Perfect Masquerade [Game Over]

[Gentleman 4]

like it's not hard to have townreads in this game. a lot of slots have been towny. you're sitting around shading all the people that i'm townreading who aren't so obvtown as to be literally impossible to go after.

except the one person who scumreads a bunch of really terrible people to scumread.

You're scumreading him because your reads don't align?

Dude. Wait until tomorrow, PLEASE.

Gentleman 6 I'm going to be very honest with you. I don't care less who you do and do not want dead right now. I don't care who you're scum reading. I don't care that you're paranoid. You're acting like a chicken that just lost its head. Your play right now is disruptive and anti-town. Your current moves have been directionless, backless, and vacuous. Sit down and wait until Pre-Dance is done to begin screaming like a child watching his first horror film again, please.

fuck off with this stupid oversimplification of my case on him. if that's all you got from my case, the issue is with you and not me.

What case? You can't back anything you're saying up in any form of solid statement at all. And even if you DID have a case on him, I wouldn't care about it. He has a partner. He will make it to the next phase and the only thing you can do about it is lynch him in the next phase.

[Gentleman 4]

I'm not engaging with anyone besides L4.

Thank you.

[Gentleman 4]

@Lady 2

these were for you from earlier:

Lady 2, I would like to see your analysis of the current matching as well as your reads list, if possible. The more numbers you can attach to things, the more jubilant I become.

In addition, how comfortable are you in your scum game? If you could have paired with any of the gentlemen prior to them making the matches they have now, who would you have chosen? If your answer is Gentleman 2, please also include your second choice.

[Gentleman 4]

He didn't call you scum, nor anything close to it.

[Gentleman 4]

No, it's not. Stop misrepresenting personal distaste for expressing certainties about another's alignment.

[Gentleman 4]

I'm reading. I'm trying to commit to at least one catchup a day.

Whatever disregard correct play dance with the hottest girl.

Lady 8, will you dance with me?

I accept.

That was fast. In fact thats the first thing L8 mentions: making sure shes going to the next round.

G6: You mentioned it after you made the proposal but Id like to ask you again - do you think your pairing is T-T?

This never got answered, it was actually interesting cause G6 seemed to waiver on if his pair on L8 was town recently

Spoiler: Yes it did.

I'm reading. I'm trying to commit to at least one catchup a day.

Whatever disregard correct play dance with the hottest girl.

Lady 8, will you dance with me?

I accept.

That was fast. In fact thats the first thing L8 mentions: making sure shes going to the next round.

G6: You mentioned it after you made the proposal but Id like to ask you again - do you think your pairing is T-T?

Add to that L8 - why did you accept that so fast?

Uh, because I was already pretty insistent that I wanted to pair with G6 since like the start of the game?

[Gentleman 4]

Evening all.

I have set aside all prior obligations for the night and my sole attention will be on this game. Anyone around?

Yes. How are you?

[Gentleman 4]

Im talking about the G6 part.

My bad, I apologize.

[Gentleman 4]

@Lady 2, I'm not going to quote your post here for the purpose of minimizing the amount of time people have to scroll down through items they've already seen, but I very much appreciate your response. If it makes you feel even slightly better, you were a close second place to Lady 3, and I'm honestly rather surprised you haven't been matched yet. How caught up on the game are you right now?

[Gentleman 4]

For the purpose of sanity, I hope Gentleman 1 becomes more active and asks Lady 2, and Gentleman 3 asks Lady 1, who in turn maintains her current activity trend.

[Gentleman 4]

G4 and G2: please be prepared for shit to hit the fan at the dance if L5 is alive or flips town. I hope yall can control the wagons cause we will probably be looking for a 1v1

Relax. Looking for wagons right now is rash - there are a lot of things that I think several players haven't said yet, and it would be remarkably hasty of you to try and get my sweetheart killed before I get a word in. I think trying to enter the dance phase at anything faster than a relaxed pace is foolish.

[Gentleman 4]

For the purpose of sanity

, I hope Gentleman 1 becomes more active and asks Lady 2, and Gentleman 3 asks Lady 1, who in turn maintains her current activity trend.

L6 should be asked first.

For the purpose of sanity. Reads have little part to play in the above, you'll notice that I've tried to keep those rather veiled for the time being (with varying degrees of success).

[Gentleman 4]

G4 and G2: please be prepared for shit to hit the fan at the dance if L5 is alive or flips town. I hope yall can control the wagons cause we will probably be looking for a 1v1

Relax. Looking for wagons right now is rash - there are a lot of things that I think several players haven't said yet, and it would be remarkably hasty of you to try and get my sweetheart killed before I get a word in. I think trying to enter the dance phase at anything faster than a relaxed pace is foolish.

.... I wasnt talking about L3?

Ah. I see, you were threatening to take my mental health, not my girl.

[Gentleman 4]

L5 is playing so bad it has to be town.

G6, G5, why the strong L6 town reads?

I liked the entrance from yesterday, it was wayyyy to agressive and stubborn to come from scum.

The fact she stopped after overreacting is good too.

Speaking from the place of someone who has intentionally manipulated emotions in order to gain town reads from this and based on the fact that Lady 6 seems very much in control of herself (and has revealed she feels comfortable in a mafia game and is at least somewhat experienced) this is hardly alignment indicative, in my opinion. None of her actions have been not reproducible from a scum perspective and the items you discuss here aren't even particularly game relevant.

I’m thinking this game is 2G/1L. I think if L6 isn’t scum, L8’s auto acceptance from nowhere is scum indicative. Would make sense too if 2G/1L.

Lady 8's response to this:

I'm reading. I'm trying to commit to at least one catchup a day.

Whatever disregard correct play dance with the hottest girl.

Lady 8, will you dance with me?

I accept.

That was fast. In fact thats the first thing L8 mentions: making sure shes going to the next round.

G6: You mentioned it after you made the proposal but Id like to ask you again - do you think your pairing is T-T?

Add to that L8 - why did you accept that so fast?

Uh, because I was already pretty insistent that I wanted to pair with G6 since like the start of the game?

[Gentleman 4]

Gentleman 2, I apologize. There's a lot going on right now. I very much appreciate the effort you're putting in. 1959 seems to cover just about everything mechanically speaking. What are your thoughts on the current single Ladies/Gentleman and perspective matches?

[Gentleman 4]

Except that I’m Town so now think of this from my perspective.
Your being a moron RN is what I’m getting at.
Also don’t refuse to answer my questions you better answer them.

@Someone
Can you make sure to re post my post with the questions to G6 if I end up dying from not having a partner.

Man.
I don't want to brute force a lynch on G4. I want to get L4 to do it for me because I don't want to go through all of that hassle.
Do you get that, do you get why I'm not like arguing with everyone's townreads on G5 in thread?

I imagine you mean Gentleman 5 here?

I don't think having 3 town reads and 3 scum reads is too few. I think a lot of people are around there. I think the number of reads he has doesn't matter until we begin discussing reads in excess, which conveniently will be when we have the ability to lynch, and when our reads become relevant.

[Gentleman 4]

Promise me not to leave and let us lunch you instead

Who is this to?

[Gentleman 4]

L6 still isn't scum.

You haven't pointed out why she's town.

[Gentleman 4]

L6 still isn't scum.

You haven't pointed out why she's town.

He did recently actually.

No, he didn't.

Eh honestly that I'd take G8 and leave dance post was towny.

G5 did.

I believe I already answered this at the time.
Their posting was never scummy. It was bad in certain ways, but it didn't feel scum motivated.

This

He pointed out why she isn't scum.

[Gentleman 4]

Lady 6 using moonlogic is something that would NEVER come from town them :thonk:

I haven't played with scum them, but I'll look at their games. I don't understand why it isn't possible or likely that it comes from both, from what I hear she's relatively capable.

[Gentleman 4]

That's a pretty underwhelming nitpick to make here G4

What? Why? Why is it nitpicky to assert that just because a player isn't necessarily playing like scum doesn't mean that they're particularly town? Especially since I believe you wanted to see her matched first. "Not scum" doesn't really get you to the top town read slot in the game, or at least it definitely shouldn't.

[Gentleman 4]

I think Lady 6's real account has already been made ridiculously obvious by now.

[Gentleman 4]

Alright, I'll relax on my hesitation as far as that slot is concerned. Though, I'd really rather keep the pretense up regarding other slots, if it's all the same to you.

[Gentleman 4]

Gentleman 2, I apologize. There's a lot going on right now. I very much appreciate the effort you're putting in. 1959 seems to cover just about everything mechanically speaking. What are your thoughts on the current single Ladies/Gentleman and perspective matches?

Thats the part that is going to be harder for me to just jump into, i kinda need someone to walk with me whispering in my ear who people are, their relationships to each other and motivations.

Like I have some observations about the gamestate but i dont have the human face behind the facts. does that make sense?

And what else is going on beyond trying to figure out what lady gets left behind and who the last 3 gents dance with?

Certain characters have decided to try and kill each other before we even have vote counts to go off of. I think several players are trying to approach this phase like a normal day 1 instead of holding the punches until the blows can hit the other player.

What you're saying makes sense and I apologize, but I'm not really in a place to help you without dropping everything I'm doing at the moment unless the thread slows down significantly. If you wait a few days I can probably help you more.

[Gentleman 4]

G5 you asked L5 to dance, did she decline or did you ask L4 before L5 answered you?

No lady has declined yet, I think Lady 5 did post before Lady 4 accepted, however.

[Gentleman 4]

He's going to have control either way, Lady 6. Lady 3's post is literally just a copy of the order several other Gentleman have proposed multiple times today, just emboldened and enlarged.

[Gentleman 4]

He's going to have control either way, Lady 6. Lady 3's post is literally just a copy of the order several other Gentleman have proposed multiple times today, just emboldened and enlarged.

I am beginning to think you are a town pig. You just can't resist rolling in mud. Jesus Christ.

What on earth does this even mean?

We don't need an order. We need proposals.

No one here is disagreeing with this. Count the ladies and then count the gentlemen. At least in the plan you quoted, Gentleman 8 has the least control, but he's going to have control regardless. If you're wondering why I accused you of having almost no awareness earlier, it's times like these.

[Gentleman 4]

Lady 6 stop calling people names and just play mafia.

[Gentleman 4]

Lady 6 stop calling people names and just play mafia.

I didn't call you a name anymore than you saying I lack awareness for stating the obvious. The last proposed gets to pick who lives and dies. That is the most control, not least.

Saying you aren't exemplifying objective qualities is an effort to get you to fix and repair those qualities (or acquire where lacking) - lack of awareness can be fixed by reading the thread more and trying to approach again. I haven't yet insulted you personally yet, nor said you are something, and everything I've said is pertaining to the game.

You calling me a pig and telling me to go die are just you lashing out at me - it serves no productive purpose and it's not relevant to the game. Stop. It's childish and petty.

[Gentleman 4]

Saying the things you do are bad should be triggers to get you to stop doing those things, not reasons for you to just start name calling.

P-Edit I wonder if FG even accepts that

It was not intended as a Moderator-processable custom auto-accept request. It is a declaration to the other players in this game of my intentions. Unlike some of the other Ladies, I will not be V/LA during the critical period and I can contribute to promoting our preferred order of invitations by the three remaining Gentlemen by

not

requesting an auto-accept from the Moderator at this time.

Excuse me? You think I want to be VLA during this time?

She meant no insult by it.

[Gentleman 4]

I'm gonna be honest I don't even really know what I'm doing that's bad, but I'm scared to ask so I'm just going to leave it be.

[Gentleman 4]

Most of it barely pertains to you or your choice anyways. I would skim and look specifically for items pertaining to the remaining ladies and make your choice, preferably sooner rather than later, since the other two gentlemen are presumably waiting on you.

[Gentleman 4]

That’s actually a smart play.
Get to know your partner so if they are scum you can have a pretty decent idea as to whom their buddies are.

Only works if they don't already know they're in the hot seat.

Well I wonder who ruined that by blowing their load before they got to the bedroom.

[Gentleman 4]

Gentleman 6 if you'd shut up and play the game instead of worrying about endless possibilities and grasping for control, you wouldn't be losing control so quickly that you'll soon forget you had any sway in the first place. Shut up and sit down.

[Gentleman 4]

You're effectively fighting against yourself at this point - you're acting so quickly and rashly you counter your own moves before you can make them.

[Gentleman 4]

You're effectively fighting against yourself at this point - you're acting so quickly and rashly you counter your own moves before you can make them.

How is my thoughts here bad in anyway?
Explain that to me.
Explain to me how my L1 and L6 Post is bad.

I wasn't talking to you.

[Gentleman 4]

Gentleman 6 if you'd shut up and play the game instead of worrying about endless possibilities and grasping for control, you wouldn't be losing control so quickly that you'll soon forget you had any sway in the first place. Shut up and sit down.

This was a bit excessive, I'll admit. I'm sorry, I got a bit pretentious, I'm just frustrated. I haven't given up on you, Gentleman 6, but you've been a bit chaotic and unsettling lately, and you bring stresses to the table before were really properly equipped to handle them. I'm not sure how many pages your quibble with Gentleman 5 went on (and I added to it as well, I'll admit), but it certainly put pages into the thread that don't need to be read. I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't give up on me, and I think that we have enough players playing a decent enough town game that we are set up to do well tomorrow as long as we don't screw it up. I'd rather be your teammate than your rival. Can we agree to relax until the next phase?

[Gentleman 4]

Lady 5 you made it evident recently you still aren't aware of relatively core events of this game in your discussion with Gentleman 6 on the topic of Fire bringer and guessing who's main is who's. Post game I'm more than willing to try to discuss with you your problems with your play, although I'll admit that I'm no paragon myself, but right now you don't appear to be a remarkable asset (although the only Lady that I particularly want to ensure is still in the game next phase of Lady 2, so you're not particularly lagging when compared to some of your competition).

[Gentleman 4]

I don't. 1 and 6 are either going to start posting or get replaced. 5's posting gives me a headache and I think they're above average scum equity.

I didn't look through your whole ISO but this is relatively close to it. You have also at least twice said she's a good remove.

PEdit: He's talking to you.

[Gentleman 4]

I think players should be careful discussing their town reads. I generally speaking don't care who goes.

[Gentleman 4]

I would feel so much more comfortable if players would stop talking about their top town reads.

[Gentleman 4]

If that's a peak, you're climbing a short mountain range. :p

[Gentleman 4]

I got to the end of 85 and I am done for the night

You should all post less

I'm feeling sad that I may not get to play much of this game if this conflict continues, it's the most fun game I've been in in quite a while

I agree, for the most part, but think we should all wait until the next phase before we worry about who lives and who doesn't.

[Gentleman 4]

@Mod

I'm not currently voting anyone.

[Gentleman 4]

I think players should significantly relax on the Gentleman 5 push right now. At least until I've caught up. No one is made nervous by the fact that Gentleman 8 went out of order to choose Lady 5?

[Gentleman 4]

Like you guys are saying G5s been discussed to death but afaik no one besides me scumreads him still. Everyone is sitting here talking about how L8 is scum and L7 is calling that more productive discussion. It's not really a question if what's protown it's whether you guys agree with what's being discussed, and since no one agrees that G5 is scum trying to call him scum is getting pooh-poohed whereas the L8 is scum circlejerk which is for really questionable reasons even if she is scum is a universal read (who are her buddies exactly? Why aren't they trying to buoy up her slot if she's paired with obvtown) and no one stops to ask themselves what that says about what scum are doing in the game. Whereas if I'm right and G5 is scum it makes complete sense scum are trying to support the L8 scum narrative and shut down discussion of G5 since it can be reasonably assumed that after I'm dead no one scumreads G5 and he has a clean walk to endgame. Doesn't help no one engaged with my actual case on G5 and everyone engaged with reductive strawmen of my actual case.

What I'm saying is that I feel like you guys are thinking very one dimensionally about things and not really trying to understand how I feel or why I feel that way.

Stop. I absolutely refuse to try to lynch Gentleman 5 (or any other player for that matter) regardless of my read on him if not given the opportunity to understand the rest of the game. You throwing a tantrum because people aren't willing to immediately lynch him (and rip town apart in the process) is only making things worse. Even if we lynch Gentleman 5 today and he flips scum, if we do it in the way you want to do it, we majorly screw ourselves over because the only thing we've discussed since you've been overcome by this obsession is Gentleman 5. It's so counter-productive to town and this is the reason why lynching scum day 1 regularly ends in town loss. Relax. I haven't said what I'm reading Gentleman 5 and neither have a lot of other players and probably for pretty darn good reason.

[Gentleman 4]

No one is made nervous by the fact that Gentleman 8 went out of order to choose Lady 5?

What do you make of the fact that he jumped to pick someone he could have waited to pick? Was l5 in danger of being picked by g1 or 3, i forget who was supposed to go first?

I think it more has to do with the fact that if he's scum, he doesn't necessarily want a S-S pair.

[Gentleman 4]

^ Reason why I dislike G4 saying I should go simply because I haven’t read “all” of the game.

It’s like he thinks everyone is reading the entire thing.
Sure some people might be but not everyone I don’t think.

I think every player has at least skimmed every page and is for the most part up to date on major events in the game, which I'm reminded time and time again that you are not.

[Gentleman 4]

It’s interesting because if I was scum G8 and I had L2 partner scum, I pick me.
If I was scum G8 and only townies left, I never pick L5. I pick either L1 or L2.

Why would he pick L5? Maybe to keep L5 alive so she further ruins the little semblance of cohesion this town has? Possibly.
Maybe it is because this guarantees a strong townie dies. It’s probably a little of both.

A strong townie dies AND L5 continues to muck things up. That makes sense.
Plus maybe he saw that I would instaleave if he paired with me.

My process almost exactly. It's why he had to jump the order to pick Lady 5. That said, I've really enjoyed Lady 2's contributions thus far, and I won't accuse her further unless we have solid evidence via a Gentleman 8 scum flip.

[Gentleman 4]

I also think L1 or L6 should be removed.
As I feel it’s a TVS.

Mhm I “felt”.
I’m not entirely sure.
Then if you would have bothered to look into my later posts instead of trying to find posts to shade me with you’d realize that I also said that L1 and L6 is never SvS.
As that was the conclusion I ended up with.

Right. Not SvS, but TvS. Lady 1 flipped town, shouldn't that make Lady 6 scum?

[Gentleman 4]

Ladies 2, 7, and 5 would you list the pairs in the game in order of most optimal to least optimal lynch, please?

@Lady 2, I do want to say that while I think Gentleman 8's scum flip would somewhat implicate you, I'm individually town reading you and I'd really prefer if that comment didn't prevent you from discussing things with me.

[Gentleman 4]

Gentleman 1, if and when you get here, I'd like to discuss the game with you.

[Gentleman 4]

My follow-up question is rather difficult to phrase, but I'll do my best:
How comfortable do you feel with the game state right now with respect to a Gentleman 5 Lady 4 lynch?

[Gentleman 4]

Lady 5, the following two posts contradict each other, which is pretty par the course for you. Actually I'm almost certain that if you picked any single stance of yours this game I could find another post of yours that contradicts it without much difficulty.

Please stop posting for a while, watch the game, get a hold of yourself and know where you're coming from before you keep posting.

Spoiler:

If G8 is scum and all of his options were town, his selection of L5 is still correct. All him picking L5 proves if he's scum is that his buddies wanted them to pick her so she could continue to do L5 things.

WRONG!
If he was scum his correct choice is Lady 2. They are a strong town and should take down a strong town with them.

No one is made nervous by the fact that Gentleman 8 went out of order to choose Lady 5?

What do you make of the fact that he jumped to pick someone he could have waited to pick? Was l5 in danger of being picked by g1 or 3, i forget who was supposed to go first?

I think it more has to do with the fact that if he's scum, he doesn't necessarily want a S-S pair.

Which I’ve pointed out BUT NO ONE SEEMS TO LISTEN TO ME!

[Gentleman 4]

My follow-up question is rather difficult to phrase, but I'll do my best:
How comfortable do you feel with the game state right now with respect to a Gentleman 5 Lady 4 lynch?

I was going to say basically fine? I think there's enough consensus that G8/L5 can't be allowed to stay in long term regardless, and talking G6 off the ledge is valuable

but

L5 continues to insist on nuking everything in her path??? Like L8 saying that L5 needs to go NOW might be correct regardless of G6's attitude towards not lynching G5 now?

Hm. Do you think the reads on Gentleman 8 and Lady 5 are based on play that indicates positively that their alignment is such that nothing they can do in the future will revoke current scum reads on them? In fewer words: do you think Gentleman 8 and Lady 5 have no capability or potential to ever be an asset, and/or their play indicates with certainty beyond reasonable doubt that one of the two will flip red?

You mentioned Gentleman 8 and Lady 5 as being your priority lynch, but context implies the former statement was a typo and you intended to write Gentleman 5 and Lady 4, is this correct?

Also, while my previous questions are still valid based on the thoughts you indicate here, I fear you misunderstand my question, and for clarification - do you feel comfortable with day ending right now as long as the lynch target flips scum, regardless of who the lynch target is?

[Gentleman 4]

For G8 I think it is within the realm of the possible that he could become an asset, potentially, and that he very sincerely and innocently just didn't engage with anything pre-dance but has the capacity and willingness to contribute significantly now that we've entered the main phases of the game. I cannot completely rule it out, though at this juncture it seems unlikely. L5 is a different matter. I would like to be more charitable than I am, but it's really really hard for me to see L5 as a future asset to Town. It is very very easy to see her as a continual asset for scum even if she's Town. I do think G8 is at least as likely - probably more - to

be

scum-aligned than L5.

Yes, G5/L4 is (or was, at least) the priority lynch in my eyes, sorry about the typo.

The last question is pretty odd, or maybe I'm just misunderstanding it still? No I don't want Day to end right now I guess? Have I been thinking about things wrong? If we're timely we get two lynches before intermission, correct? I was under the impression that we could lynch G5/L4 and go on to lynch e.g. G8/L5 before intermission phase?

I understand, I somehow managed to miss that part of the setup, my bad.

Would it be safe to say that you feel certain enough in your reads that you feel alright lynching Gentleman 5 and Lady 4 right now, then?

[Gentleman 4]

More of: do you feel comfortable (to the point of not really being interested in changing) in lynching Gentleman 5 and Lady 4 and Gentleman 8 and Lady 5.

[Gentleman 4]

I feel like you've answered that adequately at this point however. Do you have a preference of order?

[Gentleman 4]

How many times have you played scum before, Lady 7?

[Gentleman 4]

How many times have you played scum before, Lady 7?

Played over 209 games of mafia, more town than scum, but I can’t give you a number. I absolutely hate, detest, loathe drawing scum, but I usually do okay. Went on a two-year streak of winning every scum game I played across 6 sites sometime back though. Don’t know how I’d do today. Haven’t played mafia in over a year and haven’t drawn scum in two years. I still hate it. Drawing mafia is one of the worst forms of torture in mafia, and that’s misery usually shines through.

Probably more than you wanted to know, but.

Okay gotta go for realz.

That's actually... really interesting. How long have you been playing and across what sites?

I asked because I somewhat disagreed with you on your previous comment, but you obviously have the experience to be taken pretty seriously here so I'll weigh it appropriately.

[Gentleman 4]

Lady 4 - You're funny, but most of your recent posting hasn't really been thread related. I get the game has been particularly frustrating, but is there any way you'd feel better about it by talking about it?

[Gentleman 4]

How many times have you played scum before, Lady 7?

Played over 209 games of mafia, more town than scum, but I can’t give you a number. I absolutely hate, detest, loathe drawing scum, but I usually do okay. Went on a two-year streak of winning every scum game I played across 6 sites sometime back though. Don’t know how I’d do today. Haven’t played mafia in over a year and haven’t drawn scum in two years. I still hate it. Drawing mafia is one of the worst forms of torture in mafia, and that’s misery usually shines through.

Probably more than you wanted to know, but.

Okay gotta go for realz.

That's actually... really interesting. How long have you been playing and across what sites?

I asked because I somewhat disagreed with you on your previous comment, but you obviously have the experience to be taken pretty seriously here so I'll weigh it appropriately.

Still back at work but I thought I had a meeting. It’s next Monday oops.

Anyway I started playing in late 2011 army homesite rip then came here sometime later. Not gonna mention sites though cuz I might as well mainslip depending on who might be in the game.

Why do you disagree though? I have experience and some strengths but strategy is not one of them. I’ve never played or followed a dance game before, and my brain does not conceptualize how things will work or look just from the setup. I have to see how things are playing out/read peoples theories/express my own to see it.

So if you disagree let me know!

Alright, let's discuss it after the game, then!

I think as scum I'd rather let my partner stand on her own - if she can't really convince someone to partner with her, she's likely to be a liability, and the jump on Lady 5 seemed like an attempt to avoid association with Lady 2. That's just a narrative that seems to fit pretty well as far as I'm concerned, but you bring up some good points counter to that, so I'll definitely consider that at the very least.

[Gentleman 4]

Everyone really needs to shut up about G8 and L5.

Unless FG is coming in to confirm them both as town, THEY ARE GETTING LYNCHED AFTER ME/L4 or G6/L8 DIE.

Like we should not be having a discussion on either of them, they are a detriment as town, regardless of alignment.

This is one of the larger reasons I would rather they die first. I'm not particularly certain why players are so sure you should die first anyways.

[Gentleman 4]

u should look for them otherwise im going to think u two are in the same pt

....
.....
........

Holy shit, have you ever made a read on your partner? Im not going back to find out but all I remember is G4 telling everyone how much he likes you, but not the other way around.

...

I dont know what to make of this information. Im not finding quotes because you know im right.

Relax, I'm talking to her. Do you wish to discuss your read on Lady 3 more in depth now, and I can talk more about why I think she's likely town?

[Gentleman 4]

I think Lady 5 and Gentleman 8 are a solid first lynch, because this flip has a reasonable possibility of flipping red, and it helps me sort Lady 2 and Gentleman 3 at the very least.

[Gentleman 4]

This g8 scum = l2 scum narrative is bullshit and probably being spread by scun to get something out of their worthless g8 slot

Lady 1 was town and she was the first one to say anything about it.
I'm also saying it's at least a possibility.

Would you like to point to what posts make you think Lady 2 is specifically town?
Or even just talk about the players that are spreading this information that are likely scum?

[Gentleman 4]

This g8 scum = l2 scum narrative is bullshit and probably being spread by scun to get something out of their worthless g8 slot

Lady 1 was town and she was the first one to say anything about it.
I'm also saying it's at least a possibility.

Would you like to point to what posts make you think Lady 2 is specifically town?
Or even just talk about the players that are spreading this information that are likely scum?

Actually lady 6 used lady 1 being the scum who was skipped over as the reason why lady 1 should be left out. Lady 1 just then used the same theory to apply it to lady 2.

I could see Lady 6 being scum, Gentleman 3 is really bringing that pairing up in my rankings anyways.

[Gentleman 4]

This g8 scum = l2 scum narrative is bullshit and probably being spread by scun to get something out of their worthless g8 slot

Lady 1 was town and she was the first one to say anything about it.
I'm also saying it's at least a possibility.

Would you like to point to what posts make you think Lady 2 is specifically town?
Or even just talk about the players that are spreading this information that are likely scum?

Actually lady 6 used lady 1 being the scum who was skipped over as the reason why lady 1 should be left out. Lady 1 just then used the same theory to apply it to lady 2.

I could see Lady 6 being scum, Gentleman 3 is

not

really bringing that pairing up in my rankings anyways.

EBWOP

[Gentleman 4]

@Moderator

Does day end when a couple dies?

If not, I'm very much fine with getting rid of Gentleman 8 and Lady 5 immediately and then working through the second pair immediately after, as I don't see the status of that pair changing.

[Gentleman 4]

G8 et L5 delendi sunt?

Oui. Et rapidement

[Gentleman 4]

there's 3 scum; do you guys think that L5 G8 is going to flip double scum or something? are we gonna talk about anyone else?

Sure.

Gentleman 3 and Lady 6 are very near the bottom of the list of my favorite pairs.

[Gentleman 4]

Gentleman 1, feel free to re-ask any questions you feel haven't been adequately answered when you're done. I'm reading your posts, but I don't think I intend to answer anything unless I find it especially interesting.

[Gentleman 4]

I'm also leaning town on Gentleman 1.

[Gentleman 4]

I really don't expect either G8 or L5 to flip scum right now. I'm not sure I expect G5 to either at this point.

This is one of the many reasons why the outburst several days ago was senseless and ill-advised. Please try to work with him now, at least until you're pretty darn sure he's a solid lynch for today.

[Gentleman 4]

I think Gentleman 6 is doing his very best to throw the game. That's the only conclusion I can come to based on his actions. Nothing else makes sense.

[Gentleman 4]

I think Gentleman 6 is doing his very best to throw the game. That's the only conclusion I can come to based on his actions. Nothing else makes sense.

I mean it's quite possible he plays a ridiculously convincing scum game and is just out-witting everyone here, but I somewhat doubt it.

[Gentleman 4]

I think Gentleman 6 is doing his very best to throw the game. That's the only conclusion I can come to based on his actions. Nothing else makes sense.

Man

I'm trying to prevent a mislynch and I'm trying to find who the actual scum are

Good, then stop being a dick to people and let's play.

[Gentleman 4]

I think Gentleman 3 and Lady 6 is one of my favorite slots to lynch right now. I am in no way convinced that Gentleman 3 is town. In fact, I'm almost certain the push on him dropped because Gentleman 5 got pushed by Gentleman 6 and Gentleman 3 stopped showing up.

[Gentleman 4]

I still support a Lady 5 and Gentleman 8 lynch, because it will help me sort Lady 2 and Gentleman 3, it will remove a lot of the spam from the thread, I doubt they will make it much later anyways, neither of them will surprise me with a scum flip, and I think we can get enough agreement on it to get two lynches before intermission.

One point I specifically want to bring up about this pairing is this: a lot of people are having difficulty with too many town reads - Lady 4's reads list included not enough scum and Gentleman 6 recently expressed doubt in several of his scum reads, and this is often indicative of scum being in the lurker pile -> Gentleman 8.

[Gentleman 4]

I think I understand why this game has been swelling, there seems to be some severe issues of people having problems with others. I feel like my vote will end up being on the pair I find most problematic if this proves true.

This is why several players have decided to push Lady 5 and Gentleman 8 at the moment.

No we're not lynching L6.

This isn't the reason why I'm pushing this pair (although it's not a reason to not push it, in my opinion).

Ok actually G3 hasn't been doing shit lately so maybe...

That's at least part of the argument.

G3 L6 isn't scum m8s

Why not?

[Gentleman 4]

VOTE: Gentleman 8

I believe that's five votes, making this L-4. That's an estimation, though. Right now I have Lady 2, 3, and 8 voting for this pair as well as Gentlemen 4 and 5. I might be wrong on this count.

[Gentleman 4]

if this flips double town like i expect the peanut gallery is shutting up and letting me lead tomorrow.

1. We're almost certain this doesn't end day.
2. Absolutely not happening in a million years. I think you're town but I trust you with town this game the way I trust a three year old to handle investing for retirement.

[Gentleman 4]

Even if this flips double town it's still overall an improvement on the current situation for several reasons.

[Gentleman 4]

Even if this flips double town it's still overall an improvement on the current situation for several reasons.

What’s those reasons exactly?
Please think about this.

I still support a Lady 5 and Gentleman 8 lynch, because it will help me sort Lady 2 and Gentleman 3, it will remove a lot of the spam from the thread, I doubt they will make it much later anyways, neither of them will surprise me with a scum flip, and I think we can get enough agreement on it to get two lynches before intermission.

One point I specifically want to bring up about this pairing is this: a lot of people are having difficulty with too many town reads - Lady 4's reads list included not enough scum and Gentleman 6 recently expressed doubt in several of his scum reads, and this is often indicative of scum being in the lurker pile -> Gentleman 8.

[Gentleman 4]

It's 126 pages now and we've only talked about 3 pairs.

You are more than welcome to continue the conversation - I've brought up twice now that I'm interested in Gentleman 3 and Lady 6 and several people have brought up Lady 2 and Gentleman 1

[Gentleman 4]

What made you lean town on Gentleman 3? His posts felt very feigned and forced.

What do you not like about Gentleman 1?

[Gentleman 4]

Sorry Star Wolf has made some blatant scumposts over the last few pages and my reasons to townread them were never particularly good.
Like I can carry on my original game plan of policy lynching the people who are making this game awful or I can actually play to win.

No one in this game has really been presenting any decent scumhunting or analysis that I agree with at all since L9 stopped playing and L1 died.

It's 126 pages now and we've only talked about 3 pairs.

Basically this: there's this giant circlejerk about how somehow G8/L5 are likely to flip scum and 0 discussion of who else might actually be wolves.
Like I could always have been wrong about G5 but that doesn't change the fact that no one is actually trying to lynch scum right now.

Would you mind quoting any of Gentleman 1's blatant scum posts and talking about it?

Just because you ignore someone doesn't mean they aren't there. Significant portions of this are verifiably false, and the parts are true are mostly due to fault of your own.

[Gentleman 4]

I think that at the very worst case scenario I am not being lynched until I am the second last pair remaining. That's the end of the discussion, really.

No, it isn't.

Like if I'm going to actually try this game rather than just leave to avoid dealing with the crappy game.

If you not posting = you not trying, I'd prefer the latter, actually.

Even if L8 is scum, there's a lot of value to having a pair that is known to be at worst TvS.

No, there isn't. The whole point of informed minority vs uninformed majority is that 1 to 1 trades are good for the majority. Funny, chess applies to more than just chess.

[Gentleman 4]

The stuff that you don't like from me happened in reaction to the gamestate being what it was. The gamestate wasn't what it was because of me.

The game state is what it is because of you. And you not having control over yourself is still a problem that you should be handling, regardless of how much you try to blame the thread.

[Gentleman 4]

No, there isn't. The whole point of informed minority vs uninformed majority is that 1 to 1 trades are good for the majority. Funny, chess applies to more than just chess.

That's not how this game works.
fF you have a known TvT pair.
AKA, G3/L6

And you have two pairs with 1 known town in them, the game is over.

T-T
TvS(at worst)
TvS(at worst)

You can lynch every other pairing in any order and then kill the two pairings that are at worst TvS and then the game is over.

Exactly. As long as any pair with at least one scum in it is dead, town wins. Which means that if Lady 8 is scum, the game is better off if you're dead with her than she's alive with you.

[Gentleman 4]

Nothing in the quoted post even comes close to countering the argument presented.

[Gentleman 4]

G4 you literally pushed me to pair with L8 instead of a locktown player. Keeping me around to solve the game while being comfortable functioning as a TvS pair is the only reason to do that.
Like unless you deliberately pushed me to pair with a non-locktown player to push an early mislynch on me, this game is functioning exactly as intended.

I'm not pushing you. I still think both of you are >rand town. I'm just pointing out the flaws in your argument.

[Gentleman 4]

Gentleman 6, you read what I'm not writing, and that's bad because I'm being particular about what I'm writing for good reason.

There has got to be a softer way to put this.

You're obviously paranoid. You've obviously been through some rough games of mafia. I'm on your side. I'm supporting you. But I need you to be supporting me, too. This doesn't have to turn into you grasping at straws for days on end in desperate attempts to get control of the game - we can work together. But you have to relax. You have to forget the times people turned on you because you made it to end game and you were lock town for most of the game so nobody looked at you, people got paranoid, and lynched you. I won't do that to you. I just need you to stay calm and level-headed. And I need you to work with me. Ok?

[Gentleman 4]

I've said my piece. A lot of what you're saying doesn't really qualify as a response to me, Gentleman 6, because it's not even addressing issues I brought up.

[Gentleman 4]

Alright here's the couples I'm considering for today in no particular order:

Lady 5 and Gentleman 8:

Spoiler: I've already covered this, and I think it's a dead horse now, but here's my argument in case you missed it:

I still support a Lady 5 and Gentleman 8 lynch, because it will help me sort Lady 2 and Gentleman 3, it will remove a lot of the spam from the thread, I doubt they will make it much later anyways, neither of them will surprise me with a scum flip, and I think we can get enough agreement on it to get two lynches before intermission.

One point I specifically want to bring up about this pairing is this: a lot of people are having difficulty with too many town reads - Lady 4's reads list included not enough scum and Gentleman 6 recently expressed doubt in several of his scum reads, and this is often indicative of scum being in the lurker pile -> Gentleman 8.

Gentleman 5 and Lady 4: The case against Gentleman 5 is debatable. I've liked what he brought to the table in the past, but Gentleman 1 made a solid point about his Lady 2 "joke." I'm really not certain about this pair, I'd really rather have more time to sort through this, because I've been very much on the fence about both these player's alignments. I think based on Gentleman 5's "joke," flipping this pair might be indicative of Lady 2 scum.

Gentleman 3 and Lady 6: Lady 6 has said very convenient things at convenient times before, and several of her more interesting posts have been noted several times by other players. I will go through these when I get the chance, but I think she's slid significantly under the radar due to her absence. There have been a couple things she's done that have barely any game relevancy but can be indicative of her being town on her main account, though, so this is something to keep in consideration. I have never been a fan of Gentleman 3's posting, it all looks particularly fake and his activity has dropped conveniently after finding a partner - right around the same time everyone else was looking at Gentleman 5 and Lady 4.

Gentleman 1 and Lady 2: Not really a pairing I was considering at the beginning of the day, I like Gentleman 1 for the most part, but Lady 2's flip could help determine the alignment of several other players here and I've been less and less convinced by her posting recently.

[Gentleman 4]

Actually trying to conceal information from scum is almost universally a complete waste of time. It's not hard for scum to figure out which pairings are the actual late game TvT threats.

I can't lynch G3-L6 because you say that's your TvT pair.
I can't lynch L8/G6 because I'm throwing since its TvS pair.
I can't lynch G8/L5 because they are lynchbait.

There is at most 1 scum in all of these 6 slots.

Look for the other 2.

Let's see

G6/L8 is an endgame TvS at worst pairing
G2/L9 is an endgame TvS at worst pairing
G3/L6 is an endgame TvT pairing
G7/L7 is an endgame TvT pairing

What's left?

L4/G5
G1/L2
G4/L3
G8/L5

The lists don't match.

[Gentleman 4]

I'm not going to endgame

G6/L8 is an endgame TvS at worst pairing

They don't match

[Gentleman 4]

You're allowed to tell yourself what you want as much as you want.

However, you did just recently voice support for Gentleman 8 and Lady 5, so I highly recommend voting for them.

[Gentleman 4]

Although, I think I've heard little girls with better arguments for why they're getting a horse for christmas than yours.

[Gentleman 4]

Gentleman 6, would you be willing to provide verbal input on who you think is and is not scum, based on process?

[Gentleman 4]

I'm really not interested in your lists of what does and does not contain scum, they contradict each other. If you want to discuss my process, that's fine, I've provided a sample of it, or if you'd share some of your own that would also be productive.

[Gentleman 4]

Alright here's the couples I'm considering for today in no particular order:

Lady 5 and Gentleman 8:

Spoiler: I've already covered this, and I think it's a dead horse now, but here's my argument in case you missed it:

I still support a Lady 5 and Gentleman 8 lynch, because it will help me sort Lady 2 and Gentleman 3, it will remove a lot of the spam from the thread, I doubt they will make it much later anyways, neither of them will surprise me with a scum flip, and I think we can get enough agreement on it to get two lynches before intermission.

One point I specifically want to bring up about this pairing is this: a lot of people are having difficulty with too many town reads - Lady 4's reads list included not enough scum and Gentleman 6 recently expressed doubt in several of his scum reads, and this is often indicative of scum being in the lurker pile -> Gentleman 8.

Gentleman 5 and Lady 4: The case against Gentleman 5 is debatable. I've liked what he brought to the table in the past, but Gentleman 1 made a solid point about his Lady 2 "joke." I'm really not certain about this pair, I'd really rather have more time to sort through this, because I've been very much on the fence about both these player's alignments. I think based on Gentleman 5's "joke," flipping this pair might be indicative of Lady 2 scum.

Gentleman 3 and Lady 6: Lady 6 has said very convenient things at convenient times before, and several of her more interesting posts have been noted several times by other players. I will go through these when I get the chance, but I think she's slid significantly under the radar due to her absence. There have been a couple things she's done that have barely any game relevancy but can be indicative of her being town on her main account, though, so this is something to keep in consideration. I have never been a fan of Gentleman 3's posting, it all looks particularly fake and his activity has dropped conveniently after finding a partner - right around the same time everyone else was looking at Gentleman 5 and Lady 4.

Gentleman 1 and Lady 2: Not really a pairing I was considering at the beginning of the day, I like Gentleman 1 for the most part, but Lady 2's flip could help determine the alignment of several other players here and I've been less and less convinced by her posting recently.

This specifically is what interests me. Feedback on this.

[Gentleman 4]

From anyone, to be honest. I'm not really interested in considering any other lynches at the moment.

[Gentleman 4]

Can you talk quote specifically what posts Gentleman 1 made that made you uncomfortable? Or give me the page numbers at least? I want to be able to interpret for myself.

[Gentleman 4]

I won't support that lynch based on unflipped associative s either.

[Gentleman 4]

How's this as a compromise:

third and last lynch of the day is L5/G8 and shut up about them until then

dang i thought i could fool you guys

outwitted

What's left?

G8/L5

[Gentleman 4]

I see where you're coming from and I like the case, but I think there are a few things I'm not all that sure about:

1. His phrasing is definitely off a bit, but it could be because he's exclusively approached the thread from a position of being behind, and since we have yet to have an extended interaction with him in real time, that makes this part difficult
2. He isn't necessarily direct about alignment, but neither am I, and neither is a lot of other people in the game, especially when you're not sure how you feel about a player because they haven't fully participated.
3. If you're going to go after someone for hesitancy as far as proposing to a lady, Gentleman 3 is a much better target to go after.

In fact, in just about all these qualifying factors, I think I could make a better case for Gentleman 3. Gentleman 1 quite possibly could have had the last pick on a lady only because he simply wasn't here until he was the last person, Gentleman 3 fought it all the way up until the last possible second. Gentleman 3 hasn't been particularly direct about alignments, he's just kind of commented from the side. He's made several excuses that seem to regularly contradict each other, and after being here for days, he disappears after the attention is off of him until I bring up suspicion of him again, at which point he fails to address any concerns and disappears into the blue.

[Gentleman 4]

That might have been poorly worded, so I hope you can understand at least sort of what I'm getting at. I'm not saying I'm opposed to Gentleman 1 being lynched, he definitely moved higher on my list of suspects, but when you bring up the arguments you do the only person I can really think about is Gentleman 3.

[Gentleman 4]

I'll work up a Gentleman 3 case tomorrow

[Gentleman 4]

Theres no way in hell youre getting a G3 lynch today.

Did you not support it less than 72 hours ago? What changed?

[Gentleman 4]

I think I'm only reasonably guessable to you because I interacted with you in the same ways I have in the past. To most people I don't think I'm in that range (although possibly, I guess). Either way, I want Gentleman 1 to interact in real time before I push for that pair to be lynched.

[Gentleman 4]

@Lady 2 - the first post is just me talking about positives to the lynch, not actual support for it if that makes any sense. I can rephrase if it doesn't.

Maybe I'm wrong on the Gentleman 3 and Gentleman 1 thing. I'll look at both of them again tomorrow.

[Gentleman 4]

he disappears after the attention is off of him until I bring up suspicion of him again, at which point he fails to address any concerns and disappears into the blue.

Hi, not my job to address your vague concerns, but it is my job to answer questions, which nobody asked me last night?

I've already said I have no interest in getting involved with the shit fights today. I also have no interest in deciding which of the pairs that we're definitely going to lynch we should lynch first. But I also don't think we should discuss endgame pairings before intermission...

So that pretty much means shutting up and voting.

This is pretty much undeniably a scum post, like a lot of his other posts. I'm not really sure why people are defending him, you don't even really have to look.

[Gentleman 4]

Would you like to share your thoughts on the Lynch for today?

[Gentleman 4]

VOTE: Gentleman 3

[Gentleman 4]

I'll talk to you, Lady 6, if you want to talk about it, but I feel better about Gentleman 3 flipping scum than a lot of people here.

[Gentleman 4]

Gentleman 3's ISO looks significantly worse in contrast to his context than it does next to his own posts, Gentleman 6, which might explain why you don't see what I see. Or maybe we just disagree on him.

[Gentleman 4]

Spoiler:

I will go so far as to venture to say that I think the read on Gentleman 3 is generally shared by the majority and those who aren't part of that unanimity have weak enough reads that when players become more forthcoming about their stances tomorrow, they will be.

The funny part is even reading this I can't tell what the read is, but I assume it's town. (If I'm universally scumread I can't imagine this many people would care this much about who I ask.)

But if so many people think I'm town, then why are they pressuring me to pair by doubting my motives, rather than by explaining why expedient pairing is pro-town?

Like that's literally what's happening. The longer I wait, the more people are "omg I'm afraid G3 is scum stalling for info" and as far as I can remember, not a single person has tried to identify for what reason I might be stalling as TOWN and help me work it out.

So if I'm a universal townread like you say then people sure as hell aren't treating me like one.

Gentleman 3's comment about how he assumes that people are town reading him looks particularly bad when he follows it up with why that's a poor assumption. It looks like he's saying he thinks people are town reading him with the intent of making it true.

[Gentleman 4]

Spoiler:

Please don't read L4 off of my read on them, I'm not actually sure they're scum anymore.

...was there a time when you were sure she was scum?

Please don't read L4 off of my read on them, I'm not actually sure they're scum anymore.

...was there a time when you were sure she was scum?

This is an incredibly bad question.

The following interaction is particularly strange

Gentleman 3 comes off as somewhat overeager in his first question and looks like he's backtracking for the rest of it.

No, I was never 100% sure they were scum. There was a time that I was rather confidently scumreading them. I am no longer sure what my read on them is. Does that post really need to be asked?

Why are you repeatedly going after me forcing me to clarify things that really don't need any sort of clarification?

Because using imprecise language is bad? If you weren't sure she was scum, don't say you were sure, I don't really see what's hard about this.

Link, what do you want on the town pizza?

I'm partial to mushrooms.

You act like I'm the first person on MafiaScum to say that I'm no longer sure if someone is scum or not without an investigative result. It's not uncommon to use this phrasing without literally thinking someone is for sure, beyond reconsideration, scum.

You act like I'm the first person on MafiaScum to say that I'm no longer sure if someone is scum or not without an investigative result. It's not uncommon to use this phrasing without literally thinking someone is for sure, beyond reconsideration, scum.

Well, chalk it up to differing experiences I guess, because I rarely see this (unless you're talking about people tunneling when they really aren't as confident as they claim).

Regardless, I asked for clarification because I was unsure, and clarification I got. We don't really need to dwell on it anymore.

[Gentleman 4]

I meant to write what I did at the top of the post. The mushrooms comment looked particularly out of place - like someone was trying to escape a particularly uncomfortable situation.

[Gentleman 4]

Like literally you are the one who was ambiguous in that post, I was struggling to parse you, and you weren't helping. (I don't think you were even right as I was neither widely townread nor widely scumread at that time.)

I think you were pretty widely scumread, or at least people were leaning scum on you. I think the players who thought you were pretty townie were people like Gentleman 6 and Lady 5.

[Gentleman 4]

I think the point of my post is that you thinking people townread you doesn't make sense based on your own perceptions of the way people treat you, and yet you still remark that you think people are town reading you. Does that not seem strange?

[Gentleman 4]

I meant to write what I did at the top of the post. The mushrooms comment looked particularly out of place - like someone was trying to escape a particularly uncomfortable situation.

How would town be likely to respond to that question?

I think you'd be more interested in solving the issue at hand and worrying about pizza later.

[Gentleman 4]

Also Gentleman 3 has a strange attachment to Lady 4 and I'm not particularly sure why.

[Gentleman 4]

Like that's just pure confbias. My options were ignore, mock, or answer; I picked the one that wasn't rude, and you're saying I was trying to "escape an uncomfortable situation?" Give me a break.

Are you trying to deny the situation you were in at that point was uncomfortable for you?

Your dismissive language isn't helping your case, at least FMPOV.

[Gentleman 4]

When did G3 become “widely scumread?”

Didnt L2 and G3 literally vote me yesterday for shading G3 yesterday? Wasnt he a favorable read for most of the predance or am I wrong?

Maybe this is just me, but it definitely looked to me like Gentleman 3 was a pretty reasonable scum read for most of pre-dance, I thought the votes on you were for lack of directness in your read, but I might be wrong.

[Gentleman 4]

I guess we're in disagreement.

[Gentleman 4]

I think this is the first time I've felt comfortable in my scum read this game, too.

[Gentleman 4]

What actual reasons lol

I'm sure if they actually we're depending on mislynching me for the win they'd be able to find something more convincing than digging through my ISO and attaching random scum motivation to things.

Well that's hurtful. I just scum read different things for different reasons. I'm pretty comfortable in how often I'm correct in my reads, so I don't really have any interest in changing right now.

Also if I was scum I wouldn't be trying to take the lead on a lynch, I'd let Gentleman 6 run town over a cliff.

[Gentleman 4]

Yeah see that only works if Gentleman 6 is actually running town over a cliff when as a general rule he's not.

You must play significantly differently when I'm not around then.

Different reasons is fine. What you have are no reasons, and you claim they're reasons, but you can't actually explain why that behavior is more likely to come from scum than town.

Or I just have reasons and I have difficulty expressing them, but I gave it a shot and I'm right often enough that I don't really feel like moving my vote.

[Gentleman 4]

You're the most confident scum read I have right now.

I'm not particularly confident in any reads at the moment, though.

[Gentleman 4]

I'd say if you flipped town I'd be mildly surprised. I'd put you at probably 65% chance flipping scum, 35% chance of flipping town.

[Gentleman 4]

You're the most confident scum read I have right now.

I'm not particularly confident in any scum reads at the moment, though.

EBWOP

[Gentleman 4]

Okay, thanks. I'd bet that G6 is way more confident, probably at least an order of magnitude, in me being town, than you are in me being scum. If he flips town, would you agree to trust his read over your own?

If Gentleman 6 gives me a solid ranking of his reads in order of strength with attached alignments, and you are in his top 3 reads this game, I will drop my scum read of you for the time being. If he flips town after that, I'll consider you essentially locktown unless I find some reason that he was very likely to be wrong on you.

[Gentleman 4]

For obvious reasons, Gentleman 2 doesn't have to be on that list, but if he excludes Lady 8, you must be top 2.

unless I find some reason that he was very likely to be wrong on you.

I will almost always take your reads into account because they tend to be relatively solid, but I will also weigh my living reads heavier than your dead ones almost exclusively (though often enough I find we're relatively in sync, so.)

[Gentleman 4]

It does make me nervous considering Gentleman 6's alignment given how out of sync our reads are, however.

[Gentleman 4]

If that's Gentleman 6, he has absolutely no clue who I am because I have barely even heard of him.

[Gentleman 4]

Who's my main?

Also I don't understand equating Lady 3 to Ariana Grande's God is a Woman?

[Gentleman 4]

@Gentleman 2, request your thoughts on this:

Alright here's the couples I'm considering for today in no particular order:

Lady 5 and Gentleman 8:

Spoiler: I've already covered this, and I think it's a dead horse now, but here's my argument in case you missed it:

I still support a Lady 5 and Gentleman 8 lynch, because it will help me sort Lady 2 and Gentleman 3, it will remove a lot of the spam from the thread, I doubt they will make it much later anyways, neither of them will surprise me with a scum flip, and I think we can get enough agreement on it to get two lynches before intermission.

One point I specifically want to bring up about this pairing is this: a lot of people are having difficulty with too many town reads - Lady 4's reads list included not enough scum and Gentleman 6 recently expressed doubt in several of his scum reads, and this is often indicative of scum being in the lurker pile -> Gentleman 8.

Gentleman 5 and Lady 4: The case against Gentleman 5 is debatable. I've liked what he brought to the table in the past, but Gentleman 1 made a solid point about his Lady 2 "joke." I'm really not certain about this pair, I'd really rather have more time to sort through this, because I've been very much on the fence about both these player's alignments. I think based on Gentleman 5's "joke," flipping this pair might be indicative of Lady 2 scum.

Gentleman 3 and Lady 6: Lady 6 has said very convenient things at convenient times before, and several of her more interesting posts have been noted several times by other players. I will go through these when I get the chance, but I think she's slid significantly under the radar due to her absence. There have been a couple things she's done that have barely any game relevancy but can be indicative of her being town on her main account, though, so this is something to keep in consideration. I have never been a fan of Gentleman 3's posting, it all looks particularly fake and his activity has dropped conveniently after finding a partner - right around the same time everyone else was looking at Gentleman 5 and Lady 4.

Gentleman 1 and Lady 2: Not really a pairing I was considering at the beginning of the day, I like Gentleman 1 for the most part, but Lady 2's flip could help determine the alignment of several other players here and I've been less and less convinced by her posting recently.

[Gentleman 4]

Why do players who play dance games generally have bigger personalities?

Bigger personalities need more support and validation.

[Gentleman 4]

I honestly thought you meant make it to end game in the other sense of the word and I was very confused.

Why would you think G3 was claiming scum? That is the only other way I can see to interpret what he said.

I'm going to be honest, I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

And on re-read, I'm not really sure what I was getting at in the quoted post. I only really see one kind of "make it to end-game" right now, but I might not be all that mentally present at the moment.

[Gentleman 4]

Gentleman 1 we need to talk when you catch up.

You need to place a vote and I need to talk to you about where you stand.

[Gentleman 4]

Gentleman 6, would you give me a list of names in some sort of order that I can discern your read on people based off of them?

If you don't want to, that's fine, too, but I request you inform me if that's your intention.

-Gentleman 4.

[Gentleman 4]

I think the lack of really

solid

scum reads this game is interesting.

[Gentleman 4]

VOTE: Gentleman 6

[Gentleman 4]

I think scum want to aim to lose no scum before intermission, then kill me.

This is AtE, and so full of deceit I'm surprised you managed to get it closed without it seeping through the cracks.

[Gentleman 4]

I want you or me today, and if I don't get lynched and you flip town, I want Lady 3 to leave.

[Gentleman 4]

That post was an excuse for not actually doing anything productive towards town.

[Gentleman 4]

I mean, it's not AtE? It's not an emotional appeal?

Sorry - LAMIST

All crap looks the same color to me.

[Gentleman 4]

What path? Your thoughts have the cohesion of a frayed rope. You've provided no guidance, you've only refused lynches, you've hinted at Gentleman 1, but you refuse to push head-on.

[Gentleman 4]

You can't decide your position on Lady 5, Gentleman 8, you're constantly shading other players, the argument against Gentleman 5 was so full of crap that I mistook it for my sanitary tank.

[Gentleman 4]

You played the first half of day 1 solidly enough to convince people to trust you and then from there somehow your process just completely dissolved, your reads went to crap and you're trying to act like you don't trust anyone.

[Gentleman 4]

That post was an excuse for not actually doing anything productive towards town.

If not doing anything productive is a scumtell, why aren't you voting G8?

Is Gentleman 8 making excuses for avoiding questioning? He's just not present.

Also, I was voting Gentleman 8.

[Gentleman 4]

"Look at me I'm still town and if you come after me you're scum" as if nothing's going on in response to "I'm starting to suspect this other player" never looks good

[Gentleman 4]

You played the first half of day 1 solidly enough to convince people to trust you and then from there somehow your process just completely dissolved, your reads went to crap and you're trying to act like you don't trust anyone.

What is the point of posts like this? Are you trying to convince G6 that he's scum?

No. If you don't get it, you don't get it. I'm not really interested in explaining it right now.

[Gentleman 4]

You played the first half of day 1 solidly enough to convince people to trust you and then from there somehow your process just completely dissolved, your reads went to crap and you're trying to act like you don't trust anyone.

That's like obv-town signs?

No

It isn't

I'm not saying that he doesn't trust anyone

I'm saying he's acting like he doesn't trust anyone

I'm not saying he's having a hard time reading people

I'm saying he's intentionally reading people poorly

[Gentleman 4]

No. If you don't get it, you don't get it. I'm not really interested in explaining it right now.

Well then, I really can't feel bad for you when nobody listens to you.

So let me get this straight:

You interpreted the purpose of the post I made as specifically for trying to convince Gentleman 6 he's scum

So now you're trying to say that people aren't going to read posts I make to other people?

Like, if I legitimately made that post to convince Gentleman 6 he was scum, why would I need you to listen to me?

The only time I would need you to listen to me is if you actually understood what that post was trying to do, and if that's true, why did you ask such a stupid question?

[Gentleman 4]

I'm not saying that he doesn't trust anyone

I'm saying he's acting like he doesn't trust anyone

But, uh, if he is town who doesn't trust anyone, then he would act like he doesn't trust anyone...

yes

he would

but if he's scum who doesn't trust anyone

he would

act

like he doesn't trust anyone

and i'm not accusing him of the former

i think it's pretty obvious there are people in this game he trusts

[Gentleman 4]

You interpreted the purpose of the post I made as specifically for trying to convince Gentleman 6 he's scum

So now you're trying to say that people aren't going to read posts I make to other people?

I asked you to explain. You straight up said you wouldn't explain. I told you that if you don't explain what you're doing to people, they're not going to listen to you.

The purpose

of the post

was obvious

why are you trying to manipulate me into explaining the obvious to you?

[Gentleman 4]

Gentleman 3, you are so very much reading posts that I'm writing and drawing an entirely different conclusion from them than what I intend and it's really quite frustrating. I'm doing my best to restrain myself right now, but I'm going to ask that you spend just a little more time reading my posts and trying to get at what I actually mean before posting because some of your more recent comments look absolutely void of thought.

[Gentleman 4]

I'll push Lady 8 if that makes you happier, Gentleman 5?

[Gentleman 4]

Eh. I honestly don't care at this point. I have put more time and energy per real life day into this game than I have in any other game of mafia. And that's more than 7 years of mafia. I feel so solid on this read right now.

[Gentleman 4]

What is a chainsaw defense?

[Gentleman 4]

That's a joke, by the way.

[Gentleman 4]

The joke is funny, because calling what I'm doing a chainsaw defense and legitimately believing it is like trying to lynch firebringer when he opens with "I rolled scum guys" in the RVS stage of a game.

[Gentleman 4]

Eh. I honestly don't care at this point. I have put more time and energy per real life day into this game than I have in any other game of mafia. And that's more than 7 years of mafia. I feel so solid on this read right now.

Unfortunately playing mafia forever doesnt equate to accurate reads.

Time and energy, on the other hand, does.

And I wasn't saying I felt solid because of my time in mafia, I was saying it because of time and energy, hence sentence structure.

[Gentleman 4]

What if the scumteam is G1 G4 and G8?

G6 can you link your path to victory? I'm working 12 hour days until the weekend.

No, he can't.

I already asked him for it and his response was "if you try to lynch me, you're scum."

[Gentleman 4]

Eh. I honestly don't care at this point. I have put more time and energy per real life day into this game than I have in any other game of mafia. And that's more than 7 years of mafia. I feel so solid on this read right now.

Unfortunately playing mafia forever doesnt equate to accurate reads.

Time and energy, on the other hand, does.

And I wasn't saying I felt solid because of my time in mafia, I was saying it because of time and energy, hence sentence structure.

Whats really sad is I honestly thought you and G6 were going to reveal some damning information during the dance and town autowins.

We never got your reads

Yeah. Me too.

[Gentleman 4]

I followed Gentleman 6's process all the way through the first half of the game. Unfortunately, he stopped having one at a specific point (conveniently the point at which things were going really well for town) and then started hammering wildly at Gentleman 5 for barely any reason whatsoever. He continues to cause chaos into the beginning of the dance, at which point he all of a sudden drops his scum read on Gentleman 5 and then tries to oppose Gentleman 8 and Lady 5 just

barely

enough in order to let them still get lynched, but get town points for when they do. When they fail to get lynched, he tosses teasers out to see if Gentleman 8 and Lady 5 are still up for a lynch, but pretty much gives up, instead going for the second lynch-baitiest pair in the game - Gentleman 1, the man who's always behind.

[Gentleman 4]

There all of a sudden isn't any thought or depth to his reads for some reason, they're opportunistic and they grab at every town point he can get. He refuses to actually share where his reads are at or if there is any sort of path to victory, and yet he confidently proclaims he's presented people with one. He's living off of the sustained belief that he's lock town, established in your minds since early day 1, and he will continue to take advantage of this until he wins.

[Gentleman 4]

For some reason somehow we're supposed to believe that lynching Gentleman 1, the player who still hasn't read the entirety of the game thanks to a significant amount of chaos caused by Gentleman 6 himself is less lynch baity than Gentleman 8, another player who has just completely given up on reading the game whatsoever.

[Gentleman 4]

I want you or me today, and if I don't get lynched and you flip town, I want Lady 3 to leave.

[Gentleman 4]

I followed Gentleman 6's process all the way through the first half of the game. Unfortunately, he stopped having one at a specific point (conveniently the point at which things were going really well for town) and then started hammering wildly at Gentleman 5 for barely any reason whatsoever. He continues to cause chaos into the beginning of the dance, at which point he all of a sudden drops his scum read on Gentleman 5 and then tries to oppose Gentleman 8 and Lady 5 just

barely

enough in order to let them still get lynched, but get town points for when they do. When they fail to get lynched, he tosses teasers out to see if Gentleman 8 and Lady 5 are still up for a lynch, but pretty much gives up, instead going for the second lynch-baitiest pair in the game - Gentleman 1, the man who's always behind.

There all of a sudden isn't any thought or depth to his reads for some reason, they're opportunistic and they grab at every town point he can get. He refuses to actually share where his reads are at or if there is any sort of path to victory, and yet he confidently proclaims he's presented people with one. He's living off of the sustained belief that he's lock town, established in your minds since early day 1, and he will continue to take advantage of this until he wins.

This is all correct. But theres a reason he can do it.

I think most of the players are aware of who he is, and his suicide gambit makes him obvtown I think?

But yes, G6 went off the deep end last weekend when I asked him why he was ignoring me. Im not sure what caused this to happen. Good question to ask postgame

What suicide gambit? Has he actually tried to commit suicide, or was he reaching for town points?

[Gentleman 4]

Except you can just leave. Why would you say "I want lady 3 to leave" unless you're relying on her refusing to leave when the time comes to it?

I'm going to leave if you flip town. But me saying I'm going to leave doesn't hold me accountable in the slightest.

Me saying I want Lady 3 to leave does.

[Gentleman 4]

I want you or me today, and if I don't get lynched and you flip town, I want Lady 3 to leave.

Ok you are aware that we just did that earlier

P-Edit: It was for townpoints, thats the point of the gambit

Ok sure, but I've been thinking about mine for several IRL days now, probably close to a week. And I'm serious about mine.

And he's serious about mine.

Also yeah you're right in that it was a gambit, but the fact that he was trying to grab extra town points doesn't ring alarm bells in your head? Why not just do it for real.

[Gentleman 4]

Anyway, I told G4 that when G1 flips scum he's next several times in no uncertain terms and then he and G1 both decided to start calling me scum. This situation isn't rocket science.
G4 is trying to not even let me get a flip off on G1: where's the town motivation in that? What if I'm right? Isn't it correct to verify that my reads are actually wrong before deciding to push me for that?
On the other hand, if I'm voting scum whose flip makes G4 look awful and there's no real way out for scum after G1 goes down, since G4 is more townread yes forcing this 1v1 is an obvious play for scum to make.
I am going to vote Gentleman 4 because I think that it's more important that he go down than that Gentleman 1 go down since G1 isn't really making late game but a lot of people townread G1.

VOTE: G4

That's an awful lot of explanation.

An awful lot more than you needed.

[Gentleman 4]

Unfortunately your explanation doesn't even make sense.

If we win if we flip scum in this phase

why does it matter which of us flips first if one of us is scum?

[Gentleman 4]

Ive stopped questioning the dude.

That's the problem.

[Gentleman 4]

I think we've both at least hinted at suspecting the other for a very long time.

[Gentleman 4]

The most important thing to explain here is why they shouldn't townread you for this specific outburst because this kind of shit tends to get townread.
See: Shoshin in baton pass making a similar outburst against noted town player RadiantCowbells because RadiantCowbells was pushing for 2 scum to die.

She got townread.

Unfortunately your explanation doesn't even make sense.

If we win if we flip scum in this phase

why does it matter which of us flips first if one of us is scum?

I mean, it doesn't. So why is it scummy for me to switch to you? You yourself said that you wanted the 1v1 against me and I'm obliging: how are you pushing that as a scumtell?

Shoshin didn't get town read for that, at least not by the majority of players.

In addition, in Fire on the Mountain where noted scum player RadiantCowbells had a conveniently town process that lead to the lynch of scum on day 1, but then shortly after that somehow lost his process - it became completely unfollowable.

[Gentleman 4]

I think it should also be noted that it is relatively typical for scum player RadiantCowbells to have an easy process that works for the entirety of the game as town, and one that somehow doesn't work halfway through the game as scum.

[Gentleman 4]

In fact, scum player RadiantCowbells some how mas many things in common with the items noted here.

[Gentleman 4]

Also, we've seen literally 1 flip this game. Lady 1. Who I said was almost definitely town and should get a partner. So you're pushing the case that my reads are wrong without a single flip that goes against what I'm proposing. Even you weren't considering G1/L2 as a potential endgame pairing: if you were town you would have waited to see that flip both in order to use it against me if it was wrong and to make absolutely sure that your push on me was correct.

No, I'm not reading you based on your reads, I'm reading you based on your process.

[Gentleman 4]

Fuck it, L4 can whine about it later.

VOTE: G4/L3

You should wait

I'm waiting on something and then I can share my reads.

[Gentleman 4]

After I've shared my entire game reads you can vote me to your hearts content.

[Gentleman 4]

Put yourself in G4's shoes here. Do you really believe he goes after me for having wrong reads without seeing the results of a single push that I've made?
It's a terrible idea because he doesn't know if I'm flipping scum or town, and it's a terrible idea because he's pushing the lynch entirely on conjecture.
Whereas if he knows that the G1 flip is going to immediately lead to his own, then yes, he is going to go after me now before the flip because the flip is already a lose condition for him.

No matter what Gentleman 1 flips, I don't think you're town. You've bussed before, and if I wait until after Gentleman 1 flips, you just tell your partner to leave so that you can night kill me and then proceed as usual.

[Gentleman 4]

We don't win on 1 scum flip unless we have enough confirmed pairs of town, and if you're scum, then your confirmed town pairs aren't town.

[Gentleman 4]

It's really that simple. Like ignoring the fact that scumreading me here is batshit insane.

Ignoring the fact that my process for a long part of this game was just me flailing and trying to push policy lynches and he didn't scumread me then
But when I started to collect myself, find legitimate scumreads that I wanted to push, and start focusing on setting up endgaming pairings (that didn't include him)

When my process started to become towny (and therefore I became an actual threat because I was focused on pushing an endgame town wincondition) that's when he went after me.

I guarantee you that he flips scum.

No, I've been suspecting you all game.

I have a very full set of notes that I'd like to share, but I made the mistake of posting them in my partner PT before I posted them in the game thread and now I don't know if I can share them here based on rules about copy/pasting from PTs.

[Gentleman 4]

Alright, FakeGod has accepted me sharing this.

So I've decided to share and added a few words here and there (and removed several). Mostly up here, though.

Several of my observations are stupid. I know. I understand this in review, but seeing my stupid observations helps sometimes.

Spoiler: Reminders

Reminder that I have a question for Gentleman 3 in 1684 that's relatively easy to miss and I need to make sure he doesn't miss it.
Reminder to discuss Lady 3 with Gentleman 4 tomorrow.
Reminder to look at Lady 8's 847 later.

Spoiler: Day 1 Catch-Up

Day 1 Catch-Up

Page 1

Lady 7 appears to already be trying to analyze everything and comes across as somewhat genuine.

+1 Town Points

Lady 5's post about the smileys is self-aware and possibly scum indicative.

+1 Scum Points

Lady 5 seems somewhat nervous and shallow.

By the bottom of Page 1, Lady 3 seems the least

gray.

Lady 3 appears very genuine.

+1 Town Points

Winner of the Page: Lady 3, for an extra town point.

+1 Town Points

Page 2

Lady 4's post seems abruptly perpendicular to the conversation.

+1 Scum Points

Gentleman 3 does not seem at home.

+1 Scum Points

By the bottom of Page 2, Lady 4 seems obtuse and unapproachable.
Winner of Page 2: Lady 4, for an extra scum point.

+1 Scum Points

Page 3

Lady 4 continues to feel ...

off.

+1 Scum Points

Lady 8 mentions Lady 9 as her first impression of the game. Considering Lady 9's post also struck me at first as somewhat townie, I appreciate that.

+1 Town Points

Lady 9's posting is more likely to come from town than scum.

+1 Town Points

By the bottom of Page 3, I feel as if the reads on Lady 5 pile up quickly on something that could easily come from town.
Winner of Page 3: Lady 3, for an extra town point.

+1 Town Points

Page 4

Lady 4 seems particularly interested in making sure Lady 5 doesn't get too much shade. The first sentence of 75 is worded incorrectly to come from town.

+1 Scum Points

Lady 4 remarks on the lack of participation from Lady 1, yet so many gentlemen have yet to share, and I still find very little reason to find her clear.

+1 Scum Points

Lady 8's posting on this page seems very pro-town.

+1 Town Points

Lady 9 is aware of why Lady 5 came off scummy.

+1 Town Points

By the bottom of Page 4, Gentleman 3 has yet to make a good impression on me.
Winner of Page 4: Gentleman 3, for an extra scum point.

+1 Scum Points

Page 5

Lady 5 seems somewhat confident in her ability to play mafia, and yet nervous about her position.

+1 Scum Points

Gentleman 3 is still not adding anything particularly new to the game, and seems to be particularly familiar with Lady 5, as indicated in 116.

+1 Scum Points

Lady 4 appears to be specifically attempting to remove responsibility for any discrepancies between her opinion and that of the Lady 9's in 108.

+1 Scum Points

Lady 9 seems to be consistently pro-town.

+1 Town Points

Lady 8 seems to be consistently pro-town.

+1 Town Points

Gentleman 6 has had solid contributions up to this point. I think this is probably town indicative.

+1 Town Points

By the bottom of Page 5, Lady 4 consistently makes me feel uncomfortable.
Winner of Page 5: Lady 4, for an extra scum point.

+1 Scum Points

Page 6

Lady 8's question about deciding on pairings instead of allowing players to play for themselves isn't particularly townie, but I don't think it's particularly scummy, either.
Lady 7's response to Lady 8 about Lady 8's question implies Lady 8 has avoided/ignored game relevant play for mechanical discussion, which, to my knowledge, she hasn't.

+1 Scum Points

Lady 4's 127 is the first thing that seems genuine and up front from her, but I still have a hard time as seeing it as particularly townie, and her stance in 129 offsets it.
Gentleman 6 made a post I liked in 130.

+1 Town Points

Gentleman 3's 134 doesn't say anything new or not particularly obvious. Again.

+1 Scum Points

Interactions in 134, 136, and 137 don't seem particularly natural and seem like they could easily all three come from scum.
Gentleman 3

+1 Scum Points

Lady 4

+1 Scum Points

Lady 5

+1 Scum Points

Lady 9's responses to Lady 4 seem amiable enough to be town, although I don't particularly agree with them.

+1 Town Points

Gentleman 6 and I are very much on the same page about Lady 4 in 141.

+1 Town Points

Lady 7's response to Lady 5 here is good, I think, although I'm not particularly comforted that the first thought that came to mind when I saw this post was "where has she (7) been?"

+1 Town Points

Gentleman 3's 145 is contrary to a pro-town mindset.

+1 Scum Points

I disagree with 146 and I would be more than willing to discuss why.

Lady 5's reasoning in 147 doesn't make sense. Also the post isn't a particularly pro-town one.

+1 Scum Points

By the bottom of Page 6, Gentleman 6 has consistently posted in ways that make me think he is very likely town.
Winner of Page 6: Gentleman 6, for an extra town point.

+1 Town Points

Page 7

Gentleman 3 isn't bringing up anything particularly useful in 150, in fact, it seems apparent it is being added mostly for the sake of seeming like he has something to contribute.

+1 Scum Points

Lady 5's 154 does not approach the game the way a town player would.

+1 Scum Points

Lady 5's 156 seems unaware of how a town player with any serious understanding of the game would approach it, and seems contrary to her previous confidence.

+1 Scum Points

Gentleman 6 continues to display a headspace similar to my own.

+1 Town Points

Lady 4 seems unnecessarily hostile and argumentative.

+1 Scum Points

Lady 2 makes a solid impression on this page with her first real post (as far as I can remember).

I still disagree with Lady 9's defense of Lady 4. Pretty strongly.

Gentleman 3's proposal to the group for Gentleman 2 seems unnaturally similar in mindset to Lady 5's proposal the day before.

+1 Scum Points

By the bottom of Page 7, I don't have any particularly deserving of an extra point in any direction.
Winner of Page : No one.

Page 8

Lady 4's post 177 is actually relatively aware of certain fears of my own.

+1 Town Points

Lady 4's post 179 is rather hostile, and I disagree with it.

+1 Scum Points

Gentleman 3's response to Gentleman 6 is silly and again, adds nothing new.

+1 Scum Points

Gentleman 6 is still very much in a similar place to me.

+1 Town Points

Lady 4 is still hostile and, I agree with Lady 9, misrepresentative.

By the bottom of Page 8, Lady 9 is consistently playing the game with a pro town mindset, regardless of how much I agree with her or not.
Winner of Page 8: Lady 9, for an extra town point.

+1 Town Points

Page 9

I don't really agree with Lady 9's analysis on Gentleman 6 or really the reasoning, but I can see where she's coming from, I think. I need to look closer at Lady 2. I spend so much time agreeing with the things Gentleman 6 is saying that I'm starting to see discussion with/posts about him as being about myself, and that's a strange feeling as I have to remember I am Gentleman 4. I need to look into Lady 2. I don't have a whole lot of other things to say on this page.

By the bottom of Page 9, I want to award an extra scum point to Lady 2 because I think there's a somewhat larger possibility there is one scum between her and Lady 9 because of Lady 9's post on this page, and I'm leaning town on Lady 9.
Winner of Page 9: Lady 2, for an extra scum point.

+1 Scum Points

Page 10

There is nothing on Page 10 that strikes me as particularly discussion-worthy or alignment indicative.

Page 11

Why is Gentleman 3 disappointed in Gentleman 6 scum reading Lady 4?

Gentleman 5 is approaching the game from a pro town mindset.

+1 Town Points

Gentleman 5's approach to Lady 2 is good and one that I didn't see off the bat, but on second look, I agree with.

+1 Town Points

Gentleman 5 seems to be consistently pro-town.

+1 Town Points

I want to note that I disagree with the idea that people shouldn't pair off yet, I think. My stance isn't all that strong here, though.

Lady 4's appeal to emotion seems particularly unnecessary.

By the bottom of Page 11, Gentleman 5 has posted a lot of things off the cuff that I very much agree with.
Winner of Page 11: Gentleman 5, for an extra two town points.

+2 Town Points

Page 12

Lady 7 posts and it isn't particularly game related. This is also the first time she's posted in a while.

+1 Scum Points

Lady 7's reads feel fabricated.

+1 Scum Points

Lady 1's first post doesn't feel towny. I'm also not certain why so many people (three, by my count) seem concerned with forcing consensus town reads. Why is it so difficult to just let people post their reads and then naturally build from there?

+1 Scum Points

By the bottom of Page 12, Lady 1 was late to the game, I didn't really like her introductory post, she asks for who other players are reading without providing any of her own (which makes me think she's looking for clues as to who to read how and what from other people) and her post seems to be filled with excuses.
Winner of Page 12: Lady 1, for an extra two scum points.

+2 Scum Points

Page 13

Lady 4 has two notable town reads, one of which is pretty controversial, a read I've asked her about already (later in the game) and she initially avoided in 885 before coming up with a response a couple posts later.

+1 Scum Points

I'm saving 302 for later because it makes at least one solid point I want to investigate more.

Lady 1 continues to add absolutely nothing.

+1 Scum Points

Lady 1 adds absolutely nothing twice in a row.

+1 Scum Points

Lady 1 gets tic-tac-toe.

+1 Scum Points

By the bottom of Page 13, I am quickly losing my town read on Lady 7 by merit of her inability to add anything impressive.
Winner of Page 13: Lady 7, for an extra scum point.

+1 Scum Points

Page 14

is boring.

By the bottom of Page 14, I'm redistributing some points because I'm reconsidering some reads on certain pepole.
Winners of Page 14: Lady 7, Lady 1, and Lady 4, for an extra town point each.

+3 Town Points Total

Page 15

is also boring.

By the bottom of Page 15, Gentleman 3 has reminded me that I scumread him.
Winner of Page 15: Gentleman 3, for an extra scum point.

+1 Scum Points

Page 16

Lady 2 is making a strong second impression. (I have a bad habit of not really reading her posts. I will come back to her later.)

+1 Town Points

By the bottom of Page 16, I town read Gentleman 6 so much that the points are barely worth noting anymore. I think he's almost indisputably town at this point.
Winner of Page 16: Gentleman 6, for town points until he is considered town.

+18 Town Points

I might need to re-examine my scale considering how many points a player would need to be considered town.

Page 17

is not worth noting.

Page 18

Lady 8 is reminding me why I town read her.

+1 Town Points

Gentleman 1 is making a strong first impression.

+1 Town Points

By the bottom of Page 18, Gentleman 1 is making a very strong first impression.
Winner of Page 18: Gentleman 1, for an extra two town points.

+2 Town Points

Page 19

was found to be wanting in terms of information worth talking about.

Page 20

I disagree with Gentleman 7 on the pairing between Gentleman 4 and Lady 3, but I don't know if I consider this alignment indicative or just a difference of approach.

Gentleman 3 posted a lot of town reads and I don't know that I particularly agree with the ladies he posted.

+1 Scum Points

Gentleman 3 is posting in a way that reads as tonally scummy to me.

+1 Scum Points

By the bottom of Page 20, I don't find anyone particularly lacking in points that I wish to give out.
Winner of Page 20: No one.

I found further pages less efficient to continue noting as such, and thus anything past this was read with less... errr ... fervor. I also found few posts worth awarding points in future posts.

At this point there was an intermission. Several real life days later I came back and reviewed Lady 8's ISO (I had been skimming her posts until then) and responded to the quoted posts below before continuing where I left off.

First, let us discuss Lady 8:
The following posts feel a bit off-putting. I understand her approach to Lady 5 is to not take as AI what is quite possibly not, but the way she words her mindset makes her come off as if she's trying to force a read that isn't there.

Spoiler:

Eh, the smileys themselves feel a little overdone and forced, to me no more or less than the offer to tone them down. But I suppose some at the masque feel some attraction in the idea of putting up a different front than usual. Might just be neutral. But it does feel like one extra barrier to get through to read her.

~

I'm feeling just a littttle regret here. For a moment just now I thought I should have joined this game as Gentleman, you know, I'm in touch with my masculine side. Because if I were I could yolo an invitation to dance with someone? I'll be honest. The usernames we were given are bland, which, fine. There are no votes, no traditional RVS-like stage with, you know, votes. And I'm stuck as a lovely Lady with no concrete game-related, like,

offers

I can make for people to respond to the way I could do with a vote in a game where everyone has a vote. Like sure I like L9 well enough Town. She seems to have her head in the game. Though to be honest even though their avatars aren't different she and L7 are kind of occupying the same spot in my brain, so. Great. Wonderful. The rest is a mush of people toying with yes admittedly a mostly NAI thing from L5. Oh okay G6 for your last two posts you seem chill as well.

And actually Lady 5, if you're asking, I

do

find the cutesy smileys, punctuating nearly your every sentance, irritating. Saccharine. I'm interested to see if you toning it down a bit can help me read you and other people. Offer accepted.

Lady 8's discussion about how difficult it is for her to engage in this post also makes me feel uncomfortable, but her analysis at the end is very much closer to what I'd expect to see from town - I think this sort of thing is much more difficult to fake as scum.

Spoiler:

I'm not a town leader type.

Could have fooled me. I think you might make a fine one. Maybe at an ordinary dance you wouldn't. But tonight you're wearing the mask. Why not go for it?

I do not like Lady 2.

Fair. I probably wouldn't like me either, and I know it, and it's really gnawing at me. Something isn't gelling. I want to be engaging here. Like genuinely I do. But it's not working, apparently. Like it's apparent even to me that I'm trying to say something but I get passed right by, like a ghost. Maybe it's posting while working, here and there, while other people are managing to have actual back-and-forth conversations.

Like L9, G3, L7, G6 are all sensible. L5 is ... fine. Can stay. L4 ... feels kind of like I do? I mean at the very least I'm sympathetic to her early frustration due to distraction and/or generic names. I'm not sure about her backing down immediately and completely after tbh a mild riposte from G3 early (I'm rereading, because yeah, I need to find some kind of foothold). Like, whatever it is, it's a firmer backing up than necessary but probably NAI. L8, kind of a low-key entrance as well? I'm not really getting much there. I do feel like trending Townread on L5 is a fake unpopular opinion? Like I don't think it was every truly going against the grain?

Mostly I want to know how L4 reads G6.

Oh, G4 also kind of lower bracket. Actually scratch that, I like him taking the offered mantle as Town leader. That's actually quite fine. Same with early offer. Actually even better. I saw the jokey pizza post and was wondering how long that shtick would take to play out. Moving fast on an offer was a strong Town move, like he stepped up to the plate and then actually delivered. Good choice of initial offer, too. L3 was in early but did and said little. G4's offer will offer some focus in a new direction.

I do actually like the broad strokes of the treanding-towards-consensus reads I'm seeing. I actually like all the active gentlemen fairly well, G3, G4, and G6 all Townleaning for me.

Lady 1 is an interesting point of engagement, and yet she is the choice of Lady 2. I think I understand why, and I want to town read Lady 2, but my gut is putting me off of it for now.

Spoiler:

Fair. I probably wouldn't like me either, and I know it, and it's really gnawing at me. Something isn't gelling. I want to be engaging here. Like genuinely I do. But it's not working, apparently. Like it's apparent even to me that I'm trying to say something but I get passed right by, like a ghost. Maybe it's posting while working, here and there, while other people are managing to have actual back-and-forth conversations.

Okay, that's fair, I noticed that the posts you did have were complaining about Lady 5's use of smilies rather than engaging with the game and that concerns me.

Like L9, G3, L7, G6 are all sensible. L5 is ... fine. Can stay. L4 ... feels kind of like I do?

I do actually like the broad strokes of the treanding-towards-consensus reads I'm seeing. I actually like all the active gentlemen fairly well, G3, G4, and G6 all Townleaning for me.

Flipping this around, do you have any scumreads?

I mean, there are a few ladies and gents I'm kind of meh about but not strongly so, including L1, L8. Still skeptical of L4, not sure how much of that is being colored by a strong early Townread on G6.

Wondering if L4 can explain why she might be Townreading me actually? Every other direct mention of me between my last post and this seemed to fit well, if that makes sense (RIP Dannflor btw) but I'm still having trouble developing I guess a mental representation of L4 and her reads, including her maybe read on me.

L1, why are you focusing on predance strat talk instead of the material generated so far? In exchange I'll repeat my Townreads for your convenience: G2, G4, G6, L9, weaker read in that direction on L7. Had G3 down as well but I'm not sure it's really for anything besides him seeming comfortable and casual in tone and response, might just been NAI good vibes going on there.

Spoiler:

These posts from Lady 8 I think I like quite a bit. Most of them feel very genuine (though some are genuine feelings one might expect from scum as well as town). Her calling out Gentleman 7 is particularly down the train of thought that I like to see from town, and I do appreciate that her targets have been players that haven't necessarily been getting the attention they need from the game.

Please don't read L4 off of my read on them, I'm not actually sure they're scum anymore.

Yeah I'm consciously trying

not

to let your read (at the time) on L4 color mine too specifically.

~

No, I was never 100% sure they were scum. There was a time that I was rather confidently scumreading them. I am no longer sure what my read on them is. Does that post really need to be asked?

Why are you repeatedly going after me forcing me to clarify things that really don't need any sort of clarification?

Because using imprecise language is bad? If you weren't sure she was scum, don't say you were sure, I don't really see what's hard about this.

??? tho

~

Okay thanks L4, your thinking is starting to fit and make sense as a cohesive thing.

L7, you want a pseudo-vote, make one yourself. At the very least, if you think that type of vote is a good strategy, tell us which of the ladies you would like to see left out. Otherwise all I'm seeing is setup stuff from you, and it's like busy work. Talking about voting a lady to ditch but not doing it. Talking about basically the same IC-pairing approach that's been most favored. Talking about a pairing strategy L1 has focused most of her energy on. It's not getting much done.

And like hell should G4 retract his invite to L3 (not that I think he can legally?). Talk about muddying waters. L3 is being quite sensible about the invitation, too.

~

Oh damn. Brutal.

(In response to being the least cute lady by Gentleman 6's standards.

~

I don't want to be too emotionally invested in my cuteness factor, but I have to admit it stings a little.

After continuing to read posts from Lady 8, my head becomes an echo chamber and I begin to have the same thoughts over and over again; To simplify: Lady 8 is specific in who she responds to and how. Her words are chosen, but that's not to say they don't flow. She could be hiding something and I don't particularly follow her thoughts on Lady 2 at the moment, but there's certainly a lot of thought there (often more than what I see from many of the active players) and she appears to be actively sorting. I will engage with her more when she appears again in an attempt to get a more definitive hold on her alignment.

Posts that caught my eye earlier but I didn't pay particular attention to:

Spoiler: In case Lady 5 flips red - posts particularly interesting from Lady 5

If both Gent 1 and Lady 8 are town.
They will by far be the power house town needs to win.
The reason Gent 2 should go with Lady 7 is because Lady 7 is feel could be the most possible Deep Wolf so making the confirmed Town partners with them could help in the long run.
As for Gent 5 with Gent 2 I also feel another power house town can be made.
With both their play style’s together it can make with some good late game solving

I’ll now be gone for the day.
Cya.

Why would Lady 5 want Lady 7 to make it to late game if she is a deep wolf?

Here’s how I would order everyone.

Gentleman 1 - Lady 8
Gentleman 2 - Lady 7
Gentleman 3 - Myself
Gentleman 4 - Lady 3
Gentleman 5 - Lady 2
Gentleman 6 - Lady 9
Gentleman 7 - Lady 1 or 6
Gentleman 8 - Lady 4

This is the first post I remember from Lady 5 outright asking Gentleman 3 to propose. I need to look into this more, though.
After revision this is not true. She at the very least hints at being a couple in several other places, including 510.
~~~~~

Spoiler: In case Gentleman 7 flips town - also a solid grouping of posts where people talk about who would make good partners for whom

Ok, so I most want someone that I can just throw stupid amounts of shit theories at and see what sticks and sift through my mental avalanche.

If I could assign pairings the entire way down:
G1 - L2
G2 - L9
G3 - L5
G4 - L1
G5 - L4
G6 - L7
G7 - L3
G8 - L8

I think. I made that list just now, but that's kinda where my head is it.

To be honest, I don't really think that you'll get that opportunity for very long, if anything, since you're the IC. As for your pairings, I would kind of prefer to switch myself-L3 with G4-L1. I'm under the impression L1 is a mechanical player and I'm not quite feeling that that's a good blend with G4 (Okay, mostly it's that I'm also a mechanical player and think I'll do well with L1). Also kinda meh on G1-L2 because I'm liking G1 and not liking L2 as much. I don't really know how to swap things around, though. And then there's the next point, see below.

I would encourage people to match with people they don't agree with on everything to avoid echo chambers. Just as an FYI.

Ok so, does anyone have issues with me asking Lady 9?

Also I re-quoted the above because I feel like it is important. I kind of really want G1 and L2 together. I am against the G4/L3. I also feel like L5's deep wolf comment on L7 deserves scrutiny. At this point I would be encouraging L5 to be the Lady left out.

I think I missed the L1 thing about avatars so someone want to let me know what happened with that.

I'm not really against you pairing with L9, but I would prefer G6 right now, because both of them feel very town-solvy to me, and it would make the scum have to choose between killing that pair and killing you and your partner--essentially I feel like L9's a bit too strong to pair with you. I'm not really against it, but I kind of want to do like IC with 2nd most townread lady, and most townread lady to go with 2nd most townread gentleman.

I was actually wanting for you to be with L5 initially, but her recent posts are making me reconsider. If I think she's town, I'll be in favour of that pairing, though.

Here’s how I would order everyone.

Gentleman 1 - Lady 8
Gentleman 2 - Lady 7
Gentleman 3 - Myself
Gentleman 4 - Lady 3
Gentleman 5 - Lady 2
Gentleman 6 - Lady 9
Gentleman 7 - Lady 1 or 6
Gentleman 8 - Lady 4

If both Gent 1 and Lady 8 are town.
They will by far be the power house town needs to win.
The reason Gent 2 should go with Lady 7 is because Lady 7 is feel could be the most possible Deep Wolf so making the confirmed Town partners with them could help in the long run.
As for Gent 5 with Gent 2 I also feel another power house town can be made.
With both their play style’s together it can make with some good late game solving

L5, you wanted to talk, I hope you have time.

What exactly are you seeing with G5/L2? I'm not really convinced.
Also, why did you give me two options, out of all the others?
I do agree with G6/L9 for non-meme reasons.
Eh, do you like G3? I'm not really seeing that either.
And I disagree over pairing L7 with G2 with that reason. For G2's partner, it should be someone that is widely trusted by everyone, especially him. If we have a partner who's too scummy, it's going to result in either G2 leaving or people lynching them. Which could work if the partner is mafia, but to win, we really only need one surviving T/T pairing who is universally townread.


In other news, I wish I could stop feeling like I'm walking through cement when I go around on this website.

Gentleman 7's interactions with Lady 5 are interesting and very nearly sitting on the fence. I really want to hear more from him about her.

Gentleman 7 provides amplification later with this:

I'm not really against you pairing with L9, but I would prefer G6 right now, because both of them feel very town-solvy to me, and it would make the scum have to choose between killing that pair and killing you and your partner--essentially I feel like L9's a bit too strong to pair with you. I'm not really against it, but I kind of want to do like IC with 2nd most townread lady, and most townread lady to go with 2nd most townread gentleman.

I was actually wanting for you to be with L5 initially, but her recent posts are making me reconsider. If I think she's town, I'll be in favour of that pairing, though.

Gentleman 7, this implies you were in favor of Lady 5 earlier, what did you see there that made you think she was town, and what made you doubt that she could be town?

What do you think of her now?

I kind of felt like she was being too scumread relative to what she'd posted initially, where she was being suspected for small things like her posting style. It felt like it was someone who would be a bit of a safer target. I didn't really like her afterwards, because I've found her to be opaque and not really open to explaining things.

I'm not really a fan now because she doesn't really feel like she's engaging people directly.

For now I will call him town, I think his inquisitive and investigative attitude is very much one that would be difficult to fake as scum.
~~~~~

Spoiler: Lady 7's post of interest

OMG that was so annoying. I got caught up but it took an hour longer than it should and I didn't have, so I'm just gonna jot down some quick thoughts. I don't really have great analysis anyway; there wasn't a whole lot that actually stood out to me. And this feels like one of those games that's gonna take me longer to get reads I feel comfortable with, which sucks but bleh.

For the ladies:

I think I'm coming around to actually feeling quite good about L4. This is mostly a thread presence read as she's here quite often with a lot of pop ins and poking/commenting on a lot. It's just a kind of thread presence that feels more townie than scummy and I've liked some of the little emotional flourishes in some of her posts. This is probably the closest to an actual town read among the ladies.

I do like things from L3 (the pop in asking L6 about his L8 read was something that felt good), L2 (The kind of wistful/regretful posts feel nonmanipulative), L9 (good thread presence but analytical types take me longer to read.

For the men:

G2 - Duh. I do like the approach he's taking as IC right now actually.

G6 - My towniest read among the men, and this is approaching actual town read status too. I like his thread presence and most of his interactions. His read/pushing then backing off and being torn on L4 feel real enough.

And then I'm in a wasteland. Tonally G3 feels fine most of the time, but his discussion with G6 felt a bit too much based on semantics. I'm not sure what to make of it with G3 town reading G6. Communication clash maybe? Anyway I want to like him just because he feels good tonally but. Some of G1's posts I like, some of them feel like posting to post. I think most of his quotestripe posts feel posting to post with really nothing there. G7 is way wooden and too focused on mechanics. G4 plays around a lot and that gives me nothing. I liked G5's flurry but it was short-lived so we'll have to see what g5 brings when he shows up. I like G8's Michael role-play.

Oh I liked G4's town it up people post.

So, yep, there's where I'm at. Don't you wanna dance with me *kisses* :p

Lady 7 and 4 are ladies of interest especially when discussing each other, I think.


~~~~~

Spoiler: Gentleman 3 makes a post contesting the reads against him. I find it interesting but without too much alignment information, I don't have too much to reference it with

I mean I think it's pretty clear-cut?
I ask for clarification in 350
G6 calls my questioning bad and heavily implies that it's scummy in 354 and 356
I defend my question by telling G6 that he shouldn't be ambiguous in 362
I later explain that I only wanted a clarification (372)

~~~~~

Spoiler: Back to reading the thread.

I very rarely get mired enough in detail to notice something like this but I actually think you're revising history and full of shit here.

Lady 4 makes a post I actually very much agree with (in response to Gentleman 3), and I think this makes me more likely to think Lady 4 is town.

+1 Town Points

Lady 8's mindset in 506 is pro-town.

+1 Town Points

Gentleman 3 seems to regularly be backtracking and rephrasing/restating, and often in a way that seems to contradict his earlier approach. I specifically disagree with 507 although that one in particular might not be AI.

+1 Scum Points

Lady 8 pushes a pro-town game state several times on page 21.

+1 Town Points

Gentleman 1's 550 strikes me as townie.

+1 Town Points

Lady 7's 555 comforts me somewhat on her role.

+1 Town Points

Lady 9 approach on

Page 28

is pro-town.

+1 Town Points

Lady 5 begins to look somewhat towny on

Page 29

.

+1 Town Points

Lady 3 continues to look good on

Page 29

.

+1 Town Points

Lady 4's 753 looks tonally town to me.

+1 Town Points

Gentleman 3's 762 looks like an excuse to have room to scum read a player.

+1 Scum Points

Lady 9's 774 is strikingly town.

+1 Town Points

Gentleman 5's 800 is strikingly town.

+1 Town Points

Lady 7's 832 is remarkably townie.

+1 Town Points

Lady 6's 834 feels off.

+1 Scum Points

Lady 4's 846 is good.

+1 Town Points

Lady 8's 908 concerning Gentleman 5 is awkward and out of place. If Gentleman 5 flips scum, I want to look at Lady 8 again.

+1 Scum Points

Gentleman 5's immediate response diffuses most of my fear there, however.

+1 Town Points

Lady 3 shares on

Page 42

in ways that I like. I think she's likely town.

+1 Town Points

Spoiler: Lady 3's Preferred Partnerships

Gent 2 - Lady 1

Gent 6 - Lady 3
Gent 4 - Lady 9
Gent 1 - Lady 7

Gent 5 - Lady 4
Gent 3 - Lady 2
Gent 7 - Lady 8

Gent 8 - Lady 6

Lady 5

Spoiler: Even more thread reading

Spoiler: Colors

+1 Scum Points

+1 Town Points

Spoiler: Legend

5 Points in a direction - Leaning
10 Points in a direction - Likely
15 Points in a direction - Probably
20 Points in a direction - Almost Certainly
25 Points in a direction - Town/Scum

============================================

Various Thoughts that Happen as the Game Happens

Spoiler: On Gentleman 3's Perception of Other Players and How They Read Him

I will go so far as to venture to say that I think the read on Gentleman 3 is generally shared by the majority and those who aren't part of that unanimity have weak enough reads that when players become more forthcoming about their stances tomorrow, they will be.

The funny part is even reading this I can't tell what the read is, but I assume it's town. (If I'm universally scumread I can't imagine this many people would care this much about who I ask.)

But if so many people think I'm town, then why are they pressuring me to pair by doubting my motives, rather than by explaining why expedient pairing is pro-town?

Like that's literally what's happening. The longer I wait, the more people are "omg I'm afraid G3 is scum stalling for info" and as far as I can remember, not a single person has tried to identify for what reason I might be stalling as TOWN and help me work it out.

So if I'm a universal townread like you say then people sure as hell aren't treating me like one.

If Gentleman 3 thinks the majority of the player base is town reading him, he might be legitimately town. Yet, even as I write this I feel as if I write contradictory to what I believe.

Spoiler: On Hesitation Over Gentleman 7

I think it would be good for me to have a partner early, and I think of the ladies, three is best for me.

So, my dear, I'd like to re-extend my offer.

Lady 3, dance with me?

Am I misremembering this, or did G4 like L3 all game, get replaced, and then the replacement went right back to liking L3 again? I haven't really seen what L3's done that's towny, and I'm garbage at identifying mains. I'm suspicious of this pair, but at the same time, I don't really think that either of them have enough town equity to be an S/S pair that will survive to the end.

I feel like my stronger lady townreads (L7, sort of L4) are too towny

I meant to ask about this earlier, why is L4 listed as sort of and not the other way around? I didn't think you had that much of a town read on me, and I thought that L4 was more widely town read than me in general.

I was bothered by L4 at the start, I didn't like her early posts as much. Whereas you've felt more natural and contributing to a way of making good pairings. Also, L4's kind of suspicious of me, so we'd make a bad pair, and I'm also a tad suspicious of people who are suspicious of me. Because I think I play scummy and I've had scum go after me before as an easy target.

Gentleman 7's statement about coming off as scummy and being an easy mislynch is ... easier to come from scum than town, although he seems honest enough. Regardless.

+1 Scum Points

I do want to explain later why I made the decision I did, but that's for another time.

Spoiler: On Gentleman 8 and His Catch-Up Post

Hello again, good citizens!

The volume of communication here is simply staggering, and I struggle to keep up, particularly while wearing this excellent and most efficacious mask, which, while handsome, leaves much to be desired for eye-holes.

I am entirely flexible with regard to a partner. I find most of the judgments discussed here premature. Either I am paired with a good and talented dancer, in which case I shall be delighted to waltz the night away, or I shall be paired with one who steps on toes and uses the wrong fork at dinner. In the latter case, I will be delighted to do the company a service and leave the dance with her. To wit, based on Gentleman 4's list,

Lady Lucky #7, will you dance with me?

This post strikes me as town in tone and in the object of his affections. Lady 7 is a solid choice, although as Gentleman 5 contests this post in 1507 I must admit that him immediately coming back and proposing has me a bit anxious. I think the same mindset comes from both town and scum, however. Further discussion with Gentleman 5 leads me to believe he made the decision somewhat rashly based off of my post about remaining Ladies and Gentlemen, which makes this post look somewhat worse, although I can still see it coming from town.

Spoiler: On clarifying the stance taken by Gentleman 3

Perhaps I phrased incorrectly; If you knew you would die before you made it to the end of the game, you would not try to find and match with scum?

Okay, I see where you're going now. I was operating under the assumption that nobody's going to let any of the AFK gentlemen near endgame, which would mean that yes, I would have no incentive to match with scum because everyone not yet matched would die regardless.

If that isn't true, it I guess is somewhat important for me to match with scum, but it's far more important to just identify which other unpaired gentleman is the towniest and match HIM with town. Technically pairing with scum increases the chances of this, but it's equally effective to pair whichever lady I think is scum with a gentleman who also isn't going to make it to endgame.

Certainly, the possibility of a currently unpaired scum lady living to endgame with a currently unpaired gentleman is not the biggest concern of mine right now.

I somewhat understand, but you understand yourself better than anyone else here.

Yeah, you're right. Though I can't say I'm an expert on how people read me. If I were, my scumgame would be a hell of a lot better than it is.

Right, so does it not follow to pick the partner who you've stated before you have little doubt would stick with you until the end?

Not directly, because getting walked out on isn't the only way to die-- if people don't townread L5 and they want her dead, it doesn't matter that she townreads me.

This post made me significantly reconsider my stance on him to the point of believing he's actually quite possibly town.

Gentleman 5 repeatedly makes posts like the following, looking for approval.

Spoiler:

Anyone else think theres confirmed scum in L8/L5? I do

I don't know if this makes him town or scum, at the moment I'd very much like to call him town for it - it's a mindset one who's played much mafia might adopt after a time, that is, constantly looking for support for lynches on the players one thinks are scum.

789 indicates Gentleman 5 thinks Lady 3 is likely town (and I'm quite possibly not). The following post extrapolates further to explain he likely thinks both of us are town.

Spoiler:

I was thinking of asking L3 out, but thats rude.

Rick Grimes is my bro, bros dont do that.

G6, I think your p-edit is a bad one.

Spoiler: On Why I Chose Lady 3

Several reasons:
First, her play style is attractive to me, and I think we'd have significant chemistry. There's a lot more I could say on this, but I won't because I doubt anyone really wants to listen to it.
Second, her approaches and mindset were generally pro-town, but she hadn't done anything that made her incapable of being scum. I wanted to (and still desire) to investigate and to get inside her. Brain. To get inside her brain.
Third, she'd shown a lot of potential and I wanted her to make it to the late-game, and not with someone who was scum. To expound, I feared a different partner might try and get her killed.
Fourth, I feared she might not be popular enough to get matched with someone who wouldn't get the both of them killed.
Fifth, I think she's unpopular enough that she can keep me from getting killed. (Nothing against you, darling.)
Sixth, in case someone wants to push her for mislynch, if I die, it prevents this.
There's more in me that wants to talk about this decision, but this is all I have for now.

Spoiler: Gentleman 5 has been unnecessarily hostile to Lady 8 for them to be scum buddies

Hi, I'm catching up. The site has been really bad lately so it's hard to load pages.

Without stating reasons at this time, I think either L8 or L5 shouldnt be dancing.

Do you actually have reasoning for this? I'd like to at least play First Dance before dying.

Then we have different opinions on the matter.

Personally, I feel outting townreads are a bad idea until dance time, but thats just me?

Wait, why is outing townreads a bad idea? I'm of the opinion that we should get a strong towncore--of course, this does depend on our ability to keep scum out. I don't really see the advantage of hiding them?

Again, I think its better not to out town reads until we dance, as we have to factor the pairs.

We can only scumhunt in ladies right now and theres the possibility that all 8 of them could be town.

Is this a town-slip? All of dance games have been 1:2 or 2:1 for scum ratios.

Gamblers Fallacy says this setup will most likely be 1:2 or 2:1

8 I don't remember.

You literally town-read me and the fact that you forgot makes me think you're town with limited knowledge. Scum wouldn't fuck up their reads this bad.

This is true, but youre not getting any townpoints for stating the obvious.

Those are my gentlemen reads, not lady reads.

I still think you're town but you're not active enough to be a good pair for me right now.

Assuming youre talking about L8, I just feel youre spiting me at this point.

Is this a town-slip? All of dance games have been 1:2 or 2:1 for scum ratios.

How would this be a townslip?

Lack of knowledge of setup?

Whats your point your trying to prove? That im town because of setup spec?

Whatever disregard correct play dance with the hottest girl.

Lady 8, will you dance with me?

You hate to see it.

Gentleman 5 would help with pushing my scum Reads but I’d have trouble trusting him at least in the beginning as he’s not my Lock Town where I can say with 100% confidence that Gentleman 3 is Town.
Me and Him can share are Reads and make stronger solving.

Hey FakeGod, am I allowed to retract my invite?

Whatever disregard correct play dance with the hottest girl.

Lady 8, will you dance with me?

The degree to which my head is in the same space as yours this game is remarkable.

I’ll laugh if g4 and l8 are scum together and g4 manipulated g6 away from town and to his partner.

(I dont endorse this or anything, just thought it was funny)

I want to ask you something further, Gentleman 5, but I can't put my finger on what it is. If you manage to think of it, I'd be very grateful.?

I dont want two out anything at this time, sorry.

The Lady 8 scum reads don't make sense to me.

I also don't think that forgiving Lady 6 just because she plays like she's got binoculars glued to her eyes is the best course of action either. Too scummy to be scum is rarely an argument, I think.

Ill go into it more if she ends up at the dance.

Tunnel Vision is usually a town issue. I take more issue with L3’s commanding than I do L6 at this time, but...

Actually, I dunno if L6 is scum.

^

L5 and L8 deserve to die before L6 imo.

I can dig this chicks vibe. Not sold on town, but Ill play.

I don't think Lady 8 should die. I think Lady 3-5 and G4 have at least 2 scum.

If I had to guess the last scum, it would be G1 or G8 although I would want it to be G6 because he was an ass earlier.

Nopenopenopenopenopenope. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. You lost me.

That said, the post above seems townie though, as I feel those reads are reactionary rather than actual reads imo.

I'm reading. I'm trying to commit to at least one catchup a day.

Whatever disregard correct play dance with the hottest girl.

Lady 8, will you dance with me?

I accept.

That was fast. In fact thats the first thing L8 mentions: making sure shes going to the next round.

G6: You mentioned it after you made the proposal but Id like to ask you again - do you think your pairing is T-T?

Lady 7 accepts not the first, but the second offer extended to her in 1855.

+1 Town Points

Dear Diary,

Today Gentleman 6 decided to throw all the work he'd done and all the favor he'd accumulated out the window by acting like a total and complete moron. There was nothing close to sense in what he did and I'm rapidly losing respect for his actions. I feel bad because I liked him before, I thought his process was good and we were headed towards a good game, but he absolutely refused to listen to reason, to attempt to work with people, and insisted on trying to fit a cylinder sideways into a round hole. I write this not because I want to embarrass or shame him, but because this will help me blow off some steam and perhaps after the game I can bring this up if he's feeling particularly open to learning about what went wrong.

Sincerely,
Gentleman 4
Page 77

Spoiler: Lady 2 makes a beautiful post going in-depth about her reads and such

@Lady 2

these were for you from earlier:

Lady 2, I would like to see your analysis of the current matching as well as your reads list, if possible. The more numbers you can attach to things, the more jubilant I become.

In addition, how comfortable are you in your scum game? If you could have paired with any of the gentlemen prior to them making the matches they have now, who would you have chosen? If your answer is Gentleman 2, please also include your second choice.

Sorry I missed those!

Current matching:
G2-L9 - Good, lean T/T
G4-L3 - Fairly good. I do read G4 Town. I am less confident in L3 but kind of like G6/L8 I don't mind seeing it because I think it will be a +utility pair, like I trust G4 to contribute to reading L3 usefully
G5/L4 - need to reread G5 in full, most of his posting has been in the last day or so and it's a lot and G6 (who I mostly trust) has a strong scumread that I need to evaluate. L4 feels fairly Town so there's that?
G6/L8 - this is a reasonable reason for L8 to be in the game. I approve of G6 not fully discussing his read of her at this juncture
G7/L7 - I'll be honest I was kind of hoping to be asked by G7 but water under the bridge. L7 I still read as Town. This is the only pairing where I'm hoping for the Lady to help read her partner for the game, buuuuut I'll admit I lean Town on G7 at the moment as well. Which is great! It kind of mitigates my disappointment, I hope the two of them do indeed find they dance well together.

Overall the players left without partners right now are:

G1 - Probably one of my better options as a partner at this point. Oddly vocal about Townreading me early. I don't want to get too paranoid about being pocketed, but not many players seem to have strong Townreads on me right now, probably besides him strongest Townread on me is from L4 and I feel like L4 and I have much more direct interaction? I'm open to pairing with him but in some ways I'd feel better about pairing with someone I had a strong Townread on and they were questioning me than the other way around? But that train has sailed, as they say, my strongest Townread gentlemen and even G7, who I was less sure of but interested in have already paired off.

G3 - I actually don't mind his concerns about endgame etc. If anything stuck out to me I think being vocally, openly concerned about pairing to make endgame and coherently explaining his thought process about who he expected to get left out is Townlean. Scum don't

want

to appear overly concerned about making endgame, I agree that 1515 feels good.
Perhaps I should update in favor of G3 being a partner I would prefer over G1. Certainly he's been quite active, also an important quality.

G8 - Deliberately (????) low content, low information value, asks L7, a popular and largely Townread Lady out of the blue. Untenable long-term, I don't know what to say. Even if he becomes high content, high value - it could happen, but it's a nagging worry that it's +utility for scum to pair a strong Lady and not give any information pre-dance if they can get away with it without consequences so??

L1 - Needs to post more, not a fan. Appreciate that she gave some reads, at least but between two holders of the slot there's a whole lot of nothing. Seems to be offering content now but in an unfocused way, not really getting anywhere. I don't want this to be a case similar to G8, except instead of no content there's a token effort at content that isn't highly committal.

L5 - Hard for me to parse and I find myself resisting going into it because she's breaking site rules regarding outside influence relating to talking in-thread about potential replacement of her slot.

I would go so far as to say that this issue requires Moderator intervention.

L6 - I don't know. She has lots of mostly reasonable words. High volume of scumreads, but they're not terrible? Most of them are decent, though I disagree heavily on L4 scumread. I won't be too disappointed to see her stay.

If I could have paired with any gentleman in the game prior to matches, excluding G2 (actually not sure if I would have been an optimal pairing for G2 but I'd have been open to it if he'd wanted it and the overall utility seemed decent), I would have wanted G6 or you, G4. G6 as a strong Townread and strong player, you basically for similar, though I guess emphasis on my very early Townread on your slot - I guess just because my first thought was in making what I would be most sure of as a T/T pair, including with someone I could see myself working with, someone active and contributing, too.

Right now, the order of my preferences for pairing myself among available gentlemen is G3>G1>>>G8

I ... don't know how comfortable I am in my scumgame. I've had periods of deep lack of confidence in my scumgame and periods of confidence, but I haven't played much Mafia very recently so I don't really know how I'd feel or react drawing scum right now to be honest. I often find playing scum stressful just at baseline.

Lady 5's posting on

Page 80

is remarkably pro-town.
Gentleman 5's 2136 isn't one that likely comes from town.
=====================================

Spoiler: Items I Would Like To Hold Other Players To In Case Something Changes

I thought l3s pop in about the g6/l8 showed some nice inquisitiveness. It kinda came out of nowhere iirc and it just felt like something she was chewing at. I liked it.

Lady 7 seems to town read Lady 3 at this point.

I was thinking of asking L3 out, but thats rude.

Rick Grimes is my bro, bros dont do that.

G6, I think your p-edit is a bad one.

Gentleman 5 indicates approval for my slot as well as Lady 3's.

[Gentleman 4]

Also without actually outing a name for who I am:

G4 comes from an era where I was known for having good reads but being easily mislynched because my ability to project town was in some certain way hampered.
He has personally seen me mislynched as town multiple times and has attempted to mislynch me as town when I went after him in the past.
Just in case you guys are inclined to townread him for going after the towniest player in the lobby, he's used to seeing me mislynched despite being townread.

You have me pegged as the wrong person. This is untrue.

[Gentleman 4]

No, I've been suspecting you all game.

I have a very full set of notes that I'd like to share, but I made the mistake of posting them in my partner PT before I posted them in the game thread and now I don't know if I can share them here based on rules about copy/pasting from PTs.

But you didn't vocalize it, did you? Why would you suddenly decide it's time to vocalize it when I suddenly start doing things I can be held accountable for?
It's hard to argue I'm scum for policy lynching someone being as obnoxious as G5 was. It's a lot easier to argue I'm scum for being wrong on G1.

But you're trying to avoid even having a G1 flip.

I don't care if Gentleman 1 flips. We can flip him first if it matters all that much to you, but I very much believe that if we do I won't get you lynched at all and then you'll just take scum to end game.

And no, I'm specifically trying NOT to vocalize too much suspicion because I've been suspicious of a lot of people -- people that i need to keep working with me.

[Gentleman 4]

It's true.

You're pretending otherwise because you know that if you accept being who you are you also have to accept the fact that you are literally KNOWN AS A PLAYER for making these kinds of town diaries as scum.

No, I'm not.

You very much have me pegged as the wrong person.

[Gentleman 4]

LOL

[Gentleman 4]

I'm not mathdino

[Gentleman 4]

You're not Mathdino because I can quote you running these kinds of town diaries as scum before and you don't want accountability for that.

No one else says things as fucking stupid to me as you've done this game.

No, I'm not mathdino because I'm not scum, I've never had a town diary as scum, I don't think I've been on the site as long as mathdino, I've never played with RadiantCowbells in a game in which he was mislynched as town. And I'm not going to go further because I think that would start outing who I am, even though I doubt you would still be able to guess it.

[Gentleman 4]

In fact, I think this is the first time I've had a diary on site ever. I might be wrong though. It's at least one of the first times.

[Gentleman 4]

G6: G5 is conf scum.
G5: No, your partner is scum.
G6: G5 is conf scum.
*Argues for many pages*
L5: Youre both town.

*YEARS LATER*

G6: G4 is confscum
G4: NoU
G6: G4 is confscum
*Argues for many pages*
L5: Youre both town.

I called him scum first.

[Gentleman 4]

You will leave if I leave?

[Gentleman 4]

If you don't leave I will never trust you again. Maybe that doesn't mean anything to you

[Gentleman 4]

If you guarantee you will step out in your next post I'll step out