Mini Normal 1829 - Game Over

[gigabyteTroubadour]

clear attempt

*when it was clear that

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Your entire argument about titus is that titus hates busing so I am scum because I did not vote titus.

yeah wait where is this coming from??

I was using that argument (Titus hates bussing) to say that I'M town because Titus isn't going to push her buddy the way she pushed you. You're completely irrelevant to that point??

[gigabyteTroubadour]

lmao

*the way she pushed me

It's 1 a.m. but if I'm going to have a quote war with karnos i should hop on a computer. sorry for the spam

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Me "bussing" Titus has nothing to do with Titus's scum meta, it's Titus "bussing" me that does. And the point isn't even meta, you never addressed what scum have to gain from a double bus that could very well risk their most important member.

Also stop misrepping my argument and saying it's 100% meta when it's not??

That is a meta argument. There is no other way you get town cred except but this insane theory that a titus alt is incapable of busing.

And I think I have been clear in my point: I'm not accusing you of exclusively using meta, I am accusing you of

selectively

using meta. Insofar as you claim titus is somehow completely incapable of playing against her meta, while simultaneously assuming I am playing against my scum!meta. It just doesn't add up if you are thinking logically from a town perspective.

So yeah, you aren't using 100% meta, LOL, of course not, because if you were you would be defeating your own argument. You are picking and choosing to use META where it fits your bias and ignoring it otherwise.

of course titus is capable of breaking her meta. but the burden of proof is on you to explain

why

she is breaking her meta, because I don't think she's going to break her meta just to break her meta. btw "so people can't meta her" isn't a valid answer, meta wouldn't be a thing if people can just deviate from it that easily

i don't think your bussing meta is that clearing for you anyway, Shadow_Step was a goner and you happily voted for him. Titus's lynch could have been stopped if Shadow and Thor voted for me, both of which were within the realm of possibility. I have only played one game with you and you're a relatively new player, you don't have as much of an established meta as Titus does. That's why I'm not clearing you for not telling me I should be suspecting someone else for no reason or because you haven't accused someone of being scum for misspelling their name (best scum argument i've seen ever btw).

i can't even argue with your argument because it's coming from faulty premises and makes too many assumptions. where am i saying that you are playing against your scum meta? yeah, i said you don't feel the same way you did in 646, but i have also said that i never extensively meta'd you so i don't know your actual meta. whenever i type these walls with you i feel like i've never said half of the shit you're telling me i did but i'm arguing with it anyway and it's just really frustrating because it's like you're trying to trap me with "gotcha!" kinda arguments on repeat.

anyway, i already knew that titus is not a busser before playing this game because she's a well-known player, it's not like i went and did research on this in order to get towncred (that i do deserve btw, even if someone else was pushing me that hard, i don't get how someone naturally comes to the conclusion that that was a double-bus). i didn't meta you at all because it never occurred to me that it was something I needed to do. i generally only meta players I find difficult to read, and you were pretty easy to read in 646 so i don't consider you as such. there isn't a selection even being made because that implies that i've dug up evidence that titus is not a busser and i'm conscientiously ignoring that you bus when in reality it's just something i've heard through the grapevines when i joined the site and that you're not the kind of player who has a meta like that

sorry these walls are a mess, i can't argue with this logically and it's 2 a.m., screw revision

[gigabyteTroubadour]

the point that the third scum has every incentive to stay alive (esstentially a godfather/mother, other two buddies are heavily suspected), making a bus D2 optimal play, is kind of important and why I'm still not really sure about Elyse

Seconding Michel in wanting opinions on Elyse and Kraska from Nero. Mostly Èlysè tho (lol @ my phone autofilling elyse that way for some reason)

On Shadow's meta, I don't really have anything on that. I will say, however, that Kraska reacting really negatively to Shadow's investigation claim D3 and then ME defending shadow and telling kraska to vote elsewhere really does not feel like scumbuddy interactions. especially because it was pre-guilty too. I should look back to D2, but I don't really remember if Elyse even questioned Shadow's investigation? Not that that is ultimately damning, of course...

karnos and elyse look equally suspect to me here tbqh

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i'm honestly leaning towards karnos

but idg why scum!karnos, who is scumread by everyone, doesn't decide to bus when he inevitably is the mafioso who has to make it to end game to win so?

but that hammer D1 was just really bad wrt the fact that two deadline wagons on scum were starting

[gigabyteTroubadour]

we are all ok betting the game on kraska and michel being town right

because we only have 2 lynches left, we win if scum is in {karnos, elyse}

this is knowing i am town btw, so

[gigabyteTroubadour]

oh i thought karnos was at l-1

VOTE: Karnos

L-1

[gigabyteTroubadour]

no not yet

if we're wrong then it'll be mylo

btw besides nero, is there anyone out of all of us you guys would be willing to treat as conftown in mylo? deciding whether or not to no lynch

[gigabyteTroubadour]

if this is wrong i'm feeling a nl tomorrow

[gigabyteTroubadour]

lmao ok kankies

p sure that's twilight trolling so

[gigabyteTroubadour]

are we nl'ing?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i feel like if we nl but discuss reads it might impact the nk

idk that's usually a negative up that's up to you guys

[gigabyteTroubadour]

if you think it's obvious who gets nk'd, then no lynching is terrible play

[gigabyteTroubadour]

aight

i'm in stats atm though so i can't really focus

i'll share my colored votecounts later and try a VCA... might be interesting now that we know karnos is town

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i can explain to elyse if people are ok with it (i.e, we don't nl in the end)

i'm kind of undecided but more in favor of going through MYLO

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I'm gonna try dgb's scumputer on the main wagons of days 1 and 2
I'm really dumb with excel tho so this will have to wait until monday

omg

i've always wanted to try scumputer, excel is like my forté

but i'm super busy too lol </3

although is this game big enough for scumputer

[gigabyteTroubadour]

lmao

i'm paranoid of you too but like

if you can't answer the question of why Titus decided to double bus when she almost never pushes her buddies as scum then i don't get why i'm suspected... we have to consider that the last mafiosa (or mafioso, if it's Michel) is most likely a PR not worth bussing at all too, and i'm the one who has had flipped scum on my wagon.

i'm still leaning town on you bc i think your defense of shadow/fluidity of opinions felt genuine and coming from a similar place as my own... that and the fact you were pushing Titus when you really could have believably joined, say, the maria wagon...

[gigabyteTroubadour]

note: kraska if you vote elyse, i can be conftown by not hammering

just for your fyi information if you want that gamble

personally i'm not taking it for you bc i'm a chicken

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Not hammering.

I'm town.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

also that means no lynching is officially awful

unless scum kraska has pocketed me

[gigabyteTroubadour]

can never be too sure

kinda busy irl so uh no scumhunting for a bit... we'll see if i need a V/LA

[gigabyteTroubadour]

will go into that when i have time, i think he's my best townread :s

[gigabyteTroubadour]

elyse I'm NOT the kind of person who is rash

Look at Open 646. I waffled the whole game and had shit reads past D1, and I hammered my townread for the win.

If you are town, it has to show. I promise. I'm going to do as much work as I can to make sure we win.

also this is the kind of thing i'm glad to be conftown while saying :///

[gigabyteTroubadour]

so uh

i did scumputer

and i think it's pretty useless... results are:

• Kraska77
  : 2.2
  
  MichelSableheart
  : 2.1
  
  Elyse
  : 1.8

Spoiler: Spreadsheet here

http://imgur.com/lvxTMlZ

i have to look more into this to be honest because while i get the math behind it i didn't expect kraska to be the one who ends up getting the highest score. i also would hate myself forever if i lynched kraska just because of this because it's pretty arbitrary (i think once i'm not overgamed i want to start doing a study on my own to test the validity of scumputer anyway...)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: kraska

L-1

this really does not look like a vote on a scumpartner

i don't know what a vote on a scumpartner looks like

but this and shadow's further interactions just seem like a really weird way to distance

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Did you roll scum kraska?

like this^ felt more like encouraging thor's push on kraska

with such little information in town's hands i think it benefits scum to encourage people to sort town before scum

i doubt shadow would have gotten much towncred from a scum!kraska lynch, too

[gigabyteTroubadour]

{MariaR, JarJarDrinks}
{Thornumbers, Nero Cain}
{kraskanumbers, gerryoat, I Am Innocent, karnos}
{Elyse, Blitzkrieg}
{Shadow_step}
{MichelSableheart}

transcend's reads for the most part are on point

there's a lot less motive for a team with kraska as scum to want him lynched, since kraska has to be the team member to make it to endgame (being the doctor and all)

If it's Michel, then transcend was scumreading 2/3 of the scumteam and nullreading the other. If it's Elyse, then it's an almost as good 1-scumread 2-nullreads. My reads weren't too different, but I had Michel as town and the wagon on me persisted... at least the scum-candidates were still interested, since JarJar unvoted and the wagon collapsed on itself.

So point is, scum!Elyse and scum!Michel should want my slot dead in the earlygame, and a lynch is an easy way to achieve that. Michel has more to gain from re-evaluating D2 because I strongly townread his slot and thus would keep it alive, yet he was still OK pushing my mislynch with Blitz.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Also, if Transcend thinks Michael is scummy, than no matter what Transcend's alignment, the reality is probably the opposite

this was probably in reference to Open 646, where transcend was scum and had really shitty reads

doesn't really make me want to town or scumread michel in particular

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Blitzkrieg, if you feel selective replying is worth pointing out, then why are you conveniently ignoring the wagon on you and the discussion it sparked?

^ also does not feel like a question you ask a partner

who tf needs to coach titus of all players... then again idk if michel knew that blitz was titus but still

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i'm pretty much going to post quotes that catch my eye so uh

prepare for thread bloating, but yes i agree with you there

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Really the fact that he was questioning stuff right out the gate like that is extremely town. I think there needs to be some scrutiny because A: It's MYLO, B: A lot of his questioning is directed towards Blitz, so if the wagon caught on he could get a lot of towncred for it. I find it a little weird that in the end, he opted to go for the Maria/Me route of scumhunting. As I read I'll double check if I think his switch felt genuine but I really remember liking his thought process.

Elyse, why Michel over Kraska?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Also:

Where the F did I say "I want to stay in RVS stage!" I'm saying we're still in it

Michael's first posts have been a load of bs and feels like

he's trying to get something rolling on town (ironic cause I'm doing the same thing)

Jarjar made one post and it wasn't a joking post it was a chainsaw lynch post that was god awful

VOTE: MariaR

Explain the bolded.

Vote: MariaR

hm.

he kind of dismissed that scumread of blitz pretty quickly and voted with her

i mean RVS (or AVS) is the part of the game where you have to throw shit at the wall and see what sticks... so him having super fluid reads isn't too out there, but this (and Maria's responses) look like what got him into that tunnel.

i think i want to hear more from Elyse. if elyse is town, she's pretty much the entire town right now because the game ends as soon as i vote for her.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: karnos

I will follow you for a bit Nero. Still want Maria's head but I think Transcend is town, so let's see what shakes loose.

VOTE: kraska

That's the one you were voting.

asdflhksadfhdkasljfh

what kind of... scum partner MIXES UP THE NAMES of their own partner w/ a townie.... oh my god i hope that it's not kraska

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Why do you think kraska is town?

I'll second this - I would rather lynch Elyse, but the Kraska push feels valid to me.

Do you think they are on the same team? Both are voting each other. While Elyse threw the L-1 vote at Maria, Kraska came crashing down on Elyse by attacking/voting her. I don't see the two aligned, and Elyse's play has been far scummier in my opinion.

PS - Someone attacked Kraska for having too many town reads/not being aggressive Day 1. I think having too many town reads is not how scum like to play, they like to keep their options open and allow for easy flip flopping later, so I respectfully disagree with that point.

Your tunnel on me sucks.

p-edit

no one's going to support a lynch on a mason d1

Agreed. No one is voting a mason as there are not masons to vote.

this is an interesting post. kraska, i'm going to assume 392 was a slip-up from blitz that confirmed you as town (for now) and ask you why you think Blitz ignores the actual discussion of the quote pyramid to agree with a p-edit? seems like kind of a strange interaction i can't sort

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i'm getting the feeling i'm confbiasing it's elyse all over again

best way to deal with this will probably be to take a step back and let her give us her perspective

[gigabyteTroubadour]

you have the excuse that fypov it's either michel or elyse

i have an extra person to sort so i gotta be more paranoid

[gigabyteTroubadour]

fhsjsjd
just in case you ARE scum i want to hear from elyse first

[gigabyteTroubadour]

kraska this is exactly why i lynched scum!Transcend in 646

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i'll consider voting once Elyse weighs in on Michel>Kraska

[gigabyteTroubadour]

that's... true...

but i still want to be sure

plus i can see you lolhammering so there's that

[gigabyteTroubadour]

take your time elyse

kind of having a rough time irl so uh not really engaged in any game here

[gigabyteTroubadour]

ok, at the 3 day mark i'm voting elyse if she does not respond to any of my questions

still not really convinced of michel scum and i'd like to know why Elyse is picking Michel over Kraska.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: elyse
@giga Hammeru hammeru

dsafasdfas

3 days 0 hours..... give elyse time </3

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Can you go into this if you have time?

Kraska and I picked out a few posts but Michel's interactions with Blitz were really strange for buddy interactions.

I also personally think that he fit the archetype of "misguided town" very well, his pushes on me felt genuine... Since Blitz was leading most of the push D2, I think scum!Michel would have approached the push a little differently.

His posts early game also show the most transparent thinking... I still think they're really genuine but I can feel Transcend, king of Genuine Posting^tm hitting me with a 2x4 for saying this so.

(i kinda think it might be michel though asdfads... the reason i was anti-no lynch in the beginning was because I thought Michel would die pretty much no matter what, and that scum!Michel kills me so it was pretty useless but asdfdsa)

@Michel, I don't think Transcend and Kraska are being IDENTICAL here, Kraska can actually work through the game and post things that make her read town/others read scum so she doesn't have to rely on AtE like Transcend had to in that game. read it as null.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Omg this buddying

"we"

Ok

i mean kraska and are are friends

buddies if you will

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i should get myself policy lynched in future games if it looks like i'll make it to mylo/lylo

dsafadsfads

no pls

I'm kind of at a standstill for discussion topics but I'm just not... super crazy about Elyse!scum. At the same time though I really can't see anything else.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

fuck it

elyse is still my scumread and i still think you're town so let's hammer test. i'm really sorry if it's kraska!scum but i was probably going to hammer you eventually.

kraska, if you're town, do NOT lolhammer.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: Elyse

don't breaku my heart

[gigabyteTroubadour]

OH THANK GOD

[gigabyteTroubadour]

yeah i'm pretty sure it's elyse then but just in case

@both non-confirmed townies, why are you town? serious question

[gigabyteTroubadour]

posting this many VCs feels like modsnark

i am currently metaing elyse to confirm her self-meta. i was hoping for in-game reasons but a meta request is fine.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

If I have to point out one moment where I feel I contributed to the town, I would have to point at my day 3 play. Not only did I realize there I was wrong about giga and adjust my reads accordingly, but I also feel I was pretty instrumental in getting shadow lynched.

^ this is the kind of answer i was expecting

but ty! (also I agree that your thought process looks like it's the most likely to come from a town perspective)

Elyse, if you can try to answer the question the same way, that would help

[gigabyteTroubadour]

If you look through my ISO I didn't really interact with scum at all (besides Michel, but you don't know that). Until this post. I wouldn't narrow down my lynch choices for the day to my two scumbuddies. It's just not reasonable.

It kind of is when there's an implied guilty on one of them (Shadow... come on, look at how is wagon formed: it was entirely town and the reasoning of most of the voters was extremely weak. definitely a wagon with a guilty around it and even i noticed it), and the other one was widely scumread...

Like I can believe that someone would bus so eagerly because we already know that the third mafia player already knew that they would have to play the "deep townie" or whatever it's called. like that they basically had to bus both of their buddies and hope that town has enough lynchbait and nightkill bait that you can survive lylo alone without raising eyebrows. i think michel and you both could have played that role, but you were a D1 wagon which means that there was enough suspicion on you that you really needed to bus... not so much Michel.

that's pretty much the biggest regarding your slot i think

that and also your reaction to mhsmith dying was ??? and i have no idea how to read it

although having mhsmith here would be really nice because he's good at lylo

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Also if Titus was my scumbuddy I'd totally be more invested in this game. I've always wanted to be scum with her.

i want to believe this though

i would die to be scumbuddies with titus too so i mean

[gigabyteTroubadour]

My reaction to mhsmith dying was just stupidity lol.

I also don't think that if I was set up to be the "deep townie", Shadow would fake a result on me. Seems unnecessary to potentially join us together like that.

hm...

almost forgot about that.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

UNVOTE: Elyse

she might be winning me over

i reread the later days and i'm feeling her less as a titus partner. might have to go into detail here so give me a second.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

OK, I didn't realize the deadline...

VOTE: Elyse

I'm really not sold, but this is still where I am. no lynching to give us more time (i.e. the mafia shoots me or kraska, other gamesolves) sounds dumb, so let's just end it.

Really sorry if I'm wrong.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

fushehdufjen

wp michel, really sorry elyse : (

also ftr @mhsmith I think NOT using your bodyguard was the optimal play. even though Nero was conf!town, the information we would have gotten from the kill after Nero would have been useful. plus we might have needed your town skillz to win

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Was pretty sure giga was town but i had no doubt that both of u were town. :p

what do you mean PRETTY SURE i played in your slot...

also i agree with mhsmith wrt to balance, vigs in small setups are really -ev and I think we ended up needing that second ml, even if it would have been wasted on Gerry.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

yeah iai is right about elyse lol :/

i really am personally not fond of short deadlines (i was asked to replace in, otherwise i would never have ), I probably would have realized that later if I didn't try to rush mylo

also thanks for hosting, chilledtea!! had lots of fun