White Flag Mafia [TM2015] (Game Over)

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

What is there to rebut? He's just gone through my iso and pushed everything he could possibly push without any real thought behind it. He just regurgitates the Aerostuff but points out every post that's relevant to it; I think at least a quarter of his points are just that I was town-reading Regfan and yeah, like most of us, I let Psyche get away with lurking.

Anyone can make this sort of post about anyone. It's pure scum tactics.

All you have to do, ika, is look at BBT's mindset. Look at how much effort he just put into the game at the exact point where if you and I had been scum together, he had lost the game. Look at how he's interacted with Regfan Today. Look at 2065.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

As far as "decide what the scum team is, then look for anything to justify it" posts go, I think I preferred Titus' ika-me VCA post.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

You're the one discrediting yourself. I've only ever made posts like that as scum.

I mean, I've talked explicitly about my Regfan-read Today, about how I townread his posts but get worried by his absences; I've talked previously about how I like to scumhunt with him. You could've commented on that, talked about the game. But instead you point out every time I interact with him and pretend my interactions don't make sense.

Your Anen-me stuff is basically contradictory - you claim I overrated how suspicious I thought Anen looked and how likely that lynch was but also take my non-voting as purely scum-motivated. The truth is much simpler - I correctly estimated how likely the lynch and therefore didn't feel particularly pressured to vote for him when I was still trying to figure out the whole scum team.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

The essence is that you don't want to talk about the big picture because my big picture makes sense and yours doesn't.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Both of you: Strongest three points against the other indicating scum. Go.

#1 is that the way he's acted Today, specifically w.r.t. ika, just fundamentally hasn't matched his reads. I won't go over that whole spiel again as I've said a few times now.

#2, which strikes me again after his last few posts, is that he will substitute :effort: for just talking to people at times (it's a bit more complicated than that, but I'll take this phrasing for now). Like just now, instead of trying to distill his walls into something more digestible, he seems more inclined to bludgeon you over the head with how much effort he's put into them instead. When Regfan posted paragraphs about why he was leaning towards BBT, all BBT did was call them scummy and call on Regfan to post a case. 1857-1860, where he just throws up a wall of quotes rather than answer my question, and 1874-1877, where his response essentially just consists of "write more or I don't have to address you" like with Regfan, are two more examples.

#3 is that his tunnel on me lacked both substance (in that he not only tunneled on me for 2 Days based on the Aerothing but had his other reads shaped by it too) and conviction (he certainly wasn't very active at the end of D2 when I was one of the two lynch suspects and didn't engage either elk or Anen even though they were voting ika and Anen had expressed suspicion of me).

(I could add a joke here about post 2065 being scummy enough to be reason #4 on its own, but his claiming credit for the Aneninenlynch and the behaviour surrounding that is unquestionably scummier).

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

On what basis are you arguing that it can't be you-BBT?

I get that you would argue for Regfan and I obviously agree that Regfan is a better lynch than me but lynching BBT is a guaranteed victory and, especially with the way he's been posting Today, I don't think there is any reason to overthink BBTscum.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I'll be limited to using the iPad starting tonight, so I think I will talk scum teams now in case Ank tries to seduce ika with it.

If you compare BBT-Ank to me-Regfan, I think the obvious things to point out are:
1) BBT-Ank has BBT in it!
2) All the nightkills make sense coming from BBT-Ank while killing Zach over Antihero would've been a completely unnecessary risk for me-Regfan.
3) The D4-lynch. Ank's reads at the time suggested a BBTvote and yet he voted elk, which was instrumental in keeping BBT alive. When I woke up to elk at L-1, I strongly considered both options of hammering elk and still trying to get BBT lynched. I ended up picking wrong in part because of fear that Ank-elk were trying to pull one over on me. If I were scum, I get just going for the hammer if I think I'm well-positioned for LyLo, but it makes no sense for me to do it if I'm partners with Regfan - elk was clearly death tunneling on ika whereas BBT was both more vocal and scum reading me.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Because if I'm scum with BBT, it's far simpler to try to manipulate ika into voting you rather than going in a completely different direction.

Actually, alternatively, ika suggested I just vote regfan earlier when I brought it up. That would've been a fairly painfree path to a win.

These two seem contradictory? Either you think it's best as scum to go with the BBT-me showdown or you think it's best to try and get lynched Regfan instead. They can't both be better.

This whole situation is a little weird since I think it could be BBT-Regfan but then this whole argument is irrelevant, so I'm left focussing on BBT-you anyway. I think a BBT-you team thinks a Regfan-mislynch is easier but BBT definitely can't push it and I can definitely see you not wanting to go straight for it, given that you've been reasonably standoffish the last few Days.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

It's not contradictory at all because even if I wanted to push Regfan for a win as scum, going for it when ika pushed me to would be a better time to do it than right now.

You weren't actually around then anyway?

To address standoffishness: Why would I go about being indecisive when those two specific plans were laid out before me and both would've had a decent shot at success?

I don't see how that relates to standoffishness. Given how you've played this game so far, I could definitely see not wanting to go in for a strong push on Regfan but just take your time getting there.

Actually, most of this seems irrelevant - going for Regfan before he had voted BBT would've also meant BBT would've still pretended to think it was me-ika and he would've had to react convincingly. Now BBT can switch his focus to Regfan easily.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

This assumes that Regfan wouldn't have voted for BBT regardless. You think that wouldn't have happened?

Not if it's BBT-Regfan. Yes otherwise. But the order does matter here. If you vote Regfan first, he has to feign some sort of response. If Regfan votes him first, he doesn't.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

This'll be my last post on a computer.

Ika, the stuff I said in 2137 is all valid, especially #1. You can see it in his response to Regfan's vote on him, you can see it in him trying to make you think he's town in 2026, you can see it in pretty much of all his posts Today before Regfan voted him and he no longer had to pretend to scum read you. If Ank leads you to thinking about teams, 2144 is right there for you; if you don't, that's probably better because getting the team right is harder than catching scum out of me and BBT. If you feel uncertain, it might be worth asking GuyInFreezer to look at BBT's posts Today and look at his mindset; I don't know much about him but I imagine he should be able to see it. You can also try to get Ank to mediate a talk with Wisdom; at the very least it'd be kind of amusing if Ank is scum.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I'm not sure what you mean but I'm not saying Regfan's fine in any sense. I'm not sure whether it's BBT-Regfan or BBT-Ank which is why I definitely want BBT lynched.

I don't want Regfan to be lynched but I want even less to lose to a BBT-Regfan scum team, especially when everyone else just seems to think Regfan looks scummy, so I do feel obliged to say I agree with Ank that Regfan is a better lynch than me even though I wouldn't be happy with a Regfanlynch and would rather just focus on getting BBT lynched.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

then vote regfan and lets test some stuff

I'd rather you vote for BBT and win the game instead.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I'm about to start on a 12 hour plane journey, so I won't be around for a while.

I mostly just want to say the same things I said in 2152, ika. BBT is scum, he's made that plenty obvious Today and lynching him wins us the game.