NY214: Project Pinecone (Game over! Town wins!)

[Inferno390]

@A50, that’s a great idea...
Unless you’re scum with one of the FV.
Then your partner shoots the other FV and you now have an excuse for only getting one banana.
Not to mention it doesn’t even matter because one of the claimed FVs is odd night

[Inferno390]

TW, don’t jump to any lynches yet. You haven’t heard about the other half of my scumteam yet.

[Inferno390]

This is a BAD post that I’m going parse when I open up on MoI tonight.

[Inferno390]

Your predecessor already claimed ...

Bogus.
Several people have kept up with claims and Elbirn definitely did not.
VOTE: MoI

[Inferno390]

Inferno, your magna vote is opportunistic as all hell.

Yep.
It’s also going away.
UNVOTE:

[Inferno390]

First, I haven’t even finished my case on MoI.
Second, and this is toward all, why the hell am I getting scumread for pulling back my vote after MoI explained his honest mistake? I think he’s scum, but I’m not an idiot, there’s hardly anything NAI about mixing up slots due to exhaustion.
P-edit: Once again, if someone would like to explain the D1 narrative in light of flips, be my guest.

[Inferno390]

Because...
Elaborate please brass

[Inferno390]

I removed a my Profii vote because I’m not comfortable with a lynch this early D2. I voted MoI because him saying that Almost was contradicting an earlier claim in the slot looked like a scumslip imo. I removed the vote when it came to light that MoI was just confusing two slots. I don’t see what’s so wrong with this.

[Inferno390]

Woah, woah, brass. Where did this Inferno+dram team come from, and how exactly does this fit game narrative?

[Inferno390]

You are both scummy, and I've seen nothing to hint at the two of you not being scum together. The vote yesterday could have easily been distancing.

How about a real, fleshed out read on with points and reasoning please? Because this is literally just shit throwing and I don’t like it.
And you really think my death tunnel on dram yesterday was BUSSING?

[Inferno390]

Hi.
Gonna skim through D2 and bring some new thoughts to the table tonight.
Duck just wanting to shoot anyone makes me paranoid about him owning a gun.
Please don’t shoot me, TW. Can I visit you tonight instead?

[Inferno390]

Thanks good to know

[Inferno390]

I'm bothered when people continue to say my scumreads are assumptions or bad without giving an inclination on why they think that, or why they're saying that. (A50/Andrius)

Again, there's a contradiction with your logic there. Let me simplify things for you: FORGET I ever said HWS is town. Forget it. Let's say he's null or I don't have a read there.

Now you want a compelling articulated case on the "subject" of your vote, then you must provide the same for me to vote your way. If you want me to "town case" HWS then you should be obliged to town case xy yourself.

The way you're doing it is "I'm not convinced with your reads, so I want you to sheep mine" without providing anything more than "personal preference".

This is a misrep and it seriously bothers me.
Taly has provided thoughts and reads on every single slot D2 by this point.
The difference between what you’re asking and what Taly is doing is that it’s not all neatly organized and tied with a bow. Which is unfair at the least.
There is reads and reasons behind Taly’s posts. You just to have to, you know, actually read his posts and dig though them instead of skimmming over them.
This is why I try to take the time to read wall posts, because they can actually contain a lot of information that can mold a read, and in some cases, can be alignment indicative based on content.
To accuse Taly of telling people to blindly sheep his reads because he doesn’t like anyone else’s is a completely false statement.

Now.
While I still don’t like the MoI/Andrius associations with dram, I am willing to back down off the point. 1) I know that several people disagree with me on that point, 2) I always assume that I can be wrong, and 3) It’s obvious that neither of these two slots are going to get lynched anyways. So I’ll take that L.

HOWEVER
I am going to finish my case on MoI and post it. That way 1) my train of thought on this slot is recorded in thread, and 2) I get it out there for discussion. Because I’d rather discuss it and have someone bring up some good Town points to get me to change my mind than be useless to town because I’m soft tunneling two players in the game that no one ageees in with me.

Once I finish that, I’m going to ISO (Elbirn/A50, Profii) And See what comes up.

Cool beans.

[Inferno390]

Xyzzy
Please explain your scumreads on TW and myself.

[Inferno390]

Will lynch xyzzy now. Game narrative is being completely ignored for the sake of thier reads.
@xyzzy: You do realize that TW CLAIMED THE SHOT ON DRAM, RIGHT?
VOTE: xyzzy
This is L-2.

[Inferno390]

Can you walk me through how xyzzy is completely ignoring the game narrative inferno?

He says that TW and I are likely scum.
A) Once again, narrative explaining how my hardtunnel on Dram (especially after he claimed) that makes logical sense would be appreciated.
B) TW claimed the shot on Dram. Which means mechanically, he’s vig, SK, or he shot his partner...?
Or he’s looking for a CC, but given the gamestate, that’d be pretty much scumteam suicide.
So yeah. There’s some serious bull being spouted from xyzzy that I don’t like.

Also not liking their most recent stuff about fruit vendors. It 1) sounds way too convulted to come from a town standpoint, and 2) it feels like scum trying to set something up.

[Inferno390]

Yeah
We should have everyone except the vendors claim on fruit, THEN have the vendors claim.
Our loud person, if you’re a tracker or such or a protective, target one of the FV. If it’s a cop, preferably MoI, but that’s just me. If a tracker-like role, it doesn’t matter which unless you get info on who was targeting your target. I’m that I would suggest targeting Ausuka. That way if scum decides to shoot her for whatever reason, at least we know about it. Course, if your reads on these two slots are opposite mine, go ahead and do your thing. That’s just what I’d do in your shoes.

TW, can you shoot in a pool of A50, Profii, Sky, and any other lurkers at this point?
Gamma can do what he thinks best at this point unless anyone else has a suggestion.
I don’t know what your investigative is Andy, so I’m not gonna make any assumptions on what you should be doing.

Any thoughts on this?

[Inferno390]

On a final note, I don’t know why there are still people calling me probscum. Like, I’m acutely aware of the fact that my playstyle is scummy anyways, but unless someone can actually bring a reasonable, fleshed out narrative on how my associations with dram is scum, please buzz off. And if you do, I’d love to hear it.
Because at this point I don’t even see how that accusation makes sense atp.

Also, I’ve decidedly that I’ve been using a term wrong. I’m not conftown. I’m just NARRARTIVELY IMPOSSIBLE TO BE SCUM.
Which is the same thing, but hey.

[Inferno390]

True.
I still think that we should follow that plan though, because like as Brass said, if Ausuka manages to hit someone on the scumteam (assuming she’s not lying ofc), we have the possibility of catching the scumteam that way.

[Inferno390]

Possibly.

[Inferno390]

Taly, your play has been great this game. If you’re scum, hats off to you. But you’re Town, so...

Sky, the low key pressure on that last post has me looking at you askance.

[Inferno390]

Willing to sheep the flashwagon. Moving my vote.
VOTE: Profii
His is also significantly worse play from profiicthat his town game, so

[Inferno390]

Guys
Six hours
Let’s lynch please

[Inferno390]

Oh
Must have missed that
Nvm then

[Inferno390]

Gonna add to this discussion on TW:
At this point it doesn’t matter if he’s a vig or an SK, because until all the scum are dead, he’s mechanically a vig anyways.
Because third party roles cannot win until EVERYONE else is dead.
And if he just shoots town, when all the town is dead scum can just shoot him and he loses.
So not only is it in his interest to be shooting scum anyways, it is quite literally AGAINST HIS WINCON to do anything else.

Also, TW is probably the only person that I would endorse a “all will be revealed in time” stance.
Because by mechanics, scum all has to die first.
Then, quite literally by gamestate, we will know whether or not Duck is an SK.
Because the game will continue on.
At which point, we can just easily lynch him anyways.

So the only factor that could be a problem is some weird lylo shit, but that’s way down the line at this point.
So don’t worry about it, because the speculation literally does not matter.

[Inferno390]

Omg
I just realized there’s some serious misrep in point 2 of 2551.
I may take a second load ok at Taly.

[Inferno390]

I could make a giant wall about how I’m town and my meta and all this other crud, but it’s not worth the space. So I’m just gonna say this:

I have challenged every single player who has accused me of bussing dramonic as my partner to show a reasonable narrative for it. So far, I have not seen a shred of anything in response. If the only reason I’m getting scumread is a bussing claim that no one can back up, I will keep shoving that in people’s faces until something changes. I will not back down on that stance.

[Inferno390]

Dang.
Well, maybe a new person in that slot might help with some reads.
Good playing with you, Andy!

[Inferno390]

Duck.
Please shoot someone other than Rask.
That is the least productive thing you can do tonight.

[Inferno390]

DUCK
PLZ

[Inferno390]

He may not get lynched regardless.
But shooting out of the lynchpool would be far more beneficial for Town, mate

[Inferno390]

Oh for heavens sake
This has been the most unproductive day ever

[Inferno390]

Andrius was MOI's "sounding board?"

I don't like that comparison, it sound suspiciously like MOI was just using him to make himself sound better....

Keeping this in mind for later.

[Inferno390]

you know this may be an unpopular opinion but i dont really townread xyzzy "posthammer" usually town spew a bit or try to reiterate a read or something

You mean like how you did since you were going to get shot tonight?
LAMIST.

[Inferno390]

@Taly: key words there are “before they were made public”
Andrius and MOI have interacted little in terms of game moving content for some time now. So where does this sounding board idea come from?

[Inferno390]

HWS might be scum. I think him being on the dram wagon was prob bussing, because I cannot remember any strong reads coming from him about it.
Profii has been playing much poorer than I last saw him. I think he’s up for grabs on this wagon.
Sky has been playing well enough today that I doubt she’s scum.
MOI I’m conflicted on rn. On one hand, his last post on me I know from experience is a town response. However, while I have said some dumb stuff this game and I will not deny it, using that as a reason to slap a “dumbass” label on everything I post is a mindset that I cannot see coming from town. (Either way, it made my day and nearly killed me from laughing.)

I think the main problem is atp that we all of these “conftown” right now, and I have the sinking sus that at least one of them is fake. With all the claims today, we’re sitting at 6? people that it is reasonable to be scum, which takes a little suspended disbelief to agree with D2 with 15 still alive. I don’t like that at all and this should probably be figured out next phase.

[Inferno390]

I wish I was on a PC rn.

Almost51
MagnaofIllusion
brassherald
the worst
Skygazer
xyzzy
HeWhoSwims
Profii

^ So apart from the person who might be my fruitvend target this should be a complete list of where scum are right? obviously not looking for "you could be scum!!!!" comments just wanna make sure I'm being reasonable.

This bothers me.
1) TW is mechanically confirmed to not be scum. Why is he on this list.
2) By pitting MOI on this list, you’re implying Andy and Chick might be scum. Why are they NOT on this list?
3) I’m failing to see why brass is on here considering that I haven’t seen a case for him from you yet. Could that be elaborated?

[Inferno390]

Quick phone post ...

If Dram turns out to be Town kill all three of Theworst / Inferno / Brass with Fire.

At least two would be scum looking to lynch an uncountered fairly powerful role on for sketch as heck reasons. Worst first since saying “lynch regardless of claim if scummy” which is 100% scum beneficial play. This is a Large game. It will go on for many days and not giving any thought to the potential damage to Town from mislynching a claimed role is at best terrible play. So fear mongering while saying it is role madness and likely many alternative means to assess Dram’s alignment exist is suspect.

Will have computer posted thoughts later.

And for the record - things getting down to the wire in the game with no obvious scum suspects left around?

Someone who hard pushed Dram AFTER the claim is scum. Because there was no way the lynch was going through after that claim due to all the reasons stated yesterday. So easily within reason that scum took that window to hardpress for Town cred by pushing for Dram to be lynched when it was completely safe to do so.

If I recall correctly that was basically Worst / Inferno / Brass.

So if the game somehow gets to like Day 6 or 7 with maybe 1 Mafia left don't forget this post people.

This has been sitting on my mind for a while now. I’d like to discuss it.

[Inferno390]

2) By pitting MOI on this list, you’re implying Andy and Chick might be scum. Why are they NOT on this list?

Do you think scum-MoI fake-cleared scum-Andrius and scum-Andrius fakecleared scum-Chicka and scum-Chicka fakeclaimed vengeful? Because 1) that would be hilarious and I'm secretly hoping that happened and wouldn't even be salty if we lost to that and 2) that would all come toppling down as soon as Chicka is lynched to get her vengekill because it would confirm Nos and MoI as scum so there's a 0% chance of that actually happening

But then why is MOI on this list? Because unless you think that MOI is scum while Andy is Town, they either both have to be scum or both have to be Town. And MoI without Andy doesn’t narrative with dram.

[Inferno390]

1) no. SK is scum imo and the optimal play for anyone but tw who shot Dram is obviously to stay quiet and shoot tw at night.

2) andrius was obvtown and I doubt MOI faked an inno on his buddy like that. chick is town because Nosferatu is town.

3) hmmm it's almost like you don't need to literally case someone for them to be potential scum

3)

1) SK is not scum and the fact that you are saying that makes my thing you are scum afraid of getting shot. You are throwing far too much shade the killing role’s direction.

2) But by this, MOI is conftown, because Andy confirmed he got the banana.

3) Considering that most of the thread disagrees with you on brass!scum imo, a case would be appreciated. Thanks. Which is not to mention the fact that by throwing HWS and brass on the same level, you’re implying that there was 2 scum on Dram’s wagon...?

[Inferno390]

I suddenly got the strange feeling my wariness of MOI is being played against me by someone and I don’t know who.

[Inferno390]

I don't get why scum MOI with town andrius is not possible.

This is fair

[Inferno390]

Andrius was MOI's "sounding board?"

I don't like that comparison, it sound suspiciously like MOI was just using him to make himself sound better....

Keeping this in mind for later.

what do you think sounding board means

I think that it means that you’re using a person or thing as a control for the things you say, so you can test whether or not they sound reasonable or not.
Which given the circumstances sounds like he’s saying he was using Andy’s willingness to agree with him to make his arguments sound better. Which is not something that would come from a town mindset.

Going to work on this case on MOI and try to have it done before the day is over.

[Inferno390]

Andrius was MOI's "sounding board?"

I don't like that comparison, it sound suspiciously like MOI was just using him to make himself sound better....

Keeping this in mind for later.

what do you think sounding board means

I think that it means that you’re using a person or thing as a control for the things you say, so you can test whether or not they sound reasonable or not.
Which given the circumstances sounds like he’s saying he was using Andy’s willingness to agree with him to make his arguments sound better. Which is not something that would come from a town mindset.

Going to work on this case on MOI and try to have it done before the day is over.

Sounding board is more of a person you work with to make sure your thinking is rational, sorta like a logic proofreader.

Okay
But again, why does that come from town?

[Inferno390]

Also realized that just because Chick is cool Motown by Andy does not make Andy conftown.

[Inferno390]

Okay, so I’ve decided to start over on my read on MoI just to take a fresh look and gather thoughts. Here is D1:

196: the move on flubber feels tonally off. Like, it almost sounds like he thinks flubber is confscum, Which I’m not seeing given gamestate atp.
319 has a few problems. First, the dark horse claim is weird to say the least. It sounds like he’s trying to keep his options open for a hard scumread. Plus it comes in the same post that davesaz calls out the fact that his read on flubber is weak. Then there’s his stuff on Profii. While what he’s saying is true, it reads like he’s more of soft defending Profii than reading him as Town for it.
439: I don’t get his read on flubber here. It’s exactly the same read as before, and there’s a notable lack of information for the words posted. Also, this dark horse thing is very much off.
577: I really don’t like this post. MoI says that scum generally works harder at how their votes are perceived, but with the flubber wagon, it’s starting to feel like he’s doing exactly that...? And then his davesaz vote feels very much opportunistic. It reads of “ha, I caught you doing something scummy, so I’m gonna make you look bad over it.”
711-725: I don’t like how quickly MoI flips his read on the Dave slot here. He goes from “pretty confident of scum” to “eh, you’ve got problems, but I’ll let it pass.”
Reading through 861, I’ve noticed that MoI has done nothing to expand on his flubber read, which is odd since he started off acting like he was so sure flubber was scum. But there’s been nothing else about him from the slot. Remember how I said the flubber wagon was scum engineered? This could be it.
Also, with 861 is particular, there is a major posturing thing going on with his read on Hit that I don’t like, especially since his only reason he doesn’t move is vote is because he thinks Flubber is lurking out the counter wagon, even though as I have pointed out, his flubber read is weaksauce.
1065: Noticing a lack of hunting from MoI atp. The only thing he’s really got atp is flubber, and I would be willing to call his read on the slot weak. Also, he hasn’t pushed Taly at all since the initial exchange with him, which given his reservations about the slot seems odd.
Then you get down to the bottom of this post, and you see... MoI soft chainsaw gets Taly for voting dram. Considering he has given 0 read on Dram all game, I find this totally odd.
1225: This is chainsaw, especially since MoI hasn’t actually given a reason that dram is Town...? Also, remember this post. It’s important.
1294: I think this is a big tick in the scumside for MoI. First, it’s pretty blatant chainsawing. Then there’s the HitAlt thing; this is a major misrep on his part as that is not at all what I meant by the given response. After that, there’s this giant wall of fame schematics that, given the dram flip, reads heavily like scum trying to keep their partner alive as long as possible. Finally, the shade nonsense, which firstly MoI is using a buzzword claim to blow me off, and secondly is a really convulted POV for town.
In summary, 1294 works way too hard to paint me as scum, doesn’t actually explain why dram is Town, and is mostly using technical stuff instead of real reads to paint my push on Dram as bad.
That’s all for D1. Other notes on it is that it goes by with MoI giving very few reads at all. There’s also a striking lack of content on dram for how against the lynch is. With flubber’s flip, a second look shows his read on the wagon to be very weak. And with the flip of dram overnight, it makes MoI defense and chainsaws for the slot seem odd, to say the least.

[Inferno390]

I’m going to also come back to this in my ISO, but that attack on me from MoI earlier...
I was thinking about it, and I realized that I haven’t actually been “irrationally tunneling” anyone this game, nor have I had a “complete lack of logic.” However, that sounds suspiciously like some of my early games.

So in other words, that post is a very unnecessary attack on me that doesn’t actually address what I said combined with an apparent meta dive that came out of nowhere.

[Inferno390]

1) TW is mechanically confirmed to not be scum. Why is he on this list.

No one has verified his claim though? All we know is he tried to kill someone and he is claiming he target dram.

Hit verified he can kill and no one has stepped up to CC. Until someone does, he’s not scum, he’s vig or SK. So we do not lynch him until further notice.

[Inferno390]

Inferno

Talk about the pool
{A50, HWS, profii, Sky, xyzzy}

Discussion outside of this is not optimal for town right now given the gamestate, dayphase content, and deadline

The pool?
With what meta I have on Profii, his play today has been sub optimal. I would lynch there at this moment. However, I want to read though the HWS ISO and see if there is reason to to go there.
The Sky exchange with Ausuka has been TvT imo. And I don’t think there’s a real case on A50 atp, and nothing of Elbirn’s was ever that bad?
Xyzzy is possible, but I also want to ISO them.

[Inferno390]

1) TW is mechanically confirmed to not be scum. Why is he on this list.

No one has verified his claim though? All we know is he tried to kill someone and he is claiming he target dram.

Hit verified he can kill and no one has stepped up to CC. Until someone does, he’s not scum, he’s vig or SK. So we do not lynch him until further notice.

SK is scum holy shit
SCUM = NOT TOWN HOW DO YOU NOT GET THIS
If you weren't infamous for being lynchbait I'd probably want your head here, but this is seriously pinging me

Scum is scum and 3p is 3p. If you say scum, I will always assume you mean scum on the scum team.
And A) I don’t know what else I’m supposed to pull from your line of thought, and B) IT DOESNT FRICKING MATTER IF HES SK OR VIG UNTIL ENDGAME ANYWAYS, SO STOP TALKING ABOUT HIM

Thank you

[Inferno390]

SK is not scum because he has to kill all the scum before endgame to win. He cannot won while scum is still alive.
I don’t know how many times I’ve gone over this, and I’m really fricking sick of it. Bottom line is that NO ONE should even be talking about lynching TW until all the scum are dead.

@Taly: my walls on MoI are mostly there for posterity just in case I get shot. Once I’m dead I want people to be able to read my thoughts and ideas see them.

Also, has anyone considered the fact that TW is a PGO and dram was sent to shoot him last night?

[Inferno390]

Also, has anyone considered the fact that TW is a PGO and dram was sent to shoot him last night?

NO because if he was I'd be DEAD. Nice try, but you've officially gone beyond "he is mildly annoying" to "he is trying to pass logic that doesn't not frikkin work ever".
VOTE: Inferno390
FOR GREAT JUSTICE!

Unless the loud player that targeted you last night is a protective.

[Inferno390]

Also, has anyone considered the fact that TW is a PGO and dram was sent to shoot him last night?

NO because if he was I'd be DEAD. Nice try, but you've officially gone beyond "he is mildly annoying" to "he is trying to pass logic that doesn't not frikkin work ever".
VOTE: Inferno390
FOR GREAT JUSTICE!

Unless the loud player that targeted you last night is a protective.

hmmm where's the scum kill then?

Someone told me once that PGO doesn’t die if they are shot at
Just check the wiki and this is obviously not true
Nvm then

[Inferno390]

This was a great game.

[Inferno390]

I mean
Silence is Golden after all
Just like our fuzzy SK friend