In post 197, Klick wrote:The immediate questioning of it by Solon/particularly Tanner reads a bit like scum who don't want town getting easy towncred.
You sure? In my next post I had Elmo as Town.
Hadn't gotten there yet, I was going post-by-post. Looking at it now on my phone I kinda like your progression on Elmo there.
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:16 pm
by Raya36
In post 192, Elmo TeH AzN wrote:Right now as a whole your case seems to be based that I'm town reading two people who are townreading me and based on my
13 post. Aside that don't you think if I wanted to look worse Id have voted Math like was wanted. No because right now I see math as a null. And the top scum read I have is being replaced.
Also that you only said you were aiming for transparency after dunn suggested that. And also that you said overki11's vote on you was bad. I'm honestly not sure what you mean about wanting to look worse.
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:21 pm
by Raya36
Klick had a good entrance so town
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:31 pm
by TheWizard
Do not speculate as to why anyone may have replaced out or whether alignment information can be drawn from a replacement.
In post 192, Elmo TeH AzN wrote:Right now as a whole your case seems to be based that I'm town reading two people who are townreading me and based on my
13 post. Aside that don't you think if I wanted to look worse Id have voted Math like was wanted. No because right now I see math as a null. And the top scum read I have is being replaced.
Also that you only said you were aiming for transparency after dunn suggested that. And also that you said overki11's vote on you was bad. I'm honestly not sure what you mean about wanting to look worse.
Yes because I'm not the best at communication. I figured leaving a train of thought as obvious as I was trying was enough and people would have figured out what I was doing. Yes I called the vote bad as the vote was bad. The reason was garbage much like your case on me.
What I mean is if I wanted to look like an obvious scum why wouldn't I have just sheeped reads harder? And just placed my votes all willy nilly.
The more we go back and forth the more I can think you are not scum but I've been wrong.
Unvote
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:51 pm
by MariaR
Raya has a really good catchup I don't mind putting them down as town for now. Looking at the people on Maths wagon I think Looker is fine so I wouldn't want to vote there.
Let me go read over the people on my own wagon which is quite odd to even begin with.
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:01 pm
by MariaR
Solon feels weird but I think that's because the way they type just rubs me the wrong way. I'd want to see them posting more. The little interaction they got when they weren't talking in that strange cheery voice was meh but nothing that I'd feel confident putting a vote on.
Dunnstral is fine for now, has pretty bad reasoning for a lot of his posting. But it's bold. Curious where the townreads are coming from on him considering the fact he's just coming in and not doing much.
In post 197, Klick wrote:First of all, I think replacing out post-N0 flip is a huge towntell here. Town are sufficiently less motivated in this situation compared to scum (and probably SK? not sure, gut says no one would want to replace out of an SK slot). This says good things about my slot, alban, and Solon. Unless there's some strong reason to think otherwise, lynching any of them would be silly today, just by the odds.
Wrong, replacing out for reasons we have no idea about should be treated as NAI we can never tell if it's from motivation from the game or not. If I told you I wasn't motivated would you tr me or any other slot? Would you scumread someone who was? Are you using this logic to look at how others are treating those slots?
In post 197, Klick wrote:The immediate questioning of it by Solon/particularly Tanner reads a bit like scum who don't want town getting easy towncred.
You sure? In my next post I had Elmo as Town.
Hadn't gotten there yet, I was going post-by-post. Looking at it now on my phone I kinda like your progression on Elmo there.
Hm, conflicted
Tanner is by far the worst out of all the people voting me. A lot of his posts just feel empty like he's talking just to up the post count. His best post was randomly speaking about the Elmo tr unprompted, but besides that it's meh. VOTE: Tanner
I wish I was townreading more people on my wagon because that would've made me feel better and I can already tell the angle this post is gonna get because of it but ah well.
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:02 pm
by MariaR
Knight looks good. He's in a tunnel and his tone comes off like he really believes the read.
There's no way all scum are on my wagon that's legit stupid. So, where am I wrong in my reads? Meh, I'll think this over tomorrow I'm tired
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:54 pm
by Klick
In post 207, MariaR wrote:Dunnstral is fine for now, has pretty bad reasoning for a lot of his posting. But it's bold. Curious where the townreads are coming from on him considering the fact he's just coming in and not doing much.
You say he's fine, but the words that come after it don't sound like he's fine.
I'll just say that I disagree about the bit we can't talk about.
It would definitely make sense for town to be demotivated in this setup to start, to the point where a lack of activity is a towntell. Other reasons for a lack of activity may exist, but without knowing, odds favor it being credited to the crippling start. I'd say this demotivation is particularly telling if someone stops caring about winning the game to a certain degree.
Of course, that excuse no longer exists now that it's being talked about.
Sell me on Tanner?
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:13 pm
by Looker
In post 196, Tanner wrote:Someone asked my why I thought Elmo Town, and just their posts seemed a bit weird/over the top in a way I wouldn't expect from scum in a game where they already have a massive advantage? They're pushing for activity when it definitely wouldn't be necessary for scum.
That's not an observation I really trust. What would be the penalty for town taking an active role in this gamestate? Do you disagree with Raya's initial assertion that scum would take a leading role? I think you're feeling that town is more disadvantaged than it really is. Saying we lost from the onset was a joke. We're still going to win.
In post 199, Tanner wrote:I like Klick's catchup, other than maybe the Math read. To be fair I have been not as much attention to this game as I maybe should have.
It's 9 pages.
In post 207, MariaR wrote:I wish I was townreading more people on my wagon because that would've made me feel better and I can already tell the angle this post is gonna get because of it but ah well.
@Klick: Do you really feel anything alignment-indicative can be said right off-bat? Don't you need actions to back that type of stuff up...?
Klick's entrance shifted Tanner to MariaR
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:14 pm
by Looker
In post 211, Looker wrote:That's not an observation I really trust. What would be the penalty for
town
*scum
sorry in a rush
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:20 pm
by Klick
In post 211, Looker wrote:@Klick: Do you really feel anything alignment-indicative can be said right off-bat? Don't you need actions to back that type of stuff up...?
I'm not sure what you're referring to here, sorry. Could you rephrase?
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:23 pm
by Elmo TeH AzN
In post 211, Looker wrote:@Elmo: Crawl or not, watch me win this, lol
Just leaving this here. And Ill be sure to watch. My vote stays. Thanks for that.
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:36 pm
by Looker
@Klick, in that post I linked, you said I wasn't saying anything alignment-indicative and that I was just messing around and not playing.
@Elmo, you're not voting anybody
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:01 am
by Klick
The way you went about the first few pages felt... crafted, if that makes sense? Like there's a shield up. It's easy and natural for anyone of any alignment to keep swapping their vote around while waiting for something interesting to happen. In contrast, I feel like several other players told one way or the other earlier on by giving what little thoughts they had on the gamestate in earnest.
It's not really a criticism as much as it is a difference in playstyle. Not having much to read you off of now is fine, as long as you give us more as the game progresses. It's still narratively early.
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:37 am
by Tanner
Oh look, as soon as there's votes on Maria, suddenly my posts are bad. Sure.
In post 196, Tanner wrote:Someone asked my why I thought Elmo Town, and just their posts seemed a bit weird/over the top in a way I wouldn't expect from scum in a game where they already have a massive advantage? They're pushing for activity when it definitely wouldn't be necessary for scum.
That's not an observation I really trust. What would be the penalty for town taking an active role in this gamestate? Do you disagree with Raya's initial assertion that scum would take a leading role? I think you're feeling that town is more disadvantaged than it really is. Saying we lost from the onset was a joke. We're still going to win.
What do you mean about a penalty? I disagree more than not, yeah. In my experience scum doesn't do things if they don't *have* to do them. And with that big of a leap at the start, Town was gonna be low motivation.
I've heard of one previous run of this setup where two Townies died Night 0. Town lynched scum back-to-back 3 Days. Then mislynched single time and lost. And we're arguably worse off because both the Cop and Doc are dead. So.
There's no way all scum are on my wagon that's legit stupid. So, where am I wrong in my reads? Meh, I'll think this over tomorrow I'm tired
I don't agree with your scumreads, I don't have a lot of scumreads but you are one of them, and your posts + my reads make a lot of sense with scum you in mind
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:05 am
by Knightmare491
Maria feels very calm tonally, is that normal for her as any alignment?
@Anyone who's played with her before
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:58 am
by MariaR
In post 210, Klick wrote:You say he's fine, but the words that come after it don't sound like he's fine.
I say he’s fine because he’s null. The townreads I want people to explain, plus my expectations for Dunn are higher than others. To be fair, if someone was playing like this that wasn’t Dunn I would probably vote them.
Normally people tend to scumread or call reads fake if you scumread people on your own wagon because it’s seen as convenient. So I was hoping I would townread the people on my wagon to avoid such a situation where that happens and people use it as an excuse. But as you can see:
In post 217, Tanner wrote:Oh look, as soon as there's votes on Maria, suddenly my posts are bad. Sure.
We get stuff like this.
In post 218, Dunnstral wrote:I don't agree with your scumreads, I don't have a lot of scumreads but you are one of them, and your posts + my reads make a lot of sense with scum you in mind
Then you should comment more on who those scumreads are and commit to a read because right now you’re just saying things that you can shift to look better on the gamestate. Right now you’re just using buzzwords. Where as if you said ‘Maria makes sense with x scum’ at the moment you’d have to back that up when I flip town. The fact you’re just shifting around and not explaining isn’t good.
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:01 am
by MariaR
Tanner makes exactly 1 reads list and besides for I believe 3 people he has them as 'need to see more' and while that in and of itself isn't really an issue considering how slow the game is you can give that the BOTD. But, the rest of his iso is mainly filler combined with probably the most forced entrance in the game. The tone shift between his first 2 posts should help explain that enough.
Really I feel like he's been a presence in this game a lot more than others, but not a useful one. Compare that to someone like Elmo who you can clearly see is doing things and trying to solve the game vs Tanner who has almost the same number of posts you can see the dif here.