Micro 900: Autumnal Mafia (Game Complete)

[Iconeum]

also

[Iconeum]

[Iconeum]

It's also not a Logical Fallacy (and suggesting it is is Argument Ad Hominem, which is)

[Iconeum]

menal at L-1 now or ?

[Iconeum]

VLA weekend

starts in a couple hours btw

[Iconeum]

when i get back deadline is gonna be very close, so i'd like to be pretty damn sure who we should lynch today before the weekend

[Iconeum]

Oh shit it's Friday i forgot lmao

yeah it's hard keeping track of time with these short weeks here in Belgium

[Iconeum]

'we vibing hard'

[Iconeum]

i probably am but i'm doing something of a vote count?

[Iconeum]

VOTE: Menal

L-1

[Iconeum]

Now, my dad’s visiting me, so I’m not going to be around like I would be/how I’d like to be, but I also haven’t even mislynched in D1 before as town and I’m not intending to start today especially when the grounds for my wagon are something as weak as me posting intent and then not hammering.

I’m gonna VOTE: icon because while I’ve been going back and forth on this, I don’t believe that he believed that me not hammering is enough of a reason to call me scum

like have you actually read everything leading up to my vote on you?

[Iconeum]

i don't think ur scum for not hammering

[Iconeum]

i think ur scum for posting intent, threatening with a deadline, having no interest in sorting aldus, not hammering after your deadline despite not coming away with additional information for your PoE, and for not engaging with me when I asked about your reads. Not to mention you pushed Wimpy without the intention of sorting there.

[Iconeum]

If I know there are 6 people other than myself who are town and I have 6 TRs then by default I’m SRing the remaining 2.

who were your 2 scumreads at that time again?

Wimpy slot and aldus then, right?

[Iconeum]

and also, claim

[Iconeum]

i don't think ur scum for not hammering

The greater part of your argument recently has been all about my not hammering implying scum!me not wanting to be on the wrong side of a town flip

please don't cherry pick

[Iconeum]

I pushed winpy while sorting there

[Iconeum]

do you really want me to break that down into a case?

[Iconeum]

actually, i'll do both

sure

[Iconeum]

in the meanwhile you can go ahead and claim

[Iconeum]

just claim already, there doesn't need to be intent i don't what's up with that this game

like since when is it a rule that there has to be intent before a claim?

several players have declared VLA for the weekend, on monday deadline will be real close. It's literally in the best interest for teh game that you claim. But I don't expect you to have best interest for town at this point.

[Iconeum]

good job you managed to quote my ISO

[Iconeum]

39 40 initial callout
43 the vote

45 simple defence from Wimpy

49 is where you ask how serious the vote is

53 and 55 are explanations both serious and RVS'y from Wimpy

You decide that Wimpy calling something violating site rules comes from scum and even call Wimpy mislynch bait because you know this in 58

68 you actually are questioning Wimpy

Over the course of several posts, there's a 1v1 between Wimpy and Datisi, where Menal keeps doubting Datisi but ends up thinking WImpy is the scum here? Doesn't make sense.

90 is still Wimpy being towny trying to be helpfull

But 91 is where the bad part starts.
95 on out you have clearly already made up your mind about nothing at all.

Wimpy even calls you out on this in 99 and begins full OMGUS mode in 101

Even in 108 you repeat that the foundation of your scumread there is basicly RVS entry into the game.

-----

Everything, pages upon pages upon pages of crap you spit out against Wimpy was not you sorting. It was a crappy push, leaving absolutely no room or opportunity for Wimpy to engage with you and make you reconsider. Yeah it was a push in bad faith.

[Iconeum]

No, but mildly irritated that I’ve woken up to an L-1 wagon that is 100% scum motivated

4 players on your wagon in a 9 player game calling you scum

how is that 100% scum motivated

Also, if I'm the 4th vote on the wagon, and you think I'm scum, who am I scum with? Because it has to be in the first 3 votes if you want it to be scum motivated.

[Iconeum]

So your scumteam is now in

(Wicked/Ali/Luca/Ico)

You call the 4 votes on you 100% scum motivated

I'm scum according to you

So with Wicked(???), Ali or Luca?

[Iconeum]

Icon didn't you say in 695 that you can see why Mena was SRing Wimpy? And it wasn't just about the entrance?

And I didn't scumread Menal at that time.

Also, I could see the case yes. But that case was made AFTER he already made up his mind as demonstrated in my case here.

[Iconeum]

No, but mildly irritated that I’ve woken up to an L-1 wagon that is 100% scum motivated

4 players on your wagon in a 9 player game calling you scum

how is that 100% scum motivated

Also, if I'm the 4th vote on the wagon, and you think I'm scum, who am I scum with? Because it has to be in the first 3 votes if you want it to be scum motivated.

Scum motivated isn’t necessarily who first voted it’s about how much scum is on it + who’s pushed it

And for what reasons they’ve pushed it

I jumped on, I didn't push it to L-2 before voting

[Iconeum]

I even expressed my concern about wicked being on it

[Iconeum]

So who pushed your wagon?

[Iconeum]

Lmaoooo I'm sorry I had to

Mena flips town stop this

ARE YOU BLIND

why are you townreading menal exactly?

[Iconeum]

So what happened with there being LOADS of AI things in Mena's iso? If you thought he was town despite all that before then this change seems weird

No, you know what's weird? Menal's entire ISO.

His push on Wimpy. His refusal to discuss any other slot other then you. His attempted and continuous pocketing towards you.
His entire play wrt the intent.

How do you townread

any

of that ?

[Iconeum]

@Datisi who's the scumteam according to you rn?

[Iconeum]

Pedit: oh joy yeah ask me that.

well yeah

town clearly isn't alligned here

and there's a big problem this game wrt wagons

wicked was widely scumread but we couldn't even manage an L-1
Aldus got to L-1 but refused to claim and is now town because of that?

Menal at L-1 but you clearly disagree with that

One of us is wrong here

[Iconeum]

Especially given the lack of daytalk which I keep forgetting is a thing

[Iconeum]

I don’t think your progression makes sense icon

I think you’re forced to walk back your early on analysis of my case on wimpy in order to justify your arguments here

I don't think your progression on me makes sense either.

You are using scum motivated wagon as argument but I was the 4th vote and actually pretty reluctant to go there. And you are now skipping past my earlier questioning you on that?

[Iconeum]

Do you still wanna go wicked?

I'm fairly sure I have at least 1 scum in (Wicked/Menal)

so yes

[Iconeum]

dude i was all in favour of a wicked lynch days ago

you derailed it yourself

[Iconeum]

what is this game even

[Iconeum]

i'm literally fine with wichever in these 2

VOTE: Wicked

[Iconeum]

@Menal, you argumented that your wagon is scum motivated and I asked you to go look at who actually pushed your wagon. Because it wasn't me. So I don't understand how you come to Scumconeum here.

[Iconeum]

@Menal

if ur town here

go back and reread like the 3 or 4 pages of the wagon building

talk to me after that with an open mind okay?

[Iconeum]

@Menal, you argumented that your wagon is scum motivated and I asked you to go look at who actually pushed your wagon. Because it wasn't me. So I don't understand how you come to Scumconeum here.

You did push my wagon! You hammered the point over and over again that the fact that I didn’t follow through on my intent to hammer was soemthing more likely to come from scum!me! You actively tried to persuade people of this!

yeah that's true

hmm

[Iconeum]

i'm so hot for datisi right now

[Iconeum]

wait did i say that out loud?

[Iconeum]

crap i'm doing the same thing to menal that he did to wimpy :s

[Iconeum]

i was definitely wary about voting him, mostly because of wicked vote. Ali showed me that wicked vote parked there for a while so it could make sense for a wicked/Menal scumteam.

[Iconeum]

@menal

if you are still so sure your wagon was scum motivated where does that leave you on Ali?

[Iconeum]

i was definitely wary about voting him, mostly because of wicked vote. Ali showed me that wicked vote parked there for a while

so it could make sense for a wicked/Menal scumteam.

excuse me what?

what?

[Iconeum]

ok attempt to show you my thinking:

menal scum, but wicked also scum

wicked was voting menal, which made me reluctant to vote menal because D1 bussing is ehhhh

ali showed me that wicked voted there a good while ago, which means the vote could just be stuck there and it's not actually a bus because wicked could believe menal wasn't getting run up

it would allow for them to be a team and that gave me some ease of mind

make sense?

[Iconeum]

and menal has been pretty fencesitty on wicked slot throughout the game IIRC

[Iconeum]

And then wicked comes along and hardpushes his partner again

yes makes perfect sense

y not?

[Iconeum]

at a time that menal is being townread/not even close to being in danger of a lynch it's literally the perfect time to distance yourself

[Iconeum]

*when you are in danger of being lynched yourself, that is

[Iconeum]

Menal got run up to L-1 because of that in like a few hours what the fuck are you on about

wicked couldn't know that was gonna be a thing back then

back then, it was wicked on the chopping block or close to it. Distancing yourself from your partner, whom at that time was far from any kind of danger, isn't the extraordinary.

[Iconeum]

so you just wanna keep your scumread on me while refusing to engage with me over the why?

fine

[Iconeum]

VOTE: menal

eat rope

[Iconeum]

I don’t like that he’s gone from here to “yeah mena/wicked makes sense” in all of about 2 seconds

this is from pre-vote on you tho

[Iconeum]

keep trying

[Iconeum]

Like you’re not even trying to engage with me?

excuse me?

you mean the exact opposite right?
that i'm being completely ignored by you when trying to engage?

[Iconeum]

@menal

if you are still so sure your wagon was scum motivated where does that leave you on Ali?

I’m still equivocating on whether alim is newb!town or newb!scum

They make the most sense with you!scum or pops!scum imo

how are you even able to vote alongside me if ur town?

it makes no sense

You have a PoE scumread on Aldus, and I'm scum for the push on you. But you simply vote together with me on Wicked?

Heh.

[Iconeum]

Where am I ignoring you

I've asked you several times throughout the game that you simply ignored. I even asked you to confirm if you read any of that, and you did.
I had to push you into answering the 'scumlead' wagon on you.

[Iconeum]

I still think the push on me comes from scum, at least one possibly both

If you’re not scum the main instigator was wicked

how the hell am i scum with wicked here?

[Iconeum]

Who has also been making bad claims, for instance about my play here being similar to C9++

?

[Iconeum]

I still think the push on me comes from scum, at least one possibly both

If you’re not scum the main instigator was wicked

how the hell am i scum with wicked here?

For christsake IF YOU’RE NOT SCUM

my bad

[Iconeum]

Who has also been making bad claims, for instance about my play here being similar to C9++

oh you mean wicked, ok

[Iconeum]

fun game

[Iconeum]

still in VLA i'll be here tomorrow to play

no lynch until then plz

[Iconeum]

Also, we all agree pops dies today yes? Yes? Good.

well we ain't lynching wicked today that's for sure

[Iconeum]

Icon if deadline pressure makes us lynch Mena because you refused to change ypur vote here and he flips Town i am personally coming for your head tomorrow

@Icon it wasn't deadline but this is still valid

i saw you were online

Icon you better have a DAMN GOOD explanation for this shit

he deserved to die

at least i don't have to look at that slot anymore this game


backup role in a 9p game?

[Iconeum]

crap i'm doing the same thing to menal that he did to wimpy :s

tick tock Icon i'll be here tomorrow too bb don't worry

if i reread him now i'd lynch him all over again

like seriously

[Iconeum]

it was a solid lynch

you can turn and kick as much as you like with a townread on him

he was incredibly scummy for a lot of reasons that were all laid out

[Iconeum]

but granted your read proved a lot more accurate

[Iconeum]

it was a solid lynch

it's gonna be the lynch that loses us the game but ok

no day one lynch (and a VT on top of that) should cost town the game, ever

[Iconeum]

i'll read the rest of your ranting over the lynch tomorrow, after that we can focus on solving this game

[Iconeum]

Everyone: VOTE: Menalque
I thought being the universal SR and being ignored was frustrating. But holy shit, being the universal TR and

still

being ignored is a special type of hell.

I wasnt ignoring you. I was actively trying to understand why you TR Menalque when Pops hammered out of nowhere.

Datisi and Icon are still probably Town. I'm most likely going to vote for Pops today. I wish Menalque took more time to case Wicked while he was alive as I'm having a hard time reading that slot now; most of his content has been meh, but the case was good and I maintain that despite the flip.

emps needs considering.

@Icon and Datisi

, what are your current feelings about this slot?

I remain ambivalent about Alim. Pops/Alim team could make sense, though.

I thought emps was townish Day 1 and nothing changed. I want him to be here more then he currently is though.

ftr it's hard to want to put effort into casing iconeum over jester when I think that might be the team exactly

how do you think wicked is scum with me exactly?

[Iconeum]

also

[Iconeum]

actual footage of icon reading drunkpops

[Iconeum]

**DISCLAIMER**

that wasn't actual footage i just like to type that

[Iconeum]

i could give you a PoE right now but i don't have strong scumreads atm

[Iconeum]

currently rereading

[Iconeum]

Iconeum ar eyou caught up on the thread
pedit: you were town last game i played with you so you have to be scum here actually, games i wasn't in don't matter

i'm all caught up

also you were in AvP yes?

i thought jingle said you were scum in avp i never saw the postgame post

it'd be such a hassle to find it i bet jingle talked a lot post game

i did think it was weird that you didn't help mislynch chennis

i have opened notepad
it is 3:15 am
i had like 3 shots
i am thinking about autumnal mafia i was in the ladies room thinking about it and i decided to post about it before i go t sleep
here are the choices
ok
1. post vote: pops
don't read the rest of the notepad
read the rest of the notepad d3 ON D3 DAYSTART
i am 110% ok with that
do that
feel good
i will love you
because the messed up part of mafia is dead townies' input vanishy
2. read this post now read it AGAIN d3
even if you already know what's in it
omg
that sounds like work
i agree
go do option 1
it's like 13 keystrokes
but if you don't do 13 keystrokes ooption
which i think is reasonable
for me to ask
liek i replaced into your game
for a dude who fucking picked his username to be WIMPY
you can do 13 keystrokes
ok
option 1 should be ok
ok
those are the two options
ok

Spoiler: option 2

are you reading
you should be option 2
if you are reading
are you option 2
gtfo if you are not option 2
ok
are you optoin 2?
ok
you can stay
did you not decide to literally read this post 2ice
like acutally
2ice
not my other posts
i maybe make later this day
also
not that burdensome
literally this post 2ice
you have to be option 1
to eep reading
i will use spoiler tag
let me use up arrow and add that part
but
thats the rules
i am asking for
ok
because like
mislycnh and listen versus mislycnh and zzzzzzzz
gets to skewed
my goal is to fix
ok
ok
this my sort for after my mislycnh
also i am not like precluding that maybe i dont get 54 hour hammered? but I am kinda leaning that expectation after end of day 1
so like
this is my sort
1. most town - datisi- like menalque said she has to mislynch - multiple- slots to burn her town equity
mislynching me (i assume as of writing this notepad she is alive to ensure my mislynch, prolly luca died or maybe humorous third option)
mislycnhing me on its own fails to burn like even half her town equity
dont mislycnh her
if she is somehow scum
shake her hand
and buy her
onion rings
not an outright burger
too ironic
onion rnigs
ar ok though
2. 2nd most tonw
luca blight
he says what you thought
before you thought it
even when
hes like
pops lolhammered menalque
and menalque twilight posted townie shit
hes like
i am upset pops lolhammered agaisnt consensus building and solving
when he could have been like
rules based code of hammurabi punishment
for pops
rarw
did you read
what julius caser wrote inh the documents of punishment
and he left it open
because he is town
datisi didnt really leave itopen
because her heart is fire
they are different reasons
still dont lynch him
his heart was pure d1
3. 3rd most town alimdia
his thought process
is sometimes wtf is hre
i dont follow
did you drink the water
even though it was tingedpink
didnt you know
to be smart and not do that
but look
alimdia pushed every slot in the whole game almot
with serio
he cant be scum
he has no purppose
someone told me that when i was scum admittedly and i giggled buty i think i had pushed like 5/9 ppl and alimdia has pushed lik 7/9
and at some point its like
who the heck is your partner
and none of his pushes felt fake
they all felt like
"at this moment this is who you wnat to die"
which doesn't preclude someone from being scum
untlil it is 8 ppl
is it literally 8 ok i didnt go back andcount
but like
all his pushes i felt like he would literally make that person die
if he is scum go shake his hand late
ok
4th most town
Alduskkel
Ok
So like this one is
menalque was alll
Alduskkel is town
that's why i didn't hamer
part of this is
it's super fun if we lose and i get to say "alduskkel is scum and also you misread me lololol"
but
part of this is
I half agree
and menalque full agrees
so alduskkel is mostly town
and the interpretation me and iconeum got is kind of, ths interaction makes alduskel scummmy and menalque even scummier even independentier
and menalque flipped town
so let's pass here
he made some other cdheery sunny posts too so
hug friends and sing kum buy yah
maybe he eats us
who knows
5th most town
wicked jestr
menalque wagon viability
didnt look good
after his case
it went
KPOOM
it loked rly good then
remember i was vote on wagon and i said i wont vote this
menalque claimed at l-2 which no one could forsee which cause my vote but jerstirkibry could NOT FORSEE THAT HE WENT FOR HARD TARGET
i and alimdia were easier target
he went for hard target
because he is a townie brownie
which chocolate
and macodemia
jester will you mine macodemia with me
anyway
this is at 5th
maybe it should be 4th
but 5th or higher
win game make me proud
he is not oppppportunism
i am still hrm at him not having reads but like
its possible
and maybe he had those stong if-then-else opinionsi i referenced but didnt care to state them cause they are contingent
rank 6th
iconeum
dragon!
i love draong
but
here's the thing
all of draongs post
he amde statements that were hurtful towards menalque
that were strong
and reasonable
and logic
and vibrant
BUT
i did not know that iconeum believed them in its dragon heart
and it could not state them in a way that made me believe that
urk iconeum do you really prefer the pronoun it i don't like to use a pronoun that feels subhuman i like to think of you as either human or superhuman
anyway
in AvP he cased chennis and very similarly all the reason stood on their own but form the diction and tone i didn'[t necessarily believe that Iconeum believe the points in its dragon heart
and in that game chennis flipped town
so I think that similarly may mean he is scum in this game like he was in that game

this is my fitrst d2 post
it is 342 am i am gonna go to sleep i will copypast this when i wake up tomorrow
pls win game i hope my reads are good and you sheep them enoughish and prs help us
dont look to books and let your mind free to think
i like to quote my math professors beautifrul words sometimes
gnight

can soberpops explain to me how you got to this:

'i was town prev game, so i must be scum here'

-> i refuted this, because i was scum that game

then you went 'huh i did think it was weird

that I

didn't

help the mislynch on Chennisden'

in that game

into the second quote here 'in AvP

he cased chennis and very similarly all the reason stood on their own but form the diction and tone i didn'[t necessarily believe that Iconeum believe the points in its dragon heart
and in that game chennis flipped town

Are you stuck and are you looking for reasons to justify a vote on me?

[Iconeum]

@sober/drunkpops

if you truly believe what you are writing about me not 'believing the points i brought up on menal'

why did you hammer a wagon that I pushed dishonestly according to you?

there were days left

you could have defended menal slot from my 'dishonest push'?

you know, together with your top top top townread datisi?

[Iconeum]

how exactly is hammering a wagon against your top townread but alongside someone you are scumreading helping you win the game

[Iconeum]

ftr it's hard to want to put effort into casing iconeum over jester when I think that might be the team exactly

You're better off pushing Wicked then as I wouldn't agree to an Icon lynch today.

i'd love to see pops casing wicked

[Iconeum]

i could give you a PoE right now but i don't have strong scumreads atm

Btw this would be good i guess

icon
wicked
luca
datisi
emps
alim
pops

it's probably a pretty spicey list according to you but it's not just thrown together

discuss

[Iconeum]

in my list the trio of emps/alim/datisi are subject to rotation within those 3

the rest is pretty locked atm

[Iconeum]

'im confused about your stubborn tr in menal

in hindsight you were obviously correct but i don't know how you could defend him on D1 after all that happened

[Iconeum]

Like was Mena's behaviour wrong? Probably. But this isn't a game of "lynch the biggest jackass in the room".

if you think this was the reason we lynched menal, you haven't been reading

you actually think it was a policy lynch?

[Iconeum]

because if you want me to defend my reasons for the menal lynch, i will

[Iconeum]

and it sure as hell wasn't as stupid as 'zomg we need to policy lynch this behaviour'

[Iconeum]

how about the entirety of the aldu-wagon intent stuff?

[Iconeum]

you can quote that all you want we can talk about it later

first i want you to make up your mind about me so we can continue

[Iconeum]

can we agree that i'll answer that after pops has made the case on why i'm scum with wicked?

[Iconeum]

pops goes today yes

[Iconeum]

who's opposed to pops lynch and why?

[Iconeum]

huh

[Iconeum]

well you were the one who brought up on D1 that a lynch felt like it was too easy for you

what do you think here?

[Iconeum]

okay

i'm just waiting for emps to do something and pops to come in and explain the wicked thing

don't really have much else to say rn

[Iconeum]

drunkpops wall was fun to read

[Iconeum]

other then that, i already pointed out what interested me about the part about myself

[Iconeum]

what do you make of it, alim?

[Iconeum]

Pops your its ico plus wicked case plz

[Iconeum]

Why did you think we were scum and what changed?

[Iconeum]

If me being scuntowncases wicked how did you get to asxunteam there in the first place

[Iconeum]

Also autumnnn

[Iconeum]

I don't hunt preflip assocs. I'm trying out the notion for the first time today, because for the first time in memorable history I'm looking at 5p LyLo. But it's not my style, I like to find independently scummy people. Going into day2 Iconeum and wickedjestr were the two scummiest people. So when Datisi says "can you scumcase Iconeum over wicked for me" I'm kind of like meh they could both be right.

Looking at the associations yesterday, though, a wicked/Iconeum team indeed doesn't look great. Wicked was really poorly positioned when he made the case on Menalque, and Iconeum jumped onboard with it as a right hand man, when Iconeum was doing pretty well at that time. It's very high risk if the Menalque mislynch is successful and later becomes perceived as scum motivated, because it contaminated Iconeum alongside wicked's weak slot, when wicked's positioning at that time would counsel for discarding wicked and getting Iconeum a solo win. It's not even necessary to be on the Menalque wagon for wicked to recover on his own in that scenario, it's defensible to say "I don't think it's Menalque but I think wicked's thought process was townie". Indeed, I made my own variant of that statement, not wanting to lynch (cough or out the role of) Menalque until later in spite of the post improving my opinion of wicked.


I want to point out that Iconeum is not even a caricature of town motivated questioning right now, though. Why does town!Iconeum give a rat's tail about my thought process for a Iconeum/wicked team. town!Iconeum ostensibly thinks I'm 85%+ to flip red given that he hasn't suggested today should be a serious discussion on whether to lynch me. Therefore when I flip red, there's only one mafia left, and Iconeum and wicked can only be scum together if Plum is also scum.
Does he want to hear my thought process so he can defeat it? like, why? why does he

care

?
Datisi asking why I left out emps was a town motivated question, a red-carded player could have trouble answering that question in a way that doesn't give away whether emps is or isn't a partner.
WHY IS ICONEUM DISMISSING THE IDEA OF NOT LYNCHING ME TODAY, BUT ALSO ASKING ME QUESTIONS THAT ARE IRRELEVANT IF I'M MAFIA?

Who's acting in bad faith here huh? Did you notice i'm not voting for you? I still want your reasons for putting wicked in a scumteam with me when you did it. You can talk all about how you think wicked/ico does NOT make sense now, but you made a clear and cut case that you DID think so earlier.
Why do I care so much about that? Because I wanna try and win this game. I don't know who your partner is. Hell, I don't even know ur scum.

The reason I talked to Datisi about how easy your wagon seems to be going is extremely relevant.

well you were the one who brought up on D1 that a lynch felt like it was too easy for you

what do you think here?

this is the scummiest post in the game thread

why tho? Datisi protested yesterday about how easy a wagon seemed to be going (while it actually wasn't), and it looks like we have the same thing here yet she is fine with it? I wanted to know her thoughts on this. Can you tell me what's scummy about this post?

‘Aimless’ is exactly what I’d expect from newbscum tbh.

The only other player I’d consider lynching today is Wicked.

I don't think Wicked is scum.
I wish he didn't have 5% as many posts as Datisi, more information would be great.
His positioning this game so far doesn't really put him as scum.

You literally just turned your read on Wicked 180° around when you took a lot of heat and were being questioned on explaining the wicked read.

VOTE: pops

[Iconeum]

i strongly advise not pushing alim today

[Iconeum]

i think ur misinterpreting my second question 'who's against pops lynch'

[Iconeum]

i have colours disable in my browser

[Iconeum]

i think ur misinterpreting my second question 'who's against pops lynch'

oh you didn't even want to discuss it? my bad. Go back to bragging about not voting me mr. "undecided about my alignment"

the fact i bothered to post that suggests otherwise, no?

[Iconeum]

like

you think i posted that with a tone of 'is anyone against pops lynch? no? good let's go'

while i actually was genuinly interested if there's actual opposition to your potential lynch

which is kinda important

[Iconeum]

i don't even know what gaslighting means

[Iconeum]

i don't know what ur talking about here tho

so what exactly am i doing according to you?

[Iconeum]

you acted very conclusory about my being lynched today

then you switched to "i have never been conclusory about pops' lynch today i am trying to sort her by asking super relevant questions like why does she believe a scumteam I know can't exist exist out of the 200 things in her iso that's what I ask about"

now you've cast a vote, which is conclusory about my lynch today

but actually no more conclusory than you've already been

why are you focusing on me being 'conclusory' about you, when pretty much every single player is doing that?

[Iconeum]

i changed my mind on wicked because it makes no sense to TR me right now and it made no reason to scumcase Menalque at the timing he did

Also none of his posts actually suck besides the first few and I think we're all confbiased

he sounds like he's sorting the game in later posts

logical conclusion

that you arrived to after taking heat for scumreading wicked

[Iconeum]

middle paragraph of that post

also iconeum was on wicked wagon and I don't see it as a bus

why was it possible at daystart but not now?

[Iconeum]

I didn't think about associatives at all

ftr it's hard to want to put effort into casing iconeum over jester when I think that might be the team exactly

your iso disagrees with you

[Iconeum]

pops you said before you liked my push on menal, but that you detract town points on my slot 'because i wasn't hunting in pairs'

and now you say you don't wanna focus on pairs because you dislike preflip asso

double standards much?

[Iconeum]

pops seriously

you attempted to discredit me by saying i was town prev game, so i must be scum here. That was incorrect.
then you said you thought it was weird how i didn't help mislynch chennisden that game
while after that you said you saw a lot of similarities between my 'bad faith' push on chennisden that game vs this game

then you said my push this game was good but 'holding back because you didn't hunt for pairs'
while you are now saying hunting for pairs pre flip is bad

and you expect any of this to stick?

[Iconeum]

i'm pushing YOU in bad faith?

glorious

[Iconeum]

can we put this at L-1 and get a claim please?

[Iconeum]

despite me saying 'we lynch pops today', which is non-binding, I wasn't in the conclusory camp at that time. My posts wrt you should have made that pretty clear.
I'm now firmly in the conclusory camp, fueled by the way you continously kept dodging and trying to crawl away from under the unpleasant questions coming to you.

It's also pretty obvious that despite me refuting most of your points towards me on previous days, you kept coming up with new or twisted reasons for scumreading me

such as i've just layed out

[Iconeum]

that was

L-1

yes

[Iconeum]

KIRBY!!!!

[Iconeum]

Wicked is a friendly neighbour

[Iconeum]

I'm surprised scum didn't pick up on my sudden town read of that slot

[Iconeum]

not sure about that crumb but def sure about FN

[Iconeum]

which leaves us with a very interesting situation lol

[Iconeum]

How is that a crumb?

i don't see it, but it's literally confirmed through night action

[Iconeum]

Confirmed for you.

are you implying there's a possible scenario where someone fake claims FN with 2 targets that are still alive in 9p game?

[Iconeum]

i'll be here tomorrow to play

[Iconeum]

i'm VT

[Iconeum]

yeah luca is the tracker and emps committed suicide by claiming a PR :s

[Iconeum]

pretty good stuff tho

didn't think dats would be scum this game tho

[Iconeum]

oh shitt i was extremely confident you were the tracker from your D2 post lol

[Iconeum]

There are reasons why I'd like to leave Icon until Tomorrow. I don't know for sure he's Town, but right now I think he is.

I'm willing to consider Alim if you want to talk about that slot instead.

this one

[Iconeum]

Wait, so no-one is claiming Tracker?

that makes sense if you are Informed town

[Iconeum]

it's literally Datisi/emps

don't ask me how

it's exactly PoE

[Iconeum]

unless Luca is faking his claim

but that claim makes zero sense coming from scum so

[Iconeum]

that makes sense now

[Iconeum]

backup tracker
informed
FN
cop

someone in here is lying because i don't believe there's gonna be 4 town PR in a 9 p game

[Iconeum]

meant to type doc instead of cop

[Iconeum]

jezus this doesn't make sense

if the doc claim is fake then town only has

backup tracker
FN
informed town that backup is real?

wtf

[Iconeum]

datisi why did you insist on going last as a VT?

[Iconeum]

this is strictly a LOT weaker then masons

[Iconeum]

If no-one else is claiming Tracker then that pretty much makes me conftown as well, because there would be no other function for the Backup-Tracker. It would be entirely useless without my role.

i'm doubting that

backup tracker flip makes scum wifom the crap out of the game

and if you are scum then the doc claim could be real lol

[Iconeum]

wtf

[Iconeum]

but that implies a luca/datisi team and i refuse to believe i'm that bad at this game

[Iconeum]

i thought he was a PR

[Iconeum]

i mean he did lay it pretty thick

[Iconeum]

luca did you crumb your role?

[Iconeum]

the way he spoke about keeping PR talk down

[Iconeum]

VOTE: pops

Lets keep the PR talk down to a minimum ye?

[Iconeum]

I remember that, but I didn't get the feeling he was a PR from it.

So you thought I was Tracker, Alim was a PR, you already knew Wicked's PR and Aldu's flip. How much power did you think Town had in this game?

fairly sure there was at least 1 PR in you and alim, yes

[Iconeum]

How much power did you think Town had in this game?

it was enough for me to not wanna lynch alim

[Iconeum]

Remind me to talk about something after emps catches up/gives reasons for his reads and stuff

K thx

talk

[Iconeum]

backup tracker
informed
FN
cop

someone in here is lying because i don't believe there's gonna be 4 town PR in a 9 p game

like, one of the claims is

guaranteed

to be lying

there's confscum in (emps/luca)

[Iconeum]

Icon, glancing through your ISO it feels like you've been protecting emps the whole game. You've never once took any effort to sort that slot/put pressure on him.

And I'm pretty damn sure emps is scum.

i havent pressured you either, or datisi iirc

and?

[Iconeum]

Luca

You iso pretty consistenly puts emps at the bottom of your readslist, yet you never actually push him

and when push came to shove, you agreed with me that lynching emps would be a bad thing at the time

[Iconeum]

Datisi, are you townreading emps?

Datisi

Town Read

Icon
...
Menalque
Ali
Aldu

Null

emps
Wicked/Wimpy

Scum-lean

That's kind of where I'm at right now.

oh boy the posts abt "being above the null line is leaning town!!!" are why i always label my stuff lol

I agree with this - it's a misunderstanding that could easily be avoided, and it now looks like he's backpedaling/making it up as he goes along as a result.

I'm leaning slightly Town on Alim atm, though - the way he openly challenged me and then switched straight to you had a genuine feel about it.

@emps

, I know you pushed Wimpy. Aldu was townreading you for

not

pushing Wimpy while scumreading me for doing the opposite, so I was pointing out that this doesn't make sense as you literally pushed Wimpy more than I did.

Since then Aldu has changed his tune and said he townreads emps because he pushed Wimpy while being comfortable in the spotlight, which is contradictory to what he said before and shows he's making it up as he goes along.

Datisi

Town Read

Icon
...
Pops
Menalque
Alim
----Null line----
emps,Wicked
Aldu

Scum-lean

Revised edition of my reads.

I could see emps/Aldu being the scumteam actually.

@Alim

: If emps doesn't offer up something good soon then I might be willing to switch over.

I'm 99% sure you aren't scum with emps, but i can see it entirely possible you bring him to LYLO as the mislynch. You literally set him up through your ISO as your 'natural' scumread here

through your entire progression you seem to have a scumread on emps, but you never really attempt to further this read, and you even engage with him at one point in a way that isn't consistent with an honest scumread

jezus christ there's literally only 2 options here

emps/datisi
luca/datisi

[Iconeum]

and luca basicly has to say it's

emps/icon
emps/datisi

[Iconeum]

This is an interesting progression; going from believing my claim to making out it's 50/50 between me and emps.Do you have any reason at all to believe emps' claim over mine?

dude i don't fucking know anymore

i'm trying to figure it out

[Iconeum]

tbh i feel that doc is the odd duck in this setup

[Iconeum]

but that makes town power on the very low side

[Iconeum]

for datisi it has to be

emps/ico
luca/ico

i suppose

lol

[Iconeum]

through your entire progression you seem to have a scumread on emps, but you never really attempt to further this read,

and you even engage with him at one point in a way that isn't consistent with an honest scumread

Explain this one?

Also, emps was never a clear SR for me - I only ever leaned scum on his purely for lack of content.

1105 and 1109

don't feel like you scumread emps

[Iconeum]

literally the only scenario where datisi isn't scum is if both of luca and emps fakeclaimed

[Iconeum]

i don't know how to make sense of this

my gut says doc doesn't fit in this setup

but it's such an out of this world claim that i don't think it can come from scum

[Iconeum]

like, why does scum!emps claim doc

[Iconeum]

because your claim makes sense with there actually being a back up tracker

whateveraalignment!emps comes into massclaim, EXPECTING (like everyone else here), there is a tracker

he claims doc

[Iconeum]

so if you say emps is scum that means you agree that

scum!emps thinks there is a tracker
he also knows there's a FN
backup tracker
and he adds doc to that

for what

why does scum!emps not just come out of the gate with a guilty tracker result, battle it out with the actual tracker and either win game for scum, or setup a 3p for his partner?

[Iconeum]

on the other hand

if luca is lying then

backup tracker
FN
doc

is such a mess of a setup

[Iconeum]

because your claim makes sense with there actually being a back up tracker

whateveraalignment!emps comes into massclaim, EXPECTING (like everyone else here), there is a tracker

he claims doc

I was also expecting there to be a Tracker.

It's also possible emps could be RB and targeted Datisi both nights, which might have got him off the hook with the Tracker.

huh

[Iconeum]

that still makes the scumteam

emps/luca

so ehhhhh

[Iconeum]

actually, why is datisi alive here

[Iconeum]

1. I was also expecting there to be a Tracker; my claim only really makes sense with no Tracker, which I didn't know at the time of claiming.

2. Emps could be a roleblocker and targeted Town!Datisi both nights, which he would use to explain himself if a Tracker targeted him.

i cannot prove this to you but it's impossible

because i know i'm town

and again, if datisi is town then you are scum with emps

[Iconeum]

that still makes the scumteam

emps/luca

so ehhhhh

Or Icon/emps, which I'm strongly leaning towards atm.

have you seen the NK's

[Iconeum]

if i were scum you were dead rn

[Iconeum]

ok so if you think it's emps/icon then you say you think it's possible that I, as scum, with a tracker read on you, kill alim.

While the scumteam knows there's an FN (who targets BOTH scum back to back). And we risk hitting a VT, forcing us to live with the possibility that we face an FN AND A TRACKER CLAIM ON D3

[Iconeum]

and that we deliberately said to each other

'you know what, let's kill off possible mislynchbait instead of our tracker read or the CONFIRMED TOWN'

[Iconeum]

that's partially true, but doesn't take away the fact that i would NK into my tracker read over what I thought could be another PR

also let's not kid ourselves, anyone who got the Wicked town PM would be forced to clear Wicked, especially with both targets alive

saying i could even potentially use that as towncredit is bullshit. and you implying i'm 'using it for towncredit' simply isn't true

[Iconeum]

Another thing for you to consider is that I got the wicked result on N1. I could have ignored that on D2 (but I didn't, I put wicked near the top of my readlist), and then NK'd what I would KNOW becomes conftown in LYLO.

[Iconeum]

Scum!Ico would KNOW for SURE there is absolutely NO scenario EVER where wicked gets lynched after N1. Ever. And you think I let that live until LYLO.

Sure...

[Iconeum]

however

a scumteam of either emps/luca with datisi come into this day anticipating wicked is their mislynch. Emps wouldn't have received the message until daystart, like i did. So their NK was already sent in and they then face their mislynch suddenly conftown.

Must feel bad lol

[Iconeum]

You're literally using the fact that Wicked is alive as a reason you're Town. That's precisely what you're doing right now.

i did just now, yes

but it's true

[Iconeum]

dude i'm town this game

i can confirm you that i did not shit myself

[Iconeum]

@dats

all covered that

read first

then you can explain to me how you aren't scum this game

[Iconeum]

because of the way mod OP wrote it

'by default'

[Iconeum]

I'm sorry I don't see it, what post covered that?

And scum!me, going last in massclaim, claims Tracker here. Plain and fucking simple.

oh i didn't, i thought you meant wrt to emps

[Iconeum]

i don't understand any of these claims coming from scum tbh

[Iconeum]

also yeah i suppose scum!datisi just fakes a guilty and has the game over

[Iconeum]

◦This game does not enable Mafia factional daytalk by default.

[Iconeum]

yeah okay fair, but from an outsider POV, Luca's claim is relatively simple to make up

why is your first reaction there "that claim makes zero sense from scum"?

can i just counter that with a question:

what use does scum have from that claim?

i don't see it

[Iconeum]

i have yet to make a team that makes sense

[Iconeum]

datisi is in the poe because scum doesn't double claim PR?

but scum!datisi fakes like 99% of the time in last spot

[Iconeum]

It’s either emps/Datisi or emps/Icon. They both make sense.

i'm interested in an emps lynch

[Iconeum]

and go from there, if there's a game after that

[Iconeum]

its not datisi/luca because of reasons that luca also pointed out

[Iconeum]

nobody is voting until all players have fully committed their thoughts this game

especially our conftown, who's witholding thoughts at the moment

[Iconeum]

emps has hidden long enough this game