Mini Normal 1983: Winter Wonderland [Endgame!]

[Hopkirk]

^^This is a perfect example of 'I've been supporting my buddy all game and need a scapegoat'

Why don't you want Rem tomorrow?

[Hopkirk]

PR equity?

[Hopkirk]

Not going to talk about mafia nightkill choices or prs. Was there anything other than that you wanted to discuss?

[Hopkirk]

I cased Sheep and had Sheep as hard scum back when people were mislynching Seph yesterday- not today.

[Hopkirk]

Rem locktown I changed after reading that game, not when prompted and criticised for it.

[Hopkirk]

Plus it wasn't 'locktown' as in 'confirmed town' it was 'locktown today'. Sheep and Flubber were(/are) preferences.

[Hopkirk]

sigh

fine with the lynch, vig i think goes to hopkirk regardless because i dont really like the way he's interacted around ucv and if he's town i need the reevaluation.

definitely have seen scum interact with partner lynches like this, and definitely can see scum interacting with mislynches like this. i dont think hop gets much cred out of this if it greens

{monkey, intern}
{sheep, n_m, moz, seph, rem}
{flubber, serg, bu} - null
{hopkirk, dykdw}

actually looking at this pile i want to see where rem is at again with intern likely being town now

I know hopkirks scum mea. if he was scum with me, he would probably be bussing me rn

UC would say that yes, I would bus.
I'd say, based on the game that made UC make that conclusion, I bus as a last resort. I'd voted my partner when the wagon started building on him, rather than started a wagon on him. This time, I had Sheep as scum before the wagon.

[Hopkirk]

NM is probably town here after looking at games.

Why is this, Hop?

Posting style doesn't resemble the scum games I looked at but does for the town one I looked at. Can't be really specific since it's style.

[Hopkirk]

His posting style varies more than I though.
I might be making bad conclusion due to sample size, but for one thing his jokes read as more forced (and there's more of them usually) in the scumgames I looked at than the town ones.

[Hopkirk]

Haven't metadived him and don't remember playing against scum Flubber. Based on what I can remember/refreshing my memory of Micro 747- as town a bit /less wordy/less direct while still putting out reads confidently.

[Hopkirk]

Sheep's Rem joke vote was different to the other two.

Kat, weigh in?

overwhelmed

friday is my free day and i fucked up some organization things so now i have to do team mafia stuff again

im paying attention i just need to actually think about the insight i give

i lean hop in hop/flubb btw still, i was watching village in the woods and some of the things hopkirk claims he did as scumhunting normally here as town were completely absent there so i kind of question hop's assertion it fits in his meta (when it wasnt even about meta in the first place, just how people generally think anyway)

What things?

[Hopkirk]

Mostly the “it feels like you are [doing scummy thing that you have to stretch what the person is saying to apply”] while talking to them and not voting them thing

Your questioning felt more town

I don't get what you mean here. My reasoning is more a stretch here? When? I've attacked pretty much everyone here at some point. My play changes when scumread without good reason.

[Hopkirk]

Oh, I don't do anything like that in VITW.

[Hopkirk]

I wanted to interact with you on that point, but you didn't respond before I went to sleep so I couldn't.
I also wanted a wagon because I wanted a wagon. Couldn't vote twice.

Game had moved on a lot/out of RVS when I got back so I just dropped what I'd been going for in RVS. It would have been pointless to continue on my RVS trajectory when stuff had happened.

[Hopkirk]

146, 147, 149, 151, 152, 155 are all catching up, and I vote at the end.
As shown here: ‘@Kat: Haven't caught up yet. Posting as I read.’ Should show my reads developed/changed post RVS.

I didn't think you were scummy? I wanted to push you and see what happened since it was RVS. I wasn't able to interact, but there was other stuff after that

[Hopkirk]

Nope.

[Hopkirk]

It's something to talk about.

[Hopkirk]

It was after a question so I think I wanted you to answer the question and explain your thoughts or something.

[Hopkirk]

I don't get the impression Sheep is really trying to scumhunt.

[Hopkirk]

Does 24 hours without posts mean we're ready to lynch?
@Monkey especially

[Hopkirk]

I forgot Rem needed replacement.
She seems like scum.

[Hopkirk]

And why do I say that as scum knowing that we're waiting on a replacement?

[Hopkirk]

Things there's no point saying as town or scum are NAI.

[Hopkirk]

Or, I could forget as either alignment.

[Hopkirk]

Why doesn't Sheep push town-Flubber at any point post D1?

[Hopkirk]

votes

The day 3 deadline is in

: (expired on 2018-02-02 16:40:59)

because if you're town you would want the replacement first before you try to push your luck with a premature lynch.

Do you think I think you're stupid?

[Hopkirk]

Flubb sheep me here

Nah. Seph doesn't crumble as scum.

Talk to me about kat. They were one of the largest proponents of the ucv wagon, which not only was town, but gave us a really bad transition into D2. In addition, even if you're town, their reasons for townreading you were often contrived or nonsensical (which is probably why they're giving you those pocketing feels)

Pedit serg's play isn't much different than ucv's play

^^this is a perfect example of "I bussed my buddy and my wincon means I have to make sure the gambit pays off"

Monkey, to answer your question, sheep is today's lynch, I would like to see hopkirk tomorrow, and then we'll have to get lucky on a lurker. As far as info you'd give on a flip, you've been considering so many different scum teams today on the vague basis of what "makes sense" that there's no convictions to look at and consider the angle of a genuine push from you.

This suspicion of Kat vanished and Kat shot to town too easily.

[Hopkirk]

Huh, just noticed Seph's wagon was probably 100% town.

[Hopkirk]

Oh. Sheep AND Serg were the first two votes on Flubber when he was being wagoned.
That explains why Sheep didn't move his vote.

[Hopkirk]

i think you're trying to fake it that you actually want to solve the game when you obviously just want the lynch. i think you're avoiding rem-slot ressurection.

so what is it?

I don't even understand why you're asking this question.
Townhop: 'I want to solve the game'
Scumhop: 'I want to solve the game'

You're implying I'm an idiot as scum who would try and push a gambit that has a 0% chance of success for no reason. For Sheep to get lynched there, you have to agree that Sheep should get lynched there. What possible reason could I have to think there's any chance you'd decide 'oh actually lets lolhammer instead of waiting for the replacement I've been waiting days for'. It's clearly a mistake since neither alignment has any incentive to say it.

[Hopkirk]

And if you can't work something like that out then it's a really good thing you're getting nightkilled before lylo (assuming the game doesn't end before lylo).

[Hopkirk]

Actually you might avoid a nightkill if you think I'm scum nvm.

[Hopkirk]

It would hide your online activity status for this session.

[Hopkirk]

That's pretty lucky since I was just guessing

[Hopkirk]

Also I'm not sure where I made some hard push that sheep was town or anything similar so saying I "supported" them is another reach

What post is this @?

[Hopkirk]

Hey Fire, what are your thoughts.

[Hopkirk]

Hey Fire, what are your thoughts.

My thoughts aren’t for sale.

But free sample thoughts are:
Ur probably scum
Katy is a nerd town
Human eating is also Town
Sheep is lolcat scum
Flub owes me a dollars and is likely Town
Rem is scum lurker

I agree with most of these. Why is Flubber town and Ur scum?

[Hopkirk]

Can you quote this post

[Hopkirk]

Can you quote this post

and before anyone does it, i don't mean do this

[Hopkirk]

^^This is a perfect example of 'I've been supporting my buddy all game and need a scapegoat'

Why don't you want Rem tomorrow?

Supporting/ignoring with a light townread vs flipping to a scumread based on a good read and meta without prompting.

[Hopkirk]

Dude, you can't act like supporting and ignoring are the same thing.

"good read" says nothing if you're scum, at which case you'd be more equipped to make a correct scum case than town.

It's really weird you aren't brining up the fact that you objectively didn't 'support' Sheep.

[Hopkirk]

Like I'm really clearly misrepping you there and before, but you aren't even recognising that.

[Hopkirk]

Town Flubber should be pointing out that he made attacks on Sheep all D1 but didn't support him. Scum Flubber attacks me on points that can't be disproven, i.e. 'oh you scumread scum, you must have been bussing lol' while not accepting the timing/motivation makes it not a bus.

[Hopkirk]

I wonder why they haven't been at each others' throat hoping to get each other lynched as intensely as I imagined.

Because everyone I townread seems to scumread me and doesn't seem to have even reisod either of us.

[Hopkirk]

Also I'm not sure where I made some hard push that sheep was town or anything similar so saying I "supported" them is another reach

There's a difference between 'I didn't make a hard push for town Sheep' and 'What the fuck are you talking about Hopkirk, I scumread Sheep and never said I had reason to townread him'.

[Hopkirk]

You also never talk to sheep. You just talk about and around Sheep. You weren't trying to interact with him.

[Hopkirk]

Sheep's vote on me for a "bad entrance" after calling the votes on my wagon opportunistic is hypocritical and incredibly careless, at the very least.

Last time I played with Sephiroph, they were scum. I recall them having a better entrance there than they do here.

---

Pedit:

I am saying UCV is posturing by acting in a way that on the surface, looks like they are town, but has a true intent of deceiving others wrt to their alignment. Does that clarify?

Uhhh, you can't scumhunt without expressing an opinion. If you could, there would be an objective way to find scum.

There's two issues with UCV's belief. 1) It's obvious enough that it can typically go without saying (and this

may

lead to sheep being scum too, but I am not a fan of pre flip associatives), and 2) they offered nothing after their gripe with rvs to, yakno, actually end rvs. This makes it more likely that they are faking their intent to end rvs early.

sheep, you're saying a lot of things but I don't see any good conclusions coming out of them.

Who is scum?

You start by 'attacking' around him- you express a scumread on him then do literally nothing to develop it or interact with him. If you really scumread him you'd want to interact with him.

It's Flubb and Hopkirk, but Hopkirk-Buj does not make sense. So it could be sheep, as the third partner. Quote this in end game.

Two of your scum reads are based on you saying players wrong, which doesn't imply scum (but is very conveniently, a way to buff your post count).

You literally just pulled that sheep read out of your ass, and your last mention of them was being the second most town in the game.

On top of the fact that you've made shit "gambits" and mined exactly zero information from them, have nothing to say about this being called out, and are still a policy lynch at worst because of it.

Seph, talk to me about HUM going from sheep being high town to part of the scum team(???)

HUM, you do not mention sheep

at fucking all

from [p]457[/p] till your "scumteam." Fuck off with your nonsense.

Or better yet, keep digging a shallow grave! You don't get to say sheep is being suspicious and then put him at the top of your town list

i also dont like how you're defending hopkirk

i think the perspective is coming from someone who isn't town. just because it's not written in the wiki, doesn't mean it's not valid.

also i think your defense is not coming from someone who is town. even if hopkirk is town here.

tune down your aggressiveness because it's kind of obvious that you're faking it

So how did you change from sheep scum to sheep town?

Retorting your sarcasm with snark isn't fake aggression.

Maybe you should have called it "synthetic" instead???

And you should work harder on having your pants around your ankles with your sheep read before you call my progressions off the wall

And honestly, thinking that HUM's trajectory on his sheep read is willful ignorance is best.

Multiple posts in response to HeM's read change on Sheep that don't align with your alleged read of Sheep. No actual consideration of anything Sheep has said despite 5 posts about him.

pagetop

If you spent half as much time scumhunting as you do hunting for pagetops I would probably town read you. Just saying.

I said something similar to this before, but at the time only one one of sheep's reads was questionable. What do you think has players pegging sheep as obvtown?

Again people were trying to derail the Bu wagon right before it got to lynch. Will be taking a good hard look at those people if Bu flips scum.

In fact...

dayvig: sheep

Dude...

You are like...a *lot* better than this

Seph misrepping sheep is kinda shitty but I've also had a decent town read on them so meh

Talking about Sheep. Doesn't mention Sheep or anything Sheep has done.

no like unless you want to see how other people react to your claim

because if you fake a green on someone you dont get anything useful out of the person you fake it on?
like the gambit seems useless imo

Well, if fb was scum, the correct mylo gambit is a, guilty on a townie

Over 2000 posts in, this is the second time you quoted anything Sheep said. The first was in response to Sheep asking about hydraing.

There's no discussion OF Sheep and no discussion WITH Sheep. It's all discussion AROUND Sheep.

[Hopkirk]

Sheep is townread because his posting is pretty uncontroversial. I read his iso. It’s uncontroversial because its passive. It’s commentary. There isn’t a single point where I can see him saying something that has a direct impact on the game other than the UC vote.

Sheep consistently scumreads and votes Flubber. He switches to UC. He townreads Flubber shortly afterward. This is not explained. In 1361, Sheep reads Flubber as more town than his prior townblock. Maybe equal to if I'm misreading it, but the point stands either way. I don’t follow his thought process here. Nobody seems to care.
Side point: someone disliked me saying ‘Flubber town’. I think it was either Kat or HeM. Whoever it was didn’t comment on Sheep’s flip on Flubber here. Doesn’t mean partners. It means Sheep is flying under the radar.

I hate Sheep’s comment about Moz having a strong meta read on me. He had no reason to assume that. It felt like a way to attack me by proxy. Sheep’s tone is inconsistent on me across the game. If mafia killed Moz, and Intern killed Bu, then the kill could make it look like I killed Moz. Sheep only sorting Bu overnight feels convenient when he seemed more uncertain on me. I get a general sense he’s positioning from this, and from the rest of his play.

@Intern: who did you vig?


In 1551, I feel like Sheep is trying to present his UC read as stronger than it was.

He voted in 803 because UC/DYK was avoiding the thread.
1054 is consistent. He's pushing for content. He'll unvote if UC acts town.
He switches to a scumread for DYK not producing content. DYK had clearly not fully caught up by this point. Scumreading DYK for avoiding the thread and not producing reads, then hammering while he's presenting reads, doesn't make sense.

Sheep says now, in 1551 that he scumread UCV for not reading the thread. He commented about UCV not reading the thread in the 803/1054 period, where UCV was avoiding the thread and hadn't posted. At this point, Sheep was willing to not vote UCV if there was town content from him or the slot. This doesn't match what Sheep is saying today- that he had a hard scumread from UCV avoiding the thread. The hard scumread develops after UCV came back. I feel like Sheep is engaging in revisionism today.

Decided to take the V/LA off since there shouldn't be a 48 hour period where I can't post now. Still somewhat limited access- especially thursday, but I can post.

Sheep and Flubber are solid scumreads.

I'm going to try and look at Kat again now.

Lets lynch Sheep/Flubber tomorrow.

'Consensus Sheep was town'
I made a case on Sheep and wanted to lynch you to. Everyone ignored it in favour of mislynching Seph for reasons I still don't get.

[Hopkirk]

2659 is everyone mention you have of Sheep before today

[Hopkirk]

He seemed obv town all game, like I said.

[Hopkirk]

No. I cannot explain that read in a short narrative prose without quotes.
Obv town is too strong, but he was still one of my strongest three townreads. It was mainly tone, thought process, and being pretty much the only one with a legitimate looking read on me.

[Hopkirk]

Oh wow, a scumread based on me misreading something. Are you trying to say I held onto that? Thats dumber than me misreading in the first place.

And then we have a minor suspicion that sheep cleared up in their next response (the one you didn't quote because...reasons)

I still stand by going from top town to scum to be a valid scum tell. I don't know why that has to mirror my read on sheep.

Sephiroph is better than shitty dayvig reaction tests. I'm pretty sure saying seph was misrepping sheep means I read what sheep was saying, and concluded that Seph did not recollect it correctly. Unless you're going to make that same strange argument monkey made about being too consistent == scum.

Honestly, I could respond to your points all day. They all retract from the main (and most important point).

you could make the case on me you're making for every player in the game sans yourself and sephiroph.

There's a massive difference between how other people townread Sheep and how you did. Kat/Monkey for example actually interacted with Sheep. You never try to interact with Sheep or develop your read. You don't even speak to him about anything game related.

[Hopkirk]

That's clearly not WHY I scumread you, in case you didn't notice I've been saying it non stop for a while now.

[Hopkirk]

I'm only like 65% on you being scum though.

[Hopkirk]

Actually 75.

[Hopkirk]

I am for just lynching.
Not sure anything can change my mind rn

Then there's no point stalling for the sake of it.

VOTE: Rem
L1.

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Sheep

[Hopkirk]

I was strong townreading sheep though, he was the widely townread scum all game and him scumclaiming is really fucking weird because I was honestly planning on lynching him last.

Hop has always been my top scumread, I've been widely townread all game and I was only a non-factor D2 because I can't stand toxicity in gamestates.

pedit: exactly. sheep is just obvtown here tbh

Maybe you should have tried to lynch me instead of driving two mislynches then?
I don't see how town can be this oblivious to their behaviour.

[Hopkirk]

Don't blame me, I was happy to and am still happy to hammer/vote him.

[Hopkirk]

For the entire game, most of the game has scumread me and made no attempt to actually lynch me. Not just Sheep.

Kat/HeM have basically the same trajectories on me as Math is saying Sheep did which makes his Sheep/Hopkirk interactions case make no sense.
Flubber/Not_Mafia had unexplained scumreads that they didn't try and push.
Buj/Moz could have voted me but were flipping constantly and died n1. The Moz kill makes no sense unless scum want to make me look bad with it.
Seph and UC- the lynches- were the only ones defending me.
From my perspective, scum have been setting things up to lynch me in a lylo situation all game- systematically removing the people who defend me, light pushing, but avoiding lynching me while not lynching me.
Thinking out loud.
Kat/HeM could have ended the game so shouldn't be.
Fire/NM are basically confirmed town as there's no incentive for them not to attack me today if scum after setting me up.
Sheep is scum.
2 scum withing (Rem, Fluuber, Kat, HeM) with HeM/Kat as not together. Confirms 1-2 scum within Rem/Flubber.
If Flubber town is HeM mafia possible?

[Hopkirk]

Dino's posting today is asking for support from Kat/HeM.
Dino scum makes Flubber scum more likely.
Is Flubber/Kat or Hem/Flubber possible?
Hem/Flubber isn't because they could have hammered Dino.
What about Kat/Flubber? If not Dino is confirmed. Need to check online times.

[Hopkirk]

Kat/Flubber/Sheep is the only scumteam that doesn't contain Dino.

[Hopkirk]

Because Hopkirk/Sheep have control of the game?

[Hopkirk]

Had*

[Hopkirk]

Not convinced on Flubber scum.

VOTE: Math
Either scum or we lose anyway with him in a lylo, so lets take the loss before lylo if it's coming.

[Hopkirk]

Because town like being falsely accused all game and won't react angrily.

[Hopkirk]

I could respond but why bother at this point.

[Hopkirk]

It's just stalling at this point.

[Hopkirk]

If everyone scumeads me (everyone says they do) can we just lynch me here rather than D4 or D5?

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Hopkirk

3 of Sheep/Math/Kat/Flubber.

[Hopkirk]

Just vote me if you're sure I'm scum.

[Hopkirk]

mafia has already won given literally every player here is scumreading me
VOTE: Math

[Hopkirk]

I don't see NM/Fire being the scumteam, so this is scum or endgame.
Either way is equally good at this point.

[Hopkirk]

Voting Math off first means that if we're wrong about Math then the game ends instead of being meaninglessly extended.
Voting Sheep first just means we have to wait another 2-3 days before knowing if Math is scum.
Voting Sheep off first doesn't provide any real benefit.

[Hopkirk]

Is there any reason it can't be Fire/NM/Sheep here?

[Hopkirk]

UNVOTE: Math

Might want to switch my prediction here.

[Hopkirk]

Actually, everything seems to fit for this.

[Hopkirk]

Especially Fire's fakeclaim.

[Hopkirk]

Not_mafia not voting MathDino there is making me reevaluate.

[Hopkirk]

Looks at VCs and this makes the most sense of any team I've considered.
It really explains the game.

[Hopkirk]

This makes so much sense.

[Hopkirk]

Wow. There isn't a single post in any of their isos (before mid today) that makes me think this isn't likely.

[Hopkirk]

Especially Fire's fakeclaim.

Please go over scum motivation here

Well you had your partner NM as conf.town, you had Sheep in your lynchpool but as a preference after me/Flubber in lylo, and its lylo so you only need one mislynch.
The only reason it didn't work out is because (HeM I think) called you out on it not making sense.
If it worked you won.

[Hopkirk]

@Flubber: Forget that, you're conf.town to me now.

[Hopkirk]

Especially Fire's fakeclaim.

Please go over scum motivation here

Well you had your partner NM as conf.town, you had Sheep in your lynchpool but as a preference after me/Flubber in lylo, and its lylo so you only need one mislynch.
The only reason it didn't work out is because (HeM I think) called you out on it not making sense.
If it worked you won.

This doesn’t make sense

How doesn't it make sense. You faked a pr and pushed for a lynch on me or Flubber. You 'cleared' one partner and put the other in your POE pool while saying you didn't want to lynch them. You intended to use the fakeclaim to lynch town and win.

[Hopkirk]

There are no posts were Sheep/Fire/NM/Serg make legitiamate attacks on each other.
It's 100% mutual ignoring and/or light scumreads that don't go anywhere.

[Hopkirk]

You only dropped the pr fakeclaim when you were called out on it.

[Hopkirk]

How doesn't it make sense. You faked a pr and pushed for a lynch on me or Flubber. You 'cleared' one partner and put the other in your POE pool while saying you didn't want to lynch them. You intended to use the fakeclaim to lynch town and win.

It doesn’t make sense because sheep was my primary scumread and one I was pushing for a lynch.
I was sorting last scum between u and flub and wasn’t going to lynch between u two the day
Ftr I think flub is town between u two because ur stuff doesn’t make sense and ur putting two Town in ur scum team pile

No. You claimed and said you wanted to lynch within Flubber/Sheep/Rem/Hopkirk. You said your preference was Fluuber, you'd pushed me before so i was clearly 2nd, and you hadn't attacked Sheep before that.
You switched to voting Sheep AFTER your fakeclaim was called out.

[Hopkirk]

You explained it after you were called out. Not saying 'it was a gambit' after it's been called out is literally a scumclaim.

[Hopkirk]

Seriously- you can't be telling me that Scum-Fire just concedes after he's called out if he's fakeclaiming and gets called out.

[Hopkirk]

Flub, rem, sheep and hopkirk

Leaning towards flub right now
He was my second choice for chekc

Your POE pool, and the first time you even mention Sheep

[Hopkirk]

There's no reaching. I've become enlightened.

[Hopkirk]

Consider what I'm saying. Look through the isos. Everything fits. Everything. EVERYTHING

[Hopkirk]

I didn't see it before, but it's so obvious now.

[Hopkirk]

If NM had voted Math then I probably wouldn't have realized, I was too irritated with this game. But he didn't. He avoiding voting Math because his two partners were already there.

[Hopkirk]

post-game is going to be glorious.

[Hopkirk]

Or town might actually have a chance to win if they look through everything.

[Hopkirk]

Kat/Flubber/HeM isn't the scumteam because Math didn't die. None of them can be scum because I just caught it.
I was wrong to doubt Math and Flubber's faithfulness to the town.

[Hopkirk]

A whole team that's been active lurking just came to discredit me at once.
Lo, these challenges are vast, but I will overcome.

[Hopkirk]

Oh btw, Moz died because the scumteam were textbook vig candidates.

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Not_mafia

[Hopkirk]

Hey Math, why isn't Fire scum with NM/Sheep here?

[Hopkirk]

Flubber, consider the truth.

[Hopkirk]

So with all of these "confirmations" it should probably be noted that a 3p quickhammer is extremely difficult to coordinate

Especially when I'm posting every twenty seconds.

[Hopkirk]

Go read my case on sheep not being scum with Fire. sheep's attitude toward the two of their slots has been wildly different.

It's hard for me to prove that to a theoretical town-you because the case is based around sheep treating you and N_M similarly, and Flubber and Fire similarly.

sheep was setting them up for mislynch, not you.

1- Why are you positive Sheep would treat him scumteam the same?
2- I disagree that they're as different as you are saying. Sheep makes light/meaingless comments on both and essential null reads both.

[Hopkirk]

Also @Dino: Fire/Ser/NM are never under any pressure. Sheep is free to say what he likes about them since nobody is paying attention to those slots given the much bigger issues going on. What he does say is minor at best.

[Hopkirk]

Hey Monket, just take a quick look at how well Sergfire, Sheep, NM matches up on the votecounts.

[Hopkirk]

Monkey^*

[Hopkirk]

Oh btw, Moz died because the scumteam were textbook vig candidates.

Didn’t moz have u as vig shot

I just got Moz's role really mixed up there with Intern.

[Hopkirk]

This is actually the first time I've actually been happy with how this game has been going.

[Hopkirk]

Like, from every point after I logged out when it was still P2 RVS it's just been wading through muck.

Shepp. NM. Fire.

[Hopkirk]

It feels good to gamesolve.

[Hopkirk]

Did you look through VCs?

[Hopkirk]

^screw you sheep.

[Hopkirk]

Hang on, I'm the one who would have shot Intern N1 if i was scum.

[Hopkirk]

@Dino: thoughts on this?

Go read my case on sheep not being scum with Fire. sheep's attitude toward the two of their slots has been wildly different.

It's hard for me to prove that to a theoretical town-you because the case is based around sheep treating you and N_M similarly, and Flubber and Fire similarly.

sheep was setting them up for mislynch, not you.

1- Why are you positive Sheep would treat him scumteam the same?
2- I disagree that they're as different as you are saying. Sheep makes light/meaingless comments on both and essential null reads both.

Also @Dino: Fire/Ser/NM are never under any pressure. Sheep is free to say what he likes about them since nobody is paying attention to those slots given the much bigger issues going on. What he does say is minor at best.

[Hopkirk]

There is no town motivation from Fire or Serg.

[Hopkirk]

Serg makes minor pushes at 5 confirmed town (from both our perspectives), ignores NM/Sheep, and subs out.

[Hopkirk]

I'm not reading this based off of either ISO because I recognise that I'm barely able to read them. I'm solving this based on sheep's scumclaim and ISO.

Why would you only consider how Sheep treats them but not how they treat Sheep...

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@Kat: btw I sleep normal hours in GMT/

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@Dino: thoughts on this?

Go read my case on sheep not being scum with Fire. sheep's attitude toward the two of their slots has been wildly different.

It's hard for me to prove that to a theoretical town-you because the case is based around sheep treating you and N_M similarly, and Flubber and Fire similarly.

sheep was setting them up for mislynch, not you.

1- Why are you positive Sheep would treat him scumteam the same?
2- I disagree that they're as different as you are saying. Sheep makes light/meaingless comments on both and essential null reads both.

Also @Dino: Fire/Ser/NM are never under any pressure. Sheep is free to say what he likes about them since nobody is paying attention to those slots given the much bigger issues going on. What he does say is minor at best.

I feel like you're not engaging with me because you're conf.biased here. You haven't explained why Scum-Sheep needs to treat his partners in a specific way when they're not under any suspicious all game. He has no incentive to do that.

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Sleeping.

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lol

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Thanks for hosting North.
We didn't lynch confirmed scum since we wanted the game to end faster.

I'm happy with my play this game.
Cases on Sheep and Flubber were both right. I think I'd have caught onto Fire's obvscum claim earlier if I wasn't being threatened so hard.
Was still like 50-50 on Flubber/NM at the end after realizing Fire was scum, but it had already been established that Flubber wasn't get lynched before me, so had to compromise.

Shame nobody was willing to reread Flubber when I cased him D2 or Fire today. I should have pushed Flubber harder, but I get bitter when scumread without good reason. Need to work on dealing with that, but a lot of people here need to actually lay out cases on people rather than calling them (me) scum and not explaining why they thought that. Math was the only person I could understand scumreading me at the end.

I really want to know what Moz was thinking with the meta. It very clearly wasn't valid.

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I feel a bit too paranoid as well since the mafia QT has nothing about trying to mislynch me.
Kat was also obv-town that I was suspicious of for too long based on her read on me. Should probably try and scumread scumreads on me less.

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Bujaber had some really good reads in the dead thread. Combined with him being cop we would have had a much better shot at winning if he didn't get shot.
@Moz: I'm intentionally trying different styles at the moment like North said, but the GI game you were using meta from was definitely not valid.

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Disagree on conf scum lynch tbh

Like I don't think that was a winnable position regardless of what we did

Imagine if i came out of the gate arguing fire flubber scumteam

I'd have definitely voted for fire. He was my preference today, but nobody scumread him so it wasn't possible. Though I'd expect people would just lynch you or me in that scenario and one of us would been forced to compromise on the other.
If it worked then Lylo would probably have been me/Flubber/NM where I think there's a chance of a win.

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Realistically we no lynch at that point rather than lynching right away, so there's two kills rather than just one. Depends who scum go for. Plus gives NM potential results.

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No lynch after lynching Sheep that is^

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Depends how Kat/Monkey would react to no nightkills there. A draw might have been more attractive than hoping the town won the lylo (after assuming town lynches me at 5).

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Am I the only one thinking how funny it would be if HEM died and flipped VT?

The talk on HeM's ultimatum reminds me of this.