Merchant's Daughter [Endgame]

[DoubtingThomas]

i mean you played bad in both games i played iwth u but i dont think i ever said u were bad lol

no u

both games i initiated on scum

then death thunder domed villas

i mean i dont blame you for the loss, but you made it hard to read 'the scums you've found' because we were all too preoccupied with villa on villa violence

[DoubtingThomas]

in both cases i ended up on villas because said villas made it impossible for me to do anything else when my primary scumreasd were wolves

i dont care who started it. the result was a thunderdome between you and another townie. that made it difficult for me to read and play "well" (opposite of "bad") because it had a similar effect as to when "villas made it impossible for you to do anything else"

the thread became a mess

i could have played better, sure, by voting correctly, but the shitfest didn't help

[DoubtingThomas]

my strongest qualities are not reading, it's definitely presenting towniness tho

lol what

sorry not everyone can find as many scums as you do

[DoubtingThomas]

my strongest qualities are not reading, it's definitely presenting towniness tho

lol what

sorry not everyone can find as many scums as you do

no I mean you said ur strongest quality was not reading. Do you mean something else by that then my knee jerk thought of "I don't read"

reading as reading ppl's alignment correctly.

like i dont find the most scums most accurately, but scums can't lynch me

[DoubtingThomas]

I'm not pairing with DT unless he explains what makes him consider himself strong as town.

I am good at this game

It's not as important now as I'm not trying to pre-screen you, but examples?

Ok so I need to prove why I think I am good at this game?

I mean my reads have steadily improved game after game. I am getting better at finding wolves

I have mislynch rate of about like 5% in all games in my entire career as either alignment

Idk what I can say

I guess I'll take your word for it at this point but that also puts a Burden of Proficiency on you and getting me wrong doesn't help that, though I guess I can laud your efforts to reach out to change things.

i mean even if i suck ass i am not gonna say, "hey i suck at this game so when you get into a PT with me I am gonna suck so bad and bring our couple down "

presenting confidence, even if it may be a little undeserved, is important in a game of mafia with online strangers, imo

[DoubtingThomas]

in both cases i ended up on villas because said villas made it impossible for me to do anything else when my primary scumreasd were wolves

i dont care who started it. the result was a thunderdome between you and another townie. that made it difficult for me to read and play "well" (opposite of "bad") because it had a similar effect as to when "villas made it impossible for you to do anything else"

the thread became a mess

i could have played better, sure, by voting correctly, but the shitfest didn't help

So what I'm seeing is: RC did the thing to you, that the initial TvT did to RC.

not sure if i am understanding this post correctly. but if you are saying what RC did in those two previous games he's doing here, no this is not even remotely close to the previous games

the previous games we had day phases where the game simply wouldn't progress without one or even both of RC+the other villa die

[DoubtingThomas]

doesnt mean i played bad in the games where the game became unreadable when said bad towns force 1v1s with you

[DoubtingThomas]

i mean having it as something you want, sure

but he's been more interested for example in pairing with someone who townreads him than on what his read is on them for example

and I see very little attempt to sort on any of the recent pages and his push for me to leave dance was gross so

There’s no reason for either you or Ank to leave. I’m glad both of you finally realized that.

I mean... if RC is dead we can sheep his reads until the end of the earth. If he's alive we can't do that.

is rc's town game that good?

[DoubtingThomas]

so what SS am I supposed to be policy lynched every game so that people can trust that I'm not deep wolfing? dunno how that's ever fair to me

play worse wolf games

[DoubtingThomas]

is rc's town game that good?

Often. It seems to me that usually when RC implodes as town, it's because he wrongly scumread someone and not because he wrongly townread someone.

From what people have said it seems like he carried the last dance game (where he was IC), as well.

that's a good point. i think his town reads have been accurate

[DoubtingThomas]

we are gonna get along so well

[DoubtingThomas]

pretty much my sole weakness as town is that I can't deal with being bad faith pushed and that happens to align very poorly with being a very good scum player and having people bad faith push me all over the place.

just ignore "bad faith pushes" unless you scum read them outside of that. focus on your other scum reads that was right. if you did that, i am sure we would have won

[DoubtingThomas]

i've learned to ignore it. i was very much like you too. but somehow i learned. i feel like my game has improved tenfold.

i cannot imagine when you learn the ability to do what i do

you would become true werewolf GOD, brother

[DoubtingThomas]

I'm not pairing with DT unless he explains what makes him consider himself strong as town.

I am good at this game

It's not as important now as I'm not trying to pre-screen you, but examples?

Ok so I need to prove why I think I am good at this game?

I mean my reads have steadily improved game after game. I am getting better at finding wolves

I have mislynch rate of about like 5% in all games in my entire career as either alignment

Idk what I can say

I guess I'll take your word for it at this point but that also puts a Burden of Proficiency on you and getting me wrong doesn't help that, though I guess I can laud your efforts to reach out to change things.

i mean even if i suck ass i am not gonna say, "hey i suck at this game so when you get into a PT with me I am gonna suck so bad and bring our couple down "

presenting confidence, even if it may be a little undeserved, is important in a game of mafia with online strangers, imo

Understandable. Though your response after my changing tune tells me you actually believe your hype at least a little.

I absolutely do know I hype myself up. I do it on purpose. People who 'coached' me before pointed that out to me and told me countless times to be "less confident" with my reads

I kinda like this trait. I am actually pretty reserved in real life. I like the fact that I can be a different me in mafia, and I like to swing it around when I can.

[DoubtingThomas]

Well, a yolobomb would require two scum to out themselves, so we'd still be in a good spot after it happened.

what's yolobomb?

i also agree that gamma should be paried. How many coins does she have? Also there are 3? gentlemen left? 2? I am not sure if 3, 4 people dying pre-vote stage is a good idea.

I scum read gamma, but she can always be lynched in the future. also wouldnt mind her spewing if she were a wolf in the voting stages

[DoubtingThomas]

so how does the voting work?

there's 1-8 coins so maj is just 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8 = 36, 19/36 votes? is that how it works

SS, did you out how many coins you had

[DoubtingThomas]

i think playing the game entirely around town!RC's reads is kinda dumb no matter how good of a player they are

[DoubtingThomas]

I mean, there's no chance of scum-Vedith going out in a blaze of glory because the lynch threshold will be 9.

Gamma's pair definitely gets lynched in second dance, probably first, but by that point we're out of yolobomb territory.

I don't understand ur point if u think they get lynched either way and u somehow think them getting lynched later is less of a yolobomb than during the first dance exactly? I am confused on what is going through ur mind, what am i missing?

I'm talking about if Vedith is scum and, knowing that town would win through PoE otherwise, hammers a widely townread pair like Moment/Brie. That's a lynch on a pair that otherwise would never have been lynched, which is a huge blow to town.

you know I could leave the dance as soon as I see one vote down to not even give vedith the chance, right?

leave the dance means killing urself?

[DoubtingThomas]

so how does the voting work?

there's 1-8 coins so maj is just 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8 = 36, 19/36 votes? is that how it works

SS, did you out how many coins you had

No it's based on living numbers. So with 14 alive its 8 to lynch meaning Vedith!scum can just kill a pair.

wtf thats cray

[DoubtingThomas]

SS, did you out how many coins you had

1. You're a poor boi

At least I know you're not a gold digger though

it takes 9 votes so 2 people would be scumclaiming in that process

Exactly. This is why I want Gamma to pair.

i regret my partner choice

[DoubtingThomas]

fire. do you have reads list?

I reckon you are not too confident of your vedith town read anymore?

[DoubtingThomas]

i personally think killing 3 players, 3 potential townies is a dumb idea no matter how much you scum read that person, especially in pre-voting stage

do you catch what i am trying to say?

[DoubtingThomas]

i have a town read on allo before, although i havent revisited that in a while

dont remember pvt that well, although i thought his daftness with regards to his push on dann? i think was >rand town

[DoubtingThomas]

fire. do you have reads list?

I reckon you are not too confident of your vedith town read anymore?

[DoubtingThomas]

But if Gamma doesn't pair, you don't get a chance to get rid of it. Vedith just swoops in with VOTE: Moment and it's lights out.

or here is a plausible alternative.
as soon as dance starts I leave before vedith posts because I am more active and can do that before he does anything.

but I would be lying if I said I don't want to hear him out in the PT first before I do anything but if gamma doesn't pair that is likely what i am gonna do.

why did you pair up with him if you are just gonna do this

also what does gamma pairing exactly uh change this premise that vedith is scum who might yolobomb?

[DoubtingThomas]

But if Gamma doesn't pair, you don't get a chance to get rid of it. Vedith just swoops in with VOTE: Moment and it's lights out.

or here is a plausible alternative.
as soon as dance starts I leave before vedith posts because I am more active and can do that before he does anything.

but I would be lying if I said I don't want to hear him out in the PT first before I do anything but if gamma doesn't pair that is likely what i am gonna do.

why did you pair up with him if you are just gonna do this

also what does gamma pairing exactly uh change this premise that vedith is scum who might yolobomb?

I love to leave my lovers is why

help me understand your thought porcessplease i already dont get the mechanics too well

[DoubtingThomas]

SS, do you have a coherent list of where everyone stands?

I shamelessly admit I have read maybe ~10% of the thread. I know that's really poor of me, but I plan to read a lot more/go back ISO pending on flips. Would like to underestand where you stand for each people

[DoubtingThomas]

did i call you scum? i didn't make any commentary on your alignment.

I mean, what you described in 4232 isn't something that I (or most people) would ever do as scum, so you implied it. If you don't think I'm scum, then that's good, but don't assume that I might be town and still have an ulterior motive beyond what's stated, because I don't like to manipulate people for no reason.

SS, do you have a coherent list of where everyone stands?

I kinda feel like I should wait for the PT to answer this, no? That's exactly what we should be using it for...

We can't wait for PT, sure.

I am just a pretty transparent person so I tend to sometimes go overboard and explain/talk about my reads out loud in the thread. sometimes to help my ownself understand what I am exactly thinking about. If you want to wait for PT, we can.

I also fear, however, that I might accidentally out a lot of the information in the real thread about things we discussed? so you might want to make it clear to me on what you don't want me to talk about tho

i also think when we are pushing scums/explain our town reads, the stuff i am asking you right now ought to be spoiled in the main thread

[DoubtingThomas]

did i call you scum? i didn't make any commentary on your alignment.

I mean, what you described in 4232 isn't something that I (or most people) would ever do as scum, so you implied it. If you don't think I'm scum, then that's good, but don't assume that I might be town and still have an ulterior motive beyond what's stated, because I don't like to manipulate people for no reason.

SS, do you have a coherent list of where everyone stands?

I kinda feel like I should wait for the PT to answer this, no? That's exactly what we should be using it for...

We can't wait for PT, sure.

I am just a pretty transparent person so I tend to sometimes go overboard and explain/talk about my reads out loud in the thread. sometimes to help my ownself understand what I am exactly thinking about. If you want to wait for PT, we can.

I also fear, however, that I might accidentally out a lot of the information in the real thread about things we discussed? so you might want to make it clear to me on what you don't want me to talk about tho

i also think when we are pushing scums/explain our town reads, the stuff i am asking you right now ought to be spoiled in the main thread

we can*

not we can't. typo

[DoubtingThomas]

just as an example, my last two times playing with RC before this game were

a. correctly locktowning him within 10-20 pages
b. not having really any read of him in the time he was in the game; his successor was a townread until the slot was confscummed though

I assume b is Lynch the Wolves

pvt asked you out. you dont want to comment on it?

i also think pvt just popping in to ask then popping out is nagl

[DoubtingThomas]

Point is, RC is more valuable alive than dead

even when he's a wolf? :doge:

[DoubtingThomas]

Formal dance invitation to teh Gamma

Acknowledging I have seen this. Want to talk a little first though. Pvt, I'm already town reading you (though the read was formed a while a go so it could go with review), so I want to hear some thoughts from you about reads and/or the gamestate.
Btw I did some background checking and Allo does post in the early morning (my time), which means he could respond in time. But I would rather stay up late than get up early so Urist is looking like my choice.

oh nvm

[DoubtingThomas]

RC, don't tell me you are going to thunderdome Something_Smart this game

[DoubtingThomas]

Also, Ss, let's drop it for now and wait for after pre-dance

[DoubtingThomas]

Point is, RC is more valuable alive than dead

even when he's a wolf? :doge:

When he's a wolf you can't just go and say "we will trust RC's reads after he flips", what's the point of playing with a good player if you won't try to improve to get on his level. So yes, if he's wolf, you git gud and lynch him without a shitty excuse for lynching him. Fair and square. I read the last iteration of Red Flag (NSG modding) and the first scum I caught was RC. It's not impossible, so if you're so afraid of playing with scum!RC, don't play with RC at all.

I've never played with scum!Rc yet, but have more or less correctly town read him in most situations despite being in thunderdome (lynched him when his lynch was basically set and nobody wanted to post until lynch happened)

don't give me this shit please

[DoubtingThomas]

how do i use mafia sepid? or mafia silver

[DoubtingThomas]

http://www.hahgay.com

[DoubtingThomas]

aw man RC died

at least I wont tinfoil him huh

[DoubtingThomas]

That does help me with not having to sort my partner, now I can just jam out reads

bad post is bad

[DoubtingThomas]

sup

[DoubtingThomas]

Probably need to expand on why 4131 pings me a bit more.

Metaing DT is not super useful because his posts this game are much more snippy and succinct than either his town or scum games. I think, as either alignment, he has frequently been really lost and needed real time interaction to get a grip on the game. However *there is a chance that him being lost might be SI* and that he'd have more of an agenda as town.

The types of posts that really stand out to me in DT's scum games are posts like these:

Spoiler:

"IC_Question": What if scum plays exactly as they would if they were town? Wouldn't it be impossible to catch them?

I wouldn't say impossible. At the end of the game there's always a question of why someone is there. Night Kills generally aim for people who are either super Towny, an obvious PR or sometimes just someone who is too close to solving the game.

That being said, it can be very hard to catch a skilled scum player who has a scum range which closely emulates their town. If someone gets that reputation, people will probably just start lynching that individual before end game to be safe

It is not impossible because they have exactly different players they need to lynch to win

For example if I am in a game of 13 players, there are usually 3 scums.

Say I am town. My goal is to find 3 scums out of the 12 players, or 9 towns out of the 12 players (excluding myself)

Say I am scum. My goal is to mislynch the other 10 players (excluding myself and two teammates, total of 3 mafias in a 13 player game)

In the process, maybe I can also bus my other two teammates for some credit, but in the end I have to kill at least 7 town players as scum (because 3 towns - 3 scums is a parity win condition for scum so i need to at LEAST kill 7 players), whereas as town, I have to find and kill other 3 scum players, while in the process towns will be night killed and potentially be lynched, but I can theoretically win the game after only 5 players have died (by lynching all 3 scums back to back to back meanwhile during the nights 2 towns are being night killed)

I know that explanation kinda sucked, but that is basically the core reason.

Don't forget, during the process of the game, the logic/reasoning for one person to use for scum reading a town as a town and wolf and also scum reading a scum/bussing a scum as a town/wolf will have differences, inherently

@DoubtingThomas

Assuming you were another player in the game, would you scumread Doubtingthomas?

Would be nice if you addressed this:

Doubting Thomas is asking very general questions rather than pointed ones, that seems like being active lurking. I mean, there is a difference between asking someone what they think of the gamestate and what they think of a specific slot or a specific post. I feel like we are at the point where the questions should be specific rather than general. The questions just seem too easy.

Also, how about you? What are your thoughts on the game so far? What do you think of Roo and Volxen in particular?

I am going to be very honest with you, and this will probably seem very egotistical/over-confident and you will probably hate it and maybe use those personal feelings to scum read me but whatever

I am also going to be telling you the 100% truth and giving you this answer pretending I am another player who is completely aware of how DoubtingThomas works (well, because I am DoubtingThomas)

No, I won't for several reasons

Well, first, what brass has pointed out is very true. Asking 'general' question is an easy way for scums to make themselves

LOOK

like they are trying to solve. Brass makes an extremely good point that such questions are often >rand wolf for people, especially newer players.

He mentions also that asking "pin pointed" questions are beter than general questions. This is true. However, what he forgets is that good wolves will do townie things. Bad towns will do scummy things.

I am a pretty good wolf. Compared to my town game, I am a really good wolf. I have a pretty good win record as wolf (6-2? ish) and I have almost never been mislynched as a wolf (although I have been n1 vigged by towns two times by people who know my meta well)

The point brass is making is pretty good, and can generally be considered as kind of a "rule of thumb" especially in a newbie game like this one

But at the same time, if werewolf games were that easy, we won't have any good players right? Towns have done really dumb/anti-town things all the time. To the point where it is better for some of them to just kinda be policy lynched for being so bad.

I think I am going nowhere this pep talk. I have an issue always just rambling and talking abotu random shit that is unnecessary and that's why I don't do well in my job interviews.

Anyways, the point being, what Brass said is true to some extent. But it is not a good tell to one of the more experienced players.

Now let's go back to what I personally think about DT based on what I know.

DT has 9000 posts in a different website called Mafia Universe where he created the account mid-July of 2018. On record, he has about ~55 games played. A lot of them are turbos (which are very short 18min/6min mini games) and loves to play on 12hours/12hours phases or at the most 36/12hours phases. He subbed out of a lot of games on mafia scum when he joined a bunch couple months ago because the week long phases just was too much/boring for DT who likes to post a shitton

Given that, I think DT's overall performance here has been underwhelming for sure. However, I also know that DT

LOVES

to wolf. He loves to town too, but loves to wolf a lot more. He is also a far better wolf than town. What Brass has commented which is definitely lackluster of DT is never really a wolf tell for him. Rather, personally, I think it makes DT >rand town because he will high post and generate content as both alignment, quite frankly, but he will never be caught as a wolf for not really doing anything or trying to act fakely townie

DT will do what he does as town as a wolf. The questions he asks, the comments he make, the shitposts he writes, and the pushes he commits always come from the fact that he truly

BELIEVES

in (as a town) that or KNOWS THAT HE WILL BELIEVE it if he were town (as a wolf)

DT not posting any reads/pushes at the moment is slightly ping-y, but I am a little confused because he would have no problem just pushing people who are scummy or even if they are not scummy to see their reaction. His low content is also negative for town so I think he should start stepping his game up and start posting a lot more to carry town to the win.

Right now, I personally would list DT at "very slight scum lean" for low efforting, but secretly know that that is non alignment indicative for him and is only putting him at scum lean to see his reaction. He is a very omgus-y type of a player so that will generate reaction frmo him which will help you learn his alignment

Tl;dr If I am not DT but I know DT's meta and history, I would put him at very slight scum lean to generate reaction to help myself understand his alignment a little more while keeping in mind he is actually null. I would be slightly annoyed that he is not playing to his usual self because no matter what that is that is negative for town and hope that he will start playing. As of now, he isn't one of my main scum suspects tbh

And there isn't some post here that's just like "Oh yeah, that's a scum post for DT", however thinking of these posts, and DT's tendency to kinda of narrate what 'scum would do' much more as scum than as town, and also talk about his own qualities and scum play, 4131 was a minor ping for me.

It also makes me put more scrutiny on posts like:

Spoiler:

I need to see and engage with you more

Doubting

I'm not getting your reads on

Dr. W

and

Allo

? Both people I'm suspecting at the moment?

Also I'm still confident with

Nancy

being town.

Do you have any questions for me?

i think nancy is townish too for her read on RC

i liked allo's tone

i like W's tone

it's just gut tone read. they seem to have "i dont care about what others think" and expresses opinion in a bold way

of course, scums also try to manipulate this kinda tone, but the genuinity is different slightly, imo, when they are scum and town

i mean i can answer ur questions if u have specific ones. these are where my reads came from in general tho

i also partly dont like explaining every single small things that come to my mind because

1) chances are they are wrong
2) chances are my own opinion of them change later on
3) they clog up the thread unnecessarily we honestly don't need every single detail of thoughts that I have

now, if you accept my love reqeust and we get a lovers chat, i can, of course, explain all the little things you want

Remember, this is the *main reason* I was tempted to consider a townread on DT, but actually the second half of the post is at least in the neighborhood of the sort of meta-theorizing rambling that DT does a lot as scum. This was his towniest post, and after reading his scum games, it almost pings me. So I feel like there's very few posts from DT right now where I can point to it and say, "Damn, DT is obvtown, we shouldn't lynch here."

Doesn't make him obvscum. I say this because I know Taly still wants PB first and I'm willing to hear her out there.

I am looking at Krazy's meta case on me as S_S pointed it out on PT

Krazy, first of all, I really like this post.

I disagree with the content itself, but the way you approached my meta, the way you wrote this post, and the effort level you put in seems incredibly townie and feels like comes from a very townie motive/mindset. i love it. i high town read taly as well. i dont think i am ever lynching you and taly

I think it's so good that I feel obligated to defend myself/talk to you who I now think is town so that you don't needlessly tunnel me.

I think this could seem as 'overdefensive' to you and might even make you scum read me harder, but i have to say what i have to say in a geunine attempt in order to get this game going, imo.

A lot of the games you pulled me are from August 2018. Now, you might think that's only 6 months, but it's simply a very different representation of my game.

I started playing forum mafia altogether on July 2018. So by August 2018, I probably had maximum of like 5 games under my belt.

The more recent games you pulled with Brassherald in (I think that's the only game you pulled from recent timeline?) is a fair game.

But the difference between the way I approach the game of mafia on August 2018 and now? Immense. Now I think I played about 100 games on Mafia Universe only. The amount of new experience I've gotten literally changes the way I even think about the game. I will definitely be approaching the game differently and simply just talking in a different tone. I strongly suggest you don't use games from August 2018 to 'meta' read me. It doesn't apply to my meta, simple.

If you really want my town meta, you are more than welcome to come to MafiaUniverse and check my post history. I have couple town games there that you might like.

I love the effort you put in reading/pulling links from those games tho. I think the way you talk about them is townie.

I like the way you approached my scum meta based on a game that's more recent. It's a really good attempt. I don't see a scum motive in the way you treated my scum meta to find similarities to my posts here.

However, you talking about me referring to my own game as slightly SI is just factually wrong. I do that as town. I mean I consider myself a pretty strong player. There is no reason for me to only talk about certain things as either alignment. The truth is, I will be talking about my game in that sense both as town and as scum, but it's a fair game that you use that to scum read me because you only saw that kinda post when I am scum.

The game where I replaced in that's also recent. I play very differently there than where I played scum in the worst's game. The truth is, I signed up for multiple games at a time wihtout waiting to hear back from sign ups. I got into a scum game and I am a really fucking energetic scum. I love scumming so much so i start posting a lot. Like how I went full gibberish on brassherald when I scummed. In that game where I subbed in, I didn't expect/want to sub in. I was a townie and the game was so fucking weird. I was uninvested and low motivated. I posted like 1/10th of what I posted in my scum game.

I tried skimming your post and then re reading it because some of the points you were trying to make were quite unclear to me. I guess that's only natural becaues you are trying to meta read me when you haven't played a single game with me. When you are re-reading in an unbiased manner post game, compared to when you play in a game and interact with other players you have to solve their alignment for live, it will feel different.

I think I remember you saying me being lost is more scum indicative?

I know you probably won't trust this but, again, the fact is more people who know me on MU say I am more 'logical' in my posts when I scum. People shit on my town game because I "throw shits on the wall, hoping it sticks"

I have tried to improve and change up my town game and i have been doing pretty well about it, but the truth is, i am not "lost" because I am scum.

Do remember, I am a player who strongly wants to make sure I say stuff as both alignment. That is not to say I will be saying the exact same shit as either alignment every time. I would be playing more pro-wolf as wolf. But, when I talk 'about' a major topic, like my scum game or how I play the game, or whatever, I know I will be talking about that as both alignment. Don't think I am scum because of that.

Krazy, again, I think the post you made scum casing me itself is pretty god damn good. I would love to interact with you so you can get a better grasp of my alignment. I am happy to work with my town reads, so you can get to where I am. Feel free to pressure me or ask me questions where you see fit. My play is more than my previous game post history

[DoubtingThomas]

bout to take on the Thomas meta dive challenge 2k19 wish me luck boys and girls

tl;dr 1 of my wall post

meta dive challenging my posts from august is not worth it

[DoubtingThomas]

Those of you who are doing the DT meta challenges, I challenge you to read first 20 posts of me from this game and do the same

I am wondering how similar they are, tbh. how much I grew as a player

[DoubtingThomas]

DT meta challenges answer

Spoiler:

I quickly went back and checked/went from my memory but I think these are 99.9% correct

Game 1 - Town
Game 2 - Town
Game 3 - Town
Game 4 - Town
Game 5 - Scum, but it was multiball and I knew there was another scum faction

:shrug:

was interesting to do these myself, tbh

[DoubtingThomas]

gamme, do you have an opinion on krazy's meta case on me? as that seems to be a hot topic in the thread rn

[DoubtingThomas]

sup

[DoubtingThomas]

Two little things

DT, what's your read on SS rn? How are you feeling about your own pairing?

Second, for some reason I really dislike trying to read things on MU, like I don't know what it is about the aesthetic of the site but it bothers me the way posts are organized, even though obviously it's like, pretty similar to here

Sorry, just finished some insane marathon nonsense, pretty wiped right now, I will think about your wall up there in more detail tomorrow morning

I think SS has already been townie when they didn't immediately accept moment's invitation and the way they got mad at brie immediately accpeting the invitation.

Then they they approached rest of the intermission also seemed like he was genuinely interested in looking to solve people/look for a townie partner to accept to dance

although we haven't talked too much on PT, he is asking some critical thinking questions that would help them read me. it looks like they are trying to solve me. i mean. i don't think it's impossible for them to replicate this as scum to fool me/make me town read them, but i made a long reasoning to why i town read you, krazy, because of that meta case post on me. S_S was still unconvinced at my reasoning and saying that he doesn't think you are incapable of that as scum. i feel like as scum, S_S would focus on perhaps trying to pocket me more? But in the PT i am feeling they are trying to have a genuine discussion about the game so they can sort my alignment and come up with a consensus reads list as a lover

[DoubtingThomas]

sup

Re: Thomas's wall, I don't know yet.

I'm trying to get him to talk about that stuff a little more in the PT.

Why haven’t you posted yet in your PT?

because i didn't log onto mafia scum?

wtf lol

[DoubtingThomas]

I think I remember you saying me being lost is more scum indicative?

Yeah, based on

Spoiler:

how I feel about your play in game 5

I feel like you are more likely to ask people to give you direction as scum, and that's kinda like how I felt you played the end of pre-dance, particularly irt my slot

you seem more strong-willed as town, although as you said, those games are not your most recent play I guess

no i am more strong-willed as scum imo

[DoubtingThomas]

@DT, Brie, who are you currently scumreading?

i havent ever town read gamma

i have taly, krazy at pretty townie

dr worm i kinda tossed at town pile for liking his troll ass vibe. prob should reevalute soon. i also thought pink ball's tone was townie. i haven't scum read that for a while, but should reevalute. i am liking S_S, and i am not a fan of the way thebrie accepted moment's invitiation. i didn't like her excuse after intermission of how "she wasn't sure she can be back so she hastily accepted that" i mean.. that sounds like she was very preoccupied with surviving, which is odd because there are more gents so chances are she would always have an invitation even if S_S takes moment away from her. maybe she wanted moment to not be paired with S_S on purpose? this is something i should look at despite reading her tone pretty high town in intermission.

Nancy shold be reevaluated since i havent read your post in a while. i dont like the way you questioned me 'not posting in PT' like it was pretty clear i havent been on in the meantime and just posted here so what was the point of that question?

Never had a strong opinion on Dann, moment


who is left. vedith and firebringer? vedith can be scum although i liked the way firebringer threatened to leave the dance in case vedith votes with his high number of coins and the way she reacted to me asking her a question about it

[DoubtingThomas]

@DT, Brie, who are you currently scumreading?

Leaning towards scum on Moment, but he's not giving me anything to read. Conflicted on Pink Ball.

I went and did meta on Gamma. Her game is quite similar as town and scum, as town she's got more questions that force others to get involved and are really challenging, as a little less "Explain this" and sort of mechanical stuff, or comments on how people are playing. But it's close, and I can't tell which side this falls on. Maybe a tiny bit towards the scum side, but not enough to say anything solid. It's not outside her town range.

why are you leaning towards scum on moment if he didn't give you anything to read?

why did you only do meta on gamma?

[DoubtingThomas]

I originally gave DT a town read in #3418, which reading back, I believe are pretty weak reasons. The posts I outline in DT's ISO that I think are representative of towny thought processes... aren't that impressive? I may have too hastily lumped DT into my sudden strong PvT town read just due to DT's explanation in #3216 where he lowkey supported a PvT town. I'm not sure if that's something scum wouldn't point out that. The same goes for his other "towny" talking points.

#1265Gets referenced a lot when explaining town reads on the DT slot... and I don't get it? It's a bunch of gut/tone reads and then justification for not having to explain those.

i also partly dont like explaining every single small things that come to my mind because

1) chances are they are wrong
2) chances are my own opinion of them change later on
3) they clog up the thread unnecessarily we honestly don't need every single detail of thoughts that I have

now, if you accept my love reqeust and we get a lovers chat, i can, of course, explain all the little things you want

This actually pings me quite a bit. Sure, you can be like "scum would never wanna be this brazen and admit this," but I don't think that's a strong enough argument.

1) Town shouldn't care about being wrong. Rather, they shouldn't care about that potential making them look suspicious. Scum care if they're caught being wrong and the associatives look bad for them.
2) Opinion changes are natural and one of the hardest things in the game for scum to fake with authenticity.
3) Sure... But there's a difference between clogging up the thread unnecessarily with every single detail and just saying "x is town" and "x is scum" off of pure gut and tone reads.

My problem with DT is that the things people point to when they say he looks towny are fairly lazy and not proactive. His entire ISO is waiting for people to come to him and interact with him. Very rarely does he take the initiative in pressuring people and it doesn't look like he's trying to proactively solve the game. There's a lot of "engage with me," but not a lot of engaging that's actually solving.

Like, I actually am calling you a flat out liar about you claiming to come on at the same time as me.

how the fuck am i a liar?

i never fucking lie as either alignment

like as scum i would definitely scum read you for things i would scum read as town to begin with so i dont understand what you mean by calling me a liar lol

Stuff like this also makes me doubt the strength of town reads on him. I think people tend to like him for how genuine his reads seem, but their surface level enough that I don't see why it couldn't just as easily be faked by scum.

Look at his progression in the pre-dance too:

Spoiler:

i think i am at the point where i'd rather just out in pre dance if i dont get brie maybe

This pings me. Specifically because it's so noncommittal. RC and Ank were obv!town because it was blatantly obvious they both believed the other was scum and was willing to leave the dance to take the other one out. Here, DT suggests he might just stay out of the pre-dance since he scum reads both Gamma and SS. Hey! That might actually be good for town and it's obviously a town motivated thing to do. Except he's never gonna actually do this, so what's the point in saying this?

taly i am at the point where i can sheep you shamelessly


who should i pair up with

and who are your scum reads

can we like start talking about parnters

@everyone who doesnt have a partner

but that means i need an actual town partner

who wants to partner up with me :/

Gamma, are you town?

stop fucking fighting over nothing when your boi doesnt even have a partner and is about to die

You, Pvt, Allo, Gamma, me.

I'm annoyed Brie took Moment's invitation without waiting for him to okay it, but I feel like the fact that I waited and Brie didn't should make me clearly town.

I like this post

gamma, if ss doesn't accept my shit and take whoever you want, will you take me to da dance

I just don't like the progression from "maybe I should just sit out" to looking for reasons to town read one of SS or Gamma. This is the kind of desperation I don't like. I don't think it's genuine trying to figure out who among the last ladies is scummier or townies, it's just looking for reasons to town read one of them so he can look fine going to the dance with them.

I'm also concerned that DT isn't actually pushing anyone. Like SS/DT is probably gonna be the first or second lynch and yet... His big most recent wall post is just defending himself from Krazy's meta case. He isn't offering up alternatives, and idk what his scum reads even are atm. Gamma?

@Thomas,

which pair is your preferred first lynch? And why haven't you made any efforts to push there? What are your reads rnow? Is SS strong town? Have you guys interacted in your PT at all?

@SS,

I think you're pretty strongly town. What is your read on DT? Also, I know you're struggling because your scum reads are all strongly town read by someone. But who is your first lynch ideally if you had complete control? Me and Nancy? What if we both flipped town?

I really really don't think we should be lynching Moment/Brie first. I have Brie as pretty strongly town (something I should probably elaborate on when I have mroe sleep tomorrow) and while I don't have a good read on Moment, I really think the amount RC + Ank pushed for Moment!town + the fact Moment hasn't even posted yet means lynching there is a terrible idea. Obviously, inactivity is harmful either way, but we might be fucking up a really strong T/T pairing as Ank and RC thought without even letting Moment get her thoughts in. I feel like maybe scum saw Moment/Brie as a threat pre-dance and are now trying to quickly dispatch of them.

There's also the fact that the reads there feel... Pretty lackluster? Nancy can't elaborate on her Brie read, Gamma's scum reading Moment for... not answering some question 30 pages ago. I forget what else. It's just scaring me how this pairing is the first being pushed after RC and Ank died. At the very least, it shouldn't be the first flip imo.

VOTE: DT

This post is a good look for Dann. I think confidently revisitng your previously town read and then analyzing it in a well-mannered and structured way is a good look. the fact that he points out my 'progression' is also a good look. i kinda didn't care about the game because i always prefer 12/12 phaes or maximum 36/12 phases and i always kinda get bored when a day phase lasts like a week or so. which is the case for like all the games here. that's why i haven't been playing here a lot. thought the set up was interesting here and i saw people i knew from MU so i joined. then i regretted it cuz i kinda got bored after a while, so i said "eh idc just kill me"

but then i innately hate losing/letting my alignment down just so i can be a bitch so then i stepped my game up to live as the best as i can. the progression is not shown because it was just an OOG reason for my mindset to have changed there :/

i want gamma dead. maybe brie. gonna read more

[DoubtingThomas]

Thomas, when you're scum with daytalk, how well do you usually keep up with what's happening in the scum PT?

believe me when i say this it's facts. i don't check PT if i don't check main game thread. i don't check main game thread if I am not logged in.

In one of the newbie games where i lived until f3, the game was decided to be compromised under host discretion because one of the other town members asked the host a question that spewed mafia already submitted his nk when i haven't logged on since long before that day phase ended

i just dont log on often on mafia universe

[DoubtingThomas]

mods keep prodding me like shit

i bet if we tally up who gets the most prods from a mod, i'd win that award

[DoubtingThomas]

Thomas, when you're scum with daytalk, how well do you usually keep up with what's happening in the scum PT?

believe me when i say this it's facts. i don't check PT if i don't check main game thread. i don't check main game thread if I am not logged in.

In one of the newbie games where i lived until f3, the game was decided to be compromised under host discretion because one of the other town members asked the host a question that spewed mafia already submitted his nk when i haven't logged on since long before that day phase ended

i just dont log on often on mafia

scum

[DoubtingThomas]

There's a few things that give me a scummy feel, but overall... I've not gotten her sorted out. i just know I'm not putting her solidly in as town.

what are these few things you feel pink ball has done that is scummy?

does this mean you put other players at solid town?

[DoubtingThomas]

I originally gave DT a town read in #3418, which reading back, I believe are pretty weak reasons. The posts I outline in DT's ISO that I think are representative of towny thought processes... aren't that impressive? I may have too hastily lumped DT into my sudden strong PvT town read just due to DT's explanation in #3216 where he lowkey supported a PvT town. I'm not sure if that's something scum wouldn't point out that. The same goes for his other "towny" talking points.

#1265Gets referenced a lot when explaining town reads on the DT slot... and I don't get it? It's a bunch of gut/tone reads and then justification for not having to explain those.

i also partly dont like explaining every single small things that come to my mind because

1) chances are they are wrong
2) chances are my own opinion of them change later on
3) they clog up the thread unnecessarily we honestly don't need every single detail of thoughts that I have

now, if you accept my love reqeust and we get a lovers chat, i can, of course, explain all the little things you want

This actually pings me quite a bit. Sure, you can be like "scum would never wanna be this brazen and admit this," but I don't think that's a strong enough argument.

1) Town shouldn't care about being wrong. Rather, they shouldn't care about that potential making them look suspicious. Scum care if they're caught being wrong and the associatives look bad for them.
2) Opinion changes are natural and one of the hardest things in the game for scum to fake with authenticity.
3) Sure... But there's a difference between clogging up the thread unnecessarily with every single detail and just saying "x is town" and "x is scum" off of pure gut and tone reads.

My problem with DT is that the things people point to when they say he looks towny are fairly lazy and not proactive. His entire ISO is waiting for people to come to him and interact with him. Very rarely does he take the initiative in pressuring people and it doesn't look like he's trying to proactively solve the game. There's a lot of "engage with me," but not a lot of engaging that's actually solving.

Like, I actually am calling you a flat out liar about you claiming to come on at the same time as me.

how the fuck am i a liar?

i never fucking lie as either alignment

like as scum i would definitely scum read you for things i would scum read as town to begin with so i dont understand what you mean by calling me a liar lol

Stuff like this also makes me doubt the strength of town reads on him. I think people tend to like him for how genuine his reads seem, but their surface level enough that I don't see why it couldn't just as easily be faked by scum.

Look at his progression in the pre-dance too:

Spoiler:

i think i am at the point where i'd rather just out in pre dance if i dont get brie maybe

This pings me. Specifically because it's so noncommittal. RC and Ank were obv!town because it was blatantly obvious they both believed the other was scum and was willing to leave the dance to take the other one out. Here, DT suggests he might just stay out of the pre-dance since he scum reads both Gamma and SS. Hey! That might actually be good for town and it's obviously a town motivated thing to do. Except he's never gonna actually do this, so what's the point in saying this?

taly i am at the point where i can sheep you shamelessly


who should i pair up with

and who are your scum reads

can we like start talking about parnters

@everyone who doesnt have a partner

but that means i need an actual town partner

who wants to partner up with me :/

Gamma, are you town?

stop fucking fighting over nothing when your boi doesnt even have a partner and is about to die

You, Pvt, Allo, Gamma, me.

I'm annoyed Brie took Moment's invitation without waiting for him to okay it, but I feel like the fact that I waited and Brie didn't should make me clearly town.

I like this post

gamma, if ss doesn't accept my shit and take whoever you want, will you take me to da dance

I just don't like the progression from "maybe I should just sit out" to looking for reasons to town read one of SS or Gamma. This is the kind of desperation I don't like. I don't think it's genuine trying to figure out who among the last ladies is scummier or townies, it's just looking for reasons to town read one of them so he can look fine going to the dance with them.

I'm also concerned that DT isn't actually pushing anyone. Like SS/DT is probably gonna be the first or second lynch and yet... His big most recent wall post is just defending himself from Krazy's meta case. He isn't offering up alternatives, and idk what his scum reads even are atm. Gamma?

@Thomas,

which pair is your preferred first lynch? And why haven't you made any efforts to push there? What are your reads rnow? Is SS strong town? Have you guys interacted in your PT at all?

@SS,

I think you're pretty strongly town. What is your read on DT? Also, I know you're struggling because your scum reads are all strongly town read by someone. But who is your first lynch ideally if you had complete control? Me and Nancy? What if we both flipped town?

I really really don't think we should be lynching Moment/Brie first. I have Brie as pretty strongly town (something I should probably elaborate on when I have mroe sleep tomorrow) and while I don't have a good read on Moment, I really think the amount RC + Ank pushed for Moment!town + the fact Moment hasn't even posted yet means lynching there is a terrible idea. Obviously, inactivity is harmful either way, but we might be fucking up a really strong T/T pairing as Ank and RC thought without even letting Moment get her thoughts in. I feel like maybe scum saw Moment/Brie as a threat pre-dance and are now trying to quickly dispatch of them.

There's also the fact that the reads there feel... Pretty lackluster?

Nancy can't elaborate on her Brie read

, Gamma's scum reading Moment for... not answering some question 30 pages ago. I forget what else. It's just scaring me how this pairing is the first being pushed after RC and Ank died. At the very least, it shouldn't be the first flip imo.

VOTE: DT

Please don’t lump me in with any of this. Moment’s absence is definitely hurting the game, we can’t ignore that fact. There is only a little over 5 days left! And no, I can’t elaborate on Brie, because as I already told you in our PT, I don’t want to get into trouble. I’m kind of upset that you seem to have jumped to the wrong conclusion. Sure, I absolutely could elaborate on it but I don’t know how to do that without being in violation of site rules. Yes, it’s extremely frustrating but not wanting to risk a ban is /= to lacking reasons.

Whenever I say in any game ever, that I can’t elaborate or discuss anything, that is ALWAYS what I mean

. Krazy, I think was bordering on doing something similar with you and since I also couldn’t comment on that, for similar reasons, I tried to nip it in the bud, because explaining it, is against the rules not just on here but on any mafia site. Capiche? God!

scummy overreaction, tbh

[DoubtingThomas]

At any rate, I’m hardtownreading Dann for 4610. I have good reason to think that this kind of passion he’s showing here about being leery of disregarding RC reads and being concerned about possibly mislynching moment/Brie never comes from scum!Dann. Do you agree @Krazy?

do you town read dann for anything frmo PT?

[DoubtingThomas]

i am thinking you mentioning dann's specific post 4610 to town read him is odd because you have a PT with him

[DoubtingThomas]

S_S

, can you explain your scumreads?

I glimpsed at

DT's

ISO as of the last several pages worth of his posts since my attention has been on other players.

But here's a few things I'm wondering about.

also i town read RC. I think RC's town ability is considerably good. i have no meta of you nor gamma. iirc, he hard town read you and said gamma was being worthless.

i am also ok sheeping that sentiment.

even if RC is wolf, i think he treats you and gamma like that if you are town. i really liked the way RC favored you over thebrie. tonally felt like a genuine town read, or something i dont know if wolves wanna do over their wolf packmate!gamma

Point is, RC is more valuable alive than dead

even when he's a wolf? :doge:

Why are you stating

RC

is a townread but several pages later you bring up the opportunity that he's a wolf?

I don't feel good that

S_S

is placing

RC's

reads higher than his own and you haven't pushed against that - all the while you're giving a mixed read on

RC

and his reads himself.

That does help me with not having to sort my partner, now I can just jam out reads

bad post is bad

Urist

is an IC. Why does this make

Gamma

less towny or not approaching the game effectively? He's asserting his other reads as he should.

These inconsistencies don't feel genuine. I'm leaning to

DT+S_S

contain scum somewhere.

As for

PB+Dr. W

, their interaction doesn't really feel town/town to me much yet? Based on what I'm hearing from the PT. But I'm not sure if that's where I'm thinking the first lynched pair should be at the moment.

Uhm, Taly, this question is not real. I town read someone doesn't ensure that they are town. I am always wary that someone hard I townread can be a wolf at any point in the game.

Also, you are not reading my posts correctly. I didn't say Urist being an IC makes Gamma less townie. Never mentioned that anywhere and neither does that post by me imply that. I said that post is bad because Gamma is making a scummy commentary type of post. Everyone can see that Urist is an IC and that Gamma doesn't need to sort him. But Gamma went on to say that? It just looks awkward and pointless. Gamma doesn't seem like they really cared about Urist being town or not?

If I got an IC message saying S_S is town I would be like pretty fucking happy now that I can work with a confirmed town in PT?

At the same time, the post itself is just really subpar and pointless. I was pointing that out.

[DoubtingThomas]

This is difficult. Gut reads I'm just gonna go 2, 3, 5 as town and 1 and 4 as scum

Am I the only one who found this incomprehensible?

THEBREAD is NOT reading!!

Yeah it does seen like she skipped my walls

you don't want to pressure thebrie for ignoring your post which has been a topic in the thread for several posts now?

either way that is anti town

[DoubtingThomas]

Also I will say if Dannflor flips scum he just spewed me and Thomas town really hard.

why?

[DoubtingThomas]

Spoiler:

I originally gave DT a town read in #3418, which reading back, I believe are pretty weak reasons. The posts I outline in DT's ISO that I think are representative of towny thought processes... aren't that impressive? I may have too hastily lumped DT into my sudden strong PvT town read just due to DT's explanation in #3216 where he lowkey supported a PvT town. I'm not sure if that's something scum wouldn't point out that. The same goes for his other "towny" talking points.

#1265Gets referenced a lot when explaining town reads on the DT slot... and I don't get it? It's a bunch of gut/tone reads and then justification for not having to explain those.

i also partly dont like explaining every single small things that come to my mind because

1) chances are they are wrong
2) chances are my own opinion of them change later on
3) they clog up the thread unnecessarily we honestly don't need every single detail of thoughts that I have

now, if you accept my love reqeust and we get a lovers chat, i can, of course, explain all the little things you want

This actually pings me quite a bit. Sure, you can be like "scum would never wanna be this brazen and admit this," but I don't think that's a strong enough argument.

1) Town shouldn't care about being wrong. Rather, they shouldn't care about that potential making them look suspicious. Scum care if they're caught being wrong and the associatives look bad for them.
2) Opinion changes are natural and one of the hardest things in the game for scum to fake with authenticity.
3) Sure... But there's a difference between clogging up the thread unnecessarily with every single detail and just saying "x is town" and "x is scum" off of pure gut and tone reads.

My problem with DT is that the things people point to when they say he looks towny are fairly lazy and not proactive. His entire ISO is waiting for people to come to him and interact with him. Very rarely does he take the initiative in pressuring people and it doesn't look like he's trying to proactively solve the game. There's a lot of "engage with me," but not a lot of engaging that's actually solving.

Like, I actually am calling you a flat out liar about you claiming to come on at the same time as me.

how the fuck am i a liar?

i never fucking lie as either alignment

like as scum i would definitely scum read you for things i would scum read as town to begin with so i dont understand what you mean by calling me a liar lol

Stuff like this also makes me doubt the strength of town reads on him. I think people tend to like him for how genuine his reads seem, but their surface level enough that I don't see why it couldn't just as easily be faked by scum.

Look at his progression in the pre-dance too:

Spoiler:

i think i am at the point where i'd rather just out in pre dance if i dont get brie maybe

This pings me. Specifically because it's so noncommittal. RC and Ank were obv!town because it was blatantly obvious they both believed the other was scum and was willing to leave the dance to take the other one out. Here, DT suggests he might just stay out of the pre-dance since he scum reads both Gamma and SS. Hey! That might actually be good for town and it's obviously a town motivated thing to do. Except he's never gonna actually do this, so what's the point in saying this?

taly i am at the point where i can sheep you shamelessly


who should i pair up with

and who are your scum reads

can we like start talking about parnters

@everyone who doesnt have a partner

but that means i need an actual town partner

who wants to partner up with me :/

Gamma, are you town?

stop fucking fighting over nothing when your boi doesnt even have a partner and is about to die

You, Pvt, Allo, Gamma, me.

I'm annoyed Brie took Moment's invitation without waiting for him to okay it, but I feel like the fact that I waited and Brie didn't should make me clearly town.

I like this post

gamma, if ss doesn't accept my shit and take whoever you want, will you take me to da dance

I just don't like the progression from "maybe I should just sit out" to looking for reasons to town read one of SS or Gamma. This is the kind of desperation I don't like. I don't think it's genuine trying to figure out who among the last ladies is scummier or townies, it's just looking for reasons to town read one of them so he can look fine going to the dance with them.

I'm also concerned that DT isn't actually pushing anyone. Like SS/DT is probably gonna be the first or second lynch and yet... His big most recent wall post is just defending himself from Krazy's meta case. He isn't offering up alternatives, and idk what his scum reads even are atm. Gamma?

@Thomas,

which pair is your preferred first lynch? And why haven't you made any efforts to push there? What are your reads rnow? Is SS strong town? Have you guys interacted in your PT at all?

@SS,

I think you're pretty strongly town. What is your read on DT? Also, I know you're struggling because your scum reads are all strongly town read by someone. But who is your first lynch ideally if you had complete control? Me and Nancy? What if we both flipped town?

I really really don't think we should be lynching Moment/Brie first. I have Brie as pretty strongly town (something I should probably elaborate on when I have mroe sleep tomorrow) and while I don't have a good read on Moment, I really think the amount RC + Ank pushed for Moment!town + the fact Moment hasn't even posted yet means lynching there is a terrible idea. Obviously, inactivity is harmful either way, but we might be fucking up a really strong T/T pairing as Ank and RC thought without even letting Moment get her thoughts in. I feel like maybe scum saw Moment/Brie as a threat pre-dance and are now trying to quickly dispatch of them.

There's also the fact that the reads there feel... Pretty lackluster?

Nancy can't elaborate on her Brie read

, Gamma's scum reading Moment for... not answering some question 30 pages ago. I forget what else. It's just scaring me how this pairing is the first being pushed after RC and Ank died. At the very least, it shouldn't be the first flip imo.

VOTE: DT

Please don’t lump me in with any of this. Moment’s absence is definitely hurting the game, we can’t ignore that fact. There is only a little over 5 days left! And no, I can’t elaborate on Brie, because as I already told you in our PT, I don’t want to get into trouble. I’m kind of upset that you seem to have jumped to the wrong conclusion. Sure, I absolutely could elaborate on it but I don’t know how to do that without being in violation of site rules. Yes, it’s extremely frustrating but not wanting to risk a ban is /= to lacking reasons.

Whenever I say in any game ever, that I can’t elaborate or discuss anything, that is ALWAYS what I mean

. Krazy, I think was bordering on doing something similar with you and since I also couldn’t comment on that, for similar reasons, I tried to nip it in the bud, because explaining it, is against the rules not just on here but on any mafia site. Capiche? God!

scummy overreaction, tbh

How is this an “overreaction”, let alone a “scummy” one?

dude made an entire wall literally dedicated to how I am scum but then you had to make a paragraph to try to explain how "you don't want to be lumped in with us"

Why the fuck do you care about that as town?

Why don't you want to comment on his case on me? that's probably way more worth it to talk about right?

[DoubtingThomas]

dude made an entire wall literally dedicated to how I am scum but then you had to make a paragraph to try to explain how "you don't want to be lumped in with us"

Why the fuck do you care about that as town?

Why don't you want to comment on his case on me? that's probably way more worth it to talk about right?

[DoubtingThomas]

Also I probably should have realized this before, but my strongest skill as a player is obvtowning while having shit reads. Which I've done here, but it doesn't count for anything if my pair gets lynched because of Thomas :/

I mean I didn't hate most of your null pool and the only slot I know you're objectively wrong on is me, and I get shitcased all the time by stronger players than you. I think it's my avi and lack of cute catchphrases. Not sure why you think your reads are shit; it's a near mathematic certainty there is scum in your bottom 3 tiers.

What did you make of dt's wall? Do you think his read of you is a natural progression?

krazy, you have an opinion on my wall literally dedicated to you?

[DoubtingThomas]

S_S

, can you explain your scumreads?

I glimpsed at

DT's

ISO as of the last several pages worth of his posts since my attention has been on other players.

But here's a few things I'm wondering about.

also i town read RC. I think RC's town ability is considerably good. i have no meta of you nor gamma. iirc, he hard town read you and said gamma was being worthless.

i am also ok sheeping that sentiment.

even if RC is wolf, i think he treats you and gamma like that if you are town. i really liked the way RC favored you over thebrie. tonally felt like a genuine town read, or something i dont know if wolves wanna do over their wolf packmate!gamma

Point is, RC is more valuable alive than dead

even when he's a wolf? :doge:

Why are you stating

RC

is a townread but several pages later you bring up the opportunity that he's a wolf?

I don't feel good that

S_S

is placing

RC's

reads higher than his own and you haven't pushed against that - all the while you're giving a mixed read on

RC

and his reads himself.

That does help me with not having to sort my partner, now I can just jam out reads

bad post is bad

Urist

is an IC. Why does this make

Gamma

less towny or not approaching the game effectively? He's asserting his other reads as he should.

These inconsistencies don't feel genuine. I'm leaning to

DT+S_S

contain scum somewhere.

As for

PB+Dr. W

, their interaction doesn't really feel town/town to me much yet? Based on what I'm hearing from the PT. But I'm not sure if that's where I'm thinking the first lynched pair should be at the moment.

Could be. I liked DT initially, then my read on him, dropped. I wish he’d post something in the PT. That is also what’s concerning me about moment except why does DT post here but not in his PT with SS?

what the fuck is this

why do you care if i post in a pt with someone else? LOL seems like a fabricated reason to make me look scummy

[DoubtingThomas]

nancy i dont want to make you cry like i did last time

you can case me if you want but you have to stop stalking me about whether or not I post in a PT with somebody else

why does me posting in PT or not posting in PT even matter for you? you cannot possibly think that is alignment indicative of me

i posted in the thread whenever i posted in the PT. S_S was probably talking about me not being in the thread after i went to sleep lastnight at 1 am or whenever

[DoubtingThomas]

I just realized it's hypocritical to suspect Nancy for not being able to read Gamma when she said she was obvtown in a previous game... because I too have read Gamma as obvtown before but cannot read her here.

My first ever meta case on Gamma was that she enjoys scum a bit more than town, so she has an inverted meta (the opposite of the Creature-style meta of 'lurk as scum, post a lot as town') and she tends to post heavier as scum. But I think that's because Gamma feeds back on feeling like she's part of a team. So it is plausible to me that she just really likes not having to sort her partner and that's why there's been a big upsurge in her confidence post-intermission.

Also possible that she just likes her scumteam a lot here though so... hard to say for sure. But that seems unlikely if DT flips scum, which is one of several reasons that I think we need some red flips so we can get a better feel for how the scum even feel about this game.

Your meta of me is very accurate, well done! I've actually noted myself I enjoy town more except in a good scumteam. And I think my confidence is in part because of my partner being IC'd because the cause is the flips are telling me I'm on track. So my townread on Pvt fed into that.

krazy having a wrong meta read is not the first time

[DoubtingThomas]

krazy, you have an opinion on my wall literally dedicated to you?

Well my first impression to it was "what" and now I'm kinda with everyone else in trying to decide if you thinking vedith/fire was still alive is actually AI

I can't tell if it's playstyle or what but I've felt very desynced from you. I didn't get why you didn't try to make your pairing with Brie happen and I didn't get why you hard-defended yourself when you were barely townreading SS.

Still processing it I guess, sorry that I don't have a more cohesive response to it yet

wait vedith and firebringer died?

[DoubtingThomas]

also i tried to make my pairing with brie happen, i just was busy and couldn't be on thread as much as i should have to play the game properly. sorry about that but i did go for brie pairing. she just accepted moment's especially after S_S wanted to wait and let moment choose. i think that act is kinda scummy in itself and not understanding why she is not getting more heat

also i hard defended myself because i town read SS and not scum read SS. that is not hard to understand. I think there are definite scum in Gamma or Brie. Maybe in PB, Nancy, etc if I look more into it. what are you curious about?

[DoubtingThomas]

At any rate,

I’m hardtownreading Dann for 4610

. I have good reason to think that this kind of passion he’s showing here about being leery of disregarding RC reads and being concerned about possibly mislynching moment/Brie never comes from scum!Dann. Do you agree @Krazy?

@DT

i said anything frmo PT. 4610 is a post in this thread?

I thought it was weird for you to have to mention a single post in the main thread to town read him when he's been engaging you interactively in PT

[DoubtingThomas]

wait vedith and firebringer died?

They sure did, Vedith did in fact leave the dance. They are both flipped town.

It's NAI that I missed that fact. what are you trying to consider?

why did vedith leave the dance?

[DoubtingThomas]

I mean, I've already said Thomas was nulltown. I'm trusting RC on Dann and Brie, so if I were to drop anyone it'd be Gamma... but any read on Gamma will get drowned out by IC WIFOM.

Not really... Gamma isn't getting lynched first for sure. That doesn't mean we don't need to make a choice about her literally in the next 5 days.

why not?

[DoubtingThomas]

Well if it's a mathematical certainty that scum is in there, it means that it didn't take any scumhunting skill to generate... I could put everyone in the scum tier and say "omg I scumread all the scum!" but it wouldn't mean anything.

Re: Thomas's wall, I don't know yet. I'm trying to get him to talk about that stuff a little more in the PT.

Having played with DT in a MU Lovers’ game, I can tell you that activity is NAI for him but town!him would express strong opinions in your PT. He did in ours - they were dead wrong but he definitely didn’t lack conviction.

did you want to be in my Lover PT that badly? why is this the only thing you talk about

[DoubtingThomas]

Krazy holding onto a meta case that I've already kinda said doesn't even apply anymore

and complaining about how "I might not even post before I wake up"

but being in the thread while I am posting a lot but not really trying to interact with me at all?

that's not a good look

[DoubtingThomas]

i am thinking you mentioning dann's specific post 4610 to town read him is odd because you have a PT with him

Yes but I can’t quote from there. Like wtf man first you think I need to be “re-evaluted” for asking why you posted in the main thread and not in your PT and now, it’s “odd” that I quote a post -

that the entire playerlist has access to

, to make my point.

???

I didn't know you can't quote frmo PT. but i assume you can talk about thing we talked about in PT? just not directly quote it? let me know if i am wrong

that being said, no you don't need to be re-evaluated because you asked me about some irrelavnat shit. you need to be re-evaluated because that's how a game of mafia works. be open minded and realize a read you've made in the very first phase of the game will bound to be imperfect, so definitely reevaluate after flips

dont tell me you dont reevaluate slots that's LOL

[DoubtingThomas]

why did vedith leave the dance?

Didn't like Fire ignoring the PT and thought Fire might be scum iirc

why not?

Well feel like there's enough other pairs that are priority PoEs that there's no reason to eliminate the IC'd pairing first, even if we think Gamma's scum at least she's spewing.

I think you said a bit ago that you weren't really sure on PB, can you go over your Worm-PB read again when you get a chance? I'm starting to think maybe I should just sheep Taly because my reads feel kinda fucked.

What exactly do you want me to go over?

I initially put Worm at a really high town read because I kinda had much fun laughing at his meta. PB at lower town for tonal reasons.

Then I saw 3 towns die (and apparently 5 now cuz of vedith) so obviously I feel the need to reevaluate my town reads. just from pure statistical point of view having 3 towns flipped, chances are my town reads are scums. I lost a lot of my initial town feels/reads I had on some people except Taly, then I liked your meta case on me so put you at town, and have just reevaluated worm and pb to the point of null and am waiting to interact with them to get a better read on them

[DoubtingThomas]

I kinda want to flip a coin that can only land heads up and just assume Thomas is town... maybe a F6 of us/Nannflor/TheMoment?

Has he posted something in your PT to convince you he’s town? Or are you solely basing that on his derping about Vedith/Fire?

Since I wrongly read scum!Varsoon for derping in BoR, I am not that quick to tr anyone solely based on that.

how is me derping about vedith/fire alignment indicative

[DoubtingThomas]

Alright, but he won't be posting for another 10-11 hours based on his schedule.

This is not really a gamestate that dramatically rewards going 10 hours of waiting for someone to post reads they should have posted 3 days ago.

it's kinda gross you keep a schedule check on me LOL

[DoubtingThomas]

Krazy holding onto a meta case that I've already kinda said doesn't even apply anymore

and complaining about how "I might not even post before I wake up"

but being in the thread while I am posting a lot but not really trying to interact with me at all?

that's not a good look

You know every time you add a reply it refreshes my pedit, and I actually read it right LOL

anyway, you *saying* the meta case doesn't hold up is not the same thing as me *agreeing* the meta case does not hold up. It's something I actually need to think about.

And yes, you didn't post at all on Saturday basically, and I think this is the first time you've posted at all in this time window this game, unless I'm misremembering something from early pre-dance. You almost exclusively post in a 1.5 hour window which starts in about 8 hours from now.

so you don't have questions for me prepared? Even though you had a very long case on me/scum reading me to an extent but not 100% sold on me being scum and wants to see my flip?

[DoubtingThomas]

Also I will say if Dannflor flips scum he just spewed me and Thomas town really hard.

I kinda want to flip a coin that can only land heads up and just assume Thomas is town... maybe a F6 of us/

Nannflor

/TheMoment?

*confused*

what's to confuse about

[DoubtingThomas]

so you don't have questions for me prepared? Even though you had a very long case on me/scum reading me to an extent but not 100% sold on me being scum and wants to see my flip?

Yeah, I wanted to see your flip because I kinda reached the point that I wasn't sure I could sort you by asking questions.

Like, if it's not you first, then I would say I want to lynch PB for this progression on you:

Spoiler:

So my final suggestion is:
PvtUrist/Gamma
Moment/TheBrie
DoubtingThomas/SS
Allonely, I'm so lonely (8)

I support PinkBall's suggestions for pairings. It'll be interesting what input the people actually involved provide however particularly because I think there's likely some scum in there.

So my final suggestion is:
PvtUrist/Gamma
Moment/TheBrie
DoubtingThomas/SS
Allonely, I'm so lonely (8)

not bad

saying people are okay with pairing you with SS is basically saying they're okay with lynching you with dance 1 at this point, in case the subtext here isn't clear

I mean I kinda poe'd you as scum but I have never really seen anything that makes me think there's a smoking gun, I just haven't seen a lot of sorting from you. So if you think Pvt or Moment should be with SS instead of you, you need to kind of say why

Not true. I'm not scumreading either of them

mostly because I have a hard time comprehending why PB would put you at the bottom of his list next to Allo and then backpedal to saying he was "not scumreading" you.

I'm still not sure that's a stronger case than the one on you, and I'm still not sure I buy your "that's not my meta" rebuttal. I'm not a player that really thrives on lots of jerky interactions with someone who hasn't read the thread. Why would your reads right now be alignment indicative or make me feel better about you when you are only responding to what people say in real time based on things you don't have context for?

So yeah, if you're re-evaluating your PB read, I'd like to hear it... but it doesn't help me at all for you to say "well I'm not caught up and I'm not going to get caught up"... that makes your slot basically unreadable because it is unable to separate dumbtells from actual sorting. And I feel like you are capable of more cohesive processing as town.

Like, you seeming slightly more townie is something that makes me think, "Oh, maybe I should go reread PB again," not "oh I should spam 50 questions to someone who hasn't read the thread"

if you want to interact with me, you are more than welcome but if you are just locked into pushing my lynch then... okay

what is your case on me disregarding a meta reason?

[DoubtingThomas]

if you want to interact with me, you are more than welcome but if you are just locked into pushing my lynch then... okay

what is your case on me disregarding a meta reason?

I didn't like your reaction to RC's death, and I didn't like you exclusively focusing on my meta case and ignoring the fact that I didn't like your reaction to RC's death.

I don't like that you prioritized avoiding being lynched over refining your read of S_S in your response to my meta case, I didn't like that you seemed disinterested in sorting S_S prior to coming into the thread and defending yourself, I don't like that you come in and spam posts without reading back in the game first (even if that's a playstyle thing), and I didn't like the feeling you were trying to get me to direct your pairing in dance 1, when if you are town your own pairing would likely be your top concern.

There's a lot about your play this game, independent of meta, I don't like. But I also frankly think this game does loosely fit into your scum meta. However, as I have acknowledged, some of these could plausibly be playstyle conflicts. There's just a lot about your slot I would prefer to stop second-guessing myself on.

The strongest argument in your favor right now is that you were unaware that Vedith/FB flipped, but as you yourself have explained that is NAI.

That being said, it's not like your pairing is S/S. Maybe there is an argument to be made in favor of PB going first instead.

I focused exclusively on your meta case because S_S pointed it out and asked me how I felt about it. I ended up writing a long wall on it and wanted to/waited to see what others thought about it. It's not really I ignored your other points on me exclusively, I just felt obligated to answer and wait for people to feel my interaction with you because S_S specifically mentioned the case on me

I guess it's a very good argument of yours to point out that I seemed disinterested in solving S_S's slot. But I just have them as really high town in a mechanical stand point and in the way they approached talking to me in our lovers chat. I don't think it's too crazy to think that I would be more interested in saving myself instead of killing myself in intermissions.

I tried to get you to help me pick a pair in a sense, partly because I felt very uninvested in the game and didn't have the motivation to read every single thing. I also wanted to learn how you (and others) thought about game state/me which helps me read the rest of you and wanted to go from there. It wasn't like, "Krazy, who should I pair up with? pick whoever you think is good!" kind of attitude

[DoubtingThomas]

Well if it's a mathematical certainty that scum is in there, it means that it didn't take any scumhunting skill to generate... I could put everyone in the scum tier and say "omg I scumread all the scum!" but it wouldn't mean anything.

Re: Thomas's wall, I don't know yet. I'm trying to get him to talk about that stuff a little more in the PT.

Having played with DT in a MU Lovers’ game, I can tell you that activity is NAI for him but town!him would express strong opinions in your PT. He did in ours - they were dead wrong but he definitely didn’t lack conviction.

did you want to be in my Lover PT that badly? why is this the only thing you talk about

Lolwut?

You were town in that game and it was blatantly obvious, soley based on what you posted in our DC.

wtf? why are you lying you literally cussed me out in discord lover PT for thinking you could be scum

you said "you are just scum at this point for not obv town reading me" then you got banned for angleshooting (lol)

don't pretend you correctly town read me. you literally subbed out cuz u thought i was a scum for not reading you town

which was kinda insane

[DoubtingThomas]

DT, is this the part where I make a post saying, "Oh you just asked me to interact with you and now you've stopped posting, bad look for you"

Because that certainly makes me confident that your interactions with me are made in good faith

kinda different

I spent like a good hour on the thread and i went to eat dinner

i pointed out you weren't doing what i expected you to do despite you having me as your top lynch candidate which makes me feel like potentially you are scum reading me to mislynch me.

me pointing this out is different than you pointing out that i didn't interact with you because i don't scum read you at least as of now and i want to solve gamma/brie/etc

not sure why you are trying to just shade my ass but ok

[DoubtingThomas]

I just have them as really high town in a mechanical stand point

what does this mean?

the fact that S_S was hesitant into accepting moment's invitation whereas brie hastily accepted it.

then S_S went on to mull on PvT, allo?, and then my invitation to accept my invitation after interacting with me / feeling better abotu it

i was referring to the dance invite as mechnical info

[DoubtingThomas]

Also I will say if Dannflor flips scum he just spewed me and Thomas town really hard.

I kinda want to flip a coin that can only land heads up and just assume Thomas is town... maybe a F6 of us/

Nannflor

/TheMoment?

*confused*

what's to confuse about

Because I think these posts seem contradictory. You disagree?

"I think Nancy is maybe town"

"I think Nancy is maybe scum"

in a game of mafia

is contradictory

ok hurr durr

[DoubtingThomas]

i pointed out you weren't doing what i expected you to do despite you having me as your top lynch candidate which makes me feel like potentially you are scum reading me to mislynch me.

me pointing this out is different than you pointing out that i didn't interact with you because i don't scum read you at least as of now and i want to solve gamma/brie/etc

not sure why you are trying to just shade my ass but ok

well do you think I appreciate it when I am going back to reread the thread and then you fucking accuse me of deliberately not interacting with you in real time?

because that is bullshit

why are you so mad? how am I supposed to know that you went to reread?

I think it was reasonable for me to say that given you haven't tried to interact with me for Idk how long but at least 30 minutes ~ 1 hour long duration

DESPITE complaining all over the thread about how I am not posting enough blah bleh blegh

don't give me this fucking attitude

[DoubtingThomas]

I still want to hear

Dr. W/Gamma's

vote on

Brie

.

I looked at

Brie/Moment

and I don't see what was sketchy about their pairing? It was discussed that both of them would be a viable pairing and both of them had a mutual read and gear towards solving each other.

did you want to interact with me at all?

[DoubtingThomas]

My argument was that you should have had reads three days ago and that town is on the clock. I think I made exactly one post about it. Stop acting like I was talking up a storm about your post activity, that was simply me refuting the notion that there wasn't enough to work with irt your slot to get a read.

i town read SS and not scum read SS. that is not hard to understand. I think there are definite scum in Gamma or Brie. Maybe in PB, Nancy, etc if I look more into it.

As far as I know this is your reads right now. We have 5 days to solve the game. Who gets lynched today DT? Why are you continuing to bitch about me not spoonfeeding you interactions when you are presenting 0 indications of a solving mindset? Do you want Brie lynched today? Do you want Gamma to go first? Why in that order?

I have read your games and you are not this directionless as town. I feel like you just want to throw dirt at whoever is online and posting rather than working toward a gamesolve.

I thought I made my reads on other players to a certain degree so I am confused as to why you are trying to shade me this hard.

I think Gamma is obv scum but didn't realize she is partners with IC. Thinking maybe we can let them live technically just because we know for sure her partner is town and you made a fair point about gamma 'spewing'

I think Worm/PB are pretty null.

I think Brie's "reads" have been very subpar. I explained this before but you haven't read my posts properly so I will say it again

These are all of her "reads" that she made today:

Leaning towards scum on Moment, but he's not giving me anything to read. Conflicted on Pink Ball.

I went and did meta on Gamma. Her game is quite similar as town and scum, as town she's got more questions that force others to get involved and are really challenging, as a little less "Explain this" and sort of mechanical stuff, or comments on how people are playing. But it's close, and I can't tell which side this falls on. Maybe a tiny bit towards the scum side, but not enough to say anything solid. It's not outside her town range.

There's a few things that give me a scummy feel, but overall... I've not gotten her sorted out. i just know I'm not putting her solidly in as town.

In summary, she basically just says, "I lean scum. but he doesn't have any content to base my read on him. Idk Pink ball. I did meta on Gamma. I can't tell if she's town or scum. maybe a little scum. Don't have anything solid.

This is definition of hedging and she is refusing to take a stance. I think that is an overtly scum trait.

I also don't buy her explanation of insta accepting moment's invitation, as S_S pointed out

Mostly because I was afraid life would hardly let me on before the deadline. i had a couple days of full on work (waking up at three am), and I didn't know then how tired I would be the rest of the time. Bad reason.
Also, I wasn't really townreading SS then, and didn't really want her with Moment.

i don't really see scum!Moment asking scum!SS when he had a reasonable chance of town!me accepting. So currently townreading SS. Not townreading Moment, but I want to see him post again before making a final judgement.

I think this is >rand scum thing to do.

I also think Nancy constantly talking about my lover PT is >rand scum. I cannot understand why she thinks that would be NAI and scum read me for it. sounds scummy.

I think Worm's tone is townie, but I am confused as to why he completely ignored you and my interaction to talk about me at all in the last 10 pages that I read

I think Gamma has done very little solving and noone really town reads her. I think the way she got mad and attacked me out of nowehre is extremely scummy because she was blatantly lying about my progression on her. I think she can go, but I can accept why people wouldn't want to lynch her because she is lovers with an IC.

In that sense, I think Brie also has very high scum equity especially with her performance today. I haven't read Moment at all. hopefully he comes back soon. maybe ill iso him eventually.

I think nancy has good scum equity as well for oddly attacking me for not talking in lovers PT when i simply havent been on. I also think it was weird for her to give a reason for twon reading dann by using a post itt despite having lovers PT she so loves to talk about with him. i think dann is kinda townie for his posts tho and i initially town read nancy, so i personally prefer brie's lynch who i scum read harder and have no opinion on the lover for

i made all of this pretty clear in my recent posts so don't give me the "i dont see any reads from you" shit. read my shit.

i think you are just conf biasing and not reading my posts to tunnel me. i think you cussing me out is unnecessary and just provoking me really hard. believe me i can get real toxic real fast.

i don't want to go down that path so if you unnecessarily cuss me out again i will just ignore your presence and play the game around so i can at least leave a good legacy if you are just gonna deathtunnel me. i do think you are somewhat townie (despite S_S believing otherwise) and I think Taly is very townie so I don't want to get involved in a useless mess with you.

good luck with the rest of the game if you have anything intelligent to say that you want to approach me in a mature way to talk about, i'd be glad to talk. otherwise, i think you are just stuck in a tunnel and will play the game around you

[DoubtingThomas]

Also I will say if Dannflor flips scum he just spewed me and Thomas town really hard.

I kinda want to flip a coin that can only land heads up and just assume Thomas is town... maybe a F6 of us/

Nannflor

/TheMoment?

*confused*

what's to confuse about

Because I think these posts seem contradictory. You disagree?

"I think Nancy is maybe town"

"I think Nancy is maybe scum"

in a game of mafia

is contradictory

ok hurr durr

You are misrepping what I’m saying here. SS wants us in the final 6 and then makes that comment about Dann flipping scum, so it didn’t and STILL doesn’t make sense to me.

No, you are misrepping S_S

I can talk about someone flipping scum all I want and still want to have them in F6, heck even town read them because my town reads can be scum and scum reads can be town

[DoubtingThomas]

I think Gamma has done very little solving and noone really town reads her. I think the way she got mad and attacked me out of nowehre is extremely scummy because she was blatantly lying about my progression on her. I think she can go, but I can accept why people wouldn't want to lynch her because she is lovers with an IC.

In that sense, I think Brie also has very high scum equity especially with her performance today. I haven't read Moment at all. hopefully he comes back soon. maybe ill iso him eventually.

I think nancy has good scum equity as well for oddly attacking me for not talking in lovers PT when i simply havent been on. I also think it was weird for her to give a reason for twon reading dann by using a post itt despite having lovers PT she so loves to talk about with him. i think dann is kinda townie for his posts tho and i initially town read nancy, so i personally prefer brie's lynch who i scum read harder and have no opinion on the lover for

So, why aren't you voting Brie?

waiting to talk to S_S about stuff. he's been gone now.

I wasn't sure if we vote as a pair or not and wanted to hear S_S's opinion. Also think we have couple days left before voting?

why should i vote so early in the day phase?

[DoubtingThomas]

DT

, why is

Brie

scum to you? As neither

Gamma

or

Dr. W

have explained to me yet.

i am not sure if u read post #4853 or not

if you did and are still asking me why i scum read brie just lynch me because i thought that was a pretty god damn good case and people obviously don't give a shit about what i say

[DoubtingThomas]

My argument was that you should have had reads three days ago and that town is on the clock. I think I made exactly one post about it. Stop acting like I was talking up a storm about your post activity, that was simply me refuting the notion that there wasn't enough to work with irt your slot to get a read.

i town read SS and not scum read SS. that is not hard to understand. I think there are definite scum in Gamma or Brie. Maybe in PB, Nancy, etc if I look more into it.

As far as I know this is your reads right now. We have 5 days to solve the game. Who gets lynched today DT? Why are you continuing to bitch about me not spoonfeeding you interactions when you are presenting 0 indications of a solving mindset? Do you want Brie lynched today? Do you want Gamma to go first? Why in that order?

I have read your games and you are not this directionless as town. I feel like you just want to throw dirt at whoever is online and posting rather than working toward a gamesolve.

I thought I made my reads on other players to a certain degree so I am confused as to why you are trying to shade me this hard.

I think Gamma is obv scum but didn't realize she is partners with IC. Thinking maybe we can let them live technically just because we know for sure her partner is town and you made a fair point about gamma 'spewing'

I think Worm/PB are pretty null.

I think Brie's "reads" have been very subpar. I explained this before but you haven't read my posts properly so I will say it again

These are all of her "reads" that she made today:

Leaning towards scum on Moment, but he's not giving me anything to read. Conflicted on Pink Ball.

I went and did meta on Gamma. Her game is quite similar as town and scum, as town she's got more questions that force others to get involved and are really challenging, as a little less "Explain this" and sort of mechanical stuff, or comments on how people are playing. But it's close, and I can't tell which side this falls on. Maybe a tiny bit towards the scum side, but not enough to say anything solid. It's not outside her town range.

There's a few things that give me a scummy feel, but overall... I've not gotten her sorted out. i just know I'm not putting her solidly in as town.

In summary, she basically just says, "I lean scum. but he doesn't have any content to base my read on him. Idk Pink ball. I did meta on Gamma. I can't tell if she's town or scum. maybe a little scum. Don't have anything solid.

This is definition of hedging and she is refusing to take a stance. I think that is an overtly scum trait.

I also don't buy her explanation of insta accepting moment's invitation, as S_S pointed out

Mostly because I was afraid life would hardly let me on before the deadline. i had a couple days of full on work (waking up at three am), and I didn't know then how tired I would be the rest of the time. Bad reason.
Also, I wasn't really townreading SS then, and didn't really want her with Moment.

i don't really see scum!Moment asking scum!SS when he had a reasonable chance of town!me accepting. So currently townreading SS. Not townreading Moment, but I want to see him post again before making a final judgement.

I think this is >rand scum thing to do.

I also think Nancy constantly talking about my lover PT is >rand scum. I cannot understand why she thinks that would be NAI and scum read me for it. sounds scummy.

I think Worm's tone is townie, but I am confused as to why he completely ignored you and my interaction to talk about me at all in the last 10 pages that I read

I think Gamma has done very little solving and noone really town reads her. I think the way she got mad and attacked me out of nowehre is extremely scummy because she was blatantly lying about my progression on her. I think she can go, but I can accept why people wouldn't want to lynch her because she is lovers with an IC.

In that sense, I think Brie also has very high scum equity especially with her performance today. I haven't read Moment at all. hopefully he comes back soon. maybe ill iso him eventually.

I think nancy has good scum equity as well for oddly attacking me for not talking in lovers PT when i simply havent been on. I also think it was weird for her to give a reason for twon reading dann by using a post itt despite having lovers PT she so loves to talk about with him. i think dann is kinda townie for his posts tho and i initially town read nancy, so i personally prefer brie's lynch who i scum read harder and have no opinion on the lover for

i made all of this pretty clear in my recent posts so don't give me the "i dont see any reads from you" shit. read my shit.

i think you are just conf biasing and not reading my posts to tunnel me. i think you cussing me out is unnecessary and just provoking me really hard. believe me i can get real toxic real fast.

i don't want to go down that path so if you unnecessarily cuss me out again i will just ignore your presence and play the game around so i can at least leave a good legacy if you are just gonna deathtunnel me. i do think you are somewhat townie (despite S_S believing otherwise) and I think Taly is very townie so I don't want to get involved in a useless mess with you.

good luck with the rest of the game if you have anything intelligent to say that you want to approach me in a mature way to talk about, i'd be glad to talk. otherwise, i think you are just stuck in a tunnel and will play the game around you

There is nothing even remotely scummy about any of my comments about my your lovers’ PT.

VOTE: DoubtingThomas

I have not done anything of the kind to you in this game. Unlike SS who, is actually trying to solve the game, I think you’re scum trying to setup my mislynch but creating a toxic environment, just because I think SS can get a decent read on you in your PT.

you apparently 'town read' me earlier, but it dropped down. then you started scum reading me because 'i don't post on PT' then you constantly ask me asinine questions like 'why haven't you posted in lovers PT?'

well because i havent been fucking logged onto mafia scum, kid

I think you are just asking me questions for the sake of asking questions to make me look scummy

i think you used the fact of me not talking in lover's PT as an excuse to set up a mislynch on our slot.

[DoubtingThomas]

waiting to talk to S_S about stuff. he's been gone now.

I wasn't sure if we vote as a pair or not and wanted to hear S_S's opinion. Also think we have couple days left before voting?

why should i vote so early in the day phase?

We have 5 days left until the end of the game

The rest of the game must be played out within those five days. If we don't start getting flips soon, we're gonna have a lot less time to deal with potential lylo situations.

The fact that today has consisted mostly of you defending yourself and getting you to commit strongly to any one push is worrying.

Slowing down this day phase is strictly anti town.

Oh I thought we get a week or so of time per lynching?

but the entire game ends at the end of the five days? what happens if we have a situation where only like 1 scum is alive with a lot of townies so parity is not reached by the end of the 5? scums still win?

[DoubtingThomas]

i think you used the fact of me not talking in lover's PT as an excuse to set up a mislynch on our slot.

What?

Why do you think Nancy would pursue that specifically to "set up a mislynch" when both Krazy and I have been vocal about our suspicions of you? That doesn't make sense. Nancy doesn't even need to create an "excuse" to set up a mislynch with your slot because it's very likely your pair or Moment/Brie is going first anyway. I don't follow this train of thought.

Old friend used to say

when you ask yourself, "Why would scum do that?", that's exactly the reason why they would do that.

You are not making any sense. You think just because some others scum read you, that means you wouldn't make up an asinine reason to scum read that person?

You think Nancy changing her read on me from town to scum because I don't post in Lover's PT (which was only because I haven't been on mafiascum) is a legitimate reason to be concerned about/scum read me?

I am not sure if you understand nancy's reason to constantly pester the thread about how I didn't post in Lover's PT to be scum indicative, but you might have an idea. Why do you think Nancy is constantly mentioning that in the thread?

It'd be okay if she just talks about it once or twice, but she does it multiple times. Further, I am still having a hard time understanding how that is alignment indicative, especially when she said so herself -- effort for DT is NAI. So why is me not posting in lovers pt scum indicative of me to her?

[DoubtingThomas]

you apparently 'town read' me earlier, but it dropped down. then you started scum reading me because 'i don't post on PT' then you constantly ask me asinine questions like 'why haven't you posted in lovers PT?'

well because i havent been fucking logged onto mafia scum, kid

I think you are just asking me questions for the sake of asking questions to make me look scummy

i think you used the fact of me not talking in lover's PT as an excuse to set up a mislynch on our slot.

I actually really don't think this is town.

vote me

[DoubtingThomas]

but the entire game ends at the end of the five days? what happens if we have a situation where only like 1 scum is alive with a lot of townies so parity is not reached by the end of the 5? scums still win?

YES

Do you maybe understand why I wasn't particularly interested in waiting 10 hours to get your flip earlier? And maybe why I am paying attention to when you do or do not post? Because stalling out the game with mud-slinging and AtE is scum indicative when literally every day that goes by without a flip advances the scum wincon

Like how am I supposed to take anything your slot says seriously, regardless of alignment, when you have apparently read nothing of the setup and followed nothing about the discussions that have shaped the game? Maybe it's somehow town indicative, but how are we supposed to solve with you at this point??? I'm not even tunneling--I'm considering the prospect you're town but I have no idea how you can claim to have nuanced reads on players when it's like you're playing an entirely different game

I am not expecting you to do anything. I am now playing the game.

I didn't read the setup, yeah that's facts. Oops, sorry. There are pretty shitty people to play with in a game of mafia in an online forum.

Complain about it all you want. Don't tell me you've not seen someone worse than me.

It doesn't matter. Regardless, I am here to play and I am doing the best of my ability to help my alignment win. That is all there to say. Scum read me all you want for not reading the set up or not posting before. I am here to post now and willing to engage anyone who wants to solve me genuinely.

You can vote me if you think I am scum. I don't care. I will play this game to the best of my ability that I can with what I have now.

Next.

[DoubtingThomas]

vote me

He is the second vote on your wagon. He is.

You don't even know who is voting you!!!!!

I'm stepping away from this thread but this slot needs to GO TODAY.

FFS.

Then that's fucking weird isn't it

I actually really don't think this is town.

fucking implies he didn't think I was scum before, imo. yet he was already voting me.

I think this is a potential slip tbh

[DoubtingThomas]

waiting to talk to S_S about stuff. he's been gone now.

I wasn't sure if we vote as a pair or not and wanted to hear S_S's opinion. Also think we have couple days left before voting?

why should i vote so early in the day phase?

I specifically said in the PT that you can lynch someone while I'm gone...

I thought you wanted to talk about stuff in the thread too tho

wait so when i vote, does that count as your vote too?

and everyone only has 1 vote now right? no coins?

[DoubtingThomas]

suck on deez nuts kid

[DoubtingThomas]

vote me

I am

then why the hell did you want to mention abotu how you don't believe I am actually town? even though you already shouldn't havebelieve that when you voted me?

[DoubtingThomas]

qq more krazy, i bet you are the type of town that scums can easily manipulate to get mad and make the toxic chaotic ftl of town

get good

[DoubtingThomas]

literally gets mad at the tiniest shit

[DoubtingThomas]

vote me

He is the second vote on your wagon. He is.

You don't even know who is voting you!!!!!

I'm stepping away from this thread but this slot needs to GO TODAY.

FFS.

Then that's fucking weird isn't it

I actually really don't think this is town.

fucking implies he didn't think I was scum before, imo. yet he was already voting me.

I think this is a potential slip tbh

What the fuck

Now you're just flinging dirt everywhere with no rhyme or reason

I know you didn't miss my wall of a case on you + my vote on you because you called me town for it

Me saying I don't think this specific post is town does not mean I thought you were town before

I think it's weird for you to call that out when what you are saying is already implied in your vote on me

[DoubtingThomas]

vote me

I am

then why the hell did you want to mention abotu how you don't believe I am actually town? even though you already shouldn't havebelieve that when you voted me?

I initially questioned the reasoning behind your post because it didn't make sense

then after thinking about it I realized it was just straight up scummy

please entertain me as to how it was just straight up scummy

[DoubtingThomas]

so you are already scum reading someone

then you read their post

and your first impression is to think that it doesn't make sense

then you rethink about it and you think it's just straight up scummy

so you went to post about how you actually don't believe i am town?

hmmm lol ok

[DoubtingThomas]

when you ask yourself, "Why would scum do that?", that's exactly the reason why they would do that.

You are not making any sense. You think just because some others scum read you, that means you wouldn't make up an asinine reason to scum read that person?

You think Nancy changing her read on me from town to scum because I don't post in Lover's PT (which was only because I haven't been on mafiascum) is a legitimate reason to be concerned about/scum read me?

I am not sure if you understand nancy's reason to constantly pester the thread about how I didn't post in Lover's PT to be scum indicative, but you might have an idea. Why do you think Nancy is constantly mentioning that in the thread?

Because it's an important line of questioning

I myself mentioned a couple times in OUR PT that hearing from people's posts in their PTs and how they were sorting their partners would be extremely important. When the day started SS said you guys hadn't interacted, so making sure people are actually interacting in their PTs with

5 fucking days

left on the deadline is really important

yea?

'making sure we interact in the PT'

is not the same as constantly yapping abot

"WHERES DT"

"WHY ISNT DT POSTING IN PT"

"S_S HAVE DT TALKED IN PT?"

when i havent even posted in the game thread

it's very different

[DoubtingThomas]

hey krazy, do i have "direction" yet?

lmfao

[DoubtingThomas]

vote me

He is the second vote on your wagon. He is.

You don't even know who is voting you!!!!!

I'm stepping away from this thread but this slot needs to GO TODAY.

FFS.

I could buy may be buy the Vedith/Fire derp but this is just too much.

if you stop talking now, i will still scum read gamma and brie more than you so i might not vote you

the more you talk the scummier you get

[DoubtingThomas]

so you are already scum reading someone

then you read their post

and your first impression is to think that it doesn't make sense

then you rethink about it and you think it's just straight up scummy

so you went to post about how you actually don't believe i am town?

hmmm lol ok

I was referring to your post

it's not a town post

and I wanted to make that clear because i think it should be clear to others

You've gone into full dirt flinging mode and the fact that you don't seem to be aware of the state of the game is just adding more confusion and frustration

ok, so i asked why that post was so scummy to you?

you constantly insulting my play and belittling as full dirt flinging mode isn't gonna help me nor yourself play better.

[DoubtingThomas]

come on kids I am here to dance. I thought you guys wanted me to put in more effort?

now people are gone when I finally do

[DoubtingThomas]

Well if it's a mathematical certainty that scum is in there, it means that it didn't take any scumhunting skill to generate... I could put everyone in the scum tier and say "omg I scumread all the scum!" but it wouldn't mean anything.

Re: Thomas's wall, I don't know yet. I'm trying to get him to talk about that stuff a little more in the PT.

Having played with DT in a MU Lovers’ game, I can tell you that activity is NAI for him but town!him would express strong opinions in your PT. He did in ours - they were dead wrong but he definitely didn’t lack conviction.

I guess I can ask -- nancy where are you voting?

I’ve already said that I’m leaning DT.

I’m just waiting to see if he posts anything in his PT and what SS thinks of it.

Alright, but he won't be posting for another 10-11 hours based on his schedule.

This is not really a gamestate that dramatically rewards going 10 hours of waiting for someone to post reads they should have posted 3 days ago.

DT and moment both tbh. Eventhough I’m currently hardtownreading Dann, I don’t understand why he isn’t taking this into account. As far as I’m concerned, not posting in your PT/not doing anything to either help sort your partner/be sorted by them/giving reads’ post-flip is not pro-town irrespective of your alignment. Like we only have 5 days left, so everyone who’s town here, absolutely needs to be doing this.

Come on Dann. It should be illegal to blatantly lie like that about literal facts that can be proven by multiquoting

Nancy has been all over my dick talking about how i dont post in my PT these are just couple posts i scrapped just from by skimming and ctrl+f'ing PT and DT

[DoubtingThomas]

is there maj?

[DoubtingThomas]

so you are already scum reading someone

then you read their post

and your first impression is to think that it doesn't make sense

then you rethink about it and you think it's just straight up scummy

so you went to post about how you actually don't believe i am town?

hmmm lol ok

How do you not know who’s voting you? How?

cuz mafiascum fucking sucks and I have to try to find mod's post in order to see vote counts instead of just clicking on a button like you do on MU

praise MU the superior site

[DoubtingThomas]

ok, so i asked why that post was so scummy to you?

you constantly insulting my play and belittling as full dirt flinging mode isn't gonna help me nor yourself play better.

You're painting Nancy to have a scummy agenda instead of acknowledging her concerns had merit. It's another shade of your defensive play this dance instead of actually taking the initiative and pushing somewhere yourself. To pull out the theory of "Nancy was trying to drive a mislynch with that" isn't a town narrative imo

You still have not voted

I literally said the same thing as nancy said when she voted me, you realize, right?

she said i was starting to scum read her for constantly mentioning lovers PT instead of solving w me because "I was trying to set up her mislynch" go look at the post she voted me on

so "DT was trying to drive a mislynch with that" is a town narrativeiyo?

it is so dumb to think that I have not taken a stance. Why don't you go read my scum games to see if I am ever in hell scared of fucking 'voting' someone

chill. i was tryna talk to S_S

[DoubtingThomas]

pink ball's posts seem opportunistic

[DoubtingThomas]

Oh everyone is scumreading DT? Hmmm not good with my theory that Krazy is the deepwolf and avoiding the lynch of Moment/TheBrie. Can we lynch that pair first and then if you want we lynch DT?

You think Moment/Brie are wolfier than DT?

i cannot fathom you would think i am scum for not posting in PT despite playing with me as a lover yourself

why do you think i am scum? i didnt see a legit progression frmo your alleged town read of my slot from intermission to "i think dt is scum.. why isnt he posting in lovers PT?"

[DoubtingThomas]

Oh ok I get the argument against lynching Moment and TheBrie first. I still think there's scum there.

@DT if I came and voted you, you would have said the same. Why the fuck defending you would be opportunistic

i am talking about how you seem to be okay with moment/thebrie/me to be lynched whenever one of us are getting pushed

[DoubtingThomas]

tonally it doesnt feel like you care about who dies

[DoubtingThomas]

like "ok ppl are scum reading DT. let's lynch moment/thebrie and then lynch DT ?"

thats scum 101

[DoubtingThomas]

You're making a logical jump that I'm not doing. I said that, if RC had three players as the scummiest and he was wrong on one of them, then he was wrong on at least one other player who wasn't in his lynchpool. I never said he HAS to be wrong about Moment/TheBrie; that's my take. I think he was wrong about one of them, that's my opinion

His lynch pool was literally everyone but Me, Nancy, Moment, and Brie.

feeling like you are saying we should treat RC's reads like the gospel

[DoubtingThomas]

like "ok ppl are scum reading DT. let's lynch moment/thebrie and then lynch DT ?"

thats scum 101

No, you dense mofo. If Moment/TheBrie flips red, people will get associations, I clearly stated that. That would save your ass of being

mislynched

, something that you clearly are not being able to do

dude. did u just scum slip me town

[DoubtingThomas]

feeling like you are saying we should treat RC's reads like the gospel

Nope.

I'm just saying his lynch pool wasn't like 3 people, it was everyone but the two pairs. So using the logic that he was wrong about someone in his "lynch pool" meaning that one of his four confident reads are wrong doesn't follow. I'm not saying RC is gospel, but that using that logic to attack Moment/Brie straight up doesn't work.

it's just dumb to be arguing about a dead dude's reads to decide town/scum read on a living player.

just drop this tbh

[DoubtingThomas]

VOTE: thebrie

[DoubtingThomas]

Pinkie ball, you scum read both moment and thebrie?

i personally think scums will try to avoid being lovers with each other

who do you think are the other scum?

[DoubtingThomas]

Oh everyone is scumreading DT? Hmmm not good with my theory that Krazy is the deepwolf and avoiding the lynch of Moment/TheBrie. Can we lynch that pair first and then if you want we lynch DT?

You think Moment/Brie are wolfier than DT?

i cannot fathom you would think i am scum for not posting in PT despite playing with me as a lover yourself

why do you think i am scum? i didnt see a legit progression frmo your alleged town read of my slot from intermission to "i think dt is scum.. why isnt he posting in lovers PT?"

I think you’re scum for your REACTION to my wanting SS to sort you in that PT.

sounds bull

[DoubtingThomas]

Pinkie ball, you scum read both moment and thebrie?

i personally think scums will try to avoid being lovers with each other

who do you think are the other scum?

No, I think it's only Moment. Before this day I thought Moment/ThwBrie and you/SS would contain the three scums. Now I think it's only Moment and Krazy as partner. The third one I have literally no idea.

lol its funny that we can agree to lynch moment/thebrie cuz we scum read different people

[DoubtingThomas]

like "ok ppl are scum reading DT. let's lynch moment/thebrie and then lynch DT ?"

thats scum 101

No, you dense mofo. If Moment/TheBrie flips red, people will get associations, I clearly stated that. That would save your ass of being

mislynched

, something that you clearly are not being able to do

dude. did u just scum slip me town

I'm townreading you, idiot. I have talked about people being mislynched since the begining of the game according to my reads

He doesn’t even know who’s voting him. Like what are you townreading him for?

how is that AI?

[DoubtingThomas]

like "ok ppl are scum reading DT. let's lynch moment/thebrie and then lynch DT ?"

thats scum 101

No, you dense mofo. If Moment/TheBrie flips red, people will get associations, I clearly stated that. That would save your ass of being

mislynched

, something that you clearly are not being able to do

dude. did u just scum slip me town

I'm townreading you, idiot. I have talked about people being mislynched since the begining of the game according to my reads

He doesn’t even know who’s voting him. Like what are you townreading him for?

how is that AI?

Because I don’t believe you can really be that dense. Missing Vedith/Fire flips is conceivable but 2 freaking votes on you? Nah.

cool story

[DoubtingThomas]

I don’t under how Brie is getting voted over DT? *smdh*

it's literally 3-3 if you consider the fact that brie didnt vote yet and one of the vote is my vote and brie will probably be self pressing anyways

stop fucking tilting me

[DoubtingThomas]

Good game all,

I feel like I definitely owe all of you guys more participation because I am usually a high poster. I don't believe I posted 331 times, but nonetheless, I don't think I am ever below #3 in post ranking in any game as either alignment when I try.

Kinda funny Krazy caught me in a meta that's not really true (I played really differently in the game I played against brassherald than I normally would for some reason), but still great job catching me Krazy, I rarely RARELY get lynched ever, especially as scum who would have teammates to help me out.

Everyone, imo, played really well. I know we dropped the topic, but I just want to reiterate

Nancy

You played very well and you carried us to end game, no doubt. But it's just not ethical to even mention the word "sub" because it would influence people's reading of the game in ways that it shouldn't. You've done this before and got banned, and I really hope you stop even mentioning. I know as town it's very very frustrating to be 'wrongly' scum read, but it is part of the game, and I think it brings you different challenges that changes the game up to be more fun in a way. It's just giving you an advantage that shouldn't be part of the game when you mention it, so it is good habit to just erase that word out of your vocabulary when you are playing forum mafia, imo. I don't think this should discredit the way you played very well this game and won it for us, but I want to see you grow up to be a

TRUE MAFIA PRODIGY

in the future winning without any controversy in the future.

Good luck on your next journey.

[DoubtingThomas]

question about set up:

As we've seen in Dance 1 this game, dance 1 essentially can become a useless stage because people might just vote no lynch

Is this somethnig you intended? I don't ever see a world scum would yololynch using 8 coins ever so why even have coins or dance 1?

[DoubtingThomas]

If you believe Nancy is scum, then you must also believe all the Nancy/DT interactions this game are scum theatre.