Titus v. Alisae (endgame)

[Ankamius]

[Ankamius]

I didn't have the willpower to be on the site today, sorry

I'll try to be here tomorrow unless it continues

[Ankamius]

wtf did I miss

[Ankamius]

are you telling me that the idiotic outing of all the masons n1 was actually true?

[Ankamius]

I've decided I'm not reading the last like 30 pages or however many popped up yesterday

tia

[Ankamius]

insomnia's scumgame improved drastically if he's scum this game

[Ankamius]

the guy literally fell apart at his scumpartner being pressured when I saw it last year

It's not impossible to fix in that timeframe but having the ability to show this much confidence at the same time? I don't buy it, sorry

[Ankamius]

titus nobody is being pranked lets be honest lets lynch the objectively second scummiest player

So SW?

literally every case on sw is not convincing

Great. Then who do you want dead that's not you, Aaron, Hectic, Gobble, Chemist, RR, Amrun or Flavor Leaf?

...

titus don't do this to me

i guess bitmap? bro you removed my passion lynches

Well your sister's sorry but I must protect my masons. Aaron got too close to a lynch. Flavor Leaf is just obvtown mason.

I don't want to lynch in the trifecta.

Getting the best use of RR and keeping him away from my masons means hooding him and Gobble.

I know Amrun's role because I investigated her.

Espy's role is just puppy dogs.

TSE is the closest thing to a big we likely have.

Hectic's gunsmith is something we probably need.

Oka you feel obvtown

That leaves Bitmap, S and W, Pine, insomnia and Ank.

You're townreading at least one scum.

[Ankamius]

fuck this, I'm just laying all my cards out since this game is going to hell otherwise

I neighborized insomnia last night and he's been town as fuck in the neighborhood

now GET OFF HIM

[Ankamius]

That would mean Chemist, RR and Ank would be the remaining scum team.
They are all Neighborizors.

now that that's done

how the fuck did you find this out

[Ankamius]

called the Neighbourhood of 2 “Masons” to treat them as Masons until late game.
Wanna know what’s funny?
They were both Town!
Exactly! Yeah!

Yeah and every hood townreads each other here. They're likely all correct. Sucks to be outside them.

Coincidentally, we have every little investigatives. I am only seeing one and it's not Hectic. I have covered for this investigator in my PoE and his/her/their result.

Look who objects to reading and blindly pushes in the eliminated players (S and W and Pine). Your disagreement is wrong but in good faith.

The setup must be balanced. Ali's rules were likely no doctors and a single investigator. So we get a crap ton of neighbors instead. Ali doesn't want guilties or saves.

This gives her ways for scum to be useful, so we don't kill them.

If you think I am wrong on S and W, how else do you think Maki claims GS and Cop but is not CCed by the full version?

The improbable is true.

Part of me thinks Pine is a bait too. I just can't be sure who else to put back in atm.

my role indicates that you're wrong about this analysis, but I'm not going to say what I suspect one of the rules are until I see what people say about it, because it's entirely possible this game can be broken just by thinking along these lines

[Ankamius]

btw be careful with revealing what you know

if the masonry wasn't already outed, that post would very likely have outed all of them.

[Ankamius]

my biggest issue with RR that makes me wonder about them is that I expect they would have reached a similar conclusion, which I don't feel like they have

this is the kind of thing that they're very good at and it's one of my weakest areas, so if this theory is correct, it's a bit worrying for them

[Ankamius]

that's not what I'm referring to

I was suspecting this since towards the beginning of the day

[Ankamius]

btw titus

do you need my crumbs? I specifically crumbed wanting to neighborize a mason

[Ankamius]

actually I gave up on that plan after seeing how much trolling and shitposting happened on d1

[Ankamius]

I'm asking mainly because I can see people going "LOLSCUMGAMBIT"

because I expect that to happen

[Ankamius]

I think you're missing what I'm saying but sure

do you feel that M&K was a planned bus from the start?

[Ankamius]

I feel like there's good odds all scum are just in {Pine, Reasonably Rational, Chemist1422, Espeonage, Bitmap}

roughly in that order of confidence

[Ankamius]

ftr in the case that Aaron is NOT a mason, he's right back at the top of the list

[Ankamius]

I don't see how the game makes any sense whatsoever if scum are all outside that list

[Ankamius]

I don't see how the game makes any sense whatsoever if scum are all outside that list

Look at the VC I quoted. If S and W were scum, would the game make more sense?

no

that would mean that the scumwagon that got pushed through had zero scum on it, while the counterwagon had up to 2 scum while the rest were just kinda absent

[Ankamius]

Look at this.

T = Town
PT = Probably Town
WT = Weak Town

Maki - ?, T, PT, PT, PT
S and W - WT, T, PT, WT

titus you even said it yourself, your townreads are weaker off the scum lynch than on it

[Ankamius]

Sherlock and Watson (7) - Pine, Amrun, Ankamius, Bitmap, AaronFrost, Hectic, OkaPoka
Maki and Kaito (3) - Sherlock and Watson, Spiffeh, gobbledygook
TrueSoulEnergy (3) - Chemist1422, Espeonage, TrueSoulEnergy

Ank and SW

Additional support. If your scumreads are correct, then only Bitmap is scum here. Why would scum ever divert to Maki?

S and W is not likely town.

I left the wagon and FL joined M&K in the next VC

Pine likely recognized that it was lost since the S&W one was momentum based, and he+Espe joined M&K immediately

so...

[Ankamius]

because Chemist and Espe are already on there?

[Ankamius]

wait what's your scumlist again titus

[Ankamius]

if SW wanted towncred to endgame with, why does spiffeh die n1

if he didn't want cred, why did he hard bus

[Ankamius]

ftr

insomnia has had exactly the same tone and general thought processes inside and outside the hood, so I strongly doubt he specifically tried to pocket me

[Ankamius]

ftr

insomnia has had exactly the same tone and general thought processes inside and outside the hood, so I strongly doubt he specifically tried to pocket me

*inside the hood

[Ankamius]

if SW wanted towncred to endgame with, why does spiffeh die n1

if he didn't want cred, why did he hard bus

Spiffeh was universally townread so hard, not even my mid could save him. Ali legit seemed shocked when he flipped mason.

S and W likely did want cred.

here's the problem

if the scumteam were banking on S&W endgaming with that cred (which why the fuck would he hardpush M&K into the ground otherwise), then why not kill ME? or anyone else who has significant recent experience with him?

why Spiffeh specifically?

[Ankamius]

even better yet

a scumteam of S&W + M&K are shrewd enough to abuse my townread on M&K enough to not just shut me out as hard as what ended up happening, Krazy knows well enough I struggle in games where I can't scrape together enough credibility to make any moves later on in the game, so not letting me dig my own grave really feels like a missed opportunity from scum!him

this is especially apparent because he tried to abuse my reads in a marathon game just yesterday for his own ends as scum

[Ankamius]

then why not kill ME? or anyone else who has significant recent experience with him?

why Spiffeh specifically?

Are we anywhere near endgame?
I scumread you for your random reads?
Spiffeh was universally townread and a paragon?

you're missing my point

Spiffeh isn't a threat to Krazy specifically compared to other players in the game, so basing the gameplan around having Krazy endgame over keeping the scumteam afloat would benefit the scumteam more in the scenario where that's the case

the gameplan you're suggesting indicates a more general approach, which is pointing away from S&W as scum

[Ankamius]

even better yet

a scumteam of S&W + M&K are shrewd enough to abuse my townread on M&K enough to not just shut me out as hard as what ended up happening, Krazy knows well enough I struggle in games where I can't scrape together enough credibility to make any moves later on in the game, so not letting me dig my own grave really feels like a missed opportunity from scum!him

this is especially apparent because he tried to abuse my reads in a marathon game just yesterday for his own ends as scum

Why would S and W try and attack you when you self sabotaged with your random readslist?

because if I ever flip, it's condemning to him.

[Ankamius]

if I'm alive long enough to realize he's scum

[Ankamius]

I'm not even talking about the d1 thing, because it's historically realistic that I would change my tune on him after the scum lynch

but it would only be a matter of time before I reach the same conclusion again, and at that point it's very hard to have me flip without my BoP on him becoming apparent, as well as hard to keep me alive because that scumread will be around forever

[Ankamius]

hectic isn't scum

[Ankamius]

even better yet

a scumteam of S&W + M&K are shrewd enough to abuse my townread on M&K enough to not just shut me out as hard as what ended up happening, Krazy knows well enough I struggle in games where I can't scrape together enough credibility to make any moves later on in the game, so not letting me dig my own grave really feels like a missed opportunity from scum!him

this is especially apparent because he tried to abuse my reads in a marathon game just yesterday for his own ends as scum

Why would S and W try and attack you when you self sabotaged with your random readslist?

I'm even confident that if he was scum, he'd immediately know something was way off just by this alone

he knows me well enough to understand I don't do shit like this for no reason, he'd be a lot more likely to expect I either have a very strong PR, am a mason, or am informed of something I want to keep hidden but want to be sure I can get out there in the future

aka I'd expect scum!him to know I'm purposely baiting scumreads

[Ankamius]

hectic isn't scum

Based on what? His cautious attitude? Multiple lies to keep attention on town? Hectic was going to be a major push today before his Oka gambit.

that gambit was so batshit insane that I really doubt it comes from scum

I even explained this earlier

[Ankamius]

which clears am I not trusting

[Ankamius]

which clears am I not trusting

RR, Chemist, Aaron.

They are clear bc of the slip.

Flavor Leaf is either my mason or my fake.

Gobble's a 1-shot cop.

Amrun is the friendly clear.

You're you.

Espe doesn't claim to me day 1.

Pine's likely a bait trap.

I'm town because duh
I trust the Amrun clears
Sherlock and Watson are town because of day 1 and subsequent play not making any sense from them as scum
insomnia is town because I strongly doubt his scumplay improved as drastically as it would require for him to pull off what he's been able to do this game
OkaPoka is town because I strongly expect that he would've done something other than push back with a VT claim into a selfvote if he was scum, regardless of SvS with Hectic or SvT
Flavor Leaf is town because I strongly doubt he positions as much as he did D1 only to do fuck all after getting that cred
Bitmap I'm leaning town because I really feel like he'd be trying to pocket me harder in the neighborhood if he was scum, since he specifically neighborized me and outed beforehand that he was neighborizing me. Our neighborhood is NOT EVEN A FULL PAGE LONG and most of that is ME posting
Hectic is entirely possibly scum, but I really really doubt that the gameplan going into D2 was to cause a distraction by just hardspewing a potential future mislynch town just to create a diversion when Alisae literally did the same thing just by insinuating one thing later on in the day; I don't think Alisae's dumb enough to go this route and I know that e likes to create fakeclaims for eir teammates and give counsel on how they should play
TrueSoulEnergy I don't understand, but Insomnia is hardtownreading him (like... HARDtownreading) so I'm ok sheeping it
Gobbledygook I'm trusting that you did get his role; BUT I don't think this is necessarily clearing; he's one of the first I'm looking at if I get more insight into the setup and there's any reason to suspect scum got town-looking roles (DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THIS, THIS IS ENTIRELY POSSIBLE)

That literally leaves:

Pine
Espeonage
Chemist1422
AaronFrost
Reasonably Rational (hydra of Cerberus v666 and Drixx)

[Ankamius]

I literally don't see the game making any sense from the scumteam's standpoint if ALL FIVE of those palyers are town

it requires Alisae to either be actually braindead scum (which I know is false and would EXPECT to be false even if I didn't), or playing only to troll everybody, which is a really interesting idea considering how convenient a lot of mechanical things are

[Ankamius]

I don't expect I'm so wrong on how the game has panned out that I'm hardclearing people I shouldn't be, especially the entire team

the game outright makes no sense to me if I only have town in my PoE

[Ankamius]

yeah aaron's posts d2 were legit very bad

[Ankamius]

idk titus

I get hardons for deepwolf hunting a lot of the time, but that doesn't seem like a particularly strong course of action right now

[Ankamius]

is this you saying he isn't a mason

[Ankamius]

I kinda would rather pine honestly

[Ankamius]

Titus I really think this setup was designed to out your masons early on anyway

[Ankamius]

Aaron is an inevitable death

Pine gives mechanical value and also helps potentially narrow down the PoE for both sides

[Ankamius]

like it gives SOME value in every angle

[Ankamius]

Titus I'm trying to work with you

[Ankamius]

Why do you have such a scum boner for me?

because I find it entirely possible that your role is scum in this setup

[Ankamius]

all five of them?

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Pine

[Ankamius]

Hectic claimed neighborizer too rofl

[Ankamius]

we have one dead neighborizer and FIVE CLAIMED

AT LEAST 1/3 ARE TOWN if you assume all are actually legit, the number only increases if you assume they aren't

[Ankamius]

we have one dead neighborizer, which makes it 2/6 and 4/6

[Ankamius]

you got us TSE, our master plan was for ALL OF US to claim to be able to neighborize somebody

and there happens to be two town that we know of that can also neighborize people

and we have no smoking gun that makes it seem town indicative

YOU GOT US TSE

[Ankamius]

Maki and Kaito have been lynched.

They were a

Mafia Jack-of-All-Trades (Rolecop, Alien,

Neighboriser

)

.

Night One begins now. This phase will end in (expired on 2020-02-14 23:00:00).

[Ankamius]

you're assuming that a scumteam including:

Alisae, who is competent at fakeclaiming and set up the entire game to eir specifications mechanically

and at least one of:

me, who is seen as competent enough as scum to be able to deepwolf by half the playerlist
RR, who is comprised of two players that are among the top players mechanically on the entire site

would approve of literally every single scum claiming to be able to neighborize someone without having a very good reason to make it look town indicative

that's fucking insane

and that's not even including the idea that we'd have to:

1. give any reason why we're neighborizing each other instead of hitting masons, which we can easily do if we are all actually able to neighborize, considering that we would have significantly more setup knowledge than town would
2. have a very good reason to neighborize each other in the case we're faking it, which goes back to no smoking gun that makes it seem inherently town indicative
3. figure out a way to explain how TWO SLOTS THAT, IN A VACUUM, WOULD BE PRIORITY KILLS IN THIS KIND OF GAME would survive to the end of the game (assuming both are scum, this is significantly weaker if both are town and mildly weird if we're TvS)
4. figure out how to not hardspew that the setup does not actually indicate that being able to neighborize is town indicative as more information becomes available to the town with a town treestump that has experience breaking setups in this exact same way as scum

in what universe does any of this make any practical sense

[Ankamius]

k you're on ignore TSE

good luck with that

[Ankamius]

let me know how pushing the scumteam as all neighborizers goes in postgame

[Ankamius]

Cerb have you figured out what I have yet

[Ankamius]

I've given enough hints, I'd be shocked if you couldn't

[Ankamius]

Titus: Alisae slipped 3 people town
TSE: omg titus you're going to throw the game

---

Also TSE: alisae slipped all the scum are neighborizers

[Ankamius]

oh god you don't even get it

I just can't

[Ankamius]

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Ankamius]

fucking hell I needed that laugh

thank you TSE

[Ankamius]

ok for real now

TSE please tell me you understood the joke and were just ironically responding

[Ankamius]

ok for real now

TSE please tell me you understood the joke and were just ironically responding

What joke?

oh dear

[Ankamius]

Ank when did you start talking to somni about reads in the pt?

-S

3 days ago, afternoon - slight snippets of our personal PTs/reads, otherwise mostly testing each other and kinda passing ideas back and forth, he posted his scumreads list and some justification a bit before this
2 days ago, early morning - I gave a full reads list of where I was, he immediately commented on all my nullreads with why his reads were the way they were (like... IMMEDIATELY)

[Ankamius]

after that the PT is mostly solvey stuff

[Ankamius]

Ank check PT so I can pocket you. I haz question.

did you not post it yet?

[Ankamius]

are you saying I should have had insomnia answer or (?)

[Ankamius]

When did you first mention Bitmap, Pine, and RR? All on Friday or more on Saturday?

-S

bitmap and pine when I posted my reads
RR right before that

[Ankamius]

nope, this was almost a full day after that

[Ankamius]

lmao no

I held everything close to the chest for like... a full day

[Ankamius]

oh wait, I did say that Bitmap DID neighborize me before that

that's the only reference

[Ankamius]

Bitmap is in poe but you think he'd have tried to pocket you more -- that about where your read is?

ya

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Bitmap

I'm still worried insomnia is scum that knows he needs to tryhard to win, but Watson thinks somni is out of his scumrange and frankly Ank has a better % read on insomnia than I do. Please don't lose this game to a PT pocket, Ank.

this would be best compromise imo

-S

ftr

insomnia has had exactly the same tone and general thought processes inside and outside the hood, so I strongly doubt he specifically tried to pocket me

I've taken this into account already dw

[Ankamius]

Ank has a better % read on insomnia than I do.

what experience are you aware of that I have with insomnia?

just curiosity

[Ankamius]

uhhhhh I was wrong on him in port arthur lol

[Ankamius]

GRANTED it was mainly his interactions with Persivul who I had a strong scumread on

but still

[Ankamius]

Like this is pretty different from port arthur but the things Watson is saying are outside insomnia's scum range I thought were ballpark similar to there, also his weird confidence upon replacing in with a full solve but then seeming to not read certain slots and then exclusively focusing on people who he'd played with a lot on other sites just all seems scummy

Frozen Angel's scum replace out was basically identical to Excalibur imo

I don't like the slot and his tone toward me throughout the day has been slimy

But I'm not going to give enough fucks about this game to push it through with Titus being a pain in the ass and Bitmap is a much safer mislynch

-S

he had this same confidence with a full solve in a recently completed game where he replaced in

tonally he's very similar to that game

[Ankamius]

I thought you caught somni at the end though?

re: RR - I still liked the one early post where Cerb complained about not being mason but other than that the slot is in the poe

-S

I only caught it after irrelephant caught that his claim was impossible, I never would have looked at it otherwise

[Ankamius]

he had this same confidence with a full solve in a recently completed game where he replaced in

tonally he's very similar to that game

link me

-S

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=81655

[Ankamius]

Look at his neighborhood

[Ankamius]

And keep in mind, they had just gotten a scumflip in a setup where that heavily swings the game in towns favor

[Ankamius]

What even are your reads atm krazy

[Ankamius]

Given Titus demanded a roleclaim since she just CANNOT fucking accept a game where I ever roll town with her, even though I KNOW I should be flattered she thinks this is in my fucking scumrange it's mostly just frustrating right now

-S

this is like 80% of my town games nowadays

[Ankamius]

this game is exhausting

[Ankamius]

lol this is a funny conversation to watch from a distance

[Ankamius]

lol this is a funny conversation to watch from a distance

Why?

nothing related to the game itself

[Ankamius]

sometimes I wonder whether TSE is a parody of a mafia player

[Ankamius]

idk Ank where are you on chemist, am I misreading that ali exchange?

-S

I don't think it's really AI

[Ankamius]

Hasn't Creature gotten worse over time tho?

-S

he's gotten a lot better at scum and his towngame is still decent

[Ankamius]

you guys were busy while I was asleep

[Ankamius]

honestly I'd just suggest the highest value kill since there's this much hueing and hawing about where to actually go today

[Ankamius]

I know I saw somebody asking about my scumgames within the last 10ish pages but I can't find it when I go back to look for it

am I just high

[Ankamius]

i like ank too! but i haven't been able to witness her scumgame but I've heard a lot of chatter about it but I agree with just townbinning her too today

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go <- repped out due to mod flake
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

[Ankamius]

sign the damn treaty ank

eh sure

I don't necessarily agree with Espeonage, but it's never going to get any traction and I don't think he's a very high value lynch anytime soon either way

[Ankamius]

I just don't see any strong reason to townread him like the rest of the playerbase

I'm working from the top down

[Ankamius]

for today yes

[Ankamius]

good luck getting TSE to agree on a townread on me rofl

[Ankamius]

dude's literally scumread me in every single game we've ever played

only exception is the game we were scumpartners since I replaced in right before the night he was killed

[Ankamius]

Idk if my reads are going to be very malleable from here on until the end of the day

I think I need a flip to be able to do more

Shrug

[Ankamius]

Might just be bored with what's being posted lately tbh

[Ankamius]

What does egghead mean

[Ankamius]

Hindsight makes things really easy to judge

[Ankamius]

what's the VC atm?

[Ankamius]

Where's ank

Ank bitty vs chemmy?

-S

I'd rather lynch chemist tbh

[Ankamius]

I'm purposely not talking because my opinion either is going to cause tension or derail a lynch that the majority wants

no real benefit

[Ankamius]

Ank can we count on you?

I'd prefer to keep my votes off targets that I don't believe in for Titus' sake

if it's ABSOLUTELY necessary, I will vote, but it can potentially muddle Titus' VCA later and I don't really want to risk being subjected to being tunneled by the treestump when I have options to avoid it

[Ankamius]

Hey insomnia

Make sure to ask the mod why I'm pissed at you please

[Ankamius]

Look for shifts throughout day two, especially after I reveal that I had a neighborhood with insomnia. I never mentioned that neighborhood beforehand.

[Ankamius]

I can paraphrase both neighborhoods if needed.

[Ankamius]

Ank and RR welcome to the hot seat

Thank you.

[Ankamius]

Depends on what you mean by spicy.

[Ankamius]

Ask me postgame.

[Ankamius]

Ank and RR welcome to the hot seat

Thank you.

When you defend scum two days in a row you got some splaining to dooo

If my goal was to defend my scumpartners, I would've put more effort into it than I did. Especially Bitmap, who we would have had to gambit a neighborhood with.

[Ankamius]

Ank and RR welcome to the hot seat

Thank you.

When you defend scum two days in a row you got some splaining to dooo

If my goal was to defend my scumpartners, I would've put more effort into it than I did. Especially Bitmap, who we would have had to gambit a neighborhood with.

We already know Bitmap was willing to gambit to neighborize his scumpartner. That's a fact against you, not for you.

What do you believe the reason was?

[Ankamius]

I should've been more clear.

Why did Bitmap need to neighborize day one? He outed that he could out of nowhere under no pressure.

[Ankamius]

I should've been more clear.

Why did Bitmap need to neighborize day one? He outed that he could out of nowhere under no pressure.

Why does Ali make all the JoATs the same role...?

The most likely possibility is for versatility.

[Ankamius]

I yearn for the day I see amazing scumhunting goddess Ankamius
All I’ve seen is someone who tears down town cores and doesnt lynch scum :,(

Again.

My strength is townhunting, not scumhunting.

[Ankamius]

BUT YOU DONT EVEN TOWN BLOC THE TOWN PEOOLE ANK
MTHIS IS WHY NO ONE CAN TRUST YOU

Then don't. I'm not planning on making a move until I need to, so currently I don't need that trust.

The only thing I need is enough credibility to not be lynched. If I can achieve that much, then Alisae has to constantly weigh the possibility that I'll suddenly become a threat every single night. I'm self aware enough to know when I'm on the wrong track early on in the game, so I'm content to sit back and watch until I have what I need to start piecing the game together.

[Ankamius]

Hey insomnia

Make sure to ask the mod why I'm pissed at you please

I'm going to just requote this and leave the thread for a while.

[Ankamius]

Don't shame insomnia, Ank, he uhhh he's just doing what insomnia does, you know. insomnia things

not sleeping

do you need a hug?

-S

I'll get over it.

[Ankamius]

Oh okay. Do you want a hug anyway even though you don't need one?

-S

Hugs are always nice.

[Ankamius]

RN I just trying to figure out whom out of RRx Hectic and Ank is last mafia.
Question is would Ank Kill Insomnia as mafia?
The answer I have for that is “only if Insomnia caught Ank scum slipping”
(Like During Night Phase)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAJHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAH

[Ankamius]

you don't know why I find that post so funny

and you will continue not to know

[Ankamius]

Oh jeez.

[Ankamius]

I have no idea how to read Ank

99% of the site can't.

[Ankamius]

Let me know when something interesting happens.

I'll be posting in my neighborhood in the meantime.

[Ankamius]

The Case Against Ank

Ok I normally don't do case with a mix of VCA and play but here goes.

Ankamius (5) - Spiffeh, OkaPoka, Bitmap, TrueSoulEnergy, gobbledygook [Source: VC 1.6]

Later when pushed day 2, Bitmap says he always hoods Ank because they work so well together. He's voting Ank because Ank feels weird and is having trouble getting into the game. Why would you vote someone you work well with if they have trouble getting into the game? Instead, treating them like I've treated RR makes more sense.

My guess is that Bitmap wanted to take advantage of my bad day one to both try to keep my reads bad and to have me protect him from a lynch. I don't think it was coincidental that he stopped posting within it pretty shortly after the neighborhood was initially made, since it isn't strictly required if I'm already townreading him. Yet when it became clear that I wasn't going to hard defend him, he started posting within it again.

A lot of this is evident by our posts within the thread.

Now, let's look at this wagon in more detail. We know Spiffeh is town. RIP. OkaPoka is consensus town. Bitmap was scum. TSE and Gobble are mostly consensus town. This is not a scum driven wagon on Ank. The wagon starts to disintegrate when Gobble jumps off. Bitmap then needs to think about his vote more. It's a perfect opportunity to disintegrate this wagon. Especially if RR scum was wagoned earlier in the day. (More on that theory later).

This is not necessarily indicative of scum. It's entirely reasonable that the scumteam were expecting a trick, considering it had to have been fairly obvious to them that I was baiting scumreads to myself. The wagon disintegrated when I dropped the act and revealed my reads were fake, not by Bitmap leaving the wagon. Spiffeh even posted at that time that he wasn't all that keen on the wagon anymore when he left it.

Bitmap could have easily decided to hood Ank who is also scum. The scum, unless it's in their role, cannot multitask. PT Cops might be a possible role. Otherwise, why would Bitmap try to hood his partner to save her if his fakeclaim was always going to be the protectives? This would leave the killer free to actually do kills without getting a positive in the PT.

This is a theory that doesn't say why it's more likely that Bitmap neighborized a scumpartner over town. I've given an explanation earlier in this post about why Bitmap would neighborize me when I'm town.

Ank meanwhile has been a big push away from lynching Bitmap and Maki. On day 1, he was all about the Sherlock vote. (Note: This is NAI if Sherlock is scum like my other theory.) If Sherlock is town, Ank was helping to create a counterwagon to scum. [Source VC 1.12] Yet, Ank is next to Bitmap which is a minor counterpoint as Titus VCA supposes that rarely happens. Counterpoint, Titus VCA should be fucked with somehow.

This is ultimately meaningless. None of this says why it necessarily comes from scum instead of town, because town aren't precluded from making moves that look like scum planning on the surface when there's actually other reasons for the same play that come from town.

The rest of the day, the wagons continue to swap. Sherlock gets up to 7 but Maki gets hammered. The back end of the Sherlock and Maki wagons consists of Hectic, Pine, Espeonage, OkaPoka, AaronFrost. These names are largely town. Unless Maki and Sherlock are both scum, this looks like an organic swap between the two wagons as I townread, at least minorly, all of the names on this list. Sherlock momentum died out because it was already scum infested. If RR is also scum, he couldn't vote early on day 1 to infest the wagon more without me knowing he was scum. (Despite my protests, Town!RR doesn't vote early.) Ank defends Maki by highlighting the strength of my TRs against the other relative strength of TRs at some point during day 1. 4593

Day one ended at post #3021. The post you are referring to happened on day two.

Other than that, none of this is really anything I can respond to in the first place.

Ank then pushes Pine as a utility lynch after being the stubborn voice disrupting town most of the day. Even when I would cave on Aaron, he would turn around and push for Pine instead. In 2.2, the wagons were 4 on Bitmap and 3 on Pine. (The Aaron wagon is lost to the VCA gods. I has sads.) Ank puts Bitmap at lean town because "Bitmap I'm leaning town because I really feel like he'd be trying to pocket me harder in the neighborhood if he was scum, since he specifically neighborized me and outed beforehand that he was neighborizing me. Our neighborhood is NOT EVEN A FULL PAGE LONG and most of that is ME posting." (Source: 4670 Who seriously townreads someone for a lack of posting and effort in the game as a whole?

First, why is me wanting Pine dead over AaronFrost after you allowed it scum indicative? I stated in my neighborhoods that I was specifically avoiding stepping on your toes anymore since I had a feeling that you would be compromised, and an AaronFrost townflip at that point in the game would destabilize the game more for not much gain as the risk for a potential scumflip. Pine gives information about the setup and helps my PoE, so I was entirely okay with pushing for that instead.

You aren't understanding what I'm actually saying with 4670 if that is your response. I expected that a scum Bitmap who neighborizes me would do so specifically to pocket me, yet his posting in the neighborhood didn't indicate all that much effort in trying to actually do so. That lack of effort is incongruent with the play, and considering I don't see much other reason for him to do so, that equates to town. Notably, I didn't locktown him for that, only a minor to moderate townread.

After asking me to define an egghead as necessary in a scumteam for this, Ank does zero followup on whether she thinks one is required. Why ask me to define it if she didn't care about the point? Furthermore, Ank defends bitmap in 5554, saying it's really easy to judge bitmap in hindsight. I have trouble believing a player as skilled as Ank wouldn't say kill it with fire.

First, just because I don't followup doesn't mean I don't care about the point.
Second, dropping points when I have nothing more to say (or forget, in the case that I'm not at home while I'm in the engagement) is significantly more likely to come from me as town as scum.
Third, I feel like I'd have to explain why the entirety of how day one happened for why trying to BoP me here isn't a worthwhile activity up to this point in the game, but that's something I won't write unless I have to. The tl;dr is that I don't function very well in gamestates that come up from how day one began.

Not relevant to the VCA and play analysis directly but Ank seems far too defensive in 4801 when TSE explains his all neighborizers are scum theory. I don't think it's true but Ank gets specifically defensive on her and RR. She said RR would veto his plan, when TSE has been tunnelled on Aaron and Chemist the whole time. Ank considers the possibility of scum neighborizing each other as ridiculous but never uses it as a point to directly defend Bitmap. In fact, TSE continues tunnelling Chemist, not realizing the gold mine that he should have. Namely, this is highly suggestive of Ank+RR. As you can get to the number of neighborizers without including Ank or RR (just use Aaron and Chemist, plus there's several unfullclaimed slots.)

Ank continues to aggressively discredit the theory that all scum are neighborizers theory despite having TSE on ignore. She really wants the slot discredited when TSE's own tunneling does that himself. (Tbh, if I was scum, I would be helping TSE sound more rational and voting Chemist but that's neither here nor there.)

I hate townreads using garbage logic to loudly push things. Sue me.

Ank likely doesn't mention her hood with insomnia because it's either a) fiction or b) Ank only killed insomnia after failing to pocket them. I'm more inclined towards a because it gives Ank an alibi for the night of the N1 scumkill. Remember, they can't multitask and Ank still needs a PT cop alibi. (Again, not sure one exists but if it does I think I know who it is and why he's acting the way he is. Town points there.)

First, read this exchange one more time. This is pretty significant evidence that the neighborhood does indeed exist.
Second, why would I fake a neighborhood with insomnia to have an alibi for the PT Cop on night one when I would have to know Bitmap was neighborizing me? Saying that the neighborhood between Bitmap and me is fiction doesn't work because Bitmap directly outed that he was going to neighborize me the day before. It's much safer to just use that neighborizer shot.
Third, if I suspect that there's a PT Cop in the game (which I have to for your logic to make sense), why claim a neighborhood to save insomnia only to kill him the night afterwards? This isn't a very sensical scum move, as well as requiring insomnia to go along with the gambit.

[Ankamius]

Let me know when something interesting happens.

I'll be posting in my neighborhood in the meantime.

There’s like....
No one in there.

That's the joke.

[Ankamius]

I'm annoyed at Insomnia because he literally outed himself as scum in the PT, which convinced me to change my action last night to something that has given me no value.

[Ankamius]

And the best part, it was because he was "bored."

[Ankamius]

As far as I can tell, he wanted me to out my full role and tell him what I thought Alisae's rule(s) were. I challenged him instead and he backed off.

[Ankamius]

He also seemed convinced I had a third neighbor.

[Ankamius]

Lul also does that mean you're another JOAT

Yup.

[Ankamius]

alright
so you mentioned earlier that Somni should ask the mod for why you're so mad at him
meaning you didn't out who you targeted in your neighbourhood
any reason for that considering it's empty so is a more practical way rather than telling him to ask the mod to find out?

also kinda surprised you wouldn't be ranting/say something to him about it there

This I won't go into. I will explain postgame.

[Ankamius]

I'm annoyed at Insomnia because he literally outed himself as scum in the PT, which convinced me to change my action last night to something that has given me no value.

Did you kill him?

Obviously.

[Ankamius]

Oh, why I didn't post it there? Because there is a history of scum having abilities to see PT messages, and since it hasn't been seen in a few iterations, I could see Alisae picking a role like that.

[Ankamius]

That kind of slip isn't like guaranteed to be a proper "slip" always. It depends heavily on how trained in rhetoric the person typing the post is.

The

reaction

to being pushed on it is the point. GGs reaction is bad and then he disappeared. That's way more telling than a grammatical slip by itself.

~D

You can make an argument based on his general tone throughout the game

But this specifically isn't a thing and I don't think his general tone really is either.

[Ankamius]

What is the currently alive playerlist?

[Ankamius]

TrueSoulEnergy
Pine
Flavor Leaf
Hectic
OkaPoka
Espeonage
Sherlock and Watson (hydra of PenguinPower & Krazy)
Chemist1422
AaronFrost
gobbledygook
Ankamius
Reasonably Rational (hydra of Cerberus v666 and Drixx)
Amrun

[Ankamius]

TrueSoulEnergy

Pine

Flavor Leaf

Hectic
OkaPoka

Espeonage

Sherlock and Watson (hydra of PenguinPower & Krazy)

Chemist1422

AaronFrost

gobbledygook

Ankamius

Reasonably Rational (hydra of Cerberus v666 and Drixx)

Amrun

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Pine

[Ankamius]

why Pine over Reasonably Rational/Misty who seem like the main focus/wagons right now?

I'm not having RR in green because they're also not really around, but I think they'd have more of a plan on how to town themselves up if they were scum. They seem more lost and behind than i think they really should if Alisae was their scumpartner.

Pine is for his posts today. I don't think they're particularly likely to come from town.

[Ankamius]

Plus, I get more value from his flip than Chemist's.

[Ankamius]

Humhum.

[Ankamius]

Ank I would like to discuss your TSE townread. Why?

He's too stiff, plus I don't believe Alisae ever recruits him after Calendar Mafia.

[Ankamius]

humhum indeed

Misty and Reasonable Rational both town easy game

I actually somewhat agree with this. I think Pine + Espeonage has underrated scum equity together, but otherwise Chemist is my pick if one is wrong currently.

[Ankamius]

Krazy what even are your reads today?

[Ankamius]

I see.

[Ankamius]

Ank I would like to discuss your TSE townread. Why?

He's too stiff, plus I don't believe Alisae ever recruits him after Calendar Mafia.

1. For those of us who did not play that game or do not have the free time to read it, can you fill me in on what happened in that game?

2. Do you feel TSE’s play on Day 1 and Day 3 is the same as his play in Masquerade Ball?

Most wouldn't know anyways besides the reassurance that the scum thread was horrifying. It was never released.

Let's just say that day talk turned out to be negative utility that game and Alisae/TSE were both scum.

[Ankamius]

Every single one of my posts in the thread was released. None others have.

[Ankamius]

Every single one of my posts in the thread was released. None others have.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11423297

[Ankamius]

TY. I would also like to apologize to you because I feel like I’ve been mean to you and my words and actions were uncalled for.


That said, I hope you realize how big of a liability you are (as anyone would be in your position) for defending two flipped scum back to back.

Accepted. I wasn't offended either way, but I appreciate it nonetheless.

I understand where it comes from. I mainly disagree that it necessarily comes from scum, it only appears that way if you ignore context.

[Ankamius]

Ank, that conversation doesn't show you had a hood. Second, you never followed up on your theory that TSE knew you were a neighborizer.

I remember TSE at some point substituting my name for somebody else at some point.

I think it was after he initially stated it and I simply forgot at the time, but that was plausible enough of an excuse that I didn't feel the need to press the issue.

[Ankamius]

My ability was not messed with.

[Ankamius]

Amrun what are your reads right now?

[Ankamius]

I have one, but it is unused.

[Ankamius]

Watch, somebody will claim I'm scum for that alone.

[Ankamius]

I have one, but it is unused.

TrueSoulEnergy

Pine

Flavor Leaf

Hectic
OkaPoka

Espeonage

Sherlock and Watson (hydra of PenguinPower & Krazy)

Chemist1422

AaronFrost

gobbledygook

Ankamius

Reasonably Rational (hydra of Cerberus v666 and Drixx)

Amrun

humhum indeed

Misty and Reasonable Rational both town easy game

I actually somewhat agree with this. I think Pine + Espeonage has underrated scum equity together, but otherwise Chemist is my pick if one is wrong currently.

Unchanged from this.

[Ankamius]

The first quote was an accident.

[Ankamius]

Why are AF/Hectic green for you?

I don't think the scumteam are especially likely to just throw out there that they are JoaTs if there's that many on the scumteam without some sort of guarantee that they would have some protection for it.

Maki didn't claim until she was virtually dead already. Even then, she hid most of her powers.
Bitmap claimed the neighborhood ability and likely relied on me as a shield.

Hectic throwing out the rolecop with a bad looking gambit after Maki flipped a rolecop JoaT and Bitmap could be guessed as one before too long? That isn't particularly a good idea from scum in that situation, yet is something I can see town doing just because.

AaronFrost I just feel hasn't been scummy today. I'm looking for specific things and he hasn't displayed any of what I'm looking for.

[Ankamius]

why Pine over Reasonably Rational/Misty who seem like the main focus/wagons right now?

I'm not having RR in green because they're also not really around, but I think they'd have more of a plan on how to town themselves up if they were scum. They seem more lost and behind than i think they really should if Alisae was their scumpartner.

Pine is for his posts today. I don't think they're particularly likely to come from town.

[Ankamius]

Congratulations on proving that nothing is concrete, Flavor Leaf.

Do you have anything else to say about my reasoning?

[Ankamius]

Oh, are we repeating day one?

[Ankamius]

Oh, are we repeating day one?

That would be a good thing if we did. I hit scum.

I wish you luck then.

[Ankamius]

Let me know how brute forcing a lynch works out for you!

[Ankamius]

Okay.

[Ankamius]

Whoa. Ank claimed shooting at Insomnia? So there *is* a missing kill if Ank is town?

-Cerb

No.

[Ankamius]

Fucked if I know!

[Ankamius]

Fucked if I know!

I asked if you killed insomnia and you said you did?

Where did this happen?

[Ankamius]

I'm annoyed at Insomnia because he literally outed himself as scum in the PT, which convinced me to change my action last night to something that has given me no value.

Did you kill him?

Lul also does that mean you're another JOAT

Yup.

This?

I actually missed the question completely.

[Ankamius]

Oh, that was a joke.

[Ankamius]

Honestly, I'd be okay with lynching boon entirely because it's boon.

[Ankamius]

If anyone wants extra kudo points with me, give me a list of VCs with extras filled in where there was a stretch without any. I'll love you forever.

[Ankamius]

hi

[Ankamius]

ftr before anybody asks, I no actioned.

[Ankamius]

I have tomorrow off so I'll try to do an actual solve then

don't flashlynch thx

[Ankamius]

on the other hand, I want Titus' reads first because if I'm basically guaranteed to be the lynch, I actually just won't bother

it's functionally incorrect to out the rest of my cards and if that's enough to lynch me, then frankly just do it because I doubt laying out all my cards will save me anyways

[Ankamius]

Ftr Titus

Before you start tunneling, I hope you realize that me killing insomnia into amrun can only mean that my team is fine with me dying. With this much pressure mounting on my slot with how bad it looks, there's no other reason to start culling my own shields.

[Ankamius]

Interesting.

I will have more thoughts later. Do. Not. Flash. Lynch.

[Ankamius]

They should be out of blocks if I am correct. Despite TSE being wrong on Chemist, I still put stock in his all joats theory.

What are all the claims currently?

[Ankamius]

As an extra, roughly at what point did Bitmap start to gain traction?

[Ankamius]

I'm more hoping for a rough estimate on the page number.

[Ankamius]

Successful action on Ank, by the way, with a positive result.

Err, negative result. Sorry. She is not what my role detects for. That is a positive thing, hence the mix up.

Why me?

[Ankamius]

I'm more hoping for a rough estimate on the page number.

Somewhere between 3775 and 5504. The first vote came on Bitmap at 4291 from AaronFrost.

Thank you, I'll look for this later.

[Ankamius]

How many players are alive currently?

[Ankamius]

N3 targeted Ank because she’s suspicious AF

Why?

[Ankamius]

Espe is one of my two picks for scum right now, but I'm not committing to that without checking some things first.

[Ankamius]

Oh, so I only need five locktowns.

Nice.

[Ankamius]

I have only four.

Dang.

[Ankamius]

Oh, if I assume I get mislynched, I actually need six.

[Ankamius]

Me
Hectic
Oka
RR
Pine
SW

You know Pine's role, correct?

[Ankamius]

Interesting. I might know what it is then.

That's probably town if I'm right.

[Ankamius]

Pine, why are you scumreading me?

[Ankamius]

He's sadly town.