My reads have been better than yours so far.In post 2058, Shoshin wrote:Key's scum. That reads list is terrible.
Most of the time you’re voting people whose playstyle you don’t like. Most of time on non alignment indicative factors.
My reads have been better than yours so far.In post 2058, Shoshin wrote:Key's scum. That reads list is terrible.
I was watching Lord of the rings the Two towers, but I was reading her posts on my phone.In post 2053, Shoshin wrote:It would take him literally two seconds to help me out... but he can't help because he's too busy rereading Mom's posts? It's bullshit, Skitter. Fake reason, too.
Do you confidently t/lean any of Skitter, BS, TW, Mom?In post 2058, Shoshin wrote:That reads list is terrible.
Sadly not right now. Something just hasn't clicked right or you haven't communicated that connection between you and me/other players.In post 2062, the worst wrote:I'm obvtown
...but if you'd read my posts you'd know exactly how I feel about Not Mafia.In post 2064, Bernie Sanders wrote:I'm not upset. I actually went into why I probably wouldn't ultimately lynch N_M here despite him easily being possibly scum because I think momrangal is hardscumming it up. But that doesn't mean I don't want to know how you arrived. Actually if you read my posts, which I thought you did but now I'm doubting, I was pretty much asking for you go into your reads and summarise somewhat overall (which you've now done in response to shoshin).In post 2046, Keyser Söze wrote:Then why get upset me saying I have NM as null and unlikely to vote him today?In post 2044, Bernie Sanders wrote:I don't get it because I'm not even pushing N_M.
Something something you were the N1 kill?In post 2068, the worst wrote:huh?In post 2063, Keyser Söze wrote:Sadly not right now. Something just hasn't clicked right or you haven't communicated that connection between you and me/other players.In post 2062, the worst wrote:I'm obvtown
Why did you enter the day with that bad nightphase/pr spec/hinting? (scared me)
I’m not town reading Mom, but my will to kill her today has weakened.In post 2090, Shoshin wrote:Like, it makes sense for people who scumread Gamma to reevaluate their reads, because Gamma flipped town. But it's not so clear why Key's reevaluating in the way he is when he townread Gamma...
I also voted Mom at EoD and asked the mod to amend the VC.In post 2104, Irrelephant11 wrote:Keyser has voted for Skitter30 and Bernie Sanders D1, and so far those are ALL of his votes???
Spot on. That's exactly the paranoia that has been running through my head D1 and D2.In post 1881, Momrangal wrote:From your point of view, we're either scum together, hes scum saving me for tomorrow (today) or hes town being pretty erratic.
Awww Irrelephant, if I scum read you will you feel better about me?In post 2128, Irrelephant11 wrote:What do you mean? You’ve never anything but townread me, iirc
@skitter30 - would you put my name in there now, of players Nauci should consider to re-evaluate?In post 2148, skitter30 wrote:mom > tw > irrelephant > errant > bvIn post 2125, Nauci wrote:Priorities for me are evaluating, in this order, momrangal, bv, errant, tw, Shoshin, Irrelephant unless Keyser/Skitter have suggestions
This does sound awfully familiar.In post 2170, Nauci wrote:Spoiler: Mathdino Case on The Worst in Open 719
Well since I am having a little trouble deciding how to feel about The Worst refusing to respond to any of my questions (any of anyone's questions?), I went to look up a little wisdom. We all are sad Math isn't here and think he's pretty good at reading The Worst, Not_Mafia, and more, right? So here's Math's posts casing TW from our game. And some quotes from TW on his own scum play from somewhere else.
I'll let y'all decide for yourselves if this stuff applies here because I don't want to confbias, I only want to provide evidence. I have to go find some The Town games but preferably when it's not 6 AM.
Why didn’t you join the TW or Momrangel wagons? They’re the two likeliest lynchs for D2.In post 2177, Not_Mafia wrote:I wanna lynch someone
She said for reactions...? Bait scum? The protection may not even be the reason why there was no NK...In post 2346, Gustavo wrote:I’ll keep quoting this until somebody explains why town doctor would vote the person they most likely saved from a NK.In post 2337, Gustavo wrote:In post 2331, Gustavo wrote:If I was a doctor who protected somebody and there wasn’t a Nk, I certainly would never vote them or worry that they voted the same person as me.
But hey I’m different I guess
This isn’t about tunneling cause I’m not voting the claimed doctor anymore, but this is about evaluating if the claim makes sense with the persons actions.
People seem to believe the claim at face value but this isn’t the time to just believe things at face value.
It was a half truth. I was watching a film, reading through Mom’s D2 posts on my phone.In post 2352, Shoshin wrote:Why'd you make up a bullshit excuse if you never intended to post links? And why get upset when I called you out for spewing bullshit? That doesn't make sense to me.In post 2348, Keyser Söze wrote:I didn’t call you rude, I was saying I didn’t want to be rude (because I was holding back vulgar language directed at you).
You caught me at a bad time, and I felt your scum narrative regarding my motivation to not post links to all my town/scum games was reachy/inane/disgenuine.
I do admit my reaction made something innocent into something that has been blown out of proportion.
In post 2101, Keyser Söze wrote:NotMafia is offwagon and could quickhammer. I think he’s infamous for that.
Yes I had my EoD1 vote on Mom...In post 2447, Gustavo wrote:I don’t think VCA clears Keyser.
1. That would be badscum/lazy distancing play.In post 2457, Gustavo wrote:1. Distancing and avoiding a mislynchIn post 2453, Keyser Söze wrote:Yes I had my EoD1 vote on Mom...In post 2447, Gustavo wrote:I don’t think VCA clears Keyser.
Yes, I had Mom in my bottom two scum reads on D2 but never voted for him..
Yes, I asked Mom to roleclaim at L-2 way before the deadline...
Yes, I decided to kickstart the TW wagon instead of jumping on the lead wagon...
But you’ll find the reasons why all in my ISO.
If you do not understand my motivation in any of the above I’ll explain.
2. That’s part of why I scum read you. Putting buddies as scum but not pushing them is common scum play
3. And?
4. And?
Nothing you just said makes me think I’m wrong.
Does any know Mom’s scum meta well enough to know if she comes into D1 posting that on her scum partner?In post 51, Momrangal wrote:Zzz
This is great and all but let's all build a wagon on actual scum
VOTE: invisible
I bet you a million dollars there is at least one scum in his ‘null’ pile.In post 513, Momrangal wrote:Irrelephant11
Shoshin
stungun0404
Keyser Soze
Mathdino
Bernie
Nauci
the worst
northsidegal*
Invisibility
Gamma Emerald
skitter
That's where I stand. Moved invis with meta considered
Hmm... would Mom say her scum partner Bennie is going after low hanging fruit scum partner The Worst..? Probably not.In post 794, Momrangal wrote:I am rethinking my read on Bernie, and I think he's going after low hanging fruit duck.
Bernie made a huge ass case on duck, and his tone and I agree with the lack of direction but I entirely disagree with duck being given enough space. I have that slot as null, but I honestly don't find his pred scummy outside the supposed semi-trustish whatever tell you want to call it regarding him replacing out. Even if whatsherface and skits (I think it was) told each other that they were excited to play the same alignment, I don't think replacing out should ever be alignment indicative and no one really has given duck a chance to do more than get his feet wet.
He even said that the wagon would have zero effect because he lacks time and wouldn't have it later in the week but absolutely no one has payed attention to that little tidbit.
Further more, this case on duck came when after duck said he wouldn't have any time to defend himself, and after duck is at a vulnerable L-2 (1?) position making it completely viable that duck gets lynched before he even had more time to get himself busy.
He also pushes duck but still takes a wholly neural stance on the matter so that, when popular scum read duck flips town, he can take the blame off himself considerably easier than most others gunning for his lych
This is what helped to stir Mom-BS bad feels in me on D1. Mom was talking about BS alot but not following it up with a vote...In post 804, Momrangal wrote:What do you think about bernie
Hard defence of TW. Wow, would Mom really defend her scum partner like this??In post 809, Momrangal wrote:Also, I feel like everyone has made a decision on duck based on his pred replacing out.
Sure it was weird, but Gemini was engaging before she ghosted. It doesn't seem like no one had taken into consideration that she replaced out because of IRL reasons and it didn't seem like anyone looked for proof in other games she might be in.
That being said, duck has 30 pages to read to catch up on and that's not an easy feat
I like this as Mom talking to a townie here.In post 1883, Momrangal wrote:Elephant is a town read, and i feel like hes succumbing to a bit of paranoia. I dont really like it when i have pretty confident townreads and i cant really work with them
Why am I back down there below BV?In post 2470, Irrelephant11 wrote:My reads post-flips, mostly independent of vca, would be something like
Gustavo
Bernie
skitter
errantparabola
nauci
blackvoid
keyser
the worst
not_maf
with an acknowledgment that I have this feeling that one scum is in my blind spot
Nearly missed this...
If he gives false info he gets insta-lynched?In post 2480, skitter30 wrote:i don't believe like any of this ftr
Then you don’t mind all these weird votes?In post 2501, the worst wrote:yes, transparentlyIn post 2500, Keyser Söze wrote:Are you waiting for reactions/players to post TW?
I hope you made this as town brotherIn post 2123, Errantparabola wrote:
Gonna sheep this.
Your reaction was pretty shit mate. You don’t vote for a claimed PR. Scum may have a double voter. Then the info would have died with TW. So no, my reaction was not the worst. Thank you .In post 2515, Irrelephant11 wrote:Trying to parse what a scum reaction to a town!tw would look like and I think it looks like Keyser, or silence
He’s not L-1 and please don’t defend him. If you keep reinforcing his playstyle I don’t get to see a reaction.In post 2521, Gustavo wrote:That’s a bad vote. NM is always useless. Voting them won’t help
I liked the possibility of this being a gambit. If he’s suicidal scum here I don’t understand his motivation. All of D2 he deserved to die. So the idea of him being a town PR kind of makes sense now. If my bottom two reads were scum then I’m happy and will leave this game.In post 2525, Irrelephant11 wrote:See this isn’t true though, I’ve seen NM play in a helpful way at least twice (once in a game I replaced into, once in a game i spectated). He’s capable of being pro-town if he is town, even while keeping o his quiet meta, and is choosing not to beIn post 2521, Gustavo wrote:That’s a bad vote. NM is always useless. Voting them won’t help
Pedit: wow for someone who thinks I’m town “pretty shit mate” is, surprising?? Like tw basically claimed PR at the start of D2, if not D1, and scum hasn’t touched him. It’s also part of his scum meta to claim pr. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to vote tw right now, thanks, and that’s why I am leaning town!peoplevotingtw, because only scum would know to believe him/have incentive to pretend to believe him.
<3In post 2539, the worst wrote:You think you can catch scum? You think guys like that come this close to getting caught, and stick their heads out?
If they come up for anything it'll be to get rid of me. After that... my guess is you'll never hear from them again.
I prefered your Gustavo avatar. Reminded me how much I loved that show. Plus was gonna do roleplay tomorrow. Will change it to EP's read diagram if he's townIn post 2540, Gustavo wrote:Heisenberg avatar on Keyser Söze seems kind of weird to me. Why not a Keyser Söze avatar?
Again, I don't think this is the way Mom describes/defends their scumpartner (the worst). She's begging for us to give TW a chance to prove themselves, and try to see past that suspicious replace out by Gemini.In post 794, Momrangal wrote:I am rethinking my read on Bernie, and I think he's going after low hanging fruit duck.
Bernie made a huge ass case on duck, and his tone and I agree with the lack of direction but I entirely disagree with duck being given enough space. I have that slot as null, but I honestly don't find his pred scummy outside the supposed semi-trustish whatever tell you want to call it regarding him replacing out. Even if whatsherface and skits (I think it was) told each other that they were excited to play the same alignment, I don't think replacing out should ever be alignment indicative and no one really has given duck a chance to do more than get his feet wet.
He even said that the wagon would have zero effect because he lacks time and wouldn't have it later in the week but absolutely no one has payed attention to that little tidbit.
Further more, this case on duck came when after duck said he wouldn't have any time to defend himself, and after duck is at a vulnerable L-2 (1?) position making it completely viable that duck gets lynched before he even had more time to get himself busy.
He also pushes duck but still takes a wholly neural stance on the matter so that, when popular scum read duck flips town, he can take the blame off himself considerably easier than most others gunning for his lych
Why did you vote Mom?
Do you dislike any of the votes on Momrangel on D2 (i.e do you think his wagon was full of 7 townies)?In post 2580, Not_Mafia wrote:This isn't a bus voteIn post 2568, Keyser Söze wrote:Why did you vote Mom?
Did you decide to start reading the game?
Tell me why this isn’t a bus vote.
In post 2590, Gustavo wrote:I like keyser as scum because he wasn't on the lynch but asked for a claim. You ask for a claim when someone is at L-1 and intent is given, you don't ask at l-2. i don't really see him pushing hard for that lynch either. like he didn't want to bus which makes sense as they would lose day talk.
In post 2593, Gustavo wrote:VOTE: not mafia
I want him to either start playing the game or gtfo. I can't accurately read somebody who doesn't allow himself to be read.
Good, that's why your earlier post annoyed me. It was reinforcing his playstyle. In the website I'm from we have a zero tolerance for that, which forces them to break out of their unreadable playstyle. It makes the game more enjoyable too. If NotMafia is a genius and can name me Mom's two scum partners, then please continue. Otherwise, please play as a team.In post 2597, Gustavo wrote:yes I realize what I said earlier. I'm fine with letting him get lynched now. he is either scum or town playing against his win condition.
@GustavoIn post 2547, Keyser Söze wrote:Again, I don't think this is the way Mom describes/defends their scumpartner (the worst). She's begging for us to give TW a chance to prove themselves, and try to see past that suspicious replace out by Gemini.In post 794, Momrangal wrote:I am rethinking my read on Bernie, and I think he's going after low hanging fruit duck.
Bernie made a huge ass case on duck, and his tone and I agree with the lack of direction but I entirely disagree with duck being given enough space. I have that slot as null, but I honestly don't find his pred scummy outside the supposed semi-trustish whatever tell you want to call it regarding him replacing out. Even if whatsherface and skits (I think it was) told each other that they were excited to play the same alignment, I don't think replacing out should ever be alignment indicative and no one really has given duck a chance to do more than get his feet wet.
He even said that the wagon would have zero effect because he lacks time and wouldn't have it later in the week but absolutely no one has payed attention to that little tidbit.
Further more, this case on duck came when after duck said he wouldn't have any time to defend himself, and after duck is at a vulnerable L-2 (1?) position making it completely viable that duck gets lynched before he even had more time to get himself busy.
He also pushes duck but still takes a wholly neural stance on the matter so that, when popular scum read duck flips town, he can take the blame off himself considerably easier than most others gunning for his lych
If TW is scum this is actually some impressive anti-distancing from Momrangel here.
Perhaps this really is scum attacking town for going after lynchbait (and I had Bernie and TW completely wrong on D2)
Read Momrangel's D1 ISO, there was nothing exciting to chew on, or get aggressive about, I personally wasn't convinced of her scum flip...In post 2591, Irrelephant11 wrote:Reading his past games, he seems to have an aggressive side when he thinks he's found scum that he seems to be trying to reign in this game
I had nothing tangible to explore, and no one-on-one interactions with Mom to draw tone from.In post 1583, Keyser Söze wrote:Unfortunately PoE.In post 1577, Irrelephant11 wrote:talk to me more about why you think mom is scummy, I feel like she's been nearly scumsensus for awhile but I never understood the case after "she had a bad entrance"
If you exclude the early fixation of Invisibility (think you could label him lynchbait), you would be hard pressed to give a definitive scum case.
Confirm bias has effected my read of them (based on their interactions with BS and Gamma).
Am I confident? Hell no.
I hope he roleclaims in the next 7 days We need time to chat about the claim / form a counter wagon.In post 2607, Nauci wrote:24 hours without elaborating on his claim (likely because he didn't find anything to help him make something plausible up?).
These delay tactics. Ugh.
Yes, Mom was attacking Bernie for going after low hanging fruit (TW).In post 2612, Gustavo wrote:I think given the mom scum flip, bernie looks town. mom is basically trying to discredit bernie in that post for his push on the worst. why would mom need to do that if the worst was town?
Yes.In post 2615, Not_Mafia wrote:NopeIn post 2597, Gustavo wrote:yes I realize what I said earlier. I'm fine with letting him get lynched now. he is either scum or town playing against his win condition.
In post 1918, BlackVoid wrote:I'm ant as scum would need to lynch Nauci specifically. If he can get Nauci to back off with an emotional-type appeal, that's just as good for him.
[.
[Bernie and Nauci pushes as well.
I noticed that too but my impression was that they wanted to swing momentum onto another viable-looking wagon as an alternative to TheWorst. I didn't like how Momrangal defended both Irrelephant and TheWorst and pushed their attackers and tried to get a wagon going elsewhere.In post 823, skitter30 wrote:intersting to note that mom votes nauci and duckling moves his vote off of mom onto nauci. i'm *pretty* sure from voting patterns that mom and duckling aren't scum together even though mom's defending him; the timing of their votes don't really feel like partners to me.
If by "agenda," you mean Nauci's push on Irrelephant, how do you differentiate between scum pushing a agenda and town pushing their scumreads when they develop a read they feel confident in? I'm not sure what agenda is being served by going all-out on D1 talking about how good Irrelephant is as scum and hard-pushing a case and trying to convince a lot of people that their townread is wrong as opposed to going for an easier lynch, bringing up Irrelephant-paranoia later on. People are generally more willing to lynch good scumplayers out of paranoia if they are alive too long than on D1.In post 923, the worst wrote:she feels less attached and engaged here and I cannot shake the feeling that her posting is pushing an agenda and specific preconceived stances rather than actively forming opinions fluidly as she goes.
I've caught up to page 47. I'll take a break and continue later. I don't think I'll read the whole game today but I'll try to finish up before I leave for work tomorrow.
I need a town clear before I change my avatar!In post 2663, Errantparabola wrote:Why is me being town so confusing to you?!?!?!?!?!?
Sounds like TW got a guilty, and EP didn’t roleblock/NK TW, knowing that’d he’d target (BV?).In post 2479, the worst wrote:thank you. I kept trying to discreetly tell people that keeping me alive was good. >:/
for the record EP plays a part in why I had such a lovely night.
Let’s wait to hear from TWIn post 2685, Nauci wrote:WatIn post 2674, Keyser Söze wrote:Sounds like TW got a guilty, and EP didn’t roleblock/NK TW, knowing that’d he’d target (BV?).In post 2479, the worst wrote:thank you. I kept trying to discreetly tell people that keeping me alive was good. >:/
for the record EP plays a part in why I had such a lovely night.
@the worst?
Is this the best way to scum hunt on D3?In post 2689, Not_Mafia wrote:Chance of being scum in this game: 23.08%
Chance of a neighbouriser being scum: 25%
therefore
VOTE: Errantparabola
It sounded like EP and TW shared a PT N2... TW said he was going to investigate BV.In post 2686, Irrelephant11 wrote:Yeah wait what?
Whose reaction are you waiting for? Which player are you waiting to post? Are you waiting for me to counter claim?In post 2501, the worst wrote:yes, transparentlyIn post 2500, Keyser Söze wrote:Are you waiting for reactions/players to post TW?
Yes, there is surprisingly some good evidence for anti-distancing via Momrangel’s posts talking about TW. I came out of reading Mom’s ISO liking TW moreIn post 2764, BlackVoid wrote:I'm reading Momrangal's ISO right now so I'll post comments on interactions as I read them.
On TheWorst, I actually think there are some things that point away from him being scum. Like the last sentence of 1297. It seems like Momra caught a crumb from TheWorst and used that as a reason to divert away from him knowing he has a claim up his sleeve to prevent his mislynch. 794 on Bernie - feels like she's trying to set up Bernie for a TheWorst townflip. 2261 is another post where Momra picks up on TheWorst's soft claim and it feels genuine enough as not a scum-scum interaction.
I think the vote on Nauci in 799 is pretty odd. I don't know what it says about Nauci's alignment but I'm going to read the context.
I also want to point out that Momra reluctantly backed off of her Invisibility push after Shoshin pushed her hard on it suggests that Not_Mafia is town.
You trust Not Mafia more than me?In post 2776, BlackVoid wrote:If me, skitter, Bernie, and Gustavo can all trust each other, the odds of this game being a town win go way up.
Outside of that I'm not really sure which of the other six players are scum. I do think Not_Mafia is the likeliest to be town among them but it's not as solid as my other reads. That still leaves about five people that I need to sort through: Nauci, Irrelephant, Keyser Soze, TheWorst, ErrantP.
Apologies - I forgot it was you who made post #2764 too. Tbh you're one of the few (if not only) players presenting N_M as town.In post 2780, BlackVoid wrote:You really should read the thread more closely. I explained my Not_Mafia townread over the last page. You can't arbitrarily claim that people should be in everyone's null zone. The whole point of this game is to figure out alignments. When you can't do it through their content (such as with Not_Mafia), you do it through how they interacted with flipped scum, what their predecessors did, and how flipped scum interacted with them. It's a fact that Momrangal started off making a hard push on Invis. It's a fact that N_M hammered Momrangal before she could draw out a claim. Those are points indicating slight town.
My read on you is actually pending until I read through your ISO with flip in mind. I'm not yet sure whether I trust you more than N_M. I'll figure out an order to my reads once I read through everyone and make a list.
I bet he’ll claim at the end of the weekend.
Now, if I was scum and read this at the start of D3 (and feared ‘town’-TW had likely got a guilty on my scum partner)
VOTE: the worstIn post 2908, Bernie Sanders wrote:TW definitely did not gunsmith check anyone last night.
Scum-Bernie Sanders was being town read by the majority of the playerlist.In post 3018, the worst wrote:still flipping town
In post 5096, brassherald wrote:In post 5095, brassherald wrote:/in to mod
Game Name:American Presidents Mafia
Flavor/Mechanics:In the distant future, a crisis of corruption in the United States Senate requires 13 senators to submit their DNA and work with an American President that most fits their personality.
Your Experience:Open 721: Pick Your Poison
Current Modding Commitments:None, but will be backup modding Cul de Sac in the Open Queue
Reviewed By:Lycanfire, insanity018
Back-Up or Co-Mod:HeWhoSwims
Number of Players:13
Hydrae:Sure, up to 3.
Restrictions:None
.Is it possible your game has any of the following bastard roles or mechanics? NoOh, it's a closed set up with normal roles. I forgot to say that.
So we’re hunting a mafia roleblocker?In post 2951, Bernie Sanders wrote:I got the no result n1 (tried to check N_M there FTR) and asked mod to specify it actually was a no result and not a no-visit. This one is clearly a no-visit.
So we’re dealing with a Mafia ninja then..?In post 3060, Nauci wrote:Oops I somehow missed that he started NM n1. That's big
I think the only "no result" ones would be roleblocker or jailer? Ninja would give "no visit"
Are you calling Nauci and Irrelephant scum?In post 3079, Not_Mafia wrote:Irrelephant maybeIn post 3077, Keyser Söze wrote:Who?In post 3076, Not_Mafia wrote:I'm town let's lynch someone else
Irrelephant11’s is very likely a Vanilla Townie.
Gut feelings are fine, but it’s not going to convince the other town players to join you, or convince them of your reads or own alignment.In post 3108, Gustavo wrote:NM doesn’t scum hunt. He’s a gut/feels player. He’s admitted that in a game we played. So don’t expect anything more than what you are already getting.In post 3105, Keyser Söze wrote:We have time to talk about BV and our collective ‘town’ reads
I was hoping N_M was gonna show me signs of his famous scum hunting ‘skill’.
I’m not quite sure that was N_M’s thought process but yes Gustavo is a player we can relook at while we wait for BV’s promised reply to Nauci’s case.In post 3106, Irrelephant11 wrote:I mean if NM somehow sees with astounding clarity that BV was telling the truth, was the N1 target, and that Gustavo has been coasting on Shoshin's semi-Gus-clear, good on him I guess
I agree it doesn't seem very likely
It is if you have a town win con. I have statistical evidence to prove that townies have a better chance of winning by working togetherIn post 3113, Not_Mafia wrote:Not my problemIn post 3111, Keyser Söze wrote:Gut feelings are fine, but it’s not going to convince the other town players to join you, or convince them of your reads or own alignment.In post 3108, Gustavo wrote:NM doesn’t scum hunt. He’s a gut/feels player. He’s admitted that in a game we played. So don’t expect anything more than what you are already getting.In post 3105, Keyser Söze wrote:We have time to talk about BV and our collective ‘town’ reads
I was hoping N_M was gonna show me signs of his famous scum hunting ‘skill’.
Stungun said he played with gemini (the worst) just last game, so he'd have a good indication if gemini was playing differently. Here, very early, stungun broadcasts to everyone that he's not seeing the same town-gemini who he shared a masonry with. For me, this looks natural...In post 177, stungun0404 wrote:i’d be most prone to join the gemini wagon as of right now because i don’t have any sort of town vibe from her yet, and i shared a town mason with her last game i played. i feel like her questions might have an intent of stirring the pot—so that would be my official reasoning. i would like to see more AI content from her. haven’t gotten much of that yet. i want to give her a chance to give some gamereads first though, because she’s not one i want to gang up on yet. after all, she’s the main reason i decided to join this game (well along with invisibility playing and mwnn’s alt modding). but i can’t deny that something feels off from her content so far.
You could say these two paragraphs are fence-sitting... but Stungun has strongly indicated that this is a scum-indicative replace-out (scum-Stun gun didn't need to reinforce that in our minds). I think the defensive/apologetic tone could be explained by the fact they were fresh from a completed game together... so he didn't want to be too harsh (?).In post 183, stungun0404 wrote:it’s worth noting, actually, that gemini and i stated in a pm before this game that we were really looking forward to being the same faction again this game; so her replacing out might actually be a scum-indicative replace-out, especially with her doing it after she’s put under pressure for the first time. i prompted her to sign up for this game, and we were looking forward to playing with each other again.
but at the same time, this could also mean she’s got things going on irl, that she has general disinterest, or other things. so i want to give her replacement a chance first before i jump to any conclusions from this, but also want to throw it out there since i am town this game and had already sensed that she might be scum. sure enough, it’s a scumlean for me until further content develops, though
stungun challenging the town reads being expressed on Momrangel... why not just let your scum teammate be town read...(?)In post 281, stungun0404 wrote:4 of those reads are fair, but what about momrangal’s 5 posts suggests town to you?
same with shoshin, what about momrangal rings you as town?
stungun directly confronting Shoshin's t/read of Mom... does stungun want t/cred for Mom's scum flip...? Can't see that from here. Has stungun actually even called Mom explicitly scum yet? Feels like a genuine null read that is frustrating him.In post 282, stungun0404 wrote:@shoshin: my question for you is above, why do you townread momrangal?
my answer: their content so far would be extremely easy for scum to hide behind and skate to a victory with if kept up, so i definitely can’t give them even a townlean yet.
Names two mafia...In post 426, stungun0404 wrote:hot take: scum is among bernie, nsg, nauci, momrangal, and the worst
will vote momrangal or nauci if no one is willing to pressure nsg with me.
This looks like a pressure vote, more than a, I think-this-is-scum-lynch-it vote. He emphasizes the fact that he didn't want the wagon going beyond L-3! Scum-stungun wasn't gonna win any town-cred points suggesting that: in a sense he's opposing the mom D1 lynch.In post 428, stungun0404 wrote:eh, i want a clear majority on a player whose not given much substantial content (as in townreads and such), so i’m absolutely not passing up this opportunity.
VOTE: Momrangal
Momrangal is now at L-3, so this slot could only probably fit one more vote for our purposes as of right now, but absolutely no more than that.
Stungun basically stressing his theory that at least one is scum of the replace outs (and not both). Wouldn't scum-Stungun prefer to open up avenues than close them?In post 569, stungun0404 wrote:Meanwhile, just looked through other nsg replace-outs to see if I could gather anything, and lo and behold I came across something suspicious. And given the circumstances, I dofeel confidentin asserting that one of the worst or nsg IS scum, because I feel there’s too much evidence between the two options that would support either replace-out being scum for themto be town. However, if one flips scum, I do find it highly unlikely the other flips scum, because having 2 scum replace-outs on d1 would surely be an outlier type of game. has anybody ever seen that happen?BOTH
stun now opposing the mom wagon and suspicious of the players on mom's wagon!In post 569, stungun0404 wrote:UNVOTE: Momrangal.
Still a null read for me, but I don’t think this slot is official D1 lynch material, and I’m actually more wary of the people that were on her wagon (the worst, nsg, and skitter), so back to the drawing board.
town neighborizor balances out the scum day chat.. (?)In post 3140, Gustavo wrote:I forgot about the neighborizer.
Explain why a townie should be town reading you?
D3:In post 1316, Errantparabola wrote:No longer townreading worst.
In post 2658, Errantparabola wrote:cause i thought he was town d1 and we're friends and i like him
I’ve been reading BV’s 10-post-catch-up... and it does feel like he comes into the game knowing that mom/the worst are scum.In post 2649, Irrelephant11 wrote:Spoiler: Everything BV said about Mom up to 2517
tl;dr THERES A LOT
BV has very much to say about Mom, going so far as to make "Why did you say that about Mom?" a hallmark of his catchup process. He responds to probably more than a third of Mom's posts, critiquing them individually and never having anything positive to say. Maybe it's just me, but right off the bat BV seems informed about Mom's red alignment, aware Mom is a likely lynch for D2, and doing everything possible to stay away.
But that's not all!Blackvoid was the one to suggest both Mom/the worst claim, which given town!the worst sounds like a "hey any chance you're a juicier nk target than Shoshin/how can our team avoid your power?"
Finally, though Blackvoid ostensibly has Mom as her scummiest read, followed by errantparabola, then me, then tw, he says this in his last post of D2: "@Rask, I'm going to do an ISO of both Momrangal and TheWorst before putting down a vote but I'm actually leaning towards TheWorst at this point. Is there anything meta-wise I should know that makes him less likely to be scum?"
I'm kinda hoping it's just the worst and Not_Mafia because that's much easier to make happen but I think there should be a lot more eyes on this slot
Would wagonomics really dispel all of BV’s scum reads/theories/understanding of TW-Mom associations???In post 2342, BlackVoid wrote:The thing that makes me paranoid about the gamestate is that the people I find scummy (like Errant, TW) are okay with a Momrangal wagon and Irrelephant is okay with both. Gamestate-wise, Momra/TW are the two wagons likely to go through soI'm no longer considering them to be partners. One could be scum but not both. I really want to re-evaluate the people outside my strongest townpile but who are not actively in my scumpile which is Nauci/Keyser/Not_Mafia.
I like this post from BV though... it made me see Errant’s t/reads as insincere/unsupported.In post 2575, BlackVoid wrote:@ErrantP, okay let's "connect." I agree that skitter30, Bernie, Gustavo are town although Gustavo for different reasons than you so we're actually on the same page here. But let's talk about your second tier townreads. All of the reasons you posted for them are pretty vague and stuff that could easily come from either alignment that you just seem to be choosing to interpret as town.
Nauci is town for early game reasons and your intuition. Can you explain that some more?
Irrelephant is town to you because he said he was sheeping Bernie on Momrangal. I can understand the argument of "why would scum say they are sheeping when they would want cred for a bus?" But it's not really a strong enough argument to outweigh an existing scumread. I could see scum using that as a reason to hop off because it's a weak reason to begin with. But I'll think this through more when I analyze him in depth.
Keyser-Soze - holding onto an early game townread. A lot has happened since early game though. I'd like to see you comment on what you think of his recent posts. Have they made you doubt that townread or mostly re-inforced them? It would be really helpful if you can get into some specifics because it's a lot easier for me to read people when they give concrete reasons rather than be really vague.
I feel like you and Nauci are looking for a reason to townread Irrelephant rather than analyze his posts and objectively reach a conclusion.
BV, like me, was willing to present the possibility that TW was town...In post 2764, BlackVoid wrote:I'm reading Momrangal's ISO right now so I'll post comments on interactions as I read them.
On TheWorst, I actually think there are some things that point away from him being scum. Like the last sentence of 1297. It seems like Momra caught a crumb from TheWorst and used that as a reason to divert away from him knowing he has a claim up his sleeve to prevent his mislynch. 794 on Bernie - feels like she's trying to set up Bernie for a TheWorst townflip. 2261 is another post where Momra picks up on TheWorst's soft claim and it feels genuine enough as not a scum-scum interaction.
I think the vote on Nauci in 799 is pretty odd. I don't know what it says about Nauci's alignment but I'm going to read the context.
I also want to point out that Momra reluctantly backed off of her Invisibility push after Shoshin pushed her hard on it suggests that Not_Mafia is town.
I actually like the sheer audacity / confidence shown here, which i’d usually lean town.In post 2776, BlackVoid wrote:If me, skitter, Bernie, and Gustavo can all trust each other, the odds of this game being a town win go way up.
This ignorance/derp moment actually feels legit. Surely scum-BV would have been up to date with TW’s scum gambit to fake a guilty on his partner... or at least come prepared to fake some theatre?In post 2776, BlackVoid wrote:3. Can you quote where exactly either Errant or TheWorst said that TheWorst had a result on me?
Why is scum-BV closing down avenues on Errant and Gustavo on D4? BV is automatically placing himself in the PoE, banking everything on N_M flipping red.In post 3235, BlackVoid wrote:I really can't see either errant or gustavo being scum. Gustavo's whole "I'm voting Shoshin and my mind isn't being changed or it'll get toxic" attitude is a bit too far to go as scum. He does switch to Gamma but he backs it up with the accusation that Gamma wasn't voting. Since he used the same argument against me, I believe that he truly believes it.
Can’t 1sbp and you exist in the same set-up?In post 3375, Gustavo wrote:But for lylo it makes more sense than vote me or bv. Trying to decide in lylo if I was shot or he was BP is probably a bad ideaIn post 3373, Keyser Söze wrote:FTR i’d prefer an Errant flip over a BV flip right now...
Reading on.
Factor in the knowledge that we know scum had day chat and a night phase to plan this a potential fake claim gambit... does this effect how you see Errant's interactions/reactions?In post 3360, skitter30 wrote:the neighborizer claim + outing tw + tw interactions when tw fake-claimed all feel super town to meIn post 3352, Keyser Söze wrote:Can people show me why Errant is town outside the neighborizer claim.
nothing earlier than that really felt town
Probably you and BV right now.In post 3379, Gustavo wrote:Let me ask you this. What combo would you rather have in lylo
Me/errant
Bv/errant
Me/bv
I'd vote for BV today,In post 3384, Gustavo wrote:Really? Interesting
Why does scum-stungun broadcast this to everyone?In post 428, stungun0404 wrote:eh, i want a clear majority on a player whose not given much substantial content (as in townreads and such), so i’m absolutely not passing up this opportunity.
VOTE: Momrangal
Momrangal is now at L-3, so this slot could only probably fit one more vote for our purposes as of right now, but absolutely no more than that.
In post 969, Gustavo wrote:It’s like a huge misrep on your part. The worst’s question was valid. He doesn’t have to deny that it was fake. You have the burden of proof to prove it was fake. Innocent until proven guiltyIn post 964, Shoshin wrote:What's your confusion?In post 956, Gustavo wrote:I don’t even know how you reached that conclusion...In post 818, Shoshin wrote:Even this way of defending himself is bullshit. I call something fake, and his response is, "you don't know me well enough to know it's fake." He's not even denying that it's fake... instead he just wants to discredit me...In post 814, the worst wrote:uh pardon me since when do you know me well enough that you can tell what's fake from me? o.0
In post 970, Gustavo wrote:VOTE: shoshin
He’s not a team player. I ask him a few questions and he flails and votes me. By his own definition of what scum is, he’s guilty of being scum.
I’ll see y’all day 2.
In post 975, Gustavo wrote:That’s wifom my friend. I don’t have time to play the wifom game. His iso reeks, his vote on nauci was opportunistic and he refused to explain why, he had doubt yet he stayed on.In post 971, the worst wrote:does this not strike you as a situation scum!Shoshin would try to avoid being in though?
To me that’s scum. I’ll log off and do the rest of my reading and take notes on my own time but for now I have no interest in voting nauci. Have no interest in voting you. I’ll develop more reads later.
Look at Gustavo’s entrance:In post 984, Gustavo wrote:I’m just here to deny I misrepped shoshin. I find it kind of hypocritical since he misrepped the worst.
I’d also like to say my scum game is nothing like my play so far this game and in both of those games he linked, sho did provide some sort of explanation for his vote or reads.
Indeed. I’ve read up to the start on D2 now... Gustavo was very aggressive AND made many very wrong stances:In post 1710, Gustavo wrote:Well I can’t help but be aggressive. That’s how I play
If you’re town, unvote bro.In post 3521, Gustavo wrote:VOTE: gustavo
Clearly I’m getting lynched today so let’s stop wasting time.
Ok, reading through his posts in that game does now admittedly make me want to re-evaluate Gustavo here...In post 3506, BlackVoid wrote:Quick post before leaving for work.
@Keyser, some of the things you townread Gustavo for are things he can do as scum. Specifically, he's the kind of scum player that plays by deluding themselves into thinking that they are town so can have genuine-sounding, stubborn reactions. Here's an ISO of a recent scumgame.
Fair play mate, if he's scum, he's fooled meIn post 3582, Irrelephant11 wrote:and if it's Gustavo idk if I trust Keyser to figure that out atm (sorry Keyser but you keep saying "this thing Gustavo did is scummy so he must be town" - your confbias is showing
Yes, I want to read through Skitter first.In post 3590, Gustavo wrote:I’ll let Keyser get his final thoughts in and then we can end the day
TW's and Mom's partner would not say this.In post 430, skitter30 wrote:Btw I don't think duckling and mom are scum togetherIn post 426, stungun0404 wrote:hot take: scum is among bernie, nsg, nauci, momrangal, and the worst
In post 430, skitter30 wrote:Btw I don't think duckling and mom are scum together
In post 949, skitter30 wrote:i think mom may be wk'ing a tw mislynch
In post 1066, skitter30 wrote:i mean i think she may be scum defending town!tw for the mislynch in the hopes of gaining towncred
In post 1090, skitter30 wrote:i'm pretty confident that the two of them are not s/s tho; i'd be quite surprised if they were because the timing of their votes on you and tw's vote on mom doesn't feel like partners
In post 1338, skitter30 wrote:i feel like her defense of tw may have been a white-knight; it doesn't really feel sincere to me; it feels kinda self-righteous.
Today, I'd probably vote Errant or Gustavo (very reluctantly).In post 3797, BlackVoid wrote:Where are you at with your reads?
'anti-association-type distancing'? If so, Skitter's ISO is infested with distancingIn post 3801, Gustavo wrote:Have you never heard of distancing?In post 3796, Keyser Söze wrote:TW's and Mom's partner would not say this.