Mini 382: Small Town Mafia - Game Over!


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Post Post #200 (ISO) » Wed Nov 15, 2006 11:36 am

Post by Adele »

Votecount

Eon
: 1 (StallingChamp)
Zindaras
: 2 (Eon, Thesp)

Not voting: 5 (Kelly Chen, Save The Dragons, Klebian, Zindaras, Relyte)
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Post Post #201 (ISO) » Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:15 pm

Post by klebian »

Save The Dragons wrote:
klebian wrote:after all, I'd have rather picked someone who is more confirmed town.
Fine. I'm not talking to you tonight...:roll:

No one is more 'confirmed town.' You may think people are more likely to be town.

Why do you think I'm scum, Klebian?
Eh, I guess I did write that wrong, I meant, more likely to be town... Because I think there are people LESS scummy than you. I don't think you're scum, at any rate. (at the moment)
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Post Post #202 (ISO) » Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:37 am

Post by Save The Dragons »

it's almost become the norm for replacements to be saved from the clutches of death just because they've replaced.

I'm not so sure this is a good thing if we still find you scummy.

hmm. I want to look over what you said, but right now I'm kinda out of it.
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Post Post #203 (ISO) » Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:49 am

Post by Zindaras »

I don't think I should simply not be lynched because I replaced Ixnayon. However, I do think that you shouldn't simply condemn me over Ixnayon's behaviour. I think I shouldn't be lynched because I make valid points and other people are scummier than I am.
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Finished: 159 (120 Town, 33 Mafia, 5 Other, 1 Cult, 4 Cultivated)
68 Wins, 71 Losses
Town: 52 Wins, 54 Losses (2 Wins as Cult)
Mafia: 13 Wins, 15 Losses (1 Win as Cult)
Other: 3 Wins, 1 Loss (1 Win as Cult)
Cult: 0 Wins, 1 Loss
Cultivated: 4 Wins, 0 Losses
59 Survived, 31 Lynched, 60 Killed
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Post Post #204 (ISO) » Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:16 am

Post by Kelly Chen »

Rereading most of this game has made me more suspicious of klebian. Early in the game he scored town points with me (not understanding a town blocker's purpose, noting that Maximus failed to put the watcher in his list of target options), but after those events I feel he's been scummy. ("View all posts by klebian" works since he only has like 24 posts.) I'm disturbed that he seemed relucant to lynch Maximus (although granted, he was also trying to interrogate him), but seemed fairly indifferent about who hammered Eon early on day 2.

I would like to hear klebian's suspect list.

I can still
fairly
easily see Thesp as scum trying to look town by hammering Eon. I only think this less likely due to Thesp saying he'd hammer Eon before the SK was dead. But I suppose if CES had hit him, the argument for Thesp hammering Eon would be gone.

If Eon is scum I think his behavior is too risky (allowing us to have someone of his choosing hammer him, although if he's scum that would lose the game at once for him). It's a bit possible that I just can't read him.

I'm leaning towards Thesp hammering Eon as thought before, as this helps us if either is scum.

If Zindaras is going to be useful I'm in no hurry to lynch him. He's already expressed reluctance to hammer, so if that's a scum tell, he's already made it. We could push him a bit further I suppose.

Other than the fact that Eon appeared to defend Maximus (but in a pretty obvious way), I didn't find Zindaras' apparent case against Eon to be persuasive. I actually find it fishy that Zindaras prefers to lynch Eon. It seems like an easy choice, unless of course he's made to be the hammer.

I'm not currently suspicious of Relyte or Stalling.
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Post Post #205 (ISO) » Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:26 am

Post by Zindaras »

I am looking further than Eon. I've posted additional suspicions against StD, klebian and StallingChamp. My preference for the lynching of Eon stems from the fact that my case against him is strongest in my eyes.

I'm feeling a bit ignored, actually. Were my points not clear enough and must I restate my cases against the people on my suspect list?
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Finished: 159 (120 Town, 33 Mafia, 5 Other, 1 Cult, 4 Cultivated)
68 Wins, 71 Losses
Town: 52 Wins, 54 Losses (2 Wins as Cult)
Mafia: 13 Wins, 15 Losses (1 Win as Cult)
Other: 3 Wins, 1 Loss (1 Win as Cult)
Cult: 0 Wins, 1 Loss
Cultivated: 4 Wins, 0 Losses
59 Survived, 31 Lynched, 60 Killed
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Post Post #206 (ISO) » Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:40 am

Post by Kelly Chen »

Sure you're looking further than Eon, but ultimately you're voting Eon, so I'm looking at that. I am not seeing why you find the case against Eon to be strongest.
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Post Post #207 (ISO) » Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:58 am

Post by Zindaras »

Fair enough, let me restate why I think my case against Eon is strong: (all from my previous post)
Eon wrote:So i might agree with Maxi, of course i have some questions here.
Note how he never follows up and actually asks those questions?
Also Maxi, seriously im thinking right now, everyone besides some people seem to agree that Cogito might be scum, and i might agree with this also.
"Everyone besides some people seem to agree that..."

"I might agree that Cogito might be scum."

It seems to me like Eon's trying not to take a stance here.
But lets get attention on Thesp, he protects Cogito. He Thinks YOU = scum. And already says you are play of the day. Thesp also seems to have problems to understand THAT EVERY ROLE in this game can turn up scum or SK.
Trying to detract attention away from Maximus/Cogito.
If we vote against Danny this turn, [yes im going to sound scummy now] we can say for sure next turn how true his role is. We dont lose anything, this action can be called as CHECKING. People dont think i do this because im scared of his role, but his latests posts are definately worth a FOS.
He wants to check Danny. But why? We know he's Danny, there's no reason for any checking, it just wastes a lynch. You don't vote Danny to check him, you vote Danny to lynch him.
Eon wrote:Maximus understood EVERYONE CAN BE SCUM even such role like Cogito. Heh you could swear you would get SK, well nobody is sure that you arent =] And i really dont mind testing that someday.
Note how he leaves out all the discussion about how the Tracker would be a bad target for the Roleblocker, if he were town.
I think [scummy stuff ahead] if we keep both of them tonight we might get more info. I dont have any ideas soo i just tell random suggestions i can freely vote against anyone who i find scummy. And right now i can point finger at 3 people.
He wants to keep both Maximus and Cogito around.
Eon wrote:Thesp seriously, you try to avoid facts, i was 50/50
That's definitely not the impression I got from reading his posts.
Ixnayo was 100% sure about Maximus being good guy.


Blatant misrepresentation much? Ixnayon's only post said absolutely nothing about Maximus being 100% sure town.
Eon wrote:Same so lets lynch him, because other person is going to be in same situation as he was.
He's basically suggesting a speedlynch, something for which he found Thesp scummy Day One.


I hope I've made my case clearer.
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Finished: 159 (120 Town, 33 Mafia, 5 Other, 1 Cult, 4 Cultivated)
68 Wins, 71 Losses
Town: 52 Wins, 54 Losses (2 Wins as Cult)
Mafia: 13 Wins, 15 Losses (1 Win as Cult)
Other: 3 Wins, 1 Loss (1 Win as Cult)
Cult: 0 Wins, 1 Loss
Cultivated: 4 Wins, 0 Losses
59 Survived, 31 Lynched, 60 Killed
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Post Post #208 (ISO) » Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:19 pm

Post by Save The Dragons »

Vote: Eon
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Post Post #209 (ISO) » Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:24 pm

Post by Eon »

Again i never picked sides on DAY 1 because one of them lied and it was hard to say who. Thesp was yelling that Maximus and me are scums, so he was a bit suspicious in my eyes. Ixnayo did 1 post where he stood on Max's side.

I dont mind to be hammered, since i have nothing to hide. But i would like to take scum with me, Zindaras.
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Post Post #210 (ISO) » Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:55 am

Post by Thesp »

Unvote: Zindaras, Vote: Eon.
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Post Post #211 (ISO) » Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:20 am

Post by Kelly Chen »

Zindaras wrote:Fair enough, let me restate why I think my case against Eon is strong:
Ok, thanks for doing that. I still dislike a lot of your points and am skeptical that a pro-town player would be making them.
Eon wrote:So i might agree with Maxi, of course i have some questions here.
Note how he never follows up and actually asks those questions?
How do you know what he's talking about? Right after he says this he quotes Thesp and asks him a question.
Also Maxi, seriously im thinking right now, everyone besides some people seem to agree that Cogito might be scum, and i might agree with this also.
"Everyone besides some people seem to agree that..."

"I might agree that Cogito might be scum."

It seems to me like Eon's trying not to take a stance here.
I think this is uncharitable. This paragraph (the second half of which is below) is taking a stance on Thesp. I think it's clear that he's saying he isn't sure yet what he thinks about CES, and there's nothing inherently scummy about that.
But lets get attention on Thesp, he protects Cogito. He Thinks YOU = scum. And already says you are play of the day. Thesp also seems to have problems to understand THAT EVERY ROLE in this game can turn up scum or SK.
Trying to detract attention away from Maximus/Cogito.
If Eon is scum, wouldn't this be puzzling as a tactic? Is your idea that Eon felt Maximus would be lynched if it came down to him vs. CES? Because I don't get the impression that Eon had a clear understanding of this.
If we vote against Danny this turn, [yes im going to sound scummy now] we can say for sure next turn how true his role is. We dont lose anything, this action can be called as CHECKING. People dont think i do this because im scared of his role, but his latests posts are definately worth a FOS.
He wants to check Danny. But why? We know he's Danny, there's no reason for any checking, it just wastes a lynch. You don't vote Danny to check him, you vote Danny to lynch him.
He explained later that he didn't think Thesp's ability would work if he were scum. I grant that it is scummy to confuse the rules with this apparent agenda in mind.
Eon wrote:Maximus understood EVERYONE CAN BE SCUM even such role like Cogito. Heh you could swear you would get SK, well nobody is sure that you arent =] And i really dont mind testing that someday.
Note how he leaves out all the discussion about how the Tracker would be a bad target for the Roleblocker, if he were town.
It's true that at no point did Eon seem to understand that argument. In 65, 68, and 70, he seems to acknowledge the argument but be unsure of how good it is. This could be scummy, or it could be legitimate.
I think [scummy stuff ahead] if we keep both of them tonight we might get more info. I dont have any ideas soo i just tell random suggestions i can freely vote against anyone who i find scummy. And right now i can point finger at 3 people.
He wants to keep both Maximus and Cogito around.
Is it scummy to want to keep Cogito around?
Eon wrote:Thesp seriously, you try to avoid facts, i was 50/50
That's definitely not the impression I got from reading his posts.
Well, he wanted to keep them both alive. Maximus happened to be under more fire.
Ixnayo was 100% sure about Maximus being good guy.

Blatant misrepresentation much? Ixnayon's only post said absolutely nothing about Maximus being 100% sure town.
True, but also pretty uncharitable... What Eon could have said and been right about is that Ixnay's post was 100% on Maximus' side vs. CES' side. That is a considerable component of why Ixnay was suspicious.
Eon wrote:Same so lets lynch him, because other person is going to be in same situation as he was.
He's basically suggesting a speedlynch, something for which he found Thesp scummy Day One.
I don't think this would be a speedlynch at all. I advocated the same position earlier because it seemed unnecessary to me to stick a replacement with Ixnay's position.


I'd like a
prod on Relyte
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Post Post #212 (ISO) » Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:44 am

Post by Zindaras »

Kelly Chen wrote:How do you know what he's talking about? Right after he says this he quotes Thesp and asks him a question.
That's not the way I interpreted that post, but I guess yours is possible...
I think this is uncharitable. This paragraph (the second half of which is below) is taking a stance on Thesp. I think it's clear that he's saying he isn't sure yet what he thinks about CES, and there's nothing inherently scummy about that.
A stance on Thesp, indeed. Again, may I add, detracting from Cogito/Maximus. Thesp who was, by the way, a staunch supporter of a Maximus lynch. His stance on Cogito is accurately described as "whatever other people think of him." He also avoids taking a stance on Maximus.
Trying to detract attention away from Maximus/Cogito.
If Eon is scum, wouldn't this be puzzling as a tactic? Is your idea that Eon felt Maximus would be lynched if it came down to him vs. CES? Because I don't get the impression that Eon had a clear understanding of this.[/quote]

Eon was casting doubt on Thesp. Thesp heavily supported a Maximus lynch. By getting rid of Thesp, he would've increased the chances of Maximus surviving the next day.
Is it scummy to want to keep Cogito around?
Is it townie to want to keep Maximus around?

By lumping Cogito in with Maximus, he avoids looking like complete assured scum when Maximus comes up scum.
Well, he wanted to keep them both alive. Maximus happened to be under more fire.
As you said, he wanted to keep them both alive. That's not 50/50.
True, but also pretty uncharitable... What Eon could have said and been right about is that Ixnay's post was 100% on Maximus' side vs. CES' side. That is a considerable component of why Ixnay was suspicious.
To be honest, I probably would've wanted a CES lynch that day as well. It was really quite obvious to me that CES was the SK.

By lynching CES, we would've gotten rid of the SK kill. Now, this move turned out for the best, due to the scum cross-killing, but that's how I see it.

And yes, I would've went for Maximus the day after, since he pretty much had to be scum with the choice he made, but I really don't see the scumminess in taking Maximus's side against CES. Taking Maximus's side on other subjects (like his lynch), yes. Taking side against CES, no.
I don't think this would be a speedlynch at all. I advocated the same position earlier because it seemed unnecessary to me to stick a replacement with Ixnay's position.
Well, I think I'm doing fairly well.
I'd like a
prod on Relyte
Agreed.
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Finished: 159 (120 Town, 33 Mafia, 5 Other, 1 Cult, 4 Cultivated)
68 Wins, 71 Losses
Town: 52 Wins, 54 Losses (2 Wins as Cult)
Mafia: 13 Wins, 15 Losses (1 Win as Cult)
Other: 3 Wins, 1 Loss (1 Win as Cult)
Cult: 0 Wins, 1 Loss
Cultivated: 4 Wins, 0 Losses
59 Survived, 31 Lynched, 60 Killed
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Post Post #213 (ISO) » Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:45 am

Post by Zindaras »

EBWOP: I'd also like to see some more posts from klebian and StallingChamp.
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Finished: 159 (120 Town, 33 Mafia, 5 Other, 1 Cult, 4 Cultivated)
68 Wins, 71 Losses
Town: 52 Wins, 54 Losses (2 Wins as Cult)
Mafia: 13 Wins, 15 Losses (1 Win as Cult)
Other: 3 Wins, 1 Loss (1 Win as Cult)
Cult: 0 Wins, 1 Loss
Cultivated: 4 Wins, 0 Losses
59 Survived, 31 Lynched, 60 Killed
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Post Post #214 (ISO) » Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:14 am

Post by Eon »

I couldn't PICK sides on day one because i was unsure about Maximus and Cogito. One of them was scum thats for sure, and i was going to be on Cogito, in case you forgot look at questions i asked.
But after Maximus was lynched i understood im going to be target of tommorow. Cogito ended as Serial Killer and Other scum was killed.

Now im going to explain my references on Thesp yesterday.
My role is very dangerous because its on towns side, and Scum cant possibly win if im alive. Thesp is the only weapon against me, because he has 2 lifes. 1 of his life can be used against me. But if in the end he has 2 lifes and he is scum i can say im doomed.

Plus people you must agree on MY place you would kill THESP because he would suspect me and try to eliminate me next turn. By killing him i could be sure to take someone with me.

I tell again i have nothing to hide.
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Post Post #215 (ISO) » Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:22 am

Post by Zindaras »

Eon wrote:Again i never picked sides on DAY 1 because one of them lied and it was hard to say who. Thesp was yelling that Maximus and me are scums, so he was a bit suspicious in my eyes. Ixnayo did 1 post where he stood on Max's side.
1: Both of them lied.
2: You're confusing being against CES and being against a Maximus lynch.
Eon wrote:I couldn't PICK sides on day one because i was unsure about Maximus and Cogito. One of them was scum thats for sure, and i was going to be on Cogito, in case you forgot look at questions i asked.
But after Maximus was lynched i understood im going to be target of tommorow. Cogito ended as Serial Killer and Other scum was killed.
Both of them were scum, that was, in my eyes, the case (and I was right). In that case it is, in my eyes, best to lynch Self Aligned scum first.
Plus people you must agree on MY place you would kill THESP because he would suspect me and try to eliminate me next turn. By killing him i could be sure to take someone with me.
I don't consider Thesp to be scummy at all at this point in the game, so I wouldn't try to kill Thesp.
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Finished: 159 (120 Town, 33 Mafia, 5 Other, 1 Cult, 4 Cultivated)
68 Wins, 71 Losses
Town: 52 Wins, 54 Losses (2 Wins as Cult)
Mafia: 13 Wins, 15 Losses (1 Win as Cult)
Other: 3 Wins, 1 Loss (1 Win as Cult)
Cult: 0 Wins, 1 Loss
Cultivated: 4 Wins, 0 Losses
59 Survived, 31 Lynched, 60 Killed
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Post Post #216 (ISO) » Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:47 am

Post by Eon »

You wouldn't kill Thesp because he is against me and to eliminate me its good to have THESP with 2 lifes on side.

Watch idea,

1- Thesp is against Eon
2- Thesp survives night with 2 lifes.
3- Thesp agrees to hammer Eon, and has 1 life remaining.
4- Scum kills someone else because THESPs role becomes pointless.
5- Scum tries to keep Thesp till the end because eliminating power roles is more useful than eliminating him.
6- Killing powerrole makes it harder to find scum.
7- Eliminating Eon who stands on towns side is best idea.
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Post Post #217 (ISO) » Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:54 am

Post by Zindaras »

There are no power roles remaining. None of the roles left remaining are, in any way, useful for confirming someone as innocent or scum.

Except Thesp, of course, who can be confirmed by being killed at night.
Show
Finished: 159 (120 Town, 33 Mafia, 5 Other, 1 Cult, 4 Cultivated)
68 Wins, 71 Losses
Town: 52 Wins, 54 Losses (2 Wins as Cult)
Mafia: 13 Wins, 15 Losses (1 Win as Cult)
Other: 3 Wins, 1 Loss (1 Win as Cult)
Cult: 0 Wins, 1 Loss
Cultivated: 4 Wins, 0 Losses
59 Survived, 31 Lynched, 60 Killed
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Post Post #218 (ISO) » Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:01 am

Post by Eon »

Everyone in this town has role

Eon
You are Angry Stu. You are angry. If anyone kills you, that’ll piss you off something awful.
Rarr!

If you are killed, the person to cause your death – the last voter or the person who made the nightchoice – will die too.


Kelly Chen
You are Zoe. You sense things from dead people. Dead people are so much easier.
Live people suck.

Each night, you figure out all the people who ever night-targeted the person who just got lynched.

Save the Dragons
You are Johnny. You are a pacifist. You like to stop fights. You are a very nice person.
Everyone likes you!

If someone gets half the votes (so is “lynched”) you can still pardon them (you have 48 hours to do so, which I guarantee twilight won’t last less than). You can do it max once per day, and you can’t pardon yourself. You can’t vote again in a day after pardoning someone and even if you pardon them, if they go on to get a two-thirds majority, they’ll still die.

Klebian
You are Rasheed. You can shout really loud. People listen to you once and then again to the echo!

You are a double-voter. Every vote you place counts double, whether you want it to or not.

Relyte
You are Elwood. You like people. Each night you can make a friend.
Yay!

Each night you can recruit one player into the Happy Friends Club, and members of the Happy Friends Club can speak to each other at night (a masonry without alignment assurance).

StallingChamp
You are Rob. You are awesome! Each night you look at yourself.
Time well spent!

Each night you watch yourself and detect all people targeting you



I think those roles will be more useful than THESPs if he died.
Only scums died for now, so how can you say we dont have power roles.
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Post Post #219 (ISO) » Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:08 am

Post by Zindaras »

None of the roles will help us in any way to confirm anyone's alignment.

Tell me, how will Rob, Elwood, Rasheed, Johnny, Zoe or Stu help with confirming someone's alignment?

The only player whose alignment can be reasonably confirmed is Thesp if he loses one of his lives (though even that is WIFOM) due to a NK.

The roles aren't power roles. The Watcher, the Roleblocker, the Tracker and the Lover were power roles (though the Lover isn't extremely powerful).
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Finished: 159 (120 Town, 33 Mafia, 5 Other, 1 Cult, 4 Cultivated)
68 Wins, 71 Losses
Town: 52 Wins, 54 Losses (2 Wins as Cult)
Mafia: 13 Wins, 15 Losses (1 Win as Cult)
Other: 3 Wins, 1 Loss (1 Win as Cult)
Cult: 0 Wins, 1 Loss
Cultivated: 4 Wins, 0 Losses
59 Survived, 31 Lynched, 60 Killed
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Post Post #220 (ISO) » Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:19 am

Post by Eon »

Those roles will become powerful if they are used right.
Because game STANDS ON THEM.[somehow]
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Post Post #221 (ISO) » Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:24 am

Post by Zindaras »

Eon wrote:Those roles will become powerful if they are used right.
Because game STANDS ON THEM.[somehow]
That's not an answer to my question.
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Finished: 159 (120 Town, 33 Mafia, 5 Other, 1 Cult, 4 Cultivated)
68 Wins, 71 Losses
Town: 52 Wins, 54 Losses (2 Wins as Cult)
Mafia: 13 Wins, 15 Losses (1 Win as Cult)
Other: 3 Wins, 1 Loss (1 Win as Cult)
Cult: 0 Wins, 1 Loss
Cultivated: 4 Wins, 0 Losses
59 Survived, 31 Lynched, 60 Killed
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Post Post #222 (ISO) » Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:29 am

Post by Eon »

Those roles dont discover alligement, but those roles are more based on trust.
And those roles might finish scum, for example Klebians 2 votes. They are useful for town unless he is scum.

Im kinda sure i should trust Thesp at this point. Because he was the one who lynched Maximus, if it would be him we would have 3 scums now.

Because Cogito would be lynched and 3 scums would live.

So he deserves more trust than you.

Other people voted against Maximus, and willow weeps was the only one who didnt do that. Ixnayo tried to join Maximus.

My vote WONT Go anywhere because im kinda sure about your side.
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Adele
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Post Post #223 (ISO) » Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:21 am

Post by Adele »

Relyte=prodly shame

Votecount

Eon: 3 (StallingChamp, Save The Dragons, Thesp)
Zindaras: 1 (Eon)
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Post Post #224 (ISO) » Sun Nov 19, 2006 4:34 am

Post by StallingChamp »

I still think Zindras should hammer Eon now.
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