NY214: Project Pinecone (Game over! Town wins!)

[Ausuka]

UNVOTE:

My vote is there in spirit but tw needs to say who he'll vig.

[Ausuka]

I feel sad and ignored and sad. You know me and my info might be gone tomorrow right? tho it seems unlikely

...if so I loved this game jsyk

I mean you do want to lynch one player who's confirmed nonscum and one person with an inno claimed on them.

[Ausuka]

So I don't see how I'm supposed to engage with that :/

[Ausuka]

I mean if you shoot HWS you hit loud 0% of the time

I feel like tw should just vig??? idk

[Ausuka]

What happened to Taly?

[Ausuka]

okay then. i guess we'll just risk crosstargets between me/gamma/tw/moi if he's town.

VOTE: profii

[Ausuka]

btw MOI hasn't posted for 5 days and 14 hours.

[Ausuka]

actually is this game abandoned?

[Ausuka]

Nevermind it probably isn't. Let's just hammer profii I think.

[Ausuka]

Why would you vengekill tw

[Ausuka]

(I think he means vengeful townie???)

[Ausuka]

Lynch me and I’m killing TW. He’s a SK

I would point out that regardless of that he is actively helping the town by thinning out the scumpool but I think you know that and are using it so that we won't lynch you so

[Ausuka]

if you think he’s a vig then just lynch someone else

There are a very small number of scum candidates. When 4 mafia members have flipped, we'll lynch TW if the game isn't over.

[Ausuka]

I'm pretty sure that's his way of saying "I'm not telling you who I will shoot." He knows that if he shoots Rask he'll get hanged.

[Ausuka]

sure? i mean i don't buy it for a second but if that's what you want

VOTE: HWS

[Ausuka]

Vengeful Mafia is not allowed and neither is mafia suicide bomber or mafia vigilante

[Ausuka]

idk. I feel like profii is more kind of scummy than kind of vengey.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: profii

[Ausuka]

Just ftr this is why I think profii is scum here.

Normals already ban duplicates (except in obvious cases like Neighbour).

Normals already ban duplicates (except in obvious cases like Neighbour).

I can't find this rule anywhere.

I'm not sure if this rule was implemented or not, actually. It was discussed backstage, but I don't remember if it went through or not.

This conversation was in mid July, well after this game went underway. Both Chickadee and profii have claimed the role Town Vengeful. I feel like if a duplicate game had been passed through the NRG recently there wouldn't have been any uncertainty about this at all. Feel free to correct me if I'm angleshooting myself in the foot / reading too much into it / interpreting incorrectly but that's how I see this.

Additionally I think profii's threats are scum motivated. Town him wants to get lynched so I don't see why he threatens to kill TW. He refuses to listen to people who suggest otherwise so clearly he didn't want to discuss his target- so why did he talk about it? I think in general profii's behaviour here is indicative of someone who doesn't actually want to get lynched.

[Ausuka]

recently there wouldn't have been any uncertainty about this at all. Feel free to correct me if I'm angleshooting myself in the foot / reading

Yeah I know and I addressed this in my post?

[Ausuka]

Prbably

[Ausuka]

Not the fruitvendors but it's useful to not target vigs target right???

[Ausuka]

Yay worst<3

I didn't forget my action.

[Ausuka]

oh hey a clementine

It's MOI's Clementine.

[Ausuka]

I have some idea of claims and flips

Anyone want to help me catch up?

I'm the loyal fruit vendor. Targeted rask n1 and brass n2. I targeted someone else n3 and we're waiting for that person to claim before we proceed.

Brass is activated 1-shot bulletproof who activated n1.

the worst is a claimed Vig who may or may not be SK but even if he is we're keeping him around until all mafia are dead. He killed dram n1, A50 n2 and Kokichi n3, so he's been very useful to town so far.

Skygazer is vt.

Jingle is visitor.

Chickadee is vengeful.

HWS is "informed townie" who knows how many modifiers we have.

Rask is vt.

Irrelephant is vt.

Nosferatu is investigative who cleared Chickadee. Kokichi slot claimed an inno on him but he was scum so we don't know if it was legitimate.

Somewhere there's a lying loud player.

[Ausuka]

Nosferatu I think this would be an excellent time to fullclaim

[Ausuka]

So you picked up on the lack of claimed loud modifier too.. :/ I feel like HWS may need to weigh in, as well.

I'm not very :/ about it at all though. It makes sense that the doctor would want to fakeclaim so that scum doesn't kill them.

[Ausuka]

I also got a mysteriously-wrapped BANANA last night

I got a banana as well.

[Ausuka]

It's probably nothing I guess. HWS is by far the most likely final scum just based off of interactions with profii.

VOTE: HeWhoSwims

let’s REIGN VICTORIOUS already (๑•̀ㅂ•́)و✧

[Ausuka]

{Ausuka, the worst, Raskolnikov, Chickadee}
{brassherald}
{Jingle, Sky}
{Irrelephant, Nosferatu}
{HWS}

[Ausuka]

I'm paranoid that you're lying because me and MOI are supposed to have the same fruit flavours

[Ausuka]

Tracker.

Pedit: the latter; what i'm saying is that if it happened once there's going to be a decent chance that's the general policy.

[Ausuka]

considering that we have a vig (and maybe an unclaimed invest. and a doctor) yes.

[Ausuka]

I mean that kind of risks outing the doc and I feel like we really don't need to?

[Ausuka]

There are at most three scum players in the pool mechanically.

Who? and if HWS is inside it can you vote him because I think that vote ends the game and even if it doesn't we're winning anyway?

[Ausuka]

UNVOTE:

What? Explain? How can it be Rask? He'd have to be a Multitasking Rolecop Tracker.

[Ausuka]

And why can't it be HWS or Nosferatu?

[Ausuka]

ok so I can believe it's sky or irrelephant but I don't think it could be raskolnikov. it's more likely Nosferatu is scum honestly imo and MOI didn't fruit vend n1.

[Ausuka]

It's also possible the mod has no standard for what to do and decided to just give both rask + nosferatu bananas n1 and change it up n3 right?

[Ausuka]

You cannot ask to have a certain kind of fruit. Pine won't tell me about his policy on fruit vendor flavours.

[Ausuka]

So does this mean it's probably Skygazer?

[Ausuka]

VOTE: HeWhoSwims

Let's just do this I think. If he's green quackling can vig in the scumpool. We already won.

[Ausuka]

I think scum is in {the worst, brassherald, Skygazer, Raskolnikov, Ausuka}

No offence but like


Are you reading the game?

Skygazer is probably a better lynch than Irrelephant if we're going ~down that road~? idk. Tracker makes sense if MOI slot was town I guess but feels kinda awkward if it isn't.

[Ausuka]

Well then you should probably know that TW is a claimed vig who killed Dram, A50 and Koki and literally can't be groupscum. I cc'd MOI and have been clearing people for days and was the nightkill on Night 2. Rask is my confirmed inno because I loyal fruit vended him n1. Brass was my n2 inno.

Sky can be scum but she's like the only one there who can be.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: skygazer

sure let's do this then. byegazer!

[Ausuka]

VOTE: HeWhoSwims

Cool so let's do this.

[Ausuka]

I don't see why scum has to be on the profii wagon? Like it seems like a v dangerous assumption to make for no particular reason.

[Ausuka]

I don't think its any more dangerous than clearing an entire wagon

How about we do neither and judge people based on their play?

[Ausuka]

(and their level of mechanical clearliness of course)

[Ausuka]

scum is either in the list or they arent

Yes?

[Ausuka]

What I'm saying is we ignore the list and treat Skygazer like everyone off the wagon.

[Ausuka]

I don't really think you're clear Nos could you claim your role now please?

[Ausuka]

Ehhhhh? Am I being stupid or does psychologist not really make sense with how Andy pushed Chick d2? Why push your psychologist inno? Also what are your results?

UNVOTE:

[Ausuka]

I mean not really? You learn that the player either made the mafia kill last night (1/4 of the scum) or they're just town. That's a fairly hard inno I think.

Surely you have other results to share?

[Ausuka]

What? No. I'm right.

[Ausuka]

Ohhh that kinda makes sense I was thinking along the lines of a nightkill ability but vengeful players can kill too.

What are your other results?

[Ausuka]

why did you target me and why didn't you target anybody n2?

[Ausuka]

oh yeah and btw unless irrele is like a multitasking tracker he pretty much has to be town. if sky isn't lying that means Kokichi used fruit vend last night, so that means the other mafia made the kill, and irrele would have to track which isn't in the rules unless he's multitasking for some reason. if sky is lying she's scum and only 1 scum is left so irrelephant is town anyway.

Pedit: Why was it me or MoI though??? And why were you saying I could be scum earlier if you explicitly had knowledge of me cc'ing MOI and MOI being scum and the fact we're literally both fruit vendors?

[Ausuka]

how would i know moi was scum?

I don't know, maybe because he

flipped scum

?

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Nosferatu

sorry if you're town but I don't think I can vote for anybody but you today rn.

[Ausuka]

he hadn't flipped when I submitted my result what?

I meant when you were like "scum is in the confirmed vig, the claimed loyal fruit vendor who cc'd scum, and her innocent results."

[Ausuka]

tw are you willing to tell us about your vigs yet so we can make more informed night actions or is that still a no go?

[Ausuka]

I think scum is in {

the worst, brassherald

, Skygazer,

Raskolnikov, Ausuka

}

If you knew about what had happened so far why write this?

[Ausuka]

Except you just said you knew about the CC so ???

[Ausuka]

Except you just said you knew about the CC so ???

ok so i knew about you

why the fuck would i know about literally anyone else?

it shows that you are reading the game on some level. literally how do you not know that TW is SK if you know I cc'd MOI? How do you not know that I cleared rask when it's been said so many times?

and even if you literally ONLY know about me there's no reason to place me in your scumpool like you did?

[Ausuka]

oops sorry slip of the tongue <3

[Ausuka]

Detective determines if they have killed anyone. The Worst, having claimed both the kills, is the only one Gamma is going to find unless he finds the mafia killer on a night that he kills.

Scumpool assuming FruitVends from N1 are valid:


*

GE

Ausuka

brassherald

the worst

MagnaofIllusion
Skygazer
Jingle
HeWhoSwims
Taly
Profii

Bolded probtown by Loud modifier.
Underlined probtown by fruit information.
Italicized not groupscum
Asterisk probtown by confirming worst as having killed.

We have 13 alive, which means 7 deaths til a possible 3v3. Assuming the worst makes only protown shots, that means 4 in the pool of likely scum tomorrow, 2 in the pool the following day, and 0 in the pool after that. If the worst is vig, we're in autowin already if we assume MoI town. Actually, we might be in autowin regardless if worst vig. Someone check the math there, because my brain is too fried to do so at the moment.

Maybe tw is BP SK and that's why one of the nights had no kill HMMM

i didnt think i needed to validate a inno claimed by my slot previously

my b for being vague lmfao

i guess the scum motivation is to look like apathetic town who isn't reading and doesn't care? i've seen scum do weird scummy things because they thought it'd make them look town before.

[Ausuka]

It would be pretty coincidental if she was scum and chose a claim that is a) suboptimal because it makes people want to lynch you and use your vengekill, and b) pretty much the only claim that would bail her out of a Psychologist guilty. She didn't know Andrius was a psychologist, or even an investigative at all.

[Ausuka]

I don't think that we have five scum tbh. Even if they rolecopped Andrius, there's no hint anywhere that he had a guilty on Chick; he could have had an inno on pretty much anyone else.

[Ausuka]

4v13 or 5v12, either are fine. We do have a lot of town power.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=37208

find me a 5 scum game with 17 players pls

what useful roles do we really have? hider is weak because it's not weak. visitor is... lol. Informed townie and activated bp don't really do anything for town 99.99% of the time. Loyal fruit vendor and doctor and vig (would make more sense as SK ) and detective are fairly strong, sure, but that's the kind of strong roles you NEED in a large game to help the town. Also doc is loud so if it ever protects scum it can wave bye bye to its life. Psychologist is also a role that exists but like vengeful + vig exist, and also it's probs a fakeclaim. Town isn't nearly strong enough to justify 5 scum in this site meta, full stop. Like, I'm not a balance expert, but I'm sure about that.

[Ausuka]

you don't see 4 scum mini normals either. more scum than normal just isn't something that happens in the Normal queue, really.

[Ausuka]

Psychologist is literally useless at this point because there's only one scum left. Of course they'll have made the kill by now.

[Ausuka]

I received the loud.

Loud tracker doesn't really explain gamma n1; I think doctor is very significantly more likely.

[Ausuka]

Like, you track someone who DIDN'T claim PR. That way it's like a vanilla cop, you can find out if they have a role.

[Ausuka]

Gamma's predecessor was run up D1 and claimed PR.

[Ausuka]

I'm a limited cop it only makes sense that they would try to kill me. Most people were literally saying "oh they're both town" anyway; iirc I was the only one pushing for MOI scum after Inferno replaced out.

[Ausuka]

honestly if tw vigged me n2 I would be livid

[Ausuka]

even if the last scum hasn't killed up to this point, they will tonight, so...

[Ausuka]

iirc they would still have made an attempt to kill so it would still count?

[Ausuka]

That's literally impossible. Koki isn't multitasking and if only SK is left that means Sky is town so she is telling the truth that Koki used fruit vend n3. But scum killed Gamma n3 while TW killed Koki. There has to be a fourth scum even if duckling is SK.

pedit: if this is multiball I will seriously be livid but I think we would have had a wolf flip by now.

[Ausuka]

The second scum literally has already killed 100% unless it's Skygazer and even then? I don't see any utility in keeping Nos around.

[Ausuka]

Yes we do? Like, if anything I think a vengeful is SUPER useful in 3p lylo because normally you choose 1 player to kill but there you can kill the vengeful AND another player.

[Ausuka]

Yeah let's wait for HWS. I would unvote but I'm gonna be sleeping.

[Ausuka]

We want to know the number of modifiers you know about hws.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: HeWhoSwims

[Ausuka]

More like if yoire up in LyLo and you ARE town we're gonna lose over the sheer WIFOM man

I mean we could lynch hws and you could just shoot nosf. There's no need to worry about LYLO.

[Ausuka]

that's a hammer on HWS so hopefully it ends the game!

[Ausuka]

I don't consider you a bad player hws :v

and your townflip should lead us to winning the game assuming you're telling the truth so don't worry

[Ausuka]

VOTE: the worst

Bulletproof vigilante

If this is multiscum tw is wolf. If it's not he's SK. This is just so simple.

[Ausuka]

Thanks for the help though you're the best

[Ausuka]

Yes I'm sure the second scumread nokilled all game for no reason at all and we have 3 killing roles in a 17p.

I mean you're 99% just SK so...

[Ausuka]

Find me a normal game that's 12:5 and I'll consider it.

[Ausuka]

The point is that it's never been run and neither has 9:4.

[Ausuka]

If you flip town I'll vote Nosferatu.

[Ausuka]

tw is claiming BP vigilante with all main scum dead. why are you selfvoting.

[Ausuka]

I don't understand but fine do whatever.

[Ausuka]

The scumteam is dead and we have someone claiming bulletproof vigilante. Can't we please just end the game?

I realized that we have 4 mafia flips. Multiball isn't a thing here. We don't have 8 scum in a 17p game, period.

[Ausuka]

not really.

[Ausuka]

Nobody did and that makes tons of sense because I gave it to Skygazer.

Pedit: If they did can you point me to it because that's a scumclaim.

[Ausuka]

gg! thanks for modding Pine

[Ausuka]

wait what? scum killed A50 n2??? Why?

[Ausuka]

How are you not a high-info flip? When you flip Loyal FV, everyone you've vended to gets hardcleared. It also serves as a hard counter to MoI's claim (which is likely why he's apathetic - he got screwed by claim.)

The implication was that people should townread me already and therefore already have all of that information

[Ausuka]

Oh okay that makes sense. to be 100% honest I think as scum I would've killed one of the claimed invest roles because doc can only protect one of them but then again I'm bad so...

[Ausuka]

I might be wrong but on n3 I thought that the scumpool was still too wide for scum to fakeclaim fruit. By n4 we had won regardless- Sky couldn't have won there I think?? Town PRs + SK were probably too strong for such a comeback.

the worst played excellently yeah.

[Ausuka]

She had Nos and HWS as MLs but I'm pretty sure she doesn't live beyond that point? Like I don't think Jingle was EVER getting lynched, Irre possibly but I don't think so.

[Ausuka]

Ninja is whitelisted for town under the new normal rules so Sky could've claimed Town Ninja x - maybe limited Cop or Watcher or Bodyguard or something like that.

[Ausuka]

Scum probably could've inferred the mechanic from their disloyal FV and primenight role tbf?