Team Mafia 2020: Normal Game (Endgame)

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean, Aristophanes isn't here so there's no point wagoning him.

[RadiantCowbells]

No one is actually here to wagon anyone.

[RadiantCowbells]

Town isn't a set of behaviours it's an alignment. I don't townread you as I've pointed out and I don't have anything meaningful to do with my vote right now.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't at this time seek your lynch today so I guess you're correct that I shouldn't be voting you, I just have a tendency not to unvote until I know where else I'm going.

UNVOTE:

[RadiantCowbells]

I want to be wagoning Aristophanes but I can't and I don't really see what value I'm going to get out of wagoning anyone else.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm aware there's little justification for it and her associations with a scumread of mien aren't great but I think that Bella is town anyway for whatever reason.

[RadiantCowbells]

Why do you think that I as scum would slip up in who I voted?

You realize that is exactly the kind of thing that I excel at as scum, correct?

[RadiantCowbells]

i mean:

a) that's a remarkably egocentric way to read that interaction
b) why'd he push tris here and not me or plum given that iirc you were going after both of us there too

do u remember my theory that it might be a tmi scumread

[RadiantCowbells]

i already claimed investigative so i really have no intention of jumping through hoops to prove that I'm town to you or anyone

[RadiantCowbells]

k

[RadiantCowbells]

k

[RadiantCowbells]

like i see that at certain points you were honestly trying to reach out to me (not necessarily as town but) and i didn't miss that but I don't, like, have the ability to play the way u want me to

i'm bad if i do anything besides play by instinct.

[RadiantCowbells]

after rereading your scum as well as your town games I'm not sure this fits into your scum meta either really @TW
would be interested in hearing if you've changed your mind about skitter & reads in general

[RadiantCowbells]

no rush, i'm immediately heading to bed.

[RadiantCowbells]

no rush, i'm immediately heading to bed.

[RadiantCowbells]

current thinking is that all of the people getting townread by any significant # of people {RC, Math, TW, Skitter30, Teacher, RCE} are town and that scum are all in the remainder.
decided to 180 on TW because honestly I don't think this is how he engages with the Skitter situation as scum, does scum him really try to keep open a Skitter mislynch, and w/e
I also personally think Bella is town but my reasoning for that is not strong enough to put her in that list at this time + I want to give a list that has no divisive inclusions

my original assessment of his slot was that the pathological disrespect for my reads was similar to Jingle's mini newbie but this feels deeper and I don't think that scum!TW would simultaneously keep me out of the lynchpool and make an enemy of me in a way that would make me a lot more receptive to scumreading him.

MathBlade I'm trusting y'all on + I really need a townread who is actually engaging with me a la Shana in BP or I'm simply not going to function in this game.

Teacher's back off of Skitter hard hard townpinged me; it didn't feel like a scum back off at all, it felt like the kind of thing that town do that get scumread but that scum simply wouldn't do because they would know they'd get scumread for it, I think he would have softened it rather than just nah i'm outtie.

Skitter30 everything I've already said holds.

RCE just, like, idk. He's absolutely my personal error vector in this list and I'd be open to reconsidering him later but I don't have a reason to scumread him and I think I would if he were scum.

if I had to guess it's Ari/Tris+one of the low content slots.

Regardless I think that most of the game can generally agree to clear this list for today so that leaves

Aristophanes
Tris
Iconeum
Plum
Newguy
Xtoxm
Bellaphant

Of this list I'd also hard prefer not to lynch Bella but if it's literally the only lynch in this pool that I can get without strongarming the game I'll take it.
I think that likelihood of flipping scum is in about the order that I listed them in, so i would appreciate if like
i don't think town will enjoy this game if the towngroup remains in conflict whether there's scum or not in them and i'll trust you guys to lynch Math or RCE if they're scum later

idk i'm sure I can make this game lynch someone, and have them probably flip scum, but nah.

[RadiantCowbells]

i need to go to bed but if you have anything to say or ask me that's gonna be like really fast i'll stay around

[RadiantCowbells]

i don't like, outright townread flopz, but i think the odds of scum having this entrance are significantly lower than the odds of the majority of other potential poe slots being scum

[RadiantCowbells]

eh i don't know how true that is honestly. i'm more concerned with the wagon development on them but I guess plums recent posting was kinda town

[RadiantCowbells]

let's just vig xtoxm 4head

[RadiantCowbells]

if they didn't make such an attempt to overjustify the sheeping me i would have townread that entrance a lot but i feel like it was just too overworded if that makes sense

[RadiantCowbells]

vaguely, assuming ari is scum, i'm assuming 1/2 {plum/tris} from his rule of 3 and 1/3 {xtoxm iconeum flopz}

[RadiantCowbells]

ok

VOTE: Ari

truthfully I don't want to see anyone but Ari lynched at the moment so they won't be getting my vote and I'm kinda just waiting trying to solve around him.

I guess I can place that vote if it will talk you off of the ledge.

[RadiantCowbells]

he didn't break rule of 3, i know the surrounding tone well enough + the focus on the fact that he "already has good reads already"

at least one of that set of 3 is scum if he is scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

like he as scum wouldn't talk about how he has good reads already and then give a solve that contained 0 scum. I would absolutely do that as scum. Aristophanes would not.

[RadiantCowbells]

yeah no that shouldn't fuel your paranoia at all. scum who talk about how good their reads are at a point in the game are generally bussing at the time. scum who talk about how uncertain their reads are are generally voting townies.

this isn't as effective against stronger players but I've caught tons of stronger scum players off of the ISOs of their weaker scum players using logic like this.

[RadiantCowbells]

stuff like this is pretty much my forte as town, i basically never end up incorrectly interpreting data points like this. I'm very unlikely to be wrong unless I'm wrong on Aristophanes being scum in the first place

which is why I'm more interested in flipping Ari and confirming my general gamestate read than going after his potential partners because I think the game becomes a lot easier with his flip

[RadiantCowbells]

The part that fueled my paranoia was that it wasn’t an Ari thing it’s an RC one. Fueling paranoia of you coaching Ari to do a list with no scum that you could puppet later after a bus of Ari.

Ok.

Here's the thing

I am never

ever

ever

ever

ever

EVER

living to endgame in this lobby.

If scum are virtue signalling not being afraid of me, they're still terrified of NSG because she's the strongest town player in TM and eventually she is going to start contributing reads.
If scum are all too old guard to know who either of us are to respect us they are still going to be afraid of GuyInFreezer because he is also an incredibly strong town player.

The paranoia against me has already started and I think the format of TM basically makes the paranoia 5 fold because I think as soon as 1 member of a team gets paranoid the entire team is going to as well

And I wouldn't even be able try to abuse the lack of respect that TM had for me last time because this time around enough people have at least 1 person who knows that I haven't outside of a single hydra game involving a trust tell by scum (Baton Pass) mislynched 2 town in a row this year, and even if they policy disrespect me that level of BoP applies to multiple of my teammates.

My plan as scum in this game wouldn't be to endgame, to be totally blunt, and I really really really hate playing scum right now so I would be taking advantage of the low activity to do a lot less than I am. And claiming like I did just hard doubles down on that because there's even less reason to try to argue that scum left me alive out of ~omg we can ML RC later~

so no. I get it, but no.

[RadiantCowbells]

ok to be clear

NSG on page 3 said your townread on me was weird and that tris's tone was scummy

that is the entirety of the thoughts that she has given on this game up to this point

[RadiantCowbells]

I have asked her for thoughts on this game every time she's been around and she hasn't had the time to read in depth. the moment she does you'll know about it.

[RadiantCowbells]

Yup, I'm scum with the guy I don't know is in the game and isn't on the playerlist. That's totes believable! XD

this kind of feels like you're either trying to spew him scum or not scum >_>

[RadiantCowbells]

honestly probably not but i kinda hate that all he's been doing this game is taking swipes at me and refusing to talk about it

also i disagree with your bella read

at the risk of picking a fight with him over this I absolutely hate what the worst has done this game. i just question whether it's actually scum indicative.

[RadiantCowbells]

could be like rce/ico but i don't know how likely i am to get mathblade to vote RCE.

[RadiantCowbells]

could be like rce/ico but i don't know how likely i am to get mathblade to vote RCE.

[RadiantCowbells]

sigh i'm not sure ari is scum anymore and pretty much all the time from then to now was wasted time because I was predicating all my reads off of ari scum. welp. back to the drawing board.

[RadiantCowbells]

yes exactly

[RadiantCowbells]

like that's what i kinda meant by something deeper, i feel like he just isn't interested in talking to me and i've kinda been taking it personally especially with the spat about asking for anks reads but

[RadiantCowbells]

just to be clear i don't think anything on the last page is out of Ari's town meta. i don't think it clears him, but i do feel significantly less certain of him being scum

one second i'll bring up what i was looking into with RCE/Ico but I do believe I've brought up that specific pairing before

[RadiantCowbells]

i think i can make a fairly coherent argument for why she's

not scum

, idk if i can explain why she's actually town because that's solely gut

[RadiantCowbells]

it would help if you would scumcase her so I know exactly what to address because I think it's just been kinda 'oh yeah well Bella is scum'

[RadiantCowbells]

to sum it up i have played with her quite extensively but like years and years ago

and i've been in several situations where she was a consensus scumread and i was just kinda like well i don't see why people scumread her and she feels kinda towny to me but like
i don't really have strong enough reasons to want to fight the town consensus on her and she gets lynched and flips town and i'm like well sigh.

like i can't say for sure that she's town but i feel like those are things that i've seen her accused of as town pretty often as town

[RadiantCowbells]

and honestly i feel like naked dropping and then naked removing a vote are towntells

the narrative thing I do actually kind of get? mathblade's push on Bella assumed a bunch of stuff that just wasn't true and had a bunch of sorta progression assumed that wasn't present and i'm not surprised she reacted that way

[RadiantCowbells]

No? That doesn’t answer the question. It ignores it with a “my bad” (paraphrase tone read mine)

It says she feels bad for making it? She didn’t say what her through process was just that she disliked the fact she made it. She didn’t address the question she went “whoops my bad” ignoring the point behind the question and then continues votes are bad.

No effort as to why. It’s like she expects because she said so she can just sidestep whenever someone makes valid complaints. It’s ugly.

Assuming that she is then town and I take her at her word that it is a “my bad” then what is left of the original post?

Does she reevaluate? Anything?

No she votes me for pressuring her when I brought up very valid points about her lack of connectivity with another “I gave an excuse why won’t you take it?”

@teacher even assuming this counts as a valid reply what do you make of her asking for worst by name?

i think most people respond to this with a vote if it's directed at them, honestly.

[RadiantCowbells]

mega sigh.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm... kinda realizing that it's going to be very hard to give any evidence that is going to mean a whole lot to you or Mathblade for why Bellaphant is town.
Actually it's kind of funny because you're both the rational thinkers and it's very hard to make a rational argument for this.

[RadiantCowbells]

You're correct I never brought it up publicly at least based on a peripheral ctrl-F of the game

[RadiantCowbells]

Yes Ico. I kind of want to put you as weak town for the post you threw down a plum vote but I'm gonna put a pin in that.


Yes Ico. I kind of want to put you as weak town for the post you threw down a plum vote but I'm gonna put a pin in that.

Yes Ico. I kind of want to put you as weak town for the post you threw down a plum vote but I'm gonna put a pin in that.

hmm? do you townread me for that or not? don't hedge your read like this plz

I read you for it. Don't put this pressure on me.

This specifically

oh yeah I don't plan to play mafia anymore I can out more strategies to read people
there's a scumtell that i'm going to officially name right now 'instantaneous implied continuity'
it's when someone makes a statement that clearly takes place at a discrete time but tries to force continuity in it
it doesn't work for all players and situations but often when it pops up in certain players isos who usually don't do anything like that as town it's a smoking gun
and in this specific instance i think it both points to RcE scum and Ico being their partner with the hedge

[RadiantCowbells]

there's also too much engagement between RcE and Ico and it's all kinda flat

[RadiantCowbells]

and my notes say lynch one of plum, math, Skitter, Ari.

also the hyper indirectness of 'my notes say to do x' as opposed to something like we should do x is a big scumtell

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't think you should but take this into account. I'm going to use this example but in reality I'm remaining impartial. Example:

Ank is scumreading me here, I know my alignment and I also know that Ank does not know me well enough to have a solid read on me. Now I have to make an assessment on your alignment based on a read from a player that isn't in this game. Because Ank could be feeding you a trajectory to create mislynches.

When I would much rather know how you yourself are reading the game because you're the one playing and the slot that I have to sort here, not Ank.

Does that make sense?

Also this entire thing is... kinda weird. And I've been fluctuating on it, but it's kinda weird

oh i actually associate notes with townieness tbh

having notes? sure

"my notes say to do x", no.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't think you should but take this into account. I'm going to use this example but in reality I'm remaining impartial. Example:

Ank is scumreading me here, I know my alignment and I also know that Ank does not know me well enough to have a solid read on me. Now I have to make an assessment on your alignment based on a read from a player that isn't in this game. Because Ank could be feeding you a trajectory to create mislynches.

When I would much rather know how you yourself are reading the game because you're the one playing and the slot that I have to sort here, not Ank.

Does that make sense?

Also this entire thing is... kinda weird. And I've been fluctuating on it, but it's kinda weird

oh i actually associate notes with townieness tbh

having notes? sure

"my notes say to do x", no.

[RadiantCowbells]

well i'm not really motivated to convince you of something you're already willing to believe, if that makes sense?
keep in mind that i actually am not even close to ready to vote. I don't think we're ever lynching RcE today. I'm just bringing it up for the future
I was going to case Ico later but I can do that now if you'd prefer so you have something to think about

i'm actually kinda okay with the Flopz wagon rn

[RadiantCowbells]

can you give some sort of meaningful catchup now

[RadiantCowbells]

Ari is a big SR for me, for the usual reasons, the Maths pocket attempt was not cool.

this is actually really bad regardless of ari's alignment tbh

[RadiantCowbells]

It means you talk about a change but the post was made at a time that the change already happened and you decided to talk about it like it was a fluid, continuous thing anyway.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't expect it to make much sense but it's actually a pretty good tell!

[RadiantCowbells]

Like I said, it's entirely NAI for certain people but when people do it and it's not a typical part of their posting style it's a very very AI thing.

Unfortunately it ends up hitting PRs a lot for whatever reason.

[RadiantCowbells]

PRs here meaning specifically masons and ICs

[RadiantCowbells]

Honestly I think if RcE and TW are both correctly town this game is going to be an absolute steamroll and over no later than D4.

[RadiantCowbells]

(it's actually not an amazing tell versus you specifically because I've seen you do it as town. I'm bringing this up less cuz UMUSTDIE immediately and more because it is the right thing to do atm)

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't think it's never like

flopz ico xtoxm tbh

[RadiantCowbells]

the fact that i keep ending up thinking my reads were wrong heavily points to the remaining scum being relatively inactive slots.

[RadiantCowbells]

how many votes does flopz have

[RadiantCowbells]

Has Amrun said anything about this game?

[RadiantCowbells]

I can see that. I am starting to think that this is just lurker scum central, maybe duck

[RadiantCowbells]

is it bad that i already knew that and asked the question instead of just saying he's at quite a few votes and I don't want to see a lynch any time soon

[RadiantCowbells]

who actually said just vig him btw

[RadiantCowbells]

they're objectively pretty awful. idk what i'm supposed to do about that. i wish he'd engage with me/us.

[RadiantCowbells]

Xtoxm votes would be cool.

Vig or replace would be better.

Ari at least has some content.

oh

[RadiantCowbells]

well i've felt that for a very long time, i'm just not quite sure how I'm supposed to read into that.

[RadiantCowbells]

i'll let skitter have first dibs on engagement with you.

[RadiantCowbells]

i will say that i think any player would go outside of their typical heatedness scum range in team mafia because of the relative stakes and that my townread on you is based on timing and motivation rather than existence

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm... pretty sure i'm done with mafia for a while.

[RadiantCowbells]

regarding xtoxm i am aware that he did something similar in Fire On The Mountain because I was annoying him so much but truthfully I think he would not do this in team mafia with the team that he has so. i do think it's scum indicative that he's doing it here as well but i'm not going to be sure enough to pursue that while i'm alive, pretty much, and that slot is left for you all to sort after i'm dead.

i'm kinda thinking tm might be a last hurrah and that i'm going to take a break after

actually this is me, don't steal my ideas. although it hasn't been quite the hurrah i wanted.

[RadiantCowbells]

this feels really weird to say because normally i'm like addicted to overanalysing random shit but i think i'm gonna struggle in this game until a couple of heads roll / maybe there's a little bit less rc / more everyone else?

no disrespect intended @rc i'm just... kinda already just gonna be treating you as town this phase and every time i open the thread there you are. and for some reason i don't find your interactions with a lot of slots easy to parse wrt sorting the other person's alignment

if i hadn't seen scum!you a few times over the last year i'd probably be more suspicious that you're trying to tank conversations but it actually feels earnest/unintentional

this literally sounds like something that ank would say.

[RadiantCowbells]

don't take that the wrong way as anything besides a statement of that literally sounds like something that ank would say.

[RadiantCowbells]

i kinda feel like that goes without saying but i'm going to say it anyway because yeah.

[RadiantCowbells]

actually this is me, don't steal my ideas. although it hasn't been quite the hurrah i wanted.

been thinking this for a few months, but yeah

yeah well so have i

[RadiantCowbells]

so was I!!!

[RadiantCowbells]

quack

[RadiantCowbells]

wait hoily fk you've been around since 2015?!?!?

[RadiantCowbells]

i hope that this game is the worst thing going on in everyone's lives

[RadiantCowbells]

duck just take d1 off in my opinion

[RadiantCowbells]

goodnight!

i think you should leave your vote off for now, the implied pressure is there.

[RadiantCowbells]

i personally think l-3 is more than enough for this stage of the game.

[RadiantCowbells]

i also am slowly feeling more and more that all the active players are town and that we win by lynching the nonparticipants
i wanted to watch The Irishman with you but i forgot
I townread you enough that you're off my radar unless I somehow end up alive a lot longer than I expect to and I'm trusting someone else to kill u if i'm wrong

[RadiantCowbells]

like i said earlier, because you have taken stances that you would know i wouldn't like while also having me as a clear slot
so you're both instigating me and you're not allowing yourself to mislynch me for going after you which seems like the correct move in team mafia from your pov
i also think scum you wouldn't actually try to keep skitter30 open as a mislynch? like that seems... not likely

[RadiantCowbells]

i kinda feel like it flits back and forth without me like. doing anything.

ok

is this not objectively a towntell from my end

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm aware my townread on you ~isn't good enough~. I don't care, to be blunt. I'm not afraid of you not getting scumread after I get nightkilled.
If Skitter30 wasn't already like dicey about you along with the rest of the game I would care more about handling you but people SRing you makes me even more comfortable not caring.
I'm not playing this to win in a strict sense or to be perfect, I just want to do a good enough job of finding scum that I don't feel bad about it after and then leave the site.

[RadiantCowbells]

this isn't a normal game where if i give an errant townread scum can bank on that alone to win and i think the level of care you're used to in my townreads won't be there because of that.

[RadiantCowbells]

that is a very spicy take from a very spicy girl

[RadiantCowbells]

this reads like Ico/Flopz scumteam.

[RadiantCowbells]

uh, no thank you. multiple players have sub 10 posts. the game won't start moving any faster.

[RadiantCowbells]

ari isn't even under 10

Bella, Xtoxm, and Flops are.

[RadiantCowbells]

No, math, no.

[RadiantCowbells]

lynching a new sub in with only 4 posts is insanely anti-town. period.

also I want to contribute more before I die.

[RadiantCowbells]

even if i had a guilty on flopz, even if i had another guilty on ico, i still wouldn't hammer right now.

[RadiantCowbells]

no, i don't.

[RadiantCowbells]

also 1013 is a really weird post to make as town, ngl, so that is kinda reinforcing my current scumteam read

[RadiantCowbells]

ico you have literally seen me be the nightkill target without exception in all the games we'd be together in. where do you get off saying stuff like I'm trying to create wifom

[RadiantCowbells]

like hmm

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=79156
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=79452

[RadiantCowbells]

hell go way back to my keychain hydra

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=75014

how is it even remotely imaginable that you're here like "oh ur creating wifom by saying ur gonna be the nk target"

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm stating an obvious fact that everyone in the game already knows, including you.

[RadiantCowbells]

no

i think bella is town

i think ur scum with flopz and either xtoxm or someone spicier

[RadiantCowbells]

flopz has been scumread by a lot of people since his entrance, why wouldn't u bus

[RadiantCowbells]

no u

[RadiantCowbells]

Alright i'm cooled down now let's recap events shall we

also, RC is an odd choice for the NK given his lack of interest and contribution on D1.

like you saw me nightkilled after a game i did nothing and later concluded

Not a whole lot of reads in RC's ISO, so either they killed him because of his townblock or scum were scared about RC waking up

how do you get from there to feeling the need to question me saying i'm gonna be the nightkill when i literally did nothing in a game with essentially outed prs and multiple obvtown and still ate the n1 kill

[RadiantCowbells]

you're also like

way different than you were in any town game i've ever seen you

notably i haven't looked up scum meta for you yet, i'm going to do that right now

[RadiantCowbells]

i think you're discrediting the idea that i'm the obvious nightkill because you want to make sure that I'm not protected

another piece of evidence to that theory is the fact that you reached out to both Mathblade and Skitter30 but not to myself, I think you're just looking to kill Flopz and then wait for me to be dead so you can lynch Bella.

[RadiantCowbells]

dude. u have personal experience with me dying even when i'm barely doing anything. why would you suddenly decide i'm not going to die this game??

[RadiantCowbells]

like if this is the hill you're dying on i have no sympathy if you're town? this is a weird thing for you to be questioning?

[RadiantCowbells]

did you know no one on that list has ever been nightkilled before me

[RadiantCowbells]

pretty sure you're just trying to make sure protectives aren't looking in my direction atp, i'm going to stop engaging with you on this because it's a pointless battle.

[RadiantCowbells]

Raybells. Take this direction but in a different way. What would cause Ico if scum to suggest a NK other than you?

in this game? literally nothing.

[RadiantCowbells]

then scum are going into day 3 with 1 member alive.

[RadiantCowbells]

ari's definitely still poe scum

[RadiantCowbells]

bella's not scum

xtoxm is extremely lhf but ok

[RadiantCowbells]

like i said

if scum don't nightkill me i promise this game goes no longer than d4.

[RadiantCowbells]

grr ico making me think he's town annoys me

[RadiantCowbells]

because he's saying the dumbest stuff

[RadiantCowbells]

my main concern right now is that basicly all of my scumreads are lhf/very low post counts

desu chan

[RadiantCowbells]

i guess duck is the real deepwolf contender tbh

[RadiantCowbells]

u heard me u fkin weeb

[RadiantCowbells]

note that in this case i'm not classifying mathblade as a deepwolf

[RadiantCowbells]

tris/ari/flopz? could work

idk about xtox

[RadiantCowbells]

SK is not possible.

[RadiantCowbells]

RCEnigma is the true nk bait

[RadiantCowbells]

idk if I take my RCEnigma reasons to scumread as RCE being scum tells and I drop the Ico component which is probably a more rational reading of it

RcE would probably be with Flopz (gently pushing the wagon away from him) and...?

[RadiantCowbells]

maybe flopz/rce/tris?

honestly that feels kinda good lel

[RadiantCowbells]

weird thing to say

i don't think i need any obscure tells to scumread you in a Flopz scumflip world tbh

[RadiantCowbells]

i need a hug

[RadiantCowbells]

if you're not mislynchable as town, you shouldn't be so worried given that you claim to believe i'm town and my lifespan isn't gonna be very long anyway???

[RadiantCowbells]

idk

like ico just got added to my townlist

the list of potential scumteams grows thin

[RadiantCowbells]

i guess ari/tris/flopz is still really possible, if a bit on the nose

[RadiantCowbells]

like if its ari/tris/flopz

[RadiantCowbells]

the anti-partner associatives that i thought existed between tris and xtoxm don't exist

so flopz/tris/xtoxm can be a thing too

[RadiantCowbells]

yeah 782 is trash. just trash.

[RadiantCowbells]

ok me and NSG went over this game for the last two hours and the end result is

her absolute most favoritest person: RC
her locktownreads: skitter, teacher
her light townreads: plum, bella
her very very light townread: aristophanes
her nullreads: RCE, xtoxm
her scumreads cat 1: duckling, iconeum
her major scumreads: tris, flopz

you'll notice this is fairly similar to my reads which is a sign that we're on the right track as a team I think?

[RadiantCowbells]

why is xtoxm still saying anything on page 20?

what precisely are you asking here, Tris?

[RadiantCowbells]

Bella, do you have any reads from your team?

RCE, reiterating the concern brought up regarding 914 that you're scumreading all the lurkers but not Tris and that's NSG's big scumread so we're kinda not too keen on that

[RadiantCowbells]

notably

that's 5 overlapping townreads in {RC, Skitter30, Plum, Bella, Teacher}

she found mathblade's posts difficult to read so she didn't bother giving a read there

[RadiantCowbells]

that's also overlapping hard scumreads on tris and flopz

a lot of dissimilarities in the middle

[RadiantCowbells]

i think

taking my trust in nsg's reads into account

my final readslist would then end up being

{RC}
{Skitter/Teacher}
{-}
{Bella/Plum}
{=}
{Aristophanes/RCEnigma/MathBlade} - null line
{Iconeum/TW}
{Xtoxm}
{Tris/Flopz}

[RadiantCowbells]

changes for me from my original list is mathblade is lower than he was before, plum higher than she was before, and iconeum/tw drop from somewhere around bella/plum category to just below null

keeping this in mind moreso for postgame analysis

[RadiantCowbells]

i thought he was town for ~somewhat spicy reasons~ but i trust nsg's read enough not to put him above null. still think xtoxm is more likely.

[RadiantCowbells]

sowwy

[RadiantCowbells]

does a mutual rc nsg townread not help with that? and also nsg had actual reasons for bella town

[RadiantCowbells]

nsg: please dont overly weight my reads
me: everything in this list is 100% true and accurate

[RadiantCowbells]

basically, you don't have any clear scumreads that you have original thoughts on outside of consensus, you're not really trying to get people lynched, and she viscerally, strongly, overwhelmingly hates your failure to townread skitter when you should have.

[RadiantCowbells]

'sok

like

if you're town this is probably not going to be a long game

[RadiantCowbells]

i respect nsg too much to ever remove one of her scumreads from the late game poe but i'm not exactly like chomping to go after you

[RadiantCowbells]

ok

do you think i'm scum

do you think i'm going to be alive until 'later'

[RadiantCowbells]

ok

do you think i'm scum

do you think i'm going to be alive until 'later'

[RadiantCowbells]

ok duck i'm gonna communicate this rly clearly

i think you've been not very nice to me this game. along many axes. and i get that you're busy, and that i'm spamming, and whatever, but you've made me feel bad a lot of times this game intentionally or unintentionally

and i'll take that but if you think you got offended when I implied that ankamius's mathblade read needed more perspective than "ank is goat" you have no idea how much your dig at nsg pisses me off

[RadiantCowbells]

duck you are being unpleasant this game in a way that i have never seen from you before and i think you should just take a break here.

[RadiantCowbells]

those were NSGs reasons. they weren't my reasons. my thoughts never changed except i had to take into account NSG's reads. I even asked her to verify her record reading you in terms of how much i weighted her read.

[RadiantCowbells]

(which she obviously hasn't seen because she's asleep)

[RadiantCowbells]

maybe i'm overreacting but like taking potshots at nsg is my enrage button.

[RadiantCowbells]

i think i can still read skitter if i successfully avoid reading her off of the things that i know are bad ways to read her but choose to read her off of anyway.

[RadiantCowbells]

duck you understand if it was literally anyone else i would just ignore it and use my own read right

[RadiantCowbells]

(meaning nsg, not u)

[RadiantCowbells]

honestly that last post made me reconsider my teacher townread

[RadiantCowbells]

xtoxm will not play this game until i'm dead btw

[RadiantCowbells]

zzz

[RadiantCowbells]

like if xtoxm is town and flopz is scum

which doesn't seem all that unlikely to me

he just proposed 3 different counterwagons to scum without actually hard vetoing the scum lynch or saying anything about it

[RadiantCowbells]

-bella citing a scumtell for her as a reason to scumread someone else is +equity town
-the way she introduced her teammates influence in the game
-her general read progressions i would need to follow up on

it's weird cuz i feel like this game i went from being basically majority weight on my own to being weighted less than any of the other players

like the idea of me saying someone is a top townread and them getting voted is just... bizarre tbh

[RadiantCowbells]

i think i took the respect for granted heh

[RadiantCowbells]

btw flopz was on for at least 2 hours and posted in another game but didn't post in this one.

[RadiantCowbells]

@_@

[RadiantCowbells]

fine.

VOTE: Tris

[RadiantCowbells]

fine.

VOTE: Tris

[RadiantCowbells]

dang

why is everyone getting my townreads

[RadiantCowbells]

so what is it

tris/xtoxm/ari?

[RadiantCowbells]

like tris-xtoxm-ari is the obvious associative chain in the game, i believe i referenced this before

[RadiantCowbells]

i got ur back bro

i will show everyone the might of the true dictator seal

[RadiantCowbells]

dw teacher i already look dum

flopz is top town

[RadiantCowbells]

flopz is my new mason buddy

[RadiantCowbells]

datisi is scum in this game

[RadiantCowbells]

I haven't done enough for anything to go either way

I was scumread before even joining the game, what am i supposed to do about that?

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm going to just.... not have a read on flopz either
maybe by the time I'm back he'll have played mafia
who knows

[RadiantCowbells]

i actually have to go now but

this game just got fun again

fuck

[RadiantCowbells]

I thought you said you were good at mafia now

There was no need to lie tbh

[RadiantCowbells]

Then you're actually too bad to play mafia

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm the most active player in this game
I've put the most gamesolving effort
I have very BOPable reads that have not yet been tested
And I claimed a category of town role that simply speaking you do not lynch

You don't turn around and try to lynch that players while calling me out for past games where I've policy lynched you because guess what

You're just making it really clear to everyone else that I was right to do so because you're really just that strong of a -town equity force

When NSG can't bring herself to read your posts, there's a problem here

[RadiantCowbells]

Literally every town game we play together devolves into the same thing

I am trying my hardest to lynch scum and defend town

You're trying to do the opposite

You start calling me scum for having reads that disagree with yours and not being willing to kiss up to you and sheep your reads when you're bad

The flips confirm my view of the game and you double down on your scumread of me calling it TMI despite a long history of me correctly having town/scum reads that you don't have without TMI

I'm over it, idk why you are the way that you are.

[RadiantCowbells]

Is all this really so much harder than just admitting yeah RC has better reads than me and I can lie about improving off-site or whatever but every time I do and come back I'm the same old Mathblade from civilization mafia town and scumreading people based on how much consideration they give your reads and how much they make you feel like an og town leader while shitting on me for being honest about wanting the same thing that you want?

[RadiantCowbells]

lol yes nsg is annoyed with me that's clearly it we did it

[RadiantCowbells]

Math I'm not insulting you

I'm just stating things that are true.

[RadiantCowbells]

If you try to push on me you stop getting nice teamwork RC and we all get the dictator seal.

[RadiantCowbells]

And... you care about flavor leads read on me... why?

[RadiantCowbells]

lynching my scumreads and then lynching me if i flip 2 town in a row.

[RadiantCowbells]

OK, policy lynch me then.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not sure what you want me to say to that. I'm sick of feeling like I have to jump through conflicting hoops to make everyone in this game happy.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like I'm being scumread in the 1st place for failure to be in autocrat mode. If you're going to PL me for trying to not get scumread, I don't get it.

just an fyi

I don't think you enjoy being dictator seal either tbh you always sound sad when you have to boss people around

I enjoy being scumread significantly less and if no one is treating me with the slightest respect or consideration when I'm not in dictator mode anyway, I see no point in sacrificing win equity.

[RadiantCowbells]

No reasons have been presented. Scumreads on me are fundamentally "well hes RC so even if hes doing super towny things he can still be scum."
That's not a productive or useful discussion, no one is bringing up reasons to scumread me or how anything I do has town motivation, it's just flat out "well hes RC!!"
you're acting like it's some kind of productive discussion that the game needed to have that isn't available normally when its' just stupid

[RadiantCowbells]

1) True but most is spam
2) False again most posting is spam. You haven’t done any pushes and I have had to remind you where your vote is.
3) That’s not how mafia works. Otherwise scum just put up any read wall “whoops can’t lynch them”
4) You’ve claimed investigative. You’ve also claimed impossible results in that it’s a tenant of MafiaScum D1 results don’t happen.
5) I am not trying to lynch you. I am debating wagoning you for reads and if you react poorly you’d be scum,

It is not negative town equity to consider anyone scum.

NSG not reading posts is NAI or maybe she’s annoyed with you or doesn’t want to fake reads. Lots of reasons.

like this is the cloest thing to ~reasons~ but
the general assertion that i'm spammy is not true. i guarantee i've made less than 40 fluffposts this game and i've had tons of read progressions
the idea that scum me needs to be reminded of where my votes is is hilariously out of touch with reality
no, i didn't claim impossible results, i said that implo had two guns aka muscles
you don't know what a poor vs not poor reaction is from me

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm not sure how you think it's reasonable to expect me to treat the current "discussion of me being scum" with anything besides bottomless contempt.

[RadiantCowbells]

i think i'm just getting walked all over this game in terms of both play and in terms of my feelings and i can't make people like me but i can make scum get lynched at least.

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm not self aware enough to be as good as i am as scum while lacking the self awareness to know how towny my slot is and there's literally 0 chance that any other username gets sr with the iso i have.

[RadiantCowbells]

the only town game i would have gotten lynched under that ruleset last year is baton pass.