Fire on the Mountain [Over]

Dannflor · Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:41 am

In post 3686, Vedith wrote:You're just selective reading because you have a chip on your shoulder about me and I'm not sure why.

He doesn't like your play style

you are correct about AtE not being alignment indicative

you were correct about Shoshin

You being correct about Shoshin isn't alignment indicative because I don't think you put as much effort as you postured to in stopping that lynch

Dannflor · Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:43 am

This is not a productive conversation

@EE https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10635975

here's a game where Gamma comes in at post #132 and selectively comments on something not really game related

She was town

Dannflor · Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:46 am

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10669314

here's another game where Gamma made posts #58 and #88 that showed she wasn't really reading the thread and selectively responding to things

she was also town

Dannflor · Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:50 am

Vedith wagon feels like it came about because town is getting apathetic and just wants to make a decision on a slot that's easier to get a wagon going on than others

I don't think he's a very good lynch

Dannflor · Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:54 am

In post 3712, Vedith wrote:When I try to get motivation to get back into this game it basically gets instantly shut down.
I lost a lot of motivation for this game from yesterday and I still think that Scum just sat back and let town Lynch Shoshin and they are getting away with it.

If Eagle is going to intentionally Piss me off and actively want to prevent me from playing I'll do everyone a favour and replace out.

I actually think DDL is town and I'd move him further up my list.

Replace out

Sorry to see you go

I really do enjoy having you in my games even if I've found you difficult at times

Dannflor · Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:55 am

In post 3717, Ankamius wrote:Because it actually gets traction unlike every other wagon lol

yea

and it's on a slot that generally has less thread presence + has been floated as a lynch idea for a while

Dannflor · Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:57 am

In post 3719, Extrapolated Eagle wrote:Dann got traction,
Xtoxm got traction,
Liver might gain traction,
buj might gain traction

okay but the way votes came down on Vedith felt more like "we don't like what this slot is doing" over "this slot is scummy"

which is a much easier case to get people to agree on

Dannflor · Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:58 am

In post 3668, Xtoxm wrote:VOTE: vedith

i'll help this wagon just because he's failed to show any learning or courtesy on me
if i was wrong on sr a dude for 2-3 games in a row i'd at least go
"i'll leave this guy at null just cus ive been wrong on him so much"

I mean it looks like a policy lynch

Dannflor · Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:01 am

@xtoxm

, who do you think is scum? exclude Prince and Vedith

Dannflor · Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:03 am

In post 3725, Extrapolated Eagle wrote:You just quoted the guy who tried to push one of the townies players in the game earlier this game day

I mean I'm not really convinced your push on him wasn't mostly because you didn't like his contributions or posting style over genuinely believing he was scum either. I don't necessarily blame you for it, I just think it's different from other wagons so far in that there's less of an outright "case" and more of: this is annoying, let's just lynch it

Dannflor · Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:04 am

I'm really struggling with scum reads right now

re: Gamma. She played similarly in Merchant's Daughter but later ended up actually trying as well. I also think she tends to prefer scum to town iirc?

Dannflor · Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:08 am

In post 3249, Xtoxm wrote:Vedith - like others have said, tend to agree he would be doing more as scum. he usually sr me when im town.

You town read Vedith here? Vedith was also already voting you, which leads me to believe you did not find his sr on your AI at least. Why did you decide him scum reading you was scum indicative suddenly?

In post 3249, Xtoxm wrote:Jingle replaced Frozen Angel - scummy to me. not convinced that he believes some of the stances he's taking.

do you remember any specific stances Jingle has taken that you don't think he believes?

Dannflor · Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:16 am

In post 3743, Extrapolated Eagle wrote:this kinda deal doesn't always work out tho
and i'm kinda scared cuz scum could easily kill you + me + prince tonight

then I'll do it

Dannflor · Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:16 am

xtoxm answer me

Dannflor · Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:49 pm

Yea I changed my mind

VOTE: liger

max might just be town here

Dannflor · Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:41 pm

In post 3768, Liger_Zero wrote:
In post 3762, NerfedBuJ wrote:Fun with math:

Feel free to correct me if I made a mistake.

15 alive.
13:2 town:scum ratio

3 conftown players,
Leaves us with 10:2
We can afford 5 mislynches in the worst case scenario.

We will assume the following in order to calculate the odds in terms of worst case scenario, because anything else would only give us an even higher probability of winning.

Assumptions:
-People that are doused are never lynched
-Scum do not ignite within the suspect list until they can win (this makes the odds of hitting scum less, though we will still assume that we don't hit a doused player, because we are basing this on a 5 mislynch capacity, lynching a doused player would be an extra mislynch)

Odds of scum not getting lynched if random lynching (while avoiding doused players):

Day 3 (5 mislynches left, 0 doused within suspect list) - 10/12 = 83.3%
Day 4 (4 mislynches left, 0 doused within suspect list) - 9/11 = 81.8 % * 83.3% = 68.2%
Day 5 (3 mislynches left, 1 doused within suspect list) - 7/10 = 70% * 68.2% = 47.7%
Day 6 (2 mislynches left, 2 doused within suspect list) - 5/9 = 55.6% * 47.7% = 26.5%
Day 7 (1 mislynch left, 3 doused within suspect list) - 3/8 = 37.5% * 26.5% = 9.9%
Day 8 (lylo, 4 doused within suspect list) - 1/7 = 14% * 9.9% = 1.4%

1.4% that scum avoid the lynch 6 days in a row.
Scum win on Night 6.
If we assume 2 doused now.
There will be 5 doused on Night 6.

Current player list alive is 15. By Day 6, that is 11 left alive and after day over that is 10. Burn douses its 5 players.
Game ends with scum majority.

I think you're both wrong?

15 alive today
we lynch 1

With 14 alive on Night 3
there will be 13 alive on Night 4
12 alive on Night 5
11 on Night 6

On Night 6, scum will have already doused 5 players, and will douse an additional player that night for a total of 6. If they ignite on Night 6, they will kill 6 players.

There will then be 5 remaining, which is 3:2.

Night 7 is the earliest scum can end the game. Night 7 there will be 10 alive. Scum can kill 7 players that night, leaving 3. It will be 1:2 town to scum unless we manage to lynch scum on day 7, in which case it becomes 2:1 town to scum.

So Day 7 is LyLo.

So we have 1 less mislynch than Buj calculated, but scum can't end game on Night 6.

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:49 am

In post 3750, MaxwellPuckett wrote:I forgot Gamma was the same slot I should ISO them too
Kinda kno how to read gamma

interested in this

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:55 am

In post 3781, Liger_Zero wrote:Or we could go for Max instead because you agreed to me or Max.

who is scum besides max

is there anyone else in the game you would "trade" yourself for

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:59 am

In post 2916, DrDolittle wrote:guys lets have some conviction and consolidate on a lynch.

In post 3122, DrDolittle wrote:i want to omgus but im committed to wagon building VOTE: anka

Self vote, get into an argument, and replace out.
oof

He didn't push you he just voted you to build a wagon

which is consistent with his attitude all day and seems pretty townie

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:01 am

Spoiler:

he's also doing a good job of looking like he's sorting if he's scum

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:02 am

In post 3791, Liger_Zero wrote:when interest on him resurfaced

When did this happen?

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:09 am

The only point I can find where he avoided a wagon because "he liked them" was Vedith, and he ended up voting there anyway when he came back into the thread.

I'm not convinced your reasons for scum reading him are genuine.

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:14 am

In post 3796, Liger_Zero wrote:I am not convinced I said I scumread him and said he was maybe scum. But do go on.

In what world is "maybe-scum" not at the very least a lean-scum read?

You straight up said "Maybe DDL" in response to my question of who you would trade your lynch for.

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:29 am

In post 3800, Liger_Zero wrote:I swear if you come back with "I am just trying to sort you", I might just slap you.

I am just trying to sort you

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:29 am

no offense DDL but why would I want to pocket you here

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:34 am

What is your read on Vedith right now, Liger?

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:02 am

In post 3817, Ankamius wrote:Yeah idk how to feel about Dann going that far out of his way to towncase DDL, that feels really out of place

why?

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:19 am

In post 1353, grapes wrote:This happens like every game feels like; starting to wonder if it's me. :p
Anyway I rushed a little bit but I'm pretty up to speed now.

Jingle at least trying to dig that far into eagle's vedith tunnel isn't something you see from scum too much[glad he did because it really brought to light how contrived it turned out to be in spots like; nitpick the read. Why are you holding vedith of all people to this impossibly high standard where everything they're doing needs to be 100% telegraphed?

eagles also the worst vote on my wagon ; runner up is ali

Rei is town.
Prince is town.
shoshin... meh? gotta be honest this read is up and down every other page feels like and id almost flip it for that reason alone
VOTE: eagle

luke-warm take: Grapes avoided mentioning his scum buddies at all in this post - he's going down, why leave associations?

meaning jingle and vedith and ali are all town

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:22 am

In post 0, northsidegal wrote:The Arsonist factional PT will always be open.

With a wagon building that fast on scum

they're gonna strategize a least a little bit

there's probably at least one bus unless the wagon built too fast for them to keep up

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:28 am

In post 601, grapes wrote:VOTE: Nerfedbuj
About time boys

In post 611, grapes wrote:buj flips scum a lot of the time people

In post 614, grapes wrote:My intuition

In post 1353, grapes wrote:This happens like every game feels like; starting to wonder if it's me. :p
Anyway I rushed a little bit but I'm pretty up to speed now.

Jingle at least trying to dig that far into eagle's vedith tunnel isn't something you see from scum too much[glad he did because it really brought to light how contrived it turned out to be in spots like; nitpick the read. Why are you holding vedith of all people to this impossibly high standard where everything they're doing needs to be 100% telegraphed?

eagles also the worst vote on my wagon ; runner up is ali

Rei is town.
Prince is town.
shoshin... meh? gotta be honest this read is up and down every other page feels like and id almost flip it for that reason alone
VOTE: eagle

Why does Grapes go from hard pushing Buj to not mentioning him at all in his catch-up and then voting obv town

I really don't think he was distancing anyone in this post, he's just flinging around any names that aren't his buddies

In post 1361, northsidegal wrote:
Votecount 1.18

grapes(6)
~ Reiuji Utsuho⁽⁶⁸⁾, Extrapolated Eagle⁽²²⁹⁾, Prince of Renais⁽¹³¹⁾, Jingle⁽¹⁶³⁾, Alisae⁽¹⁴⁴⁾, Shoshin⁽¹⁵⁶⁾

Shoshin(3)
~ Lycanfire⁽²⁰⁾, NerfedBuJ⁽³⁴⁾, Clemency⁽¹²⁾

NerfedBuJ(2)
~ Vedith⁽⁸⁵⁾, DrDolittle⁽⁴⁰⁾

Reiuji Utsuho(1)
~ mcqueen⁽¹⁹⁾

Prince of Renais(1)
~ Xtoxm⁽²¹⁾

Extrapolated Eagle(1)
~ grapes⁽²⁰⁾

Not Voting (3): Gamma Emerald⁽¹⁸⁾, Dannflor⁽¹⁴⁹⁾, Karmeleon⁽²⁶⁾

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2019-03-19 22:19:59)

I'm trying out a different way of displaying the post counts. Please let me know if you have any thoughts.

The Buj wagon was at 3 votes before he moved, why hop off if it was a counterwagon on town? Specifically, why hop off to someone that's never going to gain any traction vs. a counter wagon that still had some supporters? He mentions the other wagon at the time, Shoshin in his post too, saying he'd be willing to lynch it. But doesn't say a thing about Buj

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:29 am

In post 3826, Ankamius wrote:
In post 3821, Dannflor wrote:
In post 3817, Ankamius wrote:Yeah idk how to feel about Dann going that far out of his way to towncase DDL, that feels really out of place
why?
Why did you feel the need to?

I felt it necessary to understand whether Liger was fabricating a scum read or not

I don't think he was anymore but I would not have been able to say with certainty unless I pushed him on that point

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:30 am

In post 3825, Extrapolated Eagle wrote:
In post 3809, Ankamius wrote:You don't feel like the way these wagons have shifted and stalled is weird?
Everything about this game is weird.

I don't think I've ever done this much fence sitting as town in my mafia career combined.

TBQH I'm kinda lost and trying to figure out how to handle it. If you know what you're doing, input is greatly appreciated.

does it help at all if I say I'm rethinking everything and selling myself on Buj scum rnow

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:32 am

Okay let me unveil my other theory about when I came into the game

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:54 am

In post 3841, NerfedBuJ wrote:Looks like grapes is not as bad at scum as I thought.

You think he intentionally framed you?

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:56 am

In post 3842, Dannflor wrote:
In post 3841, NerfedBuJ wrote:Looks like grapes is not as bad at scum as I thought.
You think he intentionally framed you?

because that would be a weird thing to jump to

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:06 am

Okay wait I need to know something before I possibly go down a rabbit hole

@Bujaber,

why do you town read me?

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:43 am

In post 3846, NerfedBuJ wrote:Because your posts have been townie and you seem actively invested in progressing the game.

Is there anything more specific than this

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:46 am

In post 3848, Prince of Renais wrote:I think the interactions make xtoxm look way worse than buj

elaborate?

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:54 am

For me I've been having a hard time separating which parts of your push on him was an emotional response to his attack on your person vs. a genuine scum read

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:57 am

it's not towny no

but I feel like scum would feel pressured to interact/do more than that here though

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:59 am

Liger, where does your town read on xtoxm come from?

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:09 am

In post 3869, Liger_Zero wrote:
In post 3866, Dannflor wrote:Liger, where does your town read on xtoxm come from?
His reaction to Prince

Are you referring to this post or something else?

Spoiler:

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:11 am

In post 2973, Liger_Zero wrote:Not interested in a xtoxm lynch right now

I'm just curious because you were against the push on him before that blowup/reaction happened despite apparently not having an opinion on him then

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:17 am

I just don't understand why you'd be explicitly against a lynch you have no opinion on when you've had a very small amount of scum reads

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:18 am

I could lynch xtoxm

I need Buj to get back to me tho

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:20 am

ok

VOTE: xtoxm

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:21 am

I don't think I rate Liger as scum either

scum needs a much larger lynch pool than he is trying to create in order to win this game

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:23 am

how does liger flip influence your xtoxm read

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:25 am

In post 3894, Extrapolated Eagle wrote:liger flip scum
xtoxm is next
liger flip town

xtoxm looks slightly better

does it work the other way around

like xtoxm town flip makes liger look slightly better?

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:25 am

In post 3897, Liger_Zero wrote:
In post 3896, Prince of Renais wrote:Definitely not lynching liger if their townflip makes you not vote xtoxm
You just don't want to be responsible for townflips lol

I thought you townread xtoxm

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:30 am

In post 3902, Liger_Zero wrote:
In post 3899, Dannflor wrote:
In post 3897, Liger_Zero wrote:
In post 3896, Prince of Renais wrote:Definitely not lynching liger if their townflip makes you not vote xtoxm
You just don't want to be responsible for townflips lol
I thought you townread xtoxm
I am. What does that have to do with this? I feel like we have a constant communication barrier here dann and I am starting to get you are intentionally doing this.

I literally

never
ever

intentionally misrepresent or misinterpret posts regardless of my alignment

I do not understand what you are getting at in 3897. Would he not be 'responsible' for a townflip in xtoxm if that lynch went through?

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:32 am

In post 3912, Extrapolated Eagle wrote:instead of 1 scum getting lynched before the entire towncore is slaughtered tonight

I don't think scum ignites before endgame tbh

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:33 am

there's been too much paranoia thrown around for scum to drastically decrease the pool of players in which there might be scum

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:34 am

depends on who they have doused too, probably not worth discussing

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:46 am

In post 3760, northsidegal wrote:
Votecount 3.7

Liger_Zero(5)
~ Reiuji Utsuho⁽⁸⁵⁾, MaxwellPuckett⁽⁶⁸⁾, Extrapolated Eagle⁽¹⁹⁷⁾, DrDolittle⁽⁹⁸⁾, Dannflor⁽⁹³⁾

Xtoxm(3)
~ mcqueen⁽²⁵⁾, Vedith⁽⁴⁹⁾, Prince of Renais⁽¹²⁸⁾

Vedith(1)
~ NerfedBuJ⁽³⁸⁾

Prince of Renais(1)
~ Xtoxm⁽⁴⁷⁾

NerfedBuJ(1)
~ Ankamius⁽¹⁴³⁾

MaxwellPuckett(1)
~ Liger_Zero⁽¹⁰⁶⁾

DrDolittle(1)
~ Jingle⁽⁹⁰⁾

Ankamius(1)
~ Karmeleon⁽⁸⁸⁾

Not Voting (1): RAS⁽⁴⁶⁾

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2019-04-05 16:49:59)

Searching for a replacement for Vedith.

I think that's L-2. Add me + Jingle + Ank to xtoxm

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:12 am

I don't think Liger gives as much information as you claim

and I don't think he flips scum very often

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:59 pm

The case on Liger is that people don't like Gamma's posts and Liger hasn't been blindingly obv town

But the thing is, Gamma has been lurky mislynch bait in virtually every single game I've played with her (sorry Gamma), and I've only see her really try hard as scum

I don't think Gamma's ISO is that damning and I really don't think Liger leaves enough associations to be a good "information lynch," not that I would ever advocate for an information lynch anyway

Like I know there's a lot of apathy going on right now and lots of "oh well it doesn't really matter in which order we lynch they all have to go"

I will fully admit I'm not 100% on any one lynch right as Enter said this is one of the fencesittiest games I've ever played

However, there's a number of things Liger has said and done today that just gut town ping me - I do not think he's the best lynch

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:01 pm

I would rather lynch Max over you at this point I think

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:02 pm

In post 3977, Xtoxm wrote:scum!me never passes on a hammer on town!liger there btw
as much as scum!rc will try to tell you otherwise

what

you would literally just get lynched tomorrow

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:05 pm

In post 3980, Liger_Zero wrote:
In post 3979, Ankamius wrote:VOTE: NerfedBuJ

Can we go back to this please
No.

like does scum!Liger ever make this post while at L-2 or whatever

he could just stay silent and hop the wagon dissapates

he wouldn't care whether it's max or Buj that gets lynched

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:10 pm

It's 50/50

I'd rather lynch Max, but the momentum and interest is here and I don't have the energy to fight Prince on it

I can see Buj as scum but if he is I think Max has a good chance of being his partner, so would still rather there first

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:18 pm

In post 3988, Ankamius wrote:BuJ is that kind of player I suspect would get pushed back into the townblock if he doesn't get lynched sooner rather than later, and all it really takes is both Eagle and myself being ignited for all these associatives to be completely forgotten since I don't think anybody else in this playerlist would ever look back at that and how he continues throughout the game.

I mean, I would

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:20 pm

VOTE: Buj

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:25 pm

ok I'm gonna post my theory now even though it's probably just stupid and crazy because I don't wanna have typed it up for nothing

Buj still hasn't gotten back to me but \o/ fuck it

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:27 pm

Jingle is town because he was paranoid about me and scum read me when I entered the game, full stop. There are a lot of other reasons and specific posts that have town pinged me since then. But that is one main reason I think he is town.

Specifically being paranoid about me because of No Deadlines is a town instinct imo, and his criticism and comparison of my posts to that game was legit enough from his pov that I really do think it comes from town looking for similarities rather than scum looking for an excuse to drive a mislynch. If he wanted to use No Deadlines as an "excuse" to scum read me, he could've just done that, but he didn't do that.

EE is also town for this. While he defended me, he did so in order to sort me and certainly hasn't treated me as obvious or conf town without any reconsideration.

In general, I do believe scum is more likely to give me an easy town read, the average scum at least. Scum have to fake reads and for a lot of slots they'll go for whatever is easiest. In general, my posting style is just easier to read as town. It's easy to look at my posts and just be like, hey that seems town. It takes more effort to scum read me than town read me if that makes any sense at all. Scum can and have done it, but it's usually more effort to actually read all the words I'm saying and figure out how to frame it as scummy

Here are most of the lowest effort town reads I could find on me from immediately after I replaced in:

In post 1498, Karmeleon wrote:
In post 1477, Extrapolated Eagle wrote:If Dannflor leads on scum, Dannflor is scum.
DoubtingThomas was pretty town.

DT was town, so I am town. Okay, that's actually okay, Karm doesn't really comment on my posts but there's not a need.

In post 1600, mcqueen wrote:Like these reads and Eagles play as of late. I agree with his 1553 as well; I think Dannflor is town

Eh, lazy. Unclear whether Mcqueen town read DT or not previously.

In post 1536, DrDolittle wrote:out of these, I don't think its gamma - he just hasn't been online to push for an alternate wagon. I don't think its Kameleon. That teletubby gif is not a scum post. I don't think its Dann. Replacing in he would have had a higher urgency to move to either bus or rile up a counterwagon.

The best town read on me (oops I'm still pocketing DDL lol). Town reads me for a specific action, or in this case non-action.

In post 1620, NerfedBuJ wrote:Dann's post TRing me was strange and scummy, but I admit I'm having a hard time believing he's scum when
his other posts seem townie enough
and even more importantly, he replaced DT, a townie slot.

and then this is the one I kinda have an adverse reaction to

Would have been fine if he just stuck with his DT town read and called it that, but he had to justify the "strange and scummy" post by me that had been pointed out by saying my other posts seemed townie enough is just weird and vague

Especially when you consider he later asked me what happened to my "no nonsense scum-hunting attitude" it doesn't make sense why he would drop the pressure on me so readily, since he's played with me before

I asked him why he town read me again earlier today and it's just more vaguries

In post 3846, NerfedBuJ wrote:Because your posts have been townie and you seem actively invested in progressing the game.

I really think someone town reading me at this point would have something more specific than just my style and how I "seem," because that's stuff which can be faked

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:28 pm

is that conf biasing

maybe

but I think it's more likely scum have had me pocketed than have been pushing me

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:32 pm

In post 4003, Ankamius wrote:it's entirely possible that he's specifically playing for keeping you around all game, Dann

that's basically what I'm worried about

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:33 pm

especially because I'm definitely mislynchable over him in a scenario where I make it to lylo and town core is gone

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:35 pm

In post 3841, NerfedBuJ wrote:Looks like grapes is not as bad at scum as I thought.

I also hate this post but I'm in serious danger of conf biasing at this point

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:53 pm

RAS is probably town

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:04 pm

In post 4042, mcqueen wrote:WHens deadline i need time to meta check buj but honestly i think hes town.

we have like 5 days but I'd rather not wait that long to end the day

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:05 pm

In post 4044, Ankamius wrote:didn't BuJ say at one point that he plays differently in every scumgame

I swear I saw that at some point this game

yes

In post 3614, NerfedBuJ wrote:I've played over 10 scum games on my main. I think I've played differently in each of them.

Truth is I hate playing scum, I am not confident at it, so I try so many different things so that I eventually build an arsenal of tools I am able to do comfortably as scum. At that point my scum meta might be less random.

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:30 pm

enter no

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:36 pm

In post 4063, Extrapolated Eagle wrote:who has taken stances on buj
srs question

vedith, myself, both you and ank, DDL, mcqueen just said he was town

like, he was a primary wagon early day 1?

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:53 pm

In post 939, northsidegal wrote:
Votecount 1.13

NerfedBuJ(4)
~ Vedith(84), DrDolittle(37), grapes(16), Shoshin(102)

Shoshin(2)
~ Lycanfire(10), NerfedBuJ(27)

PvtUrist(2)
~ Jingle(125), Extrapolated Eagle(161)

Lycanfire(1)
~ mcqueen(4)

Gamma Emerald(1)
~ PvtUrist(14)

Extrapolated Eagle(1)
~ Alisae(103)

DoubtingThomas(1)
~ Xtoxm(18)

Alisae(1)
~ DoubtingThomas(118)

Not Voting (4): Gamma Emerald(18), Reiuji Utsuho(47), Clemency(10), Karmeleon(26)

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2019-03-19 22:19:59)

Prodding Lycanfire.

PvtUrist has requested replacement. Searching for a replacement now.

In post 1333, northsidegal wrote:
Votecount 1.17

grapes(5)
~ Reiuji Utsuho(67), Extrapolated Eagle(227), Prince of Renais(125), Jingle(163), Alisae(141)

Shoshin(3)
~ Lycanfire(18), NerfedBuJ(34), Clemency(12)

NerfedBuJ(3)
~ Vedith(85), DrDolittle(38), grapes(19)

Prince of Renais(1)
~ Xtoxm(21)

Lycanfire(1)
~ mcqueen(16)

DoubtingThomas(1)
~ Shoshin(152)

Alisae(1)
~ DoubtingThomas(147)

Not Voting (2): Gamma Emerald(18), Karmeleon(26)

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2019-03-19 22:19:59)

Buj wagon existed before grapes

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:57 pm

In post 4072, Ankamius wrote:The only likely bussers of grapes left is Maxslot and BuJ

and I think there had to be at least 1 bus on the wagon

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:45 pm

In post 4081, NerfedBuJ wrote:so I'm being punished for being right? You replaced DT anyway. I don't need to build a towncase on you by looking at posts and quoting them and explaining to everyone why scum don't make them.
Not when nobody thinks you're scum.

That isn't true

Several people have pushed me as scum this game

I'm not asking you to town case me, I'm just asking if you have a specific reason to town read me beyond just "my posts seeming townie"

It's been made clear by Jingle (and Enter ig) that I'm capable of faking posts that get generally town read (deserved or not is another debate), so I'm surprised there hasn't been more paranoia from you towards my slot, especially given my entrance which you said was scummy

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:50 pm

In post 4081, NerfedBuJ wrote:I don't feel particularly motivated to quote specific things from x pages ago just to reiterate a town read on you

I don't even need you to do this just like

I feel like you've never tried to sort me despite my slot being one that a lot of players are trying to sort

I have no idea for what reasons you think my posts are townie

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:51 pm

In post 4087, Reiuji Utsuho wrote:
In post 4076, Ankamius wrote:Most of his posting around that time is defending himself or that, I could see that coming from scum!him being content with where the gamestate is sitting
I think if I was BuJ and J was scum I wouldn't be content with the gamestate? Like, "spending most of his time defending" and "content with the gamestate" doesn't mesh.

In post 4089, Reiuji Utsuho wrote:Like if he is spending his time having to defend himself and yet he feels content with the game state that's more town if anything.

Ank was wrong.

Buj hasn't had to defend himself until, basically now.

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:00 pm

In post 4103, Extrapolated Eagle wrote:there isn't really resistance to like anything here

really because I'm reading it the opposite

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:01 pm

In post 4107, Reiuji Utsuho wrote:if the dude is being attacked enough to focus on defending himself

this didn't happen though

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:03 pm

it's a mountainous that's almost fucking nightless and it's exhausting

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:08 pm

In post 4121, Extrapolated Eagle wrote:i claim lyncher
my lynch target is liger

if you help me lynch my target i'll work w/ town for the rest of the game

i claim reverse lyncher

my never lynch target is liger

don't lynch him and ill win the game for town

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:08 pm

In post 4126, Extrapolated Eagle wrote:that's true
it's called a policy lynchj
another policy lynch is lynch all lurkers
gamma is a lurker

let's lynch

gamma always lurks

liger is not a lurker

policy lynches are dumb

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:22 pm

There once was a wagon on liger
who enter thought was a great big liar
but so did buj
and it was quite huge
so hammer already im gonna tire

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:30 pm

Enter

you are on the liger wagon with Buj and Max

that is your company

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:31 pm

this is all so very useless

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:32 pm

In post 4216, Extrapolated Eagle wrote:if buj flips town
i'm pushing in (mcqueen/liger/xtoxm) pool tomorrow, i think
buj flips scum i think we just lynch max

VOTE: buj

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:36 pm

mcqueen and enter you are both town

please dear god this is painful to read

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:40 pm

In post 4241, Liger_Zero wrote:I KNOW WHAT THE MOD WILL POST!!!!

wow enter you were right he is scum would you look at that

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:40 pm

time to play the "how much shitposting can I do in twilight" game

Dannflor · Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:42 pm

hey enter it's ok

I get the feeling we're all kinda burned out

it's gonna be ok

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:53 pm

I'm glad everyone is still alive

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:56 pm

I think that's still not productive.

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:59 pm

The last several pages before the flip last night was not productive.

I think you and mcqueen are both town and I'm not sure a spar is going to help you guys sort each other based on how last night went.

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:03 pm

Like, I think your scum reads on each other are emotional rather than logical and I don't think either side's emotions are faked or scum.

If you think it'll help you sort him I won't stop you, I just want to prevent 10+ pages of you guys flinging shit at each other.

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:14 pm

In post 4281, Extrapolated Eagle wrote:I'm not interested in why you're dismissive of my scumread, though, I'm fascinated by why you're townreading him.

I'm not dismissing your scum read. I was dismissing most of the interaction that happened before twilight because I saw it as TvT bitching. Elaborate on your scum read? Is it mostly that he's just within your PoE or do you have other specific reasons?

I think I've already explained my town read on him but I'll reiterate it in a minute. I just needed to know your scum read wasn't clouded by anything.

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:16 pm

In post 4283, Prince of Renais wrote:i'm so, so sick of people with dogshit reads abusing the fact that their complete inability to play scum gets them locktowned to supercede my reads and lynch town

I'm sorry we fucked up yesterday

but this isn't a productive line of dialogue and this game is still very much winnable

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:20 pm

In post 3294, mcqueen wrote:Im doing nothing mostly because im lazy, but im also not interested in getting involved to the level that we’ve had multiple arguments throughout the game now.

EE, this was the post that had me start town reading mcqueen. I understand both town and scum can be apathetic, but 9/10 scum is afraid to blatantly say shit like this.

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:29 pm

In post 4289, Extrapolated Eagle wrote:The end of day push for Buj to be lynched when he saw me waiting it out to see if anyone would hammer and still pushing to see if I could get Liger or xtoxm lynched makes me think he's likely scum with one of them. The end of day push looked like very much an opportunistic push, and I think the only reason he's getting town read for it is because of how hard he pushed it. I expressed very townie reasons for waiting that wagon out, but he dismissed them as me trying to look town instead of finish the wagon.

I'll reread this. I was very burnt out at EoD and my eyes kinda glazed over for a lot of the fighting.

Basically, it's key whether or not his push on you is real. I thought it was vaguely weird when it happened because... Literally no one has tried to push you in a long time and you're lock town in a lot of people's eyes, so his confidence seemed misplaced. I attributed it to just high emotions at the end of a long day but that might have been hasty of me.

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:30 pm

In post 4288, Prince of Renais wrote:not calling mcqueen scum

but that's not a read.

In post 4290, Extrapolated Eagle wrote:
In post 4286, Dannflor wrote:
In post 3294, mcqueen wrote:Im doing nothing mostly because im lazy, but im also not interested in getting involved to the level that we’ve had multiple arguments throughout the game now.
EE, this was the post that had me start town reading mcqueen. I understand both town and scum can be apathetic, but 9/10 scum is afraid to blatantly say shit like this.
This kind of boldness and honesty is the reason people townread me in 2059, or at least part of it, I think. It's one of the things that makes the game easy as scum - being honest on things like this so you can lie about your reads. This isn't a viable reason to be townreading him right now.

A valid reason to be scumreading him is the fact that he flipped from townreading me all game to scumreading me
and flipped from townreading Buj all game to pushing for his lynch.

Fair.

I'll reread.

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:37 pm

In post 4294, Extrapolated Eagle wrote:should be noted that this was said to rei, not me, but let's consider that scum are already PoE'd - it's important for them to break up the townblock, the fact that mcqueen is now pushing for scum in the town block and it doesn't matter whether or not it's one of these three names or me should be ringing alarm bells pretty loudly
at this point in the game rei and prince are conftown, IMO, putting them in a lynch pool looks like scum trying to get paranoia points and maybe convince people to lynch outside the current PoE

I also just noticed he shaded Ankamius randomly here as well:

In post 4122, mcqueen wrote:and to whoever asked why i would meta check buj... hmm idk maybe since he was town in our last game together if his playstyle here is similar he might be town. EVEN if his scum play is different every game

love how ank randomly throws me in a scumpile too

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:37 pm

Who, despite yesterday, is still very town.

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:39 pm

In post 4297, Liger_Zero wrote:You guys are obsessed with your townblock.

Should we not be?

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:39 pm

In post 4299, Prince of Renais wrote:
In post 1346, mcqueen wrote:So there’s scum in {PR, Alisae, and Rei} ? Scum team found already ?

In post 1355, mcqueen wrote:dang got em VOTE: Rei.

Seriously tho im pretty sure at least one scum is in those three if not more.

In post 1356, mcqueen wrote:Lemme throw it out there that while Eagles play is bad i think its bad town and anyone voting him is looking scummy rn. Yes you grapes
worst sequence of 3 posts in this game. calls everyone voting grapes scum then shades grapes for... voting eagle.

I called this out earlier but Rei said he was joke voting ...

but apparently:

In post 4175, mcqueen wrote:Well throw that out the window or ill push u. Dont think i forgot or was joking earlier when i said theres scum in (you, prince, alisae)

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:41 pm

In post 4042, mcqueen wrote:WHens deadline i need time to meta check buj but honestly i think hes town.

In post 4122, mcqueen wrote:and to whoever asked why i would meta check buj... hmm idk maybe since he was town in our last game together if his playstyle here is similar he might be town. EVEN if his scum play is different every game

love how ank randomly throws me in a scumpile too

In post 4128, mcqueen wrote:fuck it VOTE: nerfedbuj

In post 4130, mcqueen wrote:someone fucking hammer

In post 4131, mcqueen wrote:do it

In post 4132, mcqueen wrote:plz

This progression doesn't make sense either.

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:42 pm

In post 4301, Liger_Zero wrote:
In post 4300, Dannflor wrote:
In post 4297, Liger_Zero wrote:You guys are obsessed with your townblock.
Should we not be?
No not really.

Why not?

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:42 pm

mcqueen/Liger feels like too easy of a solve.

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:45 pm

In post 4310, Liger_Zero wrote:mcqueen is probably town

Okay, now I get to ask: Why?

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:46 pm

I'm trying to give Liger a chance to actually contribute instead of just snarking and throwing shade but it doesn't look like it's happening.

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:46 pm

In post 4313, Liger_Zero wrote:
In post 4312, Dannflor wrote:
In post 4310, Liger_Zero wrote:mcqueen is probably town
Okay, now I get to ask: Why?
I actually don't have a reason. And you can scumread me for that if you want.

So, like gut?

Or is it just to be contrary

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:47 pm

In post 4317, Liger_Zero wrote:I am contributing to stopping you three from this group think mentality you have going on which i am sure will blow up in all of your faces but this is what happened with Buj. But sure, just write me off if you want.

The problem is, it doesn't actually contribute if you don't actually offer anything else to consider.

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:53 pm

In post 4320, Liger_Zero wrote:I just asked you what happens to your scumreads if mcqueen is town in this scenario, and then you wanted to ask me why.

xtoxm becomes more likely. I don't think mcqueen and xtoxm are S/S.

You and mcqueen could be S/S.

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:55 pm

In post 4327, Prince of Renais wrote:
In post 4326, Dannflor wrote:I don't think mcqueen and xtoxm are S/S.
lol

Based mainly on mcqueen being on and fine with the xtoxm wagon even as it grew large but freaking out and pushing for the day to end when Liger became a serious threat.

I could be wrong but that's where I'm pulling that from.

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:55 pm

In post 4331, Dannflor wrote:Liger became a serious threat.

Liger wagon*

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:02 pm

Okay, that's fair. I was looking at the VCs mainly.

In post 3960, northsidegal wrote:
Votecount 3.8

Liger_Zero(7)
~ Reiuji Utsuho⁽⁸⁷⁾, MaxwellPuckett⁽⁶⁸⁾, Extrapolated Eagle⁽²²⁰⁾, DrDolittle⁽¹⁰⁰⁾, NerfedBuJ⁽⁴⁸⁾, Ankamius⁽¹⁶⁹⁾, RAS⁽⁴⁷⁾

Xtoxm(5)
~ mcqueen⁽²⁶⁾, Vedith⁽⁶⁶⁾, Prince of Renais⁽¹⁴⁸⁾, Jingle⁽⁹⁵⁾, Dannflor⁽¹³⁴⁾

Prince of Renais(1)
~ Xtoxm⁽⁴⁹⁾

MaxwellPuckett(1)
~ Liger_Zero⁽¹⁵⁵⁾

Ankamius(1)
~ Karmeleon⁽⁸⁸⁾

Not Voting (0):

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2019-04-05 16:49:59)

Prodding Karmeleon.

In post 4203, northsidegal wrote:
Votecount 3.10

NerfedBuJ(6)
~ Ankamius⁽¹⁹⁷⁾, Dannflor⁽¹⁶³⁾, DrDolittle⁽¹⁰⁶⁾, RAS⁽⁵⁴⁾, Jingle⁽¹⁰⁰⁾, Liger_Zero⁽²⁰²⁾

Liger_Zero(3)
~ MaxwellPuckett⁽⁷²⁾, NerfedBuJ⁽⁵¹⁾, Extrapolated Eagle⁽²⁶⁸⁾

Xtoxm(2)
~ Vedith⁽⁶⁶⁾, Prince of Renais⁽¹⁵¹⁾

Prince of Renais(1)
~ Xtoxm⁽⁵²⁾

Extrapolated Eagle(1)
~ mcqueen⁽⁶¹⁾

Ankamius(1)
~ Karmeleon⁽⁸⁸⁾

Not Voting (1): Reiuji Utsuho⁽¹⁰⁸⁾

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2019-04-05 16:49:59)

In post 4263, northsidegal wrote:
Votecount 3.FINAL

NerfedBuJ(8)
~ Ankamius⁽¹⁹⁷⁾, Dannflor⁽¹⁶⁷⁾, DrDolittle⁽¹⁰⁶⁾, RAS⁽⁵⁴⁾, Jingle⁽¹⁰⁰⁾, Liger_Zero⁽²¹²⁾, Extrapolated Eagle⁽²⁸⁰⁾, mcqueen⁽⁷¹⁾
-- HAMMER

Xtoxm(2)
~ Vedith⁽⁶⁶⁾, Prince of Renais⁽¹⁵¹⁾

Liger_Zero(2)
~ MaxwellPuckett⁽⁸⁰⁾, NerfedBuJ⁽⁵¹⁾

Prince of Renais(1)
~ Xtoxm⁽⁵²⁾

Ankamius(1)
~ Karmeleon⁽⁸⁸⁾

Not Voting (1): Reiuji Utsuho⁽¹¹¹⁾

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2019-04-05 16:49:59)

mcqueen was the first vote on an xtoxm wagon that already had support from Prince but not much else. Maybe he suspected you'd be able to strongarm it through and he wanted to get on the bus early?

Otherwise, he wants to push a mislynch and then jumps around a bunch in panic as the Liger wagon grows (from RAS to EE) and then finally hammers Buj before the wagons can shift again.

The thing that struck me was just how much he hopped from wagon to wagon towards EoD and that sort of strikes me as scum being scared of getting caught by VCA? Which I feel like only happens if his buddy was about to by lynched.

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:05 pm

Night.

Yea, I can see how if they're the team, with you bearing down on one of them that mcqueen forcing himself onto the wagon early would probably be their best strategy.

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:08 pm

VOTE: mcqueen

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:10 pm

In post 4345, Liger_Zero wrote:I will admit mcqueen freakout on eagle seemed very overdone. But I don't want to be on this consensus that mcqueen is scum. Think its going to cause another mislynch.

I'm guessing you think that because yesterday went poorly and you're leery of too-easy consensuses.

Who else is scum? Is Max still your only scum read?

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:12 pm

In post 4347, Liger_Zero wrote:I am leaning heavily that scum are in the "townblock". Gonna be fun to have my head chewed of for that. That is a good explanation for why no ignition at least, not sure why you want to have so many people around that people see as locktown other than to rely on the paranoia that festers when you have less people you can lynch to work with.

I guess mechanically igniting early is sub-optimal, additionally it serves to withhold information and increase paranoia like this, so that's also an explanation.

Last night only 3 players could have been ignited. Even if scum takes out Ank/EE/Prince, that still leaves a fair amount of consensus town reads and such kills would only reinforce the idea that we're on the right track with the townblock and PoE.

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:21 pm

In post 4352, Liger_Zero wrote:mechanically seems neutral considering they can ignite 3 times, and they have 3 doused so far and can douse while they ignite. So last night seemed like a good time to take out three hard lock town. I don't see any other reason not to do it unless they believe the locktown are going to be useless or they are in it. So pick your poison i guess.

Because it reduces the lynch pool. Even if you take out the core town block, the next day more players from the town block will just take their place. RAS/Karm/Rei or something would be the new core. So now you have a new untouchable core but less slots to lynch from, which means a greater chance of hitting scum. The more slots there are, the better scum have a chance at hiding and actually disrupting the town block due to paranoia. The longer mafia waits to ignite, the better game state they can create.

And, obviously, by yesterday's lynch, supposedly consensus town reads aren't untouchable.

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:25 pm

In post 4362, Liger_Zero wrote:I don't think a new townblock would form that easily, but that is kind of speculation that i am not sure is true or not.

I think by killing part of the town block, you basically confirm that their reads are on the right track.

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:27 pm

In post 4359, Prince of Renais wrote:"let's lynch towny players so that we get more mislynches"

I thought you were going to bed

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:37 pm

I think Prince and EE are doused and the third could be a number of people tbh.

Dannflor · Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:37 pm

In post 4369, Dannflor wrote:I think Prince and EE are doused

and no we're not lynching here

Dannflor · Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:40 am

In post 4389, mcqueen wrote:Most agree on that; however, most are mad at ME for trying to coordinate SOME type of lynch when the rest of the townblock has been shown to lack this ability? IIRC TWICE yesterday was someone at L-1 with no hammer. Do you really think town is going to win with a bunch of indecisiveness floating around? While BuJ’s lynch may have been wrong, it is the precursor to picking a lynch as a block and sticking with it - the way it should be - win or lose.

The problem with that narrative is you randomly jumped onto both RAS and EE yesterday in what were essentially vanity votes/pushes. Hardly seems that you were trying your best to coordinate a lynch, especially since you did this as consensus was finally starting to come about.

Dannflor · Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:41 am

mcqueen, do you still scum read EE?

Dannflor · Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:47 am

In post 4372, Vedith wrote:I'm not convinced on McQueen. Someone explain it for me?

Sure. It comes down to these 3 posts being the worst progression in the entire game:

In post 1346, mcqueen wrote:So there’s scum in {PR, Alisae, and Rei} ? Scum team found already ?

In post 1355, mcqueen wrote:dang got em VOTE: Rei.

Seriously tho im pretty sure at least one scum is in those three if not more.

In post 1356, mcqueen wrote:Lemme throw it out there that while Eagles play is bad i think its bad town and anyone voting him is looking scummy rn. Yes you grapes

He votes Rei yet simultaneously calls grapes scummy while his wagon is at 6 votes. (this is also just after grapes' infamous catch-up post) It looks like scum hoping they don't have to bus but know they can't outright ignore the wagon.

Additionally, mcqueen goes from asking for more time to meta Buj yesterday, to dropping that and strong-arming EE into hammering, despite simultaneously pushing two other random/vanity slots at this same time.

Dannflor · Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:48 am

In post 4390, mcqueen wrote:And if I get lynched for that cause, then I’m honestly not too upset about it, either.

This is such a massive miss-rep of why people are voting you.

Dannflor · Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:56 am

In post 4396, Liger_Zero wrote:Seems like a weird misrep for a scum player to make though.

Why is that?

Dannflor · Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:28 am

Liger, why are you voting Rei

You know that’s not going anywhere

Dannflor · Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:32 am

“No NKs means the townblock must be wrong” is an inherently flawed argument and painting every consensus town read as a possible deepwolf does nothing to help town unless you also have supplemental reasons to believe a specific individual is a deepwolf. Aside from your mechanical theory on why lynching Rei is good, why do you suspect her over any other town read individual?

Your only scum read is apparently Max and apparently very strong, but you’d rather lynch elsewhere first to get more mislynches?

Dannflor · Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:38 pm

In post 4487, DrDolittle wrote:VOTE: Vedith

Why is Vedith scum?

Dannflor · Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:57 pm

In post 4493, DrDolittle wrote:
In post 4491, Dannflor wrote:
In post 4487, DrDolittle wrote:VOTE: Vedith
Why is Vedith scum?
i think there's high chance one of buj/vedith is scum, as buj was a small counterwagon to grapes. buj flipped green.

I went over this already but you can look at the VCs yourself. The Buj wagon existed prior to the grapes wagon.

Dannflor · Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:12 pm

In post 4501, DrDolittle wrote:scum pushes A, then town starts pushing the right person in B is perfectly reasonable

In post 1378, DrDolittle wrote:
In post 1347, Lycanfire wrote:
In post 1344, DrDolittle wrote:Grapes wagon is just eh.
Is your problem with it Grapes or the people voting Grapes?
Grapes. Like hes not obv town but there are much better lunches in the horizon. Plus the speed that the wagon developed smells a bit opportunistic, like people wanting off attn on Buj

Dannflor · Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:16 pm

I don't know if the Buj wagon just

existing

necessarily means scum were pushing it.

If you think Vedith is scum because he continued to push the Buj wagon after the Grapes wagon had momentum, remember that you did the same thing.

Dannflor · Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:27 pm

In post 4511, Ankamius wrote:has anybody gotten the sense that Dann has been awkward lately

me

Dannflor · Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:04 pm

In post 4532, Ankamius wrote:does mcqueen strike you as the kind of player to hardbus in that scenario or the type to hedge like that?

that's an important distinction for whether that particular point is scum-indicative or null

I think my answer should be obvious if I think those posts point to scum!mcqueen.

I haven't done a meta dive on mcqueen or have any other experience with him, but I don't really think he's been active enough to be able to or be able to benefit from hard bussing. He would've been hopping on the wagon pretty late.

In post 1432, northsidegal wrote:
Votecount 1.FINAL

grapes(9)
~ Reiuji Utsuho⁽⁷³⁾, Extrapolated Eagle⁽²³³⁾, Prince of Renais⁽¹³⁵⁾, Jingle⁽¹⁶⁵⁾, Alisae⁽¹⁴⁵⁾, Shoshin⁽¹⁶⁵⁾, NerfedBuJ⁽⁴³⁾, Clemency⁽¹³⁾, Lycanfire⁽²⁵⁾
-- HAMMER

NerfedBuJ(2)
~ Vedith⁽⁹⁰⁾, DrDolittle⁽⁴⁷⁾

Reiuji Utsuho(1)
~ mcqueen⁽²²⁾

Prince of Renais(1)
~ Xtoxm⁽²¹⁾

Extrapolated Eagle(1)
~ grapes⁽²¹⁾

Not Voting (3): Gamma Emerald⁽¹⁸⁾, Dannflor⁽¹⁵⁵⁾, Karmeleon⁽³³⁾

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2019-03-19 22:19:59)

Additionally, I'm not scum reading anyone still alive who was on the grapes wagon. The most likely slot is Clemency/Max, but I don't really think that's scum. Assuming that isn't horribly wrong, scum had to have been hedging or otherwise avoiding the wagon.

Dannflor · Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:42 pm

In post 4553, Ankamius wrote:
In post 4543, Extrapolated Eagle wrote:dann always reads awkward
your read on him is like your read on urap in bop 2, i think
iirc he didn't read this way in merchant's daughter though

and a lot of his play recently feels a lot more... on purpose than I remember him feeling there?

You said I was "wooden posting" in MD and generally pushed me for being awkward there (as did PvT).

If by recent play you mean by this day phase, I'm am trying to do/be more of this:

In post 4557, Extrapolated Eagle wrote:dann assert your reads and be an asshole about it

Dannflor · Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:51 pm

In post 4561, Liger_Zero wrote:dannflor is town and should be leader of the new town block formed of him and jingle.

I actually laughed

Dannflor · Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:54 pm

In post 4565, Ankamius wrote::V

I think I was mainly pushing that because I was deepwolf hunting though

It was fairly early on. The wooden posting comment specifically was within the first few pages of you entering the game at least and before any sort of consensus town block had been formed.

Dannflor · Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:57 pm

In post 4567, Liger_Zero wrote:dann, be the leader you were always meant to be.

okay by my leadership I say we sheep Prince today

Dannflor · Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:00 pm

In post 4572, Ankamius wrote:
In post 4566, Dannflor wrote:
In post 4565, Ankamius wrote::V

I think I was mainly pushing that because I was deepwolf hunting though
It was fairly early on. The wooden posting comment specifically was within the first few pages of you entering the game at least and before any sort of consensus town block had been formed.
oh so when I was tilted at the mechanics talk then

Yea, that was it. So maybe different from the type of awkward posting you're talking about

Dannflor · Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:04 pm

In post 4576, Ankamius wrote:
In post 4574, Dannflor wrote:
In post 4572, Ankamius wrote:
In post 4566, Dannflor wrote:
In post 4565, Ankamius wrote::V

I think I was mainly pushing that because I was deepwolf hunting though
It was fairly early on. The wooden posting comment specifically was within the first few pages of you entering the game at least and before any sort of consensus town block had been formed.
oh so when I was tilted at the mechanics talk then
Yea, that was it. So maybe different from the type of awkward posting you're talking about
maybe?

I'd have to reread your early posting in that game then to have an opinion one way or the other

I've just been getting a sense that your play is very deliberate today and through a chunk of yesterday

Today, that's what I've been going for specifically. Yesterday, not sure.

I think overall my play has been pretty similar to MD over the whole game here but I'm not the best judge of that nor the one to argue that.

Dannflor · Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:06 pm

In post 4588, Liger_Zero wrote:dann are we no longer sheeping prince, what is going on my excellence?

I'm already voting mcqueen!

Dannflor · Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:09 pm

In post 4589, Prince of Renais wrote:I hard TR him as town and hard SR him as scum.

so, yeah.

True.

I'm might just not be playing well enough this game then.

Dannflor · Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:16 pm

I know. If I'm usually able to obv town or at least get strongly town read by you though I feel like I can probably take that to mean I haven't done as good of a job this game playing the way I normally do and obv towning

Dannflor · Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:16 pm

also lowkey wanna keep Liger around solely for the meme posting

even though I literally know if scum he's blatantly pocketing me

Dannflor · Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:17 pm

then again everything he's doing is blatant

Dannflor · Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:21 pm

Can't we only lynch 4? I thought Day 7 was lylo

Or is that assuming we hit scum

Dannflor · Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:22 pm

why do i become a meme every game

Dannflor · Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:32 pm

In post 4613, Ankamius wrote:not impossible that the scumteam is giving up and accepting their fate but I'd expect scum to at least try to fight back at least

unless they're waiting for later days to do it?

they'd probably wait till after ignition in that scenario, would probably have the best chance

Dannflor · Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:35 pm

Dannflor · Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:36 pm

In post 4612, Liger_Zero wrote:Who wants to read my story about the king and his advisors discussing the war?

I have a 5 part series planned out right now. Should be an entertaining read.

I'll subscribe since I'm a character

Dannflor · Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:19 pm

UNVOTE:

Dannflor · Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:24 pm

smooth

Dannflor · Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:28 pm

VOTE: NSG

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:04 am

VOTE: mcqueen

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:48 am

In post 4730, Vedith wrote:It's purely gut.

Max, I would like Dann but I don't think that's an option.

I'm in the PoE so I'm going eventually if we don't somehow get the scum team first

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:49 am

In post 4731, Liger_Zero wrote:You know what is funny though, I am directly sucking up to the townblock (prince specifically), hoping someone would call me out on it, and nobody did.

I mean I did

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:51 am

@Prince

, I would probably withdraw Vedith from the PoE over Max if that's worth anything

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:52 am

In post 4738, MaxwellPuckett wrote:like in what world does a scumteam decide to have one half bus and the other half townread them for it

This seems wrong

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:52 am

In post 4742, Vedith wrote:
In post 4739, Dannflor wrote:
@Prince
, I would probably withdraw Vedith from the PoE over Max if that's worth anything
Flattery works.

\o/

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:53 am

In post 4745, MaxwellPuckett wrote:
In post 4741, Dannflor wrote:
In post 4738, MaxwellPuckett wrote:like in what world does a scumteam decide to have one half bus and the other half townread them for it
This seems wrong
How so
Thats my impression of what xtoxm and mcqueen would be doing if theyre scum together

I mean yes

I'm not sure where you're pulling the "that would be outlandish and weird for scum to do" thing from

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:58 am

Maxwell, you've stated you're uncomfortable with the lynch pool. Who else do you think is scum?

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:06 am

I don't know that mcqueen is actually scum reading me and Liger

He called us S/S and then voted xtoxm so ??

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:16 am

In post 4768, Liger_Zero wrote:
In post 4763, Liger_Zero wrote:McQueen has basically called like 6 people scum in probably the last day. He freaks out at one person calls them scum. Then rinse and repeat. I can't keep track of them all.
This post is false when I reread his ISO. He did it twice. Once to eagle than at xtoxm. I am not sure what is going on with him at all, but the behavior is strange.

He also pushed RAS yesterday before the Buj lynch.

And then just called us S/S, or at least implied he thought so.

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:34 pm

tfw when you thought RadiantCowbells WAS Prince

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:46 pm

I miss EE, Prince, and Karmeleon

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:43 pm

In post 2909, mcqueen wrote:holy shit i just realized how many people got replaced. Why did Shoshin, Lycan, and Gamma all get replaced?

I want to say mcqueen/Ank and mcqueen/Max can't be S/S

He's coming back after a hiatus yes, but odds are he at least checks in with his buddy before posting ?

maybe that's a bad assumption

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:46 pm

In post 1047, mcqueen wrote:Hey Xtoxm what are your thoughts on the current gamestate?

Do you have any (updated) reads?

In post 1065, mcqueen wrote:Not ready to default to that yet^

Not sure when the deadline is but as long as we have a few days id like to (hopefully) see DT’s replacement and wait for Xtoxm and Gamma to add more before deciding on a lynch

In post 1388, mcqueen wrote:can u also explain the Xtoxm townread?

In post 2645, mcqueen wrote:So Xtoxm’s still done next to nothing

So mcqueen's suspicion/pushing of xtoxm started early D2, and is pretty natural

I don't think mcqueen starts prepping his bus here this early?

If they just wanted good looking interactions, why doesn't xtoxm ever respond here

xtoxm doesn't respond until mcqueen finally votes him D3, which isn't as out of the blue as I thought

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:51 pm

In post 2865, mcqueen wrote:
In post 2763, Dannflor wrote:
In post 2761, mcqueen wrote:thats funny cause i havent done a catch up
referring to your pop in and updated reads

is xtoxm your top scum read?
I was waiting for Booneytoonz extravaganza to finish before I truly call out xtoxm.

He’s scum here like he was in that game.

VOTE: xtoxm

Karmeleon what do you think?

This isn't so random anymore now that I look back

It really does look like mcqueen was waiting for this since D2

If the scum plan was to bus/distance after the grapes wagon, mcqueen didn't have to wait for that game to finish to actually push, he could've made up any number of reasons

So mcqueen/xtoxm not S/S could be T/S

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:11 pm

In post 1535, DrDolittle wrote:Ok. yeah I should do some work for this game
Vedith(90) mcqueen(22) Xtoxm(21) Gamma Emerald(18), Dannflor(155), Karmeleon(33)
these are the 6 people that I should be considering

In post 1537, DrDolittle wrote:Leaving Vedith, mcqueen, and Xtoxm. I rank them Vedith > Xtoxm > mcqueen in that order, but I do need to figure things out more. Ok sorry that's all the time I can put in today

In post 2664, mcqueen wrote:Im not feeling DDL scum from his last few posts. Where do u stand on him Eagle?

In post 2680, mcqueen wrote:
In post 2666, Jingle wrote:
In post 2664, mcqueen wrote:Im not feeling DDL scum from his last few posts. Where do u stand on him Eagle?
Why?
Just doesnt seem very scummy. Im not getting hard town vibes, but i dont think hed repeat “im town” over and overas he has been if he werescum tbh. Just seemslike a cop out when i expect more from him.

DDL/mcqueen can be S/S

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:12 pm

In post 1346, mcqueen wrote:So there’s scum in {PR, Alisae, and Rei} ? Scum team found already ?

T/S/T?

this is

such a weird list of players

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:17 pm

In post 5, DrDolittle wrote:No one is here. Guess VOTE: mcqueen

In post 190, northsidegal wrote:
Votecount 1.1

Extrapolated Eagle(4)
~ Frozen Angel(19), Alisae(11), DoubtingThomas(41), Shoshin(5)

Alisae(2)
~ NerfedBuJ(4), Reiuji Utsuho(3)

Vedith(1)
~ Extrapolated Eagle(33)

Shoshin(1)
~ Lycanfire(8)

mcqueen(1)
~ DrDolittle(8)

Lycanfire(1)
~ mcqueen(1)

Gamma Emerald(1)
~ PvtUrist(9)

Not Voting (6): Gamma Emerald(15), Clemency(6), Vedith(23), grapes(0), Xtoxm(1), Karmeleon(0)

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2019-03-19 22:19:59)

In post 192, DrDolittle wrote:VOTE: xtoxm

In post 383, DrDolittle wrote:
In post 314, Xtoxm wrote:ddl i assume you thought something in my rqs post was scum indicitive
id be midly interested in hearing about that whenever you turn up
oh i have to respond to this.

i found it kind of weird that you entered with just a response on the rqs, rather than commenting anything about the game state.

reads to me like you caught up, but you didn't want to comment anything to standout (cause it is a 14-3 game after all) , so responding to rqs like everyone else is a good way to fit in.

I think this isn't S/S either.

DDL doesn't move his RVS vote to his scum buddy when he's feeling no pressure or has no reason to. There was a fairly big wagon on EE going that he could've joined. Even if he felt uncomfortable about joining such a quickly growing wagon, there was also the Alisae wagon to join. Instead he opts to start a new one, on his buddy? I don't think so

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:17 pm

In post 5015, Dannflor wrote:I think this isn't S/S either.

I don't think this is S/S*

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:20 pm

In post 5001, Enter wrote:
In post 4978, RadiantCowbells wrote:I am lynching in {RAS, Xtoxm, DDL}
I don't think RAS/DDL is S/S

Show me?

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:22 pm

In post 4922, DrDolittle wrote:vedith | RAS | jingle possible but less so

T/S/T hmm

that's twice the alisae slot has popped up in the middle

I mean probably means nothing significant but interesting

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:25 pm

I don't think that clears them Enter

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:30 pm

I don't think that type of shift from RAS is impossible if they were S/S, especially saying he came into the day ready to lynch either of the Ds

They may have reconsidered and realized I wasn't going to be an easy lynch or that RAS might even look suspicious sitting on me. DDL was also starting to get turned on by Jingle/Prince/others at that time. To quote NSG, "A scumteam caught early on will push each other down to stay afloat."

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:32 pm

I think

mcqueen red flip clears xtoxm and tentatively max

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:35 pm

mcqueen/ddl can be scum together

ddl/RAS can be scum together

RAS/mcqueen might be possible but maybe least likely? I don't know how much their random spat late Day 3 makes sense from a S/S perspective

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:36 pm

Spoiler:

In post 4017, mcqueen wrote:
In post 3986, RAS wrote:
In post 3972, Ankamius wrote:RAS do you believe that Liger's predecessor is more readable than Liger is?

I ask because my initial impression is the opposite
My vote is there for a reason, but I think you're right more often than not. I just think in this scenario, and from having ISO'd both of them, I genuinely feel like his predecessor has given more than he has in terms of reads on that slot. I could simply just having a hard time reading L0 here, but I'm finding it very hard to ignore Gamma's opener into this game. It's something that's there, and it's the type of openers that I dislike a lot.

I should also add, if it wasn't obvious enough already, but I don't really have much confidence in this game which is really weird from me because I don't usually flip-flop my reads so much, but I think it's something I will be able to improve on with a flip.
VOTE: ras

Stop pushing this bullshit narrative

In post 4019, mcqueen wrote:
In post 3987, Liger_Zero wrote:RAS vote Max.
Vote ras

In post 4034, mcqueen wrote:
In post 4026, RAS wrote:
In post 4010, mcqueen wrote:
In post 3967, RAS wrote:
Liger_Zero wrote:Okay, and you don't want to question me because....
I could, but like I said, my vote is on you purely because of Gamma's posts. There's not much I could ask you that would help me change my mind, unless you can explain why all of Gamma's post are practically empty. I really dislike how you jumped to conclusion when I specifically said my vote on you was purely because of Gamma's posts, but whatever.
this is a terrible post and should be pointed out as such. you’re giving Liger almost no chance.
It's really unfortunate how I'm giving him no chance. I'm being so stubborn on my vote on him, and I think I will never unvote him.

VOTE: BuJ
This is making it worse on yourself

In post 4040, mcqueen wrote:
In post 4036, RAS wrote:
In post 4034, mcqueen wrote:
In post 4026, RAS wrote:
In post 4010, mcqueen wrote:
In post 3967, RAS wrote:
Liger_Zero wrote:Okay, and you don't want to question me because....
I could, but like I said, my vote is on you purely because of Gamma's posts. There's not much I could ask you that would help me change my mind, unless you can explain why all of Gamma's post are practically empty. I really dislike how you jumped to conclusion when I specifically said my vote on you was purely because of Gamma's posts, but whatever.
this is a terrible post and should be pointed out as such. you’re giving Liger almost no chance.
It's really unfortunate how I'm giving him no chance. I'm being so stubborn on my vote on him, and I think I will never unvote him.

VOTE: BuJ
This is making it worse on yourself
IDGAF, my goal isn't to look good. If you think me playing like shit makes me scum, then I really don't care. I've no confidence this game, and I don't need someone to remind me how terrible my posts have been when I've been admitting to it since I've joined this game.
So u switching ur vote with a bunch of AtE is supposed to be you recognizing your
Poor play

Lol ok

Like this doesn't immediately strike me as S/S and is a very random time for a bus

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:37 pm

So I'm not sure mcqueen can be scum with RAS actually

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:38 pm

I have absolutely no clue about liger right now

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:39 pm

In post 5059, Xtoxm wrote:
In post 4688, mcqueen wrote:
In post 4631, Extrapolated Eagle wrote:My record isn't too shabby, tbh, especially in the last couple games, and the fact that my PoE is looking prety fucking similar to PoR's should help put things into perspective
Prepare to have ur record stopped
i hard gutread posts like this as town
i also tr how he was challenging the town block
or maybe i just really want the only other person challenging it to be town

That's been Liger's whole schtick since the day started tho

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:40 pm

Enter please break up your posts into smaller paragraphs thank you

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:41 pm

Liger read on DDL right now

gut is fine

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:42 pm

In post 5068, Dannflor wrote:Liger read on DDL right now

gut is fine

I went through your ISO and couldn't find a single mention or interaction with him

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:42 pm

In post 5069, Dannflor wrote:
In post 5068, Dannflor wrote:Liger read on DDL right now

gut is fine
I went through your ISO and couldn't find a single mention or interaction with him

NVM I missed a page

please hold

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:45 pm

In post 5074, Enter wrote:Sorry.

don't apologize!

It just makes it easier to read

and it reminds me of the for the homies copy pasta every time I see a paragraph that big

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:47 pm

So I can see liger as scum with DDL or mcqueen I think

DDL moreso with mcqueen I think

or he might not be scum which I think I'm leaning towards buuuuut paranoid

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:48 pm

In post 5085, Liger_Zero wrote:Damn. Do I need to hard pocket you more? When you gonna just trust me Dann. How much butt kissing do I got to do before you just accept me as your brother in arms.

It makes me trust you less my dude

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:49 pm

I feel like mcqueen is a better first lynch still?

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:49 pm

I think mcqueen gives more information and is a bit more likely to flip scum

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:50 pm

In post 5090, Liger_Zero wrote:You are so scum then. The scummiest person in this game, the most scum person in scummersville. But I will save you for last because I want to burn your scum empire to the ground mr scum.

This guy is scum yall

oh liger is town

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:51 pm

In post 5093, DrDolittle wrote:
In post 5088, Liger_Zero wrote:DDL, are you just disinterested in game? What is going through your brain?
if we are going through a lynch order solve, my lynch definitely gives the most information so

what information does your lynch give?

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:52 pm

In post 5097, RadiantCowbells wrote:So uh in the past I've moreso been going through the people that Grapes had a ridiculous amount of associatives with than the ones that he didn't but
very notable is that there's no mentions of DDL whatsoever in his iso and the sole interaction with Mcqueen was

In post 1362, grapes wrote:
In post 1356, mcqueen wrote:Lemme throw it out there that while Eagles play is bad i think its bad town and anyone voting him is looking scummy rn. Yes you grapes
Would you like to have a conversation about how this makes any sense at all?
which is notably also the first time that Mcqueen references grapes
which feels, on
both
parts, horribly scum-scum and I'm kind of shocked we've lynched two non-mcqueen people without lynching mcqueen

Oh fuck yea that post really pinged me when I was going through mcqueen's ISO but I got caught up with his xtoxm stuff

Does mcqueen or DDL first make more sense?

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:53 pm

yea I think mcqueen has higher scum equity

Dannflor · Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:55 pm

In post 5109, RadiantCowbells wrote:no like how did we not lynch mcqueen yet that's kind of shameful actually

he was gone for all of D2

and then D3 uh... I don't want to talk about it