Fire on the Mountain [Over]

[Shoshin]

i think i was the only player the genuinely sr you in sc1? you lost that game cus you were dealt a bad role
if you were any of the other 4 scum that won, you won that game
it wasnt the best setup

I had multiple opportunities to win that game that I thought about during the game but failed to do.

1. Convincing Nancy to roleblock the worst on that fateful night when I was going to NUKE everyone. I kept thinking about asking her to do this, and the moment I was about to, the day ended. The result: I was blocked by the worst, preventing my NUKE and win.

2. Lynching Mitillos over Performer/Key. I could have made either of those three lynches happen. Lynching Performer/Key would have won me the game. Lynching Mitillos lost me the game. The key point I missed was that Mitillos couldn't be group scum for a number of reasons that I should have been paying attention to.

I take full responsibility for that loss. My ability to be townread brilliant, and I still believe that if I were scum, everyone in this game would be townreading me. But I don't think my scum play it self can be called good until I start winning games.

[Shoshin]

Xtox, can you talk to us about this game? Why'd you vote PR?

[Shoshin]

I considered making the specific moves I needed to make to win, so it feels like that loss was on me. I don't deny that I'm very good at being townread as scum, but I pushed the wrong lynches and that matters a lot to being good scum. I'm still learning.

[Shoshin]

Oh yeah, that was when I sucked at everything about scum.

[Shoshin]

So are we going to talk about why you're lying about me, PR?

[Shoshin]

How sure are we about town Buj?

[Shoshin]

Grapes wagon is just eh.

Is your problem with it Grapes or the people voting Grapes?

I already feel like people treat me that way so nothing new.

[Shoshin]

Oh, that quote shouldn't be there. I was looking at Lycan's stuff. Ignore.

[Shoshin]

If this looks like my scum game, it's because I'm good at copying my town game as scum.

[Shoshin]

I hate mafia right now. It feels like no matter what I do, I can't win.

I'm the most townread player as scum in Starcraft & lose because of a random third party who won by suiciding.

I play to my town game perfectly as scum & lose because I guess I suck at mafia.

And now I'm lynched in my town games because I happened to copy my town game so perfectly as scum that now I'm lynched as town for playing towny.

And unlike RC, I'm not even winning my scum games.

What's even the point?

[Shoshin]

Not to mention how badly my town games have gone recently.

I have a winning game in geriatric get lost because I don't even know what happened.

And then I lose a town game where I didn't even get a chance to post once because a bunch of townies decided to quickhammer without letting me say anything.

This account is cursed.

VOTE: Shoshin

I'm moving on from this game and probably gonna stick to playing on my alts where I'm actually winning games.

[Shoshin]

It doesn't help, no. You think I'm a newbie who deserves to die as town because their scum game happens to look like their town game? What kind of logic is that?

[Shoshin]

It's like you've all forgotten how meta even works.

When someone looks similar to a recently completed scum game, it doesn't mean they're scum. It's just as plausible that they're really good at copying their town game as scum.

[Shoshin]

I guess because I always lose as scum it's just automatically assumed that I'm not capable of copying my town game.

[Shoshin]

It's three scum losses now.

Why shouldn't I self vote? I'm obviously getting lynched with the current state of thought in this game, there's no point delaying this.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Prince

[Shoshin]

I don't make cases, Dann. Remember Suka? That was me.

[Shoshin]

I don't have any energy for this game because it doesn't matter what I say or do, everyone's always just going to sheep PR.

[Shoshin]

Lycan's scum because his push on me earlier in the game was shit, his interactions around Grapes were awkward & unnatural (that random hesitant question to DDL, followed by calling Grapes "gross," just doesn't feel right), and then his fake hammer. Maybe he's town because everyone seems to townread him but I don't see it.

If Lycan's town, Clem's scum. Don't think that needs explanation.

DDL's town because he's reading the game closely. The way that he went to check your reasoning, Dann, on Buj -- that doesn't come from scum very often. It showed he was looking into what you were saying on a deeper level. There's other things but that alone should convince you.

Vedith's town because he's defending me, period. There's no reason for scum to defend me here. And maybe Vedith isn't town, I don't know, but I'm not lynching him today because at least he's doing the pro-town thing of trying to keep me alive.

[Shoshin]

Do you want to Hydra with me for the next BoP?

If you're town this game, no. Lynching me here is a travesty.

[Shoshin]

Enter's obvtown. The fact he waited to see my flip in BoP says it all.

[Shoshin]

I'd like to believe you don't lynch me when I'm town.

[Shoshin]

Of course, we can't always believe what we like when reality confronts us with the opposite.

[Shoshin]

Okay, I looked through some of Grapes games. I understand the wagon now.

VOTE: Grapes

Shoshin, can you tell me why you needed to look through some of Grapes games to understand the wagon? Did you really believe his meta was a major factor behind the wagon?

Sorry for interrogating you right now especially if you're energy levels are low, but I need this and if you're town I really need this

I've never played with Grapes before and I thought the wagon was mostly because Grapes was playing like lynchbait. Grapes kept pushing for an answer to his dumb question, and I kept telling him it was already answered, and he kept pushing. From my perspective, that continued push felt more town than Lycan/Clem, so I suggested lynching among those two over Grapes.

Then Grapes wagon became more of a thing, so I figured I should check his games.

I read his games.

It turns out Grapes is obvscum when he's scum, because there's a truly remarkable difference in his town games and scum games. It's like night & day. Whoever said Grapes is obvtown wasn't kidding.

And so I voted Grapes.

That's all there is to this. It was me going from viewing Grapes as lynchbait based on no meta knowledge to seeing Grapes as obvscum after reading his games.

The wagon itself was whatever from the start, just another typical RC-led wagon that might lead to a lynch, might not.

[Shoshin]

If Lycan's town, Clem's scum. Don't think that needs explanation.

Is this because you believe one of the last votes on the Grapes wagon has to be scum? I'm dumb and might need an explanation

Yes, it's fairly obvious that scum knew Grapes was going down after I voted him. This isn't rocket science. Scum know that influential townies are voting Grapes together, and then they see town me go from lightly defending Grapes to voting him on meta. There's no coming back from that from a scum perspective. That's the point at which they bus.

At least one of Lycan/Clem is scum.

And they're scum via behavior anyway, given Clem's lurking and Lycan's shit play.

[Shoshin]

Why would you ever lynch me just because it's easy, Jingle? What the fuck?

I'm the person you leave alive because if I'm town I'm very likely going to vote scum before LYLO.

Every game you've been in with me, what has happened? People call me scum, and then I vote the scum before my time of lynching, and then scum lose. Why would you get rid of me before I even have a chance?

[Shoshin]

Maybe Vedith's scum, I don't know, Dann. I'm telling you that from my perspective I'm not going to start biting the hand that feeds me until I flip my strongest scumreads.

[Shoshin]

If Lycan's town, Clem's scum. Don't think that needs explanation.

Can't remember much of either, tbh, but in a vacuum I lynch clem first.

You don't remember them because they're playing the way scum tend to play, by contributing nothing at all to the town's ability to win.

and you can say I haven't done anything, as you already did at some point, but that'd just untrue. I've been a focus of attention since the start of the game, and you definitely remember what I've said/done this game.

[Shoshin]

But I'm still voting her. I'm voting her because I think that even if she's town, clarification on the original interactions is valuable. Despite being unsure here, I think it is the right lynch. And I'm sorry that I think that, but I'm not going to back down from it.

VOTE: Jingle

PR, lynch this. Making the argument that it's worth lynching me even if I'm town isn't ever something that town Jingle says about me.

[Shoshin]

If this is worth it to Shoshin then I'll take the loss and never talk to her again.

VOTE: lycanfire

Is Lycan town or scum? Everyone in this game has made me feel like I'm crazy for thinking he's scum. Am I crazy?

[Shoshin]

Vedith is my new favorite player. I finally have a sheep of my own, PR!

[Shoshin]

My first impression of town Jingle is that he's the most tryhard player I've ever played with.

[Shoshin]

You sound like defeated scum, Jingle.

[Shoshin]

It's time for you to tryhard, Jingle.

I'm tryharding and I shouldn't be with how unfairly I've been treated. If you can't try hard, why the fuck even replace into this game?

[Shoshin]

You were unable to sustain your effort in 8-ball beyond D1, Jingle.

[Shoshin]

I don't either, Reiuji. Maybe we can bond over this shared experience?

[Shoshin]

How about voting Jingle, Dann? That'd be helpful. Scum Jingle is already cracking, just need to add a bit more votes.

[Shoshin]

Don't self vote.

Because I believe in you \o/

This is why I'm never lynching Vedith by the way. He gave me the tiny bit of support that I needed to get back in the game, and if he's scum, he did something very bad for his team.

[Shoshin]

Why do this to me, Reiuji? Are you scum?

[Shoshin]

Why would you want town me lynched, Jingle?

[Shoshin]

Reiuji doesn't strike me as lazy.

[Shoshin]

What's PITA?

[Shoshin]

I'm unclear about your reads, Jingle. Can you give a list?

[Shoshin]

I can't answer without you answering my question first, Reiuji.

[Shoshin]

Arbitrary Townreads for at least another day:
Reiuji Utsuho
Karmeleon
mcqueen

Actual Townreads:
Prince of Renais
Alisae
Extrapolated Eagle

Scumreads:
DrDolittle
Dannflor

Fuckit, who cares:
Shoshin
NerfedBuJ
Lycanfire
Clemency
Vedith
Xtoxm
Gamma Emerald

Top of each group stronger, roughly.

Still fairly accurate. I feel like I might be paranoia-ing about Dann, but he's definitely not townbin.

These should be changing quite dramatically after the last few pages. Please update.

[Shoshin]

Why is Dann scum, Jingle?

[Shoshin]

About your alignment, Reiuji? I don't know. I had you as locktown until you started encouraging my lynch even if I'm town. And then it got worse when you asked me this stupid question when I'm obviously unsure what to think about your recent posts. And then it got doubly worse when you tried shaming me into townreading you. So I'm very uncertain right now.

[Shoshin]

Okay, I was wrong about 8-ball. My memory isn't perfect.

[Shoshin]

And now I have to deal with shaming from Alisae too. Fuck off with this shit.

[Shoshin]

How do you reconcile scum Dann with pushing my lynch, Jingle?

[Shoshin]

I saved RC from the shame he'd feel if he's actually town who wants to mislynch me by the way. What I did was very good for him in the big picture. He just doesn't realize that yet.

[Shoshin]

I didn't AtE to get out of a lynch. I was self-voting in all seriousness. I changed my mind because of Vedith, that's it.

[Shoshin]

Information lynches are boring. You win games by lynching scum. And oh, you get more information that way too.

[Shoshin]

I'm not allowed to have emotions but everyone else is, Alisae? You're treating me so unfairly, from the start of this game.

[Shoshin]

I'm done with this game.

NSG, please replace me.

[Shoshin]

Information lynches are boring. You win games by lynching scum. And oh, you get more information that way too.

I betcha information lynch would be very fun to you if it wasn't you being the target.

And for the record, I have NEVER supported information lynches. I strongly argue against them in all my games.

[Shoshin]

I'm done with this game.

NSG, please replace me.

I’m sorry for what I said, but I kinda agree with this.
So I hope we can get along in a different time in a different place.

You can rot in hell for your total lack of empathy and completely unwarranted outburst at me.

[Shoshin]

Congrats scum, I enjoyed watching the townies that treated me unfairly get manipulated by both of you.

I'm also glad it's over so that I can finally talk about things from this game elsewhere.

[Shoshin]

on the subject of being "too simple", i think there's an audience here for relatively straightforward games like this. not every large theme has to be something insane that takes years of planning just to be run once and then never again.

I strongly prefer these types of straightforward games & am glad that you mod them! I hope you run more of them.

[Shoshin]

i think large nightless games in general seem to be grueling.

So, who wants to pre-in for 25 player Half Mast Nightless?

/in

[Shoshin]

xtoxm has consistently great reads across multiple games so he deserves credit.

[Shoshin]

xtoxm is consistently great, and yes, maybe his reasoning looks bad but his read accuracy speaks for itself.

[Shoshin]

I'd like to play more nightless games or games without roles, NSG. I don't care how many players.

[Shoshin]

I was very close to fully solving this game on D2, by the way. I think scum got a bit lucky with my replacement.

[Shoshin]

Me?

[Shoshin]

I think lynching me isn't as easy as it looks.

[Shoshin]

Lycan's scum because his push on me earlier in the game was shit, his interactions around Grapes were awkward & unnatural (that random hesitant question to DDL, followed by calling Grapes "gross," just doesn't feel right), and then his fake hammer.

These were pretty specific reasons to scumread you, Lycan. And this was on top of the poe I offered.

[Shoshin]

That wasn't the only thing I said. I also think I was voting RC when I made that post? So I dunno, I'm pretty sure the problem in this game wasn't my play.

[Shoshin]

You did great, Ank.