Mafiascum.net

Doughboy hasn't posted in nearly three days. I looked back to the rules masterpost and don't see any activity rules. Are we still doing prods at 2 days, three prods = force replace?

Sorry if this reads as me telling the mod how to do their job. I just haven't played on site in a long time, and it's possible the standard changed.

In post 199, mbaki wrote:I townread Dann's reaction to Gamma Emerald. Not sure if I townread Gamma Emerald.

VOTE: Doughboy

Anything to say on Doughboy?

I townread half the game and he is not in that half.

I feel its appropriate to let you know he informed me that he was in a car accident and will be in the hospital for a while. Send him some love if you have time.

My vote stays on that slot for lack of a better place to put it right now, but my condolences.

Ok

Where is everybody? I've been rereading all my old games waiting for this game to pick up, and it just seems like nobody is interested.

I’ll review later tonight. Keep getting side tracked.

In post 156, mbaki wrote:I have glazed over almost every Mewtaph post this game. Just the way he types I guess.

Does scum say this? I don’t think mafia tends to say shit like this.

I think Mbaki, Podo, and Bri are town.

I think Dann leans town.

No clue on Gamma. Thought I knew how to read him and a game just wonder where I was wrong.

I’m hanging up the Mewtaph hat for now, I genuinely can’t tell if it’s a play style difference or I’m onto something but I’m willing to look elsewhere.

Bri made a good point about Xtom and I’m not parking my vote on a slot that needs replaced so

VOTE: Xtotm

In post 203, Thespio wrote:I feel its appropriate to let you know he informed me that he was in a car accident and will be in the hospital for a while. Send him some love if you have time.

That's awful. I wish him a speedy recovery.

Okay. I reread the game and while it didn't quite give me the clarity I was hoping for I'm still gonna consolidate all my thoughts here and hope it sparks me or someone else looking at it. I imagine this will be quite the long post, and normally I'd apologize for that, but it looks like we're stuck for content anyway, so hopefully this encourages discussion of some sort or at the very least some posts from our in active slots.

READS:

Mewtaph -
Gamma Emerald -
mbaki -
LolWagons -

Podoboq -

Doughboy -

bristep123 -
Xtoxm -

As you can see, I town read basically all the active players right now, which is problematic. I'm not usually one to default to the "lurkers are always scum" thought process, and these are by no means definitive reads, but the others have town pinged me enough I kinda to think one of the lurking players is at least one part of the scum team. I'll start with my town reads.



Looking back over the game, the case on Mewtaph is pretty flimsy. One aspect of it is the phrasing of his initial questioning of LolWagons. Podoboq points out in post #86 that "How someone should go about achieving their town win condition" (the way Mewtaph initially phrased the question) is not as natural as "How town should go about achieving their win condition." By itself this is a good point. However, only two posts after Mewtaph initially phrased the question, he restated it in post #17 as "I want to hear how they think town should approach achieving their win condition..." Which completely matches the supposed "more natural" way of phrasing the question. This makes me think Mewtaph wasn't really paying special attention to how he was phrasing the question or else he would have stayed consistent with it.

There's also a lot of talk about how Mewtaph's posts are robotic and inorganic in general. His style of posting has been consistent, and glancing through his meta, I rather think this is just his style and not alignment indicative. His behavior and reactions to extreme pressure early on don't strike me as scum behavior either. His posts #37, #41, #94, and #171 all town ping me to varying degrees as specific examples. Respectively, I don't think scum!Mewtaph backs down from LolWagons as easily as he does, I don't think scum generally think in terms of what the "objectively best" place is to put their vote and rather what their scum reads should be, and finally I think scum!Mewtaph would be happy the Gamma push pops up to allow his wagon to fly under the radar for a bit, but he specifically prods bristep123 to comment on it.



As for Gamma Emerald, I've already largely explained this in previous posts, but I'll reiterate. Post #197 is extremely town. Scum generally just operates more carefully when it comes to their reads and how they got them, IMO. Furthermore, there's just no reason for Gamma to make the bad posts he did as scum—which is why I now peg it as a bad town entrance. Since the scum have daychat (I assume that's what "the mafia private thread will be predominantly open" means), it'd logically follow that Gamma could've made his attack on mbaki as some sort of distraction for the wagons on Podoboq or Mewtaph. As I've explained before, none of these scenarios make sense. There's no real reason to make such a blatantly bad move as scum and sit on it, unless it was just a huge blunder. But, I find town much more probably. Thus, this is probably the read I'm most confident about in the game.



I'll admit I don't have as specific reasons for mbaki and LolWagons being town, as it's mostly just gut feelings coming from their posts. I will say that of the two feuds with Mewtaph, I like LolWagons' side more than I like podoboq's push. His reactions to Mewtaph in posts #134 and #141 specifically also read town to me. As for mbaki, I just really like the way he uses his votes so far and how/where he pushes reads as town. I think scum would've gotten more involved in either the Mewtaph or Podoboq wagons and tried to push one of those, whereas mbaki admits he's not sure what his feelings are on either right now.



I have lots of conflicting feelings on Podoboq, moreso than any player. This was the slot I was most hoping rereading would clarify for me, but it just muddied the waters more. I dislike the unvote of the Mewtaph wagon on principle, as I think town would behave more like Gamma Emerald did in post #109 and not really care if they're putting what they thought to be a pretty icky slot to L-1. I also dislike Podoboq's case on Mewtaph in general. Posts #58, #62, #64 scum ping me quite a bit. Mostly because, the town read on bristep has no basis—or at least not one I understand—and scum generally town reads players for dumber reasons because they already know who is town. Then, his unvote I've gone into quite enough. The psychology of realizing he left Mewtaph at L-1 really rubs me wrong as I've said many times before, but enough on that. And then, the justification for his town read on bristep doesn't track, mostly because I don't think I was "spinning out" there? It doesn't really make sense, though doesn't ping me as hard as the weird unvote.

Despite all that, some of his posts, especially recent posts read town, enough that I'm second guessing some of the bad vibes I was getting earlier.

In post 187, podoboq wrote:

In post 184, mbaki wrote:It just seems odd that you'd choose to expand on bristep123 but pass Gamma Emerald as bad town and move on.

I moved on from him now because I had enough to feel satisfied at this point in the game. bristep happens to be voting one of my scumreads, one I've been rethinking. Then bristep comes in to provide a shred of analysis on something irrelevant to me, when I'm interested in an opinion on the person they're not only scumreading but voting. I'm not getting that, and it's frustrating.

I really like this post in particular. The reasoning for questioning bristep comes from a very town place, a place that wants to get accurate reads on people. Rethinking the Mewtaph scum read also gets townie points in my book.

In post 169, podoboq wrote:I was going to paraphrase how I feel about Gamma, which is that it seems like he lazily came to a bad conclusion and is just sticking to it despite the fact that it's pretty clearly a bad conclusion, but you wrote it better than I could.

I also can't fail to mention that podoboq got to the conclusion I eventually got to on Gamma Emerald much faster, one that I think is fully accurate. I think Gamma is town, and I think scum!podoboq pushes Gamma more than he does for making such a stupid move.

I'm not really sold either way on this slot. I echo mbaki's thoughts that only one of Mewtaph or podoboq is scum if at all, and while I personally think podoboq is the more likely of the two to flip red, I'm not confident enough to push for that lynch yet given the state of the game.



There's nothing much to say about the Doughboy slot. He has 7 posts and none of them are really related to any of the content in game.



Bristep and Xtoxm are actually basically as inactive as Doughboy! Though, they do have marginally more posts related to the actual game. As for Bristep, I don't like posts #24 nor #185. However, I admit this could be just a play style difference as I tend to be very transparent with my thoughts and people being secretive without much reason tends to read scummy for me.

Xtoxm is pretty much the worst. He has 7 posts, of which are related to the game. In two of them he says some things are vaguely town without much justification, and the other one is jumping on the easy Gamma bandwagon... without voting?

VOTE: Xtoxm

The bristep and Xtoxm slots are almost impossible to read—which if not scum, is at the very least anti-town—and at this point in the game, we more content from them. Still keeping an eye on podoboq, don't know exactly what to think about him yet. I keep going through his ISO and coming away with a different opinion each time. Xtoxm is the scummier of the two inactive slots, and at this point in the game, he really should be using his vote for something, regardless of his interest.

The Zodiac Killer or Zodiac was a serial killer who operated in Northern California from at least the late 1960s to the early 1970s. The killer's identity remains unknown. The Zodiac murdered victims in Benicia, Vallejo, Lake Berryessa, and San Francisco between December 1968 and October 1969.

VC

VOTE COUNT:

Mewtaph:

bristep123, podoboq

Xtoxm:

Dannflor, LolWagons

Podoboq

Mewtaph, Gamma Emerald

LolWagons:

Doughboy

Doughboy:

mbaki

No Vote:

Xtoxm

With 9 alive it takes 5 to Lynch.

Time Remaining:

(expired on 2018-12-27 19:05:03)

Doughboy will be replaced shortly, for the time being you can question this puppy:

In post 210, Dannflor wrote:lots of content

This post is super good. I'll post some thoughts tomorrow when I'm at work, but for now I'm good with getting off of Mewtaph.

UNVOTE:

Dannflor, Lolwagons, and mbaki is the town core I am working with.

Alright, let's do this. I don't like color coding my reads lists, because someone accused me in my first game on site of trying to subliminally affect others' perceptions. So in order to make this readable, I'm just gonna use my mod color for everyone!




LolWagons entire iso is trying to interact and sort players. I don't think there's anything specific I need to cite. At this point, LolWagons is playing a lot, and appears
to not be afraid to disagree with people. I like this slot a lot.


I don't think that reads list comes out with that level of detail from scum. Not at this point in the game at least, especially citing as much stuff from me as he did. I think being mixed on me is normal. I'm playing a rusty, back and forth game, trying to remember what things are actually scum tells and what things are just personal gripes of mine. I didn't even think to look at Mewtaph's town meta to see if he normally posts like this. That was dumb. I guess I get why people still think the unvote on Mewtaph was scummy. I think they're wrong, but I get it.

But anyway, Dannflor can be town right now for that readslist alone. There are a few other important things to me, like attempting to engage players on topics they've refused to comment on.


As I mentioned earlier, I just don't think Gamma makes the mistakes he's making as scum. In order to keep everything in one place, this is my opinion on GE.

In post 164, podoboq wrote:

In post 160, Dannflor wrote:I am actually on board with calling this revisionist history. If you read the exchange you see Xtoxm initiated the discussion about his alignment and asked mbaki what he thought. How does mbaki answering "Scum, I would guess." come close to looking like "he was taking an actual interest in the meta information that could be gained?"

Using something that didn't actually happen to support the reason you cherry-picked this interaction does look like revisionist history, because it's not just you mixing up who said what, it's you mixing up the whole chain of events and thinking it means something it doesn't.

Would scum openly misrep something so easy to just go back and check? Like, there's no way scum Gamma is intentionally misrepping this, knowing it takes 10 seconds to find out that it's not accurate. Using this as justification that Gamme is scum rather than he just mixed things up seems like a leap.

In post 169, podoboq wrote:

In post 166, mbaki wrote:So do you think Gamma Emerald is posting good, townie thoughts?

Good thoughts? Ha, no.
Townie thoughts? Yeah, probably.


I was going to paraphrase how I feel about Gamma, which is that it seems like he lazily came to a bad conclusion and is just sticking to it despite the fact that it's pretty clearly a bad conclusion, but you wrote it better than I could.

In post 166, mbaki wrote:I don't believe Gamma Emerald read the game and came to the conclusion his current nitpick is how he's going to find scum.

I agree. I don't think scum really does that.

If anyone has any questions about that, please ask me and I'll clarify.


While I'm personally annoyed and frustrated by how Mewtaph posts, I'm willing to respect it as just a difference in style rather than an indication that he's attempting to conceal something with all of his posts.

In post 171, Mewtaph wrote:

In post 170, bristep123 wrote:I'm not feeling the Gamma push, need to keep an eye on that. Especially Xtotm who only said 'Gamma is scumposting' but didn't vote. That's my thought anyway.

Is there any particular reason why you're willing to comment on the Gamma push here specifically over anything else that has happened in the game? Do you have any sort of stance towards me v LolWagons or me v podopoq?

I this. (I hate that I had to edit in the post that you were referring to, though. Can people make a little bit of an effort to actually be readable?)





I'm just gonna put this out there, I hate when people do this.

In post 213, mbaki wrote:Dannflor, Lolwagons, and mbaki is the town core I am working with.

Writing your own name instead of "myself" is a common and successful trick. On Survivor, there's an understanding that once your name is in people's mouths, it'll never leave. If you've been talked about being voted out, you will never truly be safe again, because it's a name people know has some kind of traction. In mafia, the same thing is true. "____, ____, and is the town core I am working with," makes other people see that people are talking about mbaki as part of a town core when they're skimming. It makes it look like mbaki is considered a part of town, but it's artificial, because the one putting yourself in that town core. It's like including yourself in your own readslist.

A less arcane problem is that this post just displays zero scumhunting, and is just coasting off of the town pool that Dannflor laid out. There is no controversy in mbaki's posts. There's no real thought. No action was taken to move the game forward, which, if he's scum, indicates he's happy with the current flow of the game. I'm worried this means that scum!mbaki is happy with us voting for xtoxm, but for now, I want to pressure that slot regardless.

I can't tell if mbaki's push on GE is scummy or not, but it's garbage either way. The fact that he came to the same conclusion, "I don't believe Gamma Emerald read the game and came to the conclusion his current nitpick is how he's going to find scum," but his next step was "therefore he's scum," doesn't make sense to me when that reads as extremely towny to me. Either mbaki is mistaking bad play for scummy play, or mbaki is just trying to justify his scumread without any real supporting evidence.

In post 208, LolWagons wrote:

In post 156, mbaki wrote:I have glazed over almost every Mewtaph post this game. Just the way he types I guess.

Does scum say this? I don’t think mafia tends to say shit like this.

This happens to be a good point. I'm conflicted on mbaki, but leaning scum.

In post 170, bristep123 wrote:I'm not feeling the Gamma push, need to keep an eye on that. Especially Xtotm who only said 'Gamma is scumposting' but didn't vote. That's my thought anyway.

I would like to force this person to play the game.


As far as I'm concerned, the only game related things this player has said are "podoboq's unvote was a town instinct," and "Gamma Emerald's post indicate he's scum." I don't think either of these posts indicate his alignment at all, except that his opinion about me was contrarian and his opinion about Gamma Emerald wasn't. Xtoxm needs to play this game also.
VOTE: Xtoxm


Nothing to say here, except I hope he's alright. Real life is more important than this dumb game we all play.

Hello everyone. Just punching in real quick. I'm going to do a thorough read and report back later.

Cheerio.

In post 216, Trekkie99 wrote:Hello everyone. Just punching in real quick. I'm going to do a thorough read and report back later.

Cheerio.

Take your time. Glad to have you.

In post 214, podoboq wrote:I don't like color coding my reads lists, because someone accused me in my first game on site of trying to subliminally affect others' perceptions.

I hadn't considered this before. I'll have to keep that in mind for the future, it's a good point.

Also interesting points on mbaki I hadn't considered. Not ready to hop on board the mbaki is scummy train, but that does remind me I wanted to ask:

mbaki what you think of Gamma Emerald now? I know you don't town read him. My biggest gripe is if he's scum, why the hell would scum do that? Is he just really bad scum? I suppose that argument gets a little into WIFOM territory but I just think bad town is >>> more likely than really bad scum.

In post 214, podoboq wrote:I'm worried this means that scum!mbaki is happy with us voting for xtoxm, but for now, I want to pressure that slot regardless.

Yea. At this point in the game the read lists are good, but they aren't enough content-wise given we're still in the thick of D1. With 3 of the 9 slots in this game not really participating it's very hard for the rest of us to move forward.

Also, I could be wrong in this, as maybe I'm townreading too many people, but I don't think both scum could be hiding amongst the current active players.

In post 167, mbaki wrote:Right now I am working from Xtoxm, Lolwagons, and Dannflor as townies. I have waffled mentally a lot between Podoboq and Mewtaph, I do not believe it is theater though so if one is scum and flips there's that at least. bristep123 and Doughboy have not posted that I remember since I became involved in the game.

In post 213, mbaki wrote:Dannflor, Lolwagons, and mbaki is the town core I am working with.

What happened between these two posts? Why did you read Xtoxm as town initially and why did you remove him from your working town list in favor of yourself despite Xtoxm not posting at all between that change. What changed your mind?

Because the only thing I can see that changed is the direction of the game towards people being willing to vote for/pressure that slot.

Damn might have been wrong on one of my town reads.

Danny can have the slot.

ugh. i just cant get into this game

Well give it effort or replace out there’s only nine of us