Kids TV Show Characters Mafia - Endgame

[Cephrir]

as tempting as it is to cure this game of you with a hammer, i don't really think this is a great lynch

[Cephrir]

or not a hammer whatever

[Cephrir]

as tempting as it is to cure this game of you with a hammer, i don't really think this is a great lynch

Cephrir.

I want you to tell me each of your problems with me. I think this will be a good experience for both of us.

i really don't see that as being anything but a flame war

Ceph are you scum?

no

ordinarily i would say unfortunately but this game im much happier i can at least feel self righteous.

[Cephrir]

man that sure is facts we r so stoopit

[Cephrir]

congratulations on observing my pet peeve about people saying they're certain of things they can't possibly be certain about

[Cephrir]

it isn't

[Cephrir]

Wonders how anyone can say the majority that lynched a town player is majority town.

so we have six scum? interesting

[Cephrir]

as tempting as it is to cure this game of you with a hammer, i don't really think this is a great lynch

Cephrir.

I want you to tell me each of your problems with me. I think this will be a good experience for both of us.

i really don't see that as being anything but a flame war

Ceph are you scum?

no

ordinarily i would say unfortunately but this game im much happier i can at least feel self righteous.

It won't be a flame war because, no matter what you say, I won't be snarky back.

Lets treat this as a r/roastme, BUT ONLY FOR CEPHRIR.

It's a bonding experience.

I do appreciate the attempt/reach out but I just don't want to. I'm trying to be less nasty already and I think I'm doing alright.

[Cephrir]

I'll try

[Cephrir]

Wonders how anyone can say the majority that lynched a town player is majority town.

so we have six scum? interesting

Not what I said.

But I see someone named Cephrir ignoring mj question and comments towards him.
You know the one where you town read bro but don't town read mj.
The fact that makes no sense at all.
That one
You keep on avoiding though.
Don't think anyone cares anyways

It is though, your statement implied the wagon was majority scum.

If you think it's not very obvious what I think about that then I have to suggest you may not be paying attention.

[Cephrir]

Ceph are you scum?

It does look like it.

holy balls dude you change your mind on everything every four seconds

[Cephrir]

True!

[Cephrir]

Nope nope nope.

Either you think that MJ is confirmed Town via Bro’s vouching for him or you think Bro is lying about it and scum. That’s the only way you can’t get to a Town read on MJ.

Yet Bro sits in your Town tier and MJ is “not on the list” for reasons that can’t possibly be sane.

So what is your stance on MJ again?

obviously no one can understand this.

yes, they're town, because they have to be. i don't know why no one can read my posts clearly enough to notice this very obvious thing

[Cephrir]

Scum do need information so they can nightkill accordingly

Also, in a decently well modded game, flavor should give no alignment information and only a little role information at most

[Cephrir]

im not really sure what the point of those posts was^

[Cephrir]

Scum do need information so they can nightkill accordingly

Also, in a decently well modded game, flavor should give no alignment information and only a little role information at most

A decently well modded game doesn't have 7 possible strongman kills in a single night, or a role that can become completely deathproof. I could go on ad naseum.

The point is that it can't hurt or more than it helps us.

I don't think that's true, though. Suppose I claimed to be Yakko Warner (I am not). How would that help you?

I mean, this is kind of a useless discussion, because towns are very resistant to things like this anyways and it just plain isn't going to happen. But... yeah...

pedit: basically what moi said.

[Cephrir]

Read Imperium's iso and tell me you're still convinced DS is scum

[Cephrir]

I finally decided to go for the mild effort of skimming Imperium's iso. I don't have a ton of confidence in my ability to gean a lot from it (primarily because I think Imperium are pretty good -- but I might be able to glean a little because they most likely expected to go deep). Still, you aren't likely to see me drawing every single one of the most obvious conclusions to their iso, just small ones that appeal to me.

How long has this day been going on for @Diamond

Waco vote sucks and has "easy nacho scapegoat" written all over it.

This sounds like someone with familiarity with my play.
Do you know me? Do you hate the wagon just because it feels easy? Or do you hate the wagon because of something you see in Waco's posts?

This seems like a good interaction for Transcend to me.

I'm interested in what others make of 922[/post, [post]923, 1676. 1676 seems like a bit of a reversal to me, I guess? I was going to call Snarky scum for being defended but I'm not sure Imperium makes that pretty needless switch off of Waco and onto Snarky in that case. I mean, sure, Snarky is not exactly a high value scumbuddy they would be afraid to bus, but their play the whole day around trying not to go after him and then doing so after all seems pretty weird particularly in a game that seems to heavily feature players who don't like to think all that critically.

[Cephrir]

Read Imperium's iso and tell me you're still convinced DS is scum

Nacho is as addicted to bussing as I am to things I probably shouldn't mention in a mafia game.

I think it's more the tone of interaction with him to me.

I don't know if I see him feeling the need to lecture his scumbuddy.

[Cephrir]

Honestly I would utility lynch keyen at this point

[Cephrir]

This seems like a good interaction for Transcend to me.

Good as in townie?

Because Nacho's point is actually right, and would make a lot of sense if Transcend were an alt.

Yes, that's what I meant

[Cephrir]

Is who you want to lynch in {DS, farside, grib, keyen, MoI}

Because that's my list at this point, although MoI is to get his bullshit out of the game more than actually thinking he's scum.

And this illustrates why you need rope.

Grib and Farside are most probably Town.
I've yet to see anything out of you in the way of a case to support either DS or Key from you.

And you are by far the most toxic presence left in the game after Katsuki was replaced. So if anyone needs to go simply to improve the quality of the thread it is you.

So you lynch list is bad.

I don't think you not agreeing with someone's reads is a great reason to lynch them. I'm not in love with that list either, but I recognize that the town isn't a hive mind (to be fair there's no lynch I *would* be in love with, I'm pretty short on actual suspects)

[Cephrir]

Is who you want to lynch in {DS, farside, grib, keyen, MoI}

Because that's my list at this point, although MoI is to get his bullshit out of the game more than actually thinking he's scum.

And this illustrates why you need rope.

Grib and Farside are most probably Town.
I've yet to see anything out of you in the way of a case to support either DS or Key from you.

And you are by far the most toxic presence left in the game after Katsuki was replaced. So if anyone needs to go simply to improve the quality of the thread it is you.

So you lynch list is bad.

I don't think you not agreeing with someone's reads is a great reason to lynch them. I'm not in love with that list either, but I recognize that the town isn't a hive mind (to be fair there's no lynch I *would* be in love with, I'm pretty short on actual suspects)

Utility lynching? Let's go for Bro. He's a toxic player, and if he flips town, then it proves that MJ is town as well!

From my POV he's quite the opposite of a utility lynch. He's a real player who can actually be read, who I can understand, and who is providing me with morale.

Also, proving MJ is town isn't that helpful, they'll just die immediately

[Cephrir]

VOTE: keyenpeydee

You know, I can't read this. I really truly cannot.

But the way he shifts every way the wind blows and sometimes randomly when the wind isn't blowing at all says to me that he's actually just newbscum and doesn't understand how to convincingly fake an opinion. Maybe it really is as simple as it looks.

And if I'm wrong there is absolutely no way for me to ever figure that out because half his posts are gibberish.

[Cephrir]

Ceph, how I feel about MoI right now is much like Katie felt about Caryn:

this is one of my favorite things

[Cephrir]

if mj is a real full friendly neighbor though then that wouldnt matter

also i havent read that bigpost yet

pedit: or that one

[Cephrir]

Read it, still not hopping on board.

What happened to Snarky for you then? Given he’s more or less disappeared from the thread to watch the louder players snipe at each other I’d think if you thought he was scum before your read would not have changed.

Imperium's iso gave me a bit of pause

[Cephrir]

i dont want to give commentary on that whole case as it's not really my job, but i will say I don't think 1940 is scummy and I don't think fluff is scummy.

pedit: o hai

[Cephrir]

you should read those walls they were pretty useful as walls go

[Cephrir]

it's only like two. it'll take you8 fucking minutes.

i skim walls sometimes when there are a lot of them but for only a few posts... if you can't be bothered with that then don't play

[Cephrir]

i want to vote hippy but i know he'll make me feel bad about it if i do

[Cephrir]

Sometimes ladies and gentleman, the easy mislynch is just scum

i agree keyen could be scum

also newbish question this is my first theme park game in eons but

when host says that "x" was "drowned" can we speculate that they were actually drowned? or was that just a flavorful way to say they died.

because if it's the former then there's probably an SK as opposed to a vig. if it's the latter then i just wasted your time.

it's an sk because they killed imperium that's all i need

[Cephrir]

Oh and also, k77 is mod confirmed scum. But I'll have you dig around for that

wait THAT'S who you've been referring to?

._.

[Cephrir]

I don't like the DS or bro wagons

Could maybe do hippy

I'm not sure

[Cephrir]

My problem here is that nearly everyone looks sort of town

I wonder if I'm sleeping on grib

Still no hippy sry

[Cephrir]

Sad!

[Cephrir]

A lot of people come to me and they say, these votes on me are really not good. Really not good folks. I'm not saying they are bad. But people say that they are.

[Cephrir]

Now me, I have the best votes.

[Cephrir]

I reread hippo he seems fine

Fuck

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Firebringer

[Cephrir]

I've decided fb was unduly slash uncharacteristically worried about spiff actually going to a lynch and suspect he's trying to coast on that play

Also he's done nothing town and there's a very small pool of people I can say that about

I think he is also more fun usually

[Cephrir]

Now this is a good looking wagon. Far, kraska, you should join, and Ceph, you should sheep all of us. I know you don't see how they could be scum, but we need you to trust us.

This sort of thing doesn't really ever work on me

[Cephrir]

F2f doesn't translate period

[Cephrir]

I don't really think this looks like any scum game of mine that I can remember

[Cephrir]

Re: fn: what Grib said

[Cephrir]

alllllll byyyyyy myyyyyyseeeeeeeelf

[Cephrir]

Evidently noone can read this post let me help

If you believe BRO and buy him as townie, I have to be there. If you think he's lying, he's inherently scum.
I don't even know what you're doing anymore. I think I'll ignore you.

it's because i don't think you're town by play but that doesn't matter and you are town unless bro flips scum

obviously

i don't really care if you're paying attention to me though

If you believe BRO and buy him as townie, I have to be there. If you think he's lying, he's inherently scum.
I don't even know what you're doing anymore. I think I'll ignore you.

it's because i don't think you're town by play but that doesn't matter and you are town unless bro flips scum

obviously

i don't really care if you're paying attention to me though

If you believe BRO and buy him as townie, I have to be there. If you think he's lying, he's inherently scum.
I don't even know what you're doing anymore. I think I'll ignore you.

it's because i don't think you're town by play but that doesn't matter and you are town unless bro flips scum

obviously

i don't really care if you're paying attention to me though

If you believe BRO and buy him as townie, I have to be there. If you think he's lying, he's inherently scum.
I don't even know what you're doing anymore. I think I'll ignore you.

it's because i don't think you're town by play but that doesn't matter and you are town unless bro flips scum

obviously

i don't really care if you're paying attention to me though

If you believe BRO and buy him as townie, I have to be there. If you think he's lying, he's inherently scum.
I don't even know what you're doing anymore. I think I'll ignore you.

it's because i don't think you're town by play but that doesn't matter and you are town unless bro flips scum

obviously

i don't really care if you're paying attention to me though

If you believe BRO and buy him as townie, I have to be there. If you think he's lying, he's inherently scum.
I don't even know what you're doing anymore. I think I'll ignore you.

it's because i don't think you're town by play but that doesn't matter and you are town unless bro flips scum

obviously

i don't really care if you're paying attention to me though

[Cephrir]

i wasnt disagreeing with you ds

im just tired of this question

[Cephrir]

you may need to learn to handle being disagreed with

[Cephrir]

Still not a fan of these wagons

kdowns is an easy wagon because he looks scummy on the surface. maybe he's actually scum but it feels more like a scum designated mislynch to me
I think people are willfully ignoring evidence that DS is town because they don't want him around or they can't tell scum from non-amazing town, but he might actually be more likely to flip scum between the two

[Cephrir]

well i basically have no townreads on that wagon so...

why does everyone think i'm scum :/

[Cephrir]

I want to lynch Firebringer and Gamma and maybe Snarky

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Firebringer

I've decided fb was unduly slash uncharacteristically worried about spiff actually going to a lynch and suspect he's trying to coast on that play

Also he's done nothing town and there's a very small pool of people I can say that about

I think he is also more fun usually

[Cephrir]

VOTE: keyenpeydee

But the way he shifts every way the wind blows and sometimes randomly when the wind isn't blowing at all says to me that he's actually just newbscum and doesn't understand how to convincingly fake an opinion. Maybe it really is as simple as it looks.

Also relevant

[Cephrir]

I don't think being really antsy about your gambit going through is town -- you would expect to be lynched the following day if it did

[Cephrir]

dang fb you sure seem to care a lot about discrediting me

sorry if my reads arent hipster enough 4 u

[Cephrir]

Like I can see spiffeh/fb...it just seems a little too elaborate a gambit if both are scum

i think it's possible.

also, Spiff, what is my scum motivation for not beating DS into a fine paste today? I had every chance.

[Cephrir]

Fucking lol.

[Cephrir]

@fb: Is that supposed to be a contradiction? I don't get it

[Cephrir]

please sk me tonight i hate this game

[Cephrir]

I reread hippo he seems fine

I've decided fb was unduly slash uncharacteristically worried about spiff actually going to a lynch and suspect he's trying to coast on that play

Also he's done nothing town and there's a very small pool of people I can say that about

Yeah there is a huge disconnect in your thoughts between these posts …

literally how the fuck is that true

My problem here is that nearly everyone looks sort of town

I wonder if I'm sleeping on grib

Still no hippy sry

well i basically have no townreads on that wagon so...

why does everyone think i'm scum :/

So everyone looks sorta Town but you can’t find a single Town reads on whatever wagon you are talking about?

Yeah, you are scum who is just happy to coast along making up crap aren’t you?

if i were scum i'd pay attention and be consistent

i am changing my mind a lot

i really don't care if you think it looks bad because i know i'm town anyway

what i won't be able to stand is when people later blame me for them not being able to read me and feel good about themselves

[Cephrir]

it's pretty disingenuous of you to say there's a disconnect between my two posts there when you're actually just disagreeing with my opinion

i mean, yeah, well, what do you want me to say? i think having consistent reads is scummy anyway, and that shouldn't be part of your program for reading anyone

i'm aware that self meta is not helpful but i'm probably going to keep doing it anyway

[Cephrir]

it's pretty disingenuous of you to say there's a disconnect between my two posts there when you're actually just disagreeing with my opinion

Well why don't you point me to posts in hiplop's ISO that show Town. I'd be very curious to see what you thought those post are.

i can try but since youve clearly read it already and not found any such thing so you're just going to use it as a way to attack me... i need carrots

[Cephrir]

I also don’t feel very positive about hiplop (lack of) contributions so far.

way to throw shade?

I've made like 3 posts get over it

VOTE: magna

315 is really scummy. Whole lotta fencesitting, shade throwing. I don't care about the part on me other than it serves no function. Why me in particular?

So much of it looks like trying to appear busy

i think grib is town but underwhelming

can we please lynch this guy

i quoted a part of the post with fencesitting grib

and shut up diamondsentinel

1.Distinct lack of town motivation,
2.overreacting to minimal pressure,
3.deflecting,
4. refusing to answer questions,
5. refusing to clarify/back up accusations,
6. appeasing the only person voting you,
7.expressing frustration at being questioned,
8.narrowly focused on self-defense.

1. prove it fucko
2. I'll call a stupid duck stupid
3. scumhunting is not deflecting
4. I wont answer stupid questions, fucko
5. What accusations have I made that aren't backed up?
6. Trust me, I think you're real bad and out of touch. I think your motivations make sense, but your results are horrific. I'd be willing to lynch all your town reads
7. Yea, you'd be pissed if some scrub tried to lynch you for literally no reason while defending fucking diamondsentinel for being a dick
8. lol

VOTE: Diamondsentinel

obvscum

I'm probably ignoring hippy till he improves or lynch him if he doesnt.

holy fuck

omfg

im literally gonna bash my head on a wall

@moi dont be an idiot

Saying yoire fencesitting for calling a big fight tvt is awkward snr fencesitting. That is pretty obvious?

Pedit: medical junkies are really obviousky scum. Can we lynch there

@idiots who dont understand me. I never had anything renotely like a townread on snarky. Its a "this guy is alwayw scummy" thing. Literally read any game ive playee with snowman i say the same thing. Doesnt mean i wonr suppprt it if people convince me. Its really not that hard to understand

Im town idiots

not one of these posts was made by someone who doesnt want to make enemies and is worried about how they'll be percieved

[Cephrir]

i have no idea why he thinks he's obvious town though that doesnt make a lot of sense

[Cephrir]

The problem is, though, Ceph, that's no longer (if it ever was) site meta. Oftentimes now, scum are more emotional than town when put under pressure. Sure, town get upset, but it's a lot easier to rationalize 1 vote when you know you're town (and can thus have the thought "well, the truth'll come out eventually") than it is when someone has a pretty decent case on you when you're scum, but nobody else sees it. Scum are more likely to care about a few number of votes than town.

please don't lecture me on topics i am more knowledgeable than you about

[Cephrir]

where is mala

if shes going to be maybeconfirmed town she should be in here giving us thoughts

[Cephrir]

guys let's play this GAME its called MAFIA it's going to be so much FUN

[Cephrir]

i'm not sure whether or not to be flattered, bro

even if i'm scum here (i know this is a strange thing to say; shoosh) a lot of my scum game is pretty subconscious!

[Cephrir]

i guess part of it is probably that i don't have to fake a need for other people to like me.

when people don't like me, you get me this game.

[Cephrir]

Where did this Grib come from? I like him more.

[Cephrir]

Also I want to talk about MOI too because I still have concerns there.

But I don't know what I want to say about him or how to express those concerns, and I think I've been censoring myself on that because it seems like an opinion I'm not supposed to have.

[Cephrir]

something about that rainbow reads list makes me want to actually do something.

more on this as it develops.

[Cephrir]

[10] Waco Kid ~ Fox McCloud, Cephrir, hiplop, Firebringer, keyenpeydee, kdowns, Spiffeh, BROseidon, DiamondSentinel, Transcend
[2] hiplop ~ Medical Junkies, farside22
[2] SnarkySnowman ~ MagnaofIllusion, Imperium
[2] Spiffeh ~ Waco Kid, Grib
[1] kdowns ~ SnarkySnowman

Not Voting (1) - kraska77

Why has no one brought up who the possible scum are on this wagon? I don't think a single person has talked about it all Day.

'Cause like. There is absolutely scum on it. Ten townies did not lynch Waco, or I'll eat a dirty sock.

Personally, I don't do this because I think it usually is not a valuable tool, at least not the way people tend to actually use it -- i.e. by pointing out where votes are and where they move to and convincing themselves that means something because tinfoil hat. I think that's lazy terrible scumhunting. What is valuable is looking at the HOW. How did X get on this wagon, why did they do it, why did they abandon whatever they were doing before.

Probabilistically speaking, yes, those ten players probably aren't all town; but there isn't really a reason to hunt from them over some other group of 10 random players except insofar as the method of their votes gives information.

I know Cheetory had a decent chunk of the game townreading him when he replaced out.

That was forever ago. Cheetory is a good player and shouldn't be excluded from concern on that sole basis. That said, I'm going to immediately contradict myself and say I suspect the slot is town because of Cheet's posts -- but that's coming from more of a meta angle. I played scum in a hydra with him once and I think his attitude here was more... not positive, but something adjacent to the word positive.

Everyone else should look at the Waco wagon, and maybe reread Imperium's posts. See who followed, who fought them, who kept quiet, etc.

Everyone should really have ISOd Imperium by now tbh. I didn't get a lot out of it, but it's objectively useful and maybe someone with better eyes can spot something.

[Cephrir]

It should be noted that my townread on that slot is not very strong and I thiiiink Transcend hasn't helped it for me but I intend to iso him at some point

[Cephrir]

I mean. If you can look at the wagon, eliminate townreads, and scrutinize the rest, I find that to be pretty fruitful.

You can do that with the whole game. The wagon is mostly an arbitrary group of people unless their votes themselves were scummy. Presence on a wagon alone is never scummy without context.

I've also said this in a lot of mafia games and usually less nicely.

[Cephrir]

Also I want to talk about MOI too because I still have concerns there.

But I don't know what I want to say about him or how to express those concerns, and I think I've been censoring myself on that because it seems like an opinion I'm not supposed to have.

Why are you concerned with MOI?

What do you mean you aren't supposed to have them?

I don't know. Maybe I'll have better words after an iso.

Like I feel guilty for scumreading someone who's putting in a lot of effort, I guess? If he turned out to be town I would feel extra bad? Something in that vicinity.

[Cephrir]

Also, I feel like you're buddying me.

Are you buddying me?

Depends on your definition of buddying.

If you mean trying to build bridges with someone and work with them, then yes!

But I'm aware the traditional definition is "trying to make townies like you as scum," in which case no!

[Cephrir]

How'd I do?

[Cephrir]

Obviously we are going to need higher rail guards. I mean, we don't want cars just falling off them.

Ceph, I watched you play in my Micro there, the person who put most effort in was scum. But you are kind of iffy on MOI for effort?
It doesn't sound right to me.

Oh you're town aren't you.

Well, it's not like I successfully read her there... quite the opposite

and then i got mislynched for the first time in like 5 years. yay

[Cephrir]

He does make a lot of sense sometimes. Other times I haven't thought so, but I guess that's fine. I think the stuff with Imperium did slip my mind, and I did like that.

I guess I'm still having a hard time with scumreads.

[Cephrir]

I think the only thing farside's slot has going for it is emotional stuff and I don't think that's beyond her. Maybe I should look there first.

[Cephrir]

It did seem like she really believed she had a point, given her intense frustration with me for not getting it.

I think she could have been scum and thought she had a good point, though. Maybe.

[Cephrir]

I thought it was weird that she preferred asking other people if I was stupid over trying to explain better.

[Cephrir]

You sure are unsure.

I know.

It happens a lot!

[Cephrir]

The firt step to being unsure is not thinking you're particularly hot shit at this game.

I've been doing well this year, but it might be luck.

[Cephrir]

I plan to. But it's Friday.

[Cephrir]

poly bridge

[Cephrir]

you probably shouldn't ever go higher than 90% sure of something if you aren't an investigative role

[Cephrir]

Also, I feel like you're buddying me.

Are you buddying me?

Depends on your definition of buddying.

If you mean trying to build bridges with someone and work with them, then yes!

But I'm aware the traditional definition is "trying to make townies like you as scum," in which case no!

Hm.

You probably knew I meant traditional buddying, so why include the "depends on your definition" part? I will vote for you if you say "it was a joke."

To inject positivity?

I was going to make a joke here, but that is not allowed.

you probably shouldn't ever go higher than 90% sure of something if you aren't an investigative role

He said "information," so I assumed a claim would be happening.

With DS I don't know how good an assumption that is

But we'll see

[Cephrir]

Bro, I'm going to color your reads in on the Waco wagon. Violet > blue > green > gray > red, in order from towny to scummy.

[10]

Waco Kid

~

Fox McCloud

,

Cephrir

,

hiplop

,

Firebringer

,

keyenpeydee

,

kdowns

,

Spiffeh

,

BROseidon

,

DiamondSentinel

,

Transcend

Going off of your reads, you should think kdowns has a very, very high chance of being scum. In a cluster of votes, if you see TOWN TOWN TOWN TOWN TOWN UNKNOWN TOWN TOWN, the unknown(s) should be your first priority.

You haven't really engaged with kdowns at all, or made any attempt to get a read on him by asking others for their opinions of him. What you've done is tell him "no" when he requested we use the full Day to get more data, you claimed you "wouldn't try to stop a kdowns wagon," then later say the kdowns wagon is dumb. That's it.

Imperium attacked Waco for trying to lynch kdowns. Imperium also lightly praised one of kdowns' posts, even though the post itself was pretty bland.

What do you think of kdowns?

He JUST said he thinks Day 2 VCA is useless.

Let me ask you, when you're scum and you see five townies voting for the same person, do you panic and vote them immediately just to break up their sequence of votes on the wagon?

Of course not. Analysis like this is borne from a misunderstanding of probability.

[Cephrir]

Yeah whatever this is an unproductive disagreement.

[Cephrir]

DS, I don't really think any of your complaints about bro's read list are valid. You make it a reason to attack him for townreading two players you've arbitrarily decided can't both be town, and it's from his point of view, it's not supposed to be objective truth.

That doesn't make it bad

[Cephrir]

I wish we could stop talking about VCA though, because everyone thinks they can do it and no one actually can and when I see statements like "I think half the scum were on my wagon and half off" I just get sad about the state of human reasoning.

[Cephrir]

He's organizing his thoughts. I see people do that all the time.

[Cephrir]

I'm not claiming anything of the sort. I'm asking Bro why he isn't turning his attention to a person he has no read on.

Do you have nothing to say about his kdowns read? Which, you know, I talked about in the other half of that post you keep ignoring.

I guess I just don't care that much. It doesn't seem a ton more egregious to me than any player X not questioning the hell out of any player Y

[Cephrir]

TBH, if anything I am bothered that bro said you had compelling points right after he said that VCA is dumb.

[Cephrir]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[Cephrir]

must be nice must be nice must be nice must be nice must be nice must be nice must be nice must be nice must be nice must be nice must be nice must be nice must be nice

ok it passed

[Cephrir]

Wagons are stalling because no one is adding votes to them right now

You guys are superstitious

[Cephrir]

My vote sucks

UNVOTE:

[Cephrir]

If I were on the outside, I'd bet that 1 was scum.

That's a really bad assumption dude

[Cephrir]

logically that whole post was a pretty huge mess

[Cephrir]

i could do spiffeh

[Cephrir]

i could do moi if you first convince me his interactions with imperium are not compelling

[Cephrir]

ive decided this game is a troll and everyone is town

[Cephrir]

I'd be down for a Snarky wagon if one ever materialized

I wish people would say things to me that were compelling and made sense so I wouldn't have to think for myself

all of this tbh

[Cephrir]

Kdowns isn't scum

He's just not

Stop it

[Cephrir]

you say that like i havent also been townreading him all along

[Cephrir]

i guess i had a moment of weakness somewhere near the start of today and called it a maybe

[Cephrir]

should've gone for an exclamation point

[Cephrir]

i don't know about heavy but certainly a bigger advocate than i am of the leading wagons

my vote is doing nothing anyway so let's see what happes when i VOTE: spiff

[Cephrir]

HIPLOP HAVE YOU READ ALL OF DAY 2 YET OR NOT?

this narrative bothers me i guess

[Cephrir]

yes that is actually the best i can do

[Cephrir]

Ceph do you really think I'm getting lynched today?

no

[Cephrir]

im aware that i am basically voting for gary johnson today regardless of what i do

its probably contributing to my lack of motivation

[Cephrir]

in short, i think the arguments against DS are that he's bad, not that he's scum.

Your point about him dropping his suspicion of bro in favor of survivalism is maybe the only thing i've read that's actually made me think about it for a second

since others didn't use that reason i imagine someone at least wants to mislynch him. and personally if i saw him on a playerlist in a future game as scum i too would think 'i am mislynching that day 2'

i can try to have better reasons than this, but i'm not exactly townreading him super hard -- something just stinks here and i'm buying his bad ate just a little

[Cephrir]

The amount of replace outs in this game is embarrassing for the general state of MS and how it isn’t the sort of thing that gives players a poor reputation. And if kdowns slot turns out to be scum he’s immediately going on my personal WOTC list and I’m forwarding this game to the Mods because that is a strategic replace-out if I’ve ever seen one.

Kdown’s slot absolutely needs rope. Again if you are Town seriously do an ISO on him. Note he has exactly one scum read (DS) and all of Day 2 has been excuse making and prod-dodging with no content. Anyone who says “Oh, they replaced we can’t lynch them” needs to re-adjust their priorities. Kdowns has amply demonstrated that he has no interest in finding scum and no interest in actually presenting reads for two game days. That’s a completely valid reason to lynch him.

You're trying to lynch bad instead of scum

Transcend was a solid Town read Day 1 (mostly for Cheetory’s efforts). The play today has been bad and I’m not leaning on a Town read on him for Cheetory much longer. But aside from Ceph 2823 has enough reads I don’t take issue with that I’m not going to move that way today given the many other players with reads I do take issue with.

Why are you reading people based on whether they agree with you?

[Cephrir]

VOTE: MOI

I am not listening to my superego anymore. It is not being helpful.

[Cephrir]

I brought him into the neighborhood.

Could you please clarify this?

[Cephrir]

My weekend was boring, but today was been phenomenal.

[Cephrir]

you know, ds also had that "unimaginably strong scum team" of kdowns and myself day 1 then flaked 5 posts later and voted camntsuki.

[Cephrir]

oh my god this iso is so terrible

[Cephrir]

i didn'twant to look at it because it was long but damn

also he said it takes a wagon on him for him to obvtown... guess what he isn't doing?

[Cephrir]

how have i been so utterly stupid about this?

VOTE: DiamondSentinel

[Cephrir]

i'm willing to come back to MOI tho

[Cephrir]

well if you guys weren't painfully scummy then we wouldn't be having all these issues

[Cephrir]

haha yeah

[Cephrir]

maybe try helping.

[Cephrir]

HEY CEPH (and i think spiffeh and maybe another person or two on the DS wagon)

It seems like to me the DS wagon has been their own little group of 5-7 people who want him dead with most of the rest of the game either thinking he's town for d1 stuff or just a town vi (correct me if I'm wrong on this though cuz I still haven't read like half the game yet)

I like the MoI wagon way, way more than any of the other wagons and there have been several other people i think that seemed interested in it too

Can you come over to the MoI wagon for now? I won't guarantee I'll stay on it but if MoI can't be done then after I can vote DS for a bit and see if it'll help the wagons stop stalling so hard at least.

OK

Vote MOI

[Cephrir]

This is definitely town moi

you will have to excuse me is i don't give a rat's ass about your opinion if you're not willing to explain anything ever

yeah 3 naked votes (4 including myself) doesn't sit too well with me lol.

VOTE: hiplop

shift the gears this way guys? i dunno.

people care about 400% too much about naked votes

I guess I need to keep in mind that MoI is lynchbait most likely. I played one game with him, somehow he ate a lynch when RC was campaigning on another lynch. It's very rare for RC to not get his way.

he is not lynchbait. if youre reading his posts in this game at all and you think that then you don't understand the term

Also FB and SS were both town in the same game I was just referencing, so I think they genuinely had to read MoI. And neither of them are on his wagon right now. I don't know how much that speaks for anything.

@Hiplop yeah it's just part of me feels he's

too

awful. I mean if worst comes to worse I'll end up policy lynching him if his wagon has the most momentum. I just don't see myself being the biggest contender of his lynch.

meta schmeta. also dunno about you but i wouldnt exactly trust either of those players with my scumhunting thank you very much

[Cephrir]

Ok, I will agree that either hiplop/Spiffeh would be a really nice dayvig right about now. That'd help clear up my mind a lot.

DS advocates for a dayvig on a null!town read over people who he previously claimed are confirmed scum (BRO and kdowns slot)

DS it's awfully convenient that I go from "never lynch" to "null!town" to "dayvig target" in such a short time period

All around the same time I turn against you and push for your lynch

What a coincidence!

Yeah

That's scum

[Cephrir]

gut mostly, also having an excess of townreads

i think that if someone is writing as many words as he is writing i should be able to answer the question "why is this player not scum" and i can't

[Cephrir]

Town S->W:
Grib
Firebringer
gap
Transcend
BRO/MJ (since apparently MJ will get mad at me if I leave them off)
Arisophanes
SnowStorm

Null T->S:
Gamma
Zulfy
hiplop
Snarky

Scum pile:
Diamond, MOI

[Cephrir]

Town S->W:
Grib
Firebringer
gap
Transcend
BRO/MJ (since apparently MJ will get mad at me if I leave them off)

Spiffeh at the moment but I keep changing my mind

Arisophanes
SnowStorm

Null T->S:
Gamma
Zulfy
hiplop
Snarky

Scum pile:
Diamond, MOI

whoops, lost you while reformatting

[Cephrir]

i don't really mean it like that, you're adorable

[Cephrir]

I went over to check DS's reaction to FB's guilty on Spiffeh, since some people are scum reading him for it.

Claim your damn guilty, FB. You will die anyways tonight. No scumteam would let someone who crumbed that live.

Also, I swear, if you were faking a guilty...

Also, DO NOT HAMMER


THIS IS EXACTLY THE SORT OF BS THAT HAPPENED IN MACHINA WHERE SOMEONE HAD A "GUILTY" ON SOMEONE ELSE AND WE HAMMERED THEM IN UNDER 24 HOURS!

I DON'T KNOW HOW THIS WILL TURN OUT, BUT THAT TIME IT WAS A FUCKING GAMBIT. 2 TOWN DIED BECAUSE OF THAT BULLSHIT PLAY.

This is not a bad reaction. It is probably the most natural of the reactions I saw. Like he has said, FB is known for gambiting. There was no reason to 100% believe or deny the guilty, the only way to know if FB was telling the truth was for him to fully claim. These posts and DS's further explanation/defense of his thought process here all align with how I'd expect someone who's both played and hydra'd with FB to react.

Oh, thank you for linking that. I had been taking what FB had said at face value, like I bet so many were.

Yeah, he's downright lying about me talking like I "knew it was fake"

VOTE: Firebringer

Liars get rope, especially as blatant a lie as this.

[Cephrir]

Dumb question. He was on TTH's game. Anyway, that kind of gambit falls perfectly in line with his playstyle and personality and it is really not out of this world to question a guilty result with no full claim coming from him. I mean, I'd question a claim like that form anyone, the fact that it was FB claiming the guilty makes it even more questionable.

There's no way any sane player should follow a claim like that blindly. And yet people are scum reading the only guy who stopped to think and ask for a full claim.

a) wow i guess 10 of us are insane
b) no one was lynching him without a claim

[Cephrir]

someone asked why I thought hiplop was town too

I just really think this feels like the hiplop I've seen before in other games, and he's even more motivated and is trying harder than in the other games I've played with him too. He really seems like he's trying to actually find and lynch scum and it just feels really, really town to me.

are we talking about the same hiplop

[Cephrir]

Town:
Snowstorm (made a surprising turnaround from his slot. But still a bit apprehensive)

Really? I haven't seen anything interesting from SnowStorm yet.

[Cephrir]

That is an exaggeration of what I said about kdowns, but also, I literally just made a readlist.

It just doesn't really have anything to do with snowstorm's posts as of yet.

[Cephrir]

Those sure are the words that I wrote!

[Cephrir]

thanks for that helpful insight

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Diamond

Sorry dude maybe tomorrow

[Cephrir]

I am not town reading hiplop

[Cephrir]

I'm not exactly sure what's wagonworthy about a pretty town post that has nothing to do with snarky

[Cephrir]

listen

you aren't helping us not lynch you

[Cephrir]

I'm not exactly sure what's wagonworthy about a pretty town post that has nothing to do with snarky

ceph youre worrying me.

Look at imperium talk about snarky. Its hella scum-scum interaction.

Nacho thought he was going deep and defended the fuck outta snarky

I think that's a distinct possibility.

It also has nothing to do with what I said in 3420.

[Cephrir]

does that ever work

[Cephrir]

Ds is still town as I've been saying like 8 million times

And can you think of any reason why maybe, just maybe, no one is listening to you

[Cephrir]

I literally do not care which of these wagons goes through

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Snarky

K

[Cephrir]

claim pls

[Cephrir]

Maybe

Does it even matter

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Diamond

zz

[Cephrir]

for a while, yep

[Cephrir]

you know, ds also had that "unimaginably strong scum team" of kdowns and myself day 1 then flaked 5 posts later and voted camntsuki.

oh my god this iso is so terrible

i didn'twant to look at it because it was long but damn

also he said it takes a wagon on him for him to obvtown... guess what he isn't doing?

how have i been so utterly stupid about this?

VOTE: DiamondSentinel

i know reading is hard but come on now

[Cephrir]

oh nvm guys he's town, he said so

[Cephrir]

same but it seems obviously off tone

[Cephrir]

posts like that make me want to do it less.

[Cephrir]

I don't think both of those players being scum is likely!

I might change to hippo.

[Cephrir]

I don't think both of those players being scum is likely!

What makes you say that?

Gamma is trying to derail the DS wagon.

[Cephrir]

I think keyenslot is possible.

I mean I do too, but you could probably quote keyen contradicting himself within 5 posts about virtually anything

[Cephrir]

Wait, did I misunderstand something?

I'm talking about hiplop and Gamma being scum, but you're talking about Gamma and DS.

No I'm not

The obvious consequence of the DS wagon being successfully derailed is a hiplop lynch

[Cephrir]

I hate this thread.

[Cephrir]

It was a collective thing. The town in general was wrong. And still is b

Tbf that Snarky wagon was a scum-designated mislynch to save your ass, so...

Yep. That was totally it. You caught us.


Oh wait. This is the most asinine moonlogic I have ever heard. Instead of working to make a counter-wagon, which would end up resulting in my death anyways, why the fuck wouldn't they instead work to make me seem as townie as possible instead of settling for a temporary solution. That is absolutely ridiculous, and you should feel fucking ashamed that you are even entertaining the idea.


You have played multiple games with me. I want you to look back at each of them, and tell me what behaviors are repeated from those in this one.

Cannot believe you guys are gonna make me put up with someone who calls other people morons for being perfectly reasonable.

VOTE: hiplop

I liked kraska but idk.

[Cephrir]

Go for it. Wonder whatever you want. Hell, lynch me! I don't care.

[Cephrir]

Ceph what are you doing.

At this point, pretty much whatever I think will end this shitshow faster.

[Cephrir]

Ceph why did you have to be scum this game

scum with a green role pm maybe.

[Cephrir]

should i replace out or would that just be mean

i don't think i'm ever going to decide i want to play this mafia game

[Cephrir]

UNVOTE:

[Cephrir]

you know what? i've been doing apathy wrong.

i don't have a fucking clue who's scum. instead of pretending i do, i should just sheep my strongest townread.

VOTE: gamma

[Cephrir]

let's not do the "omg there can't be two similar one shot abilities inthe game" thing.

grib, i think you probably didn't need to say that at this moment, but eh.

[Cephrir]

vca is still dumb btw

[Cephrir]

i dont really think anyone should ever claim hider

[Cephrir]

Ok, I really don't believe Bro. He's cleared 2 people in completely different ways.

Go jump in a lake.

Bro, are you positive you can see yourself? I didn't think that was how it worked.

[Cephrir]

yeeeeeeeep

tbf all of these are actually more late-game stuff if you think you're going to live that long but I doubt that's why he didn't use any of them.

VOTE: Gamma

No way someone as completely newb as Keyen doesn't use a shiny toy right away.

Maybe he forgot. Or didn't know how to submit a night action.

That's all I can come up with.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: hiplop

[Cephrir]

this is a reminder that i do not care about role speculation outside of extreme cases

[Cephrir]

Ceph why are you on hiplop when you know, deep in your heart, that hiplop's town.

I am sheeping Grib because my reads are all shit.

[Cephrir]

I know nothing except the contents of my role PM and any PMs I may or may not have gotten from the mod.

[Cephrir]

I agree with Gammagooey

[Cephrir]

Gamma is saying that he didn’t in his initial role PM have flavor associated with each JOAT ability.

what's wrong is that those quotes do not say this

[Cephrir]

Yeah the abilities are in the abilities along with the *you can vote* ability, not in the flavor section. The "flavor" I was talking about was just the ability names, which I asked Eleven if I could claim specifically to make sure I didn't get modkilled for role PM bullshit.

Ok with this in mind and re-reading the quotes I can see that makes sense ...

Although I'm pretty sure if you really thought I was scum you'd be screaming about "Misrep Misrep" ...

Seriously?

It was pretty obvious you were just wrong to anyone reading that post

And you're upset he's seeing it was a mistake and not blindly pushing anything you say as scummy?

wow that's really lame

[Cephrir]

And him not doing it just this once, proves he must have been making the whole thing up. Not that he is a human with a brain and not a robot.

[Cephrir]

I'm sorry that is too absurd for me to swallow

VOTE: MOI

[Cephrir]

Joat is fairly stacked imo. Would this game be stacked enough to have two joats?

Serious question, i wanna know if 2 joats is plausible for a theme park game.

it is plausible enough for any duplicate role to exist in any game that you should never lynch on that alone

if i saw two JOATs in a mini normal game i probably would still not care -- many mods think it's fun to subvert expectations a little and force towns to scumhunt/punish them for trying not to scumhunt, and frankly i think it's good for the health of the game

[Cephrir]

Grib do you want me to hammer

If you want me to hammer, you need to tell me that you really truly in your heart expect to see the color red if I do it

[Cephrir]

I don't either and I think you're letting your desire to be proven right cloud your judgment.

[Cephrir]

For the record I love all the people just assuming that there is a Serial Killer about and then giving players who are playing to a profile that fits good SK play a pass (hiplop, Aristophanes come to mind)

you mean awful sk play?.

this is flipping town. give me a break.

on the plus side, i wasn't on this wagon so now i can dodge whoever it was' sick vca skills.

[Cephrir]

(the joke is that vca is about as useful as half an appendix)

[Cephrir]

Rolling a die works sometimes, too.

[Cephrir]

you line up those lynches like you mean it!

[Cephrir]

When sk has killed more mafia than town

Thanks bud

Thanks a lot

I was eager for information even though diamond was sinfully obvious town. My reaction was just me with a glimmer of hope that he'd flip scum.

[Cephrir]

When sk has killed more mafia than town

Thanks bud

Thanks a lot

I was eager for information even though diamond was sinfully obvious town. My reaction was just me with a glimmer of hope that he'd flip scum.

It'll be okay ceph. I will wk whatever stupid mislynch you guys wish to pursue today and when you don't listen for the fourth time, speed hammer them to shut you all the fuck up.

did you become scum overnight or something

[Cephrir]

VOTE: SnowStorm

[Cephrir]

It occurs to me that my memory of SnowStorm was as someone I had a hard time mislynching because even though his posts weren't always stellar, they WERE always town

That's not here

[Cephrir]

If you try to push a lynch on me for vca I will replace out

[Cephrir]

Naw it's more a "this feels eerily similar to the Wedding Invitational."

that was at grib

i don't think those things are similar though

[Cephrir]

I don't understand probability or scumhunting

This is how I feel about your list!

This is how I feel about it