Mini 2006: Scummer in this game UPick GAME OVER

[OnTheMark]

Honestly we can just mislynch me and be done with it

I kinda lack the desire to reread this because it means I have to reread a ton of toxicity when I barely am trying to avoid crying in a ball of tears at work

[OnTheMark]

Wait that is anti win con. :/

So I guess still lovebird but I am gonna have to be lynched eventually.

[OnTheMark]

mathblade, now is the time to actually go and explain the mariaR read
if anyone in this game can confidently meta her then imma need that pretty soonish

without locking her out of the lynchpool, i'm thinkin
Lovebird --> MariaR --> Kokichi --> OTM --> Nahdia --> [REDACTED]

She townread me hard right after I sent the message to LLD and started defending me

I thought she saw my message to LLD and was a message snoop.

[OnTheMark]

mathblade, now is the time to actually go and explain the mariaR read
if anyone in this game can confidently meta her then imma need that pretty soonish

without locking her out of the lynchpool, i'm thinkin
Lovebird --> MariaR --> Kokichi --> OTM --> Nahdia --> [REDACTED]

I am thinking Lovebird —> Nahdia is Lovebird is red

I agree with that if Lovebird is town though.

[OnTheMark]

...that is a scum role to have (at best it's an NAI role)

like if she's scum and is planning on claiming that role, of course she's going to play it as townish as possible

Role isn’t the same thing as alignment
Otherwise I would be scum for having compulsive ascetic.

I know I am not scum.

[OnTheMark]

so why exactly are you townreading maria for something that she could EASILY fake?

Because MariaR fakes with extreme AtE when poked and prodded

Her sinking is more a genuine desire to not read or blaze

Not scum motivated.

[OnTheMark]

Mastina and Nico just happen to be the scum ones.

Except I proved by the wiki that Scum Masons, as in, "you are confirmed to be of the same alignment", is not a thing, and you never provided a counter to that, so.

Can you not continue to harp on this?

I already said my world view was based on me being a counter claim to you and two mason claims and that your claim tree got sketchier and sketchier as we moved along.

Scum masons IS a thing and I have played with that before.

I still maintain that I had a genuine belief.

Continuing to harp on that now that someone countered doesn’t change the fact I had a genuine belief.

[OnTheMark]

Hey lovebird.

What is your take on recent events?

[OnTheMark]

^This is not a townpost

Couldn’t agree more.

[OnTheMark]

Actually, I'm getting cold feet on Lovebird.

Her story checks out. I ISOed her and beeboy to show that she softed or claimed Masons first, but she comes off as kind of confused but receptive when he says it. Even when pressed, she never actually confirms the masonry, but rather says it isn't pro-Town to talk about it.

That...actually kind of checks out as her having a strong TR (which he was) fake Masons with her. She doesn't want to blow up his spot, but also doesn't want to get trapped in the claim.

I mean, it'd be really easy to lynch Lovebird for this, but beeboy was the aggressor in this gambit. He even talked wistfully early in the thread about faking a Mason claim some time ago.

VOTE: Kokichi

This is what I'd like. Table the Lovebird/Beeboy mess for now.

Not a chance in hell.

I refuse to believe that lovebird is town when the mason claim only caused pages and pages of headaches.

[OnTheMark]

Why is it even me that people focus on when I didn't even do the claim?

Because you never rescinded it. You saw it and just let it go. Even after beeboy doubled down.

What town player believes this is acceptable?

[OnTheMark]

Why is it even me that people focus on when I didn't even do the claim?

Because you never rescinded it. You saw it and just let it go. Even after beeboy doubled down.

What town player believes this is acceptable?

1) It want me who claimed in first place. I never even said once I'm mason
2) I thought beeboy's town anyways so it doesn't matter. Other people even recognized this


Idk where your scumread comes from. I get you're upset he fakeclaimed but I never asked for this

Yes it matters.

When I tunnel someone who is very much likely town believing I have a fucking counter claim it matters.

When I demonstrate 4 masons impossible and therefore Mastina scum, and you don’t back off it flipping matters.

You’re intentionally deceiving town based on a belief if you’re town and if you’re scum it’s to blatantly put me and Mastina and Nico at odds.

[OnTheMark]

What do you think scenario is, that I'm scum with beeboy? Doesn't make sense

Yes and it does.

[OnTheMark]

What do you think scenario is, that I'm scum with beeboy? Doesn't make sense

Yes and it does.

Pedit you’re right I wasn’t.

I was working off a summary that you and Beeboy were masons.

[OnTheMark]

What do you think scenario is, that I'm scum with beeboy? Doesn't make sense

Yes and it does.

Why does Nadia retract claim if we're scum

Why does bee claim in first place if we're scum?

Because Nahdia would realize we would be copping you not the godfather as beeboy claimed.

Bee claims for the credit and to get Wisdom and Mastina to work against each other. Which was working.

[OnTheMark]

Also, my role is now completrly useless Dino says and does nothing but actually confirm that Nico/mastina are now masons so like... I don't understand why that doubt is still there

Because it’s mastina. That’s why.

If you’re town at least confirm Mastina is a mason for my sanity please.

Then afterward check people for lolz or do nothing.

[OnTheMark]

UNVOTE:

why did no one tell me that beeboy has an elli-tell on lovebird

Because that isn’t a thing.

Hey guys. I have a tell on Cheetory. I think he’s the mod. Don’t tell anyone. It will be our secret.

Nahdia and lovebird are just scum.

[OnTheMark]

I had an elli-tell on Lovebird before I outed it to her. It's entirely a thing.

If beeboy is town, do you agree that Lovebird is town?

No.

I don’t believe in elli tell.

The elli tell in my experience is just who elli likes or who does what elli expects. The “tell” has almost never read me right and people take pride in fooling machines. So on principle no.

Unless it’s 100% right it’s not a tell.

[OnTheMark]

And if it would be a tell it would be banned for general use if it was correct and viable.

So if you think Beeboy and lovebird are town cook up a mason gambit specifically to manipulate the situation prove your reasons other than elli tell. Because I can’t think of a single town reason to do that.

[OnTheMark]

Okay.
VOTE: OnTheMark

You're a slot under heavy paranoia and that's currently stopping us from solving the game.

If you were still Wisdom, I'd let it be. But if you're not willing to help us on PoE by going with the 99% chance instead of the Ben Affleck 1% = absolute certainty, this is a policy lynch that needs to happen.

I am not stopping you from solving the game at all.

I am helping with PoE. It is a rather simple PoE.

They claimed masons. I gave time to rescind if it was a joke. Beeboy didn’t take it. Nahdia rescinded.

They are scum.

I refuse to bow down to some machine because I program them for a living. If Mafiascum allowed betting I would bet you something I could make it think I was scum when I am not. Just because I don’t agree doesn’t mean I am “preventing PoE”. And it doesn’t mean I am “stopping you from solving the game”

I just think Nahdia and lovebird are scum.

[OnTheMark]

Okay.
VOTE: OnTheMark

You're a slot under heavy paranoia and that's currently stopping us from solving the game.

If you were still Wisdom, I'd let it be. But if you're not willing to help us on PoE by going with the 99% chance instead of the Ben Affleck 1% = absolute certainty, this is a policy lynch that needs to happen.

And lol at Nahdia/lovebird 99% town. That is clearly a figure pulled out of your own ass.

You don’t fake claim masons ever as any alignment because it is a scumclaim. That is the 99%.

[OnTheMark]

Because at that point even if you have a town role PM you are a scum beard.

I literally spent pages grilling Mastina and Nico because of their shit. So no. They need to die. Today. Just as everyone was saying. The lying pair needs to eat rope.

[OnTheMark]

"Elli-tell" doesn't mean beeboy had a program go and find Lovebird's alignment 100%. It means beeboy, using Elli's methods, found something that can sort Lovebird's alignment 100% of the time. Given that I have already found Lovebird fairly easily readable by meta (this game excluded because I literally wasn't present), it's not a jump to say that such a tell probably exists.

I already had a tell on her before

.

The conditional I'm proposing is SOLELY
Town-beeboy --> Town Lovebird
It's unreasonable to ever assume otherwise. You will be wrong most of the time.

I accept that beeboy could be scum. But if he's scum, it's not because he decided he had Lovebird as 100% town. What he should've done was claim a cop-inno or a lie-detector-inno on Lovebird, rather than claiming masons. That's behind us.

I'd policy lynch beeboy if I could but it defeats the purpose when he's not around to do that. As long as Nahdia agrees that from her POV, Lovebird is locktown, I don't have a problem with that slot as much as I have a problem with yours.

Elli’s methods are his program lol.

Ellibereth sucks at reading me and is swingy as fuck. Sometimes he is right sometimes not even with his program.

And no he should just truth tell. There is no way there were 4 masons in the setup. And I was right. He should have immediately rescinded. I cannot see that pair as town and when lovebird who has been doing fuck all flips scum you are gonna be next for trying to sort lovebird getting the fake that you said made them scum then calling them town for it because of a player not in the game.

“Hey look I have an Ellibereth town on dino he is scum!” (Half hearted joke obvs)

[OnTheMark]

Math ever since you joined (and honestly since 10 pages before Wisdom rep'd out) your slot has been playing this game purely emotionally instead of actually thinking through this shit.

If the game or players are pissing you off physically, you can replace out. It's cool, whatever.

But I'm not going to hold other players accountable for your actions. Literally you trying to "help" me catch up ended up being hilariously anti-town.

Don't be Derpy Hooves. Don't scumhunt prescriptively. The fact is that people DO fakeclaim masons.

And every time they are scum more often than not or scum adjacent I gotta go.

[OnTheMark]

You're dodging the question of "If beeboy is town, is Lovebird also town?"

End of the day, that conditional is what's gonna solve the game.

MOMOMEN town --> Cheeky/Dino town (this is part of why I knew Cheeky was town before replacing in)
Dino town --> Not_Mafia town (RedFlavor is my #2 easiest to read player next to Creature)

beeboy town --> Lovebird town (by Elli-tell)

and mastina <--> NicoRobin town

Read all remaining and we win.

I am not dodging the question.

I already said I don’t buy that premise.

You said before you didn’t realize Cheeky was in the game you lying then or now?

And I don’t trust beeboy’s reads. Even if Beeboy is town I don’t believe in Elli town. I destroyed Elli tells and you’re all “I don’t get it” rather than just fucking comprehend it.

If I ever die and lovebird isn’t dead you lynch them immediately

[OnTheMark]

I'm willing to lynch in Wisdom, Mom, LLD today. I think Yume and mastina will self-resolve as time goes on. Tbh I think there's a possibility of a mastina/eddie scum team rereading early today. It would make sense for Eddie to claim then mastina to say it validates the scumminess of her own claim, then for mastina to give eddie the pro-scum inventions for distribution. I could be missing something there. Will relook and case it.

she changed her mind on momrangal later on (and randomly tunneled redflavor so wtf) but i am predisposed to cherrypicking the parts that i like

Lynchpool currently:
Momrangal
OTM
MariaR
Kokichi

lovebird is not playing her towngame as far as i'm seeing, but masons rarely play their towngame so wtf do i know

i need people with solid meta knowledge on nicorobin

The bolded is you.

Elli is not in this game. His methods are not here. His methods are a program and word choice. Easy as fuck to fool. Especially if you never post. Yes Elli has “good” games but he has bad ones. Just like everyone else.

I could literally do exactly what Ellibereth does and get a scum on Lovebirf right now. Elli tell is has and will be a joke to me.

[OnTheMark]

How does "Elli-tells don't work on Lovebird" follow from "Elli-tells don't work on Mathblade"???

I don't give a fuck if you don't buy that premise.

And I said that I didn't realise Cheeky was in the game before her name popped up on replacement queue. When it did, I read her ISO and the events leading to her replace-out. You didn't seem to mind me "lying" about it when I got in a spat with LLD. But now you're dredging it up because I'm not playing friendly with you anymore.

If you're town, you're compromised, and you and mastina post way too much to de-shitshow this game.

Because it wasn’t a core premise to your argument.

I am not compromised I am logical.

You’re saying emotional because I have passion.

You’re building complex chains to avoid the reality. Nahdia/beeboy and lovebird faked being masons. They need to die.

There is nothing more logical. You’re twisting shit to get out of it.

[OnTheMark]

I need a majority to agree to "beeboy town implies Lovebird town". The fact that no one pointed it out to me until I found it myself is pretty shit. Lovebird can't die if Nahdia does. And honestly, I'm lowkey townreading beeboy for pulling that shit.

OTM hurts that majority. If it's clear that a large portion of the other players agree to that partial gamesolve, then yeah I'll go with Maria/Kokichi.

Edit: I see scum!LLD doing that just fine. And role is not alignment indicative. Unless her read is >95%, OTM is the best possible townflip that can happen. If Maria or Kokichi flips town, we're back in the exact same shitshow tomorrow.

Convince mastina to stop filling 80% of her catchups with "OTM IS SCUM CAPSSSS" and that'll also work for me.

Not when I fucking force Momrangal to confirm mastina is masons and not fakeclaiming too. If Momrangal lies that is suicide. And if I am alive Momrangal gets a result.

And no

That block is bullshit.

Lovebird needs to go now.

And I didn’t point it out because it’s irrelebant. It is a read.

[OnTheMark]

Just ignore OTM

We're regaining functionality.

You, me, LLD, Lovebird, probably Nahdia, Mastina if she can focus. That's the Townbloc that's going to turn this shitshow around.

It starts with Kokichi and Maria.

Hell, I'll even fall in line with you because I think both Kokichi and Maria are scum.

VOTE: Maria

Getting dragged into OTM's petulance just perpetuates the problem. Be pro-Town

Petulance my ass. Lovebird is scum and someone is scum trying to save them.

[OnTheMark]

So we're kind of at a point where because we're leaving Momrangal, mastina/Nico, and Pine/me alive, and because Eddie won't flip, and because Lovebird can't get lynched before beeboy,

the only useful slots to sort right now are

Not_Mafia, Kokichi, LLD, MariaR, Nahdia, OTM, correct?

Edit: PoE + policy + I think it's easier to lynch you than Kokichi.

Lovebird MUST be lynched before Nahdia even if you believe in Ellitell.

What the fuck? The useful slots to sort are you and Pine and Beeboy and Lovebird.

[OnTheMark]

I'm mostly shocked we're not lynching conf scum mech wise. Like the fact Mastina and Dino don't have a hard on for lynching mon is shocking

Lol Momrangal is not conf scum mechwise. Otherwise anyone with a scummy sounding role is conf scum. That’s just bad.

Conf scum is lovebird and Nahdia for fakeclaiming.

[OnTheMark]

in no world is a mason cop going to town with only 1 pair of masons reeee

In no world scum never have scum chat. Except it happens.

In no world is town given neg utility shit. Except it happens.

Momrangel if scum is forced to confirm Mastina/Nico town. I have 0 desire to lynch them right now.

[OnTheMark]

Can you read my iso and try to give reason for scum me instead of policy so the gamestate isn't ruined it's the main reason I avoid you. If we can get that out of the way it's fine

Wasn't able to find reasons the last time you were scum either. Or at least any reasons I had, you immediately shot down. Getting into that just isn't useful. PoE is the best tool I have right now, personally.

Then your PoE should have lovebird since you scumread them before.

Not scumreading them after they rescinded feels like you were trying to snipe a scumread on them when you could go back for brownie points later. Now the wagon is taking off you’re trying to figure out who you can mislynch.

[OnTheMark]

LLD/Mom is consistent. Doubt Pine goes out of his way to assist in a PoE that fucks over both his scumbuddies basically tomorrow or the day after. Defence of LLD is consistent with Pine-scum I guess.

LLD/Mom/Maria more likely lol

Edit: Ok dude. Continue scumreading everyone who disagrees with you.
Lovebird is only scum if beeboy is also scum.
So a situation in which scum-me is defending Lovebird basically means you're calling a scumteam of Lovebird/beeboy/Mathdino.

That or you’re a scum beard yeah.

[OnTheMark]

Or you know beeboy can’t read lovebird.

He really should have just rescinded.

But you lovebird Beeboy/Nahdia makes a fuck ton of sense. That and/or Pine

[OnTheMark]

remind me why you're so certain that beeboy can't read lovebird

to the point that you outright think a town-beeboy's 100% confident read is actually worse than random

Because lovebird hasn’t posted any content to be read. Therefore no read can be formed. So Beeboy has no read and claims masons to protect scum buddy.

[OnTheMark]

listen to yourself right now

you sound like people who think not_mafia is unreadable

or worse, people who think creature is unreadable

Creature if he posts is town. If not he is scum.

And yes unless someone posts there is nothing to read and therefore cannot be “read”.

As in that case what do you read? The clouds?

Excuse me while I do a rain dance to get a read on someone /sarcasm

[OnTheMark]

Idk why anyone thinks I tell beeboy to with me claim mason as scum there, makes totally no sense. Wasn't scumread anyways

Nobody thinks you did. Scum cftww?

Come push lovebird with me.

[OnTheMark]

people don't learn through overflow and 5 replacements

i assume shit like this is why the thread is too long for replacements to actually catch up and learn the relevant info in the first place

what are your reads

You mean like I tried and no one summarized. The problem is people keep posting bullshit and I have to defend against it or it turns into more bullshit. Except the original input I was give. Was bullshit which meant my output was bullshit. So we take care of what the root cause of the bullshit is. The fake claim.

If people would just make goddamn sense this, not fucking do personal attacks, and tell the truth, not gambit and just be Townie this game would be simpler.

Instead people just decide they are gonna be as antitown as possible and anyone who has passion feelings or emotions must be antitown for giving a damn to not let the game get in control by scum.

So town and scum/antitown fight it out.

The answer is quit thinking you can control the game and instead just be Townie. Then 90% of these arguments don’t fucking happen.

[OnTheMark]

mathblade, your argument is undermined by the continual success and high accuracy rates of people reading based off of meta

if meta-based players had =random accuracy rates, or lower accuracy than "LET'S ONLY READ BASED ON POSTS IN THIS GAME" players, then sure, your argument would hold ground

but like

your argument right now is dangerously out of touch with current site meta

Editx8: is this why the post count is too damn high?

Current site meta is town is shit and ramp up town power to insane levels.

I seriously got done with a normal game with jailkeeper and tracker and two masons versus encryptor and that is it.

I played a game against jailkeeper tracker and weak masonizer with roleblocker and encryptor. I forget if there was a third PR.

Don’t talk with me about site meta. Quite frankly it is shit atm. It’s a ton of people who townread people they like versus actually scimhunting.

I like mastina a whole fuckton. I think she is a damn good scum player and an okay town one. That doesn’t mean I don’t push her. Too many times the “town blocks” show up with the same damn people.

[OnTheMark]

Do you like wood as Kokichi? Maybe 2x2 or 4x4? Like for building houses?

[OnTheMark]

Do you like wood Kokichi? Maybe 2x2 or 4x4? Like for building houses?

Sorry phone sucks sometimes

[OnTheMark]

Mastina please catch up before you say I haven’t claimed for the millionth time I have. But here it is again I am a compulsive ascetic maker.

I already said why I staggered it so scum didn’t figure it out and kill momorangel.

[OnTheMark]

And it wasn’t ensure protections succeed

It was ensure the Results were accurate.

If you’re gonna do a summary at least get THAT right.

[OnTheMark]

Scum masons IS a thing and I have played with that before.

Oh then you should be able to find a non-bastard mafiascum game run in the last eight years with them.

...No?

...Yeah thought not.

It doesn't matter if it's a fucking thing on a different site. That's a different fucking site. It doesn't matter if it's a fucking thing in a bastard game. That's a fucking bastard game which this is confirmed to not be.

Scum masons are not a thing in a non-bastard game and I was able to demonstrate that so your insistence on them being a thing is outright lying about the actual facts.

Mastina I am at work fixing a critical error.

The mod answer about it not being bastard should be plenty.

[OnTheMark]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... scum+mason

@mastina scum mason game on MS. I won against it as wolves. It was multiball.

[OnTheMark]

Masons are a group of players who can speak to each other privately and

know that everyone in their group is not a member of the Mafia

. Whether the Masons' ability to privately communicate can be used at any time or at Night only is up to the moderator's discretion. The number of Masons can vary from game to game, and

it is not impossible for there to exist separate Mason groups within the same game

.

Alignment:
Pro-town

(Also, this is a quite serious dare.

Find me the last game to use a MAFIA Mason.

I'd be willing to bet you can't find one later than 2010. I know there's one in a notorious Large "Normal" which was singlehandedly the game responsible for launching the inception of the NRG, but that game also had a cult and lyncher in it among others. Yes, I said NORMAL. With airquotes for good fucking reason.)

It was a mini.

And the mason was to let them talk with their traitor. Again scum masons are a thing I have seen it. I do not consider it bastard and it is not bastard for it to exist. The mod never lies. The people are of the same alignment.

[OnTheMark]

I mean come on. Just in roles flipped before endgame, I see a Jester, a Cult Leader, a Mafia Mason, and a Mafia Usurper.

That actually weakens your case, OTM.

It is my case.

People do it and it’s a thing.

Mastina said she never saw it.

[OnTheMark]

okay i'm down with ignoring mathblade until maria flips

how many votes we got? has anyone set up the automatic vote counter?

I can do it later. Just not in the mood. It's actually really easy to set up mine.

[OnTheMark]

I'm the reason why everyone has 1 shot anon msgs.
Will not go into any more detail

I wish people would understand why I townread you for that :/ Did you at least understand my handshake? Was hoping you wouldn't have to claim.

[OnTheMark]

There could be one “listener” of sorts for something but in general I think that is pretty much it.

[OnTheMark]

That was me trying to signal to Maria. :/

[OnTheMark]

And it is an is. Not a was.

I think MariaR is town independent of that.

[OnTheMark]

And if I have to hear “sounds like a town or scum role” again I am gonna scream.

[OnTheMark]

What was the first character after the * in my note to LLD Maria?

[OnTheMark]

I don't read the messages mark. I enable then
along with something else that loses any power it has if I claim it

Well damn :/ Didn’t even get that right

[OnTheMark]

*rolls eyes*

That means absolutely nothing. I have gambited before and carried it when there was incentive not to. It’s that reason I carried it. It’s also irrelevant and why I don’t vote the duo is because this resolved itself tomorrow.

[OnTheMark]

This game is like bashing my head against a wall.

While drunk off my ass.

And being violated with a rusty spork.

...Just no.

Don’t make that last line again please.

[OnTheMark]

Blatant prod dodge.

I have dnd tonight. Still think scum controls this game and it’s just a popularity contest. No one besides me and my townreads are actually scumhunting and people are way too concerned about tearing others down.

[OnTheMark]

You realize pushing my mislynch confirms you both as scum right?

I also see that my mislynch needs to happen.

Once I flip town, Mastina and Nico die. They are scum that killed Momrangal to hide the fact they aren’t masons. I am the counter to Mastina/Nico so they need me gone to make their checks ninja.

VOTE: OTM

I have work. Give me 24 hours for a reads list before mislynching me

[OnTheMark]

You realize pushing my mislynch confirms you both as scum right?

I also see that my mislynch needs to happen.

Once I flip town, Mastina and Nico die. They are scum that killed Momrangal to hide the fact they aren’t masons. I am the counter to Mastina/Nico so they need me gone to make their checks ninja.

VOTE: OTM

I have work. Give me 24 hours for a reads list before mislynching me

No, you are killed her so you can bring this exact argument.

Also, mastina is the one who shot Kokichi, so please don't waste her blessing by letting OTM have his way. @Nahdia

Yeah nice try

Mastina shot a lightning rod. Sure *rolls eyes*

[OnTheMark]

Mastina is clearly a vig mason ninja maker IC maker tracker Watcher jailkeeper doctor cop strongman and kitchen sink.

[OnTheMark]

Uh huh. Sure thing. I will even fall on it to be protown.

Then your fakeclaim is exposed.

[OnTheMark]

Hold up, you gave it last night and she used it last night? This resolves at end of day or something?

Exactly this.

How would a vig received be able to be fired at night? I don’t buy it.

And furthermore why wouldn’t mastina shoot me if she was town. She knows that if I am scum (hint I am not) then I am hard as fuck to lynch. Instead she shoots MariaR?

Nico doesn’t think about bus driver or other shenanigans because Nico knows what shenanigans exist.

They are trying to draw out the vig. Don’t let them. Vig don’t CC.

VOTE: NicoRobin

I have work.

[OnTheMark]

Mathdino and I are Inventor ENABLERS.

I received and was able to use the invention-gift in one go. It makes sense that Mastina would have received and used it immediately.

How do you know what Mathdino is?

VOTE: Unvote

[OnTheMark]

Same idea applies.

I just don’t believe she vigged anyone.

Pine knowing what Mathdino is needs sorting now.

[OnTheMark]

No I am having a brain and using it.

Radical concept.

Mastina as town would have vigged me over anyone else. She fuckin told me I sometimes am a policy vig. I don’t believe you.

[OnTheMark]

Same idea applies.

I just don’t believe she vigged anyone.

Pine knowing what Mathdino is needs sorting now.

Then who did?

Why should we out the vig to scum? It’s what you want.

[OnTheMark]

OTM we covered this yesterday. We softed something and Cheeky used her 1-shot message to confirm her role to us. We are both Beeboy, and are even/odd versions of Inventor Enablers.

Sorry forgot.

VOTE: NicoRobin

Because I know mastina’s playbook and she knows she can’t mislynch me.

I am a-okay with this.

I have work. Mislynch away all I ask is for tonight to be able to get my reads post together.

[OnTheMark]

Christ. Can y'all stop being so overdramatic and rash? The day has barely begun, most people haven't checked in.

The reason I am dramatic is because you are bying into OTM's BS LIKE GULLIBLE IDIOTS, AND SHUT ME UP THE MOMENT I TRY TO FORCE HIS LYNCH BY FLIPPING MASON.

Comprende?

The reason I am dramatic is because you are buying their BS like gullible idiots and shut me up the moment I try to force their lynch by flipping town.

Comprende?

Two can play at that game and it’s not what Nahdia wants knock it off.

I am getting my time. Literally driving to work and ignoring this thread.

[OnTheMark]

@Nahdia Not by itself no. But when put together with shading us, it does.

Okay well I disagree with that, so that's where the disconnect between us is. I don't see why OTM can't just be wrong town assuming you are masons.

Because Mini 1936.

Because Stevens Universe 2.

If people think I am scum we can eat the mislynch.

The fact that if Mastina is town didn’t vig me kinda proves she is scum.

She knows what I did as caught scum in night and day.

Mastina if town always vigs me here.

The reason you didn’t is you’re scared of my flip.

But I don’t mind dying to have it proven especially when you’re torpedoing your arguments by voting Pine after accusing me of wiggling my vote and then going back to me.

I don’t care for the all caps. It’s an action of last resort.

I am gonna scumhunt for the buddies. You can scream.

[OnTheMark]

He killed Momrangal to frame us. If she were still alive, she would have checked us and revealed us as masons. He couldn't have that, so he killed her.

And now he has free reign over you all, he got you hook, line and sinker. The difference is that there's no Momrangal to back him into a corner.

They killed Momrangal to escape the guilty. If Momrangal was still alive she would have checked you and revealed you’re scum.

This is ridiculous and petulant.

We are stopping this and hunting.

If you think I am scum find who with.

What you are doing is spam which no one wants to read.

Right now I have a hair brained theory I want to see if it is true.

[OnTheMark]

Am I the only one who sees an additional option
You're all dumb
Why not lynch LLD

LLD is town.

Nahdia I am coming around to town.

I am not interested in mislynching.

[OnTheMark]

Rolecop on Momomen is not alignment indicative.

He can still be scum flipless.

We need a true cop on momomen.

I’d be willing to buy he’s flipless regardless of alignment.

[OnTheMark]

Alright, time for a fullclaim.
I am Sudowodo, a Town Enabled Historical Record Mason.

At the beginning of

every

cycle--D1, N1, D2, N2, D3, and so on and so forth. I will be given a scene from a game that involved both Pine and Alisae. Every scene gives me the possibility of receiving a 1-shot ability with a limited window in which that ability can be used, which seems to be "the time you receive the ability".
I am a mason with NicoRobin; all of my abilities are enabled by her.
Our Mason PT is called "Mini 2006: MASON PT".

On D1, the scene I received was, "Day One - Twin Trap Mafia". It involved Alisae and Pine introducing themselves only to be interrupted by KAIN TEPES. (Which the dialog demonstrates as Pine and Alisae going, "..." to.) This ability was the 1x Compulsive Track/Watch-Immune D1 Distributor--an ability required to give out on D1. I gave it to Momomen.

On N1, the scene I received was, "Night One - L'Hotel Pleuvoir". It involved Alisae declaring Pine town, Pine asking if that was a good idea, Alisae being unsure, and asking if e should shoot Pine. This ability was a 1x N1 Vigilante.

I shot Kokichi Oma.

On D2, I received the scene "Day Two - Big Round Numbers". It involved Pine faking a dayvig, Alisae townreading it, Pine scumreading the townread, Pine going silent, and someone else whose avatar I recognize but not well enough to name who they are (the scenes have avatars rather than names) saying they are Pine now (I'm assuming it's a game Pine flaked from). I received no abilities from this scene.

I was also at daystart gifted an invention; this invention was a rolecop.

When Nico said you got gifted vig?

I am really trying here but this looks likes more bullshit on the pile.

Why claim at all? It doesn’t help. People have their minds made up about things?

[OnTheMark]

Furthermore if you were a vig why didn’t you shoot me?

[OnTheMark]

You are a

Mafia Informed Ascetic 1-Shot Semi-Lightning Rod

.

So it's a good thing I didn't shoot Mathblade here. (He was the other option and Nico was asking why I wasn't submitting him. I can explain my full reasoning there but that's not relevant to my current point.) Because this?

...This is fairly good reason to believe he's town here. The scum had a PERMANENTLY ASCETIC who could lightning rod actions and cause them to fail. Why would a team with a PERMANENT ASCETIC need on top of that an Asceticiser?

Is this lock-solid absolute reasoning to clear OnTheMark? Why no, no it's not. It's setup speculation. But IS it reasoning to clear OnTheMark? Why yes, yes it is; I feel my reasoning here is fairly...well, reasonable.

Here is the thing...I just don’t believe you’re town here.

The story has changed one too many times.

Nico is a mason. Nico is a mason enabler. Nico is a gladiator enabler.
Mastina is a neg utility that is counter to me. Mastina is a mason counter to me. Mastina didn’t receive a rolecop per Nico. Mastina received a rolecop.

I legit don’t trust a word out of you and if you’re town that is a problem.

And if you have neg utility anyone claim it now so I cancel you.

[OnTheMark]

You are a

Mafia Informed Ascetic 1-Shot Semi-Lightning Rod

.

So it's a good thing I didn't shoot Mathblade here. (He was the other option and Nico was asking why I wasn't submitting him. I can explain my full reasoning there but that's not relevant to my current point.) Because this?

...This is fairly good reason to believe he's town here. The scum had a PERMANENTLY ASCETIC who could lightning rod actions and cause them to fail. Why would a team with a PERMANENT ASCETIC need on top of that an Asceticiser?

Is this lock-solid absolute reasoning to clear OnTheMark? Why no, no it's not. It's setup speculation. But IS it reasoning to clear OnTheMark? Why yes, yes it is; I feel my reasoning here is fairly...well, reasonable.

Furthermore if you are masons get on the same damn page.

Fucking talk with Nico please.

Because I quite frankly have zero desire to go reread something that made me completely dysphoric and someone who screams I am scum every three seconds. I want to believe you’re town but my brain is screaming no.

[OnTheMark]

Gay mafia as I mentioned earlier scum shoot their own.

And yes dead scum shot by someone. That doesn’t make you town and that doesn’t make you a vig.

Quite easily the vig could be in hiding and have shot scum and you NKd someone else

There are a ton of possibilities here. I want time to process them and I want a reason to go back and reread Nico.

[OnTheMark]

If she was aware of the plan why scream I am scum at daystart?

And I did. I just don’t have a faultless memory.

[OnTheMark]

But don't take my word for it, go read Radical Rat's ISO in Mini 1936. It's filled to the brim with the exact same type of shading OTM is doing here. The exact same type.

Seriously, just read that game and get your mind out of the gutter. I am tired of repeating the same thing over and over and having it fall on deaf ears. So compare Radical Rat's ISO in that game and OTM's ISO in this game and then write me a 150 character essay about whether or not their ISOs are different.....

*yawn*

Dude...Like I am not Radical Rat.

I don’t care if Radical Rat was scum that game.

I am not him.

That would be like me applying Titus’s meta to a lurker then calling them scum for lurking because Titus doesn’t lurk. Furthermore Mastina knows what my weakness is a scum. I’ve told her on multiple occasions. If after talking with Mastina both of you feel I am scum then Mastina can tunnel me into paste.

I am really trying to be more open minded but in general it is harder than most for me to do a uturn.

Especially when I get continually insulted by someone who isn’t talking with their “mason” partner. Like I still don’t even know if you’re sorry for damn near putting me through what feels like literal hell. Even if I am scum (which I am not) no person deserves what you did and to be frank it is clouding my judgment.

When people are calling for your policy lynch for being despicable I can’t exactly stop them even though I want the time to process what Mastina says when I am off work. If I come back to a shit ton of pages and caps of me being scum and that you don’t even treat me with site rules decency it makes me want you to be scum.

[OnTheMark]

So OTM. Let me get this straight.

Mastina and Nico are claimed Masons

With no counter

Who claimed on page two

And didn't back down when other Masons claimed

Said Masons now being busted

And there's a confirmed Town Mason-Cop

And they're claiming the vig kill on flipped scum

Plus their claims made a TON of sense once the obfuscation was pulled back
>>>>>Yes, I know there's an irregularity with Nico, but she fullclaimed to me in the one-shot message, and it gets cleared up

Also Mastina continues to bleed Town

And her Asceticizer claim makes no fucking sense when you have a full Ascetic on the scumteam.

........but sure. Tell me more about your mostly-OMGUS scumread.

Tunnel better in the future please.

Because scum have a need for a ninja and town doesn’t. And that I am a counter to them.

It’s like I exist to stop Mastina from acting.

She has fake claimed masons as scum and not been countered before and won.

I am the ascetizer not her.

I am paranoid I admit that and I will try to re read Mastina’s ISO tonight

However I pretty much have 0 desire to talk with Nico

[OnTheMark]

Mastina I will be home in 30-45 to chat and try to sort you.

Will you be online?

Driving now not reading.

[OnTheMark]

Just got home. I see you said we aren’t talking.

And okay. I guess I won’t ask anything or try to sort you then.

::(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

That really hurts. Like badly. Like I blocked off all of tonight to reread sort and interact with you to figure shit out. You saying no sucks.

Because I can’t talk with Nico so I like don’t know how to fix things

Pedit will read that wall of text inside

[OnTheMark]

I think it's RC playing on Alisae's account these days, Alisae has become way ruder that what she used to be.

Alisae would never allow this IMHO.

[OnTheMark]

Can everyone please make a post like that? I think there is likely a lie detector if roles have to do with flavor. It would give us a free cop that they can use down the road.

@Mastina what do you make of this?

[OnTheMark]

Can someone give me the balance reasons for 4 masons and a balance cop all being town? I just don't think that's possible unless scum have a godfather strongarm role as 1 person or something crazy like that

This I still maintain is more likely to mean Nahdia and Lovebird are town, albeit not as strongly.

I could go with one of Nahdia or Lovebird being town if you two are but I don’t think both.

[OnTheMark]

Assuming the scum team is 3 players I'm pretty comfortable calling it Mastina/Wisdom/LLD. Gg.

You think Mastina and Wisdom are scum together after that post? What?? hahahaha.

This post does kinda spew you town and LLD town. Is it possible CheekyTeeky and Kokichi are scum together and that is an exaggerated reaction to a buddy?

[OnTheMark]

Nahdia
MathDino
OnTheMark
Lovebird
Lady Lambdadelta
Pine
Not_Mafia
MOMOMEN

So assume OnTheMark, Pine, Nahdia, and Lovebird are spewed town. (In about that order of strength.)

You're left with:
MathDino
Lady Lambdadelta
Not_Mafia
MOMOMEN

...Two scum in this pool.

If I were asked to rate the confidence in scum being in there. It'd be about 57.5%.
Or rather, both scum.
One scum, good 90%, but we're talking, both remaining scum. That's 57.5%.

Still. I could use some crowdsource feedback on my process here.
NicoRobin and I are conftown by virtue of being masons and also shooting scum.

OnTheMark is more likely town through a combination of their role being Asceticizer when scum had an Ascetic and via play being more likely to be town.
Pine is more likely town through a combination of Kokichi Oma spewing the slot as town, role symmetry with Mathdino, and previously mentioned reasons I was townreading him which still hold: the Alisae play, the Alisae replace, Pine's play, their gamesolving, their thought process, and so on and so forth. (I've posted on this before.)
Nahdia is more likely town through a combination of Kokichi spewing the masonclaimers as town, Nahdia retracting the claim when doing so as scum then would be disadvantageous to scum, and general townplay from both beeboy and Nahdia.
Lovebird is more likely town through a combination of Kokichi spewing the masonclaimers as town, Lovebird's thought process bleeding town when the claim was retracted, and beeboy having a solid read there which is something which may be trustworthy especially from a Team Mafia mod. (Team Mafia mods are privy to some info from Ellibereth.)

That'd leave those four names, yes? Two of which would be scum, yes?

I guess I can lay down an initial vote now.
VOTE: Not_Mafia.
50% odds of being scum aren't the best, but they beat random odds.

I would take LLD out of that pool tbh.

It’s 100% a read of “I know her from being friends and talking sometimes”.

[OnTheMark]

VOTE: MathDino

I feel this more than Not Mafia but if Not Mafia becomes a thing I will go there

[OnTheMark]

@nicorobin: yeah except mastina is lying because she's mastina

Except no I fucking don't lie.

I deceive as town, sure. But I know what deceptions are smart townplay and what are just fucking stupid. I exaggerate as town, sure, but I know when to level with the town. I switch things as town, sure, but I know when to reveal this gambit. Fuck, I wrote a whole fucking article on it; you'd know since you read my MD stuff. It's called Risk-Reward Analysis. (The link to the original MD article needs fixing since it links to the MD article above it, but oh well. Wiki version's probably more up to date anyway.)

The reward from fakeclaiming here is zilch. I gain nothing here. The risk is tremendous. Namely that it leads to a shithole. I'm not fucking stupid. I know when not to pull gambits just as much as I know when to pull gambits. This is NOT a game to gambit in. I do have the minor information held back--I was holding back that NicoRobin enabled me and I am holding back the exact nature of my abilities in spite of claiming that one of my abilities generates a negative utility.

But even there that's calculated. There is zero reward to me revealing what I'm holding back; in contrast, there is a rather significant risk to revealing it.

And the whole time, my play has been governed by that.

There was zero risk in claiming my negative utility. There was great reward because I could croudsource targets, allowing for me to give the option least-damaging for said negative utility, making it the most pro-town as possible. Given that Momomen are confirmed to be Loud, and that their Loudness does not get overriden by my ability, by claiming it I was able to select the optimal target: them.

There was incredible risk and moderate reward in Yume messaging AliPine. I frowned upon it greatly because it was not an action I approved of; the risk was too high for what would only be a moderate reward. In contrast, when I messaged Momomen, there was limited risk and the potential for huge reward since at the time we were not outed as masons.

I was not the one who outed us as masons. That would be AliPine. It was an action I wouldn't have approved of, because there was incredible risk and zero reward to it, but since it was out of my hands, it wasn't something I could do anything about.

I was not the one who outed that I am enabled. That action had incredible risk and moderate reward.

You can notice a stark contrast between actions I take, and actions others take that impact me. Including those of NicoRobin.

When I take an action. It is a calculated risk, meant to optimize reward. Hinting at my theory is a case where there is moderate risk but incredible reward, for instance--a little bit gutsy, but if I'm right, the payoff is huge and overall it's acceptable. Fullclaiming on the other hand would be incredible risk for no reward; not something I'd endorse on D1, but on D2 I am anticipating the equation changing such that the rewards significantly outweigh the risks.

The mason gambit is also a calculated risk. In normal gamestates, it would be an action I'd deem usually low-risk, with the reward being anywhere from moderate to incredible...

...But

in

this

specific gamestate

. The mason gambit has high risk, zilch reward. It gives nothing because Yume and I have roles where we don't really WANT to claim mason. It takes away because of the other claims out there. Mason Cop? If we were fakeclaiming and said mason cop targeted us...LOL WHOOPS. Other mason claims? LOL WHOOPS WE GOT COUNTERCLAIMED.

You see what I mean.

This gamestate, sticking to a mason gambit would be high risk, zero reward.

But we're sticking to our claims...because that's our actual fucking roles. We CAN'T lie and say "lol just gambiting".
Both because that'd be a lie since we fucking ARE masons.

But ALSO because lying about not being masons when we are?

Somewhere between moderate to incredible risk (let's say high), somewhere between zero and moderate (let's say low) reward.

We.
Are.
Masons.

And I don't fucking lie like this.

That is people's perception of me.
Not the reality of me.

so mastina and nicorobin are obviously lying regardless of card right?

This is a fair assessment of OnTheMark's viewpoint, yes.

It is also self-evidently...well, evidence for why he's scum.

Would this remove momomen from the list assuming the loud is confirmed?

[OnTheMark]

[OnTheMark]

VOTECOUNT 1.35

Not_Mafia [2]

- Lady LambdaDelta,

Momrangal

Momrangal

[2]

-

Lovebird

,

MariaR

Lovebird

[1]

-

OnTheMark

MariaR

[7] -

Pine

, MathDino,

mastina, NicoRobin

, Not_Mafia,

Nahdia

, MOMOMEN

Kokichi Oma

[1]

-

Kokichi Oma

So Kokichi was scum off the wagon and was confident there wasn't going to be a scumflip as shown by his self-vote. He could fuck around because scum weren't in any real danger. The question to ask here: all scum off (scumteam is LLD/Lovebird, OnTheMark/Lovebird, or LLD/OnTheMark; I find all of these to be...rather questionable to say the least), one scum on two scum off, or two scum on?

I'm genuinely curious which people think. One scum on, two off, or one scum off, two scum on; it makes a big difference here for scumhunting. CONVENTIONAL wisdom would say two scum on, but I'm not sure I can lock it down.

Spoiler: Additional Rudimentary VCA which is probably worthless thus the spoiler

VOTECOUNT 1.34

Not_Mafia [2]

- Lady LambdaDelta,

Momrangal

OnTheMark

[1]

- MOMOMEN

Momrangal

[3]

-

Lovebird

,

Kokichi Oma

,

MariaR

Lovebird

[1]

-

OnTheMark

MariaR

[5]

- Pine, MathDino,

mastina, NicoRobin

, Not_Mafia

Not Voting [1]:

Nahdia

So there isn't hard data here, but my INSTINCTS tell me that Kokichi Oma didn't want to be associated with the Momrangal wagon--to me, this makes me feel better about Lovebird being town. Potentially also Nahdia, who was also on there, but less so.

VOTECOUNT 1.28

Not_Mafia [3]

- Lady LambdaDelta,

Momrangal

,

OnTheMark

OnTheMark

[4]

-

NicoRobin, mastina

,

Pine

, MOMOMEN

Momrangal

[4]

-

beeboy, Lovebird

,

Kokichi Oma

,

MariaR

mastina

[1]

- Not_Mafia

Not Voting [1]:

CheekyTeeky

So my instincts here say scum aren't focused in any location; they would be evenly distributed. This would make Nahdia and Lovebird be town, and place 0-1 scum in Not_Mafia/Mathdino (doubtful both scum are in the 1s there), 0-1 scum in Pine/MOMOMEN, and 0-1 scum in LLD/OnTheMark, with two of these three groups having one scum and one of these three groups having none.

The key then would be finding which two groups.
If we work on the underlined-as-town, then those groups become 0-1 scum in Not_Mafia/Mathdino, 0-1 scum in MOMOMEN, and 0-1 scum in LLD, leaving possible teams as Not_Mafia/MOMOMEN, Not_Mafia/LLD (doubtful as LLD is voting Not_Mafia), Mathdino/MOMOMEN, Mathdino/LLD, and MOMOMEN/LLD. But that's only under the assumption that the underlined are town.

Btw random number crunching if you do rule out the Not_Mafia/LLD team (not the best assumption, but hey, random numbers are fun), Not_Mafia is only scum in one scenario; LLD is only scum in one scenario; Mathdino and MOMOMEN are scum in two. But if you asked how much trust I place in said numbers, it'd be as close to absolute zero as you can get without reaching zero.

VOTECOUNT 1.11

mastina

[1]

-

Lovebird

Momrangal

[1]

- Lady LambdaDelta

MariaR

[5]

-

mastina

,

Wisdom

, CheekyTeeky,

Momrangal

,

Sudowoodo

CheekyTeeky [1]

- RedFlavor

No Lynch [1]

-

beeboy

Wisdom

[3]

-

MariaR

,

NicoRobin

,

Kokichi Oma

Not Voting [1]:

MOMOMEN

Okay so this jumps out to me as well. Kokichi was on the otherwise-all-town counterwagon to MariaR who we know to be town. I'd strongly think that'd mean both buddies aren't on MariaR, ruling out OnTheMark/Mathdino, OnTheMark/Pine, and Mathdino/Pine. (Of course, two of them are underlined anyway.) There's 0-1 scum in there, and if you operate under the assumption of the underlined as town, it'd be Mathdino.

That still leaves 1-2 scum in the off-voters, the random wagoners. Your options there for a double-scum are Lovebird/LLD, Lovebird/Not_Mafia, Lovebird/Nahdia (definitely not!), Lovebird/MOMOMEN, LLD/Not_Mafia (extremely doubtful), LLD/Nahdia, LLD/MOMOMEN (the only team to not use underlined), Not_Mafia/Nahdia, Not_Mafia/MOMOMEN, or Nahdia/MOMOMEN. A lot of teams, a lot of options.
Even more when you throw in 1 scum in there and 1 scum on MariaR.

In other words--this votecount does give a critical piece of information (the MariaR wagon doesn't have two scum on it), but it's otherwise not very useful.

I hate to be that person but can you restate your question please with saying which wagons specifically?

It is hard for me to follow what exactly you are asking for.

[OnTheMark]

Except Wisdom and myself who object repeatedly. What did you claim? Can’t find it[/i]

Read the first 5 pages lol. And Wisdom never objected, and he hard tr'd me too if you wanna cite wisdom. Also, a role you can't target your mason partner with makes sense if its a compulsive neg util. lol.

Yes. If we mislynch a mason tomorrow momrangel confirms as scum and the other pair as scum. FYI if you’re insistent on checking the pair Momrangal check lovebird. Beeboy claimed mason godfather. I would much rather you check Mastina

Look, no point hiding this anymore. We used our messages to communicate. Mastina messaged me a claim earlyish in the day (after the mason stuff was in thread a bit, before it was popular). I messaged back for her to confirm I was loud (after I had the mod confirm that her action would not be affected by loud, to prove I'm not a ninja), which she's done in thread. I gave her a phrase to give to Yume and Yume did it, proving they had day chat. I gave some very harsh words about Yume if its a gambit, and if yume's gambitting she's hard blacklisted (

if you haven't redacted it by the end of day 1

). like, I have no words for play that bad and I've played with some pretty damn bad players. I don't think Yume is that dumb though and I do believe her claim, so they're masons or scum partners. IF they're scum partners, sure, but that'll come out eventually like I told you and like you shoudl really know as a mathematical player, and otherwise they're just both town.

I think Bee and Love are gambitting, so yes, if we leave Mara and you alive I would rather he target Love. However, I hard townread both of them so I don't really care. At this point we're gonna mass claim day 2 or day 3. At that point, if 4 mason claims are still alive and town has other power, yes, we look twice at them. I think you and Pine still contains a scum, but looking back fresher I kind of see Ali slot town and I still thought Wisdom was solid although PoE sketch so idfk. Mara is known as someone who can fake her town meta well so idk why people are confidently TRing there, so honestly that's my second pick for a lynch after you/pine. Then there's your NM read which is just daft, and its a scummy slot. If we are lynching outside of everything, fucking fine, this day needs to end.

@mastina

This post here.

If scum had confirmed you as masons already, why push the mason cop? I think what you’re using in some of the supporting arguments doesn’t work if scum already knew you were masons.

[OnTheMark]

1 on

VOTE: LLD

why aren't we lynching this slot again?

Because Mathdino is telling us not to?

Pine are you really gonna hold me to that one day thing because I hunger for blood.

Ehhh. The read was from MathDino.

However, I have a COMPELLING reason to think Not_Mafia is Town, which I would STRONGLY PREFER to keep to myself. An action was performed on me N1 which, the more I think about it, virtually confirms N_M to me. I would very much like not to elaborate.

So yes. I'm holding you to it.

I think our best options today are {Nahdia, Momomen}. Given Momo's claim, I'd prefer the former.

Mastina, you have one shot to convince me why you're TRing Nahdia, because I don't see it.

Or we could do MathDino.

I haven’t heard a read related reason you took them out of the block. Only a mechanics one.

[OnTheMark]

@Mastina

Think of it like this.

Momrangal and I are/were both easy mislynch targets. I don’t see scum killing Momrangal here if they knew you were masons unless they thought they could manipulate me into tunneling you and Nico into tunneling me.

[OnTheMark]

It’s for this reason I kinda think it’s MathDino and maybe Not Mafia and 1-2 people on your top list.

I can’t see LLD or Nahdia as scum.

[OnTheMark]

A mechanics reason is all I need.

Also, bloc is spelled without a 'k'.

You need more.

Otherwise you’d be okay with me scumreading Mastina which you clearly aren’t.

[OnTheMark]

(For the record I am not calling Mastina scum in that post. I am just gonna handwave Mastina town. I will just brute force my mind into thinking it somehow)

[OnTheMark]

You have one small reason to mechanically suspect her.

I have a dozen reasons to clear her, some of which are deafeningly strong.

You’re missing the point. Or intentionally obfuscating it.

My point is you don’t have enough to clear MathDino.

I want a read based reason.

[OnTheMark]

Prod dodge

[OnTheMark]

Yeah I never got around to rereadinf mastina

Fucks given were zero. Was hoping to be able to read someone today

[OnTheMark]

I already said I am forcing them to be town in all my reads and that I won’t be attacking them.

What more do you want?

[OnTheMark]

You realize pushing my mislynch confirms you both as scum right?

I also see that my mislynch needs to happen.

Once I flip town, Mastina and Nico die. They are scum that killed Momrangal to hide the fact they aren’t masons. I am the counter to Mastina/Nico so they need me gone to make their checks ninja.

VOTE: OTM

I have work. Give me 24 hours for a reads list before mislynching me

why do you people keep self voting

when has that EVER worked out for you

Every time I have done it which is very rare

[OnTheMark]

VOTE: Momomen

Could be convinced here too.

Something in your confirmed townies is very horribly wrong. You don’t say?

[OnTheMark]

Wait a Minute, Pine, what are you saying you think N_M's role is?

Because

REDFLAVOUR CLAIMED TO ME VIA ANONYMOUS MESSAGE

and I cannot see what you would think he's obvious town for in that claim.

I don't have RF/N_M's claim. An action N1 targeted both of us which I'm pretty certain makes him Town. This action MIGHT have come from Town and is therefore NAI, and it MIGHT have come from scum, but like 4 times out of 5 this is scum targeting two Townies.

I'd rather. It elaborate further. It's already guessable.

Pine do you scumread me?

[OnTheMark]

I was asking to demonstrate a point.

You said your stuff is "guessable". If scum play similar to how I play scum noting all the PR roles etc saying that it's guessable means you might as well claim.

If you think scum know what something is and town doesn't that's a bad idea.

[OnTheMark]

Ugh I am not rolefishing

I am telling you to be cautious or go whole hog.

Don’t fucking half ass it

[OnTheMark]

Then I’ll stick to artwork I suppose.

[OnTheMark]

VOTECOUNT 1.35

Not_Mafia [2]

- Lady LambdaDelta,

Momrangal

Momrangal

[2]

-

Lovebird

,

MariaR

Lovebird

[1]

-

OnTheMark

MariaR

[7] -

Pine

, MathDino,

mastina, NicoRobin

, Not_Mafia,

Nahdia

, MOMOMEN

Kokichi Oma

[1]

-

Kokichi Oma

So Kokichi was scum off the wagon and was confident there wasn't going to be a scumflip as shown by his self-vote. He could fuck around because scum weren't in any real danger. The question to ask here: all scum off (scumteam is LLD/Lovebird, OnTheMark/Lovebird, or LLD/OnTheMark; I find all of these to be...rather questionable to say the least), one scum on two scum off, or two scum on?

I'm genuinely curious which people think. One scum on, two off, or one scum off, two scum on; it makes a big difference here for scumhunting. CONVENTIONAL wisdom would say two scum on, but I'm not sure I can lock it down.

Spoiler: Additional Rudimentary VCA which is probably worthless thus the spoiler

VOTECOUNT 1.34

Not_Mafia [2]

- Lady LambdaDelta,

Momrangal

OnTheMark

[1]

- MOMOMEN

Momrangal

[3]

-

Lovebird

,

Kokichi Oma

,

MariaR

Lovebird

[1]

-

OnTheMark

MariaR

[5]

- Pine, MathDino,

mastina, NicoRobin

, Not_Mafia

Not Voting [1]:

Nahdia

So there isn't hard data here, but my INSTINCTS tell me that Kokichi Oma didn't want to be associated with the Momrangal wagon--to me, this makes me feel better about Lovebird being town. Potentially also Nahdia, who was also on there, but less so.

VOTECOUNT 1.28

Not_Mafia [3]

- Lady LambdaDelta,

Momrangal

,

OnTheMark

OnTheMark

[4]

-

NicoRobin, mastina

,

Pine

, MOMOMEN

Momrangal

[4]

-

beeboy, Lovebird

,

Kokichi Oma

,

MariaR

mastina

[1]

- Not_Mafia

Not Voting [1]:

CheekyTeeky

So my instincts here say scum aren't focused in any location; they would be evenly distributed. This would make Nahdia and Lovebird be town, and place 0-1 scum in Not_Mafia/Mathdino (doubtful both scum are in the 1s there), 0-1 scum in Pine/MOMOMEN, and 0-1 scum in LLD/OnTheMark, with two of these three groups having one scum and one of these three groups having none.

The key then would be finding which two groups.
If we work on the underlined-as-town, then those groups become 0-1 scum in Not_Mafia/Mathdino, 0-1 scum in MOMOMEN, and 0-1 scum in LLD, leaving possible teams as Not_Mafia/MOMOMEN, Not_Mafia/LLD (doubtful as LLD is voting Not_Mafia), Mathdino/MOMOMEN, Mathdino/LLD, and MOMOMEN/LLD. But that's only under the assumption that the underlined are town.

Btw random number crunching if you do rule out the Not_Mafia/LLD team (not the best assumption, but hey, random numbers are fun), Not_Mafia is only scum in one scenario; LLD is only scum in one scenario; Mathdino and MOMOMEN are scum in two. But if you asked how much trust I place in said numbers, it'd be as close to absolute zero as you can get without reaching zero.

VOTECOUNT 1.11

mastina

[1]

-

Lovebird

Momrangal

[1]

- Lady LambdaDelta

MariaR

[5]

-

mastina

,

Wisdom

, CheekyTeeky,

Momrangal

,

Sudowoodo

CheekyTeeky [1]

- RedFlavor

No Lynch [1]

-

beeboy

Wisdom

[3]

-

MariaR

,

NicoRobin

,

Kokichi Oma

Not Voting [1]:

MOMOMEN

Okay so this jumps out to me as well. Kokichi was on the otherwise-all-town counterwagon to MariaR who we know to be town. I'd strongly think that'd mean both buddies aren't on MariaR, ruling out OnTheMark/Mathdino, OnTheMark/Pine, and Mathdino/Pine. (Of course, two of them are underlined anyway.) There's 0-1 scum in there, and if you operate under the assumption of the underlined as town, it'd be Mathdino.

That still leaves 1-2 scum in the off-voters, the random wagoners. Your options there for a double-scum are Lovebird/LLD, Lovebird/Not_Mafia, Lovebird/Nahdia (definitely not!), Lovebird/MOMOMEN, LLD/Not_Mafia (extremely doubtful), LLD/Nahdia, LLD/MOMOMEN (the only team to not use underlined), Not_Mafia/Nahdia, Not_Mafia/MOMOMEN, or Nahdia/MOMOMEN. A lot of teams, a lot of options.
Even more when you throw in 1 scum in there and 1 scum on MariaR.

In other words--this votecount does give a critical piece of information (the MariaR wagon doesn't have two scum on it), but it's otherwise not very useful.

Legit having trouble bringing myself to care about this game

[OnTheMark]

Guessing two scum on MathDino and Momomen

By reasons are idgaf and my gut says so

[OnTheMark]

votecount?

LIES!!!!!!!!!!

Just teasing. you’re a good mod <3

[OnTheMark]

Yay! I get both votes from who I scumread.

So like guys ladies and enbies I am compulsive who should I asceticize?

[OnTheMark]

guys pine is not getting lynched today
literally has a relevant night action tonight

VOTE: OTM

OTM, nahdia, or LLD is my lynchpool

Why not join Nahdia who mastina said could happen

Like your vote on me is not productive.

Then again who cares?!?!

Productivity discussion what are those?!?!

[OnTheMark]

At this point, there's a lot of townie slots and while we do have a scum flip so it kind of makes sense there's still some scum playing well.

A proper mass claim might solve a lot or a bit of it, today or tomorrow, probably the latter. Pretty much every slot has softclaimed anyways.

Shoutout Maria and her top townread getting vigged!

This can die.

[OnTheMark]

Well, since the players don\t want to listen to me and disregard everything I say as dumb, I might as well not say anything substantial.

Currently I don’t want to listen to you because I feel like you want me to not exist and would rather force me back into a closet. I am accurate in saying I don’t want to talk with you but it’s not because of your reads and I don’t think you’re dumb. I just have a line for my own sanity and it’s a rather hard line.

VOTE: MathDino

[OnTheMark]

1) I wasn’t 100% out yet. I only had they on my profile not he.
2) https://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php? ... sf=msgonly
Titus was called my sister NOT the other way around.
3) Even if that WAS the case someone can come out as trans and then you just call them what they want to be called. It’s not hard. Sure mistakes happen then apologize and move on. You don’t continue to fucking argue that you can use the old pronouns.

<removed irrelevant shit>

Pine pronouns legit don’t help. Thanks though. People ignore them in game intentionally.

People who intentionally make me feel like shit and then never apologize for it don’t get the time of day let alone me listening to them. It just doesn’t happen.

[OnTheMark]

At this point, there's a lot of townie slots and while we do have a scum flip so it kind of makes sense there's still some scum playing well.

A proper mass claim might solve a lot or a bit of it, today or tomorrow, probably the latter. Pretty much every slot has softclaimed anyways.

Shoutout Maria and her top townread getting vigged!

This can die.

referring to yourself in the third person is weird dude

I am not dude.

This = Momomen

[OnTheMark]

Well, since the players don\t want to listen to me and disregard everything I say as dumb, I might as well not say anything substantial.

Currently I don’t want to listen to you because I feel like you want me to not exist and would rather force me back into a closet. I am accurate in saying I don’t want to talk with you but it’s not because of your reads and I don’t think you’re dumb. I just have a line for my own sanity and it’s a rather hard line.

VOTE: MathDino

No, it is because of my reads. Your whole reason for not talking to me is because I have you as scum and refuse to budge.

I mean that is like patently false.

I am interacting with momomen’s posts even though I scum read him.

I just legit want nothing to do with you.

Talk with Mastina because she will tell you that what I am doing right now is hella rare and LLD can testify I am actually holding back rather significantly compared to a prior game where someone was intentionally making me dysphoric.

The only reason I don’t replace out of this game is I don’t give transphobic assholes the pride of forcing me out

[OnTheMark]

Spoiler: rant from before warning mentions genitalia

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 6#p8636986

So no, when you apologize is when I give a shit.

I am going to work.

[OnTheMark]

Done but it legit doesn’t matter.

At work and therapy all day today.

[OnTheMark]

You have drunk Marky

I will read this tomorrow and catch up.

Any questions for me while I am?

[OnTheMark]

Scum caught for the wrong reasons is not a tell
Just so we're all clear
Thanks

it is

+1

[OnTheMark]

It would be sweet if KTS posted before getting mislynched this time, Eddie

I'm more likely to flake out than make kts play

(I was asleep and did not message him for the following page)

do your job as the loud annoying townie my man

haha 90 pages ofmpure egotism and fuckinf usrlesss bikering and q0 pages of anything actually tangibpey not a monley ass conversation

it's almost like tjos was wjy i stopped playong tjis baby ass fucking game filled witha bunch of shitters who only caj ate LOL

Yet that is nothing but AtE and begging a buddy to obvTown lolz

[OnTheMark]

Honestly this makes me scumread Momo even more. This practically shouts "scum suspected for the wrong reasons"

Join me on momomen please

[OnTheMark]

VOTE: Momomen

Pretty sure it’s mono men and mathdino and just gonna alternate whichever is highest

[OnTheMark]

this one singular post was like a punch in the gut in terms of how I felt about this game

Can you blame me?

You have an elite scumgame; calling you scum here is a compliment, not an insult. Every player has at least some evidence suggesting they are town. I have three metrics by which to evaluate the evidence.
-Gamethread base evidence,
-Meta feeling evidence,
-And crowdsourcing evidence. (This being, trusting the read process of others, e.g. beeboy's Lovebird-is-town; Mathdino's RedFlavor is town. Among others.)

The reads I have are combining all of those. Some reasons for being town have grown from these, others are weakening, but they are in a state of constant flux. The current overall weakest reads are you and Mathdino, with LLD distantly as a third.

Yay we mind meld.

[OnTheMark]

this one singular post was like a punch in the gut in terms of how I felt about this game

Can you blame me?

You have an elite scumgame; calling you scum here is a compliment, not an insult. Every player has at least some evidence suggesting they are town. I have three metrics by which to evaluate the evidence.
-Gamethread base evidence,
-Meta feeling evidence,
-And crowdsourcing evidence. (This being, trusting the read process of others, e.g. beeboy's Lovebird-is-town; Mathdino's RedFlavor is town. Among others.)

The reads I have are combining all of those. Some reasons for being town have grown from these, others are weakening, but they are in a state of constant flux. The current overall weakest reads are you and Mathdino, with LLD distantly as a third.

No one here is mis-gendering you. You're trying to hold us responsible for others' bad behavior as an excuse for your own bad behavior. This is more bad behavior.

Stop.

Play Mafia, not this "I am being persecuted and shamed for wanting to treat others as badly as I perceive I am being treated" game.

Seriously. For the second time, please talk to me about your reads. Not a half-sentence statement of two people you scumread. Give me your reads on as many people as you can, in what detail you can.

How I 'perceive' I am being treated? You think my grievance isn't real? That I would make it all up to gain sympathy?

That's it, I am finding the post where someone misgendered me and linking it here to prove to you it's freaking real. >.>

1) Please help me find where someone misgendered you in this game. I did a skim of your ISO and couldn’t find it. If I am wrong I apologize. This way if the person did not apologize then they should. Misgendering is bad no matter what as it can have devastating effects.

2) Misgendering me for example, even the unintentional ones causes me to get angry. It becomes very difficult for me to think rationally as I go into fight survival mode because of some things in my past. And in other extreme cases even worse. That is my unique experience however. Yours is/maybe probably different if/when misgendered.

3) I care more about people than I do a fucking game. If someone ever does to you and insists you are male when you say you are female I will defend you rather staunchly. However your use of ‘he’ in quotes implies you really don’t believe I am male. Along with the ‘mistreatment’ in quotes same thing.

4) Even if it is not as damaging to you it is/can be more damaging to someone else. Using yourself as a pain meter tbh should be a last resort always the other person. But I have a hypothetical for you (note I in no way condone child abuse)

Assume two muscled up people are having fun sparring in a gym. Each person knows the rules and knows how to not hurt each other. Then one of those muscled up people grabs a baby. “We can take punches so can this baby.” The other nods but a Good Samaritan or someone with common sense/is a decent human being stops them.

Babies can’t take punches. In this case I am a baby. I cannot take being misgendered intentionally. It is something I am working on but with some of the experiences I have had that is difficult for me.

This site is very trans friendly one of the reasons I do love it and the world is rapidly moving towards treating people as who they are. Please just apologize and move on. I am trying to work to get my scumreads lynched. If you really think it is me and Not Mafia work on Not Mafia with your partner

[OnTheMark]

I literally struggle with logic and other things when I am angry.

I become a bull in a china shop I can’t fucking function.

Like it’s why I cannot play with transphobic people. But as they realize their errors my blacklist is smaller over time.

[OnTheMark]

So momo is still scum people.

[OnTheMark]

Let’s lynch momo I am out all day at dnd.

[OnTheMark]

And yes, I am blaming you for other's action to prove a point. When I do it to others, it's unforgivable, but when others do it to me, it's okay. Somehow that doesn't sit well with me.

It’s not forgivable I already said this.

If I find anyone do this to you I will defend you as I said.

Now we are playing mafia and I am enjoying my dnd.

If you wish to discuss this further postgame go ahead.

We have been asked to stop as there is no resolution in sight. You’re not going to apologize and I accept that. So my actions change accordingly so we can play mafia.

[OnTheMark]

Yeah, see, I'm not sure I believe the flipless claim

+1

[OnTheMark]

well, MOMO is getting replaced. Let's see what their replacement has to say about it.

How exactly do you see this going down?

If they rescind we lynch the slot.
If they don’t rescind we lynch the slot.

The replacement barring some miracle none of us has seen needs rope

[OnTheMark]

Even if the flipless claim is real, I don't want it going to LYLO

+1

[OnTheMark]

Even if the flipless claim is real, I don't want it going to LYLO

How the fuck are you going to know when lylo is
If the flipless claim is real

Just autolynch momo in lylo

At least you'll know their alignment if the game continues

No. Then if momo is town as you claim that is an auto loss.

That is never a thing.

If momo’s flipless is real we assume momo was town and just move lylo up.

I have played in more flipless games than probably any of you have.

Trust me on this.

[OnTheMark]

Flipless is one of my strengths.

The only person ever to fool me in a flipless still got caught in end game because e played suboptimally to do it.

[OnTheMark]

While flipful I can be good or craptastic flipless I am good.

It’s just weird :/

[OnTheMark]

Nah, Betegeusing isn't a scumtell.

It's a creepytell.

Use the HURT tags as a placeholder vote if you like.

I-I'm creepy?



b-but I'm your biggest fan, Pine-kun~

Don’t worry Lady. My files have already been modified to where I stare dreamily into your gorgeous orbs and write you poems about our townie ness. Our forbidden masonry denied because my PM lacks me being a mason. But love beats true all the same.

Who should I asceticize for tonight y’all?

[OnTheMark]

Mastina is often wrong.

The problem is that Mastina is the only way we pull Nico out of her deathtunnel. Assuming scum doesn't bus or self-vote, that's four votes down.

And this is a group where consensus is like herding cats.

Why do we have LLD as Town again?

Because she’s gorgeous (mainly I just know her <3)

Call it a friend read.

[OnTheMark]

No no, I don't think you're scum, Dino.

I'd be down to lynch Mimi's partner first, but there's no consensus on who that is. I think it's Nahdia.

Nah.

Let’s Lynch the player we all agree is scum, then the others.

If we all agree momo is scum but later evidence proves he is town then we have evidence to go back and reevaluate.

A scum in the hand is worth more than two in the bush.

[OnTheMark]

This isn't a fucking flipless game
We have one scum down
If another goes down, Eddie is effectively no longer flipless

So if you guys only think he's scum because I'm his scumpartner, it is strictly more optimal to flip me and sheep my reads

I'm still never scum this game and I'm annoyed that 0 people have done the work to meta me (no this isn't bullshit self meta)
But whatever works

It isn’t 100% flipless yes.

But I do know strategies in general. Momomen cannot be allowed to go to lylo and should be lynched today or the latest tomorrow.

And furthermore based on the meta I do have of you, you in general try to break setups and get people to a single target. I do not see you being in a commandeering or leadership role. I have not seen you as scum but this doesn’t match the game I played with you before. It’s a huge reason why I scumread you.

[OnTheMark]

Yes that game had an optimal strategy according to you.

However I would still expect a lot of the same emotional tells to come across to your scumhunting I don’t see here. You’re just not leadery enough for me to think you are town.

[OnTheMark]

zMuffinMan replaces in for MOMOMEN.

Your slot claimed flipless Miller ZMuffinMan.

Do you confirm this?

[OnTheMark]

zMuffinMan replaces in for MOMOMEN.

Your slot claimed flipless Miller ZMuffinMan.

Do you confirm this?

phew, lucky i didn't confirm this without checking

you're lying to me; that's not my fake-claim

good try, though!

So you aren’t flipless?

And you aren’t a Miller?

[OnTheMark]

realistically speaking, where do you see this conversation going?

this ain't my first time at the rodeo and if i were scum, i'd have read everything my predecessor claimed before posting

you tried, it failed, let's leave it there and move on, shall we?

i think you're probably town, though, so at least this wasn't a completely fruitless endeavour

With you accurately claiming whether you are flipless and if you are Miller or you die.

And yes you could read the scum PT. I am not looking for consistency. I am looking for how you answer it.

[OnTheMark]

whenever someone has said to me "do X or you die", they've never successfully made me die after i refused

perhaps you'll be the first!

I am not alone. I aim to lynch scum. Of which you almost certainly are if you don’t claim any neg mods you have or don’t have.

[OnTheMark]

whenever someone has said to me "do X or you die", they've never successfully made me die after i refused

perhaps you'll be the first!

I am not alone. I aim to lynch scum. Of which you almost certainly are if you don’t claim any neg mods you have or don’t have.

well, since you're allowing me to claim ones i do

or

don't have, i'm a lynchproof bulletproof hated miller gladiator beloved princess PGO super saint

and a jester... which makes no sense to me, but i guess is cheetory's idea of a joke

You realize this is serious? It looks like you’re trying to get lynched at this point?

[OnTheMark]

VOTE: zMuffinMan

[OnTheMark]

I am not. You are, though!

I'd be concerned about Jester, but Momo wasn't playing the Jester's game, and this smells like a scheme to weasel out of Momo's claim with a Rolecop on the table, while also trying to avoid lynch.

Deeeeefinitely want to lynch Muffin now.

Why would you be concerned about Jester when this game is not bastard?

[OnTheMark]

Don’t get me wrong I want to lynch muffin more than you but that is weird.

[OnTheMark]

if there's a rolecop on the table, then why is this even a discussion?

If you were as we thought you’d know why.

[OnTheMark]

Janitored* whatever

Momo claimed on page 1 that he was a self-janitor

Thanks for telling him Pine /sarcasm

I was trying to get other people to see that. Rather than outright state it and get reactions damn it.

[OnTheMark]

oh. then i'm that then

if my predecessor didn't withdraw whatever fake-claim he was using, then i would be remiss to think i know better

so i'm sticking with whatever my predecessor fake-claimed. whatever that happens to be

So I am probably the first.

And then once you flip it’s Pine or Dino.

[OnTheMark]

Yes. That’s why you see how far he’s take it.

We could have found the other scum or eliminated some people as partners the more we played stupid.

[OnTheMark]

Yes. That’s why you see how far he takes it.

We could have found the other scum or eliminated some people as partners the more we played stupid.

[OnTheMark]

So like, are you flipless or not? Could you please answer without all the subterfuge and layers of irony?

At this point til he does I am just assuming he is caught scum and I would advise others to do the same.

[OnTheMark]

you know, if onthemark had just asked about the flipless part, i'd have (probably) given him a straight answer

but he added the

oh so very clever

"miller" part to the question (*clap* *clap* i've never seen anyone do that before - i can't even comprehend the sheer genius required to come up with such a cunning plan that would

definitely

fool anyone who's played more than a couple games of mafia) and refused to drop it when i asked him to

so now i'm going to be treating him as though his intelligence is at the level of someone who thinks what he asked me is a good question. thus i'm either going to ignore any further questions/requests from him or reply with remarks that should make my utter contempt for his play obvious

sorrynotsorry

if anyone else has questions about anything or wants to steer me towards something and ask for my input, go ahead

don't ask me any more stupid questions about the flipless thing, though. everything that needs to be said about it was already said in #4260

Yes *rolls eyes*

Because I listen to scum asking me to not grill them. Sounds like a brilliant plan! /sarcasm

[OnTheMark]

And I get insulted for wanting an answer. Hooray! Makes me even more likely to care!

Warning: Sarcasm meter is broken please repair.

[OnTheMark]

I do think what I asked is a good line of questioning since it confirmed you as scum.

Yeah it’s pretty not likely to work. But there’s 0% risk to doing it and all the reward if I am right.

So yeah, I’ll keep doing it. Thanks for the “advice”.

Let me know when you decide to fake scum hunting that will be comedic.

[OnTheMark]

Wait, this game is so confusing.

Is Muffin saying that Momo lied? or jsut refusing to address it.

Refusing to address it.

[OnTheMark]

He’s kinda done both. He implied at first that he wasn’t a janitor, acted confused when it was brought up, then disengaged.

Yeah that.

[OnTheMark]

Which happens more often than you might think.

I didn’t realize my predecessor had claimed Miller
Said I wasn’t and managed to wiggle out of it
Get universally townread
Then due to some meanies get depressed not care and then got scumread and died in a way that let my buddies coast.

So I’d actually believe you there

[OnTheMark]

You’re trying to make something sound extreme which is entirely reasonable.

[OnTheMark]

(I can tell you are being sarcastic)

When you can wreck a 42 Player game and win what became a 17 player game with 2 scum and have a damn good win record as scum tease me. Your scum team only wishes I was scum then you’d have a shot in hell.

[OnTheMark]

So I mean if you wanna say someone who “sucks” as town caught you feel free. I will stay here enjoying myself and watching you flame out and have red text on your flip.

[OnTheMark]

And I have won as confirmed scum and came close to winning as mod confirmed scum

And in a third town let me hammer despite me trolling the entire day

Trust me. Scum is easy. Town is hard as hell, mainly because I play it true don’t leave manipulative statements.

Pedit

I am horrible town, but ask anyone here, as scum I am damn good.

[OnTheMark]

Now now, a gentleman doesn’t play and tell.

If you want advice on how to be better Mafia then feel free to look at my scum games. I have work to do.

[OnTheMark]

That just means they are good town.

Doesn’t mean shit about their scum game dude.

[OnTheMark]

VOTE: Nahdia

Booooo

One of MathDino/Pine is scum with zMuffinMan.

Boooo

The wagon on Nahdia is scum claiming.

Nahdia’s like obvTown

[OnTheMark]

to think that i was repeatedly told this game that beeboy wouldn't do something that risky as town

look here's the state of the game

Nahdia: is beeboy, did that shit. mastina doesn't want to lynch her, and neither do you
Lovebird: beeboy claims to have an Ellibereth-strength metaread on Lovebird. I believe him. Others don't.
MOMOMEN: flipless, shouldn't be lynched
mastina/NicoRobin: claimed masons with each other. mason cop died.
Not_Mafia: i have a strong townread on RedFlavor, his predecessor. on the other hand, he's Not_Mafia and is never really a horrible lynch

Pine/Mathdino: claim even/odd night versions of the same role. said role involves inventions. i don't think the specifics have been claimed. pine acts tonight, is probably a bad lynch.

leaving OTM and LLD

so those are probably the high priority slots

Says he doesn’t want to lynch Nahdia while voting Nadhia.

[OnTheMark]

Prod dodge don’t care atm

[OnTheMark]

Of the current choices MuffinMan is obvScum. Sad we aren’t lynching him.

VOTE: MathDino

[OnTheMark]

No it hasn’t.

“Self meta me I am town”

“I did you’re scum”

“Not that self meta. The meta that makes me look good.”

“You’re just scum.”

[OnTheMark]

MathDino is not scum. Scum does not get an investigative inventor enabler and then give it to Town.

Stop being stupid.

Also, Math may not have known that the Rolecop was given. He targeted *me*, not Mastina. I was given a list of three investigative one-shots, and chose to give the Rolecop to Mastina.

You mean like I clearly didn’t help town in Shadowrun or in the billion other games I was scum in?

Saying scum don’t do something is a recipe for scum to do that very thing.

[OnTheMark]

I don't give a flying fuck about my role
I'm literally trying to figure out how to explain this to you without getting myself banned or force replaced like always

We already had this discussion.

And yes I did.

You explaining away the fact you aren’t leadery enough isn’t going to convince me that you are leaders enough. You know what will convince me? Being leadery enough.

[OnTheMark]

like you've played enough games that you should have seen or at least heard of stuff like 'mafia cop' and other roles of a similar nature

and in a game with at least one wildly antitown role

(#subtlyimplyingimtown)

and a flipped pro-scum role (mason cop), i'd say hedging your bets on "x role is town because scum wouldn't have it" is a not-so-smart thing to do

just a point of caution when considering claims in general here

Lol I am the antitown role. I make a person ascetic each night. If I don’t pick its RNG’d so who am I making ascetic people?

[OnTheMark]

Just make it pine

No reason to target him tonight

Scum say what now?

[OnTheMark]

Mathblade do you ever actually evaluate your play after games and check the accuracy of your tunnels
Or how much sheer time and political capital you waste on them

Like are you trying to tilt me to actually read me?

You still haven't done any of the work I asked
You're using the most simplistic take on my playstyle when my scumgame has also been described as leadery and powerwolfy
You've played one shitty game with me and think you know me

Learn statistics
You know better than this

I always reevaluate after games with the exception of super toxic ones.
And what I find is it inevitably pisses me off and I ask for advice and get told to just not ever speak. Which isn’t advice. Which means remarkably my scum game gets better as rereading those isn’t a complete shit show.

I did do the work you asked. I reached a conclusion you didn’t like. I am horrible at explaining emotions and meta reads but when I do form them they are more often than not right as to compared to other reads.

[OnTheMark]

UNVOTE: Mathdino
I could lynch LLD/Nahdia/Not_Mafia.

I wouldn't really expect to hit scum on any of them.
I wouldn't really expect to hit scum anywhere.
I'd be expecting to hit town.
I've just mostly given up and those are the names which I can be forced into voting right now.

Welcome to my world.

MathDino/Pine/zMuffinMan is my lynch worlds.

[OnTheMark]

Like half of me wants to message cheetory to just end it so we can see how bad everyone's been all game

I abstained because I think it should be up to the original players

I abstained here too because I don’t abandon. But only if everyone else does.

[OnTheMark]

Like never lynch LLD she is one of the few townreads I do have.

[OnTheMark]

Not to mention ignoring the actual content of that proposal
AND the fact that had you fully read the game we both played
You'd know that I never lie about mechanics or optimal play as scum
Because I fucking repeated it like 50 times that game

So why is it a bad idea to asceticize pine

I swear you and the masons are exactly why this game is shit

Because the suggestion is from a scumread.

Anything suggested by a scumread mechanic wise gets ignored. You may be saying what from an outward appearance makes sense but from a good thing may be different. I am quite good at that as mastina can testify to.

If a townread suggests it I will consider it.

[OnTheMark]

There is absolutely no way you read through all the games I've replaced into or we wouldn't be beating around the bush like this

I'm not asking you to do full ISOs, just get a feel for my MO replacing in

I don’t do “get a feel”.

That’s not me.

I have to read an entire game and build a map.

[OnTheMark]

If you intended to ignore a third of the game then you should've asked specific people instead of posing it to the public and being a dick about it

The answer is still relevant later in case my read changes and/or you flip town. The answer isn’t relevant now but maybe later.

I am done talking with you as it is causing lack of enjoyment for someone.

[OnTheMark]

God this game isn't worth getting banned over

Math just put your vote on someone who can viable get lynched for once or vote to abandon

I don’t vote townreads with a lot of time left in the day.

So I will do neither of those things.

Nahdia wishes to not abandon therefore my vote given to Cheetory is not abandon as well.

[OnTheMark]

Math are you going to read the game I asked or not

It's literally a couple posts that I will get banned for if I ever make again

No.

I have no interest in reading posts that were bad and/or potential to be banned and/or bam worthy or however you put it.

I do not see anything here that would be ban worthy or close to that point so I fail to see a pattern.

I am leaving now as I am late for things and this conversation is pissing people off.

[OnTheMark]

I’m town

[OnTheMark]

I have decided I am gonna hit LLD tonight since no one has said anything since LLD is my top townread outside of the masons.

[OnTheMark]

Me too I should like care I just kinda hope I die. :/

[OnTheMark]

i'm only in this to prove myself right so we can BoP LLD later on

people aren't gonna stop shouting that N_M is scum

we should be lynching nahdia or OTM

In other news MathDino is still scum.

[OnTheMark]

Lovebird Pine Zmuffon Mathdino is my pool no particular order

Consider this the weakest of prod dodges since there is time

[OnTheMark]

VOTECOUNT 2.08

Not_Mafia [4]

- zMuffinMan, Nahdia, Mathdino, Pine

Pine [2]

- NicoRobin, Lovebird

MathDino [1]

- OnTheMark

Lady LambdaDelta [1]

- Not_Mafia

Not Voting [2]:

Lady LambdaDelta, mastina

With 10 alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch.
You have (expired on 2018-06-04 18:00:00) to do so.

[OnTheMark]

VOTE: Not Mafia

V

o

t

e

:

N

o

t

_

M

a

f

i

a

Vote: Lovebird

Alright, end this mess.

[OnTheMark]

actually, hold on, sorry

Unvote

is the lover thing permanent? (if pine or not_mafia knows, they can answer; if not, i want to hear this from lovebird)

if it's not permanent it might be worthwhile lynching elsewhere today and settling not_mafia some other day

[OnTheMark]

If my math is correct
Not Mafia - l-2

Pine 2
Mathdino 1
Lovebird 1

[OnTheMark]

Outside shot LLD scum + lovebird town but so remote fucks given zero

Still hitting LLD with ascetic

[OnTheMark]

I don’t know what NM’s role is, that’s not how lovers work

4542 was directed at LLD (who got told his role)

but yeah, i figured as much with regards to what you were told, which is why i figured lovebird would need to clarify

anywho i doubt it's temporary or it probably would have been mentioned by lovebird already so i'm not getting my hopes up at that

but...

i wonder how angry LLD would get if i said i'm now strongly considering lynching lovebird instead of not_mafia?

I want to lynch Not_Mafia.

I will lynch anyone on my list of 4, as long as you

give me time to change my vote and use my ability.

But yes I'd be annoyed. I am far mroe confident in N_M being scum, especially with how he's handled everything since his wagon has grown.

How long do you need to change your vote again?

[OnTheMark]

Vote: Lovebird

Alright, end this mess.

You realize this means you have right up until close to deadline before you can change it yeah? Will you be online?

[OnTheMark]

Are you scum?

That post pings me fierce and I don’t know why.