Mini 2059: Secrets of the Anuket Topaz [Over]

[skitter30]

b) dinging me for doing the same thing i did in prey is ... quite odd tbh, and i'm having some trouble wrapping my head around why you think that's odd/of-note.

because it lead to a bad outcome in Prey. that you're just sheeping again without seeming to consider that is strange to me. and that you find it weird i picked up on it is even stranger.

i mean, yeah, you were wrong but the outcome was ultimately that we lynched implosion? it wasn't a bad outcome

[skitter30]

c) i think that referring to me incorporating the currently nightless aspect of the game into my reads 'tmi' is ridiculous and borderline shading given that it's something that's in the mod's like third post of the game. of *course* that's going to influence how i approach the game, *especially* after jingle's game.

being paranoid of me for townreading you while you were being your town self is

ridiculous

.
and i know it'll influence you, i brought it up as a concern to talk about it,

and this is the second time you've dislike me simply

having

a thought.

the first was u2.

i mean that's how the game works ...?
like people judge each other for their thoughts; when yours don't seem townie to me i'm going to object

i honestly dont' remember rn what you said about u2; it's been like a bajillion pages since that happened

[skitter30]

But... If you were getting more invested because of that argument, then why did it feel like you were specifically trying to shut it down at the source? You didn't sound excited, you sounded insecure.

idk
i didn't feel insecure, i felt like i had something to argue about
i don't really feel like i was trying to shut it down at the source. maybe i came on kinda strong but i dont think that's at all the ame thing

[skitter30]

i don't know how confident i am in this scumread or if it's a bad idea.

i got this idea in my head that skitter is both a holistic and logical player, but i can't figure out where her head's at anymore. she can't lack this much self-awareness, can she? she's stated she's waiting for a townread on me to click like it did last time, to see if it will, and couldn't explain why.
but that thought process and what i know of skitter doesn't fit with her reaction to my change in read on her at all. it was certainly prompted by her posting. and when i did post those things i was thinking that town skitter would think about my motivation in doing so. because when i did do i wondered, if i was wrong i'm just going to make my already bad position an even worse one. skitter is very townread.

and if i was wrong, i would expect town skitter to wonder why scum Chara would do that on purpose. the only reason would really be to protect Brigitte, the inevitable lynch. but skitter isn't taking the wagon on Brigitte into account, nor is she looking at the scum motivation of my case.

so yeah. i don't know what to do about it but i don't townread her. her initial reply did make sense but it doesn't change the bad feeling i get. and i really do hate this if she's town.

i mean, i am still waiting to see if that townread will kinda happen

i *am* wondering if you're trying to protect brigitte actually (your unvote happened just after brigitte got to l-1, and it definitely cooled off the momentum of the wagon)

i've been kinda on your case all game about being paranoid of you so i was kinda wondering if you'd just decided to drop it and try to another tactic. *but*, i do agree that if you're scum this is fairly bad timing for this sort of push tho (unless you are indeed exactly scum with brigitte), and i am taking that into account; it's part of the reason why i'm not actually like voting you rn because you're right, there isn't motivation for you to do this *rn*, in that gamestate, if you're scum.

like i don't like your read on me but i'm not sure it's actually scum-indicative unless youa ctually are scum with brigitte but given that i, like, don't know if brigitte is scum scumreading you for pushing a wagon off of her before a flip happens seems kinda silly and premature

i am kinda wondering if i got into a tunneling thing fueled by paranoia, which is another reason why i'm not actually interested voting you
i do kinda think that this is the sort of read that gets better with time and/or more interactions

[skitter30]

skitter, your first two points are both "why are you scumreading me for this when i've done it before", and the fact that we've gone through it before is exactly why. i've gone through being paranoid of you before. you were town both times. i changed my approach to you accordingly.
you found this change scummy for some reason, but paranoia is paranoia so whatever.

i said i didn't like your sheeping, and you brought up our recent towngame as your defense of having done so before. except that time didn't work out, meaning we lost the game to the scum i convinced you to stop pushing. it just felt like you were justifying your actions with your own meta, but it didn't feel real because you supplemented what i consider a good explanation (lack of confidence in your scumreads) with one that felt more like an excuse.

idk
i dont' know how to let go of the paranoia. i know that it exists and i know that i was wrong before but like it's a factor in my read and i don't know how to just drop it . like it's there and it's a mitigating factor and it just isn't something i can just drop

i can ignore it to some extent by acknowledging it and saying that i know i was wrong before (which is what i'm trying to do) but like it's a factor that i need to take into account by virtue of the fact that it exists.

and the fact that the way that you're changing your approach to me in *this* game kinda looks how i think scum would approach this game makes it harder to ignore. in a regular game with nks i maybe wouldn't think about it this way, but that's not the game we're playing.

and the reason why i *am* willing to sheep here is because of the lack of confidence in my scumreads. if i had something i felt strongly i wouldn't be sheeping, i'd be pushing it and trying to get people to join me. i don't have a read like that rn, so i can't do that, so i'm doing the next best thing, which is to sheep someone i think is town on something *they're* feeling strongly about. and the reason why i'm confused you don't like this is because *you just saw me do this*. i mean, yeah, we didn't lynch varsoon because of it, but i don't consider it an inhernetly bad outcome because it did directly lead to lynching implosion; i'm not sure that interaction is like the reason we lost the game. like i was trying to explain that it was a really similar mindset for me

maybe i should be more cautious about sheeping people, sure. but when i don't know hwere to push otherwise like i'm not sure what else i should be doing rn. like i could unvote but then my vote would be dangling and it's like close to end of day and unvoting seems kinda pointless an i don't see much purpose to it. might as well help some other wagon be a thing instead of just sitting here and doing nothing.

i'm starting to think that the frustration you're having here is townie idk

[skitter30]

and for anyone who does care (because screw it, Ankamius likes talking about her own meta and i at least trust her here) i'm so far out of my scumrange right now i'm in space.

pedit: you noting this now doesn't help me, because you didn't bring it up until i did. your responses before didn't mention Brigitte nor my lack of scum motivation in doing this. some of that might be my fault in jumping the gun. i don't know.

yeah i was aware of the optics of that when i wrote it, don't worry. i was kinda busy today and didn't really get all my thoughts out but theyr'e like there, and i do want to document them for the record; i'm aware that saying it after you said it looks bad

ok

why are you out of your scumrange?

[skitter30]

At this point apathy is going to push my wagon to the finish line. I can foresee the future.

bleh this is kinda townie too

UNVOTE:

idk i'm kinda confused and my reads are bad rn and i think i need to take a hard-reset to this game

i'm townreading too many people and not scumreading enough people and i'm very confused where scum are

[skitter30]

At this point apathy is going to push my wagon to the finish line. I can foresee the future.

bleh this is kinda townie too

UNVOTE:

idk i'm kinda confused and my reads are bad rn and i think i need to take a hard-reset to this game

i'm townreading too many people and not scumreading enough people and i'm very confused where scum are

i think this really only comes from scum if:
a) all her partners are lurkers and/or have no influence
and
b) she has no interest in trying to get the wagon off of herself

lack it just belies a complete lack of survivalism that i usuallly associate with scum

[skitter30]

i think survivalims is pretty reliably a scumtell actually

and yeah, i do think b) could just be a personality thing but it also indicates that all of your partners are just completely awol imo because otherwise i'd kinda expect you to be hoping that they'd help get the wagon off of you

also i think if you're scum you *probably* wouldn't be arguing with me about it?

[skitter30]

like hoping/expecting them to help move the wagon but it's pretty obvious you have no expectation of that happening

so like if you're scum it's with a completely lurker and/or uninfluential scumteam imo

[skitter30]

i think over the last page or so town!you finally clicked (maybe?)
i need to think about it i think

[skitter30]

i think survivalims is pretty reliably a scumtell actually

and yeah, i do think b) could just be a personality thing but it also indicates that all of your partners are just completely awol imo because otherwise i'd kinda expect you to be hoping that they'd help get the wagon off of you

also i think if you're scum you *probably* wouldn't be arguing with me about it?

I can't even. I am going to do self meta here and say if I was scum I would be telling my partners to bus me.

they're not tho (unless they're on the wagon already but i townread most of the people on it)

[skitter30]

i guess my point is that i think if you were scum you'd be manufacturing something to push instead of just sticking with being apathetic
or if you wanted ot just wait for the inevitable your partners would be bussign you but i don't see that happening either

[skitter30]

eh fair (although i don't think i saw that vote when i started saying this)
again i also don't know if you'd be trying to talk me out of this reasoning if you're scum here so

[skitter30]

elbirn do you like scum or town more?

[skitter30]

yep

[skitter30]

Idk

I'm a little weirded out that he's complaining that nobody reached out to him after the previous time he'd posted when i responded to him and gave him something in particular to look at like three posts later

[skitter30]

the elbirn wagon was: brigitte, chara, xtoxm, nimueh

am i missing anyone?
my gut says that there's prob scum in the elbirn voters, probably in this order of likeliness: nimueh > brigitte = chara > xtoxm
(i think nimueh's vote is quite bad actually)

==

elbirn's reaction to his wagon was quite townie imo; not really vibing a wagon there rn

==

kinda want tris
or nimueh
==

What happens if we no lynch? It's not like anyone's gonna get shot. I actually don't see the point of a deadline in this game at all

if we no-lynch and there's no nk tomorow night we're in the exact same place tomorrow with no flips and like .... i don't see the point and i odn't want a rehash of today; it's been going on forever with nothing conclusive happening

==

Succinct replaces Enter.

hello!

==

Chara's reads list makes a lot of the null-scum reads she's been getting make more sense

Something about skitter's approach to this game being nightless pinged me but that was from a morning skim and I don't really rsmber what it was but i still think theyre town

I found it amusing gave so much towncred to Brigitte both being anti-survivalist and then her debating that read.

what does this mean

==

VOTE: tris

i might switch to nimueh idk; none of the current wagons (2+ votes) are really vibing with me rn

[skitter30]

Actually

Wait why are we voting tris and not nim? Would seem to be the conclusion to your post, skitter

A) this has been mentioned before but i have issues playing with nim for *reasons* and would not have joined the game if i knew what her main was - i dont know how much my dislike for her posting is being influenced by that (ie i can't tell rn if i dont like her posts because they're scummy or because i'm biased against them because of out of game reasons)

B) ank (who i understand has more history with her than i do) says she's being townie for her

C) my gut says tris is a better vote rn

You’re seriously sr me for that?

I’m amused that you strongly tr anyone for that reason specificall

y. Do I really need to find games to debunk that theory?

I dislike your vote; it's not the main reason i would vote you tho, more that your tone feels weird/wrong to me, and again, idk if that's actually ai for you here.

Idk what the bolded is referring to

==

@Skitter , my point being that it isn’t a good reason to tr anyone solely on them acting anti-survivalist and/or debating it with you.

So, how exactly is that scummy?

I think that was townie of brigitte; i don't know why me thinking this amuses you (ie amusement is a strange reaction to me giving a reason for townreading someone)

I asked you what you were referring to there - i never said, or implied, that i found that statement specifically scummy. Dont put words in my mouth.

==

2046

A) not sure why you think i'd 'undoubtedly' find any vote you make scummy given that i've never said anything of the sort and i don't think there's any basis for this conclusion from my posting

B) you're using that premise - that i'd find all/any of your votes scummy - as an excuse to not vote and/or sheep people and absolve yourseld of the responsibility of deciding where to vote

C) the last line is a hyperbolic over-reaction to someone *not* voting you

==

2055

Yep, i agree - me *not* voting someone is indicative that i'm trying to mislynch them, good job.

==
!remind me to talk ablut your reasoning for your elbirn vote - i have more i wanna say but i gotta bounce

[skitter30]

I keep forgetting flubber is in this game, but i would vote him too

[skitter30]

I think I just need flips to be able to sort any more, my mind is jumbled irt this game

Yeah basically. I'm just making a list of people i dont townread and want to flip one of them

[skitter30]

Not much time to post, but skitter is a strong townread, and it should be easier for everyone else to see now why Nim and Brig are scum.

So that means you couldn’t possibly be wrong then?

She was a strong tr in that game I just linked too, that’s how she won.

no offense, but given that i'm quite good at obvtowning when i'm, like, town, telling people to be wary of me by virtue of the fact that i got townread in a scumgame is dumb given that i get townread as both alignments

==

Couldn't Brigitte have acted like she did to give the appearances that she doesn't care about getting lynched. If that's what she was trying to do, it seems to have worked,

That was my point, that it wasn’t a valid reason for Skitter to locktown her on and her defensiveness to my pointing that out is pinging me, amongst other things.

I didn’t sr Enter because it felt like he really believed in his sr on me. I’m obviously a lot more suspicious of NMSA - mainly because of the absurd me/Brigitte linking but his push on me still sounds more believable to me, than Skitter’s. Skitter seems to me to be looking for reasons to push me. This becomes super obvious, when you compare her reads on me with someone like Chara, who clearly lacks any agenda wrt his read on me is concerned.

a) i didn't locktown brigitte, don't misrep me

b) i'm not looking for reasons to push you

==

I'm only seeing one subtle difference from her play in that game to the town game I saw from her recently and that same metric doesn't fit this game.

(i'd be kinda interested in hearing more about this (maybe in like post-game or whatever) because i think those two games are quite different actually)

==

Skitter is pushing a sr on me partially based on this vote. Chara along with Tris, are amongst the people she seems to be pushing. I’m suspicious of her, because she seems to be sr me on a for a lot of NAI reasons, including this vote and earlier she jumped on me re: the Reck L-1 thing. In a nutshell, despite at her own admission not having “confident” reads, she immediately jumps on things she should either view as NAI or questioning me about, instead of immediately jumping to a sc of me. Her disregarding the reads of someone, who otoh, does actually have a confident read on me - Ankamius - is very concerning to me.

a) i acknowledged i could be scumreading you for nai reasons, which is why i'm not, like, voting you, given that i don't know if i actualy scumread your or not. not sure why your'e characterizing me as jumping on you or trying to lynch you given that i said i might want to vote you but *chose not to*, and the fact that i'm like dancing around committing to scumreading you because i for the life of me can't tell whether or not my read is actually based on things that have happened in this game.

b) yes, when i cite ank's read on you as a reason why i'm not voting you i am disregarding ank's read, that makes a lot of sense

==

not really townreading creature yet
tris wagon is kinda gross actually

ngl one of the reasons i started it was to see if *that* would gain some momentum given that the four previous wagons were all pretty stagnant and the fact that a bunch of sketchy people (and/or people i don't really have reads on) voted there is kinda meh

tris(5) ~ skitter30(221), Brigitte(240), Elbirn(217), Creature(36), Flubbernugget(78)

so i know i'm town
pretty sure elbirn is town

don't have good reads on brigitte or creature or flubber
i'd probably rank them best to worst as brigitte >>> creature > flubber
but like this is not such a clean wagon

the brigitte one is still pretty pure

Brigitte(4) ~ Ankamius(304), tris(119), xRECKONERx(124), Xtoxm(255)

i like everyone on here except maybe tris herself
xtoxm i'm kinda null on but urap was obvtown so that's fine

i'll probably switch to brigitte but i'm going to finish catching up first

==

I like my company on the Brigitte wagon way more than the tris wagon, it looks suspicious as hell to me

oh yeah i agree with this

==

i've come around to town!chara i think

==

yeah i'm caught up
UNVOTE:

the speed/sketchiness of the tris wagon is weirding me out and i don't like the people voting on it
my gut says brigitte isn't scum tho, but it's a much better wagon

p-edit and succinct was enter right?
it's a townie wagon but i dont' think brigitte is scum; i don't think scum says they'll self-hammer

[skitter30]

That is L-1.
I will self hammer tomorrow.

like this isn't a scummy reaction imo

[skitter30]

Creature > skitter30 > tris = Ankamius > Nimueh > Xtoxm = xRECKONERx = NotMySpamAccount = Elbirn = Chara (need more on all of these) > Flubbernugget = Brigitte

boy am i interested in hearing more about these (specifically: me, creature, chara, nimueh, and tris)

[skitter30]

i don't know

[skitter30]

it started ~my argument with you (last night? two nights ago) and then i read your posts today just now and they felt townie
i don't know why/how that changed

[skitter30]

p-edit and succinct was enter right?

Correct.

That is L-1. I will self hammer tomorrow.

like this isn't a scummy reaction imo

Agreed, but is it a town reaction?

it's not a scummy one tho
i don't know if it's townie but it isn't scummy, and pushing 'not-townie' == 'scummy' is fallacious

[skitter30]

or, that's not quite wha tyou pushed, sorry, but pushing someone on the basis of their actions not being townie (when it's agreed tehy also aren't scummy) is awful imo

[skitter30]

bleh i have a whole rant about this but i was typing fast and didn't really hit most of the nuances

basically i really, really, really hate it when people get pushed on the basis of not being townie (especially day1); i don't think that not being townie is at all the same thing as being scummy

i don't think that not being scummy is quite the same thing as being townie either

but offering to self-vote .... i just dont' see coming from scum here really

pedit i don't type that fast

[skitter30]

boy am i interested in hearing more about these (specifically: me, creature, chara, nimueh, and tris)

Creature's scumgame's not this good.
You said it yourself:

given that i'm quite good at obvtowning when i'm, like, town

tris's content's fine and the wagon's suspect.
Nimueh's stances vaguely look town.
Chara I lack sufficient data right now.

Will update these as appropriate.

i don't think that creature's broken out of his scumrange yet, actually
i'm chalking at least part of that up to being a replacement and giving him a bit of a pass but it ends at the start of tomorrow

that quote about me is literally from a sentence where i said that i'm good at looking townie as scum so that's also a bad reason to townread me

i also have no idea how well you know my playstyle but like if you don't know me trusting my word on that also seems like a bad idea

i kinda gutscum read all of tris's posts but i don't know if that's a playstyle thing
i agree that the wagon is gross tho

kinda disagree on nimueh but eh

[skitter30]

(i'd be kinda interested in hearing more about this (maybe in like post-game or whatever) because i think those two games are quite different actually)

I'd be interested in a discussion on discord or something at some point

I kinda feel like we share some idiosyncrasies but I still find you weirdly hard to read

sounds like fun, remind me postgame!

[skitter30]

Not my intention. My meaning was Brigitte's suspicious; one post not being scummy's not enough to change that, unless it's sufficiently strongly town-indicative, thus my question; was it a town reaction? If it's nai, then it doesn't change prior scumminess.

it's pretty close to being a sufficiently townie reaction to me; i'm still like processing it but that's the side i'm landing on
her whole approach to her wagon and just doesn't feel liek scum to me
she's also been actively sorting people in the meanwhile (see the convo with chara two pages ago); if she's scum who can see the inevitable approaching i'm not sure that convo like happens

[skitter30]

i mean tbf i just made a similar argument

[skitter30]

ngl i still kinda think that's town but i guess it doesn't actually, like, matter anymore

[skitter30]

that quote about me is literally from a sentence where i said that i'm good at looking townie as scum so that's also a bad reason to townread me
i also have no idea how well you know my playstyle but like if you don't know me trusting my word on that also seems like a bad idea

I have experience with you.

You're good at obvtowning as town.
You're good at "obvtowning" as scum, but this isn't that; it's the former, not latter.

yeah i'm *pretty* sure i know who you are
so i guess the thread is iminently going to get locked probably so i'd like to pick this up tomorrow and/or daystart or whatever

[skitter30]

brigiitte any final reads you'd like to share?
read on ank in particular?

[skitter30]

I think Ank is town and a dumbass.

I think you should all review tris tomorrow because I really find nothing to townread from tris.
I think you all use and push very bad arguments so my hope and chances for town is low.

But at this point, I am so happy to be free.

yeah i'll go through the wagon tomorrow

[skitter30]

huh that's one of the reads i'm reconsidering actually

[skitter30]

That is L-1.
I will self hammer tomorrow.

like this isn't a scummy reaction imo

Agree it isn't.

How was Brigette wagon revived?

it had been at four votes for like a week? (ank, tris, xtoxm, reck)
chara and succint voted in the last couple of hours
brigitte self-hammered

i was on it for a while i'm pretty sure too

[skitter30]

creature is still sketchy imo
i'm pretty sure this is flipping town tbh

chara's town
elbirn i think is probably town
urap2 was town so xtoxm is town but he himself is kinda null
enter was townie iirc but i don't super much on succint
i lost my townread on reck at some point
ank townread i think is still there

i don't have a read on flubber really
tris i think is quite a lot scummier in the event of a brigitte townflip

nimueh idk
and i'm blanking on someone but i don't remember who it is offhand

[skitter30]

creature is still sketchy imo
i'm pretty sure this is flipping town tbh

chara's town
elbirn i think is probably town
urap2 was town so xtoxm is town but he himself is kinda null
enter was townie iirc but i don't super much on succint
i lost my townread on reck at some point
ank townread i think is still there

i don't have a read on flubber really
tris i think is quite a lot scummier in the event of a brigitte townflip

nimueh idk
and i'm blanking on someone but i don't remember who it is offhand

Yes hello you're blanking on me.

right, sorry
i don't have a read on you either, probably tending to nullscum

your wagon from like a bajillion years ago prob had scum on it; i'm gong to repeat that until i have enough info to follow that thread

[skitter30]

maybe the nks turn back on when we lynch scum, idk

i have to at some point go back and look at the circumstances of the votes on the brigitte wagon but off the cuff if there's scum on there i'd guess it to be between: {reck/tris/succint}

kinda want to do this for now until i sort out how i feel about the brigitte/tris wagons

VOTE: flubber
i have like no read on him and can't really remember much of anything he's said this game

[skitter30]

maybe the nks turn back on when we lynch scum, idk

i have to at some point go back and look at the circumstances of the votes on the brigitte wagon but off the cuff if there's scum on there i'd guess it to be between: {reck/tris/succint}

kinda want to do this for now until i sort out how i feel about the brigitte/tris wagons

VOTE: flubber
i have like no read on him and can't really remember much of anything he's said this game

Skitters post to start the day feels a bit out of place too for some reason

Mmmmmmm I kind of thought that too, mostly re: "wowie where's the NK?", but I dont know that scum says this because I'd assume they'd be particularly aware that theres no NK coming up if night phases arent happening yet.

And I dont like that she votes flubber after positing scum in reck/tris/succinct

Do you see something else here or have I covered your thoughts more or less?

the entire post just feels... weird

it's setup spec

followed by saying that there may be scum in half the lynch wagon

then instead of sorting them, uses her vote to try to sort somebody else...?

like those are thoughts that make sense but the way they're ordered and written feels a lot more like she didn't have a whole lot to say but felt compelled to put more down on the page

it doesn't fit the context of what her thought processes have looked like to me

the lack of night reminded me that at some point that it had occurred to me that maybe the nks will turn on after scum flips but i never wrote that anywhere so i just put it there. also i'm low-key wondering if the game has more than the usual number of scum

(ie the ambiguous wincon and lack of nk's are reminding me quite a bit of jingle's game from a couple months back)

to figure out exactly where scum is on the wagon, i need to go back and look at how/when the wagon formed, but i haven't had a chance to do that yet, and don't think i will for another couple of days. off the top of my head / from what i remember without going back to check, those three votes were worse than the other three votes, and those are the ones i'm going to pay especial attention to whenever i do get the chance to check how that wagon formed.

and my vote was dangling for far too much of day1 so until i figure out if i want to vote on the wagon i wanted to put it *somewhere* and i keep forgetting flubber exists so i decided to start there today

basically what i'm saying is that i need to relook at the brigitte wagon before i firm up my opinion on the votes on that wagon, but since that isn't going to happen for a couple of days, i want to do something with my vote so i decided in the meanwhile to start tackling another part of the game that i also need to work on.

i have no idea what 'it doesn't fit the context of what her thought processes have looked like to me' means so i can't address that , really

[skitter30]

@mod

semi v/la until ~monday - i'm moving again this weekend

[skitter30]

Plenty of slots that don't immediatelly strike me as town in the Brig wagon as opposed to tris wagon.

which ones?

[skitter30]

had you read any of urap2's posts?
i agree that xtoxm himself is null/meh but urap2 was pretty obvtown and that's what i'm basing the read on

i had a townread on reck at some point but it was long enough ago that i kinda forgot why and i don't really townread him anymore

[skitter30]

Jingle's setup went open. Makes no sense to replicate it closed

it isn't replicated, obviously. there is no night here at all, there scum were suiciding overnight

but the ambiguous wincon coupled with lack of nks remind me of that game tho

[skitter30]

Urap2 being obvtown and chara sitting around null-scum make no sense in the same game

if this is directed at me i don't know why those don't make sense together
(and chara has gone up quite a bit in myreads, but that only happened recently)

[skitter30]

i have no idea what 'it doesn't fit the context of what her thought processes have looked like to me' means so i can't address that , really

the timing, really

this still doesn't really mean anything to me, sorry

Also makes no sense to throw down a vote you're admitting is useless

i wouldn't really classify it as useless (and i don't think i called it useless either), more that the vote is kinda like a side-thing that i'm exploring while i'm putting the more time-consuming stuff on hold for a few days

[skitter30]

Jingle's setup went open. Makes no sense to replicate it closed

it isn't replicated, obviously. there is no night here at all, there scum were suiciding overnight

but the ambiguous wincon coupled with lack of nks remind me of that game tho

it's an interesting idea if nothing else. but just for speculation. much like Jingle's game, ultimately lynching scum is probably the goal.

i mean, yes. i'm just noting it reminds me of that game

and hi!

[skitter30]

the turn around on nmsa was incredibly townie and i don't think it comes from scum

his very very early game and how he pushed nmsa was also pretty townie and nuanced and i don't think scum!him pushes a mislynch that way (or lolbusses a partner that way) or says things like 'if he flips town i know i'm the lynch tomorrow' (which he said repeatedly) - if scum!him is aware enough of the gamestate that he knows that a mislynch would result in his own lynch i odn't think he's confident enough to push it as aggressively as he did, and the whole push started too early and was too hard to be a bus (and the turn-around on nmsa didn't happen at the time i feel like it would have if it had been a bus)

mindmelding at various points of the game (esp. wrt the ank/brigitte thing)

there was probably more but if there is it happened long enough ago that i'm blanking

[skitter30]

i kinda feel like they're taking advantage of the super-fast gamestate and the many loud personalities head-butting to slide under the radar
there's a lot of slots that are just kinda there and not really doing anything and i feel like scum is probably in that group; that's why i want to make a specific effort to sort them today

[skitter30]

Do you think that reads shift was manufactured the way it was on purpose?

i did at the time. i never really stopped considering it either. i've had major bad feelings about u2 since the game started, but for a few reasons decided my gut was probably wrong. i think in a large part that was because i was townreading skitter, and she pushed against my suspicions.
i don't know if it means anything or not but it's relevant to reading skitter now, i think.

pedit: when would it have happened if it had been a bus?

iirc the turn-around happened after the momentum for the wagon died down and nmsa was not imminently getting lynched
there had been a time earlier where nmsa was really really close to getting lynched and if urap2 wanted to distance but not bus (ie he didn't want his push to end up in an actual lynch) i feel like the turnaround would have happened there

the wagon had already lost most of it's momentum when he changed his read
if he was scum bussing i feel like he would have committed to the read and seen through a lynch, or tried to stave off the momentum when it was imminently looking like he'd be lynched; changing his mind at that juncture, when the momentum had cooled down already on it's own, is a weird point for scum to shift a read like that given the gamestate

[skitter30]

i kinda feel like they're taking advantage of the super-fast gamestate and the many loud personalities head-butting to slide under the radar
there's a lot of slots that are just kinda there and not really doing anything and i feel like scum is probably in that group; that's why i want to make a specific effort to sort them today

What specifically changed from your feeling that scum weren't all in the lurkers?

the fact that i'm still townreading most of the active posters and scum has to be somewhere

(also the group of active posters has changed, i should probably mention that.
like i was townreading enter but i don't really classify succint as being an active poster, and that slot is now in that nebulous category where i need more from them)

[skitter30]

i gotta bounce, and *probably* won't be able to post until like sunday morning
apologies in advance

[skitter30]

Urap2 being obvtown and chara sitting around null-scum make no sense in the same game

if this is directed at me i don't know why those don't make sense together
(and chara has gone up quite a bit in myreads, but that only happened recently)

They don't make sense together because both slots had the same habit of making a lot of interaction posts that look townie in a bubble but not from them were not able to generate good reads.

i read this a few times and i'm having trouble parsing what you're saying tbh. i *think* you're saying that you think they both made interaction posts that look townie but had awful reads so their interaction posts ought not to form the basis of the reads on them. is that right? i'm also not sure what you mean by interaction posts in this context actually

why do you think neither of them formed good reads?

urap's reads might not have been great (idk) but his thought process behidn them was incredibly townie
chara's readslists also weren't awesome but there were large swaths of the game where i was having trouble telling vibing with their thought process (or, at least, had trouble telling if they were having a genuine thought process), which made it hard for me to form a confident read on them

[skitter30]

I wouldn't say it was incredibly townie, just a bit townie. It feels like you're trying to take advantage of game length and the replace-out to defend yourself by tring a general(?) townread.

it was incredibly townie, and it's a read i've had since like page30, or whenever it happened, so saying i'm giving a popular read just now to defend myself in the present is kinda silly, esepcially as i'm saying it when others are questioning their reads on the slot - if i'm trying to conform my read to others, as you're suggesting, now is not the right time to reaffirm my townread on him

[skitter30]

the entire post just feels... weird

it's setup spec

followed by saying that there may be scum in half the lynch wagon

then instead of sorting them, uses her vote to try to sort somebody else...?

like those are thoughts that make sense but the way they're ordered and written feels a lot more like she didn't have a whole lot to say but felt compelled to put more down on the page

it doesn't fit the context of what her thought processes have looked like to me

I still don’t buy her reasons for sr me. Her reasons, both based on my Reck L-1 thing and later Elbirn vote, seemed over reachy to me. I also really dislike all of her Ankamius’ NK comments. It makes me think she is thinking about you being NK’d alot. She very likely would have hard pushed a wagon on me, if it weren’t for you. I think she dialed that back down because it would look suspicious after your obvtown read on me.

do you not understand the concept that i'm not interested in pushing you right now, and that i'm not actively pushing you right now ....? (largely for out of game reasons tbh)

and yeah, i said i don't think i can be objective in reading you, so when ank said she thought you were quite townie i dropped it. i haven't pushed you since then

[skitter30]

Mmmmmmm I kind of thought that too, mostly re: "wowie where's the NK?", but I dont know that scum says this because I'd assume they'd be particularly aware that theres no NK coming up if night phases arent happening yet.

And I dont like that she votes flubber after positing scum in reck/tris/succinct

Do you see something else here or have I covered your thoughts more or less?

I try not to be hyper-critical of posts that vote for me but I'm glad I'm not the only one that

I think it’s kind of hypocritical of her to jump on me for my reads/votes and do something like that. I don’t really sense a lot of conviction on any of her reads and is throwing her vote anywhere.

I initially thought her whole survivalist thing with Brigitte may have been townie post-flip but I think it could have also been scum wk for towncred post-flip, I suppose.

yes, do explain why it's hypocritical
i'm not throwing my vote anywhere, there's only a group of like ~5 people that i'd even consider voting today

i don't think scum!me actively pushes against the brigitte wagon there either tbh

[skitter30]

So why vote Flubber then as opposed to just waiting with your vote?

... and what would the point of not voting be?

[skitter30]

Also makes no sense to throw down a vote you're admitting is useless

The only good reason to ever vote a null read, is if either your tr everyone else or you want to avoid a no lynch.

not really but ok

[skitter30]

Switch trisElbirn and we're on same page.

i'm pretty sure elbirn is town and why do you want tris taken out of the poe?

[skitter30]

you've repeatedly said that i'm pushing you and that i might be trying to mislynch you, when i'm demonstrably doing neither of those things.

what i *did* do was articulate an unconfident scumread on you and say that i might want to vote you at some point. i've not really pushed you since, yet you keep acting like i'm actively pushing you or trying ot get you mislynched, and you're ignoring me pointing out that i'm doing neither

i agree that i'm not townreading you, but me saying that i might vote you at some point is not remotely the same thing as actively pushing you

I’m still confused as to how oog things makes you more likely to see my play as more likely scummy. Maybe that’s the problem? I’m just not really getting it. But I’ll do my best to try to give you the benefit of the doubt on that for now. However, that doesn’t mean I won’t confront you on a read on me I find questionable, suspicious or flatout disagree with. That’s the best I can do.

i have a lot of issues with your playing style and it makes me dislike your posts on some fundemental level. i don't know how to ignore that when trying to sort your slot - i don't know if i dislike your posts because of last game or because i'm scumreading them, so i'm kinda stuck in an ambiguous limbo that i don't know how to parse

so while, yes, i don't like your posts, but i'm not going all in rn because i don't know what the source of that dislike is or if it's actually ai
like i said, i dropped it when ank said she was townreading you because i'm not confident in it - you keep bringing up my read on you, not me.

I didn’t like your votepark on Flubber but the main reason is that you seem to be holding me to a different standard then yourself. I mean it’s fair but but it definitely makes me more suspicious of you then I would have been otherwise. I nevertheless find that vote weird regardless. Obviously not enough to vote you for it.

i don't know what standard you think i'm holding you to here or why doing so is hypocritical of me.

Once I actually get to play with scum!you, I’d actually know if I would agree with that or not. Is that fair?

yes. i don't think you ought to take my word for it

So why vote Flubber then as opposed to just waiting with your vote?

... and what would the point of not voting be?

If you don’t have a reason. If it’s near EOD and you don’t want to no lynch, that obviously doesn’t apply.

i don't really see the point of not voting rn, it's kind of a waste of my vote at this stage

i agree that i don't have a strong reason to vote him. i also don't have a read on him and i'm hoping that doing so will help me sort him.

i'm also kinda intersted in the fact that a wagon seems to be building on him

[skitter30]

Elbirn read's complicated.
He looks different from last time where he was town, but I'm also cautious; I misread him as being scum last time.

idk he looks town to me
i don't really have a read on tris

[skitter30]

Also another question

What do you think about me believing you are trying to pocket me this game

ngl i'm paranoid about succinct doing that to me here too

[skitter30]

I'm part of the stagnancy unfortunately.

i kinda think creature might be scum tbh

[skitter30]

yeah but i don't know how to tell the difference so it's not helping me read you

[skitter30]

This is rapidly looking like Nimueh was the scum I wrongfully townread

This is a scumtell

oh cool
VOTE: nimueh

[skitter30]

i don't remember him townlocking brigitte actually

[skitter30]

This is rapidly looking like Nimueh was the scum I wrongfully townread

This is a scumtell

oh cool
VOTE: nimueh

Welcome to another mislynch. Creature is probably another one.

are you insinuating that i'm broadly pushing mislynches in this game?
(remember, i pushed *against* the brigitte wagon as it was building the last time around?)

a *major* reason i wasn't voting you was cuz ank was townreading you cuz i think she can read you better than i can. if she's not townreading you that no longer applies

[skitter30]

i mean she's been doing that for a while in that she's been acting like i was pushing an imminent lynch on her since end of day1-ish when i said that i might vote her at some point in the future (when nobody else was voting her, mind you) and then dropped it

[skitter30]

actually there may have been one vote on her at that time, but there definitely weren't more than that

[skitter30]

fair enough, i didnt remember those posts

[skitter30]

[skitter30]

i know, my point is that she was over-reacting to something that was a non-issue - she was acting as if i was about to get her lynched when she shouldn't have felt threatened there at all since there was *at most* one vote on her + me saying that i might vote her in the future

[skitter30]

Why the ? You have been looking for any opportunity that vote me, so why shouldn’t I find this not at all suspicious?

Ankamius hasn’t changed her vote on me, so you can’t even consider it sheeping.

But I am legit frustrated that I have to choose between proving my alignment and risking being outted, because there is no way I would ever be mislynched here if I did. Meh

uh i'm not looking for any reason to vote you; i'm voting you because one of the main reasons i *wasn't* no longer applies
calling it an easy or oppurtunistic vote in this context is silly
no, ank did not vote you just now, you're right, but she's pretty obviously questioning her read on you

[skitter30]

i'm around for a bit; catching up now

[skitter30]

i know, my point is that she was over-reacting to something that was a non-issue - she was acting as if i was about to get her lynched when she shouldn't have felt threatened there at all since there was *at most* one vote on her + me saying that i might vote her in the future

ngl i kinda want to vote nimueh; she feels really flat here for her and

i'm kinda surprised that she's not scumreading enter here tbh

pedit

WHY ARE YOU ASKING MY OPINION!!!!!!

Oh really? Please explain the bolded then and how you can make this current post, when you previously sr me for NOT omgussing Enter.

You can’t have it BOTH ways Skitter. You can’t sr for under-reacting to Enter push and sr to overreacting to your vote on me. Which one is it?

a) i wasn't scumreading you for not omgus'ing enter; i was expressing surprise, which is not the same thing as scumreading you - don't conflate the two

b) you have a tendency to over-react to things, yes, and to snap-omgus people for scumreading you. acting like i was imminently lynching you seemed like an over-reaction even for you, which is why i was bringing it up. i don't know you well enough, and haven't played with you enough, to have a feel for what's a 'normal' overreaction for you and what's a weird/scummy over-reaction for you

[skitter30]

@nim can you just list the significant things/posts you want me to respond to?

[skitter30]

Why the ? You have been looking for any opportunity that vote me, so why shouldn’t I find this not at all suspicious?

Ankamius hasn’t changed her vote on me, so you can’t even consider it sheeping.

But I am legit frustrated that I have to choose between proving my alignment and risking being outted, because there is no way I would ever be mislynched here if I did. Meh

uh i'm not looking for any reason to vote you; i'm voting you because one of the main reasons i *wasn't* no longer applies

calling it an easy or oppurtunistic vote in this context is silly

no, ank did not vote you just now, you're right, but she's pretty obviously questioning her read on you

Silly or just fact?

For all I know, Ankamius may not even be sr me at all but seeing who takes the bait and jumps on me, like you suddenly did. I don’t believe you think I’m the most obvious sr in this game and yes I do consider your vote on me opportunistc. Why? Because you have clearly been ignoring any posts that point away from my bring scum here and you immediately voting me, the second Ankamius expresses even the slightest doubt, pings me hard.

a) it's pretty apparent that's not what ank was/is doing
b) it's not oppurtunistic in the context of my previous reasons for voting/not-voting you ffs; you're acting like i just randomly threw down a vote out of nowhere when in fact i voted *because the reason i was not-voting no longer applies*

[skitter30]

@Skitter, why did you unvote here? You had previouly pushing both Tris and me, then you don’t vote for anyone why? Especially since you were att townreading Brigitte? You recently voted Flubber before you opportunistically jumped on me but yet no EOD vote at all? How do you account for this?

maybe the timestamps between when i unvoted and when brigitte self-voted might account for this, who knows

[skitter30]

Skitter's new vote is even more bizarre than their previous one

do tell

[skitter30]

Skitter's new vote is even more bizarre than their previous one

Yeah, she keeps on insisting that she isn’t opportunistically voting me and pushing for my mislynch and seems to act offended, when I point out the obvious but I’ve played with town!Skitter and

she actually wrestles with her votes and doesn’t confibias slots like she is here.

And her reason for previously voting you makes absolutely no sense, considering her not making any vote at the EOD 1.

please please please please please don't pull something like on me again, there's a reason why i don't want to play with you ffs, and why i've asked you to stay out of my games, and inadvertently signing up for a game wiht you because you decided you wanted to play on a secret alt but keeping the same playing style has not made this an enjoyable experience for me in the slightest.

i've repeatedly said i can't read your posts, and that actually trying to sort you wrt your alignment is ridiculously hard because i hate reading your posts and i hate trying to sort through the emotional tilting thing you do, and that reading it makes me incredibly uncomfortable and like actually fucks with my head/emotions irl

so yeah, i might be conf-biased to hate all of your posts (which i admitted to like 80 pages ago or whatever) but i don't know what you want me to do about it when you know about my feelings and like *put me in this situation* anyways

maybe i should be more diplomatic or whatever like i was last time but i'm starting to lose patience and i don't know how else to get my message across since you're like misreading/ignoring everything i say

i said your posts felt scummy. i acknowledged it might have been for out-of-games reasons so i dropped it when someone else who i think can read you better said she thought you were town; i figured they had a better/more unbiased read on you than i do most of the time. if they no longer think that i don't see a reason not to vote you

[skitter30]

oh ffs
yeah i'm going to take a break from responding to your posts, sorry, you're pissing me off too much

[skitter30]

especially since i can't even respond to that without like explicitly linking last game

[skitter30]

creature is pinging me bc of the whole "oh man ah geez i just cant get into this game" which when you're a replacement is kinda underwhelming and lets you hide. coupled with WHO creature replaced (tictac) and the fact tictac contributed fuckall and only had 12 posts, and that slot needs way more hard content.

elbirn i think is town bc the vote hops look kinda natural and the way he ran the fuck away from the brig wagon when, as scum, he could've replaced in and left his vote there while he "caught up" to push the wagon forward

i agree with both of these

[skitter30]

VOTE: Brigitte
the more i think about it, the more i think this is a better lynch. skitter's argument for Brigitte's lack of survivalism/arguing against the townread is a sound one but i get the feeling that Brigitte considers the arguments she's made to be soundly NAI and would have made them regardless.

but her last three votes have all been PoE scumreads and pretty safe bets at the time she made them. i absolutely buy town being in that position but i think what i was townreading from Brigitte was NAI.

i don't find tris towny either and i probably will have to end up hammering that by the end of the day. (i think we have about a day left?)
but it's something for me to consider tomorrow at least. of the two i like this more. tris has this gut feeling recently of being strangely awkward which could be newbscum or could just be a newish sort of feeling. Brigitte i think is more aware of her own play.

pedit: already chose.

The vote precedes two points on brigette being NAI and a setup to still get tris lynched if that were to become convenient. I think this is a perfect illustration of what I was trying to get at when I said chara's posting looks good in a vacuum. This vote really didn't bring any suspicion to chara at all, but it really should have.

why exactly are you voting succinct?

[skitter30]

@mod

please replace me

there's a lot that i want to say that, but i won't

[skitter30]

ank's town,
chara's town i think
still think enter's slot is town although succinct has been meh
urap was townie, xtoxm has been making me lose the read because he's been doing nothign

flubber is scummy
elbirn is townie for him i think
nmsa is scummy? not sure
creature i think might be scum

don't really have a read on reck or tris

sorry, i hate doing this, but i really can't play with her and it's starting to fuck with my head again and i don't think continuing this argument is good for me or the game
shutting up now

[skitter30]

hello i've spoken with nsg and i'm un-replacing-out
i'm probably not going to be engaging with nimueh tho

UNVOTE:

[skitter30]

hi

[skitter30]

i've been kinda vaguely reading along so i have a general gist of what's been happening since ~sunday night but i'm reading it again now

[skitter30]

is there something in particular you want me to respond to and/or look at?

[skitter30]

i don't think Creature is scum here. if there's a good argument i'll listen,

but being underwhelming on a replace in a big game isn't a scumtell.

i can see his thought process well enough, and i've played with Creature enough that at this point i think i can tell how he's feeling about a game.

i mean, sure, but it's been like ... a week since he repped in? maybe longer? and he's still being underwhelming

[skitter30]

it's such a weird read, the more i think about it, really. i don't think u2 and i have played this game in a similar way at all, and the only similarity was that we both happen to be chatty. it's a strange categorization and criticism of skitter's reads in a way that doesn't feel like anything beyond surface level.

yeah i agree
it was such a weird response to my reads on you/urap that i didn't even know where to begin taking it apart because it didn't make much sense

[skitter30]

i'd kinda prefer flubber over xtoxm tbh

and yeah i can understand that

[skitter30]

I'd aim to pocket Ank before you, respectfully.

fair
i'm kinda thinking of what happened last time (fi you are who i think you are, of course)

[skitter30]

Creature = Nimueh > skitter30 = Ankamius = xRECKONERx = Chara = tris > Xtoxm > Elbirn > NotMySpamAccount > Flubbernugget
Where I'm at.

still confused why you're townreading creature

[skitter30]

yeah back to this
VOTE: flubber

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

aw i wanted the tictac slot

hello!
i'm pretty sure your slot is town!

oh thats good, i am too
should i sheep you until i get reads

Why do think you should sheep skitter specifically?

she called me town
i modded a game where she had good reads
i like her

why is this question so important to you that you feel the need to ask twice?

VOTE: tris

uh that's an incredibly weird post given that tris appears in your iso exactly three times before just now
also we're like never lynching ank today

[skitter30]

I'm pretty sure that's a scumclaim lol

yeah i was thinking that he's making a really good argument for me to vote him

[skitter30]

like i didn't even know that you were voting tris, that's how little of an impression your tris read made on me, so coming out of nowhere with a strong scumread on ank because she's defending tris is like ?????????

[skitter30]

I'm looking for scum between you and succinct at the moment. Has that not been clear?

no, i can see what you're saying you're doing, but how is that vote useful?
all your recent posts are just replies to me. it doesn't feel like sorting.

Part pressure, part not letting it go to waste, part not being impressed by succinct's current responses. Basic mafia 101 stuff. This is useless shade.

As is that my recent posts don't "feel" like sorting. Considering they're all answering your questions and having to clarify my previous posting, it shows you're asking pointless questions.

And to bring this whole thing full circle, your brigette vote was still awful.

ok
why exactly was my vote on you 'bizarre'? eli5

[skitter30]

VOTE: chara

That question was so ignorant of the issue brought up by a host of players in the game that I'm fully convinced your arguments are in bad faith.

this is an awful vote

[skitter30]

Try it this way,

Why sort who you dont suspect?

Let me find what you asked about them.

i suspected you by virtue of the fact that i hadn't sorted you yet

bolded: like the way i read this, the implication is that anyone you don't actively suspect (and by this i think you mean scumread?) you shouldn't spend time sorting - but like there's people in my null pile who i don't actively scumread that need to be sorted too

what exactly is your read on me?

[skitter30]

I've completely lost my will to win this game, it died after the D1 lynch, and now it feels like diving into a pool of molasses just reading the thread. I'm perfectly willing to sheep Ank or skitter or someone if it will just get this game to the end or at least to a point where the game is moving fast than 2 posts a day. If Ank is scum taking advantage to lead town astray, then screw it the scumteam deserves the win because I just don't care enough anymore. VOTE: Flubber, I hope it's not L-1 or a hammer cause I'm sure not checking.

you know, given that you're no longer townreading me i'm not sure why you'd be willing to sheep me from your pov ...

also yikes

[skitter30]

@Ank, can you link, quote the point where Urap2 switched his reads to match yours?

it starts here

bleh maybe at some pont i'll go back and reread that part of the game to refresh myself on just what happened there, but i still think the timing was townie

i'd prefer flubber over xtoxm because of the residual townread on urap but xtoxm has been quite scummy too, especially in the past few pages

[skitter30]

xtoxm how do u read flubber?

[skitter30]

succinct, why are you townreading creature?

[skitter30]

I still don't think he's out of his range tbh.

[skitter30]

Y

[skitter30]

Ok, who exactly?
So you're saying that his behavior is not inherenrly townie, but you scumread him less than other people?
Would you ever vote him today?

Pedir @xtoxm

[skitter30]

your reads are in that weird space where i can't tell if they're from scum making random stuff up or from town completely out of tune with the gamestate

i agree with elbirn i think
i don't really have a read on succinct (tho enter was townie)
flubber i think is scum

not sure why you're scumreading ank here, she's been fairly obvtown imo

pedit yeah i don't like that much either. when he's been around i think he's been townie tho

[skitter30]

i mean probably not but:

a) i don't know what you and flubber are flipping, and day4 or whatever is far away enough for the present that i imagine a lot of things would happen between now and then that would influence that read
b) your 'eh he isn't that scummy' read on flubber doesn't square with how you're reading him in that post; you're basically assuming ank is going to lead a mislynch on someone you're not even explicitly townreading ...?

[skitter30]

I liked both of these posts, fight me dorks

i actually kinda hate the xtoxm post

[skitter30]

I had some other multiquotes that gotten eaten by the cookie monster so idek what else I wanted to say

Reck said some gross shit earlier but no one cared so I guess I'm just insane

Skitter is town but under gross pretenses

I have a guess who nimueh is and I guess I'm just not allowed to actually play with them because if I vote there she'll never shut the fuck up so gg on being abusive
I should actually case tris or sort her properly, shit or get off the pot

Idk what else

uh yeah sorry about that
i had a townread on reck like a bajillion years ago but it's gone now
what don't you like about ank? i think she's pretty obvtown tbh
i also think chara is probably town but i'm not as solid on that

i know you said a bit further down you don't/can't case people rn but can you just say in like a sentence why you like flubber and xtoxm?

[skitter30]

i kinda think elbirn is town tbh

@elbirn which part of the game have you read and/or been following?

[skitter30]

ok the residual townread from urap2 is gone now and i'd vote xtoxm too

[skitter30]

VOTE: xtoxm

[skitter30]

i will note that the groupthink is starting to skeeve me out tho

[skitter30]

Still think Flubber is objectively correct but I'll compromise

VOTE: Xtoxm

i want flubber more
i thought you were already on xtoxm

[skitter30]

i really really really don't think the team is exactly {flubber/xtoxm/elbirn}

elbirn i think is kinda townie ngl
i would actually be like pleasantly surprised if both flubber/xtoxm were scum but the groupthink is too strong for that to be a thing almost imo

[skitter30]

idk how to use the vc scrubber

[skitter30]

gamestate is weird
almost too quiescent for all the scum to be in the lurker/unimpactful group

[skitter30]

bleh i wish i had a feel for how xtoxm plays
like i'm not sure scum post 2938
it doesn't feel like a scum post in this context

[skitter30]

idk i want this more
VOTE: flubber

[skitter30]

idk i've never played with him before so i dont' have a metric for what his town/scumgame usually looks like but in a vaccuum i'm not sure scum who's wagon is building spams that scum is going to win in an attempt to fake frustration with the gamestate

writing it out that way it makes more sense coming from scum tho than i felt originally

like the frustration feels more like he thinks everyone is dumb than from being backed in a corner

idk maybe i'm overthinking this

[skitter30]

oh it's never too early for me to get paranoid

[skitter30]

Like please trust me at least for today

If my solve is wrong and xtoxm/Flubber is NOT SvS, then I will step back and rethink

We have time to take lynched like this because we have more than enough time to reshift ourselves if we end up being wrong

is this directed at me? because voting flubber when you think xtoxm/flubber is kinda trusting you? not sure what you're asking of me tbh. you want me to go back on xtoxm?

also i'm god-awful at reading ate, especially in real time; i need like a delay of ~2 irl days to try to read it properly

[skitter30]

also didn't i get massive flak earlier for sheeping you ...?

[skitter30]

uh you picked an argument with me because i voted you when ank said she wasn't townreading you ...

[skitter30]

i'm not really paranoid of you; i'm pretty sure you're town
i'm not sure i trust your reads or your solve tho

@ank

[skitter30]

... i'm voting flubber tho
i'm not entirely sure what you're asking me to trust exactly

i'll prob switch back to xtoxm if needed but i'm still thinking about it

[skitter30]

... i'm voting flubber tho
i'm not entirely sure what you're asking me to trust exactly

i'll prob switch back to xtoxm if needed but i'm still thinking about it

To trust me enough to delay your paranoia until tomorrow

I suspect otherwise that your confidence is going to plummet upon a scumflip today

oh you're specifically saying that i shouldn't get paranoid about flubber/xtoxm being tvs until like tomorrow?
i wasn't really sure what we were talking about exactly
yeah sure
i think the day is kinda dead so idk i kinda just want to lynch one (preferably flubber!) and see what happens
if you're wrong and someone flips town i reserve the right to just ignore your gamesolve and your entreaties to trust you or whatever going forward

[skitter30]

i'm actually really confused by this whole conversation because i actually don't think i'm being paranoid rn
i'm kinda starting to think that maybe you mean something different by that word because i'm not sure what you think i'm paranoid of rn?

[skitter30]

if you're wrong and someone flips town i reserve the right to just ignore your gamesolve and your entreaties to trust you or whatever going forward

but not reassess your tr

i'm pretty sure she's town tho
i'm not convinced she has the right solve but i do think that there's scum in {you/flubber} so i'm ok with this for now

[skitter30]

i mean i guess that kinda makes sense because i was/am tending to becoming unsure if i want to lynch xtoxm today
but again i switched to the other half of your solve so i'm not sure why you find it problematic if the xtoxm wagon slows down

pedit are you that much more confident in xtoxm than flubber?

[skitter30]

In post 2901, skitter30 wrote:
i kinda think elbirn is town tbh
Explain?

frustration at ank seems genuine; doesn't feel like something he's doing to undermine her reads/influence/whatever, it really feels like he doesn't understand her and as a result doesn't like how she's leading the game

[skitter30]

@tris can you get on flubber please?

[skitter30]

no not really
i'd mostly been protesting the xtoxm thing because of the residual townread on urap but xtoxm i think has largely eroded it over the past few irl days

[skitter30]

aw i wanted the tictac slot

hello!
i'm pretty sure your slot is town!

no not really
i'd mostly been protesting the xtoxm thing because of the residual townread on urap but xtoxm i think has largely eroded it over the past few irl days

ive ignored this bullshit turnaround so far but its objectively very scummy
this is either really bad town or scum

uh that read changed over like 1000 posts and like 10 irl days
you'd have scored a point if those two posts were like five minutes apart from each other but like calling this a bullshit townread is .... a bit of a reach

[skitter30]

*turnaround

[skitter30]

probably but its still bullshit and if i piss her off she'll move her vote back to me

and i don't really think this is a fair characterization of how i play either

[skitter30]

actually are you trying to goad me into voting you ...?

[skitter30]

ank has already positioned to go after me if flub flips town and people are saying they wont reconsider anything on a townflip
so what is the fucking point

actually, i said i would stop listening to ank if whoever we lycnh today is town, but sure

[skitter30]

Have not slept
5am my time
Have to go back to work soon
Even though I worked last night
My job isnt even important enough to warrant this I'm just a bitch
My point being that my mental health just took a sudden nosedive (fucking sleep is important okay), expect exactly 0 content from me for today, or tomorrow, or whatever this time is

hey, i'm sorry to hear that i hope you feel better and are doing better soon

[skitter30]

Why would Flubber need to do anything when the wagon on him is already stalled? All he needs to do is not say anything too scummy and he's already set to be released from being today's lynch. The support against the wagons is not going to get higher than it already is without a huge centralized push as it is until it gets too close to deadline. Plus my influence is actually waning over time, and there is the very real threat that if it gets low enough, the wagons will dissipate if for no better reason because I'm trying to lead them.

yeah i was tallying up the votes on friday and was thinking that like .... there really aren't 7 people willing to lynch flubber rn i think and i'm really puzzled as to why that is because there's at best like three people townreading him (for like dubious reasons imo)

like i'm not sure why there's so much resistance here

[skitter30]

ok
why exactly was my vote on you 'bizarre'? eli5

I dunno anymore. Ask elbrin or one of the other players that took issue with it that you can't make an opportunistic push on.

you know, given that i *started the day voting for you* (ie eons before it was cool), and got a ridiculous amount of flak for it, i'm not really sure you can call this opportunistic

also, while i was getting that flak you chimed in to say that my vote was bad - *that's* oppurtunistic, especially since you can't explain why

[skitter30]

Like

If somehow a tris wagon forms and it ends up flipping town, I'm going to lol my ass off

i dont' really want a tris wagon today (i think flubber is siginficantly scummier) but i don't get why people (you, chara) are townreading her at all. i don't see it in the slightest

also i'm dubious of reck rn
elbirn i'm pretty sure is town tho

[skitter30]

can you elaborate on that a bit?

[skitter30]

yeah i kinda thought that too but then i went through the list of people actually pushing her - reck's on her rn, and i don't townread him. elbirn i townread. xtoxm was on her a while ago (idk if her currently is) but of {flubber/xtoxm} i think he's more likely to be town

so like ought i really think that tris is likely to be town because reck and xtoxm were pushing her? not sure that's a strong enough reason rn given my reads on both of them

[skitter30]

You keep pushing this narrative (without wanting to actually say it) that I have some massive suspicion of skitter when it was really just weird voting patterns worth noting.

You're right that it's easy for scum to do, but sometimes they still slip up.

no, you didn't explain it - you called it 'weird voting patterns worth noting' but never explained why you thought it was weird or why you thought it was worth noting if it never led to some sort of massive suspcion of me

UNVOTE:
explain the ic thing

[skitter30]

fine
VOTE: xtoxm
i don't particularly believe the claim and if you can't/don't prove the ic-ness tomorrow i'm voting you again

[skitter30]

that would be l-1 i think

[skitter30]

VOTE: Xtoxm

I'm starting to become paranoid again

[skitter30]

UNVOTE:

[skitter30]

Because i felt a lot more strongly about flubber being scum, and i'm less confident on xtoxm flipping scum, and then i started thinking that of xtoxm is town you'd have pushed thru two mislynches and i dont know why you're voting someone who's wagon you were questioning last night

[skitter30]

Yeah

I guess I'm getting nervous about sheeping you because you *were* wrong before and the wagon you want I'm not nearly as confident in as the one I wanted (tbf I'm not sure rn which wagon, if any, I'm confident in), but that one isn't really viable today

And I guess it isnt fair to get nervous about you pushing mislynches when i none of {xtxom/flubber} have been flipped yet but what you want doesnt quite align with what I want and if flubber is indeed an ic than you're 0/2 on flubber and brigitte and ???? On xtoxm

P-edit yeah this yook me a couple of minutes to write but yeah

I think you're town, not sure i trust your reads, not sure who i want to lynch

I might circle back to xtoxm idk yet

[skitter30]

Yeah i was looking at the wagon comp, i mostly like it rn except for reck

I'm trying to decide if i want to resolve the flubber/xtoxm gamesolve thing today so that we can at least move on from that either way or if we should just wait for flubber's ic thing tomorrow because i guess that' have the same effect basically

I guess the other problem is that i dont really scumread tris. I just dont townread her either

But a lynch kinda needs to happen today so

I'm still quite surprised at the sheer amount of resistance the flubber wagon had

[skitter30]

Yeah that's what i'm kinda weighing, the effect a townflip will have, since i dont actually know if she's scum

If she's town it'll remove a lhf mislynch (and i'd rather that happen now than like the day before lylo), but i think another townflip will screw with what little town cohesion there actually is * a lot* in this gamestate

So yeah

[skitter30]

Also i'm incredibly dubious of the day3 ic claim ngl

[skitter30]

I'm done with the gamesolve, don't bother

Yeah bit it caused enough controversy that its something that i think will fester if unresolved (kinda like unresolved 1v1 that just sits there for like 3 dayphases)

[skitter30]

Yeah i know, but flipping someone who i dont really scumread necause if they're town they're going to be an inevitable mislynch is :/

But like i also dont have any better ideas for a lynch rn so

Pedit yeah fair tbh

VOTE: tris

[skitter30]

Well at least it's nightless for the undetermined future
Idk the game being completely nightless with the usual amount of scum feels weird to me

Day3 ic with nightless also feels weird but tbf i dont know enough about the setup to really make that assessment rn

But like if he's ic and its nightless - does he just like never die? Do the night kills turn back on after he's been mod-confirmed as town?

[skitter30]

But like i also dont have any better ideas for a lynch rn so

[skitter30]

I think i would lynch this too ^^^^^^

[skitter30]

I'm gonna goahead and agree with Ank that town cohesion is done for. I'm crazy suspicious of the flubber claim, but I'm willing to lynch xtoxm just to see. VOTE: xtoxm If we can't get a lynch within irl today or tomorrow there's no way town has a chance bc we'll never agree enough on anything.

tbh I'm starting to get really iffy on the shadowing

shadowing?

[skitter30]

also tris's response to being wagoned is .... very lackluster

[skitter30]

so i'm only townreading like 2.5 people rn which is troubling (ank, elbirn, kinda chara. i guess maybe succinct too by virtue of the fact that town needs to be somewhere)

i'm also only scumreading like 1.5 people rn,one of whom is the ic claim, which is also troubling (flubber, kinda xtoxm)

my reads on: tris, nimueh, creature, reck, nmsa don't really exist and/or hover around nullscum which is really disappointing in a game this long

[skitter30]

tris is like .... really luckluster and like around and asking vague fluffy questions but isn't actually doing anything
chara is probably somewhere above the nullread but it's not a very strong read rn
there were a few times a couple of weeks back when i interacted with them in real time and that felt super townie but it was long enough ago that basing a townread on that feels :/

idk how to sort tris because she's super passive and i think to read chara again i'd want to try to talk to them in real time again

[skitter30]

so uh

do you all remember the several times I've expressed that skitter feels weird

this is another of those times

do tell

[skitter30]

so i'm only townreading like 2.5 people rn which is troubling (ank, elbirn, kinda chara. i guess maybe succinct too by virtue of the fact that town needs to be somewhere)

i'm also only scumreading like 1.5 people rn,one of whom is the ic claim, which is also troubling (flubber, kinda xtoxm)

my reads on: tris, nimueh, creature, reck, nmsa don't really exist and/or hover around nullscum which is really disappointing in a game this long

3 people, me, Succinct and Chara have given confident Creature trs based on meta and me by both meta and play, so I don’t understand how that hasn’t influenced your read on him.

a) i'm not really reading your posts for the most post and i dont' particularly trust your reads
b) i don't know if succint and chara (or you) have a history of reading him correctly

[skitter30]

if nmsa is scum i *really* don't think xtoxm is; urap's early push does not remotely feel like a bus

i could probably do nmsa too

my reads on: tris, nimueh, creature, reck, nmsa don't really exist and/or hover around nullscum which is really disappointing in a game this long

of this list i'd be willing to lynch tris or nmsa
creature and reck i'm not interested in lynching today
nimueh yeah

flubber we're waiting on for tomorrow
i'm not super feeling xtoxm rn

[skitter30]

i ... have no idea what means

[skitter30]

yeah so the 'edgy' bit is the part that i dont' understand

[skitter30]

uh... that's a *really* interesting interpretation of how i've been playing

[skitter30]

yeah so the 'edgy' bit is the part that i dont' understand

I mean you always look only analytical, without having some snark or something along your lines.

yeah i think i kinda lost patience with this game to do the long analysis thing because it's just too long and i guess i'm being slightly less polite/cordial than i usually am, sorry

[skitter30]

so i'm only townreading like 2.5 people rn which is troubling (ank, elbirn, kinda chara. i guess maybe succinct too by virtue of the fact that town needs to be somewhere)

i'm also only scumreading like 1.5 people rn,one of whom is the ic claim, which is also troubling (flubber, kinda xtoxm)

my reads on: tris, nimueh, creature, reck, nmsa don't really exist and/or hover around nullscum which is really disappointing in a game this long

3 people, me, Succinct and Chara have given confident Creature trs based on meta and me by both meta and play, so I don’t understand how that hasn’t influenced your read on him.

a) i'm not really reading your posts for the most post and i dont' particularly trust your reads
b) i don't know if succint and chara (or you) have a history of reading him correctly

You can ISO my other account. In every towngame I’ve played on here with Creature, I’ve ultimately read him correctly. This is verifiable.

i mean this in the nicest possible way but i don't think i can sheep you rn because of all that baggage, irregardless of what your history on reading him is
(that's why i'd be more interestd in what chara's/succinct's history of reading him is)

[skitter30]

uh... that's a *really* interesting interpretation of how i've been playing

it's not ridiculous

the game picked up steam again when I started my push, there's several very easy mislynches to push through when town doesn't care enough to sort them properly

so what's strange about looking to work around me while helping me set myself up to fail?

i mean given that i've been like sheeping you *quite* a lot i'm not really sure where you think i'm sabotoging you or like working around you

[skitter30]

i mean ok fair if i was partners with xtoxm i would probably be trying to do that

[skitter30]

VOTE: xtoxm

[skitter30]

bleh idk
my gut says he's town even given everything
VOTE: tris

[skitter30]

yeah, seriously

[skitter30]

i think i prefer tris/nmsa/xtoxm in that order but i don't love *any* of these idk

[skitter30]

yeah i agree, i only have like ~4 people i'm townreading and they're spread across 3 wagons

of the two big wagons i like the tris one better i think
i guess i could switch to nmsa too

[skitter30]

or nm

[skitter30]

VOTE: Xtoxm
fuck everyone
worst town ever

le sigh
that's 2/2 selfhammers
ngl think this is flipping town too

[skitter30]

Just going to point out that tris was the cw to both of these flips

[skitter30]

Going to bed shortly but i'm around for a few min
I was mad about brigitte, now i just feel resigned

I want to lynch tris tomorrow (barring flubber not proving his ic-ness), and yeah, that should have happened already

Nmsa's scum equity goes up since urap and nmsa arent scum together

Not really listening to ank's reads anymore, sorry @ank

[skitter30]

his scumgame has improved and all hes really done here is support the consensus reads

Yeah this
I dont think he's out of his range
I dont think he's participating consistently, nor do i think that his progression is inherently genuine and/or townie

[skitter30]

i don't think my meta is that old. again if you have recent scumgames i'll look at them.

I havent played with scum!him, it was a game that i lowkry spectatted a few months back where he endgamed as scum (pretty sure he won the lylo?)
I dont remember which game it was, just that it was in the normal queue

[skitter30]

So i'm kinda over sheeping people or listening to other people's reads this game

[skitter30]

Uh you can ask someone what the vc is ...?

[skitter30]

I think he was sending a pm to someone (brigitte from context) and instead of sending it to them he posted it by mistake

[skitter30]

aren't you replaced out?

Yeah, and since this is his first slip despite being gone for a while, it makes me wonder if this isn't intentional. Could there be a role that involved replacing out, or is that too meta to be legal?

I mean really?

[skitter30]

oldest trick in the fucking book. i'm stupid.
there's no way Ank was bussing with that ruleset.

we have two more chances to lynch a scum or we lose. that's basically it.

Yeah so i'm kinda suspicious of people who were against flubber yesterday (like you, for instance)

[skitter30]

Oh my gosh. Why didn't I think about this possibility. This is exactly like that other game.

I mean, i said that this could be a thing like 100 pages ago and you *acknowledged it and interacted with me saying that* so this feels fake

[skitter30]

It reminds me of the game you were in with the mod. Where she caught you fake claiming as vig.

[skitter30]

idk i want this more
VOTE: flubber

skitter repeated this a few times.

i think this is a setup where scum are going to try to distance as much as possible. it's just necessary.
but it's really hard to analyze if the IC claim was a plan from the start of day 2. one could freely bus their buddy knowing meta says to let the claim live.

i think me and skitter (and tris, it sounds like) were players who

should

have been aware of this possibility and just. didn't consider it. because yes, it is exactly like that other game i spectated.

I mean i tried lynching him like four times yesterday and i kept getting flak for it so
It did not occur to me that the game might transition into this setup on n3

[skitter30]

then again everyone fell for the stupid IC claim so i wonder if where the wagons went even mattered.

Well, i didnt