Fire on the Mountain [Over]

[Ankamius]

I really don't feel good about either of these

[Ankamius]

let scum decide when to ignite by themselves

it's info no matter when it is

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: NerfedBuJ

[Ankamius]

I think scum might still ignite.

Optimal play is to not ignite until 1 doused player has been lynched.

thanks that needed to be public info

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Xtoxm

fuck it

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Liger_zero

[Ankamius]

RAS do you believe that Liger's predecessor is more readable than Liger is?

I ask because my initial impression is the opposite

[Ankamius]

VOTE: NerfedBuJ

Can we go back to this please

[Ankamius]

VOTE: NerfedBuJ

Can we go back to this please

No.

Why.

[Ankamius]

Dann do you think Xtoxm flips scum here

[Ankamius]

I really don't think Max would end up endgaming this as scum unless everybody gets trapped chasing their tails until scum can destroy all the strong town players, which is still a few days off

BuJ is that kind of player I suspect would get pushed back into the townblock if he doesn't get lynched sooner rather than later, and all it really takes is both Eagle and myself being ignited for all these associatives to be completely forgotten since I don't think anybody else in this playerlist would ever look back at that and how he continues throughout the game.

Liger is just a compromise because people don't really know what to do atm and are stuck in a solve.
Xtoxm is probably town and just feels like a wasted lynch.

I'd really rather we get BuJ today even if just to remove my own paranoia of him endgaming.

[Ankamius]

I really don't think Xtoxm, Liger, or Max ever endgame unless major league bullshit happens

I could see BuJ potentially endgaming

[Ankamius]

Why are you playing this game planning out day 9. This is the current day. Lynch your scumreads. This isn't some game of RISK where we need to get all our pieces in the right position.

I would like to redirect you to the third line of my signature

[Ankamius]

Why are you playing this game planning out day 9. This is the current day. Lynch your scumreads. This isn't some game of RISK where we need to get all our pieces in the right position.

I would like to redirect you to the third line of my signature

You don't lynch final scum by playing RISK.

can you guess how I win town games

it's exactly because I see this shit coming and stop it.

[Ankamius]

Ank
Apply your mindset for lynching Buj
to Liger

and then let's lynch Liger
I'm ok w/ Buj tomorrow

are you telling me that you think liger actually endgames here?

[Ankamius]

it's entirely possible that he's specifically playing for keeping you around all game, Dann

[Ankamius]

let me just put it this way

there's enough lynchbait in this town that BuJ just has to not be the top scumread for most players in order to have a good shot at living long enough to be able to outlast the towncore

if Eagle, Prince, Reiuji, and me all die, then what exactly is the threat to him?

the towncore is damn likely to fall apart if all the strongest players die
the lynchable slots that are being protected by the towncore are all mislynchable again after the towncore dies

this is doable

after tomorrow

, because you only need 4 slots dead in order to drastically weaken town in this game and I don't trust that the rest of town will be able to rally together enough to lynch BuJ if that happens

naturally it changes based on the douse order, but worst case scenario this is how I expect it would happen

I don't think Liger endgames with the towncore dead
I don't think Maxwell endgames with the towncore dead
I don't think Vedith endgames with the towncore dead

I think BuJ endgames in this scenario

[Ankamius]

mcqueen

thoughts on BuJ please

[Ankamius]

Look back to where Shoshin/DT were the primary wagons.

BuJ was on the Shoshin wagon first, and grapes hopped onto the wagon later with awkward justification tacked on. He didn't want to look opportunistic with hopping on that wagon since he had to have known that if that had gone through, the wagon would have been put under a microscope by the rest of the town and his vote would stick out like a sore thumb otherwise.

I assume grapes panicked when the BuJ wagon started up, because his vote on there was much more aggressive and 'emotional' than the rest of his posting.

grapes then vanished from the thread and held his vote on the BuJ wagon, which was relatively safe to do since it wasn't really moving and worst case, he'd look better if it DID start gaining traction towards a lynch because of how aggressive he was.

grapes pretty blatantly panicked when the wagon on him started, the post he made trying to attack eagle is proof enough of that.

Finally, BuJ's vote on grapes had that same weird justification, like he was more worried about how he appeared after the vote than actually lynching a scumread.

[Ankamius]

Enter

join the wagon please

[Ankamius]

Stop just sheeping wagons DrDoLittle, it looks like you are just going with the flow without thinking about reasoning behind it which looks scummy.

VOTE: Max

I don't trust this now.

we can look at max tomorrow

you've already said that you don't trust that people will lynch max right after you and you're very likely going to be the lynch today if this wagon doesn't overtake it

[Ankamius]

didn't BuJ say at one point that he plays differently in every scumgame

I swear I saw that at some point this game

[Ankamius]

WHens deadline i need time to meta check buj but honestly i think hes town.

we have like 5 days but I'd rather not wait that long to end the day

[Ankamius]

Liger being paranoid of everybody is not going to help anybody, nor is a vanity vote

switch back please

[Ankamius]

Ank
Apply your mindset for lynching Buj
to Liger

and then let's lynch Liger
I'm ok w/ Buj tomorrow

are you telling me that you think liger actually endgames here?

i think it's a possiblity yes

more of the " think oif the endgame" tho

I don't think Liger has the type of playstyle to wiggle into the sweet spot and maintain it like that, he's too chaotic of a player for that and I don't think he would be able to exceed it very easily even with the towncore gone

BuJ could maintain what he's doing here for a good while, it's low level enough that I don't believe it would take a whole lot to keep his general content level going, there's enough shields to keep him from being the top target and he already managed to get into everyone's townlist once, you think he wouldn't be able to do it again?

[Ankamius]

Atm

BuJ
Liger
DDL
Mcqueen

Are my top guesses but they're not the most confident atm

I'm not entirely sure on Dann because of DT
I'm not entirely sure on Xtoxm

The rest I'm not interested in double checking until I have more to work with

[Ankamius]

Who am I supposed to voting right now?

BuJ please

[Ankamius]

Oh Max is technically on the list too but he's a later sort

[Ankamius]

BuJ gives info too enter

Confirming a lot about D1 would be really helpful to learning how scum were planning to play the game overall

[Ankamius]

who has taken stances on buj
srs question

I don't remember very many people having a particularly strong opinion of him especially as soon as the pressure started

[Ankamius]

like, he was a primary wagon early day 1?

The fact that BuJ wagon was a counterwagon to scumgrapes wagon is one of the reason why I'm still iffy on lynching him.

It wasn't, though

The Shoshin and BuJ wagons were both well stalled before the grapes wagon gained steam, there really wasn't a counterwagon to the grapes wagon

[Ankamius]

Btw

The only likely bussers of grapes left is Maxslot and BuJ

Everyone else is either flipped or town

[Ankamius]

That's... an interesting time to be discussing that

Most of his posting around that time is defending himself or that, I could see that coming from scum!him being content with where the gamestate is sitting

[Ankamius]

That's... an interesting time to be discussing that

Most of his posting around that time is defending himself or that, I could see that coming from scum!him being content with where the gamestate is sitting

Nvm this isn't actually correct

But his content is fairly low level stuff that isn't too far out of the consensus, the math posting could have just been there to maintain a townread alongside his defense

[Ankamius]

so uh ankamius I'm really curious

why exactly is it that you think that your reads are better than mine?

no like actually you did your utmost to fuck over town in rapier upick mafia

mastina claiming you should have been part of a moment of brilliance nom is such a meme you prevented a brigitte wagon for almost the entirety of D1 and prevented the fractured lynch as well

you had dumbass fucking scumreads on every lynchbaity slot on the board

what part of that tells you that the correct move in this game is to come in and take a gigantic shit all over my xtoxm scumread and strongarm town onto one of my locktownreads?

what the fuck is your problem?

I'm sorry for helping prevent town from potentially letting a scum slot live for the whole game solely because they're too focused on their easy lynchbait scum reads to realize that, you know, maybe lynchbait generally isn't going to survive to the end of the game while it would be easy for the players with scum equity outside of the lynchbait scumlist to just ride them long enough to destroy the towncore?

I don't know how the hell you think that an xtoxm lynch, EVEN IF HE FLIPS SCUM, is better for town than eliminating that possibility entirely, you're still potentially relying on the rest of the town to find the last scum and do you really fucking think there's going to be good odds of that if the second scum was buj?

[Ankamius]

I will be here tonight

I'm crashing hard

[Ankamius]

can I at least get enough time to put a will out or something

I have a very bad feeling I was doused last night and I would really rather have an opportunity to speak my mind before potentially dying tonight

[Ankamius]

has anybody gotten the sense that Dann has been awkward lately

[Ankamius]

I am leaning heavily that scum are in the "townblock". Gonna be fun to have my head chewed of for that. That is a good explanation for why no ignition at least, not sure why you want to have so many people around that people see as locktown other than to rely on the paranoia that festers when you have less people you can lynch to work with.

Or maybe the locktown group is so bad that scum just don't care to kill them yet and are relying on their terrible lynches.

that paranoia isn't really justified yet

there's only a few scenarios I can think of right now where scum don't ignite n4 or n5 so if it happens, we can discuss it then

until that point, there's not enough to go on to nail down what scum are trying to do precisely

[Ankamius]

I will admit mcqueen freakout on eagle seemed very overdone. But I don't want to be on this consensus that mcqueen is scum. Think its going to cause another mislynch.

I'm guessing you think that because yesterday went poorly and you're leery of too-easy consensuses.

Who else is scum? Is Max still your only scum read?

Max is my only scumread. But I think the last scum outside of that is in the townblock but i have no clue who.
Maybe its Eagle. Kind of doubt it, but idk.

there is no way in hell eagle would be able to fake some of his posts to me

it's literally impossible

[Ankamius]

I guess I could see Rei more likely than Eagle actually.

not impossible but still very unlikely

it's not worth humoring until there's good reason to I think

[Ankamius]

Remember when you said fractured was locktown? I sure do.

it's a hugely different scenario

I read fractured based on how I expected enter and taly to function together and it made sense from a town standpoint

this is enter literally giving one of the most tryhard reachouts off of very little time and giving absolutely zero signs of panicking or really any stress that I'm scumreading them at all

does that look like the same enter that spent the entire first half of BoP2 absolutely sure he was going to lose?

[Ankamius]

I am leaning heavily that scum are in the "townblock". Gonna be fun to have my head chewed of for that. That is a good explanation for why no ignition at least, not sure why you want to have so many people around that people see as locktown other than to rely on the paranoia that festers when you have less people you can lynch to work with.

I guess mechanically igniting early is sub-optimal, additionally it serves to withhold information and increase paranoia like this, so that's also an explanation.

Last night only 3 players could have been ignited. Even if scum takes out Ank/EE/Prince, that still leaves a fair amount of consensus town reads and such kills would only reinforce the idea that we're on the right track with the townblock and PoE.

mechanically seems neutral considering they can ignite 3 times, and they have 3 doused so far and can douse while they ignite. So last night seemed like a good time to take out three hard lock town. I don't see any other reason not to do it unless they believe the locktown are going to be useless or they are in it. So pick your poison i guess.

keep in mind

one of the reasons I don't think scum are likely to ignite early is because the exact combination of people is information just as much as when they ignite is

having more people die to being ignited at once helps obscure that information so it's harder to tell who was doused on which night

[Ankamius]

I almost think we should lynch players that we think the scum would douse because that lessens the amount that they can potentially kill and we can potentially get a scum that was able to hide themselves very well.

I don't know if that is brilliant or moronic but it can stall out a scum win instead of potential mislynching players that scum have no interest in dousing.

you understand that this is essentially like me suggesting that we should lynch extrapolated eagle solely because he is probably doused, right?

[Ankamius]

I don't think a new townblock would form that easily, but that is kind of speculation that i am not sure is true or not.

I think by killing part of the town block, you basically confirm that their reads are on the right track.

that isn't true in a vacuum, it strongly depends on who exactly is dead too assuming you're referring to the ignition kills

[Ankamius]

ankamius how would you feel if I told you that you were my second favorite person in this playerlist :]

:V

you said my reads are dogshit though

[Ankamius]

Also I don't understand people in this game.

What is this mentality of "I don't want to lynch scummy players because they do not give much info."

Like hello? We're still lynching scum?

this is a low info game solely because of how the nightkills work

maximizing information so that the people who are eventually going to get ignited can get their piece in is a lot more helpful than catching two scum and letting the third nuzzle into a comfortable spot to wait out the rest of the game, which is exactly the type of strategy I look to counter while I'm still alive to do so

it's possible that isn't what's happening in this case but I still want to make damn sure that it doesn't end up biting us in the ass, because any scum in the lynchbait slots literally doesn't matter compared to them

[Ankamius]

i was mad that you lynched buj

pls forgive :(

i'm not sure when you went from that random person that i mislynched in a bunch of games and never interacted with otherwise to a person i thought was pretty cool but you are a person i think is pretty cool :]

<3

probably because now that we both calmed down, it's actually pretty apparent we can get along just fine lol

[Ankamius]

Do you all not realize that, especially with this mechanic - ESPECIALLY if BuJ was doused, although we don’t know this - lynching town isn’t necessarily the worst if it gives info. Most agree on that; however, most are mad at ME for trying to coordinate SOME type of lynch when the rest of the townblock has been shown to lack this ability? IIRC TWICE yesterday was someone at L-1 with no hammer. Do you really think town is going to win with a bunch of indecisiveness floating around? While BuJ’s lynch may have been wrong, it is the precursor to picking a lynch as a block and sticking with it - the way it should be - win or lose.

I'll have to relook to double check this as true but this looks town at a glance

[Ankamius]

I'm not convinced on McQueen. Someone explain it for me?

Sure. It comes down to these 3 posts being the worst progression in the entire game:

So there’s scum in {PR, Alisae, and Rei} ? Scum team found already ?

dang got em VOTE: Rei.

Seriously tho im pretty sure at least one scum is in those three if not more.

Lemme throw it out there that while Eagles play is bad i think its bad town and anyone voting him is looking scummy rn. Yes you grapes

He votes Rei yet simultaneously calls grapes scummy while his wagon is at 6 votes. (this is also just after grapes' infamous catch-up post) It looks like scum hoping they don't have to bus but know they can't outright ignore the wagon.

Additionally, mcqueen goes from asking for more time to meta Buj yesterday, to dropping that and strong-arming EE into hammering, despite simultaneously pushing two other random/vanity slots at this same time.

does mcqueen strike you as the kind of player to hardbus in that scenario or the type to hedge like that?

that's an important distinction for whether that particular point is scum-indicative or null

[Ankamius]

Eagle Im tryna figure out why scum mcqueen doesnt wanna push me here tho
Like am I too obvious lynchbait am I just too hard to lynch now
Idk maybe im putting too much thought into it but considering the dwindling mislynch options for scum if the big townpool is rly right idk how it sits with me

it probably means that if mcqueen is scum here, he knows he is not hitting endgame

that could mean a few different things but it would strongly indicate that protecting his partner is more important than pushing lynches specifically

[Ankamius]

Liger is acting exactly how I think scum acts here (maybe THATS too blatant idfk) w putting paranoia in the townpool (or at least trying to)

Pedit Yes

If liger ever flips scum, that will be one of the biggest things to look back at

[Ankamius]

Bit slow on the uptake i omgused you 1k posts ago keep up

Liger/Xtoxm/mcqueen is fine I guess but imo the latter two are doing a bad job of getting mislynches
I know backseat scumplay while town does the lynches for u is a thing but still
Would feel better if i was settled on Jingle and Dolittle
Both of em are kinda townleans but I havent rly read Jingle too much

what do you think the strategy is for scum within that block?

Either one or two

[Ankamius]

This is very lazy scum play if you are scum Max.
You are just sheeping peoples reads blatantly and barely pretending to sort stuff. While sucking the townblocks dicks the whole way through.

Good thing im not scum
But if i was scum itd be stellar scum play bc it seems to be working so go me im a genius

Im in a game w Renais and Ankamius do u rly think im gonna be thinking my reads are in any way better than theirs when their reasoning for those reads is literally in front of my face

I also like what Danns putting out ftr

huh? do you have prior experience with either of us?

[Ankamius]

town here would absolutely have a chance of having a problem with an individual in the townblock. i think several people have at some point expressed that. buj is an example.
L0 doesn't have a specific townread that he's scumreading, he's just taking potshots at the townblock as a whole. no individual to commit to, he's just taking turns discrediting different people and hoping something happens
the way he's dealing with max as well feels strongly like he's trying to set up that mislynch but doesn't actually want to lead it today. it's something i've done as scum before.

i feel like getting the buj lynch through gave scum a lot of confidence wrt lynching townread slots and l0 is playing like that.

do you think l0 is doing the same thing with the town block as he is with max?

[Ankamius]

“No NKs means the townblock must be wrong” is an inherently flawed argument and painting every consensus town read as a possible deepwolf does nothing to help town unless you also have supplemental reasons to believe a specific individual is a deepwolf. Aside from your mechanical theory on why lynching Rei is good, why do you suspect her over any other town read individual?

Your only scum read is apparently Max and apparently very strong, but you’d rather lynch elsewhere first to get more mislynches?

I really don't like the timing of this post

[Ankamius]

I don't know it's more like "people keep jabbing him but he's still doing his own thing." I'm bad with words.

this might be personality tbh

he's playing different than he did in anime upick but the sarcasm and snark he had in postgame is similar enough to here that I could see it being nai

[Ankamius]

dann always reads awkward
your read on him is like your read on urap in bop 2, i think

iirc he didn't read this way in merchant's daughter though

and a lot of his play recently feels a lot more... on purpose than I remember him feeling there?

[Ankamius]

what agenda are you thinking of eagle

[Ankamius]

dann always reads awkward
your read on him is like your read on urap in bop 2, i think

iirc he didn't read this way in merchant's daughter though

and a lot of his play recently feels a lot more... on purpose than I remember him feeling there?

You said I was "wooden posting" in MD and generally pushed me for being awkward there (as did PvT).

If by recent play you mean by this day phase, I'm am trying to do/be more of this:

dann assert your reads and be an asshole about it

:V

I think I was mainly pushing that because I was deepwolf hunting though

[Ankamius]

:V

I think I was mainly pushing that because I was deepwolf hunting though

It was fairly early on. The wooden posting comment specifically was within the first few pages of you entering the game at least and before any sort of consensus town block had been formed.

oh so when I was tilted at the mechanics talk then

[Ankamius]

:V

I think I was mainly pushing that because I was deepwolf hunting though

It was fairly early on. The wooden posting comment specifically was within the first few pages of you entering the game at least and before any sort of consensus town block had been formed.

oh so when I was tilted at the mechanics talk then

Yea, that was it. So maybe different from the type of awkward posting you're talking about

maybe?

I'd have to reread your early posting in that game then to have an opinion one way or the other

I've just been getting a sense that your play is very deliberate today and through a chunk of yesterday

[Ankamius]

Ankamius can I help you out for a second and tell you dannflor is town.

sure

I'll help you out back and say that your word on him doesn't mean enough for me to sheep it

[Ankamius]

:V

I think I was mainly pushing that because I was deepwolf hunting though

It was fairly early on. The wooden posting comment specifically was within the first few pages of you entering the game at least and before any sort of consensus town block had been formed.

oh so when I was tilted at the mechanics talk then

Yea, that was it. So maybe different from the type of awkward posting you're talking about

maybe?

I'd have to reread your early posting in that game then to have an opinion one way or the other

I've just been getting a sense that your play is very deliberate today and through a chunk of yesterday

Today, that's what I've been going for specifically. Yesterday, not sure.

I think overall my play has been pretty similar to MD over the whole game here but I'm not the best judge of that nor the one to argue that.

meh

I'll just write you off as a player I can't read then

[Ankamius]

PoR
EE
Ank
Reiuji
Karm

agreed

RAS
Jingle

also agreed

DDL
Dannflor
mcqueen
Vedith
MaxwellPuckett
Liger_zero
Xtoxm

Vedith is not likely to be scum
mcqueen/Xtoxm are the two slots in contention that I am not convinced are likely scum
Maxwell I still think should have another day to really show his alignment before deciding for certain
Dann is a giant question mark
I keep forgetting DDL is even in the game at all
Liger I'm not really townreading but I'm not scumreading either?

I'm starting to realize that my scumreads are a lot more muddled than I thought they were

[Ankamius]

what is the plan for that scumteam though?

that kinda feels like a 'lie down and die' team to me atm if it's true

[Ankamius]

not impossible that the scumteam is giving up and accepting their fate but I'd expect scum to at least try to fight back at least

unless they're waiting for later days to do it?

[Ankamius]

the douses in that case are probably Prince -> EE -> Me?

if that's the case then I'd think they would ignite n3, I can't think of a particular 4th that would warrant delaying unless they specifically doused someone like karmeleon or something

[Ankamius]

i... don't agree?

DDL was townread by at least a few people as was maxwell? why wouldn't they just let us kill everyone around them

maxwell is pretty much set to be an eventual lynch in that gamestate

like yeah I'm shielding him atm but they have to be very well aware that it's not going to last indefinitely

and DDL is in a shaky enough spot that in his position, I'd be wanting to simplify the game before eyes get turned my way

[Ankamius]

ehhhhh...

that might actually work from a n4 or n5 ignite PoV regardless of actual douses instead after how yesterday went

[Ankamius]

I think of the worst case scenarios :V

[Ankamius]

fine

if you can convince me of your scumreads then I'll follow them

[Ankamius]

succinct lasted as long as they did in anuket specifically because I attributed all their scummy shit to their alt instead of them being scum

[Ankamius]

I did

[Ankamius]

no

succinct lasted as long as they did because town never got together properly all game and instead were igniting TvT fights all game

I'm saying that succinct would never have lasted to my replace out if I had properly read them as scum because I was the only one that could reasonably have been expected to, there were several tells there that I picked up on and if I had properly had them as a scumread alongside flubber, I think a lot of people would have had a lot less apprehension towards my solve despite it being a gamewinning one

[Ankamius]

funny thing, I never actually townread succinct either which should've been a red flag in of itself

[Ankamius]

funny thing, I never actually townread succinct either which should've been a red flag in of itself

....

funny thing, this is my point

that doesn't apply to here though

succinct is a player I have a lot of experience with and by all rights should be able to soulread just by how they interact with the game

who here do I have the experience or personality knowledge to be able to make that same call accurately?

even you don't count because I have an actually pretty average to bad record in reading you so far, I'd need a good chunk more experience to reach that point with you

[Ankamius]

and yeah, lack of a scumread doesn't make someone town, but if they're a slot I don't see ever not being lynched eventually, it makes me wary of resolving that slot immediately unless there are other reasons to

I simply do not play the way most people do, enter

I specifically play so that all the impact I need to have is frontloaded, that means resolving the more difficult sorts early and leaving the easy sorts for later when I'm not going to be around to resolve it

[Ankamius]

well yeah eagle is locktown, I literally said that like 2 pages ago

[Ankamius]

I will admit mcqueen freakout on eagle seemed very overdone. But I don't want to be on this consensus that mcqueen is scum. Think its going to cause another mislynch.

I'm guessing you think that because yesterday went poorly and you're leery of too-easy consensuses.

Who else is scum? Is Max still your only scum read?

Max is my only scumread. But I think the last scum outside of that is in the townblock but i have no clue who.
Maybe its Eagle. Kind of doubt it, but idk.

there is no way in hell eagle would be able to fake some of his posts to me

it's literally impossible

[Ankamius]

okay like 6 pages

jesus fucking christ have we really had this discussion that long?

[Ankamius]

I will

fight you

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: UNVOTE:

[Ankamius]

nice

[Ankamius]

VOTE: NSG

[Ankamius]

:V

that game is embarrassing to me

[Ankamius]

hi there

[Ankamius]

sorry I guess

[Ankamius]

I'm just waiting to die tbh

I'm rapidly losing the drive to care

[Ankamius]

PoR
EE
Ank
Reiuji
Karm

agreed

RAS
Jingle

also agreed

DDL
Dannflor
mcqueen
Vedith
MaxwellPuckett
Liger_zero
Xtoxm

Vedith is not likely to be scum
mcqueen/Xtoxm are the two slots in contention that I am not convinced are likely scum
Maxwell I still think should have another day to really show his alignment before deciding for certain
Dann is a giant question mark
I keep forgetting DDL is even in the game at all
Liger I'm not really townreading but I'm not scumreading either?

I'm starting to realize that my scumreads are a lot more muddled than I thought they were

[Ankamius]

wow

[Ankamius]

wow

What's up?

even after removing me that list is still bad lol

[Ankamius]

yeah I'm not in the mood for this atm

later

[Ankamius]

am I going to need to read the last 15 pages

[Ankamius]

cool then I won't bother

VOTE: mcqueen

[Ankamius]

liger what are your reads atm

[Ankamius]

I'm assuming Ank is town unless evidence to the contrary forces me to, because she's the most likely to effort at this point and her being town simplifies things.

idk jingle

I just had a towngame where I put in near maximum effort for weeks and effectively got shouted down from my gamewinning lynch and completely compromised afterwards.

I'm pretty certain that if I tried to effort here today, I really don't think it would get me anywhere after the BuJ lynch.

[Ankamius]

I don’t feel so good

do you need an aspirin

[Ankamius]

So being set up for an endgame mislynch is fun
Hows everybody doin im at work

Ank is Jingle confident town y/n

this isn't what I remember seeing from scum!jingle both times I've seen it, but at the time I don't really trust my ability to read him consistently

FA was pretty town though

[Ankamius]

I think Jingle would be more actively trying to push a narrative if he was scum here

even if he was waiting for the towncore to be ignited to start having a more active stance on the game, I still think he'd be looking to prepare for that ahead of time and I'm not seeing any signs of that either

I doubt he's scum unless my read on his playstyle is just wrong entirely.

[Ankamius]

or = ddl

[Ankamius]

this isn't what I remember seeing from scum!jingle both times I've seen it, but at the time I don't really trust my ability to read him consistently

FA was pretty town though

I cant read FA lol
if youre not worried im not that worried
Mightve just been Jingles last readlist rhat pinged me bc dismissing me as "low impact who replaced low impact" feels like an easy way to mislynch me later w/o interacting w me even tho ive been rly present

oh another note about this

the last time I played with FA, she was obvtown on day one. I don't know how good my read strength is with her specifically since I've never seen her scumgame before, but I think I'd be able to notice the difference over time

[Ankamius]

Its literally creature and RC

what

[Ankamius]

mcqueen what are your other reads?

[Ankamius]

Enter is never scum here, I will 100% guarantee it and will eat a lynch over that slot if I have to.

my other strong town reads are not to that level of confidence, but I would still be heartbroken if any of them flipped scum. RC and Creature are in that category

[Ankamius]

:V

[Ankamius]

I'll be around later today

[Ankamius]

ank why are you not interested in this game?

same reason as yesterday, enter

I can't handle a second anuket

[Ankamius]

do you have anything specific you want me to comment on

[Ankamius]

Town
Ankamius
Creature
Enter
Jingle

Stale Town
FormerFish
RadiantCowbells
Reiuji Utsuho
Vedith

Iffy/Idk
Dannflor
Liger_Zero
MaxwellPuckett
or
Xtoxm

[Ankamius]

I can remember pretty recent specific stuff or just content I can't see from town in the top tier

the tier below it were strong townreads for reasons that were good earlier in the game but now I either don't remember or don't think they're as strong anymore, and I don't have recent stuff to fall back on for keeping those reads there

everyone else I either am conflicted on or don't have much opinion on at all

[Ankamius]

I can remember pretty recent specific stuff or just content I can't see from town in the top tier

*as scum

[Ankamius]

the lists aren't in any particular order, it's all alphabetized

[Ankamius]

Jingle :/

should I be worried about you atm

[Ankamius]

I finally got around to looking into D2 stuff and that combined with the D1 VCs makes you stand out

[Ankamius]

I don't think Or makes sense as a partner but independently I can see it yes

[Ankamius]

I don't think Or makes sense as a partner but independently I can see it yes

by this I mean I can see Jingle independently

[Ankamius]

Jingle :/

should I be worried about you atm

Compare grapes wagon and my subsequent days to police and my lurktastic partners. Realize that if I'm scum here, I'm scum with someone who I can trust to carry the game after I die. Realize that of the player list when I joined that would be RCSlot/Ali and of the playerlist now that would be RCslot/you. Realize that RC/Shoshin interactions firmly imply RC is unaware of Shoshin's alignment.

you kinda rolled over in police academy though, at the very least your impact on the game severely lessened over time after your Nosferatu case hit a brick wall and Titus became mechanically locktown

the way the game has progressed here has gone through a somewhat similar type of pattern even if the exact scenario isn't the same

[Ankamius]

I think Jingle would be more actively trying to push a narrative if he was scum here

even if he was waiting for the towncore to be ignited to start having a more active stance on the game, I still think he'd be looking to prepare for that ahead of time and I'm not seeing any signs of that either

I doubt he's scum unless my read on his playstyle is just wrong entirely.

I can't get over this though :/

I believe Jingle to be a competent enough scum to be able to do this while town is mostly incorrect, but he just... didn't.

this is a very passive scumgame for him if he's scum and I'm not sure that's his style at all, the two scumgames I saw from him in the past were definitely not like this.

[Ankamius]

do you think that's what his plan would be here Liger?

I feel like he would be trying to add to the lynchpool more than try to defend his partner in a dwindling one

[Ankamius]

you kinda rolled over in police academy though, at the very least your impact on the game severely lessened over time after your Nosferatu case hit a brick wall and Titus became mechanically locktown

Yeah, my presence in the game took a drastic hit when the number of uncleared players was less than the number of mislynches I needed to pull off. But until that point I was THE townleader. I was THE universal townread. And I knew I was the scum taking things to endgame, because my partners clearly couldn't.

Comparitively, here, my partner who is known was also not someone who would have taken things to endgame. The fact that I haven't tried to be influential means one of two things: 1. I don't have to try in order to win the game. 2. I'm not trying to win the game as scum.

one question about this

if you entered the game with a DDL+grapes scumteam, what do you think would be the way the game would progress after N1?

[Ankamius]

try to defend his partner in a dwindling one

except my supposed partner has been my preferred lynch for like 3 days now.

that doesn't disprove my point at all though

I think you'd rather widen the lynchpool if your scumpartner was in the lynchpool than to stay lynching within that same pool.

[Ankamius]

if you entered the game with a DDL+grapes scumteam, what do you think would be the way the game would progress after N1?

I'd have turbobussed instead of rolling over on grapes, probably would have instigated a big blowup fight with PR in order to make it so people wouldn't listen to him about me, would have subtly undermined any forming townblocks, and would have turbobussed DDL for the cred.

I wouldn't have sat on my hands and let the thread play around me. I wouldn't have hardtownread Ali. I would have tried to convince em I was town. I would have put up more resistance to the wagons we had. And I would've done absolutely nothing to dismiss the ermagerd RC alive! paranoia that the town would have fallen to eventually. Seriously, lynching RC for the LYLO? Glorious.

okay good

yeah Jingle is town.

[Ankamius]

okay good

yeah Jingle is town

me = skeptical

his assessment is roughly correct

he's capable of helping prevent these townblocks from forming and pushing a narrative without looking like he's pushing a narrative

the problem is... if he is scum with DDL, he's basically played against what he knows would make it far more likely to get him a winning result than just letting 2/3 of the game townblock up and just rail through the rest of the playerlist without that extra input from him

and of course he's going to be under fire when people eventually start realizing that the game isn't as simple as it appears, he pretty blatantly is not really doing anything

that's not what I'd expect from his scumgame.

[Ankamius]

I'm pretty sure he'd care as scum

[Ankamius]

that was referring to jingle

[Ankamius]

Vedith what are your other reads atm?

[Ankamius]

have you played with jingle before lol

[Ankamius]

you're tunneling on the most bizarre things liger

[Ankamius]

have you played with Jingle before liger

[Ankamius]

can you repeat that for me in legible english please jingle

[Ankamius]

did RAS do anything specific that warrants looking at

ngl I skimmed most of his posts

[Ankamius]

can you convince me on either Jingle

[Ankamius]

can you convince me on either Jingle

Look at ali's reaction to me. Imagine you being in eir position, immediately after police academy with no other knowledge of how I operate, but with people like mastina and eddie cain talking up how good I am. Realize, as scum, that you don't want to start an unnecessary fight with that.

Ali's previous interactions with me were Camn's revenge, where I called multiple scum before being spoiled BEFORE elli's computer managed it, the Team Mafia Mod PT where we shittalked and both elli and smith said they thought I was good at town, and reviewing eir games.

Ali isn't me. E doesn't walk into a Large game where e can't just nightkill me and risk drawing my ire when every single piece of information about me e's heard is that I'm a semi retired boogeyman.


Also, tonally the presence e had in this thread is completely different to the presence e had in Stellaris, as scum, at exactly the same time.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

ngl I don't think I know alisae well enough to be able to just call this true and throw it to the back of my mind :V

[Ankamius]

that's also the type of read I'd probably forget in a couple days

I'm looking for reads I can continue to be confident in so I can start building proper solves without later getting concerned about the basis behind them

[Ankamius]

well I already know Enter is locktown

do you remember specific posts that support that conclusion from this game?

[Ankamius]

what are your general reads atm xtoxm?

[Ankamius]

remind me to get back to you tomorrow sometime jingle

I need to crash like asap

[Ankamius]

Enter chill please

[Ankamius]

So can I do my thing or are we just going to lollynch

[Ankamius]

creature what's your locktown list atm?

[Ankamius]

yes I'm town

[Ankamius]

yes I'm town

Show that

I need enough confident townreads to make up for the lack of nightkills, creature

I'm only at four right now.

[Ankamius]

sure

are you confident in Enter or Jingle at all? those are my other two confident townreads

[Ankamius]

I think Jingle would be more actively trying to push a narrative if he was scum here

even if he was waiting for the towncore to be ignited to start having a more active stance on the game, I still think he'd be looking to prepare for that ahead of time and I'm not seeing any signs of that either

I doubt he's scum unless my read on his playstyle is just wrong entirely.

I can't get over this though :/

I believe Jingle to be a competent enough scum to be able to do this while town is mostly incorrect, but he just... didn't.

this is a very passive scumgame for him if he's scum and I'm not sure that's his style at all, the two scumgames I saw from him in the past were definitely not like this.

try to defend his partner in a dwindling one

except my supposed partner has been my preferred lynch for like 3 days now.

that doesn't disprove my point at all though

I think you'd rather widen the lynchpool if your scumpartner was in the lynchpool than to stay lynching within that same pool.

if you entered the game with a DDL+grapes scumteam, what do you think would be the way the game would progress after N1?

I'd have turbobussed instead of rolling over on grapes, probably would have instigated a big blowup fight with PR in order to make it so people wouldn't listen to him about me, would have subtly undermined any forming townblocks, and would have turbobussed DDL for the cred.

I wouldn't have sat on my hands and let the thread play around me. I wouldn't have hardtownread Ali. I would have tried to convince em I was town. I would have put up more resistance to the wagons we had. And I would've done absolutely nothing to dismiss the ermagerd RC alive! paranoia that the town would have fallen to eventually. Seriously, lynching RC for the LYLO? Glorious.

okay good

yeah Jingle is town.

okay good

yeah Jingle is town

me = skeptical

his assessment is roughly correct

he's capable of helping prevent these townblocks from forming and pushing a narrative without looking like he's pushing a narrative

the problem is... if he is scum with DDL, he's basically played against what he knows would make it far more likely to get him a winning result than just letting 2/3 of the game townblock up and just rail through the rest of the playerlist without that extra input from him

and of course he's going to be under fire when people eventually start realizing that the game isn't as simple as it appears, he pretty blatantly is not really doing anything

that's not what I'd expect from his scumgame.

I'm pretty sure he'd care as scum

[Ankamius]

my two games worth of experience

1. police academy, he had the game on lockdown before I replaced in and had managed to get town into endless 1v1s while gaining enough townreads from the right people to stay out of the spotlight and to shield his more shaky scumpartners. definitely a mastermind-type game
2. succinct mafia, he replaced in and sacrificed himself to set up his partner to endgame

he tryharded both games and very clearly had a plan that he was putting into effect that was going as intended

I'm not seeing that same type of play from him this game, he's just sitting back.

[Ankamius]

Jingle makes sense as scum pretty much only if his partner is also in a very good spot basically

in this case I think he'd be looking to locktown his partner somehow or to double endgame, I don't think he'd just sit towards the middle like this

[Ankamius]

what was town about DT :V

[Ankamius]

that's one of the things I was scumreading

[Ankamius]

Creature do you have experience with Jingle-scum?

[Ankamius]

technically police academy wasa

but succinct was far less mechanical and he still played pretty similarly

[Ankamius]

I kinda remember townreading Vedith for stuff he did before that

[Ankamius]

wait maybe it was because I was able to follow his thought processes and it matched his reads at some point on day 3

afaik that's generally really town from him(?)

[Ankamius]

you can be my SO

[Ankamius]

you can be my SO

You have an SO.

:V

[Ankamius]

you can be my SO

You have an SO.

:V

:\/

:

V

[Ankamius]

I can't anymore

you win

[Ankamius]

I'll be everyone's SO

Denied.

:(

would you like a hug

[Ankamius]

would you like a hug

yus

[Ankamius]

I can't anymore

you win

You sound like duck

I'm tired of winning.

You win.

hey I put up a fight

I just lost

[Ankamius]

still don't think jingle is scum btw

[Ankamius]

ok so
or/xtoxm/mp/dann

ank

do you have more think you want to do or can someone hammer?

I need to go to the store before the HUGE BLIZZARD hits me but I'll look at some things afterwards

[Ankamius]

VOTE: FormerFish

[Ankamius]

I'm not done yet but I'm like 80% sure that's the lynch I want today

[Ankamius]

yeah FF is just objectively the best lynch I think

1. sweet spot of the middle of the grapes wagon
2. Alisae wagon at the start of D2 is literally (me+enter+flipped town), the Shoshin wagon blew up right afterwards
3. I strongly suspect that scum were on the BuJ wagon, but towards the beginning. RAS fits that bill.

I believe scum haven't been behind any major pushes this game, instead they are very likely the slots controlling the momentum of those wagons: Alisae-slot is in the spaces where it makes the most sense for scum to be for the wagons to operate the way they have. The scumteam has approached most days with trying to be support players rather than solvers or carries, this mostly fits with Alisae's playstyle from the little I've seen and RAS has had a little enough impact that it fits him too.

[Ankamius]

VOTE: FormerFish

Where's your progression here? I attempted to iso back to see it myself but got bored when I couldn't find mentions of scumreading my slot.

gamestate read.

[Ankamius]

Jingle is also Alisae's single highest likely partner

the locktown read makes sense.

[Ankamius]

of course the poe lynchbait pool is town

it's FormerFish + Jingle lol

[Ankamius]

then the game makes no sense.

that EXACT team fits the gamestate perfectly, and it makes sense with the feeling I had throughout D3 that there was scum towards the top end of the lynchpool that was waiting for the towncore to be obliterated to take over the town.

there's no need for that team to ignite because... well, why? town was stagnating and getting stuck on their lynchbait lynches, it also allows a better chance to muddy the douse order and ignite everyone in the towncore instead of just the active core, and it wouldn't even seem too strange that they aren't dead until they have to start dousing people below them.

[Ankamius]

if BOTH scum were in that range, then suddenly the game clicks.

no shit scum wouldn't ignite
no shit these lynches are lazy

scum don't need to try, they haven't really been in the spotlight enough to be worried.

[Ankamius]

no other team fits perfectly into the game like that one does

[Ankamius]

if Jingle is not Alisae's partner, it's Dannflor or or

[Ankamius]

no other team fits perfectly into the game like that one does

calm down sparky

p sure jingle has been trying at least somewhat

also they pushed each other

when and how strong was the pushing?

[Ankamius]

I'd much prefer it that way Enter

[Ankamius]

idk enough about their scumranges to really comment on that directly :/

I can't imagine it's exceptionally hard to forge a bus like that with how much of a shitfest day one was

[Ankamius]

do your thing enter

I'm going to get ready for food and sleep

[Ankamius]

dann has independent scum equity :/

[Ankamius]

I think Alisae's scumbuddy was clemency actually

Can you expand on this?

[Ankamius]

I'd have to look at what the other slots off the wagon were doing while the grapes wagon as building up to have a proper assessment of how many scum were on that wagon

[Ankamius]

ank might actually be right :?

we did it, folks

we finally got him to say it!!!

[Ankamius]

no ank is wrong she's dumb

oh no you don't

I'm sigging that postgame

[Ankamius]

Idk how I feel about that exchange

[Ankamius]

Is indigestion a valid answer

[Ankamius]

Is indigestion a valid answer

we were right the first time

you're right on your gamestate read

you're wrong on the person

... :/

[Ankamius]

Ask me to check it tomorrow enter

[Ankamius]

Damn it enter you know what I mean lol

[Ankamius]

Hi rc

I'm on my tablet but I'm here

[Ankamius]

I'm fine with [fish,jingle,or,myself] being the lynch pool

I feel good about fish flipping red

Ah
My b
"or" is such a terrible name

who on earth chooses "or" as a name

i hate this game

Btw thanks for the laugh

I really needed that

[Ankamius]

Hi rc

I'm on my tablet but I'm here

well i was hoping to do things with you privately

let's ask the mod for a PT

Could just add you to my private one :V

[Ankamius]

Yeah the scum pt is for my mental breakdowns at the stresses of playing scum

[Ankamius]

What are you confused about enter

[Ankamius]

I'm sitting at my kitchen table eating and looking at my tablet

My thinking cap is off for the night

Does that help :V

[Ankamius]

do you want to talk to me more yet

Yes I wanted you to keep talking the whole time why did you stop

I have to breathe enter

No you don't

Stop lying

[Ankamius]

Dannflor

What color are the fingers I am holding up?

[Ankamius]

GUILTY

to the gallows with you

[Ankamius]

Ok it's legit sleeping time

I'll re-read today tomorrow

[Ankamius]

Vedith is pretty town, I saw something in my recheck of the game that made me confident in it again

Enter what do you need me for?

[Ankamius]

let me get to my desktop and I'll relook

I might need a page number or range though, I woke up to over ten pages

[Ankamius]

have you been trying to get people to change my mind :V

[Ankamius]

oh...

shit, you got the thing you said you'd get at 48 hours didn't you :(