Mafiascum.net

In post 197, midwaybear wrote:Can you explain what you mean by perspective shift? I do townlean IV, but I don't understand how you derived it from the posts you quoted.

Getting so hung up over how a question like the one he asked looks means he's self-conscious about slips and how they can be read. I've made a very similar string of posts like that as town before, and I think it's weird and a hard thing to fabricate as scum, since the paranoia won't exist if you're scum since your aim with the question is to look towny for not knowing the answer in the first place, not to try and discount any way it can be read alignment-wise.

Wait...
Is mafia goon just a mafia traitor open wolfing?

In post 200, Mafia Goon wrote:

In post 197, midwaybear wrote:Can you explain what you mean by perspective shift? I do townlean IV, but I don't understand how you derived it from the posts you quoted.

Getting so hung up over how a question like the one he asked looks means he's self-conscious about slips and how they can be read. I've made a very similar string of posts like that as town before, and I think it's weird and a hard thing to fabricate as scum, since the paranoia won't exist if you're scum since your aim with the question is to look towny for not knowing the answer in the first place, not to try and discount any way it can be read alignment-wise.

Yeah, but as scum you would also be paranoid that people think you are scum trying to dumb tell.

Then there's no reason to make those posts in the first place. He won't be townread for a dumbtell that he's hyper aware of. Note, I'm not townreading him for the dumbtell itself.

In post 201, midwaybear wrote:Wait...
Is mafia goon just a mafia traitor open wolfing?

No, not a traitor. Just a regular old mafia goon who hasn't looked at my partner(s).

In post 196, midwaybear wrote:Meh the reasoning for voting BM was ok, but I do agree that the jab at Nosferatu was pretty scummy.

Okay... where's the vote then?

I don't like the reasoning for voting BM. How did you feel when he backed off you? You were the one who was interacting with the most (tbf I didn't really through the whole wall wars, too many nested quotes and I got confused) so you should have the best sense of this. There's no reason that it's necessarily scummy to back off after grilling someone for a bit, which is BM's style anyway, and it seems more likely that lurkerscum!rock just needed some easy content to pass off as analysis. Like tell me genuinely why what he described specifically could be reasonably interpreted as scum motivated with some amount of thought and confidence.

That and the Nosferatu vote seems like an incredibly superficial analysis which he seems unnaturally confident in and I don't believe that he's read your wall wars in their entirety. Neither of these feel much like a real town process.

In general I hate these kinds of lurking catchup posts that just cast shade on people for superficial reasons without mentioning any townreads. As scum I get upset when townies get into a wall war with each other and subsequently unvote each other. I get upset when town forms townblocs. It's natural for scum!me to want to cast doubt on these. The fact that this is the material he decided to include in his catchup post is particularly incriminating for me.

Yeah next time I'll maybe just PM the mod instead if have this kind of question or ask in the Mafia Discussion thread.

In post 199, Mafia Goon wrote:Pedit: IF you're my partner, Launchy, you can just say. No one will take you seriously and this game will become a lot easier.

I could be! I haven't looked at my scum PT either

Exciting! We could have different scum PTs then.

wrong game sorry

what do you guys think of ready2rock, Mafi I see you've joined my wagon

Nothing, he's got 4 posts and 2 reads. don't agree that BM was uncharitable to midway, but i only skimmed that, if someone thinks this is a super important interaction please make the case

I pretty much agree with your reasons for pressuring him, Inin.

In post 213, Mafia Goon wrote:I pretty much agree with your reasons for pressuring him, Inin.

I agree, excellent reasons.

In post 184, innocentvillager wrote:

In post 178, Blair wrote:Happy birthday, Umlaut!

FoS: Ready2Rock

VOTE: ready2rock I can get behind this

There can objectively be no better reasoning.

In post 191, innocentvillager wrote:

In post 187, Blair wrote:

In post 184, innocentvillager wrote:

In post 178, Blair wrote:Happy birthday, Umlaut!

FoS: Ready2Rock

VOTE: ready2rock I can get behind this

This post has a higher probability of becoming important later than most.

Is this just like an associations thing? Like it makes me/rock a less likely team?

When you, Ready2Rock, or Midway flip, I'll be referring back to this post to draw ~conclusions~

In post 205, innocentvillager wrote:

In post 196, midwaybear wrote:Meh the reasoning for voting BM was ok, but I do agree that the jab at Nosferatu was pretty scummy.

Okay... where's the vote then?

I don't like the reasoning for voting BM. How did you feel when he backed off you? You were the one who was interacting with the most (tbf I didn't really through the whole wall wars, too many nested quotes and I got confused) so you should have the best sense of this. There's no reason that it's necessarily scummy to back off after grilling someone for a bit, which is BM's style anyway, and it seems more likely that lurkerscum!rock just needed some easy content to pass off as analysis. Like tell me genuinely why what he described specifically could be reasonably interpreted as scum motivated with some amount of thought and confidence.

That and the Nosferatu vote seems like an incredibly superficial analysis which he seems unnaturally confident in and I don't believe that he's read your wall wars in their entirety. Neither of these feel much like a real town process.

Pedit: oops looks like you are catching up

In general I hate these kinds of lurking catchup posts that just cast shade on people for superficial reasons without mentioning any townreads. As scum I get upset when townies get into a wall war with each other and subsequently unvote each other. I get upset when town forms townblocs. It's natural for scum!me to want to cast doubt on these. The fact that this is the material he decided to include in his catchup post is particularly incriminating for me.

@blair he did elaborate here.
@IV to answer your question. I voted BM for his whole thing about me being scummy but maybe town, so that’s why I said r2r’s reason on that front was ok. You can interpret what BM did there as a sort of hedge where he refuses to really commit to a stance about me which is generally scummy. After interacting with him, I feel a little better.
I hope I can post more tomorrow. I think I will VOTE: Ydrasse. I see merit in the Nosferatu wagon, but I think this is fine too.

In post 216, midwaybear wrote:@blair he did elaborate here.

You misunderstand. I wasn't mocking him for failing to explain his read.

I was praising him for sheeping my glorious read.

i sheep this

VOTE: ready2rock

i don't think that ready2rock's statement about nosferatu is really that confident though, tbf. "very combatitive" is strong wording ig but given that it's pinned on as an afterthought i'd argue that there isn't a lot of heart in it.

In post 179, Nosferatu wrote:

In post 176, ready2rock wrote:That all being said I don't like Nosferatu's entrance into the game all that much either, very combative

ill fight u on that

whats bad about being combative

A fair point, I think I was thrown off by it because it felt like a disproportionate response to the level of pressure on you.

That part of my post also had a thread of connection in my head because I was talking about where BM's reads felt strange to me and granting that there was an element of BM's reads that I saw some merit in (namely, his read on you). But it was in part shade and I can see how it came across to people as exclusively that.

Vote's still on BM btw because he hasn't said a word since then

In post 186, innocentvillager wrote:i think BM leans town and 176 from rock felt weird. I hate the reason for voting BM and the side dig on Nosferatu both of which I disagree with

Why do you disagree? What makes you read BM town (which it sounds like you're implying here)?

To clarify a bit, my case is that in his read of midway, especially his ISO analysis post, he presents every post and basically waves his arms and says "see? this is clearly scum!" There's almost no "this isn't too bad" or "I could see this coming from misled town, but..." and this is what I meant by uncharitable. It felt so confident for page 5, and made the fact that he completely changed course feel strange as well.


I’m super unsure on what Dunn is trying to accomplish with 192 and 194. Did he think midway was L-1? Does he think that his case from half the game ago is actually compelling enough to just recycle as reason to put him at this supposed L-1? I kinda want to say that this is too careless to come from scum. Been wrong on that before, but I'll go with that for now

In post 203, Mafia Goon wrote:Then there's no reason to make those posts in the first place. He won't be townread for a dumbtell that he's hyper aware of. Note, I'm not townreading him for the dumbtell itself.

I think there’s not a real reason to make a post like this D1. Maybe later if solving the setup becomes relevan/we get more info on the setup, but not this early. At the same time I agree with others that it doesn't point in either direction towards alignment

In post 211, innocentvillager wrote:what do you guys think of ready2rock, Mafi I see you've joined my wagon

I think this is the most posts I've made before a wagon formed on me in a while

@Blair Do you have a read?

Still would like to hear from BM on answering questions I asked in my previous post

OK so bear with me, trying to help people understand what I'm talking about here

Please read the post for yourself and point out if you feel I'm misrepresenting or missing a time he did it here, but what I'm doing is trying to hone in on the places in the iso analysis where BM makes a "ruling" on whether something midway did is town or scum indicative. Line break indicates talking about a new post in the ISO

In post 110, Battle Mage wrote: some players are just like this. This isn't consistent however...

Out of nowhere, a bit of banter about being scum. Then an awkward segue "aaaaanyways..."

sounds like an informed minority[...]scummy answers to the 4 questions.

which I think is slightly scum-indicative, as town are often more liberal with their allegiances.

In the last game I played with Midway, this same approach was used, and the same conversation ensued about why it was done. Why ask the question if he already knows the answer? Just playing dumb.

Non-serious question misleadingly framed as a serious one.

In post 69, midwaybear wrote:

Why do you scumread me?

nuff said.

Probably about the time scum might consider this at risk of looking conspicuous. Midway needs to make another vote and wants to make it sound serious so he looks like he is progressing the game. More marks for presentation than substance.

And it's all "slight scummy" "here's why this has scum motivations" "misleading" "informed minority" "playing dumb" "nuff said"

Only one place (at the very beginning) does he give any form of a benefit of the doubt, then immediately undercuts it

I guess I'm not seeing what the town reasoning is for painting someone as this scummy with this much confidence this early in the game, and on top of that, being willing to throw away this supposed conviction based off basically 1 post from someone else

This is why I'd still like to know from BM when the read on midway changed, if at all

I like these posts from redrock. Are you misgooned often? Also, that's your one wall used from your daily wall quota. Please don't go over your limit like midway or BM.

Ydrasse's wagon hop is strange because she says she's sheeping it but then provides a point against the arguments for why redrock is scum. What points were worth sheeping, Ydrasse?

VOTE: Ydrasse

midway's tone is weird and possibly scummy, but to assess whether he's scum would mean reading through the wall of wars and probably looking at his mislaunch meta. Ah, well, maybe I'll do it if we're both alive at lylo.

Dunnstral has been very lacklustre.

In post 222, Mafia Goon wrote:like these posts from redrock

ehh they’re okay I guess... what do you like