Excalibur [Endgame]

Auro · Post Post #899 (isolation #200) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:40 pm

In post 895, DVa wrote:Your case is that I'm unfunny this game.

That is reachy bullshit and not even remotely scum indicative, in addition to being simply lowkey insulting considering the game barely fucking began, and apparently you're now a fucking expert on how "chummy" I am at a baseline and also an expert on when people are saying and doing stupid things in a game that pisses me off. Every other argument you're making seems like it's meant to piss me off more than advance the game and it's sure as shit working. Your townplay isn't this fucking passive aggressive or manipulative

Firstly, sure -- if it was a reachy case at that point, I WAS open to changing my mind, and it was never a strong case.

FMPOV, you could very well be scum, and it's important for me not to sheep you on whatever you say till I actually sort you.

I've never once, in this game, launched any personal attack on you, and you know full well that town!Auro can tunnel on an invalid case and wants to make an effort to be less stubborn.

Where was I passive aggressive? Can you explain this a little more?

Auro · Post Post #900 (isolation #201) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:42 pm

In post 897, DVa wrote:Yes, I *both* thought that we needed to avoid a shitty gladiation and *also* thought my existing jokes were overused. I had *both* positive incentive to talk about mechanics and reign in the incentive for yolo gladiations and *negative incentive* to do my usual schtick. This is not hard to understand and once again you are presenting things that are *not* contradictions as contradictions, i.e., REACHY BULLSHIT

Erhm, what I didn't like is that you quoted one reason and bring up another here WRT my "not understanding" your play. I never said it's contradictory, and my dislike still stands.

Auro · Post Post #902 (isolation #202) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:45 pm

In post 901, SirCakez wrote:Even w/more game evidence I still don't consider someone being more funny in one game then another to be great evidence because that can change entirely dependent on the game playerlist, how fast it gets serious, and the rolelist. also in personal experience I have never actively considered being more serious as scum to appear more town or whatever.

I agree, and wouldn't have bothered much. Except for her own admission that she finds it a lot harder as scum to be non-serious.

I mean, *objectively* that slightly increases the scum likelihood for her. Other play-based reasons can supercede this, surely.

Auro · Post Post #903 (isolation #203) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:46 pm

@Nancy: Either you're scumreading me or agreeing with others scumreading me.

I'll ask you now to take a stance, and explain why you scumread me, or not.

Auro · Post Post #906 (isolation #204) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:50 pm

In post 904, DVa wrote:
In post 902, Auro wrote:Except for her own admission that she finds it a lot harder as scum to be non-serious.
Except this is literally something I have never said

Okay, so do you *deny* it?
Or would you say such a thing?

Auro · Post Post #911 (isolation #205) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:55 pm

In post 907, DVa wrote:
In post 905, Varsoon wrote:There's literally nothing keeping you from being the one doing the gladiating other than some sense of self-preservation that you shouldn't even care about because if you're town you can just claim sword.
I would prefer for the town to be convinced by my case, hurt Auro, and then have him gladiate another scumread. Gladiating him myself gives me nothing to find his buddies

Not seeing a comprehensive case from you. Apart from the "potential scum" you read me earlier, the crux of your push on me now seems to be because you think my FoS on you and further engagement was my scumgame.

By all means, make a detailed case on me, allow me to refute it, explain the scum motivations behind everything I did, then get the hurts piling up on me.

Auro · Post Post #912 (isolation #206) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:59 pm

@Something_Smart:

Spoiler:

That said, any reads you have on people at the moment?

Auro · Post Post #915 (isolation #207) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:03 pm

In post 908, DVa wrote:
In post 906, Auro wrote:Okay, so do you *deny* it?
Or would you say such a thing?
Do I deny saying the thing I never said? I sure do

Would I say something that is untrue about my self meta? Probably, most people don't describe their self meta at all because having people argue about their self meta is unfun and stupid

Noted, on the first part, I'll keep that in mind. Maybe I just misremembered really bad.

Aha the second part: That's not what I'm asking. This isn't self-meta, this is you acknowledging there's a certain behavior you find it harder to emulate as scum.

Let me rephrase - Do you find it harder to chummy up as scum?

Auro · Post Post #919 (isolation #208) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:08 pm

In post 913, DVa wrote:So tell us Auro, why did you decide to make multiple arguments that all hinge on me saying something I have never actually said? Are you only trying to provoke me? Are you trying to pollute the thread with a facile and meritless argument? Or are you simply trying to inflate your post count and come off as engaged? Because I see literally no possible town motivation in *pretending I said shit I never said and then using that to scum case me*

1. Because you've said it elsewhere, I've read it before. Besides, I'm asking you to say or deny that now anyway. (That you find it harder to be chummy as scum)
2. *I* don't need to be the one provoking. I can lurk and I'm pretty damn sure there's gonna be others triggering and provoking each other.
3. I don't need to wage some battle with you to come off as engaged.
4. Ehrm but there's town motivation in improving my read on you slightly because of an objective (even if weak) reason

Auro · Post Post #924 (isolation #209) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:12 pm

In post 916, Something_Smart wrote:I wouldn't advocate for announcing intent to claim, but definitely anyone who doesn't want the sword shouldn't claim it.

Spoiler:

Auro · Post Post #925 (isolation #210) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:14 pm

In post 922, DVa wrote:Auro, Do you really fucking think I'm going to give you more self-meta bullshit to misremember and misrepresent? If you're unable to interpret what I have already said why would I give you more? You haven't earned it.

If it's that misrepresented, town would see through that, no?
I won't interpret, let town do that.
I haven't earned it, but town deserves to know.

Auro · Post Post #936 (isolation #211) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:23 pm

In post 928, DVa wrote:
In post 919, Auro wrote:Because you've said it elsewhere, I've read it before.
Prove it or accept that you have either been misrepresenting me or lying.

Or you just answer that now. Why are you avoiding it?

Searching through and finding that is a difficult task, and I'm not even perfectly sure it's in a completed game. I've tried finding it with the search bar ("harder", "easier", "self meta"), but couldn't.

Anyway, if I'm lying about such a post existing, then the content of said hypothetical post may not be true, yes? In which case you could easily say "No" when I ask if you find it harder to be chummy as scum.

Auro · Post Post #937 (isolation #212) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:26 pm

In post 935, Varsoon wrote:I guess Auro's been leaning on it but I dunno that he's really pushed that as rationale you're scum, or has he?

Exactly. I was just FoSing at the time, weakly, and absolutely ready to take it back after listening to others.

The way she engaged with me after that actually made me believe she's more likely scum, because I don't expect that behavior with me if she was town.

Auro · Post Post #940 (isolation #213) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:27 pm

In post 931, DVa wrote:
In post 925, Auro wrote:I won't interpret, let town do that.
I don't think town cares, I think only you do, and you're not town so far.

Or do you expect me to believe you have gone into a 1v1 with me for multiple pages but never bothered to find a quote where I say the thing that is the entire basis of your case on me?

And do you expect scum!me to lie about something you said but act like it exists for a bunch of pages, and co-incidentally what scum!Auro fake-remembered from the hypothetical post is something you're avoiding and not denying right now?

Auro · Post Post #943 (isolation #214) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:30 pm

In post 938, Varsoon wrote:I dunno, I'd be kinda riled if you were posting untrue stuff about me.

Obviously it would rile someone up if they felt it was untrue, I'm not saying her getting riled up is what made me lean scum on her. It's just that the content, different from what I'd expect town!DVa to say to me.

This is a lean much more informed from my personal experience and expectations though, I don't expect everyone to necessarily agree with that.

Auro · Post Post #947 (isolation #215) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:32 pm

In post 945, Varsoon wrote:@S_S: Still seems like a fallacy though because if arthur doesn't go for the sword then his chances are still 0.

Varsoon, Something_Smart is correct here. It's a conditional probability.

*Given* that Arthur doesn't go for the sword, his chances are 0, but as long as someone is claiming, from an uninformed town perspective it's 1/12 that Arthur gets it. The one person who tries may 1/12 be Arthur.

Auro · Post Post #949 (isolation #216) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:34 pm

In post 946, Varsoon wrote:@Auro: Ah. Makes sense. That's why it feels venomless to me. It's entirely informed by personal history that you haven't articulated in a way that strikes D.Va down.

I hate venom

even my strongest cases aren't attacking. Remember my fakecase on Egix?

I don't want to strike her down. If I actually have more objective arguments strengthening my read, I'll lay them down then.

Auro · Post Post #952 (isolation #217) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:37 pm

In post 950, DVa wrote:@Auro, So just to be clear, you cannot, in fact, find anything resembling the quote in question, but you based an entire meta argument of me and started a 1v1 based on something you cannot actually attribute to me. i.e., you made up a quote, attributed it to me, and used it to advance a scum case on me.

If you remember right, and this is the important part, I said that your case on me is reachy bullshit.

So I would now like you to admit that your case on me is reachy bullshit.

You're saying these things without answering whether said made up content actually personally applies to you FYPOV.

Now I feel you're being dishonest about this quote, and that you're able to be this way is because the post happens to be somewhere you know I can't refer to. O.o

Auro · Post Post #953 (isolation #218) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:39 pm

If I'm majority hurt, I'll simply gladiate the second majority hurt. I've been throwing reads but I'm pretty sure they're not as good as other players' reads, so I'll go with consensus.

Auro · Post Post #957 (isolation #219) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:52 pm

DVa, deny the content of said hypothetical post.
I'll try my best to find it then. If it's not directly referencable, I'll keep my lean on you for dishonesty, and anyone who *wants* to find out if you're being dishonest can do so themselves.
If I can't, I'll apologize.

Auro · Post Post #958 (isolation #220) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:55 pm

In post 957, Auro wrote:DVa, deny the content of said hypothetical post.
I'll try my best to find it then. If it's not directly referencable, I'll keep my lean on you for dishonesty, and anyone who *wants* to find out if you're being dishonest can do so themselves.
If I can't, I'll apologize.

And if you accept that content, then also accept that it's probable I'm not lying because I've predicated a case on you on a personal belief YOU hold which scum!Me apparently guessed at perfectly.

And also accept that if that predicated basis is correct, my case makes more sense than your version of me faking it.

Auro · Post Post #960 (isolation #221) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:11 pm

In post 959, SirCakez wrote:i haven't read the last two pages yet, only the two posts above but wtf auro
this should be good

I mean, are the above two posts THAT ridiculous? Open my eyes, please

Auro · Post Post #964 (isolation #222) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:17 pm

@DVa:
c) I only have a recollection of you saying it, and am ASKING you to either admit you find it harder to be chummy or deny that explicitly.

You could've even said it to me in personal chat, FWIW.

Auro · Post Post #966 (isolation #223) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:20 pm

In post 962, SirCakez wrote:after catching up i'm honestly completely baffled on this quote thing
is this referring to an ongoing game???

No references. I just remember her stating such a personal belief *somewhere*, and it may not even be a public avenue. I've been pushing based on my belief of what she said once, and haven't referred to any ongoing games.

It would be a lot easier if she explicitly denies that content right now.

Auro · Post Post #967 (isolation #224) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:20 pm

In post 965, SirCakez wrote:hasn't d.va pretty clearly denied that at this point?

Can you quote the part where she is clearly denying it?

Auro · Post Post #971 (isolation #225) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:22 pm

In post 961, DVa wrote:Perhaps "I have never said that" wasn't a big enough fucking hint for you?

OK, so is this an explicit denial, and you DO NOT believe it's harder for you to be chummy as scum?

Can I go ahead with this assumption, that you've explicitly denied it? Yes/No? I don't want hints, just a yes or no.

Auro · Post Post #975 (isolation #226) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:29 pm

In post 969, SirCakez wrote:because why spend two pages arguing that they didn't say it if it's true anyways?

She would know that she did say it somewhere: If she's able to act like it isn't true, it means that she either said it in a private medium which I can't quote, like chat, or an ongoing game - which I would not be able to refer to anyway.

Which part of this is silly?

Auro · Post Post #976 (isolation #227) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:30 pm

In post 974, Elsa Jay wrote:Hmm... What to do to be relevant in discussion again...

Claim daycop, and bury a different fakeclaim within that claim.

Auro · Post Post #979 (isolation #228) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:34 pm

In post 977, Something_Smart wrote:Although I don't really consider it necessary to have a plan like that. If I don't end up seeing anything on someone that I think I can get a reliable read on, then I'm right to just not attempt to read them and instead sort them through other means (interactions, mechanics, sheeping).

Would you agree that it's useful for the rest of town if you take stances on existing content and exchanges, if not necessarily overall reads on players?

Auro · Post Post #980 (isolation #229) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:36 pm

In post 978, Elsa Jay wrote:Congratulations, Auro. Imma give you something nice. A chance to day 2.

If this clock hits 5 days remaining exactly, imma make a challenge. That oughta make discussion happen better.

Does this mean you'll be challenging me? What are your reads ATM?

Auro · Post Post #983 (isolation #230) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:40 pm

In post 982, Elsa Jay wrote:
In post 980, Auro wrote:
In post 978, Elsa Jay wrote:Congratulations, Auro. Imma give you something nice. A chance to day 2.

If this clock hits 5 days remaining exactly, imma make a challenge. That oughta make discussion happen better.
Does this mean you'll be challenging me? What are your reads ATM?
Mfw I basically telling him I'm getting him to the second day but he still thinks I'd challenge him.

"Chance" to go to D2 made me think you're twisting stuff, and you do twist stuff, don't ya

Auro · Post Post #986 (isolation #231) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:45 pm

@DVa: I think I get what you were talking about. Depending on the source of my memory, it could be a very bad-faith basis I was adopting, *regardless* of site rules.

If I were scum and did know, I definitely wouldn't resort to pushing you on that.

I apologize. I'll retract whatever I said, and re-evaluate later.

Auro · Post Post #987 (isolation #232) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:48 pm

In post 985, Elsa Jay wrote:Would it make it better if you know I'm not challenging you or DVa when the time comes?

It'll be better if you take some stances and tell us some of your reads, because if I'm gonna have to choose between you or someone else, I want content from you that I should be able to evaluate.

Auro · Post Post #989 (isolation #233) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:50 pm

Personality is not indicative.

Auro · Post Post #994 (isolation #234) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:04 pm

@Sircakez: I'm dropping all content wrt the meta push I've had with DVa, and I don't want to talk about that further.

Auro · Post Post #995 (isolation #235) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:21 pm

In post 990, Elsa Jay wrote:Well against Lady it'll be enough.

If Elsa is serious about challenging in 17 hours, and I don't think it's improbable that he's joking about it, we need to consolidate and collect hurts from everyone.

Auro · Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:33 pm

In post 1004, Gamma Emerald wrote:So here’s the counter plan Auro mentioned
I’ll wait to pass final judgement but this looks better yeah.

You should start convincing people not to take the sword if they're not the winner of the gladiate.

I'm up for that.

Auro · Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:49 pm

In post 1012, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:This post is both untrue and kind of manipulative sounding tbh. I haven’t formed a read on you yet but I definitely don’t like you, or anyone else telling me what I think. If you’re trying to piss me off here, then congratulations, you’ve suceeded. I will never allow anyone to ever manipulate me into doing anything. When I have formed a read on you, I will let you know but this is the first thing from you, that has really pinged me. If you are actually trying to get me to scumread you here, then definitely keep it up.

If you want my help in gladiating you, then just keep pushing me.

I don't care for manipulation and shit.
Don't gladiate me without me having majority hurt.
Sorry if you got pissed off. That's not my intention.

I'm not telling you what you think, I'm inferring off the sentiment, feel free to tell me I'm wrong. You did say my scumgame felt similar to one you read, and I hope you read that other towngame as well.

Is your dislike of me just because I said you're either scumreading me or agreeing with people who are?

There's absolutely nothing manipulative in asking someone to take a stance. "I'm keeping you at null" is also a valid stance.

Auro · Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:52 pm

In post 1014, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:This quote was part of my response to Cakes, for not having any strong scumreads yet. What part of this, do you or anyone not understand?

They don't have to be strong, or even accurate.
It's harder to fake when you're scum, and whatever you say in terms of stances on things, leans, what's pinging you, etc becomes useful content to analyze later.

For example, if someone's scumreading someone else because X, and you're still having that person at null, there's a chance that you disagree because you don't think X is sound/correct. One instance being the meta case I was making.

Do you agree?

Auro · Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:57 pm

In post 1013, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:P.edit. I am not townreading nreading you and I wasn’t scumreading you either although I thought being too “serious” in a games seems like a really bad reason to hard scumread someone. However, I find this last post to be highly manipulative and possibly scummy. If you don’t retract your request and continue to pursue it, I will “HURT” you.

You're putting words in my mouth. I didn't hard scumread, I made a weak FoS.

Your keeping me at null also means you don't think DVa's accusation of my push being scum-motivated isn't convincing to you. See? From your stance, I was able to make a deduction.
(And if you haven't made a judgment off that yet, I'm imploring you to do so and take a stance)

You can go ahead and "hurt" me.

Auro · Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:05 am

In post 1017, Auro wrote:You're putting words in my mouth. I didn't hard scumread, I made a weak FoS.

Me saying you're either scumreading me or agreeing with people who do is manipulative.

I've repeatedly said that my meta case on her wasn't strong, it was only a FoS, and I'm open to changing my mind on it after asking other people, and even asked you about it then.

When you're telling me what *I* think, wrongly, does this not look equally manipulative to you?

Auro · Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:13 am

In post 1019, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:I didn’t say I wanted to gladiate you. I said I absolutely would if you kept pushing me. I will always willingly gladiate/lynch anyone who I feel is wrongly/unfairly pushing me, in any game I’m in.

Yes, because it did look similar. I will happily read a towngame of yours as well. It’s just that Varsoon made it easy for me by actually linking it.

The way you phrased it was definitely manipulative - whether that was your intention or not. You said that I need to explain why I’m EITHER townreading you OR scumreading you. Like you were literally forcing me to pick one or the other. It should be obvious that I was nullreading you, because I obviously would have “HURT” you already, had I been scumreading you or said it right in the thread if I was townreading you.

I am trying to decide rn if you actually believe DVa is scummy or if you’re just hard pushing her for bogus reasons. I haven’t made up my mind yet, either way.

"Scumreading or not" was the exact phrasing I used. A null read is also a "not scumread", to clarify.

You shouldn't gladiate unless there's a majority hurt IMO, so don't. If you're actually willing to yolo gladiate just because someone's pushing you, that's anti-town.

Good. Make up your mind and temme your thoughts!

Auro · Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:26 am

In post 1021, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:Not having ever played with scum!DVa, I can’t put too much stock on a meta case based on “seriousness” or the lack thereof. I did say that UT had been pinging me but now I’m feeling better about him. I didn’t like Arianne’s post misrepping me and I would like her to quote where exactly she thinks I was actually advocating for numerous vigges by players who don’t know they’re Arthur. I want to determine if she actually just misread my post or deliberately misconstued it.

But it’s important to me, to be “accurate”. If I feel I have a strong case on anyone, I won’t hesitate to push them.

I'll just say that I heavily relate to you here. I don't think I can read people any good especially in D1, I'm just coming from a town game where I horribly misread a couple slots.

I generally push based off pings/leans, etc to engage and help develop a read, but that doesn't mean I'm hard scumreading someone if I'm pushing them.

Also, thanks for the stances. Stances don't require you to read slots, they're simple agreements or disagreements with stuff others say. Can you see where I'm coming from, WRT the expectation of stances and not necessarily strong reads?

Auro · Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:29 am

In post 1022, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:What? * really confused*

A few people are scumreading me, and DVa is hard scumreading me for my having engaged her and pushed her on that meta FoS.

If you read that, processed it and kept me at null, it means that that didn't convince you enough to think I'm actually scummy for doing it.

It doesn't matter now since you said you're processing it right now, which I appreciate. We good?

Pedit: You did imply I was hard scumreading because of "seriousness", when I stated it was a weak FoS, so how is not you putting words in my mouth?

Auro · Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:30 am

In post 1013, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:although I thought being too “serious” in a games seems like a really bad reason to
hard scumread someone.

Auro · Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:33 am

In post 1027, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:Not really and why you’re directing this to me, specifically. Again, to you Cakes and who the fuck ever: I rarely have strong scumreads this early and I gladly invite anyone to ISO a single towngame of mine, that contradicts this.

Stances and opinions and pings and agreements and disagreements ≠ Scumreads or townreads

That's all I'm trying to say. It's the former that I'm asking you to give not the latter. I'm sure you don't have strong scumreads this early.

Auro · Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:39 am

In post 1029, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:Yes, you did say that, however you saying I was “putting words in your mouth” is inaccurate because it read to me that you were hard pushing her despite saying that. That isn’t “manipulation” but my honest interpretation of your posts. If you honestly don’t see that, then reread them.

I was engaging with her on that basis, while maintaining that it was a weak case and just an FoS. Did you not read the posts where I said that?

I'm also saying I honestly interpreted your sentiment as a scumread (or maybe "lean" or "ping") on me, or that you seemed to be generally agreeing with people who did. Even if I was wrong, am I not allowed to make an interpretation *at all*? Couldn't you have just corrected me, rather than call me manipulative, and threaten to hurt me, and also threaten to gladiate me?

Auro · Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:44 am

And pushing someone ≠ hard scumread. Also I've mentioned other reasons I was getting pings off her. You're saying that the entirety of my push on her, and my own read on her, was informed by something I myself called weak.

I'm not saying you couldn't have honestly interpreted my actions as a hard motivated push based off "serious play". You're allowed that window of interpretation, and it's healthy. Let me have that too, and not be afraid of you threatening me when I want to.

Auro · Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:47 am

In post 1032, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:I think that you are really not seeing how your posts came across but wrongly accusing me of “putting words in your mouth” is bullshit because I never misquoted you. My statement was based on my interpretation of your posts. For you to unfairly accuse me of doing something I absolutely did not do, isn’t really sitting well with me.

I'm not accusing you. I'm drawing a parallel of how you immediately reacted to my "scumread me or not, and why" post. I never misquoted you either, I was going by my interpretation.

If my "accusation" now is unfair, your accusation and threats on me definitely are.

Auro · Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:55 am

In post 1035, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:Seriously, you need to take at least some responsibility for your part in these misunderstandings. It is not my responsibility to assume you mean something different than you’re actually saying.

>I make an honest interpretation that you seem to be scumreading me or that you're agreeing with people who are
>I ask you to give me a read on my slot, "scum" or "not scum" (null/town)

"Not scumread" objectively covers a nullread as well, and it's reasonable for me to expect you to understand that. If you don't feel I said that, nothing stops you from questioning me on it, which is the point of engagement in the first place.

But calling my post "highly manipulative" and threatening to hurt me, and also to gladiate me if I don't retract it? That feels pretty dishonest and overreactive.

If you can take that back, I'll accept my part in the misunderstanding.

Auro · Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:57 am

In post 1036, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:What you actually should have done is, ASK me for my read on you, or ask IF I’m currently townreasing or scumreading you?

I would have reacted quite well to that, I assure you.

God, "Scumreading or not" does not mean "Scumreading or townreading". Now that I've clarified on the exact phrasing, please take back the stuff about manipulation and stuff. That's not useful at all.

Auro · Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:07 am

It's my style.

I honestly don't care that much for getting mislynched. I'm not the one making attacks on people, I just push and engage based on things till I'm satisfied. If I *do* get lynched, there's a pretty good utility for town WRT analysing prior sentiments towards me, anyway.

If you replied with "Do you think I either have to scumread or townread you, and can't keep you at null?", I would've easily clarified that null is a fine position to take and that "scumread or not" did include that.

I don't like that you chose to instead call me manipulative and threaten me with various things, but I think you probably do these kinda things often. *Shrug* hence this exchange is pretty useless.

Pedit: Yes, an overreaction is something I was considering, I would've felt it was dishonest if this was isolated AND you kept tugging at it.

Thanks. Can we attempt to work together a bit more now?

Auro · Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:08 am

I mean take back the stuff about me having to retract or otherwise you'd gladiate me or hurt me or whatever.

Auro · Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:22 am

Umm, okay then. Glad to know.

Auro · Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:31 am

In post 1049, Varsoon wrote:So, like, a few problems I have with this:
1. I can't read that for shit. It's not transparent to me. I misread you in that recent Newbie and I have no idea what your alignment here is.

2. What does you being 'satisfied' even entail? That's such a nebulous outcome that it seems so damn easy to hide behind as either alignment. I don't think your engagement with either D.Va or Nancy here has helped me read any of the slots involved and, if anything, I find myself glazing over those back-and-forths more than anything.

3. How do you plan on actually netting a town win with this strat? You being 'satisfied' doesn't equate to read accuracy and none of this points towards you doing anything to convince others of who scum/town is.

1. It's unlikely you'd be able to form a strong read off anything I say, given our recent experience, though, right?

2. I find something that I think may have come from scum, then I push on it to explore their thoughts behind what they said/did, and try to make an evaluation of it. I don't think any significant exchange between any two people is going to convincingly give me reason to believe they're scum in the usual case at this point.

3. I was talking about personal attacks. Being satisfied doesn't necessarily mean I'm ending the exchange without any conclusion. So far I've attempted and haven't seen anything that I can convincingly use to nail scum, but have been forming my own leans -- I think with more mechanical information we get over the days, these leans become easier to refine in retrospect, and I can start making better cases then.

Auro · Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:35 am

In post 1049, Varsoon wrote:@S_S: Yes. Your projections on probability are flawed.
Yes, an INDIVIDUAL has 1/12 chance of being Arthur, and, therefore, will always have 1/12 chance of getting Excalibur when moving to claim on N1.
That said, when you take the entire data set in at once, the probability of ARTHUR getting the sword when 12 individuals exist that could be Arthur drops for every one of the 12 that doesn't go for the sword. Yes, you could argue that this is offset by the increased probability of Arthur getting the sword if he is in the pool, but that creates far too much of a risk factor of Arthur being outside of the pool.

Varsoon, Something_Smart is correct here. The risk factor of Arthur being outside the pool doesn't matter, because the probability of Arthur being in the pool multiplies with individual probabilities of getting the sword to 1/12 anyway. No matter what the pool is, as long as non-zero, there's a 1/12 chance Arthur gets it.

That said, I don't know why that question was relevant.

Auro · Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:46 am

In post 1050, Auro wrote:I don't think any significant exchange between any two people is going to convincingly give me reason to believe they're scum in the usual case at this point

One reason it's hard to make any objective cases IMO is that for a lot of players, a lot of their actions can be written off to playstyle, and therefore that has to be factored in -- and often it just obfuscates their play to me. Like people have pointed out what information I'm using to inform my read WRT players like Firebringer/UT is actually their playstyle :/

That said, I'd love to hear a case on UT, since he seems to be highly hurt at this point.

Auro · Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:58 am

In post 1053, Varsoon wrote:@Auro: Yes, if we're talking about the probability of an individual being Arthur and getting the sword but since Arthur is NOT INFORMED, everyone should go for the sword because otherwise the probability becomes 0 the second Arthur doesn't go for the sword. Furthermore, if less people go for the sword, there's also a higher probability of scum killing the sword-claimer.

But who Arthur is is unknown information to anyone who isn't Merlin. At the end, (if at least one town is claiming) one person gets the sword only. "Arthur didn't go for the sword" is information that's available only once we know whether the people who went for it didn't contain Arthur in them. A probability calculation outside of this information (which isn't available for us) is still 1/12 as long as someone does claim it.
I don't think I'm the best at explaining this, tho, but I'm sure it's right.

I agree with you about the last part, this is why I said even if someone doesn't want to for some reason, they shouldn't say that -- act like they're going for the sword anyways so scum can't narrow down on lynches.

Auro · Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:05 am

Something_Smart, I honestly think debating over *whether* it's 1/12 or not is not fruitful.

Where are you trying to go with that?

Auro · Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:09 am

In post 1059, Varsoon wrote:Can you go more into your reads, S_S? How is this genuine Auro? What feels scum about UT? Why do you need experience to properly read 1/3 of the slots in the game?

I'm getting less confident with my townread on Something_Smart, I'm trying to find his logical conclusion to the discussion at the moment so we can get there fast and progress to other useful stuff.

I don't know what feels scummy about UT. Gamma's reason to scumread him seems weird -- I just checked, and UT did not play that game. I'm actually kinda towning UT from gut.

I probably need experience to *accurately* read a lot of slots, I'm still reading them based on their play this game alone, other players are telling me I'm wrong. *Shrug* And I probably am.

Auro · Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:15 am

Ohhh, I thought you were asking me "How is this genuine, Auro?", misread my posts earlier this page where I asked for a case on UT, and questioned me about what I said about my reads not necessarily being accurate because of my lack of knowledge of playstyles.

What did you make of my response to you earlier?
Same baseline for? Malleable in what sense?

Auro · Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:18 am

Well, one difference is that I'm *trying* to engage when I can, and am throwing out agreements/disagreements/reads.
I think regardless of accuracy, this is important because it can help others get a feel of whether it's manufactured/genuine, and scum more often than not can come off as manufactured.

Auro · Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:25 am

Was waiting for someone to say this^

Yeah I'll shut up now for a while unless questioned.

Auro · Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:08 am

Pagetop.

My conclusion on the 1/12 probability is because I'm sure it's mathematically correct.
His conclusions on finding an amount of town cohesion, etc resonated with me --> Right now I think it's pretty useless to talk mechanics.

Got it (Malleability)

Auro · Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:11 am

I totally agree with that. What does that have to do with 1050?

Auro · Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:14 am

Dude, I agreed with S_S that the probability of Arthur getting it is 1/12 if at least one town goes for it.
I disagree that this implies we shouldn't have all town go for it.
I was wondering where he was going with the whole "1/12 no matter" argument, that's why *I* asked for *his* logical conclusion to it.

Auro · Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:28 am

And I was questioned.

Elsa, if you're going to duel LLD in 6 hours, you'd get my policy vote.
Anyway, I'll now shut up *and* respond to questions after 24 hours. See y'all.

Auro · Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:53 am

In post 1380, Elsa Jay wrote:Honestly if she had let me battle her, she saw how many people (yourself included) would have voted me, she definitely had a decent chance of winning. So your saying that she, as scum, would go for the even harder push on Maria? That Seems less optimal as scum.

Jay, who are you voting for, then?
My policy vote thing was to see your reaction -- you were advancing the game, I think your posts today made you pretty much town to me.

I'm leaning towards voting Maria.

Auro · Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:28 am

In post 1388, SirCakez wrote:I can't believe people are buying LLD's desperation gladiate and are actually considering voting Maria.
@auro
@fire
Why?
Also @elsa wtf are you in about?

LLD dueling Maria does seem pretty sub-optimal to me, l feel like she would've won much easier with other targets. She could've easily said "UT is a scumread and also is the contesus" and gladiated him. What am I missing here?

Why can this not come from town!LLD who's towning Jay, and scumreading Maria?

(Also, I'm towning you and Gamma Emerald, and I also think Ariane's slot could likely be scum)

Auro · Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:31 am

Consensus* sorry.
However, she did say dueling me is good as opposed to a big personality because of my polarizing reads primarily, so I dunno why she didn't gladiate me; unless that logic applies only when my other dueler isn't a big personality, or she's townreading me.

Auro · Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:58 pm

In post 1398, Varsoon wrote:
In post 1392, SirCakez wrote:I disagree, I think LLD was guaranteed to lose pretty much any matchup. This Maria move reads like a desperate gambit to induce this kind of WIFOM (I;e why would she do that as scum???) And her read progression on Elsa makes little sense.

I think LLD's ate and random massive burst of activity when Elsa was going to glad her seem pretty transparently scum
Basically this, coupled with misgivings about how the slot's handled reads and the gladiate in general.
I also felt like LLD was trying to be all "I WILL TAKE EXCALIBUR"-vocal to try to town-signal hard but when UT and I did the same, it lessened LLD's chances of being townread for it, and now they're going with a Gladiate under the notion, perhaps, that UT and I will go for the sword even now instead of leaving it up for LLD to pull it.

Makes sense, thanks. I was feeling she was getting scumread for gladiating Maria, but the reasons are independent of that.

VOTE: LLD

Auro · Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:36 am

In post 1490, Dunnstral wrote:I've changed my mind, Maria is scum here

Can you detail a bit more?

Auro · Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:26 am

In post 1493, SirCakez wrote:No idea why S_S died, he was eating a lot of scumreads.

Plus two people hypoclaimed in D1, I was thinking the NK might have been from that set. Interesting.

Untrod Tripod is Arthur.

Auro · Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:27 pm

In post 1499, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
In post 1495, Kokichi Oma wrote:
In post 1476, Elsa Jay wrote:I think your kinda forgetting about the duel mechanic, Kokichi-chan.
Oh right lol

HURT: varsoon
Do you think scum!Varsoon kills his biggest scumread?

It's not implausible that scum!Varsoon thought that S_S wasn't so easy to mislynch, and was genuinely annoyed by S_S to the point of wanting to kill him. Does look like a framing kill tho.

Auro · Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:29 pm

In post 1472, Kokichi Oma wrote:
In post 1471, Varsoon wrote:Welppp
Hypoclaim time.
Elsa Jay is Arthur.
still a bad idea

Please explain why?

Auro · Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:39 pm

In post 1458, MariaR wrote:I'm not doing it just so I can be a nk I rather play the game ty.

In post 1459, MariaR wrote:The people going for the sword should be SS UT Dva Kokichi

Didn't like these posts much.
Either town!Maria *really* didn't want to claim it, or scum!Maria was trying to evade. Hmm~

Auro · Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:04 pm

In post 1528, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:Someone who wants both SS and Varsoon out of the game, perhaps?

I'm still thinking as to what benefit scum would have by killing S_S. Are there players who rolled scum with him in previous games, and thought he might more easily read them? Or am I overthinking this, Nancy?

I know NKA isn't fruitful, but... This kill is interesting.

Auro · Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:10 pm

Is it a reasonable expectation from town to submit to a governed Excalibur cop, at the cost of possibly being a NK? I think it absolutely is, since it helps the game move forward a great deal. Maria, do you not think so?

Auro · Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:34 pm

@Nancy:
Exactly. Had she not asked specific people to take it, it would've looked a lot better and I would've written off her hesitation to take the sword as WIFOM to avoid a NK.

Naming specific people implies an intention of *actually* wanting to not claim the sword.

Auro · Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:40 pm

Nancy, I think Dunn knows it's claimed, he's saying that Maria was backing off after saying she'd claim it because it seemed that Varsoon and UT were backing off too, and she would've been outed IF the sword was unclaimed. What was your point in 1542?

Auro · Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:46 pm

In post 1535, Auro wrote:Is it a reasonable expectation from town to submit to a governed Excalibur cop, at the cost of possibly being a NK? I think it absolutely is, since it helps the game move forward a great deal. Maria, do you not think so?

Maria, opinion on this?

Auro · Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:55 pm

In post 1550, MariaR wrote:Maybe. I can see pros and cons for both I just know I cared about my own survival more to play another day then do 2 things I hate being `1) If I did have the sword be clear and have to kill myself later or 2) Just die outright so I took option 3) Not take the sword keep playing and someone else be clear.

You wouldn't have to kill yourself if you got the sword, it's still not proven that it's worth suicides to get the sword to Arthur.

I didn't get the last part about someone else being clear?

I actually like that Maria admits to not trying to claim the sword, and not excusing this as WIFOM. Seems genuine to me.

Auro · Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:58 pm

In post 1556, Dunnstral wrote:Option 4) Pretend you're going for the sword up until someone else hammers, then back off and list 4 other players to take the sword without there being any more time for discussion

Either she or LLD were gonna be lunched (using this word instead of "lynched") anyway, why would she backtrack only after the hammer? Scum!Maria would've been consistent about it from before anyway, right?

It never did really look like Maria would be lunched over LLD, too.

Auro · Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:01 pm

In post 1561, MariaR wrote:Look who scum nightkilled. Someone in my list.

Also, Something_Smart wanted Maria to go for the sword only if LLD flipped scum. If he was alive, he would've argued that it's fine for Maria not to have gone for it -- which leads me to think that scum may have planned a Maria push for today.

Auro · Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:07 pm

In post 1566, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
In post 1564, Auro wrote:
In post 1561, MariaR wrote:Look who scum nightkilled. Someone in my list.
Also, Something_Smart wanted Maria to go for the sword only if LLD flipped scum. If he was alive, he would've argued that it's fine for Maria not to have gone for it -- which leads me to think that scum may have planned a Maria push for today.
Are you scumreading Dunn then?

Nope, I'm just much less confident on Maria being scum.

Auro · Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:06 pm

Waiting for Penguin to swoop in with "This is Auro's scumgame, Auro dies today"

Auro · Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:19 pm

Nancy, how well would you rate yourself on verifying how strong meta-tells can be?
I think there are some leads we can pursue here in the current gamestate, I don't think I'm good at this.

Auro · Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:39 pm

In post 1670, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
In post 1667, Auro wrote:Nancy, how well would you rate yourself on verifying how strong meta-tells can be?
I think there are some leads we can pursue here in the current gamestate, I don't think I'm good at this.
Who are your leads?

I'm a bit busy ATM, have to read a bit more but: What's your take on Varsoon? In my last game with him, he was town, and seemed to lack direction, and is displaying a similar behavior here. Can this be AI for him?

Auro · Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:09 pm

In post 1675, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:I dunno, I think you also can’t ignore how the mechanics are affecting play. Other than his initial freakouts at DVa and SS, nothing about his play has particularly pinged me. Why? Are you suspicious of him now?

No, the opposite -- his disengaged style seems to be town-indicative to me.
I've not read any meta, and I know that Varsoon's hard to read, but I have a hunch that scum!Varsoon might try to drive the game more, generally speaking. I think Varsoon's experienced enough to not let his play be affected by mechanics.

Auro · Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:14 pm

In post 1678, Gamma Emerald wrote:Wow I was closer to done than I thought
Also I thought about what I want to happen today, and I’m thinking Dunn should gladiate MariaR
HURT: Dunnstral
HURT WITH A BLADE: MariaR

Why do you scumread Dunnstral? He's the only one actually pushing while everyone else seems to be lurking away, no?

Auro · Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:41 am

In post 1684, Varsoon wrote:
In post 1661, Auro wrote:Waiting for Penguin to swoop in with "This is Auro's scumgame, Auro dies today"
Why would you be worried about this as town?
Unless you're laying down your scumgame as town for some reason?

In jest, I'm not worried at all.

I usually use a

emoticon when I'm joking around.

Auro · Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:21 am

Ah. It renders way to small for me. I zoomed in and yeah, it does look a little bit evil. There's one easy alternative tho :p (heheh)

Auro · Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:26 am

Winky seems very mildly provocative.

Gamma, can you present a case on Maria independent of the Dunn associative? I'm not convinced by Dunn's case, and am very weakly leaning town on MariaR.

Auro · Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:31 am

There's 4.5 days remaining -- the lurking makes me *very* uncomfortable with MariaR being in the spotlight.

I'd much rather lunch a lurk slot.

Auro · Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:38 am

In post 1694, Varsoon wrote:I thought you were town in that last game and I think you're town here. :/

I think what prompted you to townread me last game was my activity? I judged that it's possible to "earn" a townread from you by playing somewhat aggressively and actively, in an earnest way. I even added some line about not replacing out, just for that pocket.

I'm town this time, tho, I'll try probing that through actions. *Shrug*

Auro · Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:56 am

In post 1698, Varsoon wrote:Like even you sweeping back into mechanics talk with spoilers= tags strikes me as particularly anti-town and appeasing.

Appeasing who, though? Seems like a great deal of players here are *against* it, no?

If you're talking about the spoilering, it's because at least one player has gone "I'm skipping all of this, because mechanics blech", and I don't want anyone to use that excuse. This is me actually interested in best mechanical play.

Why is spoilering anti-town, when not doing so causes players to refuse to read through other content too?
Why is mechanic talk (especially that I've toned it down) necessarily anti-town?

Auro · Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:14 am

But there's no *benefit* to mechanic talk, spoilered or not, to scum!Me, especially because mechanic talk clearly appeases no one. I don't think there's much more to say beyond that my motivation there was to prevent players from going "I didn't read cos mechanics", but okay.

On the other hand tho, this actually helped contribute to my townlean on you - since your reaction to me as opposed to S_S seemed pretty natural, and scum!You attacking players for mech talk would have probably not made that distinction.

What do you think of the Dunn|Maria exchange? Do you think that lunching a lurker slot is good, if everyone continues to lurk?

Auro · Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:41 am

Right. Said WIFOM benefit is pretty small as opposed to the risk of it, given this playerlist. There are much easier ways to appease people, so I'd argue that it's bad scumplay, WIFOM considered.

Hmm. What's troubling you WRT this game? Is it because of the lurker slots, like in our last game? I honestly don't know what could encourage lurkers to be a part of game, other than negative reinforcement that lurking would get them lunched.

Auro · Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:49 am

In post 1472, Kokichi Oma wrote:
In post 1471, Varsoon wrote:Welppp
Hypoclaim time.
Elsa Jay is Arthur.
still a bad idea

I asked why in 1521, and you didn't answer.
I repeat, what makes you think so?

In post 1475, Kokichi Oma wrote:nah he was pretty towny imo.

VOTE: Varsoon

No explanation for the Varsoon "vote".
You didn't even comment on Varsoon/Something_Smart in D1, most of your posts seemed pretty fluff to moi.

In post 1622, Kokichi Oma wrote:So who is scum

In post 1629, Kokichi Oma wrote:So who is gonna gladiate who

This is lazy play -- what happened to your Varsoon read?

FoS: Kokichi Oma

Auro · Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:56 am

In post 1704, Varsoon wrote:Was it? Who's scumreading you right now?
The whole point of a gamble is that there's risks involved but a reward as well, Auro.

Yeah, I am heavily reminded of our last game, where I'm dubious of the actually active slots and there's a handful of lurker slots that I'm worried are ALL just town.

I don't think "He'd not continue mechanic talk therefore he's town" contributed to the townreads to me, and I'd prolly be wary if THAT actually did to someone. My contention is that the reward is meh (a weak contributing factor to a potential townread to *few* players) at best, and I wouldn't have done that for WIFOM, at least, judging the risks.

Hmm, but at scale, and considering that a few slots seem to be active elsewhere (unlike our last game) -- I feel like lurking may be deliberate.

Auro · Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:14 am

I see that, but there's a difference between:
"Why are you scumreading me? Look at X, I'd not do that as scum!" and
"X in isolation should be treated NAI, because there's no benefit in scum!me doing X".
I'm saying the latter right now.

I think scum lurking has benefits:
- town!MariaR being scumread
- Gladiation mechanics meaning town would want to gladiate soon, within 2 days
- Other slots lurking, so easier to mix in

It's hard to pinpoint that one specific person is, I think we should just force engagement from everyone and see what happens.
Also, one Q: If there's a TvT gladiation, can their vote distributions be indicative?

Auro · Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:36 am

X was referencing the spoilered posts -- I think there were only 2-3 of them?
In any case, I think I've tried to engage otherwise too to a good deal, saying that I'm active lurking would be unfair.

Auro · Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:45 pm

HURT: Kokichi Oma

MariaR wrote:That kokichi read is out of left field tbh

Explain, please?

Auro · Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:56 pm

@Maria:

Spoiler:

Auro · Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:06 pm

So do you agree that Kokichi is scummy, MariaR?

Auro · Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:35 pm

In post 1748, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:I don’t think Merlin challenges Dunn to gladiate them, unless they’re very confident of winning

I think DVa meant that there's a chance an absent slot is Merlin (which wouldn't claim if gladiated cos absent), and so we might lose Merlin if we lunch an absent slot.

Auro · Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:54 pm

In post 1745, MariaR wrote:We both know you don't have the balls to gladiate me soooo

If you're not scumreading Dunnstral, what are you trying to achieve by this post?

Auro · Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:16 am

In post 1759, Kokichi Oma wrote:Nah. Not claiming Arthur.

Why not? You *will* be NK'ed anyway and we'd never know, losing an IC, as DVa said -- which part of this is wrong?

Auro · Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:26 am

If by "reasons" you're referring to a crumb,
1. The crumb is pretty obvious (I think)
2. Does that even matter? O.o

Who's your scumread? Not Varsoon?

Auro · Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:29 am

In post 1763, Kokichi Oma wrote:I'm thinking of just gladiating my scumread so it's a guaranteed lynch

Ew, also people could No Lunch.

Auro · Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:04 am

@MariaR,
You're not scumreading me;
I'm not really scumreading DVa now;

Why do you want me killed?
What are *all* your reasons for scumreading DVa?
What happened to your read on Untrod Tripod? Also I think DVa asked you to explain it, have you?

Auro · Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:15 am

Your reasons for the DVa scumread are pretty weak IMO
The mood in this game seems pretty passive, I doubt anyone's gonna really feel the same as previous active games. (I think Nancy would agree with me here)

Is DVa your *only* scumread, then, apart from UT?
Why are you opposed to lunching a lurkslot?

Auro · Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:19 am

In post 1775, MariaR wrote:is one line of actions you've done that I explained already.

Sorry, I couldn't find that in your ISO, maybe I'm just too dense.
Can you quote where you explained that?

Auro · Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:22 am

In post 1778, MariaR wrote:It's my reasoning regardless and given the reads I have already it's strong enough to be a read I want to push.

Okay. Can you post a reads list?
Can you case UT?

MariaR wrote:We lynch a good slot today and wait for replacements.

If I get lunched and flip town, what would you infer from that?
So lurker slots would survive while an active, content-generating null (FYPOV) slot dies, do you think that benefits the gamestate?

Auro · Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:28 am

In post 1781, MariaR wrote:None of you are doing anything.

What are you doing? Gladiating isn't the ONLY thing we can do, we can also, y'know, scumhunt, engage, make cases?

Auro · Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:07 am

In post 1809, Kokichi Oma wrote:Because Merlin says so. Now vote fire

VOTE: MariaR

Auro · Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:08 am

In post 1812, Kokichi Oma wrote:Dva blatant scum

Why?

Auro · Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:14 am

In post 1814, MariaR wrote:Funny that no one can explain why I'm scum besides and I quote 'pings at end of day'

In post 1778, MariaR wrote:I don't really care if you find my reasoning weak tbh. It's my reasoning regardless and given the reads I have already it's strong enough to be a read I want to push.
I'm opposed to lynching a lurk slot because that won't help the game state...at all. If they flip town we kinda throw our hands in the air and go "welp oh well!"
We lynch a good slot today and wait for replacements.

This reasoning can't apply to your slot from our point of view?

Auro · Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:19 am

"For that"? No, I was weakly leaning town much earlier, and after your recent posts leaning scum.

Auro · Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:10 pm

Elsa has a history of fakeclaiming as town, IIRC.

Auro · Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:46 pm

So this means you're not gonna shoot, right?

Auro · Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:10 pm

In post 1980, DVa wrote:Like Maria claiming to have the sword as scum when she doesn't have the sword just does not really sound like a thing that happens so I'm having a really hard time buying this CC ngl

Why not? Fishing for the sword holder?

Auro · Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:34 pm

In post 1986, Dunnstral wrote:If you guys don't understand why I came into the day pushing on Maria when I knew she had the sword I can go over it if you'd like?

Yeah, please do? To see who pushes her too?

Auro · Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:24 pm

@Dunn, what do you think of Kokichi?

Auro · Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:29 pm

VOTE: Firebringer

Auro · Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:31 pm

In post 2012, Firebringer wrote:i actually was meh on maria until dunnstral pushed maria and i was like "maybe dun has a point here"

Really? Dunn's case was pretty unconvincing, even he says that now. Nancy and I both didn't buy that.

Auro · Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:39 pm

In post 2018, DVa wrote:so like it's really easy for me to see Fire's play here coming from bored, misguided town, and it's way easier for me to see that than opportunistic scum

this is one of those games where scum isn't saying jack shit and town is just eating itself apart because they're the ones who happen to be posting

Exactly.

Auro · Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:40 pm

In post 2017, Firebringer wrote:VOTE: Firebringer

You could still argue for a No Lunch, ya know. O.o
I don't see town OR scum motivation in self voting.

Auro · Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:42 pm

UNVOTE: Firebringer
Don't think we should rush this, wanna sort some things out first

Auro · Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:43 pm

In post 2023, Firebringer wrote:if i played by motivation, i would be easier to read.
i don't like being easy to read.

i play by how i feel. and i feel like someone who doesn't want to play

Don't play against your win-con. Try replacing out maybe?

Auro · Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:13 pm

In post 2037, MariaR wrote:I'm just wondering if I should shoot or not atm. I lean yes

I thought it was a night-time shot?
Also you're not Arthur, so this is suicide, right?

Auro · Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:15 pm

I think you should keep the sword.

Auro · Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:05 am

SirCakez, do you not buy Dunn's claim?
What do you think are the chances of MariaR being scum?

Auro · Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:08 am

@Nancy: IF MariaR can be scum, that means Dunn is scum.
If she's lunched, flipping town, we make UT + a scumread slot go for the sword. The NK is going to be gated to UT, thus letting Merlin live to D3 and also have a confscum or IC too.

Auro · Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:14 am

At the same time, I think a "real" Merlin would've called out Dunn's claim, so Dunn is definitely Merlin. Meh

Can you explain a bit more about the Firebringer read? You mentioned D1 interactions, which ones?

Auro · Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:17 am

Nancy, if you're town and correct about Dunn, Firebringer, MariaR, and DVa (I think you're towning her too), we can PoE this list to a great deal!

@Varsoon: Yes, but aggressively pushing against Dunn's explanation for being Merlin

Auro · Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:25 am

Auro
Dunnstral, MariaR, UT
DVa, Firebringer, Nancy
VeridianCleric
--
Elsa Jay
Not Known 15
Varsoon, SirCakez, Gamma Emerald
Kokichi Oma, PP

7 below the --, 4 of which are scum, and Elsa, SirCakez look towny to me.

Auro · Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:26 am

Oh and Varsoon looks town too, but wary of that read.

Auro · Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:28 am

Let's just refine and reshuffle reads there and lunch away in future days? :3

Auro · Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:31 am

In post 2061, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
In post 2057, Auro wrote:Oh and Varsoon looks town too, but wary of that read.
You forgot the Penguin. I fail to see anything townie about him.

He's at the bottom of my list.

Auro · Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:35 am

I think Kokichi is more definite?

Auro · Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:38 am

In post 2067, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
In post 2065, Auro wrote:I think Kokichi is more definite?
He definitely could be scum here but he read Maria as town, which puts him a leg up over the bird but both seems scummy to me.

Why on Earth would he do this if he's not Merlin if Maria is town though?!

Auro · Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:39 am

Oh NVM. Claimed Merlin cos he was gonna be the lunch candidate.

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:57 am

VOTE: Firebringer
Meh

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:28 am

Firebringer himself doesn't want to play the game, right? >.>
Also well, shouldn't you be voting MariaR then? I think Kokichi did say she doesn't have the sword?

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:56 am

In post 2134, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
In post 2131, Auro wrote:Firebringer himself doesn't want to play the game, right? >.>
Also well, shouldn't you be voting MariaR then? I think Kokichi did say she doesn't have the sword?
So that makes her scum only if she is lying about claiming it.

And you don't know if she lied or not, therefore unless you're 99.9% townreading her too, I think your vote should be there?

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:04 am

In post 2136, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:Why are you voting for Fire, since I’m telling you that he has a 99.999% chance of flipping town? How are you or anyone else down with getting townie blood on your hands?

I'm not seeing the 99.999%? I mean, can you bring up the specific interactions which make you think so?
I want to vote Maria, but "Merlin said not to" I think it's safer to follow that ATM.
I think you're town, Nancy -- if you can show me how Fire is that certainly town, I'll switch my vote to Maria.

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:11 am

In post 2092, Kokichi Oma wrote:
In post 2060, Varsoon wrote:I know Maria has the sword, it's not a matter of belief.
She doesnt have the sword. I'm Merlin. I know who does.

In post 2093, Kokichi Oma wrote:By the way, person with sword dont shoot maria, shes prob town.

Kokichi says Maria doesn't have the sword.

In post 2116, MariaR wrote:
In post 2096, Kokichi Oma wrote:Maria would never use the ATE of threatening to blacklist someone if she was scum (if so I would lose a lot of respect for her) unless RC is playing on her account. Lol
If it makes you feel better I was faking it.

Kokichi seemed to be majorly TRing Maria off that AtE, Maria did admit it was fake.

@Nancy: Why are you townreading Maria? Why aren't you voting her, then?

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:13 am

Then I think you're the correct lunch tomorrow.
What have you achieved by your fakeclaim, Kokichi Oma?

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:02 pm

Jay, how serious are you about having the sword?

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:32 pm

In post 2336, Elsa Jay wrote:
In post 2333, Auro wrote:Jay, how serious are you about having the sword?
Ai yai yai. Do I have to put it in my signature for you that I got the sword?

I mean, I already learned my lesson with signatures, so I ain't doing that, but you get the point.

So we lunch MariaR today, and if it turns out that she has the sword, lunch you D3. Sounds good?

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:33 pm

In post 1978, Elsa Jay wrote:
In post 1972, Auro wrote:So this means you're not gonna shoot, right?
Why wouldn't I stab tonight? I can probably get rid of the lurker slots as auther better then glatiations and lynches being wasted.

And if I die, well obviously Varsoon fucked me real good by convincing me I'm actually Auther to make me suicide.

Pedit: is Mood swings a reliable answer, Dva?

Varsoon said MariaR had the sword. FYPOV he can't be Merlin, right?

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:38 pm

MariaR, how likely is it that Firebringer is scum? What do you think of the "Fire is 99.99% town" arguments? If Fire agrees not to gladiate you D3, would you vote No Lunch?

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:47 pm

Either Jay is game throwing, or one of {MariaR, Jay} is definitely scum -- and Jay wants MariaR lunched.
Why would scum! Jay do this? Either the Swordholder dying is so beneficial to scum that they can lose one member, or... Firebringer is scum, and he thought he could save him?

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:51 pm

And IIRC, amidst all the fakeclaims, *no one* said Jay had the sword -- this means Jay's claim is pretty probably fake, which means he's scum.

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:58 pm

In post 2345, Elsa Jay wrote:
In post 2344, Auro wrote:And IIRC, amidst all the fakeclaims, *no one* said Jay had the sword -- this means Jay's claim is pretty probably fake, which means he's scum.

*Ignored Varsoon vehemently saying I'm Auther and Kokichi's claim matching up with mine*

*Somebody's aiming for a bad time*

Varsoon also said MariaR had the sword.
So either Merlin!Varsoon is lying, or Varsoon isn't Merlin FYPOV.
Which is it?

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:01 pm

"Had the sword" being key here. Not "Jay is Arthur".

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:07 pm

In post 2348, Varsoon wrote:Jay can also just be Arthur faking to have the sword.

Which means he's pushing for a lunch on the Swordholder, which is sorta throwing the game?

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:09 pm

In post 2349, Elsa Jay wrote:Varsoon is confirming I'm auther but lying about me not having the sword.

Kokichi is confirming auther has the sword but not directly confirming it's me.

Either is true from your point of view. Both are true in mine.

So you're saying Varsoon lied that MariaR has the sword. Why'd he do that?

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:10 pm

In post 1867, Varsoon wrote:You're full of shit.
I'm Merlin.
Elsa Jay is Arthur.
Maria R has the sword.

I faked hard at grabbing the sword N1 to throw scum off my scent and not kill me N1.

@Elsa Jay, this is what I'm referring to.
"MariaR has the sword"

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:19 pm

UNVOTE:
Unless that's a hammer?

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:20 pm

In post 2342, Auro wrote:MariaR, how likely is it that Firebringer is scum? What do you think of the "Fire is 99.99% town" arguments? If Fire agrees not to gladiate you D3, would you vote No Lunch?

MariaR, once you answer this, I'll be ready to vote Fire again.

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:33 pm

"One of me, Maria is lying. Her flip will tell us who. Firebringer is not part of this tho, so I want him killed."

I think this is scum!Jay screwing around after I pointed out the logical inconsistency.

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:36 pm

If Jay's alive D3, I think he'd be a good lunch

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:45 pm

In post 2366, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
In post 2360, Auro wrote:If Jay's alive D3, I think he'd be a good lunch
If I die, powerlynch Elsa.

If Elsa lives and Kokichi doesn't confirm Elsa's Arthur, I'll powerlunch Jay.

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:51 pm

In post 2370, Elsa Jay wrote:Well arent you gonna look horrible when you die from doing gladitorial combat.

Lady challenged. Lady died. Fire challenged. Looks like fire dies.

Let's make it 3/3, fiendish knight. On the honor of the kingdom, I shall vanquish you.

LOL. If you have the sword and shoot Nancy, either she dies or you die -- so this case shouldn't even arise.

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:51 pm

In post 2374, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:ISO Elsa in Overkill 1, he had us all 100% convinced he was doc. I’d trust Varsoon over Elsa any day.

I was questioning him go get his line of thought.

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:14 pm

In post 2393, Firebringer wrote:i just realized i have a controversial opinion that chara might be scum.

so my list is looking
{Dva, Dunnstral}
{Jay, Varsoon}
{Nancy, Gamma Emerald}
{UT, Cakez, PenguinPower, Not Known15} <--null
{Auror, Chara}
{Kokichi, Maria}

You think Maria's lying about having the sword?

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:17 pm

In post 2399, Firebringer wrote:
In post 2397, Auro wrote:You think Maria's lying about having the sword?
yes

Do you think Merlin hasn't claimed yet?
If one of the Merlin claims so far is true, which one can it be?

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:19 pm

In post 2403, Firebringer wrote:
In post 2402, Auro wrote:
In post 2399, Firebringer wrote:
In post 2397, Auro wrote:You think Maria's lying about having the sword?
yes
Do you think Merlin hasn't claimed yet?
If one of the Merlin claims so far is true, which one can it be?
i don't know and don't care at this point.

Nancy, you're 99.99% towning this?

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:25 pm

In post 2258, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
In post 1243, Firebringer wrote:fuck i actually think lld might be town and i have to seriously go through my read on maria.
>_>

In post 1305, Firebringer wrote:i am not sure either of u are scum.
also not sure why ur in this hole where ur so sure of ur read.

In post 1419, Firebringer wrote:its posts like that irk me but also don't really make me think ur scum.

In post 1420, Firebringer wrote:i think i unconvinced myself on u being scum maria.
aflkdjlkfajl

In post 1421, Firebringer wrote:i hate u
@Auro

I don't see how these posts make him obv!town

Why would these be so hard to fake for him? Have you played with Fire before?

VOTE: Firebringer

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:45 pm

In post 2437, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 2402, Auro wrote:
In post 2399, Firebringer wrote:
In post 2397, Auro wrote:You think Maria's lying about having the sword?
yes
Do you think Merlin hasn't claimed yet?
If one of the Merlin claims so far is true, which one can it be?
Also this kind of Merlin fishing right now doesn't seem beneficial to the town, at the least

These were questions pointed at Firebringer, I want to evaluate whether Fire is scum or not.

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:46 pm

IMO the rampant fakeclaiming and confusion caused by it, leading to a probable no lunch, is also not beneficial to town at all.

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:48 pm

In post 2443, Firebringer wrote:frankly those are dumb questions on how to sort me.

My methods.

You responded with "I don't know, I don't care" which either means you're scum, or are useless to the game.
Made you look scummier to me, so I think it was useful.

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:52 pm

Spoiler:

That's a lame attempt, the moment you said that I asked Nancy how on earth she's 99.99% towning you, then voted you.

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:01 pm

@Elsa Jay
If you're gonna shoot between Nancy and me, please shoot me

Tell me if you're considering that though, I'll make a few ending posts that I hope would be even slightly useful to town once I'm dead.

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:06 pm

A: "Fire, a couple questions"
F: "I don't know, I don't care"
A: "How is this town? Vote: Fire"
F: "Frankly these are dumb questions to sort me"
F: "I'm offended you call me scummy"
F: "You didn't use my answer to sort me"
F: "Auro is scummy, do an ISO blah blah"

Looks a lot more scummy than towny to me. I seriously doubt a no lunch is better than lunching Fire.

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:06 pm

In post 2466, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
In post 2464, Auro wrote:@Elsa Jay
If you're gonna shoot between Nancy and me, please shoot me
Tell me if you're considering that though, I'll make a few ending posts that I hope would be even slightly useful to town once I'm dead.
Noooooo, I’d rather be water boarded and disembowled than have to read another Elsa post in this game. You take that back, meanie.

Or let's just be shot on successive days and go chill out in the dead thread?

Auro · Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:09 pm

In post 2469, Elsa Jay wrote:I got Maria sceduled for day 4, and I'm reserving day 3 for whatever happens that day.

Will day 5 suffice, Auro?

I'll take what I get, I guess.

Auro · Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:11 am

In post 2478, Gamma Emerald wrote:Plus claiming Kokichi’s claim backs her up when Kokichi claims Arthur has the sword

Well, Kokichi didn't say who Arthur is, so it's possible Jay has it and is Arthur.

Auro · Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:54 am

I don't see why lunching Fire is such a bad option?

Auro · Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:18 am

What? No lunching only lets them pick us off one by one through night kills, at least with lunches we could hit scum. O.o
I don't exactly follow your logic here.

Auro · Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:37 am

In post 2490, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 2488, Auro wrote:What? No lunching only lets them pick us off one by one through night kills, at least with lunches we could hit scum. O.o
I don't exactly follow your logic here.
Not EVERY DAY dummy. Just for today when we have all this confusion.

So you're thinking scum would take initiative in the next 14 hours if we're all voting to No Lunch? I still don't follow, sorray

Auro · Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:39 am

In post 2489, Kokichi Oma wrote:
In post 2340, Auro wrote:
In post 2336, Elsa Jay wrote:
In post 2333, Auro wrote:Jay, how serious are you about having the sword?
Ai yai yai. Do I have to put it in my signature for you that I got the sword?

I mean, I already learned my lesson with signatures, so I ain't doing that, but you get the point.
So we lunch MariaR today, and if it turns out that she has the sword, lunch you D3. Sounds good?
Scum post

Explain? Also lol, if I'm scum, who do you think are my buddies?

Auro · Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:39 am

In post 2494, Kokichi Oma wrote:NL ONLY HELPS SCUM. MY GOD

And I'm fighting against a No Lunch.
Are you towning Gamma and scumreading me?

Auro · Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:40 am

In post 2498, Kokichi Oma wrote:Not a town response. But lynch fire and I'll think it over

You know I'm not only voting Fire already, I'm trying to ask why on earth people are no lunching...

Auro · Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:42 am

In post 2501, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 2492, Auro wrote:
In post 2490, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 2488, Auro wrote:What? No lunching only lets them pick us off one by one through night kills, at least with lunches we could hit scum. O.o
I don't exactly follow your logic here.
Not EVERY DAY dummy. Just for today when we have all this confusion.
So you're thinking scum would take initiative in the next 14 hours if we're all voting to No Lunch? I still don't follow, sorray
They’d have to make a move at night.
It may seem counterintuitive but their kill can say a lot about who is lying and who is telling the truth

They have to make a move at night regardless of Fire's lunch. How would keeping Fire now be of any benefit?

Auro · Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:44 am

In post 2505, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 2493, Kokichi Oma wrote:JAY DOESNT HAVE SWORD. LYNCH FIRE
So the only other person claiming to have the sword iirc is Maria
Is this who it is?

Yeah, no one's saying Fire has the sword, also Fire looks scummy enough to be worth flipping, what's the problem?

Auro · Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:46 am

In post 2508, Kokichi Oma wrote:If fire lives hes gonna die the same exact thing tomorrow and we get 0 info from his no flip.

Exactly, the basis for people no lunching him seems to be some "99.99%" townread which I'm not seeing at all.

Auro · Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:47 am

In post 2511, Gamma Emerald wrote:Because we don’t know anything rn. Scum do, not everything but enough that their decisions can be telling
Moving the white knight and then moving him back is totally acceptable in chess, and I count thus move as similar

We don't know anything, and that's why we lunch and gain flips in the first place, no?
Who's scum, how did they bring about this situation, and what did they move back? Are you saying Fire is certainly town here?

Auro · Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:51 am

There's a non-negligible chance that Firebringer gladiates someone after being provoked into it, and the same "He's definitely town! No way we're killing him" logic squirms its way into a no lunch.

Auro · Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:10 am

In post 2515, Kokichi Oma wrote:
In post 2512, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 2506, Kokichi Oma wrote:Yes. Vote fire
And it took you this long to say this why?
I said it earlier. Maybe you missed it

I think he means you saying Jay has the sword *shrug*
What matters is that no one said Fire has the sword, rn

Auro · Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:16 am

@Gamma: What's your read on Fire? Town/null/scum?
If null, you should vote for him regardless of a case IMO

Auro · Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:19 am

In post 2467, Auro wrote:A: "Fire, a couple questions"
F: "I don't know, I don't care"
A: "How is this town? Vote: Fire"
F: "Frankly these are dumb questions to sort me"
F: "I'm offended you call me scummy"
F: "You didn't use my answer to sort me"
F: "Auro is scummy, do an ISO blah blah"

Looks a lot more scummy than towny to me. I seriously doubt a no lunch is better than lunching Fire.

I think this interaction, plus his bad reads list, is enough reason to vote him.

Auro · Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:22 am

In post 2393, Firebringer wrote:i just realized i have a controversial opinion that chara might be scum.

so my list is looking
{Dva, Dunnstral}
{Jay, Varsoon}
{Nancy, Gamma Emerald}
{UT, Cakez, PenguinPower, Not Known15} <--null
{Auror, Chara}
{Kokichi, Maria}

Auro · Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:26 am

In post 2076, Chara wrote:deadline is in two days, so i suppose i'll read sooner than soonish.
unless someone has a major argument for Fire being town i'll lynch that, really. unless there's some mechanical reason that makes no-lynching preferable to flipping someone who could go either way*.

Speaking of which, Chara, vote?

Auro · Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:34 am

Vote!

Auro · Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:37 am

In post 2533, Gamma Emerald wrote:I might. I have something I might like to present. I want to do it in proper fashion though.

When? Before the day ends?
Waiting to hear it.

Auro · Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:08 am

In post 2542, SirCakez wrote:You're ignoring the decent chance that Elsa is just badtowning. Either way they prob need death before endgame unless they are legit about having the sword which is just ???? to me right now

Haha, I'm not ignoring it -- there's a possibility, but it's more fruitful for him as scum anyway. I wanted to see if he'd retract his claim, but he seems to have kept it.

Auro · Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:10 am

In post 2544, SirCakez wrote:there are scummy people on both the fire and no lynch wagons
fire flip would be really useful but I also get the vibes it's what scum wants
somebody help me decide who is not kokichi b/c he is scum

Yeah I don't like the compositions on either wagon.
We should evaluate whether the Fire lunch actually benefits scum -- keeping him can actually be bad for town since he's not playing the game, and might lolgladiate again tomorrow, right?