-throttle on someone they have conviction is guilty in this set-up).

Nacho, I assume Muffin is the player you're worried about and not Voided? Can you explain what it is that's tripping your bells?

More coming if I don't fall asleep first.

[Lost Butterfly]

I still maintain baldeagle is print own. So is muffin. Nero is still scum.

Do you think it's fair to say that you're coasting today, Mhork?

[Lost Butterfly]

posting elsewhere
no conviction
no scumhunting
no attempts to engage
not his town meta

Do you know the same BBmolla I do? He's starting to play

exactly

to his town meta--lazy, unfocused, whimsical, and genuine.

Get a better vote.

[Lost Butterfly]

VOTE: upside down

The first time you called Molla scum...okay. Given the size of his wagon, it was convenient, but I could buy that. It's only recently that I've come around to Townmolla, after all.

The second, third, and fourth times you just insisted he was obvscum when he was at

worst

just vaguely playing like lurker scum (at least if your gut isn't sensitive to Molla town), that started to strain credulity. But fine. Some people aren't very good at Mafia.

But when Molla started towntelling through every orifice of his body, and outright PROVED your meta charge was bullshit (incidentally, I know for a fact his self-assessment is accurate--he's done the case-walling thing as scum in an attempt to gain town cred in a game on Westeros)...and then you just brushed it aside as though you pulled the "scum meta" thing completely out of your ass and just repeated over and over again that he was obvscum...

Everything you've said is posturing and repeating the same bullshit list of bullet points you could probably concoct about any low poster. I don't see any reflection or attempt to discern Molla's alignment. I think he's got you pegged.

Please. I'm begging you. For the love of God, explain WHY this is his scum meta without any cute coy evasions, why you think his play is THIS out of the ordinary, and how the fuck does his angry reaction to you and obviously genuine paranoia even make any sense as scum? He didn't react like this to any of the other people who suspect him. Isn't this the point where, if you were town, you'd be going, "Well, gee, my vote on a random lurky not-very-constructive player probably DIDN'T hit the mark" rather than desperately clinging to your opinion?

It's amazing. Somehow, in one evening of posted, you've managed to singlehandedly torpedo my town read on this slot. This is an impressive

tour de force

of scumminess.

Well, I guess that's why N was doing all the posting!

Preview-edit: Molla, although I agree with your read, 1v1s are stupid because town tunnel on town and are wrong all the time. They're only good for reaction tests.

[Lost Butterfly]

Kid, I'm probably dying today, hencewhy I'm trying to 1v1 you

Eh. Do you

really

believe this? Truly? There really wasn't any momentum against you, even with upside down's vote.

[Lost Butterfly]

So the thing I'm getting from this skim is baldeagle was scum. Garuda too prob, I dunno. And Molla, but I'm annoyed both LB and Garuda think he's town, so he's probably town.

I'm a lot less sure of Mhork than I was earlier, but I agree with him that your reads suck. (Well, I think baldeagle has a very real chance of being scum, but how would you be getting this from his really recent posts?

Also, WTF? You think Molla is probably scum. And you're annoyed that two people, one of whom is your OTHER scum read, is townreading. So...that makes Molla probably town? I don't follow.

[Lost Butterfly]

I'm in the middle of writing a big post in response to upside down, but...

In post 3972, Lost Butterfly wrote:Did Magua tell you this at the beginning of the day?


Yes.

Um...

...

...

...

...

...

...

Um...

Wow.

I'm actually laughing in front of my computer screen right now.

VOTE: Voidedmafia

Well, that was a nice gift! I'll take it, I guess.

[Lost Butterfly]

Hey, guys! Why don't you do a test, and ask Magua if you lose an ability once a second one appears in the game? Including if that ability is extra vote?

Guess what?

He'll answer you.

[Lost Butterfly]

Seriously, Voided.

What the fuck? What the fuck???

I mean...were you...

I assume maybe to save it so you could quickhammer in LYLO, but...really. Couldn't you, I don't know,

check with Magua

first?

[Lost Butterfly]

You've gone awfully quiet, Voided.

[Lost Butterfly]

Quilford, go ask Magua what would happen if you won Extra Vote on N0, and then it went up for auction again on N3 (regardless of whether someone won it a second time).

Hint: not what Voided claimed.

I'm going to ask him a second time just to make sure my question didn't have a loophole in it.

p-edit: ProHawk, you've literally came out with the absolute WORST reason of all the ones given to suspect Quilford. The "fmpov" point is garbage and completely null.

[Lost Butterfly]

(N3, N4, same difference.)

[Lost Butterfly]

p-edit: ProHawk, you've literally came out with the absolute WORST reason of all the ones given to suspect Quilford. The "fmpov" point is garbage and completely null.

Also, what's worse is you weren't even the one who came up with it. You're just parroting Mhork's and Garuda's stale talking point.

Dammit. I can't even concentrate on writing a boring wall to Quilford anymore. I'm all giddy!

This is why we should massclaim! Because people always mess things up!

[Lost Butterfly]

Like, I'd buy him messing up Seanald-style as town...IF he didn't go the extra mile and lie to say Magua had sent him a PM.

[Lost Butterfly]

Um...

So...

I...might be an idiot.

this is because of Voided's EV

*coughuseditcough*

Not really seeing muffin-scum, here, Pie.

I'd completely missed his exchange with pieguyn over having used Extra Vote. What confused me was this:

L-2 (with Voided's extra vote) right this second.

I've said three times already that I don't have it. Someone else has EV from when the auction reset.

So not having realized he'd used it, I'd thought that was implying he'd lost his extra vote when the auction reset, because there could only be one ability in the game at a time. Then I

confirmed

with Magua that this wasn't true.

I guess we got our wires crossed when I asked you if you'd been notified "at the beginning of the day" (because I was confused by where you'd got the idea that the auction resetting would take away your ability). I meant

today

.

One more question. So you were sent a PM at the beginning of Day Four telling you that you no longer had Extra Vote?

Also, why the hell didn't you claim to have used your extra vote on

Day Four

, instead of saying nothing when there could have been a quickhammer?

[Lost Butterfly]

this is because of Voided's EV

*coughuseditcough*

Not really seeing muffin-scum, here, Pie.

where'd you use it 0.0

you sent in the activation on D4?

N3 <_<

you sent in the activation on D4?

(Oh, you mentioned the synopsis PM thing.)

UNVOTE: Voidedmafia

[Lost Butterfly]

^all those quotes weren't supposed to be there. Stupid Q+ button.

God fucking dammit.

I'm so demoralized right now. Of course that was way too easy and too good to be true. Either this game is too hard, or I'm an idiot who can't read.

I'm not even confident on Quilford anymore (both because his more recent posts were better and because Nacho is better at reading him than I am). And I have to leave the house in six hours, and really don't want to answer his wall right now.

Hey, Muffin, if you're around, can you explain what the difference is between Nero's "static" reads and Quilford's stance on BBmolla?

[Lost Butterfly]

I'm running late for work, but just posting to say there's zero chance I'm voting Molla over Nero, although after ISOing the latter, I'm frankly nowhere near as optimistic as Garuda and Muffin seem to be that this lynch is 100% going to hit scum. Also, now is the time we should be setting up a night action plan. (Agreed that two people is too few.)

Muffin, my point is that Quilford's dogged "BBmolla is obvscum" felt a

lot

like Nero's stance on Harakiri D1 and early D2. Given that you've pushed on Nero for having static reads, I'm surprised you didn't get the same impression I did from his posts.

ProHawk, can you explain in your own words why you're scumreading me? You've said a few reasons why you think I'd attack Voided for the slip AS SCUM AS WELL AS TOWN, but nothing explaining what gave you a "scum read." In fact, you called my push "very town." (FTR, I actually disagree with Voided that scum!me would be reluctant to attack an ally and someone who's not easy to mislynch--in fact, the latter would make me happier to bring him down--but in this set-up, my reaction to catching him in a slip wouldn't be excitement over mislynching a townie. It would be excitement over finding my counterpart on the other team and being able to neighbourize him tonight.) Never mind I have no clue how upside down is involved. Also, I'm

extremely

sceptical that you noticed the "fmpov" thing independently of pieguyn.

Voided, I still want your explanation for why you used your extra vote on N3 without ever claiming it.

[Lost Butterfly]

Before anyone hammers:

The Plan

If your name is upside down, BBmolla, ProHawk, Ghostly Penguin, or Espeonage, then roll a die. If you roll a 1, send all your money to LB. If you roll a 2, you send it all to pieguyn. If you roll a 3, you send to the town read of your choice. (There's no time to publicly vote on town reads.) You must claim whom you sent this money to TOMORROW.

If you're anyone else, you must do the above, but only send $50 instead of the full amount.

advertise $5 on each of the following abilities.
Cop
Watcher
Doctor
Wage Freeze.

If someone has objections to this plan, speak

now

.

[Lost Butterfly]

$1 is fine. Acting like ProHawk and openly just never ever actually sending people any money and getting away with it.

The Amended Plan

If your name is upside down, BBmolla, ProHawk, Ghostly Penguin, or Espeonage, then roll a die. If you roll a 1, send all your money to LB. If you roll a 2, you send it all to pieguyn. If you roll a 3, you send to the town read of your choice. (There's no time to publicly vote on town reads.) You must claim whom you sent this money to TOMORROW. You should not advertise anything.

If you're anyone else, you must do the above, but only send $50 instead of everything you have. You must ALSO advertise $5 on each of the following abilities.
Cop
Watcher
Doctor
Wage Freeze.

If you don't have enough funds to send the $50, concentrate on advertising the full amount and just send what you have left over.

(If someone has objections to this plan, speak

now

.

[Lost Butterfly]

Correction:

$1 is fine. Acting like ProHawk and openly just never ever actually sending people any money and getting away with it

because no one really cares

is the problem. Coordinating the night game feels like herding cats.

The Amended Plan II

If your name is upside down, BBmolla, ProHawk, Ghostly Penguin, 1baldeagle1, or Espeonage, then roll a die. If you roll a 1, send all your money to LB. If you roll a 2, you send it all to pieguyn. If you roll a 3, you send to the town read of your choice. (There's no time to publicly vote on town reads.) You must claim whom you sent this money to TOMORROW. You should not advertise anything.

If you're anyone else, you must do the above, but only send $50 instead of everything you have. You must ALSO advertise $5 on each of the following abilities.
Cop
Watcher
Doctor
Wage Freeze

If you don't have enough funds to send the $50, concentrate on advertising the full amount and just send what you have left over.

(If someone has objections to this plan, speak

now

.

)

Added baldeagle to the list.

[Lost Butterfly]

I am letting you know now that if Nero flips scum, I'm policy lynching you tomorrow!

[Lost Butterfly]

...

...

...

...

...

...Nero, I fucking hate you.

[Lost Butterfly]

;_;

I outed myself for that slimy bastard.

[Lost Butterfly]

<3

Garuda, when you're finished gloating, please tell us who we should be lynching today.

[Lost Butterfly]

Him.

Unvote, Vote: Garuda

Really?

[Lost Butterfly]

what the fuck is going on
I don't even

Unless someone wants to fess up to governing Nero, there are two possible explanations, one of which is far more likely than the other.

[Lost Butterfly]

Bah. Right now, I think both eagle and Espeonage are solid lynches. Slightly prefer Espeonage, actually, just because his vote hops on the last page have been terrible and inconsistent with the opinions he's given, as thought they're based more on convenience than conviction.

VOTE: Espeonage

Mhork is another early town read who's been sinking fast, but it's only today that I've started having doubts, and I'd rather wait and see if it's not just temporary apathy. I actually liked ProHawk's post-govern paranoid tinfoil hat posts enough to give him a reprieve for now.

Quilford's more recent posts on BBmolla show more nuance than the ones I voted him for (although he's still wrong), but I'm still uneasy about this slot right now.

Also, I really would have preferred if people hadn't pointed out the "scum governed town" theory, because there's a chance Nero might have claimed scum in order to communicate with the other team if he thought he was busted. Now, tomorrow's decision is much more stressful than it needs to be. I still believe that the govern is a very, VERY strong hint that Nero is scum, though, particularly given the scumteam who used it would have no way at all of predicting where the lynch would go otherwise. And they're wasting the chance to protect one of their own instead.

(Voided, I meant I outed myself as the cop for Nero, basically for nothing, which means I'm very pessimistic about getting a second result.)

[Lost Butterfly]

I don't like how basically all my non-Nero suspects right now are people who used to be townreads.

[Lost Butterfly]

His hops from Garuda to ProHawk to Harakiri were skeevy as hell.

[Lost Butterfly]

I don't like this, though. I feel like there's a piece of evidence in favour of everyone in the game being town. But Espeonage seems like a good PoE vote when most of his "hard" towntells (Klick's self-vote and subsequent unexplained disappearance, the PM slip) are things that have conceivable explanations from scum!Espy.

(Right now, I'm entertaining a paranoid theory that Klick was secretly force-replaced by Magua because his replace-out feint and self-vote compromised his slot. Except I think this would make Espeonage town. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!)

Agree that baldeagle's reaction to the govern felt fake. (It felt like an "I need to react to this SOMEHOW, but how?" post--leaving aside the delay, it was too similar to pieguyn's reaction.) Also, his responses to Harakiri were kind of null, icky, "Why me? Why not them?" stuff. Not sure I should completely throw away my read of his D1 play, though.

[Lost Butterfly]

I know everyone was distracted by the govern, but can people please weigh in on this? (Also, if I forgot your name, you're in the third group.)

The Current Plan

If your name is Lost Butterfly or pieguyn, do whatever you want. ^_^

If your name is Nero Cain, upside down, BBmolla, ProHawk, Ghostly Penguin, 1baldeagle1, or Espeonage, then roll a die. If you roll a 1, send all your money to LB. If you roll a 2, you send it all to pieguyn. If you roll a 3, you send it to the town read of your choice (doesn't matter who, as long as it's someone who isn't you and who YOU strongly believe is town). You must claim whom you sent this money to TOMORROW. You should not advertise anything.

If your name is Garuda, zMuffinMan, Harakiri, Voidedmafia, or Lord Mhork, you must do the above, but only send $50 instead of everything you have. You must ALSO advertise $5 on each of the following abilities.
Cop
Watcher
Doctor
Wage Freeze

If you don't have enough funds to send the $50, concentrate on advertising the full amount and just send what you have left over. If you have more than $50, spend the rest of your money however you see fit.

(If someone has objections to this plan, speak

now

.

).

[Lost Butterfly]

...okay.

Given that there are people in this game who have doubts to your alignment right now...

...I don't....I don't suppose it would be too much for you to, I don't know, actually

follow

the plan?

You know, to set an example for

ProHawk

the younger members of the class?

[Lost Butterfly]

I'm debating adding a third town read to the pool. Maybe Garuda, except quite a few people aren't town-reading them strongly. (For the record, if you roll a 3, you may send your money to me or pie, or you can send it to someone else. Change it up a bit.)

Also, financing is for chumps. You should be like me, and blow all your money on overpriced abilities that go for obscenely high. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Shopping sprees!

[Lost Butterfly]

Well, they have to justify their choice.

"Nero's my strongest town read! I sent all my money to him..."

Actually, I could see a couple of people doing that.

I think Garuda or Harakiri is who I'd nominate. Is there time to put it to a vote?

[Lost Butterfly]

I literally hate this game, and me not having time to do proper analysis just adds to my frustration. Sorry guys.

VOTE: Espeonage

I really wouldn't have expected you to vote that way, particularly given the wagon composition.