Mini Normal 2125: Chiptune Mafia [The End]

[Taly]

I'm the only person openly entertaining NDMath-Blake town-town. Mmmmm....

{Insert quote about it being really hard to entertain an idea without accepting it.}

I don't vibe with this statement. I'm evaluating the wagons.

@Taly I put stock into convincing people I'm town when I'm being voted, otherwise I put in essentially none.

My issue is that I don't see much stock placed elsewhere, you went quickly from townreading

Blake

to scumreading her, but haven't really pushed beyond that.

Churros, does my read on you impact your read on me at all? Whether I scumread or townread you.

It's townier for you to revert on town reading me rather than flaking on me here, although I never expected scum!you to keep hard pushing me when I opened dialogue.

I think you subconsciously would know it would look forced and you would flake a bit on your read on me and maybe return to it on a later day or try to make me TR you so you can NK me and look good.

Short answer: Not really.

Long asnwer: Kinda but still not really yet.

I'm trying to find people to work with, not have people towncase me.

I could see Math scum sure.

But I've trouble with his partners if Taly isn't exactly one. If Taly isn't scum who would be Math partners anyway.

I hard TR Paragon, it's my main read

I think Eyesott has terrible posts but I still town read how he approached pops

I mostly town read Ame, even though Fire presence so far has been a bit underwhelming even for him.

I don't get any bad pings from Allo and his interactions with Math doesn't look SvS.

Blake is...probably not a Math partner.

If Taly isn't scum with Math this game just doesn't make sense from a mathematical POV for me for scum!Math with a 3-man team. I don't feel as good about a Taly/Math solve though as I did before. I think one of them might be likely scum at this gamestate but their interactions are kinda "huh" for buddies the more I think about it.

Math/Something_Smart would be a more reasonable solve but what's the probability of only 2 scum or 2 scum + traitor anyway?

In the worst case scenario, we still gain information from a NDMath townflip, since it changes the course of what the scumteam are doing this game. It's better to have that information earlier rather than later if there isn't a strong reason why NDMath should not be the lynch today.

I don't think that looking directly for associatives is the strongest course of action at this stage, regardless. If we have confirmation that NDMath is indeed scum, then we can look into associatives more tomorrow.

I don't think we can afford a mislynch, so I'm having trouble vibing with the idea of

"if

NDMath

is town, we have information"

I'm really trying to follow what you believe the scumteam is doing this game but I get the idea that it's problematic if you voice that, so I need a more elaborate breakdown of the gamestate or more sound reasons to scumread and lynch

NDMath

.

Mmm, that may change. Haven't felt anything overtly scum-indicative.

S_S

pings me more for lack of content,

NDMath

because of his lackluster D2 posting, and

Alo

also had net 0 to discuss when there was plenty of content to.

Part of my quick townreading of

Blake/Churros

is that I don't see why scum would still be in the limelight if town has been pretty much cannibalized each other this game so far.

And there's just so much opportunity for

Blake/Churros

to scumread, misrep, or dismiss the other people's POV but they're working cohesively last page.

So yeah, my reads are becoming PoE based, and it makes sense given the gamestate read where

Blake/Churros

are town since we're the most vocal.

Are you feeling okay, Taly?

This post doesn't feel like you at all.

No.

I don't like that

NDMath

puts a lot of stock into convincing others that he's town, but I like his reasoning to vote

Blake

since it feels odd that

Blake

is confident with her reads in the event that her only notable scumread D1 flipped town. 1791 I do find his

Paragon

progression weird as it did go from town to scum very quickly (as

Alo

noted very early in his ISO), I don't think

NDMath

has put much stock into explaining it, or trying to, so his desire in keeping my townread on him feels a bit like AtE. 519 565

I like that

Blake

has awareness of the gamestate and is working with slots she scumreads (

Churros

), but I don't like that she threw

Alo

into her same D1 lynchpool after voicing that he's a read that she'd defend D1 1365 1639. I think her

NDMath

vote is more defensive versus gamesolve-oriented because it's based around scumreading him off the gamestate versus any particular action. I know the points I make about

Blake

are specific to her abilities playstyle-wise, so it's hard to gauge what's AI.

I'm the only person openly entertaining

NDMath-Blake

town-town. Mmmmm....

Taly, are you scum?

Problem:

I'm having a horrible time following anyone's judgment here, nor have people understood mine.

Solution:

Voice my thought process unfiltered and see how people respond.

[Taly]

I don't know how to be clearer if I tried.

I'm townhunting so I can build a solve with town, not just because I'm having trouble with any clear solves on the game right now, but also to promote town cohesion.

[Taly]

I think I need a meta rework after this game, I depend too much on people's willingness to initiate and approach me... and people to form reads similarly to me, through cases and details.

It doesn't help that my content does change tonally like

Blake

said - and IRL has been... not the greatest. I miss January... I'm also doing hydra-withdrawals, so I can't second-guess my thinking so much this game and yield a constructive response since nobody is my sounding board.

Might do what

Blake

does and use alts to help develop different playstyles.



I don't see the wagons changing so regardless of alignment, everyone feels set about this.

Blake

, that was why I was sorting both you and

NDMath

1888 the way I was. I think your response of suspecting me notes more that you're still actively solving other than listing people to lynch. I didn't get as much of a favorable response as

NDMath

.

I'll probably L-1 soon. I wished to have more thoughts from

Paragon/Eyestott/S_S

but pulling teeth hasn't given me much read clarity this game.

[Taly]

Alo is my rationale for Blake-Churros interaction being T-T poor? Blake changing her view on the slot based on who she believes it to be feels town indicative on her part for a few reasons:
1) She gave no hint to who she thought it was, this means she resolved the read independent of anyone's POV but her own, and I don't think that's easily faked as scum.
2) Even if she were to fake it, she's good at understanding the gamestate, her not getting caught up with her Churros' scumread + his pushing on her and reevaluating him is oriented to bringing the game together.
3) Her raising her level of suspicion on me makes sense in a world where Churros is town. Her reads revolve around what she thinks scum is doing, and thus far the narrative she finds is that - if any scum exists in (Churros/Taly/Paragon) - it is only one. This is consistent to her solve.

Churros for other reasons:
1) He has reason to still come for this slot but has reevaluated his reads. Also, it would've made little sense for him to create a Fuzzy-Taly scumteam solve WoD1 when he knew Fuzzy would flip town.
2) Has pushed Blake but there doesn't feel as much fuel there at the moment, I think his lack of impact against his scumread more likely comes from town ina. Gsmestate where 2 wagons remain with little resistance but little change on them.
3) He's entertaining multiple solves, but he's not jumping on anyone. His questioning feels more investigative than combative. I don't receive an opportunistic vibe here.

I will say, I still have reservations with both of their posts this dayphase but the world where I see these two as scum (and you) is lower than every other slot in this game.

I even want to say Paragon is also in the same group, but I don't see enough of their posting to dig into the progression of their POV so its partially based off what my other townreads are thinking.

[Taly]

Alo is my rationale for Blake-Churros interaction being T-T poor? Blake changing her view on the slot based on who she believes it to be feels town indicative on her part for a few reasons:
1) She gave no hint to who she thought it was, this means she resolved the read independent of anyone's POV but her own, and I don't think that's easily faked as scum.
2) Even if she were to fake it, she's good at understanding the gamestate, her not getting caught up with her Churros' scumread + his pushing on her and reevaluating him is oriented to bringing the game together.
3) Her raising her level of suspicion on me makes sense in a world where Churros is town. Her reads revolve around what she thinks scum is doing, and thus far the narrative she finds is that - if any scum exists in (Churros/Taly/Paragon) - it is only one. This is consistent to her solve.

Churros for other reasons:
1) He has reason to still come for this slot but has reevaluated his reads. Also, it would've made little sense for him to create a Fuzzy-Taly scumteam solve WoD1 when he knew Fuzzy would flip town.
2) Has pushed Blake but there doesn't feel as much fuel there at the moment, I think his lack of impact against his scumread more likely comes from town ina. Gsmestate where 2 wagons remain with little resistance but little change on them.
3) He's entertaining multiple solves, but he's not jumping on anyone. His questioning feels more investigative than combative. I don't receive an opportunistic vibe here.

I will say, I still have reservations with both of their posts this dayphase but the world where I see these two as scum (and you) is lower than every other slot in this game.

I even want to say Paragon is also in the same group, but I don't see enough of their posting to dig into the progression of their POV so its partially based off what my other townreads are thinking.

I'm going to take the long way round in answering your question. I'm sure that I've mentioned that I have difficulty thinking in associatives. Initially, it's important to note that I have difficulty reconciling a Blake/NDMath team. I was reading them scummy independently, but a lot of that carried over from Day 1. At this moment, based on Day 2 NDMath is more scummy than Blake. I think her points about NDMath are well taken, and his flip on his read on her does not track. And I think her 1843 and 1883 are solve-type posts that give me strong Town vibes. Her 1v1 with Churros doesn't mean a whole lot to me principally because they both seem to know each other from before and, quite frankly, they are on a different level than I am. That's one of the reasons I indicated at the start of the day that I was having trouble sorting Blake and Churros and would have more on them but never got back to it. I was having a difficult time following their dialogue and even on re-read I can't quite get my head around it. You may be right about her fingering you in that Churros/Taly/Paragon grouping, but, again, I need someone to draw me a flowchart when it comes to analysis of this type. I'm not the type of person to tell you I agree with something when it's because I don't understand it. Maybe you could dumb it down for me a bit.

Blake

-scum has 0 to gain from constructing a narrative that incriminates her, or have her buddies killed without reason. Anything otherwise (her intentionally bussing all partners) would be both a stretch to surmise right now, and a nightmare scenario.

If she's saying that all scum of this game are most likely within

(Alo/S_S/NDMath/eyestott/

Fuzzy

)

(Based off her D1 AND D2 pools)

And that there's a maximum of 1 scum within

(Churros/Taly/Paragon/

Luca

/

Pops

)

- IF any, but isn't pursuing this. (idfk about

FB

tbh)

There's a strong chance she's not bussing in the first group as scum. (Like you said,

Blake/NDMath

is improbable as S-S.)
But as

Blake

-town, these reads are genuine. So here's the thing:

Churros-Blake

doesn't feel it to me based on - mostly - how

Blake

responded to someone voting her, and not the lynch she's pushing for. She had a scumread on

Churros

and could've easily loped him into a team with

NDMath

but didn't.

Taly-Blake

is just not true. This can be argued, sure, but nope.

Paragon-Blake

is the only reality that makes most sense, but I'm feeling

Paragon

is likelier town here, so that's not a reality I'm exploring.

Based off my other reads and seeing potential worlds of her partners, I don't think she's likely scum with the gamestate she proposes that this game has.

Which leads me to the conclusion

Blake

is town.

I had been reading Churros null Day 1, and that stayed pretty constant. Like you, I don't understand why a scum!Churros would push a Taly/Fuzzy team, but I didn't really catch the supposed partner slip thing to begin with and wasn't too worried about it anyway since I had you as a Town read. I'm not sure why he's still voting Blake right now.

I get the impression from 1848 that it has something to do with the lack of posting that's occurring. There just doesn't seem to be a lot happening. I tried yesterday, weakly, to get him to join me on NDMath, but there wasn't any interest, but I think there may be some today if I read 1849 correctly. That doesn't sound opportunistic to me

.

I agree with the bolded.

So in the end, I don't see anything that prevents a TvT between Blake and Churros. They both scum read NDMath to a certain extent, and it seems as if they were both scum, their 1v1 would be time consuming to script. In addition, they both appear experienced enough that they're going to be aware of potential manipulation. I also don't get the sense from their interactions on Day 2 that either has been pocketed. To the contrary, I think that it's very likely that it wouldn't take much for either to scum read the other. 1831 and 1842 kind of tell me it's a precarious situation (even with the declarative nature of 1842), but it very well could be TvT.

Do you think S-S is possible between them at all here?

[Taly]

Fuck yeah, I think I just logic'd my way into getting a decent grasp on this game.

I'm smart and rationale

[Taly]

There's a strong chance she's not bussing in the first group as scum. (Like you said, Blake/NDMath is improbable as S-S.)

Like I said in my

Y'shtola

ISO, I have a hard time seeing

Blake

as scum but not partnered with

Paragon/

Pops/Luca

/Ame (FB)

At the moment it's looking more like

Churros/Paragon/FB (maybe)

, but I'm less sure of a lynch off this idea here.

[Taly]

both scum

VOTE: NDMath

NDMath

already made the conclusion that there's 2 mafia in 1802, what made you L-1 him when he said it here?

What I want verified on his recent posting is a bit more details on his readslist, and what

Blake

is doing that's similar to what

Pops

did.

[Taly]

In a day or 2 I'll joint iso paragon and wiisp/S_S and see if that makes sense as the scum team.

What about

Blake/Paragon

team?

And I strongly discourage anyone's hammer before you post the assessment, and a claim at some point.

[Taly]

And I strongly discourage anyone's hammer before you post the assessment, and a claim at some point.

Scratch that, if someone hammers before either and especially both, we will have a problem.

[Taly]

Oh wait, you mentioned

Blake+Paragon

, hmm

Churros

, can you explain your

Paragon

townread more?

[Taly]

I can get behind this solve.

I can see the suspicion up to this point on me being less scum-led - if at all - by your viewpoint,

Blake

.

I TvT 3 times D1

(Pops/Churros/Paragon)

, defend a solid and correct townread that is lynched

(Fuzzy)

- the other being scum that buddies me

(NDMath)

, and the following frustration lead to me question the current wagons D2 with the NKs being slots I started resolving the most EoD1 - so I'm both a poor NK target, and someone who'd get mislynched by scum D2.

Everybody's interaction with me starts make me more sense, thinking that 2 lynchbait people I've towncased had a correct and incorrect read, and I voted wrong.

Which, sounds very likely, since I typically do get buddied/pocketed by someone AND towncase a mislynchbaity player in about every single town game I make it past N1.

With this narrative, I've consistently voted or pushed wrong this game, and the good reads/points that I have made had little, if any, impact.

Makes sense why I've felt that I had a poor grasp on the game.

[Taly]

Makes a lot more sense why

Luca

was a scum NK.

And it makes me less sure of

Eyestott

scum since he pointed this out. 1820

UNVOTE:

I'd hammer but

Alo's

expressed intent and

NDMath's

promised content beforehand, so I'll wait for that.

[Taly]

so I'm both a poor NK target, and someone who'd

not

get mislynched by scum D2.

Blegh, I need to edit my posts more.

This adds to the gamestate

Blake

states.

[Taly]

It's essentially the posts in 725. Note, I've noticed far fewer posts of that nature since I made that post. Though, I can see town!Taly being discouraged to show emotion/personality since he's being scumread for it, and I do apologise if that is the case, Taly!

I just don't have this large of an emotional range as scum, even if I tried.

I don't get so riled or soothed in such a short manner of time as scum because I have 0 reason to when I know a game's outcome before an event happens.

As town, I don't get this luxury. For an example, in my eyes:
If

NDMath

is town, this vindicates my original read on this slot and a major problem since 2 people I've towncased are now lynched, and I either had a change of heart on or had to make a decision to lynch based on nobody agreeing with me.
If

NDMath

is scum, this verifies the narrative that 1 of my towncases have buddied me for whatever reason, and distorts my idea of who else could be scum since I genuinely believed at some point this person's posting was town.

My core perception of this game is changed, that's why it's either really hard for people to read me, or very easy to. I'm simply more calculcated as scum, and even fall into a predisposed subset of emotions within a scumgame that acclimates to the plist and not my personal views that evolve over-time:

Here are my

scum

games, some are in a hydra. Tai is my other head.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=82289 (Hydra,

Tai

head)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=79036 (Hydra... I was a fucking traitor here, the bane of my existence.)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=76341 (I was a fucking traitor for the first time and I couldn't deal.)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=76098 (Perfect mafia win.)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=76118 (Multi-ball where I was fucking NKed by the other scum faction for being thought of as a traitor.)

Yes, the

NDMath

situation above is WIFOM, just as other ideas I've proposed this game, but it's how my brain works.

It's also a reason why it's hard for people to read me early-game as opposed to late, and why I often last long in games as town because scum can't attach a clear narrative to how I'll behave.

Here are some of my

town

games, the tone changes drastically at different points of the game, from pure solving to screaming-in-all-caps:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=75347 (High-functioning town)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=76441

(Tonally most unique game as town)

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10750432 (High-functioning town)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10632037
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=75869 (My LARGEST emotional range in a game outside of this one, probably.)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=79447 (Low-functioning town like this game, I flaked from stress.)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=78296 (Another low-functioning town game where I ended up flaking.)

(Moral of the story, being a Traitor is my life story as mafia and FUCK that... I can see why

Blake

is suspicious that I'm traitor here, but nope.)

I'm mid-functioning town here, maybe closer to low. I've had some

"I don't know if I can continue solving"

moments here.

[Taly]

VOTE: NDMath
Should’ve done this earlier. This ones for you, Luca.

I thought this could be a potential bus in the event that NDMath flips scum. It felt to me as if scum!eyestott was annoyed he wasn't earlier on the wagon for more credit.

What do you think of

eyestott's

response to my vote early this dayphase?

-

both scum

VOTE: NDMath

NDMath already made the conclusion that there's 2 mafia in 1802, what made you L-1 him when he said it here?

"I'm tempted to try to work with this assumption" is different from taking it as a given without even mentioning it.

What is this supposed to be pointing out?

There's no reason to delay claiming except if you need to confer with your scumbuddy. (I'd say scumbuddies, but you already slipped there were only two of you.)

UNVOTE:

I mean it could be, but for that to be the case NDMath has to be aware of the possibility that 3 mafia could exist and willfully ignore it, something which he could do as either alignment.

Of course I'm not convinced it's a slip, but it's possible, and for it to be a slip he has to have not realized or remember that 3 scum is possible.

I don't follow this, you L-1'd

NDMath

off of a perceived slip, and unvoted because you second-guessed it?

Was the purpose of the vote to push a claim? But even then, you didn't outright acknowledge his claim.

[Taly]

I don't follow this, you L-1'd NDMath off of a perceived slip, and unvoted because you second-guessed it?

I L-1'd NDMath because I was bored and disengaged and thought he was probably scum. I unvoted because he seemed like he wanted to talk, so I tried to talk to him and wanted to make sure the day didn't end before we could. I still scumread him just as strongly as I did before, but I do want to talk to him now.

Was the purpose of the vote to push a claim? But even then, you didn't outright acknowledge his claim.

Not per se. I was aware it was L-1 but I didn't vote specifically because it was L-1.

So what are you doing while you stall for him to talk?

Taly's question about eyestott's response led me to skim eyestott's ISO. I could see a possibility there, especially with him disappearing. That was a weird response to Taly's vote. I generally don't like to do annotated ISOs, but I'm going to pull a few posts that stand out to me.

For someone who hasn't posed any vote this dayphase, I figured you'd have done an ISO or two by now...

Don't be alarmed; I know I'm probably just losing my sanity and they're not really talking to me, but living in ignorance believing they're still here is bliss.

What do you think of eyestott's response to my vote early this dayphase?

popsofctown raised a good point on this. The fact he'd been keeping track of whether anyone has voted him this game, and was aware of the fact that that was the first time anyone had voted him is slightly scum-indicative. She believes scum are more likely to remember/care about such a detail. Fair enough, popsofctown, fair enough.

What's keeping you from voting him?

___

In retrospect, it's hard to voice my townread on

Churros

since he hasn't been present much nor has he worked on top of the thread's recent thoughts. I really need him back in this thread to see his opinion of

Blake's

solve.

This is currently mine.

Blake-Paragon-Churros-Alo
S_S-Fire
NDMath-eyestott

It feels dissatisfying. But, while

NDMath's

frustration/apathy may be genuine, it feels more scum-indicative since he presented about half the plist as potential scum. Since his POV of convincing others that he's town is sympathetic, I don't see anything beyond that since that's the major drive of his ideas.

I will say, with an

NDMath

townflip, half of my top townreads will become my top scumreads. So. I'm a bit done waiting. If

Fire

is just going to flake to death and

Churros

is nowhere to be seen, I see little reason on dragging this day out.

[Taly]

it feels more scum-indicative since he presented about half the plist as potential scum.

Blake-Paragon-Churros-Alo
S_S-Fire
NDMath-eyestott

I will say, with an NDMath townflip, half of my top townreads will become my top scumreads.

I am very confused. Even before you contradicted yourself.


I'm thinking S_S might have to be town here. I can't think of a reason for him to unvote me as scum, when it's quite simple for scum!him to let me die, and I see no way it would really come back to bite him.

I genuinely cannot see more than two realities at the moment.

Either my readslist is backwards, or it's not. I think scum exists in some form on both wagons, whether the wagon is on scum or scum is on it - or both.

[Taly]

Typing this post gave me some energy!

So what are you doing while you stall for him to talk?

Playing the game? I mean I don't expect him to take forever to respond...

It seems disingenuous that you've stated that you'll follow

Blake's

read or at least solve her based on the accuracy of her sort, yet don't follow through with voting

NDMath

, or push anyone else that has stated numerous opinions about her solve.

it feels more scum-indicative since he presented about half the plist as potential scum.

Blake-Paragon-Churros-Alo
S_S-Fire
NDMath-eyestott

I will say, with an NDMath townflip, half of my top townreads will become my top scumreads.

I am very confused. Even before you contradicted yourself.


I'm thinking S_S might have to be town here. I can't think of a reason for him to unvote me as scum, when it's quite simple for scum!him to let me die, and I see no way it would really come back to bite him.

There's literally two narratives based on what I'm seeing this game and neither give much clarity without a flip:
-My current townreads are accurate and they believe I've been buddied or townreading scum this game.
-My scumreads are actually town which I've second-guessed on, and I'm being played hard while being mislynchbaited D3.

Neither reality gives me good vibes, so, my reads may be fickle.

And

S_S

is a player that is often passive, and my fear with him is that he's only really solving players that he already knows.

(He's only given opinions about me or Blake exclusively.)

So it's less noticeable for him to assign a non-committal stance on the current wagons this game without actually sorting individuals. He may be sorting you now, but I'm not convinced of a town POV here.

I genuinely cannot see more than two realities at the moment.

Either my readslist is backwards, or it's not. I think scum exists in some form on both wagons, whether the wagon is on scum or scum is on it - or both.

However, I'd like to clarify this a little more. Does your readslist being backwards hinge on Blame Belladonna being scum?
How does your read on eyestott change if NDMath is town and Blake Belladonna is scum?

Not 100%, but I'd feel less confident in her being town and would definitely push her if I survive. But now that I think this aloud, I don't think

Blake

would gamble like this as scum? I mean, I can see one or two realities, but that's solely based on how N2 goes.

I remember someone asking about my TR on Paragon and it's rather simple. All the reasons everyone was scum reading him for in LyLo were silly pranks that I feel he tried to use to read other players or create reactions while not really highlighting the town process behind doing those things as lamist scum would likely do.

He voluntarily hurt his standing in the game to try reading other players. I don't think I've seen scum ever make that kind of play during my years playing mafia. I feel scum!Paragon would at some point try to take some kind of credit or highlight his thought process behind the silly lies but as much as I waited for that play, it never came.

The more I keep glancing back at my 1v1's, I really am starting to see the reason why

Paragon

viewed my push as scum.

In a

pops

-town world, her viewpoint of faking a posting restriction to defend a townread as well as find another townread through the division (

eyes

) feels much more town-indicative of

Paragon

- part of my reason for scumreading him was centered around my

Pops

tunnel.

And tbh, I abhor my reads D1 in retrospect - especially with the idea that

Fuzzy

was also town - so I'm feeling better about

Paragon

for the moment.

In fact I think this is more interesting

VOTE: SS

I'm not sure if I already said it somewhere but I'm not as confident on Taly anymore and I'm putting that into the fridge for now.

Regardless of NDmath's alignment, I don't think SS is likely town here, and if NDmath is town, I would say Blake is a slot to consider. But Blake/SS as partners doesn't mesh well for me.

Something that got my attention in SS posts was his "I'll BoP Blake on this read" while voting ND. Because if NDmath is town, he's setting up Blake as a mislynch in D3, while if NDmath is scum, it means Blake is probably town, and mathematically needs to have scum in [Taly, SS], which I think right now he's the worse slot.

Saying he'll vote NDmath for BoP rather than a proper vote also:

1. Makes it possible for him to join the wagon with little previous or current justification
2. Makes it possible for him to switch wagons from his hypothetical partner which he coincidentally already unvoted.

For the reasons above if Taly is town, SS is probably never town here, and the remaining two scum in [NDmath, Blake, Fire, Eyesott] doesn't matter right now to me.

What makes the bolded a reason to vote

S_S

and not

NDMath

?

Blake

has aligned an in-depth viewpoint about the gamestate pointing to the implications of

NDMath's

flip but you haven't commented on that.

I'm not keen on being shelved by you when you keep placing me in SvT dichotomies with other players as you do here and 1849. I get that it's not new in how you handle this slot 1205 but:

Churros, does my read on you impact your read on me at all? Whether I scumread or townread you.

It's townier for you to revert on town reading me rather than flaking on me here,

although I never expected scum!you to keep hard pushing me when I opened dialogue. I think you subconsciously would know it would look forced and you would flake a bit on your read on me and maybe return to it on a later day or try to make me TR you so you can NK me and look good.

Short answer: Not really.

Long asnwer: Kinda but still not really yet.

With you proposing a reality that me townreading you is a setup to NK you - and your read of me does not matter based on my read progression of you - it is

incredibly

easy to manufacture a push on me as scum in spite of

S_S

or

NDMath's

alignment here, and your above attitude to this slot plays into that.

If you want to tackle the suspicion on me while giving a solve that shows you believe in it, then sort me or work with me here. I think you're likelier town AND I follow the argument of

S_S

-scum here, but can you exercise teamwork if I'm not your favorite lynch anymore? I don't care if you townread me, but if we're both entertaining realities where we are both town, we should act on it.

I see we are hitting a situation where somebody's scumlist is one step away from myself and my scumreads.

Did you anticipate this?

-

On another note

I’m here y’all. Expect lots of activity in the next 3 hours once I wake up properly. Sorry for my bad playstyle today.

I want to hear this before I decide a lynch here.

[Taly]

It seems disingenuous that you've stated that you'll follow Blake's read or at least solve her based on the accuracy of her sort, yet don't follow through with voting NDMath, or push anyone else that has stated numerous opinions about her solve.

But I did vote NDMath...

And any thoughts around the wagons or a readslist?

Okay, here we go!

Spoiler: Excuses Schmexcuses

I injured my back at the gym about a month ago and it's been getting worse ever since, but the past few days I've been pretty much bedridden. Then we also had rain so bad that part of our house flooded, so not fun either. I've also just been feeling quite disheartened about this game. Quite a few of you have called me out today for being a bad player, which is much harder to deal with emotionally than being scumread, especially with everything else going on in my life.

Ask me questions about things y'all, and I'll engage with you as best I can.

Readslist. Go.

Also, do you think your reply to my vote on you was weird? 1959

[Taly]

And any thoughts around the wagons or a readslist?

My readlist is like
you
blake?
everyone
churros
ndmath

I still want to hear from NDMath about why Blake is scummy.

Mmmm... Then what are you wanting to gain from conversation with

NDMath

when he's your strongest scumread?

Also, I went to townreading

Churros

for his reaction EoD1, I mentioned it earlier this dayphase. If you think he's scum, can you tell me how I can be misled here?

Also, do you think your reply to my vote on you was weird? 1959

Just looked at it. Nope. I wouldn't change what I said. Then again, I have the benefit of actually knowing my own headspace.
Do you just want a hierarchy for the readslist, or in depth explanations for each one?

Explanations if you can manage.

Taly what do you mean by teamwork?

1)

I see 2 worlds of how this game plays out at the moment, I'm either wrong in my original townreads and my current townreads (You/

Blake

) are correct - or there's potential scum outside of

(S-S/NDMath/Eye)

that I'm currently townreading. I think it's a wise idea to focus on town cohesion at the moment - which is what I meant by teamwork - because my understanding of this game right now heavily implies that I need to reevaluate or have correctly reevaluated now, and I need this both understood and a point of discussion.

2)

By teamwork, people who townread each other - or are not pushing each other - should hash out a lynch and come to some consensus for the game's flow, as well as incorporate good faith with their current reads. This mentality makes reading D2 in retrospect much less fluid, regardless of who is flipped and what their alignment is.

I'm like, momentarily open to dialogue and properly answering questions or giving feedback to you. What exactly more would you expect from me and why?

1)

What is your perspective on

Me/Eye

interaction?

2)

Is

Blake

misguided to push for

NDMath's

lynch?

3)

NDMath

claimed vanilla town, does this change how you read this slot?

I like that, along with

Paragon

,

Alo

, and

Blake

, you're providing in-depth reasoning for your thought process and so gamesolving with you leads to greater clarity than when I've spoken or mentioned

S_S/Fire/NDMath/Eye

and I think this is an overall alignment indicative behavior based on the gamestate. Hence you 4 being my definitive townreads.

And my push to interact with you outside of a 1v1 that's not productive regardless of our reads of the other at the moment.

Reads:

Town
Myself
Aloratom
Taly

Null
Firebringer
Churros
Paragon

Scum
Something Smart
Blake
NDMath

So, you come with the idea that

S_S/Blake/NDMath

have bussed each other this dayphase, in some form or another. Can you explain why?

As well as, why

NDMath

is the best lynch here? Does it follow

Blake's

logic?

Taly, could you also address how your read on eyestott changes based on NDMath's flip? Is your scumread on him an independent or associative one?

Before 1994, my read was most entirely on

Eye

by himself for having such a consistent presence in the thread will literally no substance, but yes, the quick-vote onto

NDMath

could be interpreted as a bus, especially after I had voted

Eye

at this point. 1821

Though, I'm not pushing this train of thought at the moment because 1994 displays a mentality unlike the majority of what the thread has voiced so far, and I'm curious to know why.

[Taly]

I have classwork but I will get to this sometime today.

[Taly]

Oh my god.

The 3 people I towncased D1 were all town.

(Fluffy 1490 - NDMath 1710 and 1712 - Blake 1347)

That's a fucking first.

Yet, I haven't been NKed because of this read accuracy, nor have I been hardpushed aside from

Churros

.

But

Churros

locked onto me before any of those towncases, so it's still harder to believe he's groupscum at worst.

+1 to Churros

.

So that means:

-Scum aren't shadowing my viewpoints this game or necessarily working to help improve them.
-Scum aren't worried about my reads in this game because plenty of people have discredited or rebuked my viewpoints on

Fuzzy/NDMath/Blake

.

(S_S never commented on 1551 and 1551 but acknowledged)

-

Fire

1607 -

Paragon (last in line here)

1638

Churros ISO D1

*Scum most certainly exist among the living players I linked posts of above.

The only person to come close to actually speaking to me about my ISOs was

Aloratom

. 1623

Reads That I Never Followed or Strongly or Directly Implied D1

-

Paragon

strong town.
-

Churros

town.
-

SS slot

scum.
-

eyestott

scum or strong town.
-

Ame slot

strong town.
-

Aloratom

scum.

There is a clear distinction in my reads on the remaining 6 slots.

I never gained traction on the people I didn't entertain as strong town. -1 to Paragon/Churros and eyestott/Ame slot

___

I suspect the team is a combination of TheFuzzyLogic99, NDMath, Something_Smart, and eyestott.

This player pool is really weak in that none of the players have taken too much of a stance (S_S and eyestott) or are comparatively inactive (

me and fuzzy

). I don't follow how you think all the 'loud' players can be town.

Important note for later this game.

In retrospect, I think town has cannibalized each other JUST as

Blake

surmised.

But

Fuzzy/NDMath

being the mislynches in an

S_S/Eyestott

pool feels like an incrimination of them.

However, I don't think

S_S

is groupscum. It's so odd that he'd

"LET'S BOP

BLAKE

"

and then

Blake

up and dies when she lynches town.

Also, I don't think

S_S

-scum has the desire to EVER face

me

-town late in the game.

So,

-1 S_S/-2 Eyestott

.

___

There's also another factor to consider.

VCA

I don't think I can possibly believe either

Fuzzy

or

NDMath

had all town on them.

Coincidentally, all the people that interacted with me in highest faith throughout this game AND were on these wagons, are all dead.

Pops/Fuzzy/NDMath/Blake/Luca

.

TheFuzzylogic99 (7 - LYNCH):

Blake Belladonna

, Churros,

NDMath

,

popsofctown

,

Taly

, eyestott,

Luca Blight

NDMath (2):, Paragon, Aloratom
popsofctown (1): TheFuzzylogic99

Not Voting:

Firebringer, Something_Smart

NDMath (5 - LYNCH):

Blake Belladonna

, Paragon, Eyestott, Aloratom, Battle Mage
Blake Belladonna (1): NDMath
Something_Smart (1): Churros

Not Voting: Taly, Something_Smart

Notice that only one flipped town was on the

NDMath

lynch and that was

Blake

who initiated it. I won't conclude further on what this means, as I am not sure just yet, but it is a good note.

Eyestott

voted wrong both times, and never actively pushed the person they were voting.

This is highly incriminating.

I also think

NDMath

was a setup mislynch a mile away after that

Fuzzy

flip, so

Paragon/Aloratom

are potential off-wagon scum trying to keep pressure on that slot D2.
Funnily enough,

S_S

was never on either lynch. I also don't entirely follow what this could mean. He certainly didn't combat anything or speak of a nuanced opinion against these lynches.

Churros

is off-wagon on one lynch. Really strong traitor or town, or criminally adept groupscum.

It's also damn-near impossible to read

Ame slot

because it has a fucking replacement per dayphase.

Looking at all of this together, unfiltered:

(I haven't read any posts D3 so far, I've been typing all of this up.)

Churros-Aloratom-S_S-Ame slot

must contain at least 2-3 town. 1-2 scum.
so

eyestott-Paragon

must contain at least 1 scum. I cannot see this TvT in any potential universe.

Fuck all of this if it's TvT.

Paragon

, why didn't

Fuzzy's

mislynch at least have you reevaluate

NDMath

? You jumped onto

Blake's

vibe quickly, and gave no thought more because you weren't around during the discussion. 1143 D1 / D2 1807 - 1972

You've had a GAMELONG scumread on a town-slot, man, one that the OTHER person you've hard-pushed in this game

(Me)

- has hard-defended.

Your other vote past 600 posts into this game is

Fuzzy

, the D1 mislynch that I towncased.

eyestott

, why haven't you at least attempted to read between the lines this game? You AGREED with me D1 about the

NDMath

being poor and was late to that

Fuzzy

vote, but just kept going along with the punches. 1558

___

I believe that the game is mostly solved at this point.

It's hard for me to believe Churros is scum.
It's hard for me to believe Paragon is scum.
As useless and incorrect as Firebringer is, I still believe Ame was significantly town.
Taly has strange posts that make me wonder if he's trying to maneuver around the town in an overexaggerated way, but it's more likely he's just town that is undergoing mental strain regarding this game.
Aloratom equates back to town after his posts today. I didn't like the way he handled the end of day yesterday, but I'm not certain that wasn't more than a fluke.

NDMath is scum.
I can see eyestott's confusion being either genuine or fake.
Something_Smart is hard to parse.

Whether there is two scum, three scum, or two scum and a traitor, I believe that any traitor would be either Taly or Firebringer. I'm not entirely aware of how traitors are handled in the normal queue, but I suspect that traitors endgame when all group mafia are eliminated, so I'm not too worried about this.

Two scum would make sense to me if town is relatively light on power. I know that normal games tend to be rather townsided by my standards, so killing three vanilla town in a game where there is likely 4-5 town PRs is rather unlikely. It makes more sense if town's power is condensed into a smaller amount of players. In this case, I feel Something_Smart is a more likely partner than eyestott, but I would not remove Aloratom from suspicion either.

I have an incredibly hard time believing

Paragon-Churros

are T-T here, so I wonder if

Blake's

was to validate a supposed townread.

Paragon

was less suspected or vocal than

Churros

around this time,

Churros

also protected

Paragon

more than the latter, so I still think

Paragon

may have likely been townbloc'ed incorrectly.

S_S/eyestott

were literally her second and third choices.

With the idea that

Paragon-Churros

aren't T-T, I don't think

S_S/eyestott

are S-S.

Aloratom's

been a shaky townread from her, so that was probably the most realistic T-T read in such an adverse gamestate to town.

Blake

may have believed

Fire/Me

were traitors; but she also believed this wasn't a huge problem since this - she and I also agree -

that traitors don't win when the mafia are gone (I've been a traitor twice before, and I've NEVER had the win condition to survive/win by myself.

By these means; Battle Mage Slot/Me were not lynch targets as long as Blake lived. I think this is strong evidence of Ame/Fire/Battle Mage-town.

___

Final Reads Before I Jump Into D3 and Read the many people trying to construct a narrative or gamesolve:

Ame-Aloratom

Churros-S_S

- T/T, T/S, S/S is the overarching question... I know

NDMath

believed T/T.

Either way, they don't feel like groupscum, so I'm EXTREMELY weary of lynching them here.

Paragon-eyestott

I'm not voting until I get a consensus in some form. Both to hear out everyone's POV, but also because if there's 3 scum, they can lolhammer anyone if 1 vote is posed.

[Taly]

We shouldn't vote straight away! Assuming the worst and 3 scum, it's LyLo; so we need to wary of quickhammers.

Current readslist:

Aloratom
Churros
Battle Mage
Taly
Something_Smart
eyestott

Blake Belladonna dying is slightly unexpected. Looking at her final readslist, it makes me feel better about there not being 2 scum in her town section, and slightly better about eyestott/Something_Smart being scum.
Also, you killed pops, Blake; how could you :c

HOW did you come to the conclusion that

Blake

killed

Pops

?

Do you LITERALLY have a case to outline why

Blake

NKed

Pops

?

Although, if there's a scum rolecop, she could've simply died due to being a confirmable PR (unless counterclaimed), that was checked by scum on a prior night.

Why are you covering up the NK on

Blake

THROUGH SETUP SPEC rather than game content and interactions?

This is a STRONG reach.

Can we massclaim?

Completely behind this!

Blake Belladonna has entered the hivemind. She's telling me to trust in her read of Churros, and put faith in her pool of scum. Luca Blight's been endorsing Blake's Churros read too.

Very well, friends.

What?

Aloratom

was not

Blake's

top townread by ANY margin here, but he's your highest.

So, why is he so up there? Because he followed your

NDMath

votes?

Can we massclaim?

Do you think that's a good idea? If there's any investigatives with info, they should say so, and ask for a massclaim with them going last.

Otherwise, I don't see the point of PRs outing themselves unless they're going to be lynched.

The answer is yes here.

Traitor crumbs:

I’m so excited to get back into mafia! Thanks everyone for playing with me, I don’t think I’ve met any of y’all before.
VOTE: Taly, I think you may be the exception! Do you remember me at all?

eyestott indicating he's Taly's traitor. Seems a little too risky in the event eyestott was ever lynched and flipped traitor.

Okay, that's the only one I could find actually.

P.S: I miss the tiger GiFs, Taly!

1)

Blake

didn't think I was a traitor, how am I groupscum here? You've followed her POV so much but yet not much at all.

2)

IF

EYE

is a traitor, WHY is he at the bottom of your readslist?

3)

So, I'm scum based off

eye's

post? ...You keep shelving a read on me throughout this whole game, but the first "crumbs" you throw out as a potential traitor implies I'm in a scumteam.

Why do you think there's definitively a traitor and a scumteam? Where is your read progression?

Can we massclaim?

Do you think that's a good idea? If there's any investigatives with info, they should say so, and ask for a massclaim with them going last.

Otherwise, I don't see the point of PRs outing themselves unless they're going to be lynched.

Me. I am an investigative with information.

OK, you're going last. I bar any votes at all until an entire massclaim has occurred.

Well then!

Is there a problem with you going now, or do you have reason to be last/later on?

...You literally just said that it's best for Investigatives to go last.

But

eye

claims to be an investigative role.

You ask if he has a reason to wait on claiming...

[Taly]

eyestott-Paragon must contain at least 1 scum. I cannot see this TvT in any potential universe. Fuck all of this if it's TvT.

I see TvT's described this way on a regular basis.

It took you 3 MINUTES to post this after I gave my reply. Did you spend ALL those 3 minutes reading?

If not, kindly reassess my 2073 and maybe I'll dim down my disappointment and irritation.

[Taly]

Eyestott should be last.

Eyestott

claimed investigative with information.

I want

Eyestott

to LIST THE ORDER of who claims, and everybody who doesn't follow this order, is scumclaiming.

[Taly]

Taly, Fuzzy's mislynch made me more confident in scum!NDMath, since he was the coutnerwagon and his posts didn't improve day 2 at all.

Why don't you think Something_Smart/eyestott can be both scum, given those were the two slots Blake Belladonna had in her scumpool?

...You never entertained my

NDMath

ISO.

So, you think

S_S/eye

are scum?

S_S-Me

groupscum and

eyestott

traitor? Is that what I'm getting from your posts?

I don't disregard

eye/S_S

to both be scum.

But I don't think

S_S

is groupscum based on my thoughts in 2073, and I have reason to believe he's town. How about you reread my posts that specifically address

S_S

, right?

Or enlighten me, how the 3 of us are scum in the reality you prompted?

[Taly]

Eyestott claimed investigative with information.

I want Eyestott to LIST THE ORDER of who claims, and everybody who doesn't follow this order, is scumclaiming.

Probably fine?

I don't really have strong feelings about the claim order.

Eyestott

claimed to have information, he has the most knowledge in the game in the reality that he's town.

No. I skim walls the first time I see them.

I'll read it in full, but I doubt that any reasoning is going to make me change my mind on you being possibly wrong there.

Please stop with the handwave dismissal, it feels nothing short of a discredit, and it's disingenuous at worst.

[Taly]

...that's a whole lot of questions, Taly.

Take your time, we got 10 days.

[Taly]

Ugh, you guys give me a headache.

[Taly]

Paragon

, why didn't

Fuzzy's

mislynch at least have you reevaluate

NDMath

? You jumped onto

Blake's

vibe quickly, and gave no thought more because you weren't around during the discussion. 1143 D1 / D2 1807 - 1972

You've had a GAMELONG scumread on a town-slot, man, one that the OTHER person you've hard-pushed in this game

(Me)

- has hard-defended.

Your other vote past 600 posts into this game is

Fuzzy

, the D1 mislynch that I towncased.

HOW did you come to the conclusion that

Blake

killed

Pops

?

Do you LITERALLY have a case to outline why

Blake

NKed

Pops

?

Although, if there's a scum rolecop, she could've simply died due to being a confirmable PR (unless counterclaimed), that was checked by scum on a prior night.

Why are you covering up the NK on

Blake

THROUGH SETUP SPEC rather than game content and interactions?

This is a STRONG reach.

-

Aloratom

was not

Blake's

top townread by ANY margin here, but he's your highest.

So, why is he so up there? Because he followed your

NDMath

votes?
-

1)

Blake

didn't think I was a traitor, how am I groupscum here? You've followed her POV so much but yet not much at all.

2)

IF

EYE

is a traitor, WHY is he at the bottom of your readslist?

3)

So, I'm scum based off

eye's

post? ...You keep shelving a read on me throughout this whole game, but the first "crumbs" you throw out as a potential traitor implies I'm in a scumteam.

Why do you think there's definitively a traitor and a scumteam? Where is your read progression?

Taly, Fuzzy's mislynch made me more confident in scum!NDMath, since he was the coutnerwagon and his posts didn't improve day 2 at all.

Why don't you think Something_Smart/eyestott can be both scum, given those were the two slots Blake Belladonna had in her scumpool?

...You never entertained my

NDMath

ISO.

So, you think

S_S/eye

are scum?

S_S-Me

groupscum and

eyestott

traitor? Is that what I'm getting from your posts?

I don't disregard

eye/S_S

to both be scum.

But I don't think

S_S

is groupscum based on my thoughts in 2073, and I have reason to believe he's town. How about you reread my posts that specifically address

S_S

, right?

Or enlighten me, how the 3 of us are scum in the reality you prompted?

[Taly]

Please stop with the handwave dismissal, it feels nothing short of a discredit, and it's disingenuous at worst.

What would you prefer I do?

You know, actually behave as if you locktown me and critically assess the post, or at least tell me why my conclusion indicates town/town within

Eye/Paragon

For the sake of transparency (which is the goal of this account): I really dislike these Taly posts, and I don't think his anger/frustration is genuine.

I HAVE ALL THE REASON FOR FRUSTRATION IF YOU READ MY POSTS.

Here you go again! The second I pushback on you, you retreat to this bullshit narrative that I'm feigning emotions and that you dislike my posts for NO elaborated reason!

You did it D1!

I pretty much don't understand any of the logic laid out in that post. As a result I don't agree with its conclusions. I don't think you've provided the necessary evidence for your claims, and the burden of proof is on you to provide more. It's not disingenuous for me to not be convinced.

So

S_S/Para

is the team? We'll see when we massclaim by

Eye's

decree.

[Taly]

I'm done talking here.

The second I open my mouth in this game I just hear:

"Your logic isn't sound"

-

"No, I don't think that's it"

or

"iS tAlY sCuM?

FUCK that entire narrative and if I get mislynched this game or if town loses then I absolve myself of guilt over ALL strategic error I've made this game.

[Taly]

Town should NEVER DISCOUNT a person's input like this, mafia is a TEAM GAME as BOTH alignments, and I'm laying my ENTIRE thought process down and it's being dismissed before it's given a PROPER REBUTTAL.

[Taly]

I don't even give a fuck if you think I'm town, IF YOU'RE TOWN, then reevaluate yourself.

PLEASE.

I need to log off for a bit. I'm getting way too riled up, but I'm not taking back a lick of what I said.

It's my truth, and anyone denying this is scumclaiming or gamethrowing.

[Taly]

I'll get to you

S_S

... but please be sure that's not all of what my wall amounts to in a response...

p-edit

you too,

Paragon

.

I'll get back to the GIFs, got waaay too beside myself a moment there.

[Taly]

Listen, before I unplug a little, I just have to say that I can be screaming all-caps in a game and it's never personal for me.

I like you guys, I'm just seeing the same issues in this game that are repeating themselves and if I don't force my perspective, the same results will happen D1 and D2.

I've put effort into this game, and it's wrong to let my emotions make me succumb to apathy, or drive others away.

So, separate personal feelings from my solving posts. Please and thank you.

My frustation is at game-you, not person-you, and my frustration is with game-everybody- not just you two,

SS/Paragon

.



Specifically when we're in potential lylo because I become pretty erratic when I enter lylo.

[Taly]

I am refraining from commenting on the current situation until claims have happened.

I'm taking this as a

"just do it"

.

2-Shot Bulletproof.

ugh, just save me for D2 man.

hopefully I bite an NK soon to save me from this shit, lord knows scum should.

These were my crumbs. Mixed in with my frustration, I wanted to lower the risk I survive to lylo, and I wanted to shield potential people I townread - so if scum shot me - no townie would die.

[Taly]

These were my crumbs. Mixed in with my frustration, I wanted to lower the risk I survive to lylo, and I wanted to shield potential people I townread - so if scum shot me - no townie would die.

Are you implying you thought there was a chance scum would target you 3 times - preventing you from surviving to LyLo? Or did you anticipate a strongman?

Oh, is the bulletproof an active rather than passive ability?

Passive. It just happens.

And no, I didn't think scum would necessarily target me 3 times.

But, if I heard a

"No NK happened tonight!"

then I would've immediately had a strong suspicion that I was a target.. I wanted that to happen.

And that's what I hoped for Other than the alternative.

[Taly]

But, if I heard a "No NK happened tonight!" then I would've immediately had a strong suspicion that I was a target.. I wanted that to happen.

It's part of a reason why I was doing vanity type wagons, and why I was looking deeply into the most wagoned people.

I genuinely had reason to believe they were town, but I played against the playerlist's narrative by pursuing my own reads.

I thought scum would consider me a lesser-controlled factor. This mentality fell off a little D2 because I lost touch on whether I was correct on my initial reads D1.

[Taly]

Basically, I NK baited myself D1 and failed terribly, causing my D2 performance to feel out-of-grasp of the gamstate.

That's why I clung to

Blake

when she implied I was wrong on my townreads AGAIN, somewhere.

[Taly]

Hypothetical question which I’m asking to promote discussion rather than for seeking advice:
If I were a vanilla townie, when would be the best/worst time to claim it?

Ha! You fools! ‘Twas not a hypothetical question, it was a crumb!
I’m a neopolitan.
Night one I targeted Luca, getting a VT result. So I was quite excited to hear this news.

Only to discover that not only was he dead, BUT ANOTHER VT TOO. 3/3 of the dead people were VTs by the time I said fuck at the start of D2. My first post was representative of me thinking “ugh, I’m probably the only investigative, and I’m likely gonna have no useful results.”

Night 2 I decided the same strategy of investigating a strong townread that I can get behind if I can clear them as a VT. I investigated Taly, and got a “not a VT” result.

oh yay, you're town

eye

and yeah.

my PR was passive.

[Taly]

I’m fine with myself being tonight’s night kill because my lynching was pretty likely until this point.
Because now, the scum need to either kill me tonight so I can’t clear a townie for tomorrow, or hope that I get a non-informative result and bring a mislynch upon me.

so, wanna townbloc?

too tired to quote where i most said

alo/ame slot

were town, but i suggest you read it.

[Taly]

I’m fine with myself being tonight’s night kill because my lynching was pretty likely until this point.
Because now, the scum need to either kill me tonight so I can’t clear a townie for tomorrow, or hope that I get a non-informative result and bring a mislynch upon me.

no fair :/ ive wanted to be NKed all game

[Taly]

I’m fine with myself being tonight’s night kill because my lynching was pretty likely until this point.
Because now, the scum need to either kill me tonight so I can’t clear a townie for tomorrow, or hope that I get a non-informative result and bring a mislynch upon me.

so, wanna townbloc?

too tired to quote where i most said

alo/ame slot

were town, but i suggest you read it.

pagetop so

[Taly]

I’m fine with myself being tonight’s night kill because my lynching was pretty likely until this point.
Because now, the scum need to either kill me tonight so I can’t clear a townie for tomorrow, or hope that I get a non-informative result and bring a mislynch upon me.

so, wanna townbloc?

too tired to quote where i most said

alo/ame slot

were town, but i suggest you read it.

I am interested in maybe having a VT claim so I can force the scum to either kill myself, the townie who isn’t doing well at scumhunting, or risk having two confirmed townies tomorrow.

Taly, I’m willing to townbloc with you for the rest of D3.

hehe, i see some parallels to this convo and:

I'm paranoid of Blake because she's a really strong player. I'm still not entirely convinced she posted in my scum PT in apocalypse, it seems hard to believe.
To sort her correctly I want to try to pick at and guess at whether each of her reads are correct, or mistaken for reasons she genuinely believes that I can be confident she genuinely believes
For a high volume poster that becomes more important because that's the slot where her reads should trend the farthest away from rand
My last post was about Blake faking a townread on you, not about whether you're scum, it could definitely be a TMI.
I don't see why this is necessarily about you. Why is everything about you, Taly? You're getting a little myopic sometimes. Also you're no longer a cute Wooper and are only showing one eye so you are also cyclopic.

I guess I'll leave this alone, this line of thought goes directly against what I figured about your approach in 1665.

You can be town.

I think you might be town

taly/pops

D1 Arc completed

cHaRaCtEr DeVeLoPmEnT

Are we characters in a visual novel?
Is none of this real?
You're making me think about Ame
That's mean

[Taly]

Eyestott, you should choose the claim order now.

The reason I asked for a massclaim has been fulfilled by Taly claiming. I revoke my request.

Ok but it's LYLO so we need to be massclaiming anyway.

Taly, what do you think of S_S’ desire for a massclaim? Do you agree that a massclaim needs to happen?

think it's a good idea overall, regardless.

i dont think this game continues past D4 or N4 in any situation it ends, and we could be in lylo right now.

i was actually thinking about suggesting it this dayphase myself, but i didnt know the mentality of everyone coming in.

but i could be a little biased, my

2-shot BP

is practically useless now, but was already a bit useless post-N2 i'd figure.

[Taly]

Taly, what do you think of S_S’ desire for a massclaim?

I don't follow why he wants to massclaim but passed here:

Let's play Popcorn. Start us off, Something_Smart!

I'll pass. Let's see what eyestott says.

Felt defensive, but that could be town-indicative, still.

If he's strong on the idea that both of us are town, (him saying I'm town all game and that my assessment of

you/Para

indicates T-T), then I want to know why he's waiting for reactions.

Could be a playstyle difference, but when I saw your initiation I was like

"oh shit, let's clear some people"

, and that's not the reaction I felt from him or

Paragon

.

[Taly]

My mind is shattered if both eyestott and Taly are town,

but

Ame

is preaching the fact that eyestott's claim + recent posts have felt very genuine.

The bolded looks like a scumslip.

Ame slot

hasn't posted, they'd have no clue of the claim.

Taly, why'd you decide to claim first, given you were a PR which makes scum's life easier when claiming?

Risk assessment. I don't think I would've been an NK at this point in the game seeing as how you painted

Eye

to be MY traitor.

I figured the

"mounting suspicion"

Blake

noted of my slot would've finally bit me in the ass in how people interacted with me D3.

I also wanted to give the benefit of the doubt that, if

Eye

was truly town and I was misled on HIM, it was because he was a potential mislynch too - or someone scum would discredit since he has a lot of ammunition on him - so...

I figured claiming my role would break this game wide open. Helping me solve. Helping others solve me.

Why aren't you claiming?

[Taly]

It's always to my advantage to claim as late as possible, so scum have as little information as possible when claiming.

k, cool, whatever.

[Taly]

Taly, why'd you decide to claim first, given you were a PR which makes scum's life easier when claiming?

fuck, put wrong name.

my brain is tired. i said i was disconnecting from the game guys, damn it.

[Taly]

Basically, since I've been wrong in lylo before

I treated Eye claiming as coming from town I am pushing. I replied to his claim in good faith and it paid off.

[Taly]

I want to continue discussion

But its 9 PM here. I'm phoneposting because there is a SUPERCELL of storms hitting my state right now.

All power at home as shut off. I can hardly see.

I have to turn phone off.

Goodnight guys.

[Taly]

Don't worry about me. This isn't unusual where I live, especially in this time of year

[Taly]

Agreed 2150

OK, power is back, but maybe not for long.

Eye and I solving in D3 like:

I had to. Now I should actually sleep.

Goodnight for real!

[Taly]

We shouldn't vote straight away! Assuming the worst and 3 scum, it's LyLo; so we need to wary of quickhammers.

Current readslist:

Aloratom
Churros
Battle Mage
Taly
Something_Smart
eyestott

Blake Belladonna dying is slightly unexpected. Looking at her final readslist, it makes me feel better about there not being 2 scum in her town section, and slightly better about eyestott/Something_Smart being scum.
Also, you killed pops, Blake; how could you :c

Battle Mage + Taly + Something_Smart would be cool..

To address your "scumslip": Ame's part of my hivemind which currently includes {popsofctown, Luca Blight, Ame, Blake Belladonna}. It may prove problematic if Ame was scum however.

Go go, Something_Smart. So I can claim before I call it a night.

I've not wanted to mention this, but I do think the high replace out-rate from the Ame slot might be scum-indicative.

I just reISOed Aloratom a little while trying to look for reasons for him being scum, but it only shored up my townread.

Also VT

Are you playing based on the assumption that there's 2 or 3 scum?

The really big problem if eyestott is town, is that he will side with scum!Taly over anyone else if this is LyLo, which is slightly worrying, since we need all 4 town to be correct here if this is LyLo.

I am COMPLETELY confused by your read progression here.

1) Aloratom

is top-town but you had to reconsider him for some reason? For what?

2)

What do you mean by

S_S/Taly/BM

do you mean town or scum? Because you just had all 3 of us at the bottom of your readslist outside of

eyestott

and for you to address any townread on me but not

eyestott

is weird as fuck.

3)

But... it's even more odd regardless of your stance, because even though you've said

Eyestott

is potential scum at possibly 2 points in the above -

(you never really clarified)

- you just gave the alternative that I'm scum and he'll side with me?

Why aren't you trying to see WHY we townread each other? These posts are both dancing around a concrete stance on players without actually assessing us yourself.

And you never elaborated on your

BM slot

read. Like, probably ever? Now's a good time for you to start if you even believe there's a chance we're in lylo.

And ALSO - how am I groupscum?

The only killing non-scum role we know was a

1-shot VIG

and I'm a

2-shot BP

;

it's mechanically impossible for me to be groupscum here, and Blake never adhered to this idea on my slot YET you perpetuate that notion!

You can fail your shot tonight to try and invalidate my claim.

[Taly]

oh. my. god.

i never once thought people would actually think

churros/I

are a team.

BM

, it's evident that the only context you understand this game through is the one your scum PT has fed you.

or if not, you're

i can't find the words, honestly.

I'm a lot more confident on Taly being scum than eyestott. Just because of the manner of his claim and explaining his previous thoughts on prior day phases. Why do you think Churros is the obvious partner rather than Something_Smart?

When you say “the manner of his claim” which of us are you referring to?

You.

Battle Mage, given your confidence and how we agree on Taly being independently most scummy, isn't a Taly lynch far better than anything else?

So you want to lynch someone you can't NK?

I'm sorry. That's stupid.

[Taly]

It's hard to believe that with a player as good as Taly, town could be doing so dreadfully. I mean, he claims to have correctly identified 4 townies, who were in fact townies, by the start of Day 2 (although worth saying 3 of these were already dead at this point). Very impressive boast, although Taly's voting record doesn't compute with this, as he spent Day 1 voting for a range of different confirmed townies, including ultimately helping to lynch one.

On Day 1, per votecounts, Taly only voted for 1 person who isn't currently confirmed town.

Churros.

YOU HAVE NEVER PLAYED WITH ME BEFORE

QUIET YOURSELF

[Taly]

I SELF-META'D MYSELF EARLY THIS GAME.

YOUR THOUGHTS EQUATE TO NOTHING IF YOU USE META WITH CONSULTING MY GAMES.

[Taly]

oh. my. god.

i never once thought people would actually think

churros/I

are a team.

BM

, it's evident that the only context you understand this game through is the one your scum PT has fed you.

or if not, you're

i can't find the words, honestly.

Sounds like I'm right then. Throwing lame shade at me like that doesn't make you look any more town.

BECAUSE I AM DONE COMBATING STUPID THIS GAME.

[Taly]

If you believe

Churros/I

are a team.

You must believe

Blake

wasn't NKed because of her reads, if you're town. She had both of us in a non-lynch pool.

You must also believe that

Churros

replaced into this game with the pure intent of discrediting ALL towncases I've made this game, but he's only focused on about

Fuzzy

You must also believe that I've done NOTHING but defend mislynches this entire time. My read accuracy is the same regardless of my alignment, so how am I a mastermind that only plays a specific way as town and is a complete downgrade from that tonally as scum?

Answer this, or I'm ignoring you.

[Taly]

Have you ever lost it like this as scum, Taly?

NO. LET ME GO THROUGH MY GAMES AND SHOW YOU MY RAGE MODE AS TOWN AND SCUM.

[Taly]

Also, you guys are 2v1'ing me hard right now

If you want to actually read my thoughts then stop hammering me for a bit.

[Taly]

It's essentially the posts in 725. Note, I've noticed far fewer posts of that nature since I made that post. Though, I can see town!Taly being discouraged to show emotion/personality since he's being scumread for it, and I do apologise if that is the case, Taly!

I just don't have this large of an emotional range as scum, even if I tried.

I don't get so riled or soothed in such a short manner of time as scum because I have 0 reason to when I know a game's outcome before an event happens.

As town, I don't get this luxury. For an example, in my eyes:
If

NDMath

is town, this vindicates my original read on this slot and a major problem since 2 people I've towncased are now lynched, and I either had a change of heart on or had to make a decision to lynch based on nobody agreeing with me.
If

NDMath

is scum, this verifies the narrative that 1 of my towncases have buddied me for whatever reason, and distorts my idea of who else could be scum since I genuinely believed at some point this person's posting was town.

My core perception of this game is changed, that's why it's either really hard for people to read me, or very easy to. I'm simply more calculcated as scum, and even fall into a predisposed subset of emotions within a scumgame that acclimates to the plist and not my personal views that evolve over-time:

Here are my

scum

games, some are in a hydra. Tai is my other head.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=82289 (Hydra,

Tai

head)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=79036 (Hydra... I was a fucking traitor here, the bane of my existence.)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=76341 (I was a fucking traitor for the first time and I couldn't deal.)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=76098 (Perfect mafia win.)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=76118 (Multi-ball where I was fucking NKed by the other scum faction for being thought of as a traitor.)

Yes, the

NDMath

situation above is WIFOM, just as other ideas I've proposed this game, but it's how my brain works.

It's also a reason why it's hard for people to read me early-game as opposed to late, and why I often last long in games as town because scum can't attach a clear narrative to how I'll behave.

Here are some of my

town

games, the tone changes drastically at different points of the game, from pure solving to screaming-in-all-caps:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=75347 (High-functioning town)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=76441

(Tonally most unique game as town)

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10750432 (High-functioning town)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10632037
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=75869 (My LARGEST emotional range in a game outside of this one, probably.)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=79447 (Low-functioning town like this game, I flaked from stress.)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=78296 (Another low-functioning town game where I ended up flaking.)

(Moral of the story, being a Traitor is my life story as mafia and FUCK that... I can see why

Blake

is suspicious that I'm traitor here, but nope.)

I'm mid-functioning town here, maybe closer to low. I've had some

"I don't know if I can continue solving"

moments here.

requoting this post since I have to do the homework for ALL of you

[Taly]

Town Anger
[quote="Merchant's Daughter 2575]IF YOU'RE TOWN YOUR DEATH IS NOT HELPING US EITHER[/quote]
[quote="Merchant's Daughter 2577]THIS IS BULLSHIT[/quote]
[post="MC" 2581]ok rage is subsiding.[/quote]
-

THEN ANSWER MY QUESTION

If it's not frustration littered in my ISO, it's quick bursts of all-caps that dissipate very quickly.

Reason why I didn't continue these anger fits is because I was arguing with two very capable and lovely players and people I enjoy greatly outside of mafia:

Ankamius/Eddie Cane

not this bullshit of scum outing themselves while doing anything they can to discredit me like they've done throughout the game.

....

Go ahead. Read through all my Mafia ISOs. No caps. You'll see what feigned emotion from me is like, and theatre.

Paragon pushing for a Taly lynch over a Churros lynch is definitely another good reason to lynch Churros.

All of your posts center on why we should lynch a person and not clear them in a gamestate where we could be in lylo.

This is why you're scum.

[Taly]

Taly, who do you think the scum are? top pick particularly?

Paragon

. Read my entering wallpost.

Read all of

Paragon's

posts this dayphase.

He is moving around trying to find a grasp on this game that fits and it's not town-indicative.

There a lot of contradictions behind multiple thought processes he has.

And, like with

S_S

, I didn't vibe with his reaction to a massclaim.

[Taly]

I mean it is worth saying Taly, if you are town, you haven't had a stellar game in terms of reads. But the fact you've pretended to read correctly when actually you just voted for them all day, is dishonest, hence scum.

YEAH RIGHT.

I towncased 3 people who were all town, nobody believed me.

All my pushes this game have been revered as vanity wagons.

Nobody is on my side this game.

Also, am I horrible with reads as town, a mastermind as town who is so proficient at this game, or scum being dishonest?

Pick one, and leave me be.

[Taly]

As town, I've had relatively the best reads this entire game.

[Taly]

If Paragon is scum, Taly scum is less likely.

Likely partners for Paragon: (2 of) Something_Smart, Churros, Aloratom

Yep, I definitely think Churros is the right lynch for today then on that basis.

If

person A

is scum, then

person B

MIGHT not

be scum.

So let's lynch

person C

.

The fuck?

[Taly]

As town, I've had relatively the best reads this entire game.

A. That's not true.

B. If it was true, it wouldn't be much to write home about.

A)

It IS true.

B)

Since it is true, this means that my failure to convince town of my reads

is also become of a scum influence instead of solely town that I didn't completely catch.

[Taly]

If Paragon is scum, Taly scum is less likely.

Likely partners for Paragon: (2 of) Something_Smart, Churros, Aloratom

Yep, I definitely think Churros is the right lynch for today then on that basis.

If

person A

is scum, then

person B

MIGHT not

be scum.

So let's lynch

person C

.

The fuck?

Ah for me the logic is simple. You are scummiest player in the game. If you are scum, Churros most obvious scumbuddy. However, if you are not scum, likely Paragon is scum. If Paragon is scum, Churros quite likely to be scumbuddy.

Therefore Churros, although low key, is a much better lynch today - and then we can figure out the rest of the equation tomorrow!

So, you openly say

Player 1

is incredibly scummy, then say

Player 2

is the obvious buddy, but then say

Player 1 may be town if Player 3 is scum!

Then you also say

Player 2

is STILL the most likely buddy.

....I've never seen someone use this logic before. Not town, at least.

You literally just threw

Churros

into two scumteams with 2 players you openly said probably aren't scum together. Red flag galore...

Correcting you here,

IF

we can figure out

"the rest of the equation"

tomorrow - if we lynch

Churros

.

[Taly]

To be honest, I'm starting to wonder if Taly is just bonkers rather than necessarily being scum. I mean, his defence of "I played badly, but less badly than everyone else, so I must be town" is just mad.

Not at all my defense for myself. You should improve your reading comprehension in mafia.

but haha, if I'm crazy, I must be

krazy good

, right?

I'm not 'confident' on you being scum either, but clearly it's a possibility (half the game are scum).

Let's see how we get on with a Vote: Churros

You do know if you're voting town, then scumteam can just lolhammer right? Assuming we have 3 scum?

[Taly]

This is hilarious.

I don't think I even need to refute you guys anymore. I've never seen such opportunistic gamesolving ability this late in a game.

I'm going to shower and attend an online Genetics lecture.

p-edit

Taly - that's completely the right logic ion 2206. I have no idea why you're insinuating that is scummy - again, I think if you were town you'd be a bit more thoughtful.

Churros

is not an independent scumread. We should be lynching people we automatically have an independent understanding who are scum, since you're lynching someone off another player, and not the player itself.

That's an easy mislynch for scum here. That's an easy bus for a partner to absolve themself later. That's counterproductive thinking for a townie trying to find town as well as scum.

You say that you're reevaluating your perspective on

Para/I

, but you're still lynching

Churros

with the mentality of damning one of us. You haven't resolved with team is more likely. It's a perfect bus opportunity at worst for you, and a game-winning mislynch on me at best for you.

Your logic is either flawed, or purely scum-indicative.

[Taly]

As it stands, I'm not lynching

Eye

and am not feeling too good about an

S_S

lynch in light of the last 2 pages.

We NEED

Churros/Aloratom

in this thread already, blegh.

Eye

please help me keep from all-caps raging, please and thank you.

Taly - you're completely wrong in post 2216. But I'm sure that's obvious. (As obvious as you being scum!)

So I'm completely right on your action, but wrong on your assessment? How's it obvious?

Oh, and I guess I'm back to being scum for not reading your mind? Cool.

OK, shower for real now.

[Taly]

I genuinely don't know I can read this game without getting angry anymore.

Eye

has 0 to gain from claiming as scum here.

Alo

is probably one of the most genuine solvers in the game and I buy that VT claim of his.

Churros

is a bit less sure of as town but the push on him is so abhorrent he's probably town anyway.

S_S

is more certainly not groupscum, I don't know if I buy the VT claim but that's not exactly scum-indicative, not feeling as top lynch.

Battle Mage

is doing whatever he can to protect

Paragon

while breaking down any other townreads and is focusing on associatives instead of hard scumreads. Also their emoji's make light of genuine issues that I'm giving right now, it's a mockery of me.

Paragon

is the only person that makes sense as 100% concrete scum, both by their D3 posts here - potential slips, awkward read progressions, and the fact that

Blake/Pops

were his NKed public shields that he doesn't need anymore because

Aloratom/Churros

probably fulfills that role aligns most with the gamestate I could envision scum wanting to win this game in. Also, he keeps referencing

Blake's

reads as the word of a diety but isn't actually following her logic.

I'm not doing this for 10 days. These are my reads.

This entire game I've been dismissed or misrepresented, and this can't all just be a problem with me anymore.

People can talk through me the game but if a vote happens on the bottom 2 of my reads, I'm jumping on the wagon.

[Taly]

I'm signing off. I'll get to people at some point, not saying when.

[Taly]

So, the moment people actually try and acknowledge my viewpoints this game - the thread concludes that regardless of my alignment, I'm always a problem to town's win here. Everything that's been posted about me today have been misrepresentations.

I hate how this playerlist has interacted with me. If I'm the game's final mislynch then put me out of my fucking misery.

People didn't listen to me D1 and people aren't listening to me now.

S_S, Eye, Alo;

I'm sorry. You guys deserved better from me and a better playerlist.

[Taly]

No, at least not groupscum.

Churros

has just never entertained the reality of me being anything other than scum.

He has not said a thing to anything I've posted today.

Nothing I can say to him matters.

[Taly]

Everything that's been posted about me today have been misrepresentations.

Including what I said? You think you would be playing this way if you were scum?

No, you've been the only accurate person reading me this game.

Other than

Blake

when she wasn't doubting her read.

[Taly]

I've said what I needed to say. I'm not overwhelming the thread trying to hardlynch people.

And, reviewing the history of this game, what I say won't matter.

[Taly]

You should be trying to convince the people you think are town to vote Battle Mage

Why vote

BM

and not you?

[Taly]

Taly, we have listened to you, and that's the problem. Or if you're scum, it's the solution, because you've given the town no option but to lynch you to have any chance of winning.

This post - like your entire ISO - will age so horribly post-game, and that's almost satisfactory enough for me.

[Taly]

Don't tell me this is an overreaction.

It would have to be

Alo

as the third, but I have no reason to believe it's a 3p team, and

Alo

has been a consistent townread of mine so he's not the first person I'd want to lynch out of that group, so claiming he's scum too feels more defensive than gamesolve-oriented.

Alo

was

Para's

top townread going into this game and he shifted.

Eye/You

are investigative claims that I'm not going to refute, I believe you.

S_S

is cleared. Everything aligns with my reads.

Taly, we have listened to you, and that's the problem. Or if you're scum, it's the solution, because you've given the town no option but to lynch you to have any chance of winning.

This post - like your entire ISO - will age so horribly post-game, and that's almost satisfactory enough for me.

Again... you're assuming Battle Mage is town here for this to "age horribly".

No, I'm assuming

BM

is scum when he says this because he can't possibly believe half of what he's talking about in the thread.

And I didn't realize you had this huge-ass manual on how to read his mind.

[Taly]

Battle Mage because he's currently voting you, Taly.

So, I'm supposed to gladiate with 1 other person? That's how this day goes?

Just like

Fuzzy V NDMath

-

NDMath V Blake

... it's going to be

Taly V BM

now?

Wow, this game is fucked.

[Taly]

If you're town, you really are completely blind to the reality of what you've done here. You've backed us into a corner where you have to be lynched otherwise town has no hope. That's on you. It's just simple logic, I'm sure you understand it.

So you're gamethrowing because I'm not a completely confident scumread?

No, I don't understand it... so I don't think you're gamethrowing, you're fulfilling your win condition by lynching town.

[Taly]

If you have no reason to assume it's 3p, why are you saying you're the final mislynch?

if it's not 3p, this isn't LyLo at all?

I can't confirm or deny, so I don't see the purpose of speculating a 3p scumteam anymore than a 2p, and there's really no other options if it's 3p at this point than what I've already given.

Naming more people as scum derails conversation on a singular person being a most-likely scum lynch, so I'm sticking to what I most believe in.

[Taly]

....gee, thanks for the massive dose of condescension.

you really do not need to add to that pile of posts with such a tone,

BM

.

[Taly]

fine.

VOTE: Battle Mage

i have nothing to lose at this point.

[Taly]

i still dont understand the gamelong whiteknight that the entire playerlist has unleashed on

paragon

.

[Taly]

Fun!

where's your vote?

[Taly]

ok fuck this

im not being manipulated and taunted into voting

BM

, this conversation is degrading enough.

VOTE: Paragon

p-edit

there's my boundless wisdom,

Paragon

.

[Taly]

Tbh I feel a bit more like voting BM than voting Taly but I do wonder if there's any difference if between [Paragon, Taly] I'm probably voting Taly 8 out of 10 times.

I suppose I should still vote my top scum read today though.

Not a lesson I want to forget any time soon after some past games.

p-edit: It's not whiteknight'ing...I just town read the slot. Less than before for not dying until now tbh but still good enough, especially in this gamestate.

you honestly believe I'd keep you alive this long if I were groupscum?

[Taly]

Think of all the motivation I have to kill you as scum.

Think of all the motivation

Paragon

has to kill you as scum.

I always have more motivation of killing you,

Churros

, out of everyone in this playerlist.

[Taly]

Taly, you realise as town you lose if either of Battle Mage or I are town now? Voting me is strictly worse than Battle Mage, so I don't believe your thought process if you care so much about winning.

so what?

eye/alo

is the mastermind team?

and why do you and

BM

keep saying

"YOU REALIZE AS TOWN"

?

Makes it sound like you believe I'm town, more than I am scum... so why are you voting me?

[Taly]

That's actually kinda a good point, but I don't think you ever nightkill me in N1. It would bring too much attention on you in D2.

But in N2 where I was tunneling SS you definitely had an opportunity to NK me without any drawback. I might need to think why Blake was nightkilled more, but the fact we don't know for certain if it was because of her role or reads mess the NKA a lot. If Blake wasn't suspicious of you in D2, that's probably a decent point for town!you tbh.

nah, I'd still kill you.

I've been wrongly suspected for NKs before as town... I'm good at deflating that shit.

[Taly]

I don't get lynched early in games.

[Taly]

and why do you and BM keep saying "YOU REALIZE AS TOWN"?

Because I'm highlighting the fact your actions don't make sense as town.

Voting Battle Mage while he votes you: You lose if Battle Mage is town.

Voting Paragon while Battle Mage votes you: You lose if Battle Mage or Paragon is town.

I lose in every situation you surmise, because you know how I'll flip for a fact. You planned this.

I may have been active a lot this game, but nobody has really followed me in any train of thought.

I towncased

Fuzzy/NDMath

... everybody disagreed with the final conclusions.
I thought of

NDMath/Blake

as TvT...

Blake

suspected me for this.

I've had no impact on this game. I've always been the best lynch for scum to jump on after

Fuzzy/NDMath

.

[Taly]

I think this might be my first LyLo as town in a regular game. It's really toxic though, maybe being NK'ed early isn't all that bad.

I suppose I'm going to get to way more LyLos with this different playstyle. I wonder if I should be happy about it.

Please tell me how you get NKed early.

I hate making lylo, I do it more as town.

And this isn't your usual lylo... I'm being talked down to relentlessly here.

[Taly]

Honestly

I wouldn't be so bothered getting mislynched in lylo.

Just, how it's happening... I'm being told I'm the reason town loses, when I was the only person rethinking every mislynch.

It's shocking. This is brutal.

[Taly]

Paragon

, if we're both town, who's scum?

[Taly]

I asked you who is scum if we're both town,

Paragon

.

I don't really want to discuss anything else at the moment.

[Taly]

Why is the question being Paragon/Taly instead of just BM?

I feel like, we're going through the path we can be mistaken rather than going for the one where there's no doubt.

I feel similar if we voted

BM

... I feel like the

BM V Taly

dichotomy is a setup.

[Taly]

But I do scumread

BM

independently now.

[Taly]

I can't really follow how

eye

can be scum at this moment.

[Taly]

UNVOTE:

What do you want?

[Taly]

No, unvote me first.

Give me the exact same courtesy I just gave you or we have nothing to discuss.

[Taly]

Personally, I don't think you or anybody needs any more time to question themselves into oblivion.

So don't make me wait forever.

[Taly]

VOTE: Battle Mage

[Taly]

I feel like I'm being held hostage, and I hate it.

[Taly]

I feel like I'm being held hostage, and I hate it.

How do you figure?

Because,

Paragon/Me

sort is the hardest sort in the game right now, so delaying that when I'm both:

1)

the more scumread person.

2)

the one who initiated

Paragon

to be scum.

Makes it feel like I'm fighting an uphill battle.

It's worse because

Churros/Paragon

collectively scumread or suspect

BM

too, but the situation is being painted like I can't be bothered to ever vote/lynch

BM

, and that's a narrative against me.

It doesn't matter if

BP

flips scum here.

And

BM/Paragon

already decided that I'm the sole reason town loses in any situation.

What am I supposed to do?

[Taly]

And you know what?

In some weird world,

Para/I

are both town, and this avenue of thought cannot even be close to being explored until we lynch the person blowing up the thread with:

"

Taly's

blundering so much, can't be town!"

"You have such poor reads

Taly

"

"iS pArAgOn ScUm?"

[Taly]

I mean if Churros is gonna turn on you he's gonna turn on you. It's not like he's intentionally stringing you along only to lynch you later. He's just trying to get his stronger read out of the way; that sounds like teamwork, not holding hostage.

Tell me how to regain faith into town again?

[Taly]

And you know what?

In some weird world,

Para/I

are both town, and this avenue of thought cannot even be close to being explored until we lynch the person blowing up the thread with:

"

Taly's

blundering so much, can't be town!"

"You have such poor reads

Taly

"

"iS pArAgOn ScUm?"

Well, at least this thought process I stream-of-conscious'd helps me confirm that

BM

is a must scum here.

OK, I see what

Churros

was talking about now, from his perspective.

[Taly]

I'm decided, kinda. I'm a sucker for AtE tbh.

I'm guilty of AtE, too... doing it and being a sucker for it... I'm disliking that I've AtE'd a lot here... but it's real.

I wouldn't be nearly as dedicated as scum, even if I tried.

And BM/Paragon already decided that I'm the sole reason town loses in any situation.

This definitely isn't true! No one is the sole reason if this game is lost.

OK.

[Taly]

Taly I'm gonna say again that what you're saying there is a moot point right now.

Think about today. You're already worried about tomorrow. I might not even be here tomorrow depending on how smart scum is.

There was once this great player that said to me "lynch one scum, rinse and repeat". I didn't listen to them back then, I'm listening to them now.

Let's lynch

BM

then.

[Taly]

He's like that calm guy meditating that comes around someone troubled and says:

"It's simple you see...you just need to deal with it."

this is pretty much

SS/me

in many of our interactions.

[Taly]

Goodnight.

I'll do what I can to permanently remove my emotions this game, yikes, I've injected a lot of frustration into the thread. I'm sorry... it's not like me to this extent.

I don't think I've really been in a game quite like this before.

[Taly]

S_S

, what has confused you about my stances and reads recently? If anything?

Paragon

, what factors do you evaluate to determine who you vote right now?

Churros

, do you see scum motivation behind

Eye's

claim and bloc with me? Do you see the same about me?

BM

, give a readslist that encompasses everybody?

Aloratom

, why does

Paragon

sticking on

NDMath

solidify your read as town there? How did you feel when you both voted him D1?

Eyestott

, do you think I am misled on any read in the game right now?

[Taly]

The council is thinking. The consensus seems to be that Taly + Churros as scum seems a lot less likely than Battle Mage scum.

The person highly opposed to this of course is Ame (who has changed her avatar from the one she used this game -

grumble grumble)

I'm very curious on how you interpret their views.

What do the council members think of each living player in this game?

[Taly]

I think I will.
VOTE: BattleMaster

Taly, I’m choosing to put my faith in you.

If you’re scum, I will cry.

Don't worry, if I were scum, I'd probably cry too.

If we enter night, could everyone request a

Fast Night

from the moderator please? Thank you!

I'm all for this.

Another base needs to be covered:

Churros + eyestott + Taly

This is impossible. They're all claiming power roles lol.

I'll hammer after Aloratom comes back, and Churros answers my question.

Maybe question PR claims after we lynch someone 4+ people agree is probable scum?

[Taly]

2shotBP, 2 weaker variations of a cop and 1shotvig dont feel too powerful either way.

[Taly]

You can't 100% confirm the alignments of any of the 4 above based solely based off their role, specifically.

[Taly]

2 weaker variations of a

rolecop

rolecop is a better phrasing here

[Taly]

Remind me why anyone was townreading Aloratom again please?

Speak why he shouldn't be townread?

I have a hard time following 2435

[Taly]

I've read a lot of what was posted last night, and this is what immediately popped into my head.

Blake 1-shot Vigilante
Taly 2-shot Bulletproof
Churros 1-shot Novice Gunsmith
Eyestott Neapolitan

It seems to me that one of the PR claims cannot be true. A Taly/Eyestott team could have cooked up the Taly clear. This would kind of make sense. Taly's frustration is palpable, but I really can't tell if it's sincere or not at this point. It's been happening all game. And Eyestott has been looking worse to me over time. But that would leave just two Power Roles, the Vig and the Gunsmith. I don't know that that makes sense with a third scum.

Churros could have fabricated the Gunsmith claim. This also makes sense. If Blake had survived and Eyestott had been Night Killed, the roles would have been switched, and I could see a Churros/Blake team cooking up a Gunsmith/Vigilante PR team to get Blake a clear in the same manner Taly got a clear from Eyestott. But I question that. Why would a scum!Churros who was going after Something_Smart yesterday clear SS when he could have directed a mislynch on SS today? Also, the fact is that Blake actually was a Vigilante. Pairing a Gunsmith with a Vigilante is more synchronous than pairing a Neapolitan with a Bulletproof. And again, that leaves just two Power Roles, which I'm not sure about with three scum.

So with the Power Roles, I have to conclude that either the Bulletproof or the Neapolitan does not exist or that they both don't exist. I'm not sure which option is more likely.

That's where I'm starting -- with the Power Roles.

With the Vanilla Claims, I hate thinking in associatives, but it seems the most appropriate thing to do right now. I can't reconcile a Battle Mage and Taly or Battle Mage and Paragon being part of the same team. I can see Battle Mage and Something_Smart or Battle Mage and Churros or Battle Mage and Eyestott. If there are 3 mafia, that would mean Battle Mage/Something_Smart/Churros or Battle Mage/Something_Smart/Eyestott. Something_Smart and Churros can't be on the same team from what I've seen and given the Power Role claims, the only possible 3-man team would be Battle Mage/Something_Smart/Eyestott. Possible 2-man teams would be Battle Mage/Churros and Battle Mage/Eyestott.

I can't reconcile a Paragon and Battle Mage or Paragon and Taly being part of the same team. I can see Paragon and Something_Smart or Paragon and Churros or Paragon and Eyestott. If there are 3 mafia, that would mean Paragon/Something_Smart/Churros or Paragon/Something_Smart/Eyestott. Either of these teams is possible. Possible 2-man teams would be Paragon/Something_Smart, Paragon/Churros and Paragon/Eyestott.

I think the most sensible lynch for today is Battle Mage.

VOTE: Battle Mage

I'm confused, you spent time picking at

Me/Churros

having possible fakeclaims but didn't combat

Eye's

? And placed

Paragon/S_S

in many teams together?

[Taly]

Also, is it confirmed we have 3 scum?

[Taly]

S_S

please stay alive tonight

[Taly]

Talk to me

Paragon

,

Want to tell me the reasons why

Eye

,

Churros

, and

Aloratom

would want to NK

S_S

?

[Taly]

huh?

[Taly]

I'm going to eat. I'd like to come back to an answer.

[Taly]

Talk to me

Paragon

,

Want to tell me the reasons why

Eye

,

Churros

, and

Aloratom

would want to NK

S_S

?

I don't think we should discuss anything until eyestott has claimed their check.

We could talk about our favourite military tacticians from history though! Titus Labienus is one of my favourites. He was second in command to Caeser during the Gaulic Wars. This is a great video about their fallout and consequent head to head.

You didn't elaborate on any read on

eyestott

last dayphase, so what are you looking to hear?

And

Churros

claimed investigative as well, why not take interest in what he claims?

[Taly]

oh wait, he was 1-shot, right?

[Taly]

[Taly]

oh actually, that's a pretty sound idea.

k

[Taly]

We could talk about our favourite military tacticians from history though! Titus Labienus is one of my favourites. He was second in command to Caeser during the Gaulic Wars. This is a great video about their fallout and consequent head to head.

tbh i dont know too much about military tactics hehe

[Taly]

yeah, its 2p team, im sure.

so i think traitor is impossible, that would be pretty town-sided

[Taly]

im up to chat

[Taly]

top 5 thoughts when you saw Battle Mage flipping green?

since paragon doesn't want to talk too much about reads yet anyway

1)

fuck

2)

it's either

Paragon/eyestott

or

Churros/S_S

...

3)

but FFS

S_S

is town and he's probably dying, damnit i shouldnt have claimed.

4)

Alo's

hammer was weird and hard to follow, is he really a potential 2p scum since the game is still going?

5)

shit, i was right to feel the way i did about

BM

lynch in 2326 2340 2362 2374 2377 i cannot numerically be the only town on

BM's

lynch... i have to townhunt in

Alo/Churros/eye

before asserting a push if lylo occurs.

those were the 5 thoughts that followed the second i read

BM's

flip.

[Taly]

so i think traitor is impossible, that would be pretty town-sided

you misunderstood me?

I was saying that if it's a 2-man + traitor, which would still mean 3 mafiosos in the game, it was already over when we mislynched BM. 1 scum + 1 traitor doesn't exist in any kind of normal setup I'm pretty sure.

Anyway the fact no one has claimed anything yet likely points to the game still being alive.

no, im meaning it would be very townsided if it was 11 townies (with any PR) and 2 independent scum, when there's a 1-shot vig available.

[Taly]

or maybe im just tired of getting frustrated this game and am not focusing too hard on details?

[Taly]

So, the moment people actually try and acknowledge my viewpoints this game - the thread concludes that regardless of my alignment, I'm always a problem to town's win here. Everything that's been posted about me today have been misrepresentations.

I hate how this playerlist has interacted with me. If I'm the game's final mislynch then put me out of my fucking misery.

People didn't listen to me D1 and people aren't listening to me now.

S_S, Eye, Alo;

I'm sorry. You guys deserved better from me and a better playerlist.

This is actually really scummy. If you believe Something_Smart, eyestott, and Alorarom are all town with you like you're suggesting in the last line, you have absolutely nothing to fear about Churros/Battle Mage/I talking about voting you. You should be trying to convince the people you think are town to vote Battle Mage; not talking about how you're going to be the game's final mislynch because who you think is the scumteam all look like they're going to vote you.

Perspective slip!

Remember this. It really makes no sense for town!Taly to make this post if he believes everyone scumreading him is scum, and everyone else that aren't scumreading him is town.

untrue, i scumread only

you and BM

at the time of this post, the only person treating this slot as solid town was

S_S

, who i was not completely solid on at the time of the post.

[Taly]

paragon

, when you say

eye

is always scum but you wait for his claim, you're always placing yourself in an advantageous position to discredit whatever

eye

has to say regardless of his or your alignment.

if you're going to completely block any question I throw your way 2352 off this pretense, then that conveys you're less concerned on surveying all players in good faith for lylo and more about capitalizing on a lynch.

your play is dangerous if town and predictable if scum.

[Taly]

untrue, i scumread only

you and BM

at the time of this post, the only person treating this slot as solid town was

S_S

, who i was not completely solid on at the time of the post.

Still, you were apologising to Something_Smart, Aloratom, and eyestott as if they were town, and that you would be mislynched by 2 people you thought were scum, and Churros (who must be the third scum if you believe the first 3 are town). All 3 of those players had townlean/reads on you.

because i believed they were

(Alo/S_S/Eye)

were all town and they've actually responded to my points throughout this game in decent faith despite not agreeing with them?

and not really,

alo

was rethinking the read,

S_S

wasn't following my wallposts to well, and

eye

had a

"temporary"

townread on me, since he stated that he

"he didn't want my lynch today"

[Taly]

Sure, you can paint reasons for why scum!me would enter the day like that, but I've given the reasons for why I actually did which are very logical as town.

I don't see a question in 2352.

2452.... you know what post im talking about because it's not even hours old...

[Taly]

also,

Paragon

, what happened to

Churros-Taly

is more likely scumteam if it's not

BM

-scum?

how did this shift to

eye-Taly

when

churros

entered the thread and proclaimed that he didn't believe

eye's

claim anyhow?

[Taly]

You went from

"let's wait to hear from

eye

"

to

"

Taly-eye

are scum"

moments into

Churros'

debut.

Talking about reads and who scumreads who allows eyestott to claim a more optimal fake-check in the event that he's scum, Taly.

We wait for the check first.

Hello.

im up to chat

Fine. eyestott is always scum here and is partner is almost certainly Taly. 2035 spews Aloratom as town; I never should've doubted that townread. Ungated neopolitan is not reasonable for a 12 player game with 2 scum; not even close.

I townread you and scumread Taly, so my this game is solved in my mind. The reason I wanted to wait is because eyestott trying to 1v1 someone could've potentially TMIed them as town if he thought he had any chance of winning a 1v1.

[Taly]

i hate quotes

But Churros..........................................................

this replaces the third quote above.

[Taly]

Anyone there? I wanna take the opportunity of having free time and real-time chat with someone. Especially Taly.

I'm going to be considering this as only a 2-man team since if it's actually 2-man + traitor the game was kind of over already yesterday and it was a mod mistake to let today happen at all.

and when

churros

wanted to converse with me, you deliberately filter the thread with reasons you scumread me:

So, the moment people actually try and acknowledge my viewpoints this game - the thread concludes that regardless of my alignment, I'm always a problem to town's win here. Everything that's been posted about me today have been misrepresentations.

I hate how this playerlist has interacted with me. If I'm the game's final mislynch then put me out of my fucking misery.

People didn't listen to me D1 and people aren't listening to me now.

S_S, Eye, Alo;

I'm sorry. You guys deserved better from me and a better playerlist.

This is actually really scummy. If you believe Something_Smart, eyestott, and Alorarom are all town with you like you're suggesting in the last line, you have absolutely nothing to fear about Churros/Battle Mage/I talking about voting you. You should be trying to convince the people you think are town to vote Battle Mage; not talking about how you're going to be the game's final mislynch because who you think is the scumteam all look like they're going to vote you.

Perspective slip!

Remember this. It really makes no sense for town!Taly to make this post if he believes everyone scumreading him is scum, and everyone else that aren't scumreading him is town.

oh wait, he was 1-shot, right?

Also, this is a really fake slip. He's trying to show he can't have been thinking about nightkills because he'd know a detail like that.

Sure, you can paint reasons for why scum!me would enter the day like that, but I've given the reasons for why I actually did which are very logical as town.

I don't see a question in 2352.

You deliberately try to shut me down before I am able to speak my viewpoints, here.

[Taly]

But if it's in any possibility universe #2, collectively looking at Aloratom before we go to sort between you is the unique way we ever win here, because after clogging up the thread with this 1v1 for god knows how long, not even I am going to have the ENORMOUS mental strength necessary to check for a team that doesn't include either of you. It's already quite hard to do it before entering that rabbit hole, and that's exactly what a [Eyesott, Aloratom] team would be going for today.

I'm not convinced yet it's never universe #2.

i like this approach, im not doing Round 3 of

Taly V Paragon

while the thread ignores it.

[Taly]

I got impatient. I'm fairly confident in this solve and you all were discussing reads anyway.

Churros is right,

and you're doing that thing again where you're attacking me from every possible direction you can find.

I admire the fact that you have the energy for it but it's exhausting for me to clarify/address every little thing you pick out, so I'm disengaging for now.

excuse me?

[Taly]

fuck it, it's not worth it anymore.

[Taly]

man, i must be reading an entirely different game than the entire playerlist.

[Taly]

Ok

if I had to describe Aloratom in one word to me in this game, it would probably be tofu.

Tofu is kinda tasteless to me; it doesn't taste great, it doesn't taste bad.

I'm not a fan of Tofu though.

I feel like most of Aloratom posts are wordy but doesn't reach any real conclusion/statement in the end.

For instance he flaked on me for ages almost as if see'ing if I would be mislynchable or not in the game.

I remember Taly saying he felt Aloratom was a genuine solver in this game because they were engaging their walls, but do you think that replying to questions asked to the public is town-indicative Taly?

Do you think effort (and that's not much effort at all in this case), is that town-indicative?

at the time yes, i dont see walls come from scum often, and i townread him because his reads felt genuine - at least in the context that he'd entertain multiple options and outline his opinions... i felt like he had more substance when interacting with any points i made this game compared to other slots, and ive been sorting other people that pinged me more than to critically assess him further.

[Taly]

so what?

Churros-Taly

is the scumteam now because

Eyestott

said you were VT?

what happened to

eye-taly

scumteam when you were still waiting for their claim?

i genuinely dont understand your read progression

paragon

[Taly]

fine, ill back off entirely.

[Taly]

I want to hear

Eye's

reads, too.

[Taly]

Eye

, why didn't you try to confirm

Churros'

claim was correct?

It would've been very easy for

Churros

-scum to fake a claim altogether and then NK

S_S

So why was

Para

the best target here? He already claimed VT.

[Taly]

Also, I want a better answer on why you wanted - only me - to claim specifically D3.

You had a non-VT result, but why didn't you survey the opportunity of pushing a case on me to help sort me, or if you thought I genuinely was a Town PR, why did you want me to out my claim in the beginning?

[Taly]

But Churros, eyestott checks for vanilla townies. He'd get a negative on you regardless of your alignment.

Exactly.

Eye

could've cleared

Churros'

claim on

S_S

being correct, and thus found a reliable - potentially town - PR.

If anything,

Eye

could've checked if

Churros

fakeclaimed, and if he did, that would've invalidated the

S_S

clear.

But that information doesn't benefit

Eye

-scum, who has more motivation to kill

S_S

over statements like:

I mean, of course I'm not going to die unless eyestott is scum.

Unless you had solid reasoning to believe

S_S

was the kill before EoD3, the fact that

Eye

had the ability to absolve one of the PRs N3 but didn't, is likelier because it wouldn't have served him.

Late-game, scum have to preserve themselves as much as possible by trying to find a reason to doubt EVERYBODY still alive.

Eye's

play executes this perfectly on

Churros

.

Think about why he checked you,

Paragon

:
Even in the world that you are town, he gets someone who he could pocket by having a soft

"clear"

on them, and an additional townie to push a lynch for.

Eye's

play - despite how you slice it - is suboptimal at best, and scum at worst. Makes perfect sense why

Scum Neapolitan

is a valued scum investigative:

It will out the Gun-Smith, 2shot-BP, and 1shot-Vig.

[Taly]

For instance I don't think that Paragon/Eyesott is a team ever

Why not?

You desperately need to help me see

Paragon

-town here.

[Taly]

Mmm...

Then what makes you think

Paragon/I

are TvT here?

[Taly]

I'm going to bed tonight.

Paragon

, I think we should probably re-ISO the other.

If we're both town, we need to solve each other in better faith if town has a chance of winning - because I am not dying tonight even if we lynch scum.

[Taly]

Also, I want a better answer on why you wanted - only me - to claim specifically D3.

You had a non-VT result, but why didn't you survey the opportunity of pushing a case on me to help sort me, or if you thought I genuinely was a Town PR, why did you want me to out my claim in the beginning?

pushing you is difficult, especially if I don't have concrete evidence against you.

I considered that gambit that you can do with investigative roles (the one where you claim a different form of guilty result to catch the person out in a lie), but wasn't confident that it wouldn't backfire.

Is Non-Vanilla really concrete evidence against someone? You could've interacted as if I were a Town PR, or worked to resolve my read OR search for crumbs I may have laid out, or prodded around that arena.

So, I still don't follow the necessity where you wanted me to claim beyond everybody else. Also, if you ever believed I could be scum,

why did you take my claim at surface value D3 and insist on not wanting to lynch me immediately?

I claimed

2shot-BP

. There's only a

1shot-Vig

in the playerlist. There's nothing here that references that I die by any night-killing role other than scum.

In this idea, I'm mechanically town, I'm only scum if you believe I completely fakeclaimed, so:

- If you didn't search me with the mentality of clearing or understanding my POV further:

1)

You checked me with the mentality of confirming preemptive suspicion that I am scum or

2)

You checked me with the mentality of rolefishing.

Neither narrative really align together, or make a lot of sense.

And I don't get why you're using your check on

Paragon

as a means for him to believe you're town. He literally would be burying you right now if you checked him and said Non-Vanilla, and at worst, it's not like

Paragon's

going anywhere this dayphase... regardless of what I say, that's been clear since D1.

So, yeah, your check on

Paragon

does feel pockety.

[Taly]

I still think it can be Eyesott/Alo?

I like...said that already?

and I only got pretty confident on town!paragon after eyesott claimed the target on him.

OK, yeah, I can kind of see

Alo-Eye

because

Eye

doing this on his scumbuddy, LMFAO, that would've been a game losing plan even in the reality I were in lylo. Too great of an argument, don't think

Eye

would go to that length.

It'd be easier to pocket

Paragon

and let our TvT endgame us.

Either way, I'm reISOing

Paragon

, and ISOing

Aloratom

. Those are the two slots I need to critically solve at this point, I believe.

[Taly]

paragon

, we have such a love/hate relationship this game wtf

[Taly]

paragon

, we have such a love/hate relationship this game wtf

that's usually a sign it's TvT, lol fuck

[Taly]

Something_Smart was the most likely person to be nightkilled other than myself (Though scum leaving me alive to mislynch me now is a good play on their end) because a lynch on him was unlikely for today given the alleged clear from Churros.

His death proves that it was the correct decision for me to NOT target him.

OK, full-stop.

You thought

S_S'

was always dying N3... and that's the reason you didn't check

Churros

N3 to verify his claim?

What?

The point still stands, you could've greatly helped clear a scumread.

That's a disingenuous move and mode of thinking.

[Taly]

Sigh... I'll just get to ISOing.

You guys are welcome to ask me anything.

[Taly]

Maybe question PR claims after we lynch someone 4+ people agree is probable scum?

I'm not questioning them, I'm saying this lynch is fine because there's no way all 3 PR claims are fake given everyone else has claimed VT.

Something_Smart, do you believe this setup is balanced?

• 1 mafia rolecop
  
• 1 mafia goon
  
• 1 town 1-shot vig
  
• 1 town 2-shot BP
  
• 1 town novice 1-shot gunsmith
  
• 7 VT

Plus 1 town neapolitan. I'm not sure how he left that out. I'm also not sure how he assumes a mafia rolecop.

Anyway, one of these PRs has to be fake. That's just too much power for Town.

excuse you, do you think

eye

used his check N3 effectively?

instead of saying

"these PRs all are town but that's too much power"

then make a declarative statement or assessment that provides insight about the claims.

[Taly]

I thought I would be the one to decide LyLo but I'm glad I can apparently pass the curse to Paragon in this gamestate.

I'm beginning to feel silly talking about eyesott, and right now I think Taly might be town because this is making more sense as [Eyesott, Alo] rather than [Taly, Eyesott].

I think it's up to Paragon to decide between [Churros, Eyesott] and [Taly, Alo] here.

If I may say something though, [Churros/Taly] is a pretty ridiculous team when you take a look at this game past days, really.

lmfao

Paragon/Churros/Taly

is the most dysfunctional trio ever as all-town

i can believe it.

[Taly]

No, I'm leaning on

Eye/?

and

Eye/Alo

if anything.

[Taly]

Ahh, Taly. And we were townbloced yesterday. How quickly things change when you feel like you can mislynch me

I'm not the one who said

"I want to work with

Taly

for the next few IRL days, not dayphase"

It's kind of weird, if you've always suspected I fakeclaimed, why were you content with me jumping into your pocket?

Need me to send you the posts as a reminder?

I really am sorry for the flaming that you received from BM yesterday, even if you are scum

Meh. Town would've lost had he remained alive, regardless of his alignment.

p-edit

Think about why he checked you, Paragon:
Even in the world that you are town, he gets someone who he could pocket by having a soft "clear" on them, and an additional townie to push a lynch for.

Eye's play - despite how you slice it - is suboptimal at best, and scum at worst. Makes perfect sense why Scum Neapolitan is a valued scum investigative: It will out the Gun-Smith, 2shot-BP, and 1shot-Vig.

Scum Neapolitan? Is that a role?

Yes. It takes 3 fucking clicks and two-three words in a search bar to see this:
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Neapolitan
"

A Neapolitan is an informative role that can check one player per night to see whether or not they are a Vanilla Townie.

While Neapolitans have utility for both Town and Mafia, they are more commonly assigned to Town.

The Neapolitan was created by Ether as a buff to the Vanilla Cop for Normal Games.

"

"

Town
The Town Neapolitan is designed around the ability to confirm townies rather than get guilty results on mafia. As no normal mafia roles are immune to its power, any vanilla results are indisputable.

The Neapolitan is weaker than a Cop (which can get guilties) and stronger than the original Vanilla Cop (which can't confirm alignments). Its power is comparable to a slightly weaker Gunsmith, in that it has the potential to get many more false guilties, getting the same result on all Power Roles as it does on Mafia.

The Neapolitan becomes significantly weaker for town the fewer Vanilla Townies are present. In a setup in which at least half of all other players are VTs, an averagely played Neapolitan can be expected to confirm around 2 players as town.

Anti-town
As an anti-town role, the Neapolitan is equivalent to a Vanilla Cop and slightly weaker than a Role Cop, in that its primary purpose is to determine which players are Power Roles and worth killing.

"

The fact that I have to spell this shit out to you makes me more confident that you arguing that

Eye

comes from a Town PR here more false.

Especially when you give 2/3 potential scumteams with

Eye

in it.

In my eyes it has to be the Bulletproof or the Neapolitan that doesn't exist.

I'm really coming around to [Eyestott/Churros], [Paragon/Eyestott], [Paragon/Churros].

If this is your attempt at distancing, it's poorly thought out.

[Taly]

In my eyes it has to be the Bulletproof or the Neapolitan that doesn't exist.

I'm really coming around to [Eyestott/Churros], [Paragon/Eyestott], [Paragon/Churros].

You say that either the BP or Nea that doesn't exist but you're putting me in two different scum teams and not mentioning Taly at all?

They don't want to call me scum because they know I'll bury them.

That's why they spent this game telling me I had good points but not actually acting on them because they were accurate, and they knew it.

[Taly]

It's kind of weird, if you've always suspected I fakeclaimed, why were you content with me jumping into your pocket?

Need me to send you the posts as a reminder?

Can you explain what “me jumping into your pocket” means?

I townread you thinking you had no reason to want a claim as scum.

But you didn't argue this, yet you seem to believe that my PR claim is false from the beginning, or at least potentially.

If you believed my claim was false, why didn't you try to clear

Churros'

again? You still avoid this question.

[Taly]

ok gotta go now for real

Taly where is your mind at?

im settling on

eye/alo

as scum but i still want to look at

Alo

interactive-wise, the

alo

scumread is mostly because his reply to

eye's

claim is far less excusable than

para's

i still want to ISO so my mind is clear come D5 and because the gamestate has become into 4 people pulling

para

into 4 different directions, so im taking t

i think you're the scum mislynch because

eye

wanted a reason to doubt your claim, so he could get away with pushing you without checking up, or so he thought.

and because

para

openly entertained a

Taly/Churros

time alternative to

BM

scum.

yeah, this game feels solved, but i need ALL of town to be on the same page, so i must put in the legwork and see if this narrative fits with

alo/para's

game progression.

[Taly]

i still want to ISO so my mind is clear come D5 and because the gamestate has become into 4 people pulling para into 4 different directions, so im taking

initiative on solving to counteract this

[Taly]

Taly, you realise as town you lose if either of Battle Mage or I are town now? Voting me is strictly worse than Battle Mage, so I don't believe your thought process if you care so much about winning.

so what?

eye/alo

is the mastermind team?

and why do you and

BM

keep saying

"YOU REALIZE AS TOWN"

?

Makes it sound like you believe I'm town, more than I am scum... so why are you voting me?

What changed your mind on the ridiculousness of eyestott + Aloratom being the team?

Why can't it be Churros + Aloratom, with eyestott as the designated mislynch?

Reread my posts about

eyestott

and how he used his claimed PR....

and my reply to

Alo's

entrance....

[Taly]

Also, as scum, I would sooner flake than have

Blake/S_S

be NKs and my partner didn't plan to hard-bus me afterward.

I've made horrible strategic errors if I'm scum in this game. This isn't even a WIFOM argument anymore.

[Taly]

If you were scum, who would kill over Blake Belladonna and Something_Smart on those respective nights?

Alo/eye

because

Blake

said they were both potential scum... do you need to me dig up this post?

S_S

because he literally said as the final D3 post that if he dies -

eye

must be scum - and yeah, that could be WIFOM, but in light of the claimed results? Doubt it.

Also, why do I kill the only 2 people that have faithfully townread me this entire game? It doesn't make any sense.\

p-edit

*who would you kill

Churros

would've been the N1 kill from me for obvious reasons, if not someone else.

N2, you or

Churros

- depending on if he were alive. Killing you would've given validity to

Blake's

reads, and I would've much more easily sided with her reads and viewpoint D2 if I were scum.

S_S

would've given me a free ticket supposing his

"BOP

Blake

"

strategy.

N3, both of you would be dead for certain. If not, I am not sure who else.

You two literally have been at odds the most with my perspective this game. No amount of

"WIFOM"

defense I could muster would counteract the likelihood of one of you lynching me late-game had you survived.

I just don't play this riskily as scum.

[Taly]

If I were scum, I should've had my partner voting me right now.

[Taly]

Also, D3 was such a huge pain in the ass, if I were that bothered as scum, I would've flaked or just not have been active in the thread.

I wouldn't have faked all-caps raging as much as I did because I genuinely do not want to cross the boundary of a rule or break friendships, I would not stoop that low as a performance to people I know who are town.

[Taly]

You can still refute me with the argument of

"

Taly

is self-aware as scum"

but like what

Blake/S_S

have said.

It's an error to read me based entirely on what I say and not by my emotionality (saying I fake emotionality is always a wrong assessment, regardless of my alignment, some emotionality is always there but presents differently), and I don't make things harder for myself than they need to be.

[Taly]

Blake/S_S

are in top 5/10 people who've had the most experience with me in the whole site.

They flipped town, take in to consideration their reads and progression at least.

[Taly]

Also, D3 was such a huge pain in the ass, if I were that bothered as scum, I would've flaked or just not have been active in the thread.

I wouldn't have faked all-caps raging as much as I did because I genuinely do not want to cross the boundary of a rule or break friendships, I would not stoop that low as a performance to people I know who are town.

Oh God, this post is extremely towny. I really hope you're not making this as scum.

I am a mastermind, or at least, people have said... I'm not so sure.

But if I were, I'm almost always a town-one, when people question it.

[Taly]

But yeah, just do what helps you solve best.

I've said the major points on how I am town here, and my understanding of the game at hand.

[Taly]

Not kidding though, I am lylo-bait as town, usually.

And if I were scum - which is not unusual that I make it mid OR late-game, this dayphase would be looking pretty different right now.

I've filtered the thread enough, have a good day

Paragon

[Taly]

oh and deadline is like 8-9 days

[Taly]

I'll get to ISOing tomorrow

[Taly]

[Taly]

haha, you say you're town so much, who are you trying to convince?

if you're going to go that route, then at least case why you are.

[Taly]

haha, you say you're town so much, who are you trying to convince?

if you're going to go that route, then at least case why you are.

Ummmm
Paragon
Aloratom
Duh?


And I just did towncase

You and Churros haven’t thought to declare that you’re town anywhere near as much as me, maybe there’s a reason for that

2679 was a case?

You're going to put me to sleep.

[Taly]

does anyone else notice

alo's

prodging?

[Taly]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

It’s pretty bad, I’m embarrassed looking back through it
But I think it’s my only scum game on MS

i SuCk At ScUm lUl

I dunno, making a wall just doesn’t feel genuine. Succinct points are where it’s at Taly.
Paragon, look at my D1. That doesn’t come from scum who hasn’t played mafia in over 5 years
I rest my gavel

yEaH lOoK aT mY d1 PeRfOrMaNcE wHeRe I gOt ToWnReAd AnD mIsLyNcHeD

not the 3 preceding dayphases that veil me accruing suspicion

oh and it makes PERFECT sense that you would say my walls aren't genuine.

that's literally the mentality most of the playerlist has taken to me this game.

You're going to put me to sleep.

The shade


Are you prepared to get read, Taly? Cause the library is open

LOL girl, I don't need to shade you

You live in the shadow that looms over

Blake

and

S_S'

dead bodies.

[Taly]

the above post was mostly in good fun, i didnt mean to rip into you if that sounded too harsh

[Taly]

dude i wish i got strongman'd

[Taly]

churros

, am I abrasive?

[Taly]

ah, i can see that.

but im actually not burned out, kind of accepted that i have little control of the game.

its easier that im not getting put on blast like majority of D3 after producing a solve, of course.

im pretty much just synthesizing my points to help

para

evaluate more thoroughly, i have begun ISOing.

[Taly]

ive had 100% read accuracy on everybody i have ISO'd, so fingers crossed.

[Taly]

How do you not have control of the game when you're one of the votes that will decide LyLo Taly?

even if we lynch

eye

-scum, do you really think

Para

will keep me alive D5 when you're NKed?

and yes, i think you'd be the NK because scum have no actual reason to doubt that i am a

2shot-BP

and scum want your lynch today, which i am never voting on.

tbh, i might just ISO you too, but ive already had partial towncases on you in the previous dayphases... also, you-scum NEVER benefits from stopping the

Taly V Paragon Round 1000

this dayphase, regardless of our alignments.

so im almost certain your town, and the gamestate read i have above are correct.

[Taly]

I'm saying it's mostly in Paragon hands because without him, the tie that the game is currently in can't be solved, but a lot of agency on how this plays out as well? You've a vote, don't be pessimistic like that?

Even if things go wrong as well, I thought about it and want the message of this game to be "it's OK to be wrong". In fact I don't think we taking away the victory from eyesott right now is glorious at all because he put a pretty good perfomance until now and the only reason we're here might be the stacked setup. I would be ok with eyesott winning here by this point.

Then yeah, to both you/Paragon supposing you're town Taly,

it's OK to be wrong.

That's all.

V/LA until Tuesday's morning.

p-edit: I can see what you're talking about but I would rather focus on today. Thinking too much ahead is a moot point. Yesterday you thought I would turn into you but the game went in unexpected ways. The same can happen tomorrow. Live in the moment.

oh,

eye

AND

alo

have played a wonderful game, im actually really surprised with their ability, especially in a playerlist with multiple seasoned players. theyve also been the LAST people in the playerlist to actually garner concrete suspicion, which is a feat in any plist that is larger than a Micro.

and yeah, i have gotten invested in this game to being overly competitive and lashing out at others... which isnt like me, and i dont want this behavior to reflect me in future games.

i have no problem with anyone in this game, and actually, i like playing with all 4 of you

para/churros/eye/alo

. dont know if you feel the same way but i wouldnt be sensitive if you felt differently, haha.

but yeah, i do see a solve right now, im going to heed your advice, and we'll see.

p-edit

To be completely frank I'm not 100% on town!you as much as I think that eyesott/Alo with those interactions make more sense as well considering how you vs Alo acted around him today. Your claim makes plenty of sense to me as well considering we may have a scum!neapolitan. I'm not hedging in scum!you this dayphase because I'm doing that, I'm living in the moment.

If we get eye lynched today I'm surely getting NK tonight, and I think you're townier than Alo rn, therefore I'm taking things simple. Even if I wouldn't be NK'ed, I would still do this teamwork with you and take things simple until tomorrow. This is coming from someone that worried a lot about later days as town instead of focusing in the current thing. It never helped me.

In fact, you constantly hedging on scum!Eyesott and defending me, but in the end not voting eyesott, makes me slightly more paranoid of you but I'm gonna chalk it up for now as you being super cautious.

oh no, ive been scumreading

eye

pretty hard since his claim of checking

Paragon

last night.

im just not officially voting yet until i give a nuanced assessment, it feels the most fair.