Mafiascum.net

hey ice why did you hop on that little flareon wagon when you obviously suspected herself at the time

also herself what the fuck is your read on SG and why is it that

SG is town. It's literally all over our ISO, shouldn't be too difficult for you to figure out why.

So Fitz:

- Sheeps all my townreads
- Agrees with me that scum are likely among the minimal-post group
- Thinks I'm scum because...?

He says he "was leaning towards us anyway but feel free to include a dash of OMGUS" but I think it's the whole fucking shaker's worth.

Why am I scum for overanalyzing your first two posts but you have nothing to say about Street's analysis of the same posts? Especially when they were the ones who asked me to provide the analysis in the first place?

- Des

And I linked the game to Castle mafia so they could look at another one of your scum openings--the similarities between your opening posts in both games are disturbing.

- Des

Kid A wrote: hey ice why did you hop on that little flareon wagon when you obviously suspected herself at the time

My vote has always been on the player who was the most suspicious. As I stated more than once, I had big issue with her post 31. Being that more interesting things have since happened regarding Herself, she rose above Banksys on my suspect list. Also note, I didn't "hop on" the "wagon", I created it. And I put wagon in quotes because she never had more than 2 or 3 votes on her.

Herself, hypothetical question: Fitz gets shot by a day vig right now. Where does your vote go?

EBWOP he flips town when he gets shot.

In post 204, ICEninja wrote:Herself, hypothetical question: Fitz gets shot by a day vig right now. Where does your vote go?

Milked Eek.

I haven't synched with mollie but I think I got the same form of the willies from his prod dodge that she did.

- Des

In post 206, Herself wrote:

In post 204, ICEninja wrote:Herself, hypothetical question: Fitz gets shot by a day vig right now. Where does your vote go?

Milked Eek.

I haven't synched with mollie but I think I got the same form of the willies from his prod dodge that she did.

- Des

It's the general case of which food tell is a subset.

Yeah she loves that one. My main issues are: he definitely was lurking because he didn't announce v/la, and if the conference started last Friday and goes through this Friday, and he might not be able to post by the Saturday afterward (which could easily turn into Sunday, or even Monday) then we are talking about 75-80% of the day phase where Milked has 0 presence. That's a problem

Fitz said the same thing. "I'm not going to be able to post much content because the majority of my access is via phone" is crazy scummy.

- Des

I really like Herself's posting on this page outside of the focused hatred towards all things lurky. The Fitz case actually gains a few teeth here, let's make Herself's day and sheep for a little bit.



I don't remember if I've clarified my ICE read lately, but he's been a town read for at least a page or two now. When Street reveals his thoughts I better basically get the vapors or I will want to lynch him still. Same goes for Orestes. I'm actually about to start advocating a lynch all delayed read offerers policy.

Good thing Fitz is with us now. However, I don't like his post. More like a bunch of questions that had already been answered. And I got basically the same feeling about Kid A.

About Milked Eek. Hmm, I also got a strange vibe from that post. Dunno what to think of it yet...

EBWOP With his post, I mean his wall.

In post 209, Squirrel Girl wrote:I'm actually about to start advocating a lynch all delayed read offerers policy.

That's good. The scum really are starting to feel the pressure of getting boxed out, and the longer they put it off the harder it's going to be to pretend to be town.

- Des

In post 202, Herself wrote:And I linked the game to Castle mafia so they could look at another one of your scum openings--the similarities between your opening posts in both games are disturbing.

This might interest you. Here are some of this dude's games (ffery and I are talking about this right now):

TOWN: Open 479, Mini 1480
SCUM: Mini 1407 (need to find a second scum game as I'm not sure that him-as-SK in Castle qualifies)

The main difference I see is that he's a lot more focused in catch-up and there's a lot less of a whirlwind, feel-the-need-to-comment-on-everything approach when he's town (basically, there's a lot more IIoA when he's scum). ffery described it as his catch-ups are more digestible when he's town as there's more of what he thinks and less empty questioning. I'm getting the vibe that his wall was a lot more like his scumwalls in the past.

My other main issue with him is the apparent lack of deviation from the norm. Putting aside that there's a lot of discussion in that post that's already been tread on, his reads tend to match the consensus almost exactly.

The end result is that ffery and I are both stuck lamenting that we don't have two votes

I'll check those games out momentarily

In post 213, Street Hassle wrote: The end result is that ffery and I are both stuck lamenting that we don't have two votes

It's a good thing actually. Check the vote count and where everyone is, I think you'll understand why.

- Des

Initial impression of Fitztown makes his defense seem scummy as shit. Compare his reaction to my accusation here and his reaction to Thor's push in 479 and when Jake called him a liar in 1480. Based on those games, when he gets FOSed he is very direct with his rebuttles--he knows the accusation is bullshit and he's gonna tell you why goddamnit...whereas here his posture is meek, he's wordy, he's overexplaining himself. Look:

Earlier today, Fitz... wrote: #6...as I was not aware Street was a fferly+Empire hydra..seeing a quote of a post (that did not exist) by a player not even in the game was confusing...as I pointed out. And as we were on the subject of hydras and I only recognized 2-3 players...the "Are there any hydras" was a legitimate question that iirc I ask on occasion. So post 1 over analysis on me seems ridiculous and malicious.

#9...I was curious as to the reason for SG's facepalm at the fact there was a mollie/desperado hydra. Anything brought up in this game is subject to discussion so my curiousity as to SG's reaction was genuine. It was not to undermine anyone. As has not subsequently been the result of the question....except back on me. Ridiculous again.

In Open 479, Fitz town... wrote: @Thor...what pressure are you basing your vote on me on? The pressure prior to your vote (which did not exist?) or the pressure you hoped to gain from placing your vote? And the scumtell was my opening post of day 3 I assume? If so...for shame. That's weak shit. Not sure if it's worked for you before but its off the mark here.

@DCL...regarding my comment about having suspicions towards Hiraki...wtf are you talking about? I do not build a case on Hiraki (because he was one of my lesser suspects) but I more certainly indicate I am suspicious of him

Questioning him here 234, getting an opinion of Hiraki from who I thought was scum here 301, and outright stating it here 316.

And there's my tell described by Thor. Um...no where did I say scum's kill was confusing (though it is) and no where did I say I didn't have reads. If anything...saying hiraki was one of my suspects, but not my top suspect mind you, infers that I have others besides him (ie reads). And yes...Rach is ~slightly buddying you.

In Mini 1480, Fitz town... wrote:You can shove my outright lie up your posterior Oh wait, you’re safe…there was no outright lie. I thought I would be more active while on v/LA and it didn’t happen. I suspected Baezu so I voted him. I missed his mention of claiming…as did everyone else apparently before he died…including you. Otherwise I might have gone for smargaret. But if she is telling the truth that’s just as well I didn’t vote her either. And once the lynch occurred…3 RL days break for night and a couple of RL days missed to start D2 didn’t affect jack. I don’t have and never have had an issue playing with you and as far as I can recall from our last game….which you replaced into despite my presence btw…there were no problems. I'm off v/LA so try to get over it.

As for this game…as I believe I have already indicated…I still suspect Saki but would be willing to look over other non-PR claimed options. Even though I do not believe all of the claims.

p.edit to 517 Why shouldn't I be offended at being called an outright liar along with your other behavior/comments towards me since I joined? Silly me. My suspicions of Saki have merit in my opinion.

ok yeah we're lynching fitz today

- Des

In post 213, Street Hassle wrote:

In post 202, Herself wrote:And I linked the game to Castle mafia so they could look at another one of your scum openings--the similarities between your opening posts in both games are disturbing.

This might interest you. Here are some of this dude's games (ffery and I are talking about this right now):

TOWN: Open 479, Mini 1480
SCUM: Mini 1407 (need to find a second scum game as I'm not sure that him-as-SK in Castle qualifies)

The main difference I see is that he's a lot more focused in catch-up and there's a lot less of a whirlwind, feel-the-need-to-comment-on-everything approach when he's town (basically, there's a lot more IIoA when he's scum). ffery described it as his catch-ups are more digestible when he's town as there's more of what he thinks and less empty questioning. I'm getting the vibe that his wall was a lot more like his scumwalls in the past.

My other main issue with him is the apparent lack of deviation from the norm. Putting aside that there's a lot of discussion in that post that's already been tread on, his reads tend to match the consensus almost exactly.

The end result is that ffery and I are both stuck lamenting that we don't have two votes

well fitz was scum in this game:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=29543

I kind of feel off-put from all this meta on fitz when it seems to mostly be about games he has replaced into or dust-ups he got in on Day 2+. I'm not sure how you guys are applying them to this one really.

I'm personally not particularly good at meta reads to determine alignment. If others want to use it and are confident in it that's fine, but it isn't going to easily convince me.

Maybe I have a more positive read on him simply because his own reads line up so tight with mine, and I feel like his Herself vote was completely justified (and not just by OMGUS but, but by Herself trying to make a case out of page 1 posts where one of which was a perfectly fine post and the other was just run-of-the-mill page 1 filler).

And even now that I go back and look at fitz's catchup his seemingly "free" town read on Kid A makes more sense considering this statement:

fitz wrote: @ICE...Post's 13's "absolutely game changing" proclamation of something that should be apparent to anyone who reads the OP seems a bit over dramatic and ""helpful"". Then it's compounded with the watch our voting timelines and taking a poll of timezones. bleh.

Lines up with something Kid A said about me, and Kid A's Orestes scum read and fitz's scum reads seem to align too, even if they're for completely different reasons.

If someone (empire) can link me to something definitive that doesn't involve me needing to read entire games to understand fitz's play style differences as town and scum then I'll read it. I don't particularly see myself voting fitz during day 1 though, when I have such a solid scum read of Herself, and would even consider Banksys scummier than fitz at this point.

Nutsy McSexyTail wrote: I kind of feel off-put from all this meta on fitz when it seems to mostly be about games he has replaced into or dust-ups he got in on Day 2+. I'm not sure how you guys are applying them to this one really.

Saying this about your top scum read (or at least who you are currently voting) makes me feel like you're probably the same alignment as fitz. It seems like either you're a townie hesitant to rush too deep in to a mislynch on bad info or (less likely) a scum buddy trying to play down the wagon while still getting credit for being on the wagon.

I'll make a note of this for when we've got a flip on fitz.

In post 219, ICEninja wrote:Maybe I have a more positive read on him simply because his own reads line up so tight with mine, and I feel like his Herself vote was completely justified (and not just by OMGUS but, but by Herself trying to make a case out of page 1 posts where one of which was a perfectly fine post and the other was just run-of-the-mill page 1 filler).

what if I told you that fitz's vote on me is the safest vote he can possibly make since he has voted me we have ever been in so there is zero accountability there? the only reason he did vote me in 2 rooms was cos he was lynched before he realised majiffy and I were a hydra.

if we were dayvigged right now and you finally had to face the fact that you have been tunneling on town for shoddy reasons who would you go after next?

@ empire

what is with the cold shoulder. I have been good. I have been patient. I was so looking forward to playing with you and so far it has been lackluster. what is your read on us? have you given 1 yet?

In post 221, Herself wrote:@ empire

what is with the cold shoulder. I have been good. I have been patient. I was so looking forward to playing with you and so far it has been lackluster. what is your read on us? have you given 1 yet?

...really? Consider that your other head acted like a colossal douchebag towards me yesterday and then you can understand why I've been giving your slot the cold shoulder.

And about my read on you guys: seriously, I'm tired of answering questions whose answers should be evident from my posts.

In post 221, Herself wrote:

In post 219, ICEninja wrote:Maybe I have a more positive read on him simply because his own reads line up so tight with mine, and I feel like his Herself vote was completely justified (and not just by OMGUS but, but by Herself trying to make a case out of page 1 posts where one of which was a perfectly fine post and the other was just run-of-the-mill page 1 filler).

what if I told you that fitz's vote on me is the safest vote he can possibly make since he has voted me

in nearly every single game

we have ever been in so there is zero accountability there? the only reason he did vote me in 2 rooms was cos he was lynched before he realised majiffy and I were a hydra.

if we were dayvigged right now and you finally had to face the fact that you have been tunneling on town for shoddy reasons who would you go after next?

@ empire

what is with the cold shoulder. I have been good. I have been patient. I was so looking forward to playing with you and so far it has been lackluster. what is your read on us? have you given 1 yet?

We've both stated our read on you. Way back on page 2 :/

32, 43 - our early town reads

As far as cold shoulder goes, ISO yourself. ISO us. Or hell, dual ISO and look at the conversation.

In post 222, Street Hassle wrote:

In post 221, Herself wrote:@ empire

what is with the cold shoulder. I have been good. I have been patient. I was so looking forward to playing with you and so far it has been lackluster. what is your read on us? have you given 1 yet?

...really? Consider that your other head acted like a colossal douchebag towards me yesterday and then

maybe

you can understand why I've been giving your slot the cold shoulder.

And about my read on you guys: seriously, I'm tired of answering questions whose answers should be evident from my posts.

we are 2 different heads. take a page out of sakura's page and treat us as individuals who share a role and are working together. if it was THAT evident then I wouldn't be asking.

I am going to level with you. I am tired, I am cranky, I don't feel good and it would be nice to have some light banter and entertainment instead of the shitfests that mafia has turned into these days. do you think you could help with that? that would be nice.