Tales of You (Endgame)

[Nachomamma8]

Do you think you've been town this game? Be honest.

[Nachomamma8]

It's also not a lack of caution: you're getting POE'd out pretty strongly at this point of time. If you haven't seen that happen to people before, well.

[Nachomamma8]

We're not lynching AP today, sorry Falcon.

I feel like Im just being a voice lost in the wind about him.

---

I get that we probably won't lynch him over Cupcake considering Desp-BRO seemingly confirming him.

I am talking more about the fact that no one besides AP/Cupcake is going to be lynched today - at all. I find it unlikely this day will end in anything other than Cupcake being lynched.

I disagree. I would prefer one of the other 5.

Why?

[Nachomamma8]

Despite the role results?

[Nachomamma8]

why is it hard to believe someone else did too?

What does this even mean?

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, would it fail if I sent you the results tonight?

Yes.

[Nachomamma8]

My bad. Whose results did I miss?

[Nachomamma8]

So, it means, Angry could be town with actual results and Cupcake could be town but roleblocked.

Despite a town blocker flipped and two others claiming roleblocked.

[Nachomamma8]

Stalin is confirmed town and blocked.
Gary claimed roleblocked pretty much immediately, meaning that he's not just claiming roleblocked to get Cupcake lynched.

[Nachomamma8]

I never said that he claimed in order to get KAtsuki lynched. For that to happen....I dont even know who would have to be in on it. JSU might be probable scum?

Katsuki.

[Nachomamma8]

Seems possible, I guess!

[Nachomamma8]

Or maybe scum rolecopped him N1 and then tracked him N2???
Boy it is fun trying to come with theories that ignore the obvious.

[Nachomamma8]

I could see PV trying to steer the lynch away from the Panda and into the pool of people that are mislynches in this case. In particular, the "I wanna lynch Magenta" makes me think Pv/Magenta are not on the same team. I could see a few people in that last slot. foxhound is possible, maybe Nacho. I sort of expect at least SOMEONE is bussing cupcake right now and JSU seems like the least likely to be doing it*. Not ruling that out.

You really really need to keep your paranoia in check. Do you think PV as scum is capable of picking his mislynches?

[Nachomamma8]

I'm officially banning the phrase "lolcabdgame".

[Nachomamma8]

I never said that he claimed in order to get KAtsuki lynched. For that to happen....I dont even know who would have to be in on it. JSU might be probable scum?

Katsuki.

Like this. I have no idea what this is about.

If Katsuki was town, the only person who would know Katsuki delayed motivated AP would be Katsuki, or scum who rolecopped him N1 and tracked him N2. Hence, my response was tongue in cheek because the line of thought there was pretty useless.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm officially banning the phrase "lolcabdgame".

LOLCABDGAME

reported

[Nachomamma8]

How unlikely is a Mafia 1-shot Janitor Vig in this game???

It is exactly "lolcabdgame" likely.

Ok, so?

What does everybody think about PV's

play

this game on D2 in particular. He vig's RBD then shoves mastin really hard on D2 over ....?? I cant remember why he thoiught mastin was scum other than to quote some of the more ridiculous speculation mastin was vomiting and call it unlikely and scummy. Which it was unlikely. And easy to make a case off of.

Suddenly we ML mastin and PV decides not to shoot until RBD flips because ????. Would that have affected his mastin read, knowing that RBD was town?

remember when you were like "oh there's no use in searching for associatives because we'll know the answer soon enough?".
we're lynching Katsuki today.
PV is shooting tonight.
All questions of PV's alignment shouldn't be a question once he shoots tonight.

[Nachomamma8]

There's also the part where we don't know what a Persona-Roleblcoker is. Maybe he blocks people from having their persona (gender/age/origin)?

The persona part probably has to do with the coming back to life part.

[Nachomamma8]

we're lynching Katsuki today.
PV is shooting tonight.
All questions of PV's alignment shouldn't be a question once he shoots tonight.

I agree that there is no way in hell Im lynching PV Today.
What happens tomorrow when one of me/stalin gets NK'd and PV is like "huh well I submitted a vig on Magenta but it didnt go through"

Then there's DesBro. Was he blocked?
There's the only other one of Stalin/you. Were you blocked?
If the answer is yes to both, PV actually becomes somewhat suspicious. If it's not, I don't give a shit, give him another day.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm officially banning the phrase "lolcabdgame".

You can't do that. It will spoil the drinking game.

We can drink every time someone gets modkilled!
Drinking games will always survive. Sanity will not.

[Nachomamma8]

even-night.

eta CABD's drinking game.

Then if he gets blocked I'll shrug and give him another day.
And if he gets blocked the next day I'll shrug and give him another day.
And if he gets blocked the next day... maybe I'll look at him again?

[Nachomamma8]

If you are a one-shot mafia vig, generally you just claim one-shot vig and don't pretend to be full.

[Nachomamma8]

Or you don't claim vig and instead screw people over in endgame?

[Nachomamma8]

Full Vig is a much less scummy claim than 1x Vig.

Except when you can't shoot at all for the rest of the game.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho's obvfuckingscum but y'all just gonna be bad and let him live all game.

Man this feels like a repeat of that last CBAD game.

Which one?
The one where I was town, or... the one where I was town?

[Nachomamma8]

Or maybe you're thinking of the one where I was town???

[Nachomamma8]

My play here reminds you of my play there?

[Nachomamma8]

Please continue.

[Nachomamma8]

I just asked Cabd if a Tracker would be able to see an action if that action were successfully Delayed on the same night. The answer was no.

Katsuki is confirmed to have not Delayed me

Okay. Let's work out all the other possible ways that his action could have failed.

We've found the one way his action could have failed.
We've found the one way Katsuki could possibly be town.
They are both extraordinarily unlikely scenarios.

[Nachomamma8]

I don't think getting any more convoluted than we already have is beneficial.

[Nachomamma8]

I just asked Cabd if a Tracker would be able to see an action if that action were successfully Delayed on the same night. The answer was no.

Katsuki is confirmed to have not Delayed me

Okay. Let's work out all the other possible ways that his action could have failed.

We've found the one way his action could have failed.
We've found the one way Katsuki could possibly be town.
They are both extraordinarily unlikely scenarios.

This is the same exact shit I post when I'm busy mislynching people as scum to save scumbuddies.

I post this shit as scum too, but there's usually a giant glaring flaw that no one picks up on because no one's paying attention.
I also post things like this as town when the decision is as clear cut as it is.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho I swear to fuck imma cut you when I see you up in SF.

i'm gonna talk so much shit in SF

[Nachomamma8]

although this situation really isn't your fault, to be fair.
one scum usually gets fucked over by night actions per game: this time, that scum was you

[Nachomamma8]

F-16, have you found a situation where it makes sense for you to have the reads you currently have?
Or are you still looking?

[Nachomamma8]

1) You as town generally have solid suspects and a direction to go to in a game. You are fairly certain in your scumreads and find scummy things about them as opposed to mere POE which you have been doing in this game.

I have solid suspects, I have a direction to go in this game. I'm extremely sure of my scumreads in this point in time: no, it isn't mere POE that's guiding my lynches at the moment but I'm not at all interested in fleshing out possibilities of Katsuki-town because I think they're useless roads. I am always the most talkative when I am either A) unsure of what I want to do, or B) see the town going off on a horrible path. Currently, these two things aren't happening.

You push Cupcake with little conviction simply being logical and reasonable about it rather than show true passion. You show no aggression elsewhere or genuinely attempt to solve the game beyond saying that these people are town and POEing the rest. There is no real push or scumhunting into the people you think are scum.

There isn't a player who has shown significant aggression in this game day towards solving anything else, with possible exceptions in you and Tammy (because you had what you thought were incredible revelations of a strong townread being scum) and Fox (who hasn't done shit this game for years in a half and is finally, finally getting invested). DV knows what I'm saying when I tell him he needs to post more if he wants to become a strong townread: his lack of posting isn't scummy, but it leaves gaping holes in understanding his thought process when it happens whereas the strong townreads I have contain a full picture of their thoughts on the entire gamestate at any time.

Your contribution to the game has been sorely lacking even accounting for time constraints. Your most memorable part in this game has been to show up mid-D1, call Mastin town, show up at deadline and derail a wagon on Rancid driving it onto Orc. Your contribution D2 has been the Mastin push.

I let bork take the reins for most of Day 1. This was when I was in my swing of serious time restraints, decided to dedicate a majority of my time elsewhere in games. Since I've shown up mid-Day 1, I've been fully invested and I don't think anyone can argue otherwise. Even today, where there's an obvious lynch that probably should have happened 5 days ago (but we're dragging out for the benefit of you, Tammy, Fox), I've still been a major player in the game day. I defused your hilarious paranoia slap fest, and I knock down whatever fucked up conspiracy theories that people bring up for Cupcake-scum.

All I am seeing is controlled aggression, convenient and safe pushes and massive use of POE. He can't even find reasons to call Ceph and DV scum besides "everyone else is townier than you, so you could be scum."

And this is actually hilarious because I've been anything but controlled this game? You've seen my "controlled aggression" as scum from the type of view that comes very, very rarely: I haven't really let anyone in to a view of my scumgame like that with the sole exception of mastin (who got an extremely close look at my old scumgame). The differences aren't in consistency: I'm not a consistent person. I work long hours, I get drunk a lot, I act pretty fucking crazy at times. I can also put out a more detailed case on Fox and Hound tomorrow, since I'm going to be alive then and will be more willing to spend time actually sorting out the game?

[Nachomamma8]

I'm really bugged that he was pushing mastinlynch while not being on it

Current catchup is solely based on reading so I can get to work on time, but I want to address how completely fucking stupid suspicion is based on me being scum because I pushed the hell out of mastin while "not being on it". Is there a reason scum-Nacho would

not

vote mastin? So... I couldn't be linked to his town flip after he died because I would be able to say "oh I didn't mislynch him!" after he flipped? Oh wait, that makes absolutely no sense at all!

[Nachomamma8]

I thought that him saying that was a partial indication that he was scum and his team had something.

If I had surprise LyLo goodies as scum, I wouldn't hint at my surprise LyLo goodies until the game was already won.
And when the game was already won, I'd be blatantly but hilariously obvious about it.
See: Imperishable Night

[Nachomamma8]

I wouldn't say not voting Mastin was significant.

<3
still wrong, but getting closer

[Nachomamma8]

or you would say voting mastin was significant?

[Nachomamma8]

Because he's trying to distance from his buddy so that they can secure 2 mislynches w/o both of them getting lynched.

What the fuck is this reasoning?
Because people are making shitty associatives with me, I'm scum?

[Nachomamma8]

hey notscience, cut this weird shit out and call me town

[Nachomamma8]

no

tell your scumbuddies to call me town first

notscience stop fucking around like this, please

[Nachomamma8]

you sweet, innocent thing

[Nachomamma8]

and just call me town
just to feel how good it feels to say it

"Nacho is town"

you can read me properly where everyone else waffles or calls me scum for shit reasons

[Nachomamma8]

you can be my hope and my light, notscience

[Nachomamma8]

NACHO, JUST

BE

TOWN! YOU CAN DO IT. PLEASE BE TOWN.

I am town.
You're in the doghouse because you're not seeing it and that isn't my fault.

[Nachomamma8]

...nacho might actually be town.

See, doesn't that feel so much better???

[Nachomamma8]

nd I'm going to need a bit more of, I don't know, something, before I come even close to a NULL read for you.

What, exactly?

[Nachomamma8]

Do you want me to make a big wall of analysis?

[Nachomamma8]

<<<<I'm town.

[Nachomamma8]

no.

Try saying it with your heart, Tammy.

[Nachomamma8]

He knows he can't scumread me again as scum after wicked

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Nachomamma8]

hahahahahahahahaha

[Nachomamma8]

ha

[Nachomamma8]

I don't know I just know I have no intention of getting burned by you again

This is the game where you won't be burned, though.
I've been on a crazy scumgame streak against you and this is finally the first game where we're town together

[Nachomamma8]

I don't know I just know I have no intention of getting burned by you again

This is the game where you won't be burned, though.
I've been on a crazy scumgame streak against you and this is finally the first game where we're town together

Are bro and AP scum

because I really don't think they're both town

why not because they both really really really are

[Nachomamma8]

like really really really really

[Nachomamma8]

Where's the Nacho that is lynching scum left and right? I am only seeing excuses about how it is not your fault but no actual performance. Where's the fuel and the fire and the charged up passion and desire to wreck the scum into a thousand tiny pieces?

Wsa his push on Panda and mastin something other than that?

I feel like you keep talking out of both sides of your mouth saying that Nacho's sudden passion on mastin made no sense and that he simultaneously saying that he HAS NO PASSION.

Or aybe thats RG arguing one of those, I get mixed up.

I outlined this D3 when I went back and forth with Nacho. I was accusing him of bringing up the passion only when people started wondering about him and sitting back whenever it wasn't necessary. I also said his push on Mastin came at an opportunistic time - at a point when a Mastin lynch was very likely and just needed a little push in that direction to ensure that he got lynched.

i think if scum there was no need for me to be on that wagon

[Nachomamma8]

Why are they both town

I really don't like the buddy buddy between them it feels awkward

did you read bro meltdown or have you not gotten that far yet

[Nachomamma8]

what does that mean?

[Nachomamma8]

Where's the Nacho that is lynching scum left and right? I am only seeing excuses about how it is not your fault but no actual performance. Where's the fuel and the fire and the charged up passion and desire to wreck the scum into a thousand tiny pieces?

Wsa his push on Panda and mastin something other than that?

I feel like you keep talking out of both sides of your mouth saying that Nacho's sudden passion on mastin made no sense and that he simultaneously saying that he HAS NO PASSION.

Or aybe thats RG arguing one of those, I get mixed up.

I outlined this D3 when I went back and forth with Nacho. I was accusing him of bringing up the passion only when people started wondering about him and sitting back whenever it wasn't necessary. I also said his push on Mastin came at an opportunistic time - at a point when a Mastin lynch was very likely and just needed a little push in that direction to ensure that he got lynched.

i think if scum there was no need for me to be on that wagon

in fact, as i pointed out to mastin together, the wagon is the opposite of opportunistic because of how timing with that push happened
i put my towncred in the neighborhood (there was a lot) in the grinder by hard defending mastin
then, immediately after towncred is in the grinder, i HARD pushed mastin (not nudged him to death like you seem to be implying) and grinded towncred everywhere else.

all for one mislynch?

you remember wicked, where we preserved two people tunneling each other until as late as possible and let ampersand completely take the shit for it AND was able to push an additional mislynch possibility on notscience who went weird on his strong townread? why wouldn't i just do that here and let mastin die with an unbelievably strong townread on me?

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho - what's your read on Penguin Alien?

probably scum

[Nachomamma8]

i think if scum there was no need for me to be on that wagon

What would you have done then? Sit back and let the town lynch Mastin? That'd be as good as a scumclaim. Town-you would save Mastin and derail his wagon if you had a townread on him. Scum-you would have to do the same thing. Only way out is to scumread him and push him. Who wouldn't scumread you if you sat back and did nothing? That's not very Nacho-like and isn't something you can afford to do as scum. Town or scum, you have to influence the lynch in some way.

Remember when I defended him earlier and everyone still wanted to lynch the shit out of him anyways?
I remember that.

[Nachomamma8]

do you disagree?

[Nachomamma8]

because if she's doing that thing where she's not really putting stuff in thread but being incredibly town in QT, please tell her to start funneling all of her thoughts into thread

[Nachomamma8]

do you disagree?

nooooooot necessarily, it's just not what I wanted to hear.

i'm sorry!
i still don't understand though

[Nachomamma8]

How would you preserve Mastin? Would you have townread him? If you did, then you'd have to derail his lynch, right? A weak "I am reading Mastin as town" isn't going to go anywhere. You'd have to forcefully influence the outcome of the day if you don't want people to catch onto you - and that means derailing the lynch so that Mastin lives another day.

I would protect the hell out of mastin because mastin was god tier townreading me.
If she died, neighborhood gets slaps on the wrists galore, I gain cred with the neighborhood (and especially you) because you tunneled on a strong townread of mine and never let up.
If she lived... I have mastin very very very firmly in my pocket, neighborhood keeps pushing her and giving me an honest townread to protect, meaning I stay engaged, I can use that to keep you preoccupied and keep you from the position of having to reanalyze reads, push mislynches elsewhere.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho - was I faking my paranoia?

notscience - it might actually be necessary.

No.

[Nachomamma8]

Tammy we aren't lynching you.

[Nachomamma8]

No, but I think he lied about receiving a PM that confirmed it.

[Nachomamma8]

if you don't take the opportunity to eliminate Mastin, she'd be bulletproof and a constant threat. You said before that Mastin was a threat to you. In Mentor-Mentee, you pointed out how she takes a day or two to nail down a good read on you.

She nailed down the good read on me.
The good read was "town, town, town, town, town, town, town".

[Nachomamma8]

No, but I think he lied about receiving a PM that confirmed it.

He is dead and flipped town. Why are you assuming he is lying?

[Nachomamma8]

if you don't take the opportunity to eliminate Mastin, she'd be bulletproof and a constant threat. You said before that Mastin was a threat to you. In Mentor-Mentee, you pointed out how she takes a day or two to nail down a good read on you.

She nailed down the good read on me.
The good read was "town, town, town, town, town, town, town".

Remember how you wanted to kill Ampersand and I was like "hell no?". You think I don't find CES to be a threat as scum? (I do.)
I can recognize when people are stuck in their ways. Mastin was stuck in her ways.

[Nachomamma8]

No, but I think he lied about receiving a PM that confirmed it.

He is dead and flipped town. Why are you assuming he is lying?

That doesn't really answer my question.

Katsuki lies about his actions as town a lot.
If he were telling the truth, he wouldn't have played up the roleblocker possibility.

[Nachomamma8]

It was obvious that it wasn't permanent considering she went back on it to "you lying, misrepping scumbag."

When I called her scum.
This was to be expected.

[Nachomamma8]

Do you think she would have called me scum if I didn't call her scum?

[Nachomamma8]

Because the answer is very clearly, resoundingly, obviously, no.

[Nachomamma8]

What if Mastin was accusing your scumbuddies of being scum?

BRO was accusing my scumbuddies of being scum in Wicked.
Did I give a shit? No.

[Nachomamma8]

In Empire's game, the proper team was touched on a couple of times. Did I give a shit? No.

[Nachomamma8]

And you don't think Mastin would recognize that an attack from town-Nacho is town-motivated?

Not if I attacked the shit out of her, no.
It took a lot for you to realize TAMMY'S attack on you was town-motivated and there's a lot more deception, "how far would he go" type of reasoning between Mastin and I.

[Nachomamma8]

When you expect someone to be able to read you and they aren't reading you properly, you generally attack them regardless of the reason they aren't reading you properly.

[Nachomamma8]

Versus BRO?

[Nachomamma8]

For very obvious reasons.

[Nachomamma8]

Looking back, there were a few things that felt really town from Mastin on hindsight. You know Mastin better than I do - or anyone else. Why didn't you pick up on any of those things?

There were things that felt really town from Mastin.
There were also things I didn't think could possibly come from Mastin as town, and something like that overrides really town parts unless those really town parts couldn't come from mastin-scum, which wasn't the case.

[Nachomamma8]

What made you think that Katsuki had the ability to end the game?

It was a fleeting thought because he was pegging too hard on the "if I was scum I wouldn't fakeclaim until tomorrow" point.

[Nachomamma8]

Versus BRO?

No. Consideration that there was a GF in the game.

He was tracked visiting Stalin N2.

[Nachomamma8]

But any other game I've seen you, you give people that you know a really long rope when you are town and tend to give them the benefit of the doubt. I don't think you gave Mastin a chance (which I guess I didn't either), but it doesn't fit with the Nacho meta I'm aware of.

I give people long ropes when I have doubts on them, when I don't know them well enough to pull a hard meta read.
I don't give people long ropes when I'm >90% sure they're scum.

[Nachomamma8]

I never reconsidered, no.

[Nachomamma8]

I have!

[Nachomamma8]

No

[Nachomamma8]

I'm just loading up Tayoor Swift while I chill in Paranoiaville!

[Nachomamma8]

I think if there was a song that described you, it would be the song Red.

[Nachomamma8]

Also, Nacho, I've never rubbed it in your face when you've been wrong.

That's just cruel.

I'm sorry!
I didn't mean to rub it in your face, I'm just pointing out that neither of us are infallible despite being pretty great

[Nachomamma8]

Where's that reads list?

I think I probably gave a lot of reads list in this game at your behest.
I also think that congratulating me for being scum is ;[

[Nachomamma8]

It's like people saying "oh you're playing a fantastic game if you're scum" and all you can do is look at them and be angry for their backhanded compliment, since I guess that's all it is. Do you think i still deserve compliments if town?

[Nachomamma8]

It's gonna take a while to do shit since I know once I start posting in here seriously the rest of my time is going here.

[Nachomamma8]

DV it's really strange that such a sweetheart like you prefers scum

[Nachomamma8]

Goodnight Tammy!

[Nachomamma8]

So apparently that was just a rare nacho sighting and all my hopes and dreams that he'd *do something* in my fleeting awake moments were all dashed upon stony rocks, so I'll bow y head in sadness and go to sleep.

(get some sleep so you're able to properly digest my posts)

[Nachomamma8]

Goodnight Tammy!!!

[Nachomamma8]

But any other game I've seen you, you give people that you know a really long rope when you are town and tend to give them the benefit of the doubt. I don't think you gave Mastin a chance (which I guess I didn't either), but it doesn't fit with the Nacho meta I'm aware of.

I give people long ropes when I have doubts on them, when I don't know them well enough to pull a hard meta read.
I don't give people long ropes when I'm >90% sure they're scum.

How did you end up misreading town-Mastin that badly? Is there a take-away you got from it? From what I know of your play, you are occasionally fooled by players you know but almost never mislynch them when you are both town which is part of the reason everyone loves you.

Mastin as town went against a very fundamental part of her town game because she was so incredibly lost in herself, which means that the long talk we will have after the game includes revisiting basics. You are a scum hunting god means that the world doesn't revolve around you, means that the focus should be on other players: whenever either of us gets lost in ourselves, things go to shit the most.

My big takeaway and my big mistake with that lynch was shifting gears on her too quickly: I did blindside her and polarize the situation a little too quickly without actually taking into account possibilities of why she was reacting the way she did, which is again the fundamental mistake.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho: Why do you think CF is town?
What is your read on magenta_thescum?
What is the basis for your fauxhound read?

These questions are all asking me to be too specific, please try again.

[Nachomamma8]

Nachomamma8 propose a scum team for me.

Orc/PV/penguin/fox

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho - I think I'm going to call you town. This might only last ten minutes. It could last longer, but I need to feel the jazz. I just read you and borks iso before he left and there's a bunch I like, some of its a bit easy listening but there's some upbeat tempo in some parts that make me smile. I'd like to see more of that.

This was red.

[Nachomamma8]

AP, I still don't understand why you even think CF scum to be completely honest with you.

[Nachomamma8]

That seems like a fairly easy read to pick up.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho: Why do you think CF is town?
What is your read on magenta_thescum?
What is the basis for your fauxhound read?

These questions are all asking me to be too specific, please try again.

Are you even pretending to be town anymore?
You do realize that mastin's read on you is basically a cop guilty?
Why do you hate me?

And these questions are all lame.

[Nachomamma8]

Those questions were pretty great!

[Nachomamma8]

Why are you scum reading CF, though?

[Nachomamma8]

It's not helping that I don't get where his reads are coming from at all

pedit-

fine I'll sit patiently til then

This is a promise that anyone trying to end the day before I get to chat with nacho is getting lynched tomorrow

regardless of anything else they've done

You don't understand where my reads are coming from?
Really?

[Nachomamma8]

Why has PV gone completely silent today?

[Nachomamma8]

Summary anyone? Like who is confirmed town because they were protected, or confirmed scum because they were blocked from the kill?

[Nachomamma8]

If I remember correctly, he was townreading mastin but viewed mastin as the catalyst for all the potshots and etc that was making this game so depressing for everyone so he wasn't opposed to getting rid of that.

I think Titan is definately town, and I liked Stalin's reaction to my entrance. Brian thought PV town but I'm not sure.

I don't like JSU.

ok never mind you really have no idea at all what I've done this game or how I felt
I look forward to our chat!

[Nachomamma8]

I feel really awkward challenging it

Which is what makes me nervous it's a ploy

Ya. BRO sort of shuts down any conversation about his alignment before it happens and this is one of the things sort of lingering to justify doing it.

I dont think it was fake; that doesn't mean its necessarily from town though.

thisthisthisthisthisthisthis

what sucks about is day two, before anyone questioned it, voted them anything, one them came in and was if anyone thinks that was fake or votes us you're crazy...or something like that. I'd find the quote but grading and not thinking, but it twitched twitched twitched.

Also, the cognitive dissonance coming from that slot from pretty much the entire game is afuckingstounding if they're somehow town. Which, I'm sorry, I respect Bro's game just a little too much to think there's a snails chance in hell they're town at this point. (I might be exaggerating on how sure I am they're scum, but damn the mental hoops I have to do to call them town is pretty fantastic right now.)

Also, as far as the breakdown, nice little story, couple years ago I was mafia offsite and when pushed I had the motherloads of breakdowns. It was totally real (and way more believable than me saying I was crying when I actually was in Too Many Heads about something other than the game.) Only thing was I found out my grandfather died in the middle of the game. Breakdown? Totally fucking real. Didn't mean I was town.

So, yeah, I don't think it was fake, but I also don't think they're town.

In other news, I also changed my mind and think Nacho might be scum again. Oh ho ho though that's nothing new.

I really really really don't understand their read on you, to be fair. Townread on Falcon makes enough since because they've been in lockstep in the neighborhood for literally the entire game, but the only reason I remember for them calling you scum was that you brought up Too Many Heads where it didn't make sense or something stupid like that.

Re: Fakeability of the breakdown: I think BRO's breakdown was pretty game related, and not like an "real emotions venting into thread" type of breakdown, but I suppose I'll go back and read it again and point the read into something more concrete, since a good point that I've skimmed is that we've kind of lost accusing people of being scum for new reasons/actually reading the game.

[Nachomamma8]

EVERYTHING THAT THE FOX AND THE HOUND POSTED IS FAKE AS HELL.

All of it is inflammatory bullshit that is trying to serve the scum agenda. All of their comments are positioning and discrediting. It is a whole load of absolute crap.

I think this is objectively wrong, considering this is DV you're talking about.

[Nachomamma8]

Unless you're talking about something that isn't DV's last post?

[Nachomamma8]

What the real fuck

Can we all just hard reset like right fucking now

Because I'm done with everyone complaining to vote them because they're done with this game.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

VOTE: Titan

HI TAMMY

Please unvote Tammy.

[Nachomamma8]

Falcon - if you are indeed town here, be comforted by this one thing. Upon seeing a reads list I posted on day four at westeros and laughing at how much it basically said here's the people I don't trust in this order, a player pretty much familiar with me said " if Tammy's alive past day three, she doesn't trust anyone."

There are very very few people I feel really equipped to read past this point, especially when all we've done is mislynch. You can get after me about it, but it's not going to change the shadows I jump at.

I feel like this is like a post it note sober Tammy would make for drunk Tammy in the morning.

[Nachomamma8]

What the real fuck

Can we all just hard reset like right fucking now

Because I'm done with everyone complaining to vote them because they're done with this game.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

VOTE: Titan

HI TAMMY

Please unvote Tammy.

Chainsawing your buddy already?

If you're not calling me town, you're not trying hard enough.

[Nachomamma8]

I mean come on does anyone really believe even night tracker who doubles as a cop who just so happened to track ap to Stalin when katsuki claimed to block him?

I mean seriously, when there's already other investigative tropes out there?

Come on.

If they are both town, it doesn't make sense for JSU to play themselves in the lynch pool when they were solidly outside of it before.

If AP is scum, more reasonable, but it also doesn't make sense to tie scum in the best position to scum in the worst position: there has to be a scum buddy that would be much less likely to get lynched, wouldn't have to fake innocents, and would seriously call into question the insane amount of towncred JSU has.

It makes sense to me that BRO would investigate his friend who he feels is town and everyone else thinks is scum the first chance he got: I'd do the same in that position and I'm pretty sure most other people would as well.

[Nachomamma8]

Play along with me for a bit nacho

If you want to troll someone else, sure, but I actually think I have better things to do with my time than trolling a frustrated Tammy who won't get back into the game proper unless she's given her space.

[Nachomamma8]

Notty, you know I love you, but...

[Nachomamma8]

Actually I just feel like I'm on "Notscience says the Darndest things"

[Nachomamma8]

I have!

I have too!

My best one?

I made the most delicious of cases. Begged and pleaded with the town to get my lynch. Told the town that when I died because I was right they needed to heed my words. Got my lynch. He flipped town.

I spent the next three games paralyzed on lynching him when he was scum in case I was wrong. ^ that case is the beginning of my supreme waffling. I've never been the same.

But (*^&%^&$^%&^&*&*^*( Nacho.

YOU DO SOMETHING BECAUSE I DON'T TRUST YOU EITHER.

Black, dark, all alone..l

[Nachomamma8]

Scum are 4 out of these 6 players {AP, Nacho, Penguin, Magenta, FoxHound, RedGyarados}

Whichever of you are town, make it obvious please

See, the problem is I think it's obvious already.

lol Gyarados

Fox (if they are town and I think they could be) have annoyingly been scumreading everyone that suspects them which makes it a nightmare to get a proper read.

So I think this is a pretty poor excuse to not get a read on us (especially considering 6860). It's also actually pretty unfair considering that Stalin suspects me and while I think I quite reasonably (you haven't given any good argument otherwise) pressured them on that earlier, my last reads list had them as town. And the third thing is that you've actually been behaving similarly this game. The times that you've come closer to scumreading us have been the times that I've been less sure of my read on you and pressured you accordingly. I don't actually think it has occurred anywhere else. The same thing happened with Tammy earlier, and you are similarly more responsive to those townreading you (e.g. JSU) than those not. So I don't think this quote actually applies to us any more than it applies to you, and so I wonder why you'd make a point of complaining about it if it's actually similar to your own play (and I'd actually wonder in any case because I don't think it makes any sense.)

Titan, I think JSU is town. I'll explain it in full when I get time. This weekend at the very latest. Tonight if I'm feeling keen after my CF ISO/possibly other things.

I'm not going to respond to any posts in response to this one until I finish doing my CF ISO thing, so feel free to respond, but it may take me a while to get there.

Oh wow all the PEdit.

Ok, maybe I will post some more.

Nacho. You're here. Stop avoiding me. If you're town show me. Please.

I'm here. I'm still town.
What happened to you reading through every player and giving in depth reads on them? It still feels like you're floating through the game without the usual DV fire: I appreciate the piece of honesty with mask talk, but I'm still not seeing the DV that I've been looking for.

I also don't think telling me to be town does anything of note or has done anything of note for anyone: as scum, I'll drop a fake town tell every couple of posts but I really don't town on command for anyone except for Tammy and even then I make her wait for it and make the impressive big and dramatic

[Nachomamma8]

I understand the sentiment, though. I honestly can't say what I want out of your slot in order for it to be more town. I might just have to read you closer, and I might have had an easier time agreeing with you in other games because you were my rock early, or you might just be scum!

[Nachomamma8]

Tammy, do you realize why I am so frustrated with this game?

Because I'm not blindly believing desbro is town when they refuse to act like it?

This sort of bullshit is why I'm pseudo-retiring from mafia.

I don't "refuse to act like town." We have a town role pm. We've been town all fucking game.

Your model being broken and you refusing to acknowledge it is the problem here.

It was the problem in Wicked.

It's been the problem every time I've gotten mislynched, which happens way too fucking often given the caliber of player I am (or rather, other's perception of the caliber of player I am)

Saying you have a horrible read and that you're too good of a player to hold it isn't a broken model and refusing to fix it. Every time I'm reminded you hold this read separately, I wonder what got crossed in your wiring because Tammy is seriously the easiest person on this site to read as town when town and you're not a Thor-esque player that would miss something so obvious in thread such as that.

[Nachomamma8]

On a general note, staying engaged, posting, creating an ISO that's 4 pages long and engaged for the entire journey is a pretty difficult task for scum to accomplish, especially when you're not comfortable as scum. There are a number of tactics that F-16 has used this game that I additionally don't think he'd be comfortable using as scum but make sense with his current view of the gamestate:

-Attempting to strong arm ffery and I as confirmed scum.
-Creating a read progression on me as in depth and through as the one on me is.
-Faking an emotional breakdown.
-Attacking Tammy for not town reading him.
-Telling us to lynch him the day before LyLo.
-Throwing dead players at everyone.

All of these are moves that need to come from a cheeky scumfuck: getting to the point of cheeky scumfuck is something that takes a lot of time and involves a lot of growth.

[Nachomamma8]

A really long read.

[Nachomamma8]

AP, I don't think that arrogance, being sure that the miller claim was a false point. It makes sense you might be informed of a watcher because watchers are very strong and can fuck over unsuspecting scum pretty easily, but a miller? Not really a threat to scum, doesn't really give any specific benefit to scum.

Timing... I can think about timing because I agree that it's weird, but I think it's weird as town or scum. I find Falcon doing crazy things as scum is very... Impulsive? And this kind of move would fly in the face of that. I don't think that posting in the neighborhood before hand offers him a significant advantage if any as scum, so that doesn't help much. And waiting to counterclaim as scum? Only reason I could see that is because he didn't think if it until late, but that seems like extraordinarily weak reasoning to me.

[Nachomamma8]

we had a pledge in our fraternity who sang the happy birthday mr president song

[Nachomamma8]

I think Fox's push on CF is probably scummy.

[Nachomamma8]

This is blatantly Nacho's scumgame. Nacho as town doesn't sit around doing nothing for the entire day and try to opportunistically push deadline lynches when the clock starts running out.

This would be true if this was actually what was happening, but it isn't.

[Nachomamma8]

Nope!

[Nachomamma8]

Nope!

[Nachomamma8]

AP, I don't think that arrogance, being sure that the miller claim was a false point. It makes sense you might be informed of a watcher because watchers are very strong and can fuck over unsuspecting scum pretty easily, but a miller? Not really a threat to scum, doesn't really give any specific benefit to scum.

Timing... I can think about timing because I agree that it's weird, but I think it's weird as town or scum. I find Falcon doing crazy things as scum is very... Impulsive? And this kind of move would fly in the face of that. I don't think that posting in the neighborhood before hand offers him a significant advantage if any as scum, so that doesn't help much. And waiting to counterclaim as scum? Only reason I could see that is because he didn't think if it until late, but that seems like extraordinarily weak reasoning to me.

Timing: Waiting the entire day to counterclaim Rancid miller claim is more strange for Carbon-scum than it is for Carbon-town. If I remember the game state correctly, momentum had begun to swing towards Rancid lynch already, thus adding actual reasons for Carbon to get heat after the Rancid flip when there was no way in hell he would be dinged for it if he was simply wrong seems like an extraordinarily strange move: it does explain why he was pushing Rancid so hard earlier, but that's minimal benefit considering that's a stupid reason to find him scum and that's something he wasn't really getting heat for earlier in the game.

[Nachomamma8]

prod

dodge

it's so simple, you do't have to look like you're contributing!

oh sorry, i accidentally contributed already


i'll try to be more useless so you can blame your misread on me being lazy postgame

[Nachomamma8]

i am still waiting to hear who PV targeted, by the way!

[Nachomamma8]

Did he really not care that actually the entire player base was saying that millers are not something you CC?

I don't remember the entire player base saying that.
I would have CC'd the miller claim if I thought it was serious.

I refuse to believe that he didnt take a single step back from that push to wonder if there could be.

Considering how many players have walked into the deepest darkness of tunnelville and never looked back, I think this is a stupid thing to refuse to believe. Try harder!

[Nachomamma8]

fuck, i misspelled "prod dodge" again.
this really is harder than it looks, i'm fucking my words up like tammy when she's blackout

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho/titan/beli/sheep

[Nachomamma8]

okay, to be fair that post didn't have much content
does that serve as prod dodging and being honest about it, tamm tamm?

[Nachomamma8]

Sci, I have reached out to tammy! And I think ffery and maybe nacho?

I have spent the majority of this game curled up in a ball trying to get a handle on the best way to effectivly use our pr, alone. never mind having tried to get caught up with the game

you feel like a cold corpse who maybe white knighted me a couple of times
i think you can do better than this!

[Nachomamma8]

Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

Please be town, please help.

S O S

the fits and starts thing is something i have to do everywhere or else i only am able to manage one post a day
you've seen this happen in pretty much every single recent game we've played together ever and would know it even better if you hydra'd with me, but i'm not good enough for you sooo

[Nachomamma8]

..................................................................................

Everyone, look at this very carefully and tell me what you see. Concentrate on it for 5 minutes.

What do you see?

Also you know what's super special about him refusing to answer questions about his claimed role? Yesterday's interrogations concerning other people's claimed/unclaimed roles.

+1
you say such sweet words when you're not reading me incorrectly

[Nachomamma8]

That's your response to the mother loads of reach outs I give on day fucking four of a game?

yup that's basically all i'm going to say for the entire game
i tried to copy and paste the playerlist for funsies, but messed up somehow
sorry for confusion

[Nachomamma8]

i have no idea how you can accuse me of doing nothing when i'm doing things right in front of you

[Nachomamma8]

like, in real time

[Nachomamma8]

it's like you've been invited to the backstage for How Things Are Made and we're building a car and all you can do is sit there with a vacant look in your eyes asking when we're going to start building a car

[Nachomamma8]

AP is allergic to answering questions.

Luckily, PV has answered every question directed towards him!
He's a bastion of openness.

[Nachomamma8]

Tammy

Does a

nacho

Whenever you're going to write my name and call me scum or suggest the possibility of me being scum, I want you to take a deep breath, meditate for five minutes. When you breathe in, I want you to envision me taking in all the bad things in the world, soaking up information like a sponge. I want you to see my brain processing every post, every word put in front of me, I want you to envision my townie aura shining bright: so bright that it would blind you if this weren't a mind exercise and you looked at it directly.

When you breathe out, "Nacho is town - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8".
"Nacho is town - 5 - 6 - 7 -8".

Repeat this for at least 10 full inhale/exhale cycles, then post. Repeat as needed.

[Nachomamma8]

you're infuriating also, you accused me of what? wait? not being good enough to hydra with but I've asked you twice and i'm like whats that chick who asks dude's to the ball wallflower rejected over here

you're like the girl who asks the guy out when he's not single but then he breaks up with his girlfriend because he knows she's the true one for him and she's like "nah, not feeling it anymore sorry"

[Nachomamma8]

Is it just me, or does anybody else think both Tammy and Nacho usually swear more than this as town?

/shit disturber

maybe i'm turning over a new, cleaner leaf?
kids do play this game you know

[Nachomamma8]

I dislike him getting uppity over lack of townreads on him.

Why, exactly? It's completely unreasonable but it's completely notscience.

[Nachomamma8]

It's in your first 250 posts.

what the fuck have you been doing this day
what the fuck does this even mean

[Nachomamma8]

Is it just me, or does anybody else think both Tammy and Nacho usually swear more than this as town?

/shit disturber

i swear less when i'm as hungover as I've been today.

this is true!
i have no idea why.

[Nachomamma8]

you're infuriating also, you accused me of what? wait? not being good enough to hydra with but I've asked you twice and i'm like whats that chick who asks dude's to the ball wallflower rejected over here

you're like the girl who asks the guy out when he's not single but then he breaks up with his girlfriend because he knows she's the true one for him and she's like "nah, not feeling it anymore sorry"

I would say then don't blame me but OMIGODS did I not reach out to you in my first fucking post.

(swear word placed carefully for belisaurus!)

towning me was red

[Nachomamma8]

Like in this video: http://video.nationalgeographic.com/vid ... aining-lex

if killer whales were humans, they'd be assholes
as whales they're still assholes but have an excuse

[Nachomamma8]

I don't get why you'd vote yourself though besides wanting everyone to think that you are frustrated town?

Falcon.

[Nachomamma8]

Whenever I use your name as a sentence, it's a slap on the wrist.

[Nachomamma8]

Also, should we dunk Penguin in the water like a pair of killer whales? We'll leave Tammy in Seaworld obviously while we go about it.

You and Tammy can't go to Seaworld if you're still stuck in the doghouse, you know.

[Nachomamma8]

Whenever I use your name as a sentence, it's a slap on the wrist.

It felt like you were implying I voted myself.

I meant to imply that I was a nun and you were talking like Beli in Catholic school. Apologies for the confusion.

[Nachomamma8]

Just Sheep Us, if the scumteam is Nacho/Fox/AP/Penguin, if we lynch Magenta today, we're screwed.

Think about what's optimal for town right now.

Falcon.

[Nachomamma8]

a) There is absolutely no way in hell town-F-16 was reaction testing obvtown-Titan for that long.

He didn't reaction test Titan, though?

b) I completely believe that he's scum who wants town-Tammy dead via lynch today and no later.

Why?

[Nachomamma8]

I didn't vote myself though.

I meant to say that you derped, not voted yourself.

[Nachomamma8]

I would probably dunk penguin for #7314.

[Nachomamma8]

Hey, Falcon:

bring me a team that doesn't include me/AP

[Nachomamma8]

CHIDDY BANG

[Nachomamma8]

What was strange about my earlier scumteam supposition aka what did you see?

[Nachomamma8]

Hey, Falcon:

bring me a team that doesn't include me/AP

why are you asking someone you share a neighborhood with and thus have probably

already had this conversation with

why aren't you taking the opportunity to interact with someone you aren't interacting with behind closed doors?

I didn't have that conversation with him, no.

[Nachomamma8]

wait wait wait

[Nachomamma8]

tammy are you trying to imply that i'm not currently interacting with you

[Nachomamma8]

because if so please post the phrase "nacho you're not interacting with me" and then read the last few posts i've made in this thread

[Nachomamma8]

orrrrrrrr

[Nachomamma8]

or, and this is a really crazy thought, i think Falcon and I working through scumteam together would be beneficial for more people than just JSU and us

[Nachomamma8]

but i probably need to put a straight jacket and get myself committed because that idea is crazier than Crazy Mike who's deals are so good he's probably gonna get FIRED

[Nachomamma8]

ARE YOU AKSING ME FOR MY READS?

last time i checked your reads were:

strong scum: falcon, nacho, peregrinev, jsu
town: stalin, notscience
scum: EVERYONE ELSE

please tell me if these reads have changed

[Nachomamma8]

or if i'm not reading or caring about your posts

[Nachomamma8]

or also not interacting with you

[Nachomamma8]

also you and falcon should hydra for my mini theme and pre-in now
me and falcon hydra'ed for yours!

[Nachomamma8]

Town: Tammy
Scum: Everyone else (talk to me on a minute by minute basis who I think strongly belongs here, it changes a lot)

"why aren't you interacting with me? ask me who my reads are?"
*nacho makes an effort to interact*
"EVERYONE IS SCUM"

[Nachomamma8]

hey tammy i think you're just mad i'm actually listening to you!

[Nachomamma8]

i established that scum list because i feel those are suspects you have had more consistently than others
i used strong scum to distinguish them from general scum vibes everywhere else

[Nachomamma8]

you're just trying to be annoying to me.

(maybe just a little)

[Nachomamma8]

except for when you are scum and you try to work with me!

this means i'm either
A) town
B) listening to you

win-win for me

[Nachomamma8]

i also always listen to you
you just always think i'm ignoring you

[Nachomamma8]

it's pretty clearly established by the never hydraing with me again thing that you think i'm a horrible person when i'm actually not

[Nachomamma8]

hydra with me now

[Nachomamma8]

more game relevant-y, where did i go in interpreting your reads?
set me straight, dear tammy

[Nachomamma8]

what?

[Nachomamma8]

you don't need me to set you straight because you are probably scum and if you had been reading and you have because you posted muy shit for reads list, you'd know that setting anyone straight in this game isn't going to happen for me and ohmigods you would know that if you were paying attention because i reach out to you like hell and said I'm fucking lost here.

So, what?

You originally were mad at me for not interacting with you and instead interacting with CF, which I countered by saying that I am interacting with you in our usual way. You asked me why I didn't ask you for reads: I didn't ask you for reads because I've been reading your posts and I am fully aware of your reads. I don't think that asking you to knock out a majority of your scumreads (3 of them) helps us process the game in any way because I know you are looking at other possibilities, processing other possibilities constantly so I don't think asking you to reconsider will bring any revelations. In CF's case, it might.

[Nachomamma8]

My priority is posting in thread before posting in neighborhood.

[Nachomamma8]

The only time that I would post something in neighborhood instead of in thread the majority of the time is if it's a personal discussion, if we're mutually townreading each other and i'm treating him like a hydra partner, or if it's something like a pep talk.

[Nachomamma8]

i played the neighborhood in vesperia pretty aggressively at the beginning of the game, which is not my usual treatment of neighborhoods

[Nachomamma8]

i mostly don't get why i can't talk with falcon in thread about reads

[Nachomamma8]

especially since i talk to you about the game in thread when we hydra together all of the time

[Nachomamma8]

Then don't shut up, explain yourself in a different way.

[Nachomamma8]

I need to be cut a little slack when I'm hungover as shit because occasionally i'm an idiot when i'm hungover

[Nachomamma8]

I kinda feel like I'm falling into the trap of people who can recognize I'm town and are defending me are town and I like them. People who are trolling me and attacking me for the most mind numbingly stupidest shit ever are scum and I don't like them.

I think the bigger problem is you're focusing on people who are attacking/defending you loudly and not focusing on the people who aren't talking about you as much.

[Nachomamma8]

I think the attack on you is the worst thing to come out of the JSU slot. I think this is probably more due to dumb reads than it is to them being scum.
I think that CF's paranoia on you is something that you railed much too hard against, but I do think he deserved a slap in the face for going into the paranoiaville that's reserved for you and Wisdom alone.
I think Peregrine's read on you sucks balls, although that's not the worst thing to come out of the slot.

So I don't really think you're being ridiculous in any of your OMGUSing so far.