We Didn't Playtest This | Game over, everyone loses

[Titus]

Can we counterwagon Lihn and Drixx? I want to see what happens.

[Titus]

What about it?

- First post, don't like the BP claim, I understand him and was not a big fan either.

- Second post, AD says Drixx is BP, read changes as expected to more likely town.

- Thrid post, AD retracts part of his statement, we are looking for a deadline lynch (would have been better than lynching tracker in retrospect) so he votes, understandable.

- Drixx tells us about silver lining and he unvotes and says he likely believes him, why would he say this as scum????

This post has too many pronouns to follow.

[Titus]

@BBmolla
The claim from Oranje was bad play, I have yet to see a post that explains why it was scummy, Wgeurts spent most of yesterday asking us to massclaim, so I can well see him doing so in order to start the process as either alignment, cause he either planned to role fish from the get go and mask it behind bad play or he genuinly thought it was a good idea, I think it's more likely to be case 2.

Claiming a role that does not likely exist is more likely than not scum.

[Titus]

What about it?

- First post, Lihin doesn't like the BP claim, I understand him and was not a big fan either.

- Second post, Action Dan says Drixx is BP, Lihin's read changes as expected to Drixx being more likely town.

- Thrid post, ACtion Dan retracts part of his statement, we are looking for a deadline lynch (would have been better than lynching tracker in retrospect) so Lihin votes Drixx, understandable.

- Drixx tells us about silver lining and Lihin unvotes and says he likely believes Drixx, why would Lihin say this as scum????

This sounds like Lihin Drixx buddies to me.

1. Suspect BP from AD is false. Why? Because they cannot kill itand they have a BP.
2. Lihin suddenly buys BPs when suspecting them means suspecting Drixx.
3. Deadline forced bus.
4. Lihin unvotes looking to save buddy at deadline.

[Titus]

@Bulb, I believe there is no doc. That is a one night solution.

I have seen copper drixx tossed as a possibility. Until we have more flips, saying for certain is bad. I meant those as separate poimt. It would provide VCA help and evidence on cooper Drixx theory. Of note, cooper made sure it was Jackal or PV lynched.

We missed a chance to test Lihin by asking if her role was usable at lylo.

I will presume Voided wrote that post but I am not as familiar with that play.

[Titus]

After this game is over, you'll have to explain to me how using the opposite of sound logic works for you Titus.

Well if I ever become convinced I am insane, I will respond. I have been working on avoiding being baited.

[Titus]

Ika full claim, you too ozgin
ACTUALLY HOW ABOUT WE ALL CLAIM

No. Trust me, Oranje.

I am trying to tell you that you are wrong

shld I bust out with the bolded capitalized huge font cos I am trying to get away from that

Your lies are cute.

I'm a

Town Private Investigator

- Every night I can pick a person to "profile," and I learn the full name of their faction and their alignment.
I have a modifier that gives me bulletproof overnight when the person who I "profile" is killed

During the day.

If they live until night, my profile closes on them.

Ika is a

Berlin Undercity Mafia

member.

*he pulls out a sword and points it towards a player*

VOTE: Narninian

"THIS IS WHAT WE BE MAKING WALK THE PLANK TODAY JOIN ME MATEYS"

Are you a fucking jester, or what?

I have pretty much unleashed the ika on every1 cos I think you all are terribad at mafia consider this I can only hold ika back for so long and he was chafing in hilarious.

like magua and titus are itching for peeps to ignore us while studiously ignoring wagons started less than 24 hours ago.

like really.

Nope. I don't see an ika vote after the guilty claim.

[Titus]

Post 2210 seems off in context...

Who was wagoned then?

[Titus]

Titus, if we go make one copper or toon I'm happy.

If you want to wagon toon, you'll have to go through me first.


-kuribo

Missed this.

Not a fan of either wagon atm. I only see cooper scum if Drixx is also scum.

[Titus]

I guess he's confirmed whatever he claimed.

We should force a claim from lihin.

Barring a serial killer, Brantz is town.

Because scum can't have a day-commute?

Multiple removals of self from the game is broken as fuck for scum.

[Titus]

@Lucian, should I become Double Trouble with my sister and make two siblings in a single slot? Remind me who the masons and neighbors are please.

@Narnian, Was ika whiteknighting the end wagons or do you think he had a buddy there?

@OC, Except there I called you scum and tunnelled without allowing for explanation. (I will suppose Sabo's the game I claimed friendly neighbor.).

[Titus]

I guess he's confirmed whatever he claimed.

We should force a claim from lihin.

Barring a serial killer, Brantz is town.

Because scum can't have a day-commute?

Multiple removals of self from the game is broken as fuck for scum.

As long as it's not infinite-shot it's fine.

Really, Ozgin claims guilty with seven alive. Who cares, Brantz won.

[Titus]

Ok now I have some times for these larges.

First off, can we sort out these vote discrepancies that Drixx claims exist? I'd like everyone to briefly vote themselves so we can check that all is in as should be in the next votecount.

No. There are no discrepancies. Drixx is rolefishing and attempting to dismantle wagons. The number of votes to lynch has always matched the number of players in the game.

Plus it serves as a method to dismantle the wagons.

If this was genuine, Drixx would have pushed at the start of the day.

[Titus]

Drixx isn't her partner, unless she hard bussed all day.

mollie hates bussing, which would make the odds of her bussing in multiball nearly 0.

Mollie is not the sole head in that hydra.

[Titus]

@Cooper, Did Pika ever flip doublevoter? 3056 looks off in that respect. Your question did remind me of that. Pika flipped modified roleblocker but not doublevoter.

[Titus]

@Titus
I think Drixx mentioned that PIka was a doublevoter and Bulbasaur picked it up, in Ivy's ongoing effort to buddy up with Drixx as hard as possible, from what I have seen there is no indication of that as the pirates vote on Ozgin was a single vote, Drixx later corrected himself.

So ifno one currently claims a double vote, why are we bothering? This is a distraction which is very anti-town. It also fucks up going wagons.

As someone who relies heavily on wagon analysis, this annoys me.

[Titus]

Vote Count 2.04

Lihin (7)

- Oranje Crush, LucianRoy, Cerberus v666, Drixx, Om of the Nom, Boonskiies, deathfisaro

Oranje Crush (3)

- Toon Fighter, BBmolla, Narninian

Bulbasaur Commonwealth (1)

- VysePresident

Cerberus v666 (1)

- Magua

Not Voting (11)

: ActionDan, ChriVi, PeregrineV, vonflare, Titus, Lihin, copper223, Ozgin, Three-Pronged Trouser God, Bulbasaur Commonwealth

With 23 votes in play, it takes 13 to lynch.

Deadline falls in (expired on 2015-04-02 10:05:14).

Lihin has been prodded.

Removal of players during the day phase will not reduce the lynch threshold.

This is the post before Drixx started babbling nonsense about doublevoters and asking people to selfvote.

Look who is voted.

Lihin.

Lihin + Drixx.

They are buddies.

[Titus]

Spoiler: Vote Counts

Vote Count 2.01

Oranje Crush (2)

- Narninian, Toon Fighter

LucianRoy (2)

- Om of the Nom, Drixx

Titus (1)

- Three-Pronged Trouser God

copper223 (1)

- Bulbasaur Commonwealth

Pirate Ika (1)

- Ozgin

Ozgin (1)

- deathfisaro

Bulbasaur Commonwealth (1)

- VysePresident

Not Voting (16)

: Pirate Ika, Oranje Crush, ActionDan, ChriVi, Boonskiies, PeregrineV, vonflare, Cerberus v666, BRantz, LucianRoy, Magua, Titus, Lihin, BBmolla, copper223

With 25 votes in play, it takes 13 to lynch.

Deadline falls in (expired on 2015-04-02 10:05:14).

@mod: is there a reason we can't have full flips?

Yes, giving full flips would be a significant balance shift that we did not plan for.

I've amended rule I to include the clause in parentheses:

I. This game will use no factions other than what is considered normal (town, mafia, werewolf and serial killer).

Vote Count 2.02

Pirate Ika (4)

- Narninian, Ozgin, Three-Pronged Trouser God, Oranje Crush

LucianRoy (2)

- Om of the Nom, Drixx

Oranje Crush (1)

- Toon Fighter

copper223 (1)

- Bulbasaur Commonwealth

Ozgin (1)

- Pirate Ika

Bulbasaur Commonwealth (1)

- VysePresident

Cerberus v666 (1)

- Magua

Not Voting (14)

: ActionDan, ChriVi, Boonskiies, PeregrineV, vonflare, Cerberus v666, BRantz, LucianRoy, Titus, Lihin, BBmolla, copper223, deathfisaro

With 25 votes in play, it takes 13 to lynch.

Deadline falls in (expired on 2015-04-02 10:05:14).

Pirate Ika

-

Berlin Undercity Mafia Modified Roleblocker

- Shot through the heart day two.

----------

Vote Count 2.03

LucianRoy (3)

- Om of the Nom, Drixx, Cerberus v666

Oranje Crush (1)

- Toon Fighter

Bulbasaur Commonwealth (1)

- VysePresident

Cerberus v666 (1)

- Magua

Not Voting (18)

: ActionDan, ChriVi, Boonskiies, PeregrineV, vonflare, BRantz, LucianRoy, Titus, Lihin, BBmolla, copper223, deathfisaro, Narninian, Ozgin, Three-Pronged Trouser God, Oranje Crush, Bulbasaur Commonwealth

With 24 votes in play, it takes 13 to lynch.

Deadline falls in (expired on 2015-04-02 10:05:14).

Vote Count 2.04

Lihin (7)

- Oranje Crush, LucianRoy, Cerberus v666, Drixx, Om of the Nom, Boonskiies, deathfisaro

Oranje Crush (3)

- Toon Fighter, BBmolla, Narninian

Bulbasaur Commonwealth (1)

- VysePresident

Cerberus v666 (1)

- Magua

Not Voting (11)

: ActionDan, ChriVi, PeregrineV, vonflare, Titus, Lihin, copper223, Ozgin, Three-Pronged Trouser God, Bulbasaur Commonwealth

With 23 votes in play, it takes 13 to lynch.

Deadline falls in (expired on 2015-04-02 10:05:14).

Lihin has been prodded.

Removal of players during the day phase will not reduce the lynch threshold.

Based on the VCs, there's zero foundation for any double voters, much less multiples. Pika votes Ozgin and its one vote.

[Titus]

Let's suppose arguendo that there are mysery voters in play, why fish for it? If he actually thought there was a possibility I had destumped, he wouldn't refer to multiple double voters. It would be me, one single double voter. Then, why would he fish to determine if I was no longer a tree stump? What good would come of that? He also claimed Pika flipped double voter. Pika flipped no such thing. Too much knowledge?

The timing is also suspicious as it he suggested for everyone to vote to derail a Lihin wagon.

The only people who benefit from this line of inquiry are scum. It's best to drop it.

[Titus]

Do you think Lihin and Drixx could be buddies?

[Titus]

I'm not as leery. They said a 33 percent chance to recall on any given night. The longer they don't remember an ability, the less likely it is they ever will. Sure N1 has roughly a 66 percent chance of not remembering. Not recalling on two nights is roughly 44% likely. Night 3 is roughly thirty percent. Not remembering for five nights is about 20% likely. So if Lihin has no ability by Day 5, it should be fake. They should not be alive that long though.

On the other hand, if scum kill an unknown role, they lose all information as to what it could be. So they really want as many claims out in the open as possible.

[Titus]

Shit.. got my claims backwards. Linihe claimed Obvious scum role.

@Drixx, It's not a lie to note the number of votes needed to lynch is dependent on the number of players in the game, which the mod noted.

Really, what protown comes from outing doublevoters?

Yes why would I "lie" about something confitmable? Maybe I don't want more claims.

You do because you are scum.

[Titus]

You are asking to put the double voter which IS asking for a claim.

You are outright lying by saying this is not a rolefish of me.

Outing Doublevoters just makes them a target for scum.

You are using a lot of words to justify but you are rolefishing me and anyone who has not voted.

[Titus]

There also is no discrepancy if the mod made a typo.

You are pushing something VERY antitown.

[Titus]

You have ONE last chance to back off this hunt the double voter nonsense before I tunnell you ass into oblivion.

[Titus]

VOTE: Drixx

I fucking warned you.

I was never a fucking treestump. I knew scum would be pissed at an unkillable player. If you had kept your fucking mouth shut town could have won any and all ties since scum would not shoot someone unfucking killable. Any scum faction would need two scum alive with me to have won. But now, you blew it and I will be in the graveyard soon enough. I also could have "unstumped" at will if BBMolla lied about nightskipping, hence why I wanted him alive. If we did not get an extra day, I would just double vote his ass. Literally, scum could not have won if you had not pushed that shit.

I structured my claim to draw scum suspicion to me. After all, what scum wants to deal with an unkillable townie who actually can fucking vote them at critical junctures? None. Scum come after me at that point.

TPTG opened with a vote on me I largely ignored because he never questioned my being a treestump. So his posts were not an abject failure.

You on the other hand walked into shit. Mounds of shit.

Time for you to fucking die.

[Titus]

My actual claim is Town Bureaucrat. On all odd numbeted days, I cannot vote. On all even numbered days, my vote counts double. I can change this once with a night action.

[Titus]

@Drixx, all my planning for a town victory is out the fucking window. At least I can get your fucking head though.

Oh and that's total bullshit.

Yes, confirm there's funny double voters and I will stop fishing for said double voters. That's a load of horse shit stinkier than 1000000 million diapers in a landfill.

[Titus]

Anyone not knowing about votes is objectively bastard.

[Titus]

@Titut
Yeah fuck, but that doesn't make Drixx scum, just mule headed.

That alone MIGHT not.

Combine that with his "sudden" realization of the double votes immediately after the mods VCs. His obsession for most of the day confirming me as treestump, his refusal to realize that I was telling him I was lying for a reason, his outright falsehoods, such as Pika being a double voter and the matching amger consistent with being in a boned game as long as I am alive. Yes he is scum. I will eat my hat if he is not.

[Titus]

@Drixx, all my planning for a town victory is out the fucking window. At least I can get your fucking head though.

Oh and that's total bullshit.

Yes, confirm there's funny double voters and I will stop fishing for said double voters. That's a load of horse shit stinkier than 1000000 million diapers in a landfill.

Your "planning" is out the window because you picked a stupid fight and you were too proud to take the outs available to you. You drove this car into the river. Why on earth didn't you just take the easy outs I offered you? A simple post like "You're right, Drixx, I didn't realize that the vote number was more than the active players" combined with something like "I haven't seen roles like that myself before, but that totally makes sense" and the whole situation diffuses.

I can't do more than give you outs to take. You actually have to take them.

Stop trying to paint yourself as an Angel.

Once you perceived me as lying, nothing less than a claim or a vote would have sufficied.

Second, even if I claimed yes there's a double voter, there's not a chance in hell you would have stopped looking. There was no out.

There was only ignoring you.
Then there was warning you.
Then there was an out to abandon this because it was antitown.

Each time you said no because I "lied" without ever considering why I did.

You were the one with the outs. You failed to take them. Now you will die. You will flip scum.

Lihin will flip next. Lihin will flip scum.

[Titus]

Anyone not knowing about votes is objectively bastard.

Bastard games involve hidden mechanics and hidden win conditions. If a town mayor can give someone an extra vote or a scum politician can give someone an extra vote ... there's a solvable reason for those extra votes to exist. That's not bastard, and I've seen them a bunch of times over the years.

What I don't understand is why you picked a fight with me in the first place. You didn't need to do it. You certainly didn't need to keep escalating it. You REALLY didn't need to keep going after I freaking handed you ways out of the fight on a silver platter. And you REALLY REALLY didn't need to make the spite post and then direct a bunch of venom at me because you got worked up and didn't get up and calm down and then come back and take the easy outs.

And for the record, for future reference, I don't rolefish ever. It's not helpful for town to help scum find PRs, and as scum I want to find the PRs I need to kill by observing their posts and via PoE and I don't want anything in the thread that would let anyone know I realized. No matter alignment, there's no real upside to the sort of blatant rolefishing some people do.

This is outright laughable.

In what world is, "Gee Titus did you unstump? Who are the doublevoters? We need to find them," not rolefishing. It's ridiculously rolefishing.

[Titus]

Just because you say I picked a fight with you does not make it true.

You rolefished me after I warned you to stop. Repeatedly. I have also said you were scum most of the day.

Also hi kuribo, your murder boner needs to activate on Drixx. Ty.

[Titus]

Oh and to 3132 for anyone caring to notice Drixx says "my wincon". That's another reason he needs to die.

[Titus]

This tunnel will be a Titus tunnel the likes of which have never been seen on mafiascum, sc2mafia, darklordpotter, USMB, Magoc the Gathering forums, or anywhere else I have played mafia.

You cost the town an auto win. Unless you have a hidden IC, I will make it my mission to fucking murder you and have your petal wings drape across the floor.

[Titus]

Then I will trample all but one. The last will be a feather in my cap. Literally.

[Titus]

Then I will trample all but one. The last will be a feather in my cap. Literally.

If you insist on making terrible and illogical play, and you will actually be proud of yourself for it ... then whatever is wrong with you is no small thing.

There is nothing illogical about lynching a rolefisher who lies about rolefishing, who was largely suspected D1, who claimed bp (which makes him unlikely to be night killed), who started rolefishing me after Lihin (the hated role) had a VC that made them the default lynch, who has pushed shit cases on other slots and just generally has been an all around scum fuck.

If you are town maybe you will take this as DO NOT ever rolefish Titus when she tells you not to or stop being a general asshole.

You also have been baiting me by calling me illogical most of the day. I did notice.

Do not EVER poke the bear if you cannot handle me.

[Titus]

Actually drawing attention to the vote count was a poor move because it was not too hard to guess who had the double vote once you realize that there's a double voter.
If someone noticed before you, and no discussion came out of it, probably have been good to just let it slide.
If that person made a scene about the vote numbers not matching, it'd be his problem. But you made it your own.

Usually, yes. But I cannot be a town doublevoter immune from all fucking night kills. That's so fucking broken that even a six year old would know it's brolen.

How do scum win? By killing the townies or lynching them? What do you do about an unkillable townie that can out vote you? Nothing. That cannot exist.

So as long as I was hidden, town auto fucking wins. If I was outed and it was obvious like you said; there's no way the treestump illusion would have held.

My BBMolla plan depended on me being available at mylo to secure said extra lynch.
My tiebreaker depended on me being there at a 1 v 1 scenario.

That cannot happen.

Why can that not happen? Scum rolefishing.

[Titus]

Titus: Why would scum drixx go to all this effort of pointing out the vote issues and isolating you as the person who had a double vote, when he could have instead just told his teammates about it and they could have either planned accordingly, or just killed you? You guys seem to like to describe behavior as anti-town. I think it's pretty damn anti-town to tunnel on someone who doesn't have any scum reason for their behavior.

The scum reason for the rolefishing is obvious. Force me to destump so they can kill me. As long as I was alive, scum needed two scum alive to beat me if my treestump lie was in tact. Scum needed a way to kill me.

If I refused to vote, Drixx would be rolefishing and wagoning my ass because of the mysterious double voter.

Scum had to come after me.

[Titus]

I have been reviewing the Pirate Ika posts, which is the only real indicator we have and what most of our efforts should focus on, and based on the reads they give I think it's actually less likely that the commonwealth is scum, at least Pirate Ika believes them to be town I think.

I also think Titus is not part of the underground Berlin mafia.

In general I tend to buy this setup:

- 2 scumteams with 1 volcano mafia who incinerates players and 1 underground berlin mafia that eviscerates players.

I think it's a bit of a stretch that Drixx claimed silver lining which has to do with werewolves and we then find out that the berlin underground actually eviscerate their victims, so to me either he is BP in the werewolves games or he is part of that team.

It's hard to exclude the second based on Pirate Ika's ISO because their Drixx read is wonky, first they don't think he is scum, then they join and seem gang ho (only to post the opposite in the wrong place), then they ask for the hammer, but in general the fact the pirates wanted to lynch Drixx speaks against them being teammates.

A flip flopping read vascillating between extremes is indicative of scum buddies.

But hey, what do I know, I am just the townie who set a trap for scum they fell into?

You may not like my style but Drixx is scum.

[Titus]

Titus: Why would scum drixx go to all this effort of pointing out the vote issues and isolating you as the person who had a double vote, when he could have instead just told his teammates about it and they could have either planned accordingly, or just killed you? You guys seem to like to describe behavior as anti-town. I think it's pretty damn anti-town to tunnel on someone who doesn't have any scum reason for their behavior.

Yeah. Pretty much this. Cerberus had played with me a lot before. I'm fairly sure he will attest to the fact that if I were scum and had realized your Treestump claim was BS, I would have just quietly said nothing and then told my scumbuddies about it tonight and you would have just died.

It's only because

I believed your earlier lies

that I was paranoid about scum having the ability to cause problems with voting.

There was no reason to believe my treestump claim was BS yesterday. None at all. You had to try to fish me or get me lynched to win.

I will be damned if I let you win.

I know wverything I will type will be seen in that vein but I really don't fucking care.

I have never been more confident short of an unquestionable cop guilty in a open setup. I don't care what I have to do, I will fucking get you lynched.

[Titus]

Titus: Why would scum drixx go to all this effort of pointing out the vote issues and isolating you as the person who had a double vote, when he could have instead just told his teammates about it and they could have either planned accordingly, or just killed you? You guys seem to like to describe behavior as anti-town. I think it's pretty damn anti-town to tunnel on someone who doesn't have any scum reason for their behavior.

The scum reason for the rolefishing is obvious. Force me to destump so they can kill me. As long as I was alive, scum needed two scum alive to beat me if my treestump lie was in tact. Scum needed a way to kill me.

If I refused to vote, Drixx would be rolefishing and wagoning my ass because of the mysterious double voter.

Scum had to come after me.

Stop saying rolefishing. That's not what I said was done. Stop coloring the interpretation of your response when taken out of context by using words that mean something other than what I said.

With that said, that still doesn't explain why it makes sense to push this into a 1v1 between the two of you, when any questions or suspicions he may have had could be answered simply by letting days pass, or simply by assuming you must be lying about being a treestump or about whether or not you had destumped and simply killing you.

He did not push a 1 v 1. He got caught with his hand in the cookue jar and I am riasting him alive. You are doing the equivalent of asking why did the scumteam send Adam to the kill, they send Brian and no guilty. So why not send Brian? Duh because Drixx did not plan to piss me off with his actions of trying to smoke out the double voter.

There was no reason at the end of Day 1 to believe I was not a treestump. I was literally confirmed as treestump to most by my self vote.

[Titus]

I have been reviewing the Pirate Ika posts, which is the only real indicator we have and what most of our efforts should focus on, and based on the reads they give I think it's actually less likely that the commonwealth is scum, at least Pirate Ika believes them to be town I think.

I also think Titus is not part of the underground Berlin mafia.

In general I tend to buy this setup:

- 2 scumteams with 1 volcano mafia who incinerates players and 1 underground berlin mafia that eviscerates players.

I think it's a bit of a stretch that Drixx claimed silver lining which has to do with werewolves and we then find out that the berlin underground actually eviscerate their victims, so to me either he is BP in the werewolves games or he is part of that team.

It's hard to exclude the second based on Pirate Ika's ISO because their Drixx read is wonky, first they don't think he is scum, then they join and seem gang ho (only to post the opposite in the wrong place), then they ask for the hammer, but in general the fact the pirates wanted to lynch Drixx speaks against them being teammates.

A flip flopping read vascillating between extremes is indicative of scum buddies.

But hey, what do I know, I am just the townie who set a trap for scum they fell into?

You may not like my style but Drixx is scum.

What? Now this was deliberate baiting of scum, and not some grand master plan for a town auto win?

Both. We win if I get to endgame with one scum alive.

If it fails, it will be because scum fished me.

[Titus]

OoC: I am fine. Thank you very much. It's perfectly rational to be pissed off at you for taking what should be a cakewalk and turning it into a hard game full of nonsense. No I am not unstable. I will fucking murder you and wear a feather in my cap is NOT meant iterally. If you thought that, you havemore problems reading tone than I do.

BiC: I do not believe you are town. I just said that.

Now I am off to bed.

If any of you have the ability to sit back and think about what scum would have to do to win this game with my claim as of Night 1, you should realize precisely why Drixx is scum.

If not, this game has ceased to be aboutvlogic but more about who sings Barney songs the best.

[Titus]

OoC: I am fine. Thank you very much. It's perfectly rational to be pissed off at you for taking what should be a cakewalk and turning it into a hard game full of nonsense. No I am not unstable. I will fucking murder you and wear a feather in my cap is NOT meant iterally. If you thought that, you havemore problems reading tone than I do.

BiC: I do not believe you are town. I just said that.

Now I am off to bed.

If any of you have the ability to sit back and think about what scum would have to do to win this game with my claim as of Night 1, you should realize precisely why Drixx is scum.

If not, this game has ceased to be aboutvlogic but more about who sings Barney songs the best.

...all scum has to do is assume you're always able to vote when making their plans. Then they don't get blindsided by you suddenly wrecking them.

Yeah, I don't buy your arguments. I'm also going to sleep though. Let's see what's developed in the morning!

In the morning, I will walk you step by step through my thought processes and why all roads must lead to Drixx scum.

And yes Drixx, I do agree that your level of stupidity if town is unparrallelled.

[Titus]

Drixx, your attack on me did not phase me on a personal level. I have been called insane, stupid, moronic, the most god awful player to play the game, told that relying on strategies that successfully work repeatedly are bad and a host of other things that make no sense. If I am not a chicken with my head cut off or there are a total lack of posts, the amount of insults I get is usually inverse to my alignment. For instance, look at Mini 1549 or is it 39. I was a mafia suicide bomber. I convinced people to lynch the people counter claiming who did not explode all the while not being confident enough to explode myself. I dispatched three townies in this regard. No one thought that was insane for the most part but for those scumreading me.

There is only one insult that has ever gotten to me in a game. That is by Impossibear saying they would have to be medicated to understand me and I was working hard to get a loved sober at the time because he had a very rare paranoid episode on weed.

Glad you are convinced I am town. Now I will get to my computer and show you why scum would be attacking me and town would largely let it go.

[Titus]

I will explain why I thought only scum would attack me to the extent you did. Momentarily. I may take the long way to get there but I had work to do. This was all designed from the start. I do feel this would explain a lot, even if people don't agree with me and wind up lynching your buddy and then we wind up lynching you.

My reaction regarding making this the worst tunnel ever seen was a little over the top but I am just as likely convinced that you are scum.

[Titus]

I was never a pure treestump. Every role in this game has an advantage and a disadvantage we have seen so far. Jackal's tracker publicly revealed. It outs town PRs and scum recklessly. Molla's PR stops all night actions. I vote on and off repeatedly. So the fact I can destump needs a counter... ala you could vote me. I would have said that if you would have pressed the issue. If I was a pure treestump, voting me would have been obvious proof it was wrong. Yet I never claimed pure treestump.

[Titus]

Spoiler: Why Drixx and Lihin need to die

When we reached near deadline day 1, I realized that I could not essentially beg people to vote for a leading wagon and then not vote for anything at all. I tried to VLA until deadline but people came too close to no lynching. To avoid voting while rapidly posting near deadline would be ludicrous by most people’s standard. Add in the fact that people know me and I rely more on votes in late game than arguments over who is scummy, completely not voting day 1 would be wrongfully interpreted as a scumclaim. So I deliberately self-voted and claimed treestump because I wanted to live where I would feel more useful. By hiding voting until the end game, I could have many more options until end game.
If Molla decided to lie, I would “destump” and counter him, so I never really cared what his alignment was. As long as Molla and I were both alive, I could ensure and extra lynch or get a guaranteed scum lynch. There was no point in using Molla’s ability ever. The only good of it would be to cause players like Ozgin to not get an ability off. Even if Molla is scum, he could not counteract my ability since I was already “destumping” and “restumping” repeatedly.
Second, I saw that any game with just one scum alive would naturally end with me doublevoting the last scum. After all, who shoots a treestump? My claim of being able to “destump” at will would naturally piss off the scumteam.
Third, I have pulled a similar gambit to this before on USMB, although what I was saying was a bit more plausible. (Link here) There were two scumteams. I was immune to one. I claimed to be the reason why the kill failed, despite knowing there was a doctor in the game. The scum would be drawn to me regardless. The only players drawn to me were my sister (who frankly scumreads me every game), one ice scum and one fire scum. I wound up getting them lynched after exposing said gambit.
Fourth, the only player familiar with the bulletproof gambit I have pulled previously was dead and in the graveyard (ika). ika’s not the type to let a gamebreaking strategy go uncountered. Even as scum, he tries to prevent my breaking of the game if he bothers posting at all. ika’s not dumb. He may not know whether or not I am lying or not, but he knows I have some sort of plan and its best to wreck it if we are of opposing alignments. The best way to wreck my plans is with pressure. Given the guilty on him, his pressure on me would have been laughable. So someone else comes at me harder. Now who did that? Drixx.
Now we get to the point where one of the scumteams naturally has two or less players. Drixx then immediately starts pushing me to self-vote and prove my treestump status. I immediately ignore and attempt not to engage him. Yet, when he starts to want to mislynch townies because of double voters and people start unvoting obvious scum in Lihin to prove they are not the double voter, I had to do something.
I step in and tell Drixx to stop it. If he could let it go, I would have. I mentioned several times that the game is unlosable if we just let me do my thing. I meant it.
His response that if I acknowledged there were extra votes that he would have let it go is ludicrious. Who says, gee there’s an aberration in this voting pattern, I am going to ignore it once even my biggest detractor says its there? That’s ludicrous. I state that it’s ludicrious. I want Drixx lynched for his rolefishing.
Now, why am I convinced only scum would come after me? Because town usually do not care about lies that do not directly impact them. Hilariously Unbalanced 2, PeregrineV was lying about being a question asker. I knew it from the moment he claimed it because of his previous comments in another game. Usually when I present evidence that a townie is lying it works, but here the town did not care because the lie did not impact them or their game. I’ve pulled off other blatantly obvious bullshit but it worked because only scum cared about the bullshit.
For instance, I claimed Bulletproof Cop after CCing a scum gunsmith. It worked. I survived two extra nights and got two additional investigations off.
I do not gambit or lie very often as town. When I do, I do it when it will catch scum or not hurt us. I tend to favor claiming bulletproof as if it is important that I do not lie.
I told Marquis to let me handle setup spec because I had a plan around the roles anyway that I did not want to reveal. That should be obvious now.

Now, let’s break down all the attacks on my role individually since the end of the Jackal. There are not many.

At the end of yesterday, I was just a treestump. There was no mention of my “destumping” ability. There was sort of an allusion “I will tell you when I’m not a treestump”. #2219 is a stretch as well. Having a three shot immune to lynch role with a player that cannot vote half the time is broken as fuck in scum’s favor if true. I referenced vote shenanigans plural though.
OC starts pushing me to fullclaim and for massclaim in twilight. What the fuck? Massclaim in twilight. People obviously saw through this shit. Then their claim was shitty too. I have difficulty between determining scummy wgertz and just scum here. The question is why? Why was OC rolefishing the treestump in twilight?

At 2497, I pretty much directly state that rolefishing me is a bad idea because unstumping at the end of the game is best. In a 1 v 1, town wins. Scum HATE the idea of that. They should. It should drive them stark raving mad as they have to get two players to the end in a likely multiball setup.
The first on day 2 is TPTG which occurs right after 2497. They basically accuse my treestump of being a mafia treestump. I almost got them to state the role would be too overpowered for town. I haven’t cared for them much since that time. Am I certain they are scum, no. They stopped with the rolefishing after a few posts. I am definitely wanting to look here in the future though.
The conflict with ika also suggests he didn’t like the claim. He was flipped scum. He quickly abandoned this once the guilty came out but he was fully prepared to battle with me.
#2589, I VLA for my own mental health because of too many scums. This is not consistent with me pushing one or two scumreads. (Drixx mostly, but a little bit of Lihin, ika and OC). I couldn’t really push TPTG by saying yes you feel into my trap… well what was it… uhhh…well you see?
#2879, Ozgin checking me meant I could be conftown and NEVER have people look at the vote numbers. I just say it’s anti town because I’m conftown and basically stop people from looking.
I again say that this will piss scum off. Of course it would. If my claims were true, both scumteams would be pissed.
#2946, Me stating not to check BBMolla because him being conftown is bad. This is consistent with everything else I’ve done to basically stop the game from losing. I didn’t want Molla investigated unless he was attempting to conftown himself. Molla conftown means it would be difficult to counteract his nightskip if he was scum.

Now we get to Drixx and his professed epic stupidity.
He claims (1) to believe me as treestump and to not be rolefishing others. A detailed look at 2985 suggests this is not the case.
First, he has “Titus claims to still be a treestump” in italics. This suggests he’s drawing attention to the fact he does NOT believe me. The request for me to self-vote is a rolefishing one because he is deliberately hunting for the double voter(s). He’s either rolefishing me or rolefishing them. He’s rolefishing someone because he wants to find a particular role.
This post comes suspiciously after the Lihin wagon takes off. These two have been back and forth awkwardly voting and defending each other through the thread. I doubt it’s a coincidence that Drixx “just noticed” the votecount being off.
I ignore this post because the last thing I want to do is be forced to vote. After all Drixx just said he was being an idiot. If I let it go, maybe he will too.
Lihin then claims Town Foreman who can reduce prod replace times. Yet, she doesn’t pick the guy who is wagoned solely for being a lurker? She picks Bulba. Fucking really? Hell no.

The attention is on Lihin for that part of her claim being obvious bullshit. So what does Drixx do? He immediately asks Cooper to self-vote to prove he’s not a double voter. This annoyed the fuck out of me. Yet, what can I do? My hands are tied. Unless he rolefishes me, I cannot do shit. Yet, this will be a massive distraction from the wagon.
#3022 is good posting by OC highlighting the fact that Drixx and Lihin have been linked together like Siamese panda bears.

#3048, Good posting again by OC highlighting that lying to a player and players is bad. Let’s see here, the mod lied to us about prod statuses by saying players are prodded after X time. According to Lihin Bulba is not told about his hated status, which is incredibly bastard in and of itself. Yes, you take one less vote to lynch but why would I tell you about that as a non-bastard mod?

OC does vote me later, but I have no problem with this vote (in terms of my gambit anyway) because it’s about meta and not about anything else. Sure it could be a distraction for Lihin but that seems like a stretch major given he’s been making solid cases on why to lynch Lihin.
#3095, Cooper wants to tell him to look into the discrepancies. I tell him no. That’s a bad idea. I direct Cooper to the part where the number of votes to lynch is independent of the number of players in the game. I intended that to end the scenario as who cares about the number of votes.
Scum doublehammer? Great. They scumclaimed. Literally, who should fucking care but scum.
#3102, Saying again this process is anti-town and distracts from obvscum Lihin.
#3103, I highlight the scum motivation in Drixx pursuing this.
Drixx then starts having a paranoia fit saying I’m lying. “There were no discrepancies” was not a lie. There were none. No one was double voting, and no one was going to.
I tell him to shut up. Repeat myself.

Drixx just insists on calling me a liar and redoing my math to reach the same conclusion.
And we are at the kill Drixx moment.

We kill Drixx or Lihin today. Then we kill the other. Both are fucking scum.

I spoiled that because it was three single space typed pages in word. It goes through almost all of my motivations for the entire fucking game. Why I did it and HOW I did it.

TLDR, OC and Lihin are not buddied. Drixx and Lihin are most likely buddies. There's a remote chance Drixx is the Mathblade of this game, but it's highly unlikely given the timing of his pushes and how they benefit Lihin scum.

[Titus]

Wait am I not voting lihin?
VOTE: lihin
Did Bro vote you titus?

Yes, he voted me because I asked him to explain something I viewed as scummy.

[Titus]

Lihin claimed hated townie maker and replacement deadline closer.

Drixx claimed scumbuddies eith Lihin.

[Titus]

Lihin claimed hated townie maker and replacement deadline closer.

Drixx claimed scumbuddies eith Lihin.

Did we have a tracker that cleared anybody?

Jackal public tracker is dead.

If y'all want to lynch Lihin first, I am down

[Titus]

Helping the counter wagon because I'm not a fan of the Lihin wagon.

This will allow structure in the votes so that any person who switches wagons will cause the lynch victim to sway.
VOTE: Oranje

I literally hate every vote you cast. Can you vote the more likely scum please? For the hat buddies? After Drixx and Lihin flip, we can look into OC.

[Titus]

I agree suicide is unacceptable. If I am a big an idiot, then no one will ever vote you. So what do you have to gain by resignation? Resignation here only helps you if you're scum. This is the second ploy I have seen on your behalf that seems tailor made to save Lihin.

First, you rolefish. Second, you volunteer to be lynched.

[Titus]

I absolutely do care about logic. Hell, my logic at the late game as town is pretty damn good once we keep people from posting such lunacy as you. The votes usually get really close to solving the puzzle unless scum cw themselves.

I've pulled this exact same gambit before and it caught two scum and one town who has Titus is always scum itis. So yes, I believe you are scum. That's hardly sufficient to quit. Stop the melodrama.

If you want to convince me you are town, start acting like it rather than crying I think you're scum. K thx. Articulate your reads rather than spending every waking minute attacking me.

[Titus]

Drixx, stop the drama. Vote Lihin scum.

[Titus]

If you want to convince me you are town, start acting like it rather than crying I think you're scum. K thx. Articulate your reads rather than spending every waking minute attacking me.

I've already told you the complete and accurate truth about what happened. Other people backed my logic. TPTG pointed out that your treestump claim lie was busted long before I noticed the vote number irregularity. Your case against me makes zero logical sense. You refuse to let contrary evidence even sway you, therefore there is no way to convince you, short of my flip.

So put your money where your mouth is and lynch me. I'm out. I'll prod dodge until I'm dead. I don't expect to respond to anything, give reads or really anything else. I won't be baited into helping you create more smokescreen. Have fun with your game. I'm pretty sure all you are going to accomplish is to luck into getting a scum, assuming Lihin flips scum. Lihin wasn't even your scumread or your case, but I'm sure you'll take credit for it and claim that your "approach" works because it's acceptable to mislynch one townie for one scum, and conveniently in your mind you will be the one responsible for Lihin.

Or, in a more just world, we'll both flip town and you'll just be outed for the irrational fraud you appear to me to be.

Peace and love to all, especially Titus who is horribly wrong about me.

Umm. You're being fairly ridiculous. If the game has lost all value to you, replace?

This.

You are trying to paint me as some insane player that NEVER reconsiders her opinions. I reconsider opinions with evidence they are wrong.

Yet, you are absolutely refusing to do anything remotely resembling scumhunting to give me the opportunity to change my mind. I admitted I overreacted on how fast and hard you should be lynched, but scumreading you based on you failing my test is NOT an overreaction.

Lihin is also obvious scum. I've already highlighted the connection between your two slots before you decided to go all in on rolefishing me.

If you want me to get better, do SOMETHING to convince me I am wrong.

[Titus]

I don't understand the giving up here- your wagon consists of one person.
Titus has a lynch-on for you... tommorow she can't even vote if her claim is truthful.

Lihin has a strong wagon - if you think its bad, comment on it- if you think its good comment on that.
If you're think there is a better lynch candidate comment on that.
Wanting to be lynched doesn't help town at all. It probably doesn't even help you if you're scum.

This, but the latter actually may Narn.

Look at the timing of our fight. Lihin had a wagon of 7. Here, Lihin wagon takes off again and Drixx is all lynch me please.

Lihin is likely more valuable of a scum role if I am right and they are both scum.

[Titus]

If you want me to get better, do SOMETHING to convince me I am wrong.

I, along with several other people, have already given you strong logical arguments that counter your case for me being scum. So far as I recall, you haven't even bothered to respond to them. You seem to have simply dismissed them outright, which is why I became convinced you were not able to be swayed by logic. This is the last I have to say on the matter. I already pointed out why you're wrong. It's not my fault that you refuse to even consider it, and if you won't consider it the first time I say it, you aren't likely to consider it if I repeat myself over and over.

That's because they are not logical. They are based in the fact you believed me. That wasn't why you were being scumread in the first place. It was the how and why you rolefished me. Town literally didn't care to push the statement.

You haven't done anything townie at all today. Rolefishing isn't townie. Offering to sacrifice yourself in an effort to save Lihin isn't townie. No, you don't get towncred for that vote either as you were dragged to it.

You want me to reset. Scumhunt. Don't go back to the past. That will not get you anywhere. I know what I was doing there.

[Titus]

I don't understand the giving up here- your wagon consists of one person.
Titus has a lynch-on for you... tommorow she can't even vote if her claim is truthful.

Lihin has a strong wagon - if you think its bad, comment on it- if you think its good comment on that.
If you're think there is a better lynch candidate comment on that.
Wanting to be lynched doesn't help town at all. It probably doesn't even help you if you're scum.

This, but the latter actually may Narn.

Look at the timing of our fight. Lihin had a wagon of 7. Here, Lihin wagon takes off again and Drixx is all lynch me please.

Lihin is likely more valuable of a scum role if I am right and they are both scum.

When every single piece of data somehow magically lines up with your theory, they call that

confirmation bias

. I think someone else on the site has coined this type of thinking the "Regardless of card".

The thing is, even just in this small post you are self-contradictory. If you believe that I'm scum helping a scumbuddy, then you should want me lynched. If I flip scum, then there's absolutely no reason to expect that Lihin would escape being lynched tomorrow. If I flip town, your entire theory crumbles. Logically this means you have doubts about me but you are rather sure of Lihin. If Lihin flips scum, you feel like you can easily get me lynched then.

The order shouldn't matter to you ... but it does. Why is that?

The order doesn't matter to me. You are pushing a contradiction where none exists. I said Lihin or Drixx dies. We can push the other tomorrow. I have a preference as to which one flips. That does not mean I don't want Lihin lynched. I want you lynched as *gasp* that's where my vote is.

There's nothing contradictory about having two scumreads and working with the town to lynch the popular one.

You're complaining about me tunnelling (which is what you mean there. The "regardless of card" is stating a player does something regardless of alignment. I use that frequently as either alignment as I want people to learn to read me). You're complaining about everything leads to you. Yet, you're also complaining about me working with town to lynch a different scumread to give you the chance to scumhunt?

Yes, I believe you are scum. Don't complain about me tunnelling and then gripe I'm working with people to get town lynched.

Just shut up. Don't talk to me. You are not helping. I am TRYING to tell you want to do to help this game progress.

Reads. Pick someone. Anyone. Make a town or scum case if their name is not Lihin, Titus or Drixx. Go.

[Titus]

nd then gripe I'm working with people to get town lynched.

Fucking damn it. To not get the town lynched. Fuck.

[Titus]

Town literally didn't care to push the statement.

I know I'm town and I'd care at least a little. Maybe not that much because DV knowledge isn't terribly important D2 (unless there's reason to believe it should be), but I'd probably at least make some light enquiries about it.

And since Titus wants you to scumhunt (and I want the two of you to shut the fuck up about each other for the rest of the day; honestly, at this point you're just as tunnelly onto Titus as you think she is onto you), tell me what you think about Oranje, Om, and Mag. And one other person once I remember who they were on the playerlist.

P-EDIT: SCUMSLI--nvm jk.

Oranje - Could be scum. Definitely not scum with Lihin or Drixx. Wgertz has this problem where he will appear scummy to a good chunk of the playerlist. Bro will always appear townie. I'm stating I'd rather not lynch them but I can see why others would want them lynched. I liked many of their points against Lihin and I do think they are a big force behind Lihin's wagon.

Om - I like what little she does post. Come out and play. Seriously, I'm not a cultist this time. *hug* I'm not after your mind.

Mag - She ended Day 1 in a manner that looked pretty obviously town to me. I haven't seen anything to change that day 2.

As for you not caring day 2, that's right. Your approach is what I would expect from town. Maybe light enquiries, nothing more. TPTG questioned me and I didn't lose my lid at all. There. Done.


Thoughts on Lucian? I have major troubles placing him. He'll swing from comments that sound really smart, then he'll forget the setup, then he'll make a vote that makes utterly no sense to me at all. I literally cannot fucking place him.

[Titus]

I'll just prod dodge through today, thanks. I've made my prediction and I'm more interested in seeing whether I'm right or not than trying to find an alternate wagon for Lihin; especially because the moment I do go find someone who looks scummy and I put up a case against him, then Titus will be right back going "See! He's trying to keep us from lynching Lihin!". There is literally nothing I can do to get out of the box, because anything I do other than help the Lihin wagon will be pointed to by Titus as "evidence" that I'm trying to keep Lihin from being lynched.

I don't think it's hardly fair that I could argue that you were derailing a Lihin wagon by answering a question I directly put to you.

Reads, please. Pick someone that's not me, Lihin, or you. Give me a read. Thanks.

[Titus]

I'M NOT ASKING YOU TO FUCKING MAKE A SECOND FUCKING WAGON AGAINST LIHIN, FOR FUCK'S SAKE!

God DAMN, man, what the hell? I'm asking you for your goddamn READS, not for your goddamn VOTE. You know what reads are, right? Those little opinions you give on players? That help those of us who can't read your mind understand who you think's scummy and townie? Remember those?

Umm that's what I wanted to do but I'm trying not to get pissed or interpret everything he does as fucking scummy.

[Titus]

@Drixx, 3252. No. Your reads will explicitly not be used to argue you're derailing a Lihin wagon. Stop the nonsense. I asked for a read on anyone not named Lihin, me, or you. I can't argue that's derailing. There are at least 5 non-town roles left likely. Knock off the pity party. Please.

[Titus]

BC, talk to me about Lucian. They make no sense to me. *bats eyes* Please.

[Titus]

Mastina, your game was a mindfuck btw. Very enjoyable. Is there a scummy for best mindfucking setup? :S

[Titus]

I can't really give Lucian any towncred for the vig shot. Hell, in Lucian's shoes I would have asked Pika for permission to shoot them. Pika probably would have granted it as it would eliminate the possibility that they would be scum together. Of course, I am sick dark and fucking twisted. I don't like players who don't make sense to me. However, players that make no sense to me generally are town so...

What are you thinking of ChiVi and vonflare? I'm not remembering much of them.

[Titus]

I need to redo my investigation list...the last one I did presumed I was treestump and getting investigated would be fucking awesome. Now it's kinda meh. Sorting the people we can't even remember what the fuck they are doing probably takes more priority.

[Titus]

TPTG, thoughts on Lucian?

[Titus]

Uhhh Drixx, you got a bit of kettle talking to the pot going on?

[Titus]

Let's lynch em.

You want to lynch all of those?

[Titus]

I seriously hope you all are punking me.

[Titus]

@BB, it's possible. Nothing he's posted gives me the total heebie jeebies.

@Magua, if I got a dollar every time someone said that the last game I pulled that stunt, my student loans would be paid off. It's not a rage-reaction-test. Hell, if I scumread and wanted to lynch anyone I pissed off, no one would be on my townreads list. When I did it on the other site, no one got pissed. No one believed me until late in the game though. I'm annoyed that no one believes in me. Maybe they will with a Lihin flip.

Can you explain Cerberus being on your scumread list?

I like Vyse as town.

[Titus]

@Magua, I've literally pulled this gambit before but I was iceproof townie and not a treestump. It caught 2 scum and one townie (but she always scumreads me) in a 4 scum setup. I did not pick at him but I don't think it's worth quibbling over. I have a spoilered wall that explains what I did and why I did it. If you can't follow it, then oh well. Drixx displayed exactly the same behavior as the scum displayed before. His actions derailed a Lihin wagon. I have trouble seeing the town motivation in what he did but there is a remote chance that is colored by what I know. The more Drixx stalls on providing content, the slimmer that window becomes.

I also would kill the cop over masons. Masons can be persuaded and manipulated. They are informed townies. Cops, the longer they live, the more of a threat they become. I do think there is a link between the PI being a roleblocker and the likihood of scum shooting Marquis. It actually makes Narnian's story more believable. Why would scum with a roleblocker shoot the cop over masons or a nightskipper? That doesn't make sense. Scum shooting the nightkiller makes sense because of the ability for an extra lynch. Then they block the cop. No one has eluded to being blocked by PI. That makes sense.

Who is Dorian?

Killing Cerebus is not a great move for scum. If Cerebus flips town, then ChiVi is confirmed town. Why would scum make a confirmed town in this setup? I would expect scum to kill ChiVi before Cerebus unless he was right on his reads or they knew he was scum.

I do agree with the active lurk read on him though. I haven't seen much of Cerebus lately.

[Titus]

Furthermore, I deduced that Ozgin isn't her partner. Some people will dispute this, and there is a certain amount of paranoia that is healthy, but that'll be for when it's D6 and Ozgin is still alive, not now.

I agree with the conclusion, but I wouldn't go so far to say it's confirmed. Very remote and unlikely though.

[Titus]

Spoiler: For Ozgin - Short Case - Spoilered for those who don't care to read it

Drixx was notoriously rolefishing for a doublevoter at the time the Lihin wagon took off. If he was genuine about his observations, why not push it sooner?

I pushed a similar gambit previously. It captured the townie who always scumreads me and one scum from each faction in the game. In that instance, I actually was bulletproof to one of the factions and lied and said I took a bullet. Still, they fished me looking to verify I actually WAS a bulletproof townie. Here, Drixx is obsessed with whether or not a treestumped. Town wouldn't care. If I wasn't voting soon enough, the reason would be evident enough.

Drixx pushed well after I warned it was anti-town for him to do so and now is acting like he's a victim, refusing to give any content at all because of fear that I'll twist it despite no one believing me that he's scum. That play resembles more like caught scum refusing to give associative tells than frustrated town.

[Titus]

@Magua, I'm not so sure your definition of neighbor is broad enough. There's a QT cop I've seen before. Don't ask me the game though. Technically, if that's the definition, the neighbors are millers to Marquis and all scum become positive reads. Basically, if the scum thought all of them were neighbors with each other, then shooting Marquis is high value. At least one of the scumteams likely shared that definition.

The day 1 scum killing each other is ultra rare. :S I would not suspect that.

I'll set aside the whole fallacy you are spouting regarding my logic. I'm wanting to move on from that. If it was just "gee whoever's favorite letter is G is scum" then I would absolutely agree with you. If it's an expected pattern of behaviors that are independently scummy, they bear more weight. If you disagree, fine. Now's not the time for this fight. We have a scumread we agree on. Drixx has the ability to show himself to be the town you profess him to be or the obvscum I know he is. What good does going back do us?

[Titus]

Also, Magua, the "stop arguing guys" type posts always approachthe issue from the angle of examining what benefit a suspected scummy play has for the player in question. Just reading my thoughts there should tell you whether I think a player in one of these arguments is more likely scum or not, based on whatever the initial argument was about.

I love pushing "stop fighting" as scum. People tend to like Den Mother Titus.

@TPTG spoiler that thing. It's slowing down my computer.

[Titus]

Of course, Marquis was lying about his role name, so, eh, this is almost certainly all useless speculation until we know a neighbor cop actually exists.

Neighbor cop may have been his best description of the role. I don't see why Marquis would claim cop and THEN be lying about it with a flip that's sort of like cop.

[Titus]

@Drixx, Someone asked for my thoughts. I gave them. How is that remotely attacking you for an inactivity read on Boonskiies? I even spoilered them so you didn't have to read it. Second, I never even mentioned your Boonskiies non-committal observation. I asked for a read. Anyone could observe Boonskiies is a lurksack. He has as many posts as the mod. Only TF had less among living players.

The more you continue this nonsense, the less it helps you.

[Titus]

@Wgertz, Is Bro still playing? The amount of yourhydra leaks is confusing.

Consider my vote on Lihin constructively. I am making a point here with my vote. I can prevent Lihin from self hammering as scum.

[Titus]

yeah I agree that boon post is pretty damning.

But why isn't Oranje dead yet?

Oranje appears much townier than Lihin.

[Titus]

Nope.

Would you care to grace us with some actual content, Boonskiies? In that game where you were town and I was scum, you made a metric ton of posts, and most of them were crazy talk indecipherable. You claimed it was your town game and that there was method to your madness. Sadly, my scum buddy and I put an end to that pathetic town before you could ever get to the reveal.

So imagine how excited I was to see you on this player list so I could finally see the Boonskiies madness in play for realsies. Son, I am disappoint!

But seriously ... since you made a big show of your town game being all bounce around the thread crazy and masking a more subtle game ... that leaves me to wonder what to make of Lurksack Boonskiies. Help a brother out?

I'm more active as ScumBoon than TownBoon.

Nice self-meta.

VOTE: Boonskiies

Generally that is true. I don't see the problem here.

[Titus]

@Drixx, That was a not so nice way of saying not providing reads is not alignment indicative. That is unless you are arguing you are scum. Your post complained Boonskiies is not giving reads and lurking. Yet you are antagonisticly lurking and not giving reads.

[Titus]

@Boon, pick something anything as a jumping off point. We can work from there. Just dig in. I would recommend starting with lihin.

[Titus]

@Drixx, For a man based on logic, how does ignoring a request for reads help a town player? Then passing calling the lurksack a lurksack off as a read?

[Titus]

Drixx is not amused. Drixx is not lurking. There are many lurksacks ... why does Drixx have to point them all out?

You seriously are dense. I want a READ not someone is lurking.

[Titus]

Looking back, thought Jackel might have been a CW for Drixx, but Drixx votes looked to have started earlier.

Vonflare reaches 5 first, is chased by by Vyse and then later Toon Fighter. When Jackel flares up, Drixx passes him, but then drops back, and Brantz takes the lead. He then leaves(!), and Jackel jumps back up with me as a CW(!-???).

This kind of makes me want to vote for vonflare, but becasuee he is in this list and also in Marquis ISO,

Vote: VysePresident

Make sure I look at the wagons when I get home PV.

[Titus]

Copper, Vyse isn't the type of player who typically engages in longwinded discussion. If he's referencing this and having a followable train of thoughts, that is fine by me. He did fight me townreading him which is usually town indicative.

Can we vote Lihin and discuss Vyse tomorrow?

[Titus]

@Bulb, I consider every scum team until its implausible? I was more focused on BBMolla plus Narnian.

[Titus]

@BC, I am not so confident the masons are town but it's a fool's errand to poke there anyway. Scum will kill them if we do not.

[Titus]

Oh and Lihin's claim would be more plausible if she picked PV who was wagoned for lurking. Having a little/no content spot replaced is good. Force replacing a three headed hydra with awesome scumhunting power. Bad.

[Titus]

[quote="In

LucianRoy is confirmed to have the ability to kill during the day (did any of us doubt that?) - but I don't see that as being confirmed town at all.
Heck he could even be Berlin City mafia, he really had no choice but to use it that way. He was wanting to use it yesterday when we had no information.
I'm not saying he's probably not town or anything, just it doesn't confirm anything other than he can kill during that day.

Scum teams having a vig are so rare as to be unlikely. Lucian is essentially conf. town at this point.

How do you define 'Vig' ---- do you mean.. Can kill? because thats not rare at all for mafia.

This game has plenty of roles with slight unique twists. Pirate Ika was a 'modified' roleblocker (whatever that means) we had a neighbor cop, my role is bit different than a standard redirector, a cop that gains bulletproof. I could easily see a scum team that has the option to kill during the day instead of at night, and if it existed the right move would be for one of them to come out as a vigilante.

I'm not saying I think he's scum --- just that being able to kill people doesn't automatically clear him.[/quote]

I had a one shot dayvig in Gundam Seed. Of course they had already burned it whe Isubbed in so...

[Titus]

Spoiler: PI quote

okay.

this:

Vote Count 1.09
vonflare (5) - ActionDan, Pirate Ika, BRantz, Ozgin, Jackel98
Toon Fighter (4) - Marquis, vonflare, Magua, BBmolla
VysePresident (3) - copper223, Toon Fighter, deathfisaro
deathfisaro (2) - Om of the Nom, Three-Pronged Trouser God
BRantz (2) - LucianRoy, Narninian
LucianRoy (1) - Bulbasaur Commonwealth
Soren (1) - Cerberus v666
copper223 (1) - Drixx
ActionDan (1) - ChriVi
Marquis (1) - Boonskiies

Not Voting (4): PeregrineV, VysePresident, Reubus Swagrid, Lihin, Oranje Crush

is pitiful 5 days before dl. there has not been 1 strong this entire day round much less a cw to look at. town needs to consolidate.

the single voters need to get off their pathetic vanity wagons and make use of their vote cos if we wind up not lynching because y'all are too busy derping and stroking your egos I am going to be pissed cos it will basically mean a waste of a day.

I am willing to compromise onto toon cos I like who is on there and I didn't like his comment to magua it looked a bit like posturing to me but the vote doesn't excite me in fact nothing in this game has excited me at all except townreading om and copper and trouser pple. the commonwealth needs to get off their lazy butts and do something there are 2 heads in that hydra and their lurking is inexcusable. who was it who said that vyse was lynchbait I mean have they actually played with vyse before? if not then they are likely scum!

@ magua

well since you did not sub into a game where I am being called a cunt, relentlessly harassed, where scum had faked a cop guilty on me and pple still thought I was a good lynch despite me voting and pushing every single scum lynch, repeatedly called stupid on every single page despite my reads being right, breaking down in tears cos I was to constantly feel bad about myself by the pple I had just met and loved and then to have you sub into the game while not reading the game and immediately start echoing what was said cos it was "kewl" I think the answer is likely to be no!

tammy and I kissed and made up and some pple apologized and nacho is arriving tomorrow so i am very happy right now. the only little rain cloud in my big beautiful blue sky is this dismal votecount so can you help me do something about it? I want to shame pple into taking stances and call out the derailers cos it is getting old.

@ copper

I don't think your vyse wagon is going anywhere but you are pretty active so do you think you can join a more meaningful wagon? what do you think of the toon wagon? the only person I do not like on there is vonny and I am wondering if he is bussing. if so we shld by all means we shld help him I swear the only way scum get lynched on this site is if scum help them do it you sure as fuck can't rely on town to do it.

This makes me want to vote vonflare. How do you encourage someone to join a wagon that's more meaningul and tell the town to consolidate and then recommend the wagon that you are NOT on?
With ika being scum, vonflare looks like a reluctant bus.

Ika's theme was all about compromise and working together. He couldn't push vonflare and have THAT be his theme. His compromise would have been do what I want rather than compromising.

This is actually a stronger case for Vysescum. He singles out that wagon as not going anywhere which smells more of diffusing buddies. I still don't like Vyse as scum but this post is a decent point towards that.

[Titus]

Lihin (8) -

Cerberus v666

,

Om of the Nom

, Boonskiies,

deathfisaro

,

Oranje Crush

,

Bulbasaur Commonwealth

, Narninian,

Drixx

Jackel98 (13) - Bulbasaur Commonwealth, BBmolla, Ozgin, Magua, Lihin, copper223, Om of the Nom, Drixx, Marquis, LucianRoy, Oranje Crush, VysePresident, Cerberus v666

This is why the Lihin wagon makes me a bit unconfortable.

Drixx is only on the wagon as a stunt.

However, wagons naturally have overlap. Most of those names I feel really good about on the Lihin wagon.

[Titus]

@Copper
Cerb is a"mason"ish role.
Om is leading a train from yesterday.
Boons total lurk bleh.
Death has frequent good posting.
OC has good posting but for the horrible twilight claim and fish.
I like both BC and Narnian.

[Titus]

This Lihin wagon smells a lot like YnB from InuYasha. Does nothing townie but yet hard to wagon.

[Titus]

There is a chance that BC is buddying the fuck out of me but I really don't care atm.

[Titus]

Drixx needs to stop picking fights and start hunting scum. You made a big deal...See I voted Lihin before and can vote again. We aren't buddies.

Seriously, if you want me to reread you, give some fucking reads.

[Titus]

@Bulb, My vote is structurally on Lihin. By being off the wagon, she cannot derp hammer.

Also stop making me paranoid on Cooper again. He fits easily with Drixx and I am trying to give Drixx a chance.

[Titus]

So all your "pokes" got you nothing day 1 Drixx? Cmon.

@Narnian, Maybe we should ask him to be less helpful.

[Titus]

How do you define 'Vig' ---- do you mean.. Can kill? because thats not rare at all for mafia.

Scum teams have a faction kill. That's entirely different from a role with a kill. Giving a scum team an additional kill on top of their faction kill is very rare and highly unlikely.

I was reluctant to respond here as I'm not looking to lynch Lucias (he did just kill scum after all, there are way more likely scum targets), but now Titus and you have both weighed in I felt I should clarify, and move on. Why would it have to be an 'extra' kill and not their faction/main kill? I've been in a game where one scum team could kill during the day instead of at night and just the type of twist some of the other roles are getting.

The role is a dayvig. It can be town or scum aligned. See Gundam Seed.

[Titus]

Drixx told the thread that He was going to play today for his own amusement. Drixx thinks people should look at this link if they don't get it.

Drixx wonders why Titus wants reads from Drixx when Titus thinks that this game will just go play by play exactly the way some prior game went. Drixx thinks that if the game is foreordained and fated to follow an already written script, then Titus shouldn't need reads and should already have the game solved. Drixx awaits Titus' grand reveal with bated breath.

Well I would rather have town lynch you sooner or if I am wrong, correct sooner. I evaluate people by their reads, the evidence supporting their reads, how they gather evidence, how facts change their reads, and the actions they take.


If all you do is be obstinate and not provide content, my read on you will not change. I get to reevaluate you or get evidence for later.

If you are scum, denying content and being an asshole works becauseit denies associative posts.

[Titus]

Ok then you went for the less plausible explanation.

If Lucian was the faction's killer, claiming one shot is stupid. Any other dayshots will be highly suspected as him and make him very lynchavle.

[Titus]

@Drixx, Great we know that Lucian's not a PR anymore so the loss to town would be less. That still does not answer the question. Do you think Lucian is town or scum?

[Titus]

I'd put a fair amount of money on Bulbasaur being Berlin Underground and Vyse being Volcano, the whole I scumread you and you scumread me but we both hate Copper more stinks.

If that is the answer, you likely have the teams backwards. Ika tried to get you to stop voting Vyse. Makes more sense for scum/scym.

I really don't like BC as scum.

[Titus]

Lol, people are actually scumreading me.
I guess shooting a mafioso isn't enough for people to read me town, considering the entire "two faction" thing.

Shooting ika was unavoidable. Thus, you get some credit for killing scum and are likely town, but not conftown. Scum have killed each other before.

[Titus]

@Drixx
That is the logic I used to point to you as a good deadline lynch which you firmly rejected at the time. I don't get your cryptic Lucian read that he is better than some think wtc..., that sounds almost like you know he is scum and complimenting him for fooling me, either that or you are super confident of what I think is a bad read.

Or that he knows that Lucian is not his faction and is trying to mirror your thpught process to get you to read him as less useful. He never took a stand there.

[Titus]

Drixx thinks that players who are good can still make mistakes, especially newer players who are improving quickly. Drixx wonders if anyone actually thinks that Lucian sheeping onto the OM case against Drixx on day one was a townie action.

Om made a pretty damn good case,
And that was before you even claimed.
Also, you were looking really scummy with the whole "passiveness" day1 thing you had going. That fit nowhere in the meta of the Drixx I would expect.

Happy tears...

[Titus]

@Titus
Why do you think Bulbasaur is town?

The pirates tried to get me off both Bulba and Vyse, but in Vyse's case they had the ulterior motive of getting support for the Toon lynch from an active player, so I think BC is a likelier teamate then VP.

Where did Pika want you not to lynch BC? Vyse was a possible deadline lynch to derail which is important to do because needs less evidence.


@TPTG, If you think I want Lucian lynched today, I want the drug you are on. There's a difference between not conftown and I want to lynch them.

[Titus]

@Cooper, That reeks more of buddying. I wouldn't rule out scum/scum but nothing they said was false. Mastina is a strong player that takes awhile to get going.It also suggested to watch for good posting from them. If you don't see it, then scumread them.

[Titus]

I just don't feel like lynching Lihin.
It seems like a generally solid notion that there are currently scum on his wagon. I'm not sure who, but I don't think they're bussing and/or driving his lynch to kill a scum-buddy.
Plus, he hasn't even put up a fight. He's too much of an easy lynch to be considered a good lynch, and his lack of defense, even after he claimed, seems like a good reason for the scum to step in and take advantage of his situation.
I don't necessarily read lihin as town, but I don't like some of the votes on his wagon. That's why I don't think he's the best option for today.

Lihin's lurking off his wagon. He hasn't posted. No one's saying he's town.

Scum are likely to be on any wagon we do in semi-confirmed multiball. Scum will put lazy votes and bad votes. Players are read independently of who is on the wagon. The only hitch if there's TOO much scum to be town.

The lack of a fight against a wagon is usually indicative of boned scum in multiball moreso than anything else. Instead, counterwagons will be offered, catering to those with suspicions elsewhere.

[Titus]

Wgertz posting out of hydra is annoying but it only adds 10 seconds to add that account toISO.

Intent to hammer.

[Titus]

Oh and Om, I expect more tomorrow from you.

[Titus]

I want to make sure Copper and Vyse are done first.

[Titus]

@Lucian, that doesn't matter. Vyse has IRL concerns. Unless you think he's lying and have evidence to support it, asking players about IRL is generally considered unsportsman.

@Vyse, I would prefer tonight as I was hoping to spend all day playing Pillars of Eternity. :$

[Titus]

Doubly so when the person who mostly suspects you

cannot even vote

.

[Titus]

@Drixx, you're stating that you'd rather be alive than find scum. That's pretty shockingly scummy. Add that in with your total refusal to actually take a hard stance on anyone not named Titus, Lihin or Drixx, you look pretty scummy.

Also, I have enough "rivals". I was kinda hoping the rivalry bullshit was dead with Pika.

@Cooper, I'm leaning towards playing a Barbarian my first play through. So many new classes though. The Cipher sounds pretty badass. Attacking people with their minds.

[Titus]

@Cerebus, I think it's

you

that's having trouble understanding context.

He says he thinks Lihin is scum. He says he doesn't want Lihin lynched, because then he would be next. He'd rather not be dead, so he'd rather not lynch scum.

Ergo, he's stating he'd rather be alive than find scum.

Also, why do you think that your alignment has any bearing on Lihin/Drixx.

I agree with everything else you said.


P-edit: I generally do not hammer when people want to talk.

[Titus]

@Cerebus, I don't consider all questioning of a Drixx wagon as possible scumbuddies to be clear. Directly saying that you think Drixx is town doesn't mean anything regarding your alignment, particularly because you clearly articulated what you thought were comprehension issues.

If he had actually just said he hoped town wouldn't blindly follow, I wouldn't have said that it looked as scummy.

Anyway, moving on...

I'm not so sure about the push on vonflare. Vonflare was lurking but TF has fewer posts and less memorable stances. :shrug:

Your thoughts on OC?

[Titus]

@Ozgin, who do you think is scummier than Lihin?

[Titus]

@Ozgin, who do you think is scummier than Lihin?

The person who I'll be investigating tonight

Ahh, so you're the investigate scummy type.

The other type is investigating the nulls. If I knew you were that type, I wouldn't have asked.

[Titus]

dis is painful i might just lolololol hammer.

Why is it painful? Why the rush?

[Titus]

I still don't get why we're lynching an inactive.
It's just bad play to do so.

This is wrong. Someone who lurks after being scummy plus having a scummy role claim is a decent lynch. We lose little if the slot is town and gain plenty if the slot is scum. My biggest issue with Lihin's claim is who she used it on. Why on BC? Why not pick ooohhh PV who everyone thinks is a lurksack?

Second, it sends a message to town and scum alike. Lurking will not be tolerated. That gives us a more complete picture for the future.

Third, Lihin being scum and no strong counterwagon emerging tells us things. If Lihin's town (meaning I was wrong on her), then we all collectively know to backup and reassess.

[Titus]

What are you talking about the claim was a lie?

Wgertz if Bro is no longer playing, officially sub him out. If not, try to post in hydra so we know Bro is still there. Ty.

[Titus]

Unless we believe Magua, BBMolla, Cooper, TPTG and PV to be the last scums, scum was on the Lihin wagon. Worth noting. Not sure if that matters as at all though but I like noting things for later.

[Titus]

Well shit I just saw that. Slow morning.

Any scumteam that does not include someone voting Lihin must be a lie.

I'm kinda surprised Magua was nuked from orbit day 2 though. Why not wait until day 3 when they could frame Lucian?

[Titus]

Well, that's a bit of a relief.

Claim stuff: Forgetful Watcher is a watcher who receives their results at the beginning of the next Night instead of the next Day. So I would receive my results from N1 on N2, instead of D2. So I have no results at all from N1. Womp womp. It wouldn't matter overly much, as I didn't watch BBmolla or Marquis.

---

My kill is antitown (as is any kill where you don't get a claim beforehand). Gutread would be some sort of SK type role.

---

Pretty much everything I said in 3282 still holds. Still think Drixx is town. Think all of the paranoia around TPTG/Toonfighter/Lucian is pointless at this stage of the game. TPTG/Toon, especially, are high targets for scum regardless, and don't really warrant the noise. Lucian I think is town, but even on the .01% that he's not, with at least two scumgroups + probable SK kill he'll wind up deaded one way or another. Talk of voting/lynching any of these three is useless noise.

Cerberus remains my strongest scumread.

Titus is interesting. On the one hand, Titus asks basic, very newbieish questions. On the other, Titus makes non-basic mafia gameplay remarks. And then Titus makes comments like "I bet there was scum on Lilah wagon", which is pretty much a duh statement -- especially in multiball, any grouping of 51% of the players is going to have scum in it. I feel like Titus would know this, and find the pushing of it as some useful insight scummy. But the whole doublevoter-pretends-to-be-a-treestump thing reads as so town. So conflicted.

Are you even able to post during twilight?

Mod confirmed the dead can post during twilight.

Magua, I'm going to buddy you just to creep the fuck out of you.

[Titus]

Oh and my comment was not an I bet. It was a certainty. There is scum on the Lihin wagon. It's a mathematical certainty if you view any people off the wagon as town. Since you've flipped town well...

[Titus]

Magua was voting ceberus as only player, maybe cerberus has a role that shoots players on his wagon.

Maybe blue moon beers shoot out my ass when lynched.

If you're going to speculate, at least give SOME relevance to the thread.

[Titus]

@Titus:

Mission accomplished!

My dislike of your comment was more that it was "duh." Saying "There's at least one scum in this 51% of the game" is a non-useful statement. Like, it provides no value.

Good. I hate being too obvious town.

It doesn't provide no value based on how I think. Teams heavy loaded with the people off the wagon suggests that the person is misguided. Plus, tomorrow it suggests we should lynch from the people on the wagon (plus me since I heavily pushed it, in the interests of objectivity).

I start from eliminating the impossible to get to what is possible.

@Drixx, I had other things to do than wallow in self-pity. You're still scum until you actually fucking contribute. You know, with hard positions.

@BC/Copper - I'm reading the war of walls later. Can y'all focus your attention on the wagon? Thanks.

[Titus]

People trying to use wagon mechanics in a multiball game are not going to be very successful. A scumteam of 3 members is not going to be able to swing the momentum of a wagon off of a teammate when 20+ are in the game.

If I am alive on Day 5, fucking watch me.

[Titus]

Also why is kuribo-hydra still alive as a claimed mason.

I think the answer to that is the same as why a Volcano got incinerated .

That should be explained by someone who has already claimed though.

I am more shocked why the other faction shot Cooper.

Still thinking TPTG could be undercity.

[Titus]

Also, if I stop being lazy I'll go dig up some Vyse-meta for how he interacts with his scum buddies. I think he has 1-2 scum games on our home site.

What is your home site?

Also kinda glad I let Vyse talk yesterday.

[Titus]

So, who thinks both of these kills were targets from each mafia faction?
At first glance, I'd say BU faction targeted Vyse, and Tropical faction targeted copper, for obviousness implied.
Also, I think it's safe to rule out an SK at this point.
Now that there are two flips, each from the opposite faction, it should be way easier to look back and determine who was doing what, and why.

Later not today.

[Titus]

Still thinking TPTG could be undercity.

Then vote me, Titus


and in post-game, you can apologize for being terrible, especially after my interactions with mollie

My vote is worth nothing.

Second, I am not caring which faction you are on. Why are you attempting to disprove BerlinCity as opposed to both? Today I am sitting back.

[Titus]

kuribo, less pissing contest.

You're town. We get it. The fact that you're still alive pretty heavily implies mastin-town (also me-town but LOLOL SELF-META AND CALLING YOURSELF TOWN IS BAD).

This is a reach. Too many kill targets problem arises to give any towncred based on kills.

[Titus]

Second, I am not caring which faction you are on. Why are you attempting to disprove BerlinCity as opposed to both? Today I am sitting back.

because you specifically said berlin


why didn't you just say scum?

Because ika interactions only disprove Berlin City at best, even if we take you at your word.

[Titus]

BECAUSE KILLING ONE MASON 100% CONFIRMS THE OTHER AS TOWN AND WHY DO THAT WHEN YOU CAN KILL OFF CLAIMED INVESTIGATIVES

Then why was copper shot?

I haven't finished reading the previous day thread, so if he claimed i haven't gotten there yet. Other than that, yeah, Ozgin getting shot would make sense, but not copper.

There's also the fact that your slot is by far the strongest in terms of day play. A conftown Toon Fighter is worth relatively little, a conftown kuribo is worth a metric shitton.

And if scum believed Ozgin was BP?

[Titus]

So, who thinks both of these kills were targets from each mafia faction?
At first glance, I'd say BU faction targeted Vyse, and Tropical faction targeted copper, for obviousness implied.
Also, I think it's safe to rule out an SK at this point.
Now that there are two flips, each from the opposite faction, it should be way easier to look back and determine who was doing what, and why.

This is groundbreaking.
I would have never made the connection "Volcano eviscerates" and "Berlin incinerates"

When Narninian comes back it'll be clear if there's a scum bus driver (if so, probably Berlin?) or it was just a successful kill redirect.

I have been saying that indirectly for awhile.

[Titus]

Until Narnian gets here, kill speculation is worthless.

Also not in a hurry to rule out SK given Magua's strange death.

[Titus]

Second, I am not caring which faction you are on. Why are you attempting to disprove BerlinCity as opposed to both? Today I am sitting back.

because you specifically said berlin


why didn't you just say scum?

Because ika interactions only disprove Berlin City at best, even if we take you at your word.

so ika interactions indicate me as not-Berlin... but you speculate if I'm Berlin?

I'm gonna go beat my head on the pavement outside so that I can damage my brain, then maybe I can follow your train of thought

Or you can reread my posts and see I am not implying you are a particular faction.

[Titus]

Lucian, it's also possible that what we've seen is one night-killing mafia faction and an SK kill on each night, and that the end of day kill yesterday was a day-killing mafia faction's kill. I don't think we have enough information to know for sure one way or the other.

And really, if they had a daykill, no Mason kill?

[Titus]

@TPTG, Saying you still can be a faction does not mean I am implying you are said faction.

An object than can still be blue does not mean it is not green.

[Titus]

Volcano being incinerated seems like a pretty clear redirection, however Narn's power as described would simply cause the kill to fail if he redirected it to a member of the same team from which it originated. The flavor situation can result from a few different things: 1) the action of another redirecting role, 2) a mod mistake, 3) the action of narn who lied about or misunderstood his role or 4) a misunderstanding of which flavor is associated with which faction by town. That's in order of likelihood, and the only one's I actually feel are likely are #1 and #2.

Off the top of my head, the main thing these kills and flips show to me is that bulba is at least not the same faction as vyse, if they are scum Too obvious for them to both be tunneling on copper simultaneously, too easy a connection to draw. Looks like scum adding onto a case made by somebody from another faction(I would say town here normally, but multiball and all).

I'll have further thoughts umm. Monday night? Busy weekend then work. I'll be keeping up via mobile, but I won't be posting much most likely, and I'd like to look into the interactions and votes between all the flipped players so far.

Explain how Narnian cannot redirect to the same team please.

[Titus]

@Death,

Yes if something's blue it is not green. But to a blind man, both can be possible. I am not committing to a faction on TPTG.

VOTE: Magua

Note to myself to come back here.

[Titus]

On non voting days, I have stated my comments are observations. Period. It's not "weasel words" to type what I think as I think it.

Why are you upset so much? You are a "mason" why not just call me a dumb ass and let it go rather than get into a logic quarrel with me?

[Titus]

I did. You cannot follow. I feel sorry for you.

[Titus]

Prod Dodge.

Seeing interesting stuff. Wanting to see how this develops.

[Titus]

19 players and 18 votes in play, so it looks like Titus you are voteless today as you claimed, but do you wanna still get involved and commit that 0 count vote anyway?

I am using my votes as notations for VCA and behavior when I am voteless.

However, it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who I want swinging.

[Titus]

@Orange why did you make half the names blue in 3515 that you quoted in 3762?


@Drixx, If you want me to be my usual self, I would still be demanding for your head.

[Titus]

I don't see why you cannot post the answer to that for him.

[Titus]

Not liking TF's posts here.

[Titus]

He's a claimed mason.

Either he and kuribo-hydra are scum together, or they're telling the truth. It'll resolve itself regardless

I am getting tired of waiting on that to resolve.

[Titus]

@Orange why did you make half the names blue in 3515 that you quoted in 3762?


@Drixx, If you want me to be my usual self, I would still be demanding for your head.

I must have overestimated you then. I would have thought your whole case being completely obliterated by evidence would stop your tunneling on me.

There has not been overwhelming evidence at all.

[Titus]

I am getting tired of waiting on that to resolve.

Then kill us.

Oh shit, wait, nevermind, that would leave the other mason confirmed.

Guess you'll just have to hope both scumteams target both masons instead of claimed investigatives.


Like, seriously, it's what? Day 3 of a 26 player game? Stop fucking bitching about us being alive and DO SOMETHING WORTHWHILE

Yours in Christ,

kuribo

You seem to think making observations and getting out ofpeople's way is being bitchy. I guess I am bitchy then.

[Titus]

@BC, The main part of my Drixx case was the rolefish; the Lihin wagon was superfluous.

[Titus]

@Drixx, I will move on when you actually be town. I have told you that if you want me to reconsider you, you have to give reads. No reads; no reconsideration. I am chilling out to give you your space to try and town it up.

Looking for the double voters is role fishing. I do not care how often you throw the word irrational at it. My play is rational. I do not get bullied by the majority. I may push someone else if you are unlynchable scum but I do not suppose you are town because a few vocal players say so.

I am giving you space. Use it.

FYI, I have tunneled solely based on a player being useless and been right there too (InuYasha) . So the more you beg without following simple instructions, the less effective your plea is.

[Titus]

The truth is true regardless of how many people believe it to be true.

[Titus]

Titus, you seem to think that you are a Queen and I am some peasant who you can order around at your whim. I don't respond well to demands and threats. You might try lowering yourself down to the level of us common folk and

asking

what I think about specific things. Demanding that I produce some large nebulous thing that isn't well defined is not a recipe for success with me. Firstly, I don't bow to people who aren't superior to me, and secondly you haven't shown anything that makes me think producing a read with post citations and explanation for every living player would actually sway you in any way.

Drixx, you want me to change my read. I told you the cost of consideration. I am not ordering you to do anything. I am not asking to bow. I am asking for you to take a position and argue for it.

Whining and bitching do not result in townreads from me. Logical, cpnsistent content does.

Your AtE is wasted on me.

[Titus]

I'm not liking Om's absence given that he's generally a super-active player.

This generally. His comments were what started Lihin back on Day 1. No response there.

There's also an observation I expected should have been made. It has not been.

[Titus]

Molla's ability should not be activated until I am dead.

[Titus]

@BB, I agree. Drixx just refuses to do anything useful. He could actually move the game forward by giving a read that is not of me or him so I could relook at him. He refuses to do so. *shrug* Not sure how much more Olive branchy I can get without being dishonest.

[Titus]

@BB, I agree. Drixx just refuses to do anything useful. He could actually move the game forward by giving a read that is not of me or him so I could relook at him. He refuses to do so. *shrug* Not sure how much more Olive branchy I can get without being dishonest.

Because, you know, I haven't said anything about OM or Cerberus or Lucian ...

If you truly had said anything of value there, you could give a read that had reasons rather than expecting me to divine your positions. Throwaway aspersions are not reads.

[Titus]

The first two are closer to what I wanted.

The second is what I asked for. And that's a scumread we agree on.

[Titus]

Molla's ability should not be activated until I am dead.

Care to explain? Mollas power lets us fast forward to a day when you'd have a double vote, instead of no vote, but that's definitely not worth waiting around and setting ourselves up to get screwed when we find out molla's scum and doesn't have this power(just theoretically), or that you're scum and that double vote is going against us.

Molla's nightskip buys us an extra lynch. My vote toggle is a passive ability.

Day X is mylo. We lynch on Mylo and trigger BB. If it's a mislynch, that is not a problem as nightskip still happens.
Day Y, I have double vote. If a mislynch, we are in lylo.

Thus giving us an extra lynch. If BB lied about nightskipping, it should be obvious as no kills would process.

As for the me being scum, that's why I wanted Ozgin to check me. Cop cleared treestumping doublevoter would have been difficult for scum to stop.

[Titus]

**kills would process

[Titus]

@Drixx/PV, I'm not going back down that rabbit hole with you again. I've posted my piece. You posted yours. Repeatedly. The fact is, you rolefished. I caught you. You rolefished in a manner I had predicted because I ran a similar gambit. Cry that I "won't admit I'm wrong" but there's no proof until a cop checks you or you are dead.

That reminds me Ozgin NOT checking you was the least townie thing he could have done. His vanishing act is possible (I checked) so it's not autoscum but checking you would have resolved a whole fucking lot.

@Orjane (wgertz head), why are you so angry? I don't remember angry Wgertz coming out in Playing with Elements.

[Titus]

No Drixx. This town only thinks you are town because I tunnel. Period.

I have been working on sharpening my skills.

Any further complaints will be referred to the complaints department. They'll be answered with country music lyrics. You perpetuating this argument is annoying and anti-town. I'm trying to let the town do what it wants to analyze the game away from you. Yet, you are intent on just dragging this back to our argument.


You're arguing I'm not listening to evidence. I don't fear contrary evidence. There is none.

[Titus]

I've been trying to move on, but I don't think the discussion is productive. I agree with everything but assuming you are town.

[Titus]

Bro never gets angry. The rage that's been consistent from the time I was pushing you on the claim, the rage when you've been wagoned, you've been pretty angry. Trying to argue otherwise is just terrible.

[Titus]

You realize there's only 1 investigative role that returns alignment, right?

Cop
Friendly Neighbor
FBI Agent
Seer

So umm.. what's the point here?

[Titus]

@PV,

Simpler version.

Drixx was rolefishing the doublevoter.
I told him it was anti-town and to drop it.
He insisted.
I gave him one more chance.
He refused.

He fell into a gambit I did before. If you think I want anyone else dead before him, you are flat out mistaken.

[Titus]

Spoiler: Titus's feelings on Drixx

This is pretty much how I feel but I'm the chick.

Now if we aren't actually lynching Drixx can we move on to more productive discussions so I can actually prove it.

[Titus]

Let's wagon Boon and then have him focus, sub out, or die. We'll get something useful from it.

[Titus]

God dammit Titus, I kind of feel bad being a dick to you because your logic seems to exist on a completely different plane of existence as mine, but please learn some fucking mafia theory.

Why can there be no SK with that field ass Magua kill?
Friendly Neighbor, which I am very familiar with thank you, has an investigative purpose to clear or conform someone.
Seer is a second type of role that detects alignment.

Insult me all you want. You are wrong here but you wouldn't be so much of an idiot to drag up InuYasha unless you were totally fucking clueless. Bro ain't clueless.

So you proved you were likely town by being moronic.

[Titus]

Death, why will you be eviserated? That is oddly specific.

I agree you should claim now btw.

[Titus]

Friendly Neighbor, which I am very familiar with thank you, has an investigative purpose to clear or conform someone.

"Investigative" means "targets another player and returns alignment-related information," not, "reveals information regarding it's alignment."

By your logic an IC and masons are investigative PRs.

No. There is no night action that reveals or sends information with IC and Masons. If there was, I would call them investigative.

[Titus]

Actually I don't reasonably expect any of you to know what Agent Orange was so never mind that chemical weapon part.

Do you seriously think I wouldn't know what agent Orange was? Does any part of my personality suggest I wouldn't understand mass-carcinogenic-defoliation?

Fun fact: one of the islands that they tested the stuff on isn't too far from my hometown and it's been off-limits for 40 years

Seconded. My father served in Nam. He made real sure I knew what it was.

[Titus]

Investigative roles target a player to learn about them or send info to another player IMO. I did read your post.

[Titus]

Also while we're on the topic of Agent Orange/Orange Crush, let me just say how insanely proud of this username I am. It's like the ultimate flaunting of culturedness.

I am townreading you but posts like this make me wish you died.

[Titus]

Yeah, and an FN is not an investigator. Still the role falls into an investigative category.

This is pointless.

[Titus]

Don't care about that yet so yeah pointless.

[Titus]

Can we get back to actual scumhunting please?

I sm being a good girl and not dominating but y'all need to put her in drive.

[Titus]

@Death, I am not inclined to believe you. I was and still am townreading Bulba. I want you to answer Cerebus's question before I explain why.

[Titus]

I don't buy that both Death and Boonskies's claims are real.
That being said, I have no idea which one is telling the truth.

I will review Boon's claim here. Rather inclined not to believe Death though.

*vagueness alert*

Look for what you do not see.

[Titus]

Yeah Boonskiies was posting in other games as he forgot about the deadline in this one.

I believe that even less than Death's claim.

[Titus]

Yeah Boonskiies was posting in other games as he forgot about the deadline in this one.

I believe that even less than Death's claim.

Lol, how? I believe it makes even more sense. I was overwhelmed. Haha.

You were so overwhelmed to send a simple PM but could post many posts on the 18th which is the day we had to send stuff off. Yeah, that's real plausible you were overwhelmed.

[Titus]

@4013, I don't believe you Death because you aren't allowed to quote the mod.

Also, where's the push on Bulba if you found out he was investigation immune. Isn't that something like miller that needs to be claimed early to be believable?

[Titus]

You find out someone's holding back investigation immune, I'd expect a push of somekind from you d2 death. Yet, you didn't push shit.

[Titus]

@Death,

I didn't mean for you to claim. I meant pursuing BC as possible scum. I don't find a vote or anything at all in the event of your death that could be interpreted as I checked BC and got a really fucked up result. Maybe I'm terrible with crumbs, but as a cop, you're supposed to try to do those things. That's why I have an issue with your claim.

[Titus]

@4013, I don't believe you Death because you aren't allowed to quote the mod.

This statement is so incredibly dumb that I can't believe you actually typed it.

Do I need to explain why?

It fills me with actual, not-for-show anger that you actually would even suggest this, and yet people consider you a top-tier player.

I have lost quite a bit of respect for you if you're town.

Jesus fucking Christ.

-kuribo

I'm surprised if anyone considers my early game top tier. It's my late game where I clear people where I'm most deadly. Also, my scum game is pretty good. However, almost no one likes my early play but I'm taking great strides to improve it.

Also, what the fuck is up with the constant insults coming my way after I revealed my gambit and the fight with Drixx? Your mason status feeling threatened by little old gambiting Titus?

[Titus]

#4207

[Titus]

And #4021

[Titus]

I am not exactly thrilled with how many people are kill immune. Bulba, Drixx, Action Dan (by the way where is he).

[Titus]

More referring to the townread part, but okay.

There's not a reason to scumread you being paranoia IMO. Open, transparent, aggressive, acts based in reason. Short version.

[Titus]

Yes, Drixx is scum so yeah we'll just roll with that.

3 immune townies was impossible. Scum KNEW this. Hence why they had to fish out my role. Duh.

Drixx is scum out of the claimers. Dan could be, but he's universally lurking. Ozgin's bulletproof was shit, but we all knew that if we had half a brain. Ozgin and Boonskiies have major issues with their cop claims. I'm at the point where I have huge issues with almost all the cop and BP claims in existance.

[Titus]

Yo sup.

What's up with that Ozgin dude? That guy was whack.

[prepares to be tunneled to death]

So I take it your the newest hat buddy. Change your AV. The hat buddies are me, Lucian and now you I guess...

Although you gotta lot of explaining to do regarding your night action.

[Titus]

Well, you can start by explaining your role, accurately this time.