NY 172: Another Large Normal (GAME OVER)
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You mentioned it twice. What relevance does my join date have here? You have no idea what my experience with mafia is, and it is irrelevant to the point being made.
Bringing it up only serves one purpose: to distract from the inquiry at hand, which is that your "reason" for voting Luca yesterday is complete and utter bullshit. It's an attempt to mask the scum motivation behind what you did.
You weren't even asked about it! You just volunteered this reasoning.
Never mind that it makes no fucking sense.
Never mind that the vote itself was fucking scummy.
Never mind that you have contributed FUCK ALL.
Never mind that you have done ZERO SCUM HUNTING.
p-edt:
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No no.
You're right AP.
RM is totally clean.
Cuz you've looked her ISO and she comes up completely townie, right?
She's your top town read?
Like BPC is your top scum read?
FUCKING OPEN YOUR EYES PLEASE. If you don't agree with me, so be it.
But at the very least, do me the courtesy of checking into what the fuck I'm saying.
What a fucking waste of time.
Like this is a fucking no brainer.- Snork
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Like what the fuck are you even saying AP.
Two wagons on town battling towards deadline. Where do scum put their votes?
You just answer that question.
You just fucking think about it yourself and stop asking me because apparently I'm the newbie that is fucking blind and thinks all these stupid things.
I'm the fucking newbie lol... who is scumreading the towniest town to ever town in this game
Don't fucking bother asking me AP.
I explain it as clear as fucking day and it's like banging my head against a goddamn brick wall. I am fucking tired of that.- Snork
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In post 1876, Nero Cain wrote:Yea, Rach is clean'cause AP isscumdirty. Snork's reasoning for voting Rach seems legit and AP fighting that is p derpy. Might switch my vote to AP. An AP-PA scum team makes sense too!!!
Are you dumb? The bold is pretty clearly sarcasm.In post 1877, AngryPidgeon wrote:Rach is town.... Snork's reasoning for her being scum is good.... AP's reasoning for her being town is bad.
Mind blown.- Snork
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That is what she is claiming, even though she had no reason to believe theflipped cophad lied.
p-edit: I didn't do that just now. As you can see it is unformatted and disorganized, and it only includes D1 and couple posts from the start of this day phase.
But no I do not have time right now. I am leaving work shortly and will have time in a couple hours.- Snork
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...
I think rach is fucking scum. How are you now under the impression I just want to lynch her for being shitty? No. I want to never see her on a playerlist I'm on ever again. But in THIS GAME where I have been screaming about her fucking inconsistencies and bullshit excuses and irrelevant garbage and total lack of scum hunting, I think she is fucking scum.
p-edit: is that at me?- Snork
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Oh you're saying Luca was dead weight.
I'm not wanting to lynch someone just for being dead weight. I wanted to lynch Talah because I thought Talah was scum, and the fact that talah was pushing Luca made me feel like Luca was probably town, in addition to the fact that people I was scumreading independently of talah were defending talah, and voting Luca.
I explained this yesterday when I refused to vote Luca, and it's kind of moot at this point cuz neither of them were scum.- Snork
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AP why do you keep saying I was lost? I never said that and never felt that I was lost. Reevaluating the game != lost... If I was lost, I would certainly say so.
I'm not raging. I'm frustrated. I'm annoyed at you because I do think you're town but I also think you're wasting my time. That's irritating. I don't understand why you are arguing with me over every read. If you disagree, then say that. Tell me I'm fucking wrong and that you think I'm totally missing the mark. But don't fucking waste my time asking me for my opinion when it doesn't seem like you actually want it.- Snork
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Up to the point of this post, I wasn't sure about BPC at all. I was looking for something that gave me an idea of what he was after. He was a dead null.
Spoiler: BPC's catchup post
I really like this post because he's giving his impressions on people. It's NOT just IIoA. This post has actual opinions. Why he liked certain arguments and disliked others. IIoA is just that. Just information. No conclusions. This post does not lack conclusions. He states something someone did, whether he liked it or not, why, and whether he thinks that makes them town or scum. That's a very natural town thought process, imo. He even explained where certain readswere, where they moved, and why.
Then his reads list as of around post 1000. He's taking a very diplomatic approach, he shows his understanding of the context, namely Rach's bs, and talah's commentary up to that point. He's not opportunistically pushing bullshit just to get the lynch to happen, and he's not being all flakey about his reads either (like RM has been). He's committed his reads.
The entire post comes off really genuine, and shows a desire to be part of the game. Overall, its a very townie post. I liked his comments, and I liked where they led him. Whether I agree or not is irrelevant to the purpose and tone of the post, and where I think the motivation is coming from.- Snork
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I also don't think he was "a scummy person". The posts prior to his catchup are completely null, with the exception of his reaction the fake vig, which I thought wasn't townie, but not necessarily scummy either. He was a non-entity due to V/LA. To call that player "scummy" is.. well, unreasonable. It doesn't make sense.- Snork
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I am not. Anymore. He's kind of null. DG I have been questioning my read there for a bit, and I am leaning more town on him. I can see where he's going with his posts. He definitely shows a motivation to scum hunt lately, and I'm starting to feel like he just has a kind of awkward way to his construction. I think that's originally where I got the feeling he was scummy in the beginning, but it hasn't changed despite people's reads on him changing all over the place. He doesn't really seem to care that he is being scumread. That's good. DV is town - that one I explained, but I can go through his ISO for specifics. Basically, I was scumreading him only reference to talah, which ended up a bust. Prior to that, I was townreading him, and taking talah out of the equation, I still like his posts.In post 1907, AngryPidgeon wrote:Ok, lets stop bitching at each other over bullshit and actually wagon scum today then?
I need to sort: Snowstorm, matt, damon, dv.
Are you townreading matt at all?
Snowstorm is another ball of wax. I really liked his posts all of yesterday, up until the hop to Luca. That really took me by surprise and didn't fit with anything else he'd said. He was happy to push ThAd with me, but "compromised" on Luca? When they were tied up all the way to the hammer? It doesn't seem right.
p-edit: posts to read in a second.- Snork
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Yeah but look at WHAT he said. He's not defending himself the entire post. The majority of that post is his general opinion onother players. He shot off a one-line in response to your comment about him, and then moved on to what he thinks about other people. He's not even fighting you about it. He's just keeping on with what he was doing.- Snork
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I'm busy at the moment, but would like to respond to a few things I read this morning:
* ThAd agreeing with me on Rach and voting there did not go unnoticed, to whoever asked.
* The thought that AP might be scum crosses my mind all the time, but a lot of it is paranoia as I continually ISO him and can't find much that troubles me, plus the fact that he is questioning everything and it's pretty clear he's actually trying to figure things out, rather than pin somebody.
* I don't understand what the difference makes for me to go after Rach today, as opposed to yesterday. Yesterday, I wanted to lynch talah, who I was convinced was scum. Rach was also a strong scum read and independent of talah. Add to this, her horrible excuse about her Luca vote, and her shoddy explanation, strengthens this read, so yeah I want to lynch her. She's scum.
* Snowstorm would be a good choice as well, but I'm worried about PA being the one to push it. I've never seen MR before, but I've seen PA, so the fact that she still hasn't really done much analysis is troubling, since that's kind of... what she does as town. Of course I haven't discarded my town read on MR prior to the replace out; however, looking at some of Nero's points from yesterday other than the "posting too much" thing, he made some good points, and I am not happy with PA thus far. Edit: AND her snippy response above? Not really the same tone from street racer. At all. At. All.
I was townreading snow yesterday but his vote switch really bugs the fuck out of me. He was rallying hard for talah, only to switch when the wagons were tied? I don't get it.
More later.- Snork
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Well ok that's fine if you think my reasoning is crap. But I guess I don't understand how that changes your perception ofher… if you thought she was scum, my consideration of her play wouldn't, or shouldn't change that, since that is my doing and not hers. The same should be true if you thought she was town.- Snork
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I never said that. It CAN be, if you combine it with other factors. However, it's MY alignment this would be indicative of, not hers. Since it's MY reasoning, not hers. But you were scumreading both of us yesterday, and my read on her hasn't changed. The only thing that has changed is YOUR read on her. The fact that I am still scumreading her is just as shitty a reason to flip your read on her as her reason for flipping on luca.In post 2030, Nero Cain wrote:So you think that if a bad case is being pushed then its alignment irrelevant? I disagree and I think that's a large source of mislynchs on this site.
So what do you think of all the others calling her town?
And as for the people who are town reading her, I think they are missing it. The claim she is making is so clearly false I have a hard time feeling like anyone townreading her isn't just stupid. I know they're not but that is my gut reaction. I can't understand how anyone could look at her ISO and think that pity party of bullshit excuses and lies is fucking town. And it pisses me off quite honestly.- Snork
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Nero I understand you thinl the CASE is crap. I don't think you're getting my point, which is that if you are scum reading two people, one of which is scum reading the other, and the next day that person is still scum reading the other, and forms an argument that you think is crap, that shouldn't affect your read on rach. If anything it should strengthen your scumread on me yet that hasnt happened. You all of a sudden town read rach and are pushing thad.
Whatever. You aren't going to get it cuz I don't know how else to explain what I mean. And regarding thad on the wagon, I mean how many times do I have to say that didn't work yesterday? Why would I use the same method today?- Snork
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I'm sorry. I can't read words right now. I'm tired and my bladder you know is off the hook so even though I don't have to go to the bathroom right now, and I'm on the computer and typing this, I can't read or contribute anything you know because my body is preventing me from playing this game that I signed up for knowing that it would be a large number of players with many posts to read and it is my responsibility to participate I just have this horrible backache and despite sitting down with pillows and stuff I can't read things.
I'll be back tomorrow with a similar reason for not posting anything relevant, so stay tuned.
I'm obvtown now, right?- Snork
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AP, I don't agree RM is town. The only thing that struck a chord was the fact that others here may have better meta on her, which I really can't argue. The only problem I have with that is that I don't know if the people vouching for her are scum and protecting a buddy or town with actual better meta. I still think she's fucking scum and I will figure it out. You can bet money on that, I will figure her out.
It pisses me off because if she IS town, this kind of behavior is absolutely abhorrent. She's letting down her entire team. I take my role PM pretty seriously. It's a promise that I will contribute my skills and my perspective to help my team win. If we are on the same team, I just don't even know how to respond. She's not scum hunting. She's not contributing. She's not furthering the town wincon. I don't give a shit what outside forces are at play here because she made a commitment. I can only assume that she is playing towards a different wincon and try my best to fucking lynch her.
She is NOT going in my town pile today. It's not happening. But I will put it on hold until tomorrow if people are seriously not concerned with it and not willing to help me.- Snork
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And also, if she's town, there's no fucking way scum are going to kill her because she HELPS THEM by being fucking useless and out of touch with the game.
I don't know about you, but I don't want her in fucking LYLO and if I had a fucking gun I'd shoot her myself but I don't so I ask for her to be lynched and it's like everyone has lost their minds.- Snork
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I get what you're saying. This is all just very frustrating for me. I'm not good at explaining things but I think I'm good at seeing people's motivations. Therein lies the fucking problem because I can't relay what I see.
Maybe ThAd is buddying. I can't help but like what he has been saying today. I have yet to re-read him yesterday with talah/luca flips in mind. YES I KNOW I SAID I WOULD DO STUFF and I am, one at a time, and this week that's meant one or half of one per day cuz I've been busy (AND LOOK EVEN BUSY I AM KEEPING UP! ) Now that it's Friday I can finally finish everything.
I also didn't catch that you don't like the fact that my reads changed until ThAd just pointed it out (or AP, I don't remember). Why? If you understand my process, why then don't you understand why the reads changed after the flip, even if you don't agree with them?
Yesterday, I read the game when I replaced in looking for people being opportunistic, being serious about pushing low hanging fruit or total nulls, contradicting themselves, etc and I ended up looking at Talah. Then I read ISOs of people who had a strong opinion about him, as well as those who had a strong opinion about his target (Luca). From that, I sorted my reads based on who I thought was genuinely believing talah or who I thought was just helping him push a case because it was convenient, as well as people hard defending either.
So, the point is, once I had my eyes on talah, people that ended up in "the rest" after my first read through got sortedbased on talah/luca. If one of them had flipped scum this would have, or should have, resulted in firmer reads, and sorting "the rest" that remained after initial sorting.
That plan blew the fuck up when both of them flipped town. So not only was my scum read town, but everyone I'd sortedbased on that readcould be fucking anything.
I went back to my solid town/scum reads that were formed independent of talah/luca, and gauged from there, my first reads list of the day, and started ISOing those in and on either side of "the rest", while responding to those in the extremes (town/scum).
Does that make sense?- Snork
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Yeah but he's not sure about me, and thinks ThAd is riding the wave of my bad case on Rach and thus his read on Rach is more a combination of me PLUS ThAd.. I believe.In post 2063, AngryPidgeon wrote:
Snork is making a bad case on her so she must be town? Shouldn't you be voting Snork then?In post 2060, Nero Cain wrote:How do I look town but you don't know why I'm town reading Rach?
He explained that.
I think you're town and I think Nero's town, and you think we're both town, so can we look at people we all don't think are town?- Snork
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Not well. It got really busy at work and I've gotten a bit overwhelmed with this game. I've just been skimming and seeing who is voting for who and trying to quickly find why, but it's not really helping as I have had like zero time buuuuuuut that's over on Wednesday.In post 2214, Snork wrote:Can someone who has played a lot with AngryPidgeon explain why he is scum please? Because I think he's town.
I asked about the AP scum reads because that was what I was most interested in, and didn't see an answer but if I missed it I'll catch it on my read through tomorrow. I can understand why people are scumreading pisskop slot but I don't agree. Other than those two, I don't really know what's going on right now, and didn't feel it was fair to post comments or get into a discussion with someone without actually having read the last few pages or being able to contribute my opinions about them.- Snork
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How did it quote the wrong thing.... I'm really tired. This is what I was responding too.In post 2215, Nero Cain wrote:hows that catchup going?- Snork
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Well, mainly cuz I can't read them. I find their posts to be... eye glazing. I've actually been shit this whole day so a lot of the posts are eye glazing, but those two the most. Plus I have somewhat solid reads elsewhere except for them. I was townreading MR pretty well until the end, and penguin_alien kind of.. erased all of that. Her tone is totally different and I don't really know how to reconcile that.In post 2270, Nero Cain wrote:
might be scum. If Mastin flips scum is PA scum?In post 2264, AngryPidgeon wrote:Nero, what do you think about mastin?
Why?In post 2260, Snork wrote:k. I'm ignoring pa, ignoring mastin.
Then there's the fact that people are talking about lynching between snowstorm and TWIE, both slots I can understand being scum read, but both I have this like... gut-sinking feeling about. I really like snowstorm. I like almost all of his posts, but the few that I don't like, Ireallydon't like. It's extremely troubling. As for TWIE, my read on the slot is entirely based on pisskop, and TWIE's posts have been... insignificant, I guess is the best way to put it.- Snork
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Just...In post 2276, Egg wrote:Rach is probably the most obvtown player in the game
fucking... no.
What the fuck is wrong with everyone?- Snork
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You didn't do VCA. What you did was quote the VC and spout arbitrary conclusions without any foundation.In post 2273, RachMarie wrote:what about the VCA I did? On both wagons and on those on neither wagon, you seemed to have forgotten that Thad
That is not VCA.
That is either guessing or framing.- Snork
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The way he questions people, and the way his thought process is so transparent in the thread. Like, you can see how he comes to his conclusions through his posts. It's all there. And it's not just posting thoughts, it's the way he's interacting with people. His reads also seem pretty fluid. And I don't get a manipulative twisting jumpy feel from his suspicions.In post 2275, projectmatt wrote:Why do you think that AngryPidgeon is town?- Snork
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Finally starting to catch up here.
UNVOTE:
Caught something very helpful.
Solid town, never gonna lynch ever in a million years:
Egg
SiX
DV
By extension town:
Nero
RM
And that's where I'm at right now. Willing to vote ThAd but I want to finish my catch up and get back into this. I will have questions for people, and I'm not ready to end the day yet.- Snork
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Snark instead of adding your opinion about something that wasn't directed at you nor about you?In post 2331, SnowStorm wrote:
Oh, wow. Such rage. Very town.In post 2325, AngryPidgeon wrote:Do YOU see Thad's latest bout of frustration aimed specifically at Nero being from scum? That emotion is pretty hard to fake and I dont see why scum would do something so likely to draw attention, especially from Nero who is tentatively voting people who arent Thad. Its just town rage. Pretty sure.
Why? This is one of those posts I mentioned that I really don't like.- Snork
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You had pointed out the way he'd asked talah about mastin, which I didn't really get at the time I read it but based on the way he was talking to other people it didn't really seem congruent. And also the point about how he was backtracking his reasoning. Later he got kind of crazy and his responses to you seemed really.. not like exasperated town but like someone run out of answers. Add that pa hasn't really made me feel particularly good about the slot I went back and looked at MR albeit more generally due to the post count.
Town by extension.. eh I dunno. Kinda not the wording I wanted; applies more to RM but makes sense in my head to have you there too. - Snork
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