Mini Normal 2107 (Game Over)

[Vorkuta]

*sighs*
Imma let someone who actually knows the rules comment on the sig-bets

[Saudade]

bawk bawk bawk

[Wimpy]

Which we've already demonstrated and you've only *handwaved* away

Where is this proof?
I haven’t seen anyone prove that wake only says that as scum. Show me and I’ll drop it

[Saudade]

Okay lets move on from Wimpy to Wake88


WAKE88 HELLO WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT WIMPY DEFENDING YOU LIKE THIS?
DO YOU THINK HES TOWN?
DO YOU THINK HES SCUM TRYING TO POCKET YOU?

DO YOU THINK AT ALL WAKE88??

[Vorkuta]

wake only says that as scum

Oh we've also moved the goalposts while we were at it.
My bad

[Wake1]

Antagonism will not help us.

I would ask for that to cease.

[Vorkuta]

Beetlejuice scum tell is beetlejuiced

[Saudade]

Antagonism will not help us.

I would ask for that to cease.

Answer the questions posed in your direction

[Saudade]

you can ignore, the last one, for sure.

[Wake1]

Antagonism will not help us.

I would ask for that to cease.

Answer the questions posed in your direction

I don't respond well to demands.

[Saudade]

Alright this has been productive

[Saudade]

time to go to my mason meeting be right back!

[Wimpy]

You've cherrypicked and found yourself a statistically irrelevant sample size

so it's bad for me but it's ok for saudade and profli to cherry pick? how does that work exactly?

wake only says that as scum

Oh we've also moved the goalposts while we were at it.
My bad

do you not read context?

i didn't move the goal posts. Elements did.

this don't mean jack shit if wake only says it as scum. you should be checking his game for when he's said it

This is where elements has introduced wake only does this as scum. He says I should be the one checking it but why? I am not the one making the argument that wake is scum.

You accuse me of cherry picking but that is basically what you just did in post 204.

[Elements]

you're the one involved in this argument not me

[Wimpy]

Let's play out the conversation in context shall we?

this don't mean jack shit if wake only says it as scum. you should be checking his game for when he's said it.

I haven’t seen anyone make the argument that he only makes that comment as scum.

I don’t need to check his games to know the statement is null regardless who says it.

The burden of proof is on whoever is bold enough to claim wake only says that as scum.

In post 187, Wimpy wrote:
The burden of proof is on

Which we've already demonstrated and you've only *handwaved* away

Which we've already demonstrated and you've only *handwaved* away

Where is this proof?
I haven’t seen anyone prove that wake only says that as scum. Show me and I’ll drop it

wake only says that as scum

Oh we've also moved the goalposts while we were at it.
My bad

So vork

Elements brought up wake only doing it as scum
I said nobody made that claim that he only does as scum. If somebody wants to make that claim, they have to prove it
You said somebody already has proved it
I asked where
you then accuse me of moving the goal posts.

You are the one who interjected yourself into the conversation between myself and elements and then you try to twist my words.

I didn't move any goal posts as you claim. I haven't cherry picked anything either.

All I am doing is trying to show what I have already said. The statement is null. I don't know why people want to argue about it. If people want to policy lynch wake for his opinion, that's fine go right ahead but don't pretend that it is alignment indicative because it isn't.

[Wimpy]

you're the one involved in this argument not me

but i'm not though. I have never once said wake is scum for his entry

[Wimpy]

this don't mean jack shit if wake only says it as scum. you should be checking his game for when he's said it.

and you did put yourself into that argument when you said this.

[Vorkuta]

I need a sanity check. Am I the insane one here? Anyway-

but it's ok for saudade and profli to cherry pick?

To establish the ground rules- by cherry pick I mean the statistical anomaly you pulled out in post #166 to somehow justify your point.
THEY have not pulled out any obscure/niche/hidden sample points to support their (widely accepted, commonplace, statistically significant... etc.) hypotheses/arguments.
Feel free to redirect me where they have, or consider changing your wording.

do you not read context?

It's been evidenced that you don't, so let's stop projecting shall we?

i didn't move the goal posts

If you introduce bullshit to back up your point, it's only fair that we get to fling the same bullshit back at you.
Your crappy cherrypick argument is only VALID IF: you can provide the same cherrypick FOR *elements's quote here*

He says I should be the one checking it but why? I am not the one making the argument that wake is scum.

Elly has said that there exists a game where scum!wake does it. I don't even give a shit if he doesn't link it because wake would object loudly if elements is lying.
Wake is not Havo (to the best of my knowledge).
THUS your argument is valid, if you can find (cherrypick) a game where WAKE HIMSELF pulls this as town.
THEN and only then, can you conclude that "wake doing it is NULL"

i didn't move the goal posts

You're trying to get us to prove a negative.
My bad. That's worse than moving the goal posts.

I don't know why people want to argue about it.

because
-We dislike the premises of your logic
-We dislike the validity of your logic
-Wake should be able to defend himself- why are you interjecting/white-knighting on his behalf?
-It's a solid case, and you're derailing it which is anti-town (inb4 self-voting is antitown hurrdurr)

[Wimpy]

So here is where I stand in a nut shell and I will take a break. I really play this game to have fun, not argue and I feel like people are picking fights with me for trying to keep town on the right track.

My opinions

1. Wake's statement is null. We can't possibly tell wake's alignment is by him making it.
2. Just cause Saudade and Profli have seen scum do this in other games, doesn't mean everyone who does it is automatically scum
3. Saudade and profli both look bad for hard pushing something null, but given profli has two games where somebody as town did something similar and he is arguing wake is scum, makes me think profli is probably scum
4. Saudae - you can claim god of the universe, this doesn't mean that you actually are. Your mason claim doesn't do anything for me. I don't typically believe claims at face value. I need to look at the play and right now i don't see anything that demonstrates you as clear town
5. Vork - I have him as a scum lean. He seems like he wants to start arguments with me. He is also very hypocritical in his arguments. accusing me of stuff but not others who have done the same thing. Accusing me of cherry picking when his cherry picking argument is actually him cherry picking
6. Elements - I don't really like how he added in something new "wake only saying this as scum" but expects me to verify that. I actually did "search" wake's games and besides an ongoing one I can't really find an example of him making that statement. I use "search" because all I did was click his posts and type the word hammer. That is about as far as I am willing to go because to me the statement is telling of anyone's alignment

My lynch pool in order is

Profli, vork, elements, saudae

I actually think saudade is probably town and profli piled on in an attempt to buddy.

I won't be arguing anymore. It really fucks with my anxiety and makes the game not fun and I play to have fun.

It's lunch time and I have some work to do this afternoon so i will use this as a way to cool down.

Take care guys

[profii]

For those playing at home, Here are the two games where town player says the same thing as wake,

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 3#p9922853
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 2#p9854602

I really need to hear a GOOD explanation from profli as to why he is so quick to scum read wake for it when he has seen town do it twice and thus making it null as alidade and myself have pointed out.

Wow

[Wimpy]

To establish the ground rules- by cherry pick I mean the statistical anomaly you pulled out in post #166 to somehow justify your point.

null to me means something that can be done by both alignments. So where did I go wrong? If we disagree with the word null, that is fine.

but real talk. Why not ask Saudae and Profli to provide links to the games where scum did it? Why are you just taking their word for it?

[Wimpy]

It's been evidenced that you don't, so let's stop projecting shall we?

it has? where have I taken things out of context?

If you introduce bullshit to back up your point, it's only fair that we get to fling the same bullshit back at you.

1. can you please stop cursing at me?
2. somebody else introduced it. I was responding to them. Elements was the one mentioning wake only doing it as scum, i didn't. Am I not allowed to ask him to provide proof?

[Looker]

Zote gets it

Of course I do. I am the Great Intelligent Zote the Mighty after all.

I appreciate the readability and brevity of your posts. Even with the third-person referencing, your stances are easy to understand.

Again, self hammering is literally against the rules.

Again, Day 1 sucks because I have nothing to actually work with, so, yeah, I'm willing to hammer at L-1 Day 1.

• I agree
• I agree, but I wouldn't blindly hammer. I don't feel the majority's always right, so, a group of players getting someone to L-1 wouldn't automatically require me to hammer

---

I am very comfortable with my Saudade vote.

[profii]

Why are you providing links to the games I participated in when someone town did it and not presenting a balanced view of the games where scum did it

I feel like you are getting frustrated rather than bening purposely shady but that’s a bit nawty

I think the game I’m thinking of might have even been with me and Saudade in ha ha

[profii]

If self hammering is against the rules do you have a problem with scum self hammering at L-1 to limit discussion and hinder town - that’s pro-scum and if they didn’t do it would break the play to your win con rule

That underlying point is people are saying “rules are rules” but the rules conflict each other so let’s not get bogged down in that