White Flag Mafia [TM2015] (Game Over)

[Zachrulez]

I think right now I'd lynch Anen, Elk or Regfan today, and not really interested in anyone else.

[Zachrulez]

So very many V/LAs!

Zack's point about Cheery does seem to be pretty spot-on from a look. That definitely makes me feel worse about cheery than before.

I think Aneninen was mixing me up with someone else there - in Elements Mafia (where all games are opens or semi-opens with unlimited private communication between anyone who chooses to) setup spec and attempts to break the game are pretty common, as are attempts to coordinate power roles to "solve" the game. I've generally been one of the advocates for actually scumhunting, though occasionally used what spec there was to my advantage, and when I moderated a game there, I tried to push the trend towards less "breakable" games by introducing safeclaims to the meta. The mafia won that game and town complained that safeclaims were unfair afterwards *facepalm*, but ideas for making the game less breakable have persisted, so I'm happy with that.

As for my team now, Aronis read part of this game but is still going. He thinks my BBT town read might be wrong, and also suspects ika, with CES being null and anti/tammy/anka being town reads.

I agree that CES's iso is difficult to read; I'm still trying to sort him.

I have no reads?

Have you been reading my posts?

It's pretty clear that I'm scumreading you/CES/Anka in varying order, and townreading BBT/Anen.

Zach is still in the middle, hard to decide how I feel about him.

My god. You sat out the deadline but NOW you're suspicious enough of CES to vote him.

KILLITKILLITKILLITKILLIT.

[Zachrulez]

sigh....

town on town wagons suck

everyone should join me on BBT

You're the 2nd counterwagon which has been heavily pushed by the same two guys that pushed the previous counter wagon to anen, with anen setting up a push for BBT.

I don't think that points to Anen town...

Just throwing crap at the wall and hoping anything other than anen sticks.

[Zachrulez]

If you can show me ika is town this game, not based on meta, I'll join the Anen wagon because it's town as fuck.

I think your own statement here should be an indicator of ika town from your perspective.

Also this.

Yeah, I mean, do I like your wagon composition right now? No.

[Zachrulez]

UNVOTE:

Catching up but I think the last post is going to force my vote to change.

[Zachrulez]

Got ninjaed

[Zachrulez]

VOTE: Regfan

Regfan claiming the open game as his team's 5th choice is what I'm taking issue with here because the open was our team's 2nd choice and I don't see how his team ends up with the open game without spending at least one token on it.

That conflicts with his claim of using two town tokens in this game.

I'm not going to claim anything about token usage except that our team did use all 5 on side selection and none on game selection.

The problem should become apparent.

[Zachrulez]

Well we didn't use any tokens for selection so essentially what you're claiming here is that your 5th choice trumped our 2nd choice.

I don't see how that's actually possible.

[Zachrulez]

I mean the problem isn't the argument, it's that there is literally no logical explanation for how your team ends up with the open vs ours given what you claimed your game selection was.

[Zachrulez]

I'm not privy to everything, but I know our team's preference for the open was 2nd and regfan is claiming his team's was 5th.

Unless our rankings without tokens mean nothing... in which case why even rank?

[Zachrulez]

So giving Regfan's team the open game as their 5th selection over our 2nd preference is reasonable accommodation?

[Zachrulez]

If there's a way this makes sense, I'd love to hear it.

[Zachrulez]

Ok.

Found the order in the team topic.

1. 13p Normal
2. 9p Open
3. White Flag
4. 13p Theme
5. 12p Nightless

[Zachrulez]

UNVOTE:

I guess.

VOTE: Aneninen

[Zachrulez]

So I have Anti and Ika as town

If I accept that Reg and CES are town that would leave

Ank/BBT/Elk/Anen

Would probably lynch Ank last out of those four.

My reads:

Anti: Bright Green town
Ika: Town
CES: Town
BBT: Lean town
Ank: Same as above
Reg: null, possibly scum (Not weighing the game selection issue anymore.)
Elk: lurkerscum
Anen: Bright red scum

[Zachrulez]

@Zach

- Empire was the one that submitted our team list and replaced out, last list that he posted in the QT was 1. WF, 2. Mini Theme, 3. Nightless, 4. Open, 5. Normal, I didn't remember the Theme being so high and Mina thinks 4/5 may have been flipped. We didn't use any tokens for game selection at all / wanted to save all tokens on Empire/Me drawing town, I've PM'ed Zor asking if he can give me what Empire submitted, will update you on his answer. Can you explain your SUPER strong town read on Anti in the meantime for me; I think he's town too but I'm not sharing the confidence you are in that read and I'd like to be confident enough to rule him out entirely - I did find his reaction towards the Ika wagon recently in Post 1611, Post 1612, Post 1615 reads town but I didn't like his Post 1472 at all*.

I kind of see Antihero as an alternate version of me, an alternate version that is generally a lot more confident (or conveys a lot more confidence.) than I think I've ever conveyed since I started on this site.

I know I've been at 1472 before in other games as town, so I don't really find fault with Anti there.

[Zachrulez]

You're the 2nd counterwagon which has been heavily pushed by the same two guys that pushed the previous counter wagon to anen, with anen setting up a push for BBT.
I don't think that points to Anen town...

I haven't got the slightest idea why Elk has been following me all the time, but, basically, do you think that Ankamius and Ika are town just because I was voting for them?

Oh just die already.

[Zachrulez]

If you're actually following the game it's pretty easy to see a progression of doubt regarding where I've been with Ank since the start of the day and it's also been pretty clear that I had a town read on ika long before there was ever a wagon on him.

[Zachrulez]

Anen is ridiculously scummy and needs to die.

[Zachrulez]

Like, nobody has a single, solid reason for me being scum.

I gave you a whole list last time you asked.

I bet Anti wouldn't have been scum reading me...

And I bet Tammy would. Do you think Zach would have a hard time picking between you and me? I don't. You can focus all you want on the one nightkill where there was one obvious option but the other nightkills tell a very different story.

I kinda cracked up when I read this post because when I looked the game over the night after the anen lynch I was actually planning to vote CES the next day.

It's not so funny thinking about it now because misreading my intentions there was probably one of the contributers to the elk lynch.

[Zachrulez]

Regarding Reg/BBT I did have a thought in my mind that reg flipping scum would implicate BBT because he vouched heavy for him playing to a town meta.

I'm guessing that had some to do with why I had to go once my town read of Reg started eroding.

[Zachrulez]

Especially considering that lead to the one scum lynch in the game. ^.^

[Zachrulez]

I choose to back him on that as well because following Reg and CES wasn't working.

[Zachrulez]

Well CES's trust in Reg is what led to his lynch, so that worked out pretty well for you guys.

[Zachrulez]

I should actually have listened to Sotty more. She had a pretty hard scumread on Reg for a large part of the game.

I felt something was off with him, but didn't want to rattle that cage because I didn't think I could make any convincing narrative for him being scum.

[Zachrulez]

Ank you actually had me coming out of the chair on lylo when you concluded Reg was the best lynch because I felt like it was a lot better lynch at that point than CES.

I much preferred Reg dying at that point due to the chance that CES was the scum designated mislynch for lylo.

Was sad when he got lynched instead... but in lylo it's really tempting and easy to stick with the existing wagons so yeah, just dem breaks.

[Zachrulez]

Most of what she said about him didn't make the private topic, which was another reason I was reluctant to go into too much detail about what she was saying.

I kind of wanted him to be town too, and was realizing by day 3 that he probably wasn't, but by then you were dead and it was too late as I was dead the next day.

[Zachrulez]

Ank you actually had me coming out of the chair on lylo when you concluded Reg was the best lynch because I felt like it was a lot better lynch at that point than CES.

I much preferred Reg dying at that point due to the chance that CES was the scum designated mislynch for lylo.

Was sad when he got lynched instead... but in lylo it's really tempting and easy to stick with the existing wagons so yeah, just dem breaks.

Yeah, I would've been a hero if I did that. Now I just kinda look ridiculous for how awkward my play was all game.

Well CES took the last lynch and you were in a position to decide the lynch as confirmed town. That's not nothing.

[Zachrulez]

Eh. I have a weird talent for being able to not be lynched as town, so that's not very far beyond par for the course. Generally it takes role fuckery to get me mislynched.

Definitely in the right game then!