Micro 960: A Year of Miccros II - Game Over

[Raven Branwen]

erm excuse you raven, i am a town lover which is obviously the strongest town power role there is, how dare you

on a more serious note, yeah, dsjstr started with "there's probably a liar in the three power roles" to "pooky is obviously lying but i don't wanna vote him in case quickhammer" to "nevermind power roles are fine, it's raven/datisi"

now tell me that scum!dsjstr lays off his "pooky is scum" theory if pooky is actually town here and dsjstr sees me hardpushing pooky... oh yeah, he doesn't.

This is why I asked him to explain those two posts because the first one sounds like he’s sr dsjstr but the second one tr him.

[Raven Branwen]

also yeah, scum!me, as townread as i was, never confirms town!skitter there. come on now. it was gonna be another juicy day of arguments going nowhere.

Exactly!

[Raven Branwen]

@Pooky, could you please respond to 3365? Thanks.

[Raven Branwen]

i wouldn't confirm skitter's friendly neighbor as scum period lol

oh wait that doesn't work like that right

i know i would confirm her fn if i received it and I was scum

What's the point of this argument even

Gonna wait for a vc but prob voting pooky

Why is this scummy? This is why dsjstr’s argument makes no sense right?

[Raven Branwen]

i think theres a decent chance you are deathtunneled town in this game so if we make it to lylo together the scum will win. its better for me to exit today and get rid of this distraction. good luck dats

I’ll say what I said to djstr. if you’re town, this is gamethrowing.

[Raven Branwen]

I am helping you out here by telling you to remove me from the lylo. it would be a liability at this point to include me since you don't even believe my role would exist in this game.

How is this helping us out if you’re town? Do you think dsjtr is town then?

[Raven Branwen]

The v/la wasn't the problem

then i don't understand what you're trying to say and can you just answer the question plz?

I believe you are asleep now so you can see what I saw tomorrow morning, I have no idea what you were trying to say.

If I was right about the 3 PR's then you can see how clearly fmpov it is raven/dats, I don't see how

koba

could have been scum.

I can’t believe anyone is tr this.

[Raven Branwen]

If I'm wrong then I'd like to be the hammer today.

can you explain why you want to be hammer today?

I have many many many town games where I am the elim in ELO, I'd like to avoid that.

note that dsjstr, who currently thinks it's datisi/raven (i think at least...?) saw me somewhat successfully convincing skitter to vote for pooky and this is like the only thing he had to say about the whole thing

though am i insane for wanting to execute him tomorrow after pooky flip?

I think there’s a chance Pooky could be town, I see don’t see how dsjtr can be. How is Pooky scummier thzn dsjstr? Which do you think is scummier, being caught lying about a vig role or repeatedly contradicting what you’re saying about A) wanting to be the hammer. B) Flipfloppng on his you/me scumteam read based on whether or not I vote for Pooky. C) continuing to push this narrative while still insisting not only that Skitter needs to be confirmed but that he is the most logical person to do it, when by the sheer fact that Pooky is the one slot guaranteed not to die tonight, it would logically be him not dsjtr?

I also can’t see how anything dsjstr is doing is coming from a townie mindset and unless anyone can convince me I’m wrong about that, I’m not unvoting him.

[Raven Branwen]

I think dsjstr is very likely scum for a couple of reasons. He was trying to get me to vote Pooky while still pushing a Dats/Skitter scumteam.

A) This is something I did as scum - tried to push a wagon I had no intention of voting. 2) pushing multiple scumreads that clearly contradict each other:

B) Too many PRs/Dats/me scumteam/Skitter still needs to be confirmed etc.

C). Claiming to want to be the hammer, yet still doing everything possible and in an extremely scummy way to avoid it.

Whether or not dsjtr is just individually scummy or is actually partners with Pooky, he is by far my more confident sr of the two, because while I can see some possible town motivation for what Pooky is doing, I can see none in dsjstr.

[Raven Branwen]

If I'm wrong then I'd like to be the hammer today.

can you explain why you want to be hammer today?

I have many many many town games where I am the elim in ELO, I'd like to avoid that.

note that dsjstr, who currently thinks it's datisi/raven (i think at least...?) saw me somewhat successfully convincing skitter to vote for pooky and this is like the only thing he had to say about the whole thing

though am i insane for wanting to execute him tomorrow after pooky flip?

maybe slightly :#
i feel like pooky could be scum with dsj
in a worst case scenario tho i also feel like pooky is easier to solve than dsj in f5. pooky's claim also means he's like guaranteed to be alive tomorrow so there's some microscopic utility add in having him confirm skitter

Yes because whether or not Pooky actually is A) town bomb B) town something else C) scum, he is 100% not dying and the obvious choice to possibly townlock Skitter and I can’t see how having Skitter be 100% confirmed is a bad thing.

I agree with that too be because dsjtr’s posts make me want to gauge out my eyes, so I don’t have to keep reading them.

[Raven Branwen]

Why is this scummy? This is why dsjstr’s argument makes no sense right?

i feel like pooky is picking arguments over things that don't actually matter to make dats look bad

and what about dsjtr insisting on a me/Dats scumteam, when his reasoning is solely based off of Dats/bugs and not Dats/me interactions?

[Raven Branwen]

raven

did you read my wallpost? like genuine question

Yes I did and I’m not saying you’re not making valid points because you obviously are, I just think that dsjtr is obviously scummier and your wall post does nothing to convince me that Pooky isa better vote today than dsjstr.

Pooky could well be scum but I don’t think it’s almost impossible that dsjtr isn’t. Sorry but I still want him dead.

[Raven Branwen]

unless you're positing me/dats (which nobody is), i'm functionally conftown

I have already made it abundantly clear what my stance is on that. The only ones doubting you at all, are dsjtr and maybe SS.

But the difference is that dsjtr made a huge deal about that, which doesn’t make sense if he’s convinced on a Dats/me scumteam. That’s been basically my point, nothing he’s posted recently has made any sensr. Do you disagree with that?

[Raven Branwen]

@Skitter, you and Dats should vote for Pooky if that is what makes the most sense to you. To me, I can’t see how Pooky is scummier than dsjstr and I have to vote my strongest sr.

[Raven Branwen]

deadass my biggest fear rn is us executing dsjstr, him flipping scum, pooky making up some arguments about "oh i was right on the game state dsj was actually scum" and y'all believe him and town ends up losing

pedit: skitt no this isn't the scum PT

im actually pretty worried dsj is town here

Then who is scum, then?

[Raven Branwen]

deadass my biggest fear rn is us executing dsjstr, him flipping scum, pooky making up some arguments about "oh i was right on the game state dsj was actually scum" and y'all believe him and town ends up losing

pedit: skitt no this isn't the scum PT

im actually pretty worried dsj is town here

Then who is scum, then?

lets say i am lynched today.

assuming tw dies in the night and flips bg and someone else confirms skitter as FM tommorrow, then I think the scum would be SS/Raven in the endgame.

if tw doesnt die and skitter dies- I think there is a strong chance tw/SS are the scum.

if datisi dies and tw lives - I also think it would be tw/SS as scum but this is the hardest scenario imo.

I don’t understand how you’re tr dsjtr over SS/me here.

How is it I have been linked with almost every player in this game? This obviously doesn’t make sense, so again this logic ought to lead to you tr me based off of this.

[Raven Branwen]

that was not addressed to the worst but uhhh the existance of tw/s_s scumteam is also cool

i dont think tw/ss can be scumteam cuz would mean town would only have 1 PR

???

Aren’t you claiming bomb?

[Raven Branwen]

i meant tw/skitter

Um . . . that’s two?

How do you forget you’re a PR here?

[Raven Branwen]

im scum with u dats, don'tcha know?

Can you two recruit me?

on it

Bu I want to be scum with Dats. *pouts*

[Raven Branwen]

ahhhhhhhh i kinda want to vote both dsjstr and pooky but i feel like it would be weird if they were scum together

I still lean more toward dsjstr but now I’m starting to doubt Pooky’s claim. Ugh.

[Raven Branwen]

also is it bad that i'm not really townreading ss anymore?

Pooky seems to be pushing him the hardest where as dsjstr insists he’s town. Not really sure what to make of that.

[Raven Branwen]

yeah that's what i'm settling on too
feel very good about town!dats

Agree.

[Raven Branwen]

I don't have any clue what your alignment is honestly, I keep going back and forth in my head

and

yes my play today makes a lot of sense as locktowned scum

. but that ignores the reasons I got locktowned in the first place.

??? Did you read this before you pressed “send”?

[Raven Branwen]

I’m coming around to thinking it may be a djstr/Pooky team but I have a bit of paranoia that it’s just too easy.

I know I’m town, Skitter is mech clear. TW is probably clear unless Skitter is NK’d. Dats is super obvtown. I dunno, I still thought Koba was really townie . . . so by PoE, that leaves djstr/Pooky.

Still prefer djstr. so I think I’ll keep my vote there.

I think it’s nice that he claims to be hard tr me but what about Dats? He should have cleared him as well.

@dsjstr, what is your current read on Dats? If you think I’m obvtown, shouldn’t you also be hard tr him as well now?

[Raven Branwen]

messed up quotes there,

my response is:


I am only slumslotting your slot in the event that tw dies in the night and skitter gets a 2nd visit confirmed

This is what is confusing me about your posting. I liked this answer for example

I'm just curious btw

if you are scum - is there a chess game in the Scum PT between Koba and Bugspray ?

but then you make this comment. Are you tl me or shading my slot, I really can’t tell.

[Raven Branwen]

skitter > tw > datisi > pooky > raven > dsjstr

don't @ me

You’re kidding right? How do you have me this low and btw you are not locktown, only Skitter is, because that means mech confitown but Dats comes extremely close to that.

[Raven Branwen]

skitter > tw > datisi > pooky > raven > dsjstr

don't @ me

You’re kidding right? How do you have me this low and btw you are not locktown, only Skitter is, because that means mech confitown but Dats comes extremely close to that.

Why the bolded? @SS?

[Raven Branwen]

i meant tw/skitter

Um . . . that’s two?

How do you forget you’re a PR here?

i mean tw/skitter can't be the scumteam because that would mean I am the only PR.

also cuz datisi got a pm from mod that skitter is FN

Oh sorry then, I misunderstood. Well Skitter is mech locktown and Dats is damned close to that, so I don’t understand why dsjstr is still voting him when he cleared me but I’ll have to wait for him to answer that.

[Raven Branwen]

actually Raven on reread your latest string of posts isn't as bad as I initially thought it was. Stuff like 3569 does rustle my jimmies though.

3585, I misunderstood his post.

[Raven Branwen]

I don't have any clue what your alignment is honestly, I keep going back and forth in my head

and

yes my play today makes a lot of sense as locktowned scum

. but that ignores the reasons I got locktowned in the first place.

??? Did you read this before you pressed “send”?

I don't see what's confusing about this, btw. If I'm scum here who got mistakenly universally townread, it's totally reasonable for me to lurk the day out and let town eat itself alive... but that assumes the reasons for me getting universally townread were wrong in the first place, which by definition they were unlikely to be.

It read like a weird contradiction, which is why I assumed it was some kind of typo or something like that.

[Raven Branwen]

fwiw I both think dsjstr's vote on datisi could be distancing and don't buy datisi's argument that he wouldn't have confirmed skitter as scum here

I don’t know if he would or not but have you read any Dats’ scumgames? He plays very differently as scum from how he’s playing here.

[Raven Branwen]

have you read any Dats’ scumgames?

I don't believe so

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=32624

Here’s a very recent one. He lacks the conviction I’m seeing here and many of his posts are fluff.

[Raven Branwen]

im scum with u dats, don'tcha know?

Can you two recruit me?

on it

Bu I want to be scum with Dats. *pouts*

@Dats, I said that not duckling.

[Raven Branwen]

are you genuinely thinking about killing me here?

well you just had the same reaction I did to someone trying to reintroduce me to the execution pool

so no, not really

dsj flips scum -> we can probably just kill you/raven and be happy

dsj flips town -> something is rotten in the state of denmark. is it datisi? is it tw? who knows, really, we get to have a real fun and by fun I mean not fun lylo to figure that one out.

Hmmm . . .

[Raven Branwen]

fwiw I both think dsjstr's vote on datisi could be distancing and don't buy datisi's argument that he wouldn't have confirmed skitter as scum here

So, how do you have me linked with dsjtr then? I’m voting him because I don’t buy his Dats/me progression, his exaggerated paranoia on Skitter/His dropping his too many PR thing to push that.

And while I would ordinarily like him locktowning me, the fact that his initial reasoning for pushing a Dats/me scumteam was totally based off of associatives he claimed to see between Dats/bugs. So how does he townlock me here but still push/vote Dats?

[Raven Branwen]

Oh sorry then, I misunderstood. Well Skitter is mech locktown and Dats is damned close to that, so I don’t understand why dsjstr is still voting him when he cleared me but I’ll have to wait for him to answer that.

Well pooky seems to be my only option to not get killed, but I'm not really sure why me seeing you as town would make me also see Dats as town.
VOTE: Pooky

fwiw I both think dsjstr's vote on datisi could be distancing and don't buy datisi's argument that he wouldn't have confirmed skitter as scum here

So, how do you have me linked with dsjtr then? I’m voting him because I don’t buy his Dats/me progression, his exaggerated paranoia on Skitter/His dropping his too many PR thing to push that.

And while I would ordinarily like him locktowning me, the fact that his initial reasoning for pushing a Dats/me scumteam was totally based off of associatives he claimed to see between Dats/bugs. So how does he townlock me here but still push/vote Dats?

Because you’re only reasoning for pushing Dats was based off of you thinking you saw associatives between him/bugs. If you think I’m town, then that means you no longer think that. Ergo, your entire reasoning for still sr Dats makes no sense.

[Raven Branwen]

dsj flips scum -> we can probably just kill you/raven and be happy

dsj flips town -> something is rotten in the state of denmark. is it datisi? is it tw? who knows, really, we get to have a real fun and by fun I mean not fun lylo to figure that one out.

Yes this one exactly.

Am I missing something @SS? Why does dsjtr flip affect your read on me in the slightest?

[Raven Branwen]

fwiw I both think dsjstr's vote on datisi could be distancing and don't buy datisi's argument that he wouldn't have confirmed skitter as scum here

This is a hot take
I'm not really sure I'm seeing dats as scum rn but I do agree that scum!dats probably does confirm skitter.

Isn’t that a contradiction @SS? You have me as a possible partner for dsjtr but you suspect Dats if he’s town?

[Raven Branwen]

I’d really like an answer to 3622 please.

[Raven Branwen]

I’d really like an answer to 3622 please.

I don't understand the question.

fwiw I both think dsjstr's vote on datisi could be distancing and don't buy datisi's argument that he wouldn't have confirmed skitter as scum here

This is a hot take
I'm not really sure I'm seeing dats as scum rn but I do agree that scum!dats probably does confirm skitter.

Isn’t that a contradiction @SS? You have me as a possible partner for dsjtr but you suspect Dats if he’s town?

You suggested that dsjtr could possibly be distancing Dats but you have me as possible scum if he flips scum and Dats as a possible scum if he flips town, so that really doesn’t make any sense to me.

[Raven Branwen]

his scum iso's tend to be flat, devoid of scumhunting, and his posts are more of the nature 'hi i'm still posting i'm still here' than, like, scumhunting. his reads change on a dime as convenient.

in his towngames, in contrast, tend to have a coherent thought process wherein you can see his reads and they follow through from post to post, and his posting tends to further his thoguth process/narrative

does anyone think the bolded describes dsjstr's game here?

I ISO’d him in the towngame you mentioned as well as two of his scumgames, so I think you’re right. I already explained how his Dats’s progression makes little sense.

[Raven Branwen]

like, for example, look at his progression on looker here:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=82026

He makes a lot of sense in that one and his posts don’t hurt my eyes in that game.

[Raven Branwen]

I townread Datisi independently of the belief that dsjstr/Datisi isn't ruled out by dsjstr voting Datisi.

However if dsjstr is town then the gamestate is much more likely to be significantly screwed because everyone except him has a decent reason to be town, so that makes Datisi-scum more plausible.

But what I still don’t understand is how your read on me is affected by that, specifically why you think there’s any associatives between him and me?

[Raven Branwen]

I’m here and my thoughts haven’t changed. I’ve pretty much said all there is to say I think

[Raven Branwen]

aw heck

ok we can hammer now

pedit: oh nvm

I never say “aw heck”.

[Raven Branwen]

raven i think i'm largely waiting for if you have anything to say - are you ready for today to end?

If you mean am I going to change my vote? No. It seems everyone else is done with the day, so no I have no objection if you hammer.

[Raven Branwen]

I feel pretty good about my vote, him locktowning me but not changing his read on Dats looked like a pocket.

[Raven Branwen]

dsjstr has been eliminated Day 2. He was

Commie Catgirl Coalition,

Vanilla Townie

from Micro 882

.

It is now Night 2. The deadline for Night 2 is in (expired on 2020-08-21 06:15:00).

Spoiler:

dsjstr

Welcome to Micro 960: Year of Miccros II.

You are

Commie Catgirl Coalition

, a

Vanilla Townie

from

Micro 882: Public Cop 9P

moderated by

northsidegal

.

PUBLIC COP 9P
	You are a Vanilla Townie . During the day, you have your voice, your vote, and your suspicions. You win when all members of the mafia are dead. The game thread is here. After reading this, please confirm by responding with your role.
///////

For this game, your role functions as a

Vanilla Townie

would under Normal guidelines.

The game thread is here.

You win when there are no longer any threats to the town, and at least one town player is alive.

Please confirm you have read and understood your role by replying with your alignment and the game number your role was taken from.

How? His only reason for suspecting Dats was his theory of him and bugs being aligned, so once he townlocked me, how could his read on Dats not change as well? :/

[Raven Branwen]

skitter30 has been Marked for Death Night 2. She will die at the end of Day 3.

It is now Day 3.

Votecount 3.00

Not Voting (6) -

Datisi, Something_Smart, Raven Branwen, PookyTheMagicalBear, the worst, skitter30

With 6 players alive it takes 4 to eliminate.

The deadline for Day 3 is in (expired on 2020-08-28 07:50:00).

What? Definitely not what I was expecting to wake up too. What tf kind of crazy game is this?

[Raven Branwen]

Ya

Pedit idk
That's why my first thought was Doubt at tw, like why kill me in this way over just letting him die ???

The fact that marking exists in the setup is obviously indicative of a protective role though

??? A protective role may exist but how are you coming up with this?

[Raven Branwen]

Is it bad that i feel like my solve is currently ss/pooky?

a) yes
b) are you saying that I would ask the mod the question that confirms my partner's claim as fake and then somehow not bus him
c) go read koba again
d) I would know better than to voluntarily enter mylo over lylo??

e) why do I kill lilith who is locktowning me

Datisi how are you feeling about Raven

I swear you keep answering this and yet I still don't know, it's very weird

And dsjtr was never going to vote me. Why did you never vote yesterday or check in with the VC?

[Raven Branwen]

I think scum saw a shiny toy and wanted to play with it

???

[Raven Branwen]

Scum might be people who:
- didnt find pooky's 'weird' claim to be that surprising on the face of it
- pushed back on me thinking this was normal-adjacent

Also town might be people who were very concerned about making sure the fn went through late in the day yesterday?

Not that it matters but who did you visit last night if you did?

[Raven Branwen]

Ya

Pedit idk
That's why my first thought was Doubt at tw, like why kill me in this way over just letting him die ???

The fact that marking exists in the setup is obviously indicative of a protective role though

Why tho. Bg doesnt do anything helpful here

+1

Exactly. @SS aren’t you supposed to be some mech genius or something?

[Raven Branwen]

My brain isn't really doing anything but abstract nonsense tonight
I'm kind of like secretly hyped by that MFD
but also kind of reeling that I'm still alive
but also I'm drunk tired
ily all goodnight

pedit: i could have blocked the n1 kill I guess? I'm not really ready to parse what the function of marking you but keeping me alive is either

Yeah, that’s what I was thinking most likely. But the mfd thing is totally confusing everything.

[Raven Branwen]

Why tho. Bg doesnt do anything helpful here

Sure it does, it stops a normal kill, which would otherwise be strictly better than a poison except for WIFOM reasons

But it obviously didn’t stop Skitter from being marked unless I misunderstood duckling’s claim, I don’t think so.

[Raven Branwen]

they... kill one of s_s/dats/raven tonight? though there may be more holes in the theory than i thought, and it's dependant on who flips today, if we even manage to get a sucmflip... it's not the most useful thing to think about at the time i guess.

I would think scum would kill duckling or you before me or SS? Because duckling would obviously protect you right? So we know that we have one regular scum and another marking one, so that’s why I think that’s most likely.

[Raven Branwen]

Is it bad that i feel like my solve is currently ss/pooky?

a) yes
b) are you saying that I would ask the mod the question that confirms my partner's claim as fake and then somehow not bus him
c) go read koba again
d) I would know better than to voluntarily enter mylo over lylo??

e) why do I kill lilith who is locktowning me

dsj flips scum -> we can probably just kill you/raven and be happy

dsj flips town -> something is rotten in the state of denmark. is it datisi? is it tw? who knows, really, we get to have a real fun and by fun I mean not fun lylo to figure that one out.

This post still pings me because Lilith didn’t think dsjstr was scum and that didn’t stop you from wanting him dead.

[Raven Branwen]

Why do you think it’s wild that dsj is voting aldus?

dsj consensus PoE & Aldus is the most vocal abt Tring him

Can’t tell if you mean that this makes dsjstr more or less towny

more.

Okay yes I agree. dsjstr is pretty high in my reads

I wish I had done this yesterday but dude was just acting so scummy :/

[Raven Branwen]

And dsjtr was never going to vote me. Why did you never vote yesterday or check in with the VC?

I never felt the need to end the day

Wdym "check in"

If we don’t end the day, we’d end up with a no lynch.

It was close to deadline and you hadn’t voted or posted and everyone else was posting closer to deadline.

[Raven Branwen]

???

They wanted to use the mark to bypass the BG even if it wasn't optimal

I suppose but the bg still has no effect on it.

[Raven Branwen]

bugs, is the pooping on your lawn some in-joke i'm missing or do ypu genuinely think duck is scum?

it's an in-joke and also i am very suspicious of him

ok, can you please elaborate on that

its mech thats all i really wanna say rn

i don't wanna be seen as RoLeFiShInG but if i'm not mightly curious how you have mech indication duck is scummy on day 1

@raven, do you know anything about this?

No sorry. I was suspicious of duckling at the time I repped in, so bugs being suspicious of him to was inline with my thoughts at the time. Incidentally, this post was one of the reasons I decided to rep in because this was one of the bugs’ posts that convinced me I would be repping into a town slot and I was very happy to be right about that.

My personal opinion wrt to duckling’s role is that I agree with Skitter and not SS or Pooky. I still don’t really see how a marking scum confirms it but I also don’t understand why Pooky thinks that if an mfd happens again it casts doubt upon it.

[Raven Branwen]

Hiya Skitter, Lillith. Good to see you guys again. I’m still not caught up but I agree with Skitter as far as being somewhat suspicious of the associative reads this early.

While at first I leaned town on duckling for seeming to advance the game forward, he does seem to be overdoing it a bit.

His read on my slot should be quite informative.

@Dats

[Raven Branwen]

this was one of the bugs’ posts that convinced me I would be repping into a town slot

elaborate?

Read my early posts, I was clearly mindmelding with bugs on duckling but my reasoning involved how hard he pushed Skitter. I just felt very confident that this was town!bugs, similar to how I was super confident on a town!you. Had I not had a confident tr on that slot I would have never repped into it. I made that mistake once on a different account where I was unsure on a slot and wound up regretting it, so I decided as a result of that if I’m not super confident on a read on a slot that’s being replaced, I just won’t sign up because few things are worse imo than replacing into a scumslot so I’m super careful as a result of being burned so badly previously.

[Raven Branwen]

i don't understand how that explains why those posts i quoted made you sure bugs is a town slot?

His entire ISO pretty much. If you think there’s a world where I ever would replace into a slot I didn’t hard tr - especially after that experience, I don’t know what to tell you. I just wouldn’t. I also think the fact that I felt good about you and you were also hard tr that slot helped convince me I was likely right.

[Raven Branwen]

@Dats, I’m very confused. Why are you even bringing up those posts? Haven’t you been hard tr that slot the entire game, so what happened to suddenly cause you to question your bugs’ tr? I don’t understand?

[Raven Branwen]

My personal opinion wrt to duckling’s role is that I agree with Skitter and not SS or Pooky. I still don’t really see how a marking scum confirms it but I also don’t understand why Pooky thinks that if an mfd happens again it casts doubt upon it.

mfd doesnt confirm it - SS trying to usd MFD to confirm it is what casts doubt on it.

I agree with that but I should have asked Micc this yesterday.

@mod, does a hypothetical bomb blow up marking scum or just regular scum? Thanks.

[Raven Branwen]

dsjstr has been eliminated Day 2. He was

Commie Catgirl Coalition,

Vanilla Townie

from Micro 882

.

this happened, raven.

Yes, it totally sucks that we misexecuted twice now and we’re in this position, so if scum isn’t in Pooky/SS, we’re probably fucked.

@SS can you please explain to me again why you’re so certain that mfd confirms tw because I don’t see it. I know you said that it’s suboptimal for scum since Skitter gets to be in LYLO but the fact is that the very existence of a mfd, clearly means that it can get around a bg. Otherwise Skitter wouldn’t be marked.

[Raven Branwen]

Let’s not rush this day. We need to look at every possibility or we straight up lose this, so please nobody vote until we have thoroughly examined this game from every possible angle.

[Raven Branwen]

the mark is designed to get around being blown up by the bomb. they are using it to justify tw not successfully protecting skitter - there is a good chance tw isnt even a bg at this point but im more convinced on flipping ss

So if your claim is true than the marking scum can’t ever be blown up. So why isn’t there a TPR that can get around the marking scum? That doesn’t seem right to me but my mech solve doesn’t fit with my PoE at all because I hard tr Dats, so if Micc confirms this I really don’t know what to make of it. Basically my mech solve is it makes more sense that both bomb and bg are in this setup but I can’t see Dats’ scum so that obviously can’t be right. Nothing about the mechanics of this setup really make sense. We should have a day TPR I think to balance this. I’m going to ask Micc about that post-game because this setup is very clearly scumsided independent of the verification of Pooky/duckling PR claims and since both telling the truth also messes with my PoE, that’s even worse.

[Raven Branwen]

am i insane for seeing pooky/raven here? maybe i am.

This game will literally go down in history as linking me to almost every player in the setup: aldus, dsjstr, you, now Pooky. If we weren’t in such a bad spot now due to aldus/dsjstr misexecutions, I’m probably find this hysterical.

@Dats, dsjst thought we were a team because of you/bugs interactions, then he townlocked me but didn’t change his read on you one iota. I couldn’t see how that wasn’t scummy, given that was his only reason for sr you, so I really don’t understand why you’re questioning my hard dsjtr sr. I still don’t understand how he is town with those illogical reads. I am still blown away by his flip.

[Raven Branwen]

who said i'm questioning your dsjstr scumread? i think that was fine.

Okay well I’m thoroughly confused then. The entire game you insisted that bugs almost executing Pooky made 0 sense if they were buddies and what does those posts bugs’ posts you quoted even have anything to do with Pooky? I’m totally not following. I hard sr dsjstr but was not sold on Pooky scum, so obviously you always want to execute your strongest sr and don’t want to risk misexecuting but like you, dsjster flipping town also fucks with my PoE if the team isn’t exactly Pooky/SS and if neither we lose but unless duckling is lying and no way can there possibly be a Pooky/tw scumteam because that would mean the game was seriously broken, so at least one of them mechwise has to be telling the truth. Had dsjtr flipped scum, I would think both because of mfd mechanic but that doesn’t fit. Something isn’t adding up and I will wrack my brain until I figure it out.

[Raven Branwen]

I think that makes sense that an FN isn’t enough to balance a marking scum mechanic.

[Raven Branwen]

those bugs' posts i quoted have nothing to do with pooky. i was rereading my notes and realized i forgot to ask you about them.

the whole game I've been insisting both bugs and s_s are town. i'm wrong on at least one. not sure why you're surprised i'm questioning you?

I was surprised that you questioned me about those posts specifically and suddenly thought I could be buddies with Pooky. I still don’t understand it.

[Raven Branwen]

I think we can rule out a Pooky/tw scumteam. Do you agree with this or not? FN isn’t enough to balance a marking scum mechanic.

So, if you’re town and I think we 100% autolose here if you aren’t, that has to point to either Pooky/SS or tw/SS because of the above and you’re still my strongest tr, so from my pov I don’t see how SS could be town unless this setup is seriously broken. But fortunately for us, we only need to figure out one scum today and whomever we think has the highest scum equity is probably our best bet since this is ELO not MELO. If we get one scumflip today, then we still have another chance.

[Raven Branwen]

@mod

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=115&t=71778

This is the mfd setup. @Pooky, what is the number of the game you claimed from again? It think it was Brass and Shrapnel right? Who’s game was that again? I don’t want to have to look up all of the entire year’s micros to find either.

[Raven Branwen]

I think we can rule out a Pooky/tw scumteam. Do you agree with this or not? FN isn’t enough to balance a marking scum mechanic.

So, if you’re town and I think we 100% autolose here if you aren’t, that has to point to either Pooky/SS or tw/SS because of the above and you’re still my strongest tr, so from my pov I don’t see how SS could be town unless this setup is seriously broken. But fortunately for us, we only need to figure out one scum today and whomever we think has the highest scum equity is probably our best bet since this is ELO not MELO. If we get one scumflip today, then we still have another chance.

it's more the fact that a friendly neighbor + 6vts vs 2 goons is unbalanced, but yeah i agree on ruling out tw/pooky.

is the tl;dr of this that you want to vote s_s today?

pedit: "i offered myself yesterday wah wah" l m f a o ok

No, I’m still undecided and Micc answering my question might hopefully help with that. My only confident sr this entire game: dsjtr turned out to be wrong, so what I’m saying is that it’s optimal that we don’t rush this day.

But rn, it’s probably between them unless we’re wrong about duckling?

Raven/Skitter
Dats
duckling
SS/Pooky

So that’s where I’m at rn.

[Raven Branwen]

here's the game: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=81087

MAFIA GOON

Welcome, [player name], you are a 

Mafia Goon

.
Abilities:
- Factional communication: At any time you may talk with your partners HERE
- Mark for Death: Each night phase, you and your partner must select a single target to "mark". The marked player will be publicly be confirmed as marked at the start of the following day, and will die at the same time as the following day's lynch is achieved.

Win Condition:
- You win if at least half of the living players are mafia.

Town Bomb

• Welcome, [Player Name], you are a
  Town Bomb
  .
  
  
  Abilities:
  
  
• If you are successfully shot at night (Blank Vig targets don't count), the player to shoot you will also die.
  
  
  Win condition:
  
  
• You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and at least one town player is still alive.

here's both role PMs

Thanks.

@mod?

[Raven Branwen]

My personal opinion wrt to duckling’s role is that I agree with Skitter and not SS or Pooky. I still don’t really see how a marking scum confirms it but I also don’t understand why Pooky thinks that if an mfd happens again it casts doubt upon it.

mfd doesnt confirm it - SS trying to usd MFD to confirm it is what casts doubt on it.

I agree with that but I should have asked Micc this yesterday.

@mod, does a hypothetical bomb blow up marking scum or just regular scum? Thanks.

@Dats

[Raven Branwen]

datisi makes me pull my hair out this game is so fustratingly stupid

shouldve just lynched me yesterday if you were going to be so stubborn jeasus

ur so bad lol

You are aware this isn’t helping.

[Raven Branwen]

My personal opinion wrt to duckling’s role is that I agree with Skitter and not SS or Pooky. I still don’t really see how a marking scum confirms it but I also don’t understand why Pooky thinks that if an mfd happens again it casts doubt upon it.

mfd doesnt confirm it - SS trying to usd MFD to confirm it is what casts doubt on it.

It still doesn’t make sense to me but you are not helping your case if you’re town here by venting.

[Raven Branwen]

town: let's lynch dsjtr
pooky: no Im townreading dsj - lynch me instead
town: lynches dsj
dsj flips town
town: ok time to lynch pooky

just lololol

You did change your read on him when he voted you but I’m still trying to decide and it looks like you’re giving up. We need an execution today, this isn’t MELO if you’re town you need to convince us on someone else. Rn, this just looks as you giving up.

[Raven Branwen]

also duck do you have like thoughts or something

SS is townier than raven atm

I don't really think Pooky is town like at all rn
I'd rather do a reread and like at a minimum try to double check scum!you or a raven/ss world
But also I'm kinda under the weather so I'm boycotting Thinking and Brain Things this weekend

What have you been eating in your birdseed? I was here at D2 EoD, SS wasn’t. I have been very clearly trying to figure out this game. And why aren’t you even considering the possibility that SS could possibly be pocketing you? I’m starting to doubt duckling again. :/

[Raven Branwen]

i mean....... unless you're trying to convince me this setup is actually 9town and 0mafia and in order to win we must overthrow moderation and execute micc......... you being not!scum would mean someone else is................

I could go for that but I’m pretty damn sure a Micc execution would lose us this game - if it even got counted. lmaooo

[Raven Branwen]

@mod, does a hypothetical bomb blow up marking scum or just regular scum? Thanks.

here's the game: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=81087

MAFIA GOON

Welcome, [player name], you are a 

Mafia Goon

.
Abilities:
- Factional communication: At any time you may talk with your partners HERE
- Mark for Death: Each night phase, you and your partner must select a single target to "mark". The marked player will be publicly be confirmed as marked at the start of the following day, and will die at the same time as the following day's lynch is achieved.

Win Condition:
- You win if at least half of the living players are mafia.

Town Bomb

• Welcome, [Player Name], you are a
  Town Bomb
  .
  
  
  Abilities:
  
  
• If you are successfully shot at night (Blank Vig targets don't count), the player to shoot you will also die.
  
  
  Win condition:
  
  
• You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and at least one town player is still alive.

here's both role PMs

Thanks.

@mod?

If that Mafia Goon targeted that Town Bomb with a Mark For Death, the Town Bomb's ability would not be triggered, so the Mafia Goon would not be killed.

Thanks. Wow, this game just keeps getting worse and worse. Maybe a Micc execution isn’t such a terrible idea after all. :/

[Raven Branwen]

Spoiler:

This is probably the shittiest case I've ever posted on anyone in lylo but SS doesn't really post much so there's not that much to attack - the focal point is in the reaction to Micc's response to SS's question and his general gameplay and playstyle that I find susp for being above the fray kind of. I have not examined or re-read SS games yet so if this is something he often does regardless of alignment then it would be difficult to place his alignment based on his style alone.



SS feels like he doesn't really care about the game because if you read through his ISO he basically is kind of floating above it all - he doesn't even put down a single vote - however he seems to be very aware of the game state - for example he seemed pretty sure that I was telling the truth about being a bomb quite early and I'm not sure a town-aligned player makes that jump so quickly. (Raven also makes the conclusion that I might be protown and lying but I feel much better about her belief in me than SS's belief in me - like when I read raven's posts I feel comfortable and like I kind of trust her - when I read SS's posts I feel there's something sinister there)

I got the feeling when Micc answered in thread and said I was lying about being a vig that SS couldn't believe how lucky he was:

Oh.

Well, any last words, Pooky?

This post feels like a mafia laughing at his incredible good fortune that a town player would lie about his role.

The mod just confirmed Pooky as lying, yes.

Twisting the knife

Anyone in particular i should be fn-ing?

I mean, if Pooky actually is scum then it doesn't matter.

This is a really good point, I don’t think I want to execute Pooky anymore, do it’s between SS/duckling now.

This post doesn't make a lot of sense to me coming from SS - shouldn't be so uncertain at that point in time of my scuminess - mod had already confirmed I was lying - don't know why he puts that qualifier there.


I've re-read the post Micc-saying that I'm lying about a vig section a few times now and SS's play feels the most unnatural to me of all the players - I would've thought it would be more believable as a town-reaction if he had voted me or not believed me but the way he posted makes me think he knew I was a town power role to begin with except I was lying about my role for whatever reason.

Exactly. @SS aren’t you supposed to be some mech genius or something?

I am. There's a big difference between killing someone tomorrow and killing them today. You may note that skitter is still alive and confirmed and can lead us in lylo. If not for the BG, they could (and would) have just killed her.

The mark is a strongman with a drawback. No point in having a strongman if there's nothing for it to bypass.

This post seems like an oversight for a "mech" genius - there is something for the mark to bypass - the bomb for example. Also the motivation for marking skitter rather than outright killing her is very simple - if they outright kill her then TW would be on the hook for not protecting her.

This is a really good point. I don’t think I want to execute Pooky anymore. So it’s between SS/duckling.

[Raven Branwen]

why weren't you on lilith ... ?

the confirmed vanilla?

this answer is weird to me

I don't understand why a BG would guard a vanilla townie - because even if you succeed - you basically traded a bg for a vanilla townie...

Agree, I actually did think Koba had softed something, so I didn’t find that strange but would duckling actually claim to bg a buddy? I suppose with this crazy game, anything’s possible.

[Raven Branwen]

The case in the post above this literally only makes sense if you've already decided SS is scum

why weren't you on lilith ... ?

the confirmed vanilla?

this answer is weird to me

I don't understand why a BG would guard a vanilla townie - because even if you succeed - you basically traded a bg for a vanilla townie...

also this is exactly what I'm saying there

I’m town, Dats is very likely to be town. Mechwise if you’re scum than this game seems very scumsided but rn, Pooky is looking townier than you but yeah it think it very possible that SS is either your buddy or possibly has a tmi if I’m wrong on on you, so why aren’t you even considering that as a possibility? It sounds like you’ve decided SS is town despite his confirming your role based on mfd mech which really doesn’t make a lot of sense to me, so why aren’t you even questioning that?

[Raven Branwen]

SS is townier than raven atm

??? go on

SS' opening to this phase felt more open minded / in line with town!SS

tw, explain why pooky is scum and why ss is townier than raven

Pooky is driving the fuck out of an agenda which I think Raven is pussyfooting around and I feel like SS has just had a considered approach to this phase that's more in line with what I'd be expecting to see coming from town here

I probably owe a reread but that's front of mind

Speaking of pussyfooting why aren’t you even questioning why the self-provlaimed mech genius thinks that the mfd mechanic confirms your role, because it doesn’t?

[Raven Branwen]

I don’t claim to be any kind of mech genius but based off my current PoE, this game looks extremely scumsided, which is why it really sucks so much for us that dsjstr flipped town but I trust my PoE read > my mech analysis and unless you’re dealing with a known setup, that’s usually the best way to proceed. I once hydra’d with Math who kept insisted that super obvtownie Kokichi’s role had to make them scum and in another game, Sakura and me both thought Math’s roleclaim confiscummed them. They and me were both wrong.

So I trust my Dats tr > my mech analysis but Pooky’s recent arguments really do make a lot of sense and I think we lose if we execute him today. I’m torn between tr duckling’s blowback to questioning how he doesn’t see how my thought process is so obviously coming from a townie place. Does anyone have any meta as whether scum!duckling responds to being sr like this?

[Raven Branwen]

The case in the post above this literally only makes sense if you've already decided SS is scum

why weren't you on lilith ... ?

the confirmed vanilla?

this answer is weird to me

I don't understand why a BG would guard a vanilla townie - because even if you succeed - you basically traded a bg for a vanilla townie...

also this is exactly what I'm saying there

I’m town, Dats is very likely to be town. Mechwise if you’re scum than this game seems very scumsided but rn, Pooky is looking townier than you but yeah it think it very possible that SS is either your buddy or possibly has a tmi if I’m wrong on on you, so why aren’t you even considering that as a possibility? It sounds like you’ve decided SS is town despite his confirming your role based on mfd mech which really doesn’t make a lot of sense to me, so why aren’t you even questioning that?

that's not what I'm doing.. pooky's case on SS only makes sense if he's already decided that SS is scum. I'll accept that maybe that makes sense in a town!Pooky world as well but even that feels like an applied read? Like I think it's really obvious Pooky is driving an agenda

pedit: well like if there isn't a town protective in the setup why would the MFD kill be here? it probably confirms 1+ town in {tw,Pooky} in a more literal sense but like I don't see why I would bat an eyelid at that because it's correct?

Yes, mfd kill does very likely confirm at least ONE of you as TPR but that isn’t what he said. He specifically said that it specifically confirmed YOUR role. Do you not understand why that doesn’t make sense? From hpov why couldn’t scum you and your buddy have planned to work around this? This seems like really bad reasoning from someone who claims to be a mech genius.

[Raven Branwen]

I was here at D2 EoD, SS wasn’t.

why is who was or wasn't here at EoD2 indicative of alignment in any way?

It often is because it’s strongly town indicative to be online close to deadline and eventhough he claimed to want to kill dsjstr, he said he wasn’t ready to end the day. Does that make any sense to you? And it specifically concerns me because he never voted or checked in during that time. If dsjstr had flipped scum, no I wouldn’t necessarily think that suspicious but how could he not even check into this game when he was posting elsewhere onsite? Yes, I hate to invoke ellitells but if he could post in nsg’s game, why would he not be more concerned about this one? It was near deadline after all and he hadn’t yet voted. It looked as if he was either okay with us no executing or didn’t feel he needed to vote the player he felt made lost sense as the D2 execution.

[Raven Branwen]

i feel like i could literally copy-paste my pooky wallpost from yesterday only in the context of s_s case

"twisting the knife" when in the literal post before i asked what Micc's post means (because I've never seen a mod literally confirm a player as lying before)

and what was one other point, s_s seemed sure pooky was scum but then said "if pooky flips scum"?? like what

SS claimed that mfd mechanic likely confirmed tw as bg but why hypothetically couldn’t scum!duckling have used mfd mechanic to work around that? It’s his certainty on duckling based off of that that pings me, because he claims to be a mech genius and even those of us who aren’t realize that doesn’t make any sense.

[Raven Branwen]

except i gave intent like almost 24 hours before day ended no?

He wanted dsjstr to be the kill, he didn’t either vote or check in. Why not is my question? Then his response to my questioning him about that is he wasn’t ready to end the day yet. But it was freaking close to deadline, how does that make any sense to you?

He just doesn’t really seem terribly invested in solving the game as he usually does as town.

[Raven Branwen]

SS claimed that mfd mechanic likely confirmed tw as bg but why hypothetically

couldn’t scum!duckling have used mfd mechanic to work around that?

??? literally what ???

the idea is that, if duck weren't a town bodyguard, then MFD mechanic wouldn't have a reason to exist
but it obviously exists
therefore duck is town

Why could it also not confirm Pooky as a bomb? I’m concerned that you’re so confibiased on Pooky!scum that you’re not even considering that as a possibility.

[Raven Branwen]

Then his response to my questioning him about that is he wasn’t ready to end the day yet. But it was freaking close to deadline, how does that make any sense to you?

could you please quote this interaction? i tried to ctrl+f that in his iso and i can't find it

And dsjtr was never going to vote me. Why did you never vote yesterday or check in with the VC?

I never felt the need to end the day

Wdym "check in"

[Raven Branwen]

Why could it also not confirm Pooky as a bomb? I’m concerned that you’re so confibiased on Pooky!scum that you’re not even considering that as a possibility.

/shrug, you're gonna have to ask s_s that. actually @s_s could you answer this please?

however i don't think s_s's alignment here is really relevant to alignments of pooky/duck? like i've been saying pooky's scum on dayplay. you could twist MFD "confirming" one or the other.

besides, ducky's claim is somehwat confirmed by mine, no?

You mean because he claimed neighbour? Can you find that game he referenced? I’m not saying that mfd kill means duckling is scum, I’m saying that it doesn’t confirm duckling as bg > Pooky and a self-proclaimed mech genius should have realized this. Had dsjstr flipped scum, I’d obviously be a lot less suspicious of that because this game seems too scumsided.

[Raven Branwen]

Ya

Pedit idk
That's why my first thought was Doubt at tw, like why kill me in this way over just letting him die ???

The fact that marking exists in the setup is obviously indicative of a

protective

role though

No because it doesn’t stop the marking. Neither tw’s claim nor Pooky’s have any effect on marking scum.

[Raven Branwen]

@mod, does a hypothetical bomb blow up marking scum or just regular scum? Thanks.

here's the game: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=81087

MAFIA GOON

Welcome, [player name], you are a 

Mafia Goon

.
Abilities:
- Factional communication: At any time you may talk with your partners HERE
- Mark for Death: Each night phase, you and your partner must select a single target to "mark". The marked player will be publicly be confirmed as marked at the start of the following day, and will die at the same time as the following day's lynch is achieved.

Win Condition:
- You win if at least half of the living players are mafia.

Town Bomb

• Welcome, [Player Name], you are a
  Town Bomb
  .
  
  
  Abilities:
  
  
• If you are successfully shot at night (Blank Vig targets don't count), the player to shoot you will also die.
  
  
  Win condition:
  
  
• You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and at least one town player is still alive.

here's both role PMs

Thanks.

@mod?

If that Mafia Goon targeted that Town Bomb with a Mark For Death, the Town Bomb's ability would not be triggered, so the Mafia Goon would not be killed.

This is why I’m suspicious that someone as good a mech as SS, would not know this. He seemed to know a lot about Pooky’s initial claimed role in that game was a blank vig and was lying, so how would he not realize this?

[Raven Branwen]

You mean because he claimed neighbour? Can you find that game he referenced?

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=82512

i mean, it's not about him claiming neighbour, it's about him claiming neighbour wth no neighbour... i'd be lowkey surprised if scum!duck decided to claim something like that? like i dunno. i'm a lover with no lover. it makes sense to me that there's 2 roles who usually come in pairs without a pair.

Why are there usually 2? Has this been the case in past YoM games?

[Raven Branwen]

i'm saying in "normal" setups: you don't have "a lover", you have (at least) two. you don't have "a neighbor", you have (at least) two. that's why i'm lowkey thinking my role gives some credibility to duck's. because we're both missing someone.

past YoM game didn't have roles like that, no.

I think he is likely a neighbourless neighour so could be?

[Raven Branwen]

nomnomnom, Mafia Neighbor, lynched Day 1
Luca Blight, Town Macho Neapolitan, killed Night 1
Chemist1422, Vanilla Townie, lynched Day 2
Captain the Furret, Town Bodyguard Neighbor, killed Night 2
Quagsire, Vanilla Townie, lynched Day 3
GeorgeBailey, Vanilla Townie, killed Night 3
Alduskkel, Vanilla Townie, lynched Day 4
Looker, Vanilla Townie, killed in the Endgame

In this setup, was the town bg neighbour in a hood with the mafia neighbour? I’m assuming yes?

[Raven Branwen]

Well Raven calling Pooky town made me more confident so like 85%?

Raven is mega scum though and she should die first imo. You calling bugs town was the main reason I didn't go after her before :X

I think what is actually “mega scummy” is you completely ignoring my case on you and omgussing me. If I’m so offbase here, why aren’t you addressing any of my concerns? You haven’t debunked a single thing I’ve said, yet you’re calling for my death, In what world do you possibly think this is townie?

[Raven Branwen]

And furthermore he’s even now misrepping my posting. I’m not sure on Pooky but I’m liking his recent posts more than duckling and certainly you. Why do you just continue to shade me and ignore every single one of my arguments? This isn’t how town reacts to valid concerns at all.

[Raven Branwen]

Why is mfd kill confirm a protective role? And why were you not ready to end the day when we were almost at deadline?

Why did you just throw shade on me and not respond to any of that? @SS

[Raven Branwen]

oh no, making me feel bad... my one weakness...

were you scumreading her earlier? if so, can you out bullet points why (or quote if you did so already)?

He’s not or he would have focused on why he takes issue with what I actually said, instead he just omgusses me without responding to any of it.

[Raven Branwen]

This is a really good point. I don’t think I want to execute Pooky anymore. So it’s between SS/duckling.

Tinfoil paranoia waning

Totally, it’s clearly super scummy to be thinking Pooky could actually be telling the truth here.

[Raven Branwen]

raven, you agree that pooky/duck aren't the scumteam based on the fact that otherwise this setup makes no sense?

Yes absolutey, with the mfd mechanic, FN can’t possibly be the only TPR.

[Raven Branwen]

This post seems like an oversight for a "mech" genius - there is something for the mark to bypass - the bomb for example.

This is true that the mark isn't completely worthless if there's a bomb, but it's not like the mark is needed to prevent the bomb from doing what it's supposed to do-- they can just shoot someone else. They're unlikely to random mark without any clue what the mark does, so the mark is pretty much only relevant in the very niche scenario where the bomb has claimed but they really want them dead anyway (and are willing to let the bomb be conftown for a whole day first).

Neither claim prevents anything the marking scum does is my point. I’m actually not sure if you’re scum or just being deliberately dense here.

[Raven Branwen]

Neither claim prevents anything the marking scum does is my point.

You have it backwards. I'm not saying the BG exists to stop the mark. I'm saying the mark exists to stop the BG. The fact that the BG doesn't block the mark is what gives the mark relevance within the setup.

You keep missing my point. MFD confirms ONE PR + Skitter but you specifically said, “protective” and no it doesn’t and if dsjstr had flipped scum, that actually would make a lot of sense but I know you’re wrong on me and I have real trouble seeing Dats’ scum here, so if it makes 0 sense for the scumteam to be tw/Pooky and I know I’m town, how can it not be you + one of them? Who’s left?

[Raven Branwen]

raven, then you do understand that you and s_s are practically confirmed scum to each other, right? (the alternative being that i'm scum here, but like... no.)

Yeah, I’ve just got to hope you believe me and I’m happy to do whatever it takes to prove I’m town here.

[Raven Branwen]

Nobody. If you townread Datisi, you have to scumread me.

He was trying so obviously hard to solve the game today, so it just strengthened that read. I don’t see why scum!Dats pushes me like that here, if he isn’t genuinely interested in trying to solve the game.

[Raven Branwen]

But my point is that the mark is a totally unnecessary thing to introduce to the game solely to counter a bomb. Bombs can already be countered by... not shooting them.

Well had you said that, it wouldn’t have pinged me but still based off of PoE, fmpov it has to be you + one of them because this game is broken if it’s tw/Pooky because of that mfd mechanic.

So my dilemma is one of you/Dats has to obviously be scum and I just have real trouble seeing how it’s Dats > you. As for tw/Pooky, I still don’t know. Rn, I like Pooky’s posting better than duckling’s.

I also was a bomb in a game and the way you play it is to try to get scum to kill you and I can see why a bomb role wouldn’t want to tell the truth in a mass claim. It’s a question of which one of them I believe but it’s a lot clearer with you/Dats, unlike Pooky/duckling.

[Raven Branwen]

and its not the same spot because i wouldve flipped bomb and ss/tw would be way more likely to get lynched

I don’t know how dsjtr doesn’t get executed in any case because if it literally weren’t for PoE, I could see both you and duckling as TPRs specifically because of mfd mechanic but because of PoE and since it makes 0 sense for there to be a tw/Pooky scumteam, only one of you can be telling the truth but it’s less clear to me than SS/Dats. Dats is so super townie so I’m worried if we execute one of tw/you and get it wrong, we autolose.

[Raven Branwen]

Why did I kill lilith over skitter who softed PR?

Because Lillith was a confirmed townie who was never going to be executed. But let me ask you this? Why would I kill Lillith > Skitter who was practically deathtunelling me at the time if I knew she softed PR? See, your argument doesn’t make sense if I’m scum here.

[Raven Branwen]

VOTE: micc

I legit wish this was a serious option. Only half kidding. Srysly, how is this game not totally scumsided?

[Raven Branwen]

Why would I kill Lillith > Skitter who was practically deathtunelling me at the time if I knew she softed PR?

Did you know she softed PR?

skitter if your role is not capable of confirming you tomorrow, now might be a good time to say so.

well, it should be overnight
and to at least some people

can't guarantee that scum won't interfere but i'll do my part

It looked like she was softing town neighbour from this but not an FN.

[Raven Branwen]

But dsjstr would not be a liability in lylo?

Another thing, why does scum!me not make an effort to save him after he townlocked me?

[Raven Branwen]

I can tell you for a fact that anytime I have interacted with people like Raven when I am town they turn out to be town. That is my strongest read, unfortunately I became irrational when thinking that I was going to end up ruining the game for town.

I dont get why that post was so bad that you changed your read

Dsjstr any last words?

Pooky is probably my dying scumread

The stuff about raven were my final words

[Raven Branwen]

But dsjstr would not be a liability in lylo?

Another thing, why does scum!me not make an effort to save him after he townlocked me?

Wait, oh you’re not actually disagreeing with this. NM.

[Raven Branwen]

Another thing, why does scum!me not make an effort to save him after he townlocked me?

Ostensibly because it would get your partner Pooky killed instead.

My predecessor tried to get him hammered. Is that not correct? Dsjstr tr me even over mech confitown. He was never ever going to vote me but in an F3 with him, me and Dats, he’d 100% vote Dats, where Pooky would 100% vote me > Dats.

[Raven Branwen]

Another thing, why does scum!me not make an effort to save him after he townlocked me?

Ostensibly because it would get your partner Pooky killed instead.

My predecessor tried to get him hammered. Is that not correct? Dsjstr tr me even over mech confitown. He was never ever going to vote me but in an F3 with him, me and Dats, he’d 100% vote Dats, where Pooky would 100% vote me > Dats.

In fact, dsjstr is the ONLY player in this entire game who would vote Dats > me in an F3, so not even trying to make an effort to save him is pretty much scum suicide.

[Raven Branwen]

i actually have you as town over dats at this point

But you didn’t on D2 but dsjstr did.

[Raven Branwen]

Another thing, why does scum!me not make an effort to save him after he townlocked me?

Ostensibly because it would get your partner Pooky killed instead.

My predecessor tried to get him hammered. Is that not correct? Dsjstr tr me even over mech confitown. He was never ever going to vote me but in an F3 with him, me and Dats, he’d 100% vote Dats, where Pooky would 100% vote me > Dats.

"tried". i thought that was unlikely to make bugs/pooky aligned, but it's not impossible.

also, dsjstr was never making it to f3 there, so...

But if I’m scum here, I’m gamethrowing when you and Skitter wanted to execute Pooky. However your point actually proves my argument because scum!me tries to save dsjstr and brings him to ELO for an easy misexecution.

[Raven Branwen]

and you didnt just no try to save him - you actively pushed for him to get lynched over me.

Yes because I couldn’t see how town!dsjtr townlocks me but doesn’t change his read on Dats, when he gave no other reason for sr him and I still can’t believe he flipped town.

[Raven Branwen]

But if I’m scum here, I’m gamethrowing when you and Skitter wanted to execute Pooky. However your point actually proves my argument because scum!me tries to save dsjstr and brings him to ELO for an easy misexecution.

????

how is scum!you gamethrowing by pushing town!dsjstr when me and skitter wanted to execute pooky????

Because he was never voting me. Do you disagree that it would 100% be in scum me’s interest not to at least try to save him?

[Raven Branwen]

But if I’m scum here, I’m gamethrowing when you and Skitter wanted to execute Pooky. However your point actually proves my argument because scum!me tries to save dsjstr and brings him to ELO for an easy misexecution.

????

how is scum!you gamethrowing by pushing town!dsjstr when me and skitter wanted to execute pooky????

Because he was never voting me. Do you disagree that it would 100% be in scum me’s interest not to at least try to save him?

if your partner is next in the execution line, yes?

I honestly don’t understand how you think I’m buddies with Pooky. Did bugs not try to get Pooky hammered?

[Raven Branwen]

I honestly don’t understand how you think I’m buddies with Pooky. Did bugs not try to get Pooky hammered?

it's an option i'm considering due to the fact that my previous team fell apart?

and no? bugs voted pooky to E-1. recently before that pooky was already at E-1 but koba (iirc) had unvoted him recently.

Isn’t that kind of an insane thing to do if bugs and Pooky are buddies though? How would bugs know that Koba would unvote him unless I’ve completely misread this?

[Raven Branwen]

I honestly don’t understand how you think I’m buddies with Pooky. Did bugs not try to get Pooky hammered?

it's an option i'm considering due to the fact that my previous team fell apart?

and no? bugs voted pooky to E-1. recently before that pooky was already at E-1 but koba (iirc) had unvoted him recently.

bugs didnt know what the VC was when he voted me, he could've hammered me - do you really think he does this if he's my scumbuddy?

Okay, thanks for clarifying this. That’s what I thought. Dats how are you forgetting this?

[Raven Branwen]

the mark mechanic is.... really interesting, and i'm actually lowkey indifferent as to whether there's a meaningful balancing diff between {bg, bomb, fn, names townies} vs. {bg, fn, names townies}.

I'm really struggling with whether FN/Bomb/BG makes more or less sense than FN/Bomb since the scum have a MFD role - I don't see how you are indifferent about this balance question.

I’m struggling with this too, before we knew about the mfd thing it was obvious but both dsjstr townflip + mfd mechanic totally fucked up my solve. This is why if I’m convinced of nothing else, this game is definitely scumsided.

[Raven Branwen]

c'mon skitter I shouldn't have to towncase myself. the raven/pooky scumcase practically writes itself.

SS is putting 0 thought into parsing me and is not even questioning his solve like you know, everybody fucking eose is. I liked koba too initially but I was convinced that Ank was locktown in a game where she flipped scum and town!SS would be expressing some doubt here. He KNOWS who the team is without a single scumflip, when it has been clearly pointed out to anyone who claims to be an expert at logical analysis that it makes no sense fo bugs to almost hammer his buddy on D fucking one!

[Raven Branwen]

c'mon skitter I shouldn't have to towncase myself. the raven/pooky scumcase practically writes itself.

SS is putting 0 thought into parsing me and is not even questioning his solve like you know, everybody fucking eose is. I liked koba too initially but I was convinced that Ank was locktown in a game where she flipped scum and town!SS would be expressing some doubt here. He KNOWS who the team is without a single scumflip, when it has been clearly pointed out to anyone who claims to be an expert at logical analysis that it makes no sense fo bugs to almost hammer his buddy on D fucking one!

Yeah, I think SS claiming to be this certain of who the scumteam is definitely scum indicative for him. In every single damn game I’ve played with town!him. he’s ALWAYS had some doubt. I don’t recall a single SS towngame where he had this much certainty on who any scum was - let alone the entire team sans flip. If this is town!SS here, I should seriously consider quitting playing mafia.

[Raven Branwen]

I would love to see someone do an SS metadive because I’m extremely confident I’m not wrong about this. SS having 0 doubt about who the scumteam is is not town indicative for him and how he doesn’t think to re-evaluate after Skitter confirms that it doesn’t make any sense for bugs to accidentally hammer his partner and this solve is coming from the mech expert.

[Raven Branwen]

Like I said, the scumcase writes itself.

Skitter if you can't see how bad faith Raven is posting in on the previous page, I don't know what to tell you.

MY bad faith? You’ve got to be fucking kidding me! What good faith are you showing? Are you even trying to solve me? No. Are you re-evaluating that you’re Pooky/me scumteam makes 0 sense? Also no. What towngame do you refuse to re-evaluate anything.

All you keep doing is shading me while ignoring all evidence proving your solve is bullshit.

[Raven Branwen]

Like I said, the scumcase writes itself.

Skitter if you can't see how bad faith Raven is posting in on the previous page, I don't know what to tell you.

If you seriously think this makes even an iota of sense, you’re either scum ot on drugs, so which is it?

[Raven Branwen]

oh no, one person voted for another, they can never be scumbuddies and it makes 0 sense. whatever will we do?

Alrighty then, good you’ve got this entire game wrapped up there Sherlock.

[Raven Branwen]

also, this is good faith. I'm not trying to manipulate skitter or sell her on anything, because I don't have to. I am just providing my perspective, and I'm willing to engage her if she doesn't understand why I feel the way I do.

You are confusing good faith with high effort. Effort is not indicative of alignment.

So now you’re telling me what I’m thinking? How are you possibly acting in good faith here? You are making 0 effort to try and parse me but you nevertheless have the audacity to accuse me of doing that to you?

[Raven Branwen]

If you seriously think this makes even an iota of sense, you’re either scum ot on drugs, so which is it?

I'm not really sure what you're expecting to accomplish by doing this. But I would expect it to harm your cause and thus help mine, so by all means, keep it up.

I’m telling you your solve makes no sense and that town!you would at least be questioning that. It’s your complete unwillingness to even consider that you might possibly be wrong here, which is why I think I’m not wrong. It’s not like you’ve actually examined my arguments, critically examined them and rejected them. You haven’t even considered the possibility that you could be wrong. Everyone else is doing that except for you, so tell me again how you think I’m acting in “bad faith” here?

[Raven Branwen]

If you seriously think this makes even an iota of sense, you’re either scum ot on drugs, so which is it?

I'm not really sure what you're expecting to accomplish by doing this. But I would expect it to harm your cause and thus help mine, so by all means, keep it up.

I’m saying that your arguments don’t make logical sense, I think that’s obvious and from everything I know about playing with town!you. you critically evaluate everything but here you’re just content to push a solve with holes as big as craters and not even rethink it. What towngames have you ever done this? And you know we’re buddies without either of us flipping?

And you haven’t given a shred of evidence to back anything up. Your entire argument is I’m scum arguing in bad faith after you won’t even consider the possibility that your solve could be wrong, so how are you getting me acting in “bad faith” from that?

[Raven Branwen]

how do you know that I'm not considering the possibility that I might be wrong?

c'mon skitter I shouldn't have to towncase myself.

the raven/pooky scumcase practically writes itself.

This doesn’t look like it to me.

[Raven Branwen]

also, how does the you/Pooky team not make sense? you haven't really shown that in any satisfactory way.

If you weren’t deathtunnelling me here, do you honestly think scum!me would defend a buddy like this? Because that would be suicide. Can you at least agree with that much?

[Raven Branwen]

also, how does the you/Pooky team not make sense? you haven't really shown that in any satisfactory way.

If you weren’t deathtunnelling me here, do you honestly think scum!me would defend a buddy like this? Because that would be suicide. Can you at least agree with that much?

Everyone is gunning for Pooky, yes? I’m not a freaking idiot, so if I know my buddy’s going down is inevitable, I bus them here, I don’t double down.

[Raven Branwen]

This doesn’t look like it to me.

I mean nowhere did I claim I had perfect confidence in the scumcase. I have a fair amount of confidence in it, certainly way more than I have in any other team. It's lylo, there isn't room for error, why would you not be expecting me to pick the highest probability team and throw my weight behind it?

Or better yet, if you want to do meta, go find a time where I was town in lylo and didn't pick what I thought was the most likely team and commit to it.

I am not aware of this, I can only go by the games I’ve played with you and I’ve never seen you be this certain based on my experience with you.

[Raven Branwen]

If you weren’t deathtunnelling me here, do you honestly think scum!me would defend a buddy like this? Because that would be suicide. Can you at least agree with that much?

It's definitely not suicide to defend your buddy in lylo. Usually scumteams have a plan for which exact lylo they will win in, so if your plan is to win right here, then you are correct to launch all your firepower at me.

Because you’re deathtunnelling me and you’ve been doing that since D2. You said if dsjstr flips scum, it has to be either me or Pooky despite it making 0 sense he was my buddy. Where was I acting in bad faith on your slot before you did that? In fact, the opposite was true.

[Raven Branwen]

You are asserting that the you/Pooky team has holes in it without any evidence.

Then when I ask for evidence, you argue that different things are impossible to come from a team of the two of you... again, without any evidence. Have you never seen scum bus each other on day 1? Have you never seen scum defend each other in lylo? That seems hard to believe.

Of course I have but I’m arguing context, which you keep ignoring. If Pooky’s my buddy and it’s inevitable he’s going down, I do everything possible to avoid following suit. This is why your argument doesn’t make sense. And once you realize that than you have to ask yourself why scum!me doesn’t try to save the only slot that townlocked me on D2.

[Raven Branwen]

I’m saying that your arguments don’t make logical sense

I've barely made any arguments! I've mostly just tried to tear down yours and Pooky's.

That's kind of my whole angle here; that I shouldn't have to explain why you and Pooky are scum, because it should be self-evident.

How is it “self-evident”? Bugs almost accidentally freaking hammered Pooky but sure completely ignore how that makes absolutely no sense if we’re buddies. Town!you would see why is is ridiculous but you’re not seeing why this doesn’t add up. That’s why I voted dsjtr over Pooky because it made no sense to me how he locktowns me but doesn’t change his read on Dats.

[Raven Branwen]

dsj flips scum -> we can probably just kill you/raven and be happy

dsj flips town -> something is rotten in the state of denmark. is it datisi? is it tw? who knows, really, we get to have a real fun and by fun I mean not fun lylo to figure that one out.

[Raven Branwen]

it’s inevitable he’s going down

well it's clearly not, because he doesn't seem to be going anywhere

You, Dats, tw want to kill him and it looks as if Skitter may also be leaning that way too or are you saying I’m wrong on this?

[Raven Branwen]

I don't know how you can possibly read that and think it's a deathtunnel. I literally listed five of the six living players as possible scum.

My point being you cavalierly wanted to possibly kill me even before dsjstr flip, so how do you honestly find fault with my sr you for that?

[Raven Branwen]

You are not reconsidering that you might be wrong on me or of yoi are it’s going above my head, so my argument to you is how is it “bad faith” for me to think your scum wanting to misexececute me, especially how you’ve locked down or semmed to - a me/Pooky scumteam before either one of us has flipped. How fmpov do you possibly view that as me acting in “bad faith”?

[Raven Branwen]

like your play this game has been so lazy and sloppy that you have managed to melt away any goodwill/town-iness that Koba built up and your default response seems to be "WELL LOOK AT HOW TOWNY KOBA WAS"

GUESS WHAT KOBA ISNT FUCKING PLAYING THIS GAME ANYMORE YOU ARE

I don't understand what this is supposed to prove? Koba and I share the same role PM. Koba's ISO is and always has been towny, and it will always continue to be.

This is just a fancy way for you to say that I've been scummy without any evidence.

I liked koba too initially but I was convinced that Ank was locktown in a game where she flipped scum

[Raven Branwen]

because he has absolute confidence in his solve and he doesn't even care about the possibility he could be wrong

Ding ding ding

[Raven Branwen]

if someone plays really townie for half a day that doesn't mean it lasts for the rest of the game - you have to keep playing townie to look townie

no???

the definition of towny is above average likelihood to be town. if someone plays above average likelihood to be town for a bit, and then plays average likelihood to be town... they are still above average likelihood to be town, albeit less so.

If someone plays EXTREMELY above average likelihood to be town, even for a very short duration, they will still be extremely above average likelihood to be town for the whole game, unless they do something extremely below average likelihood to be town. I can demonstrate the math here, if you actually care.

In that game where Ank was scum, she fit the very textbook definition of bleeding obvtown and when her hydra partner took over and did some slimy shit, I said they can’t possibly be scum because there’s no freaking world where Ank could ever possibly be scum and when that player replaced out and their replacement was acting even scummier, I dug in my heals and maintained my locktown read on that slot. I’m never letting that fucking happen to me ever again.

[Raven Branwen]

Now instead of doing the "figure something out" part- you've gone back to "we need to lynch Pooky/Raven"

Which means your response was full of shit to begin with

Datisi changed his mind on Raven. That is one of the main things that caused my view of the game to come into focus.

If he hadn't done that, I'd probably be pushing him, but I would be torn between him and ducky.

Thanks for proving Pooky’s point. You weren’t reconsidering ME!

[Raven Branwen]

You both are speaking essentially in unison today.

You are pulling whatever you can out of my ISO and assigning it scum motivation without actually analyzing it, and you're shooting down whatever I say and trying to gaslight me by suggesting that my arguments are insane. You're ignoring the evidence I have given of decision making and insisting that you actually know what I did or didn't think about. You both have expressed a token suspicion on the other but ultimately decided that I was the right one to kill.

This is not at all a cooperative mindset. This is adversarial. This method of twisting the facts could be confirmation bias-- but confirmation bias rarely manifests itself in such a sudden (neither of you were remotely tunneled on me before today) or coordinated (you both are doing this in exactly the same way at exactly the same time) manner.

Meanwhile I have basically sat here and taken it, trying to deflect and break down your arguments while engaging the people I trust and trying to get on the same page as them (and get them on the same page as each other). I haven't really presented any arguments of my own, because I don't necessarily think that what I can produce is more meaningful than what they can produce, and whatever case they make will certainly be more meaningful to them.

The bolded is why your solve is bullshit. In a world where you’re actually town here (doubt it), you figure that out. You are the one gaslighting here. You’re not right and you clearly dgaf and if you’re actually town, I’d really like to know why.

[Raven Branwen]

SS claim: Raven is pretty decent as scum.

Also SS claim: Scum!Raven is clearly a moron who is trying to set herself up to gamethrow. Which one is it SS? Am I decent at scum or am I a suicidal gamethrowing moron?

You can’t have it both ways.

[Raven Branwen]

SS claim: Raven is pretty decent as scum.

Also SS claim: Scum!Raven is clearly a moron who is trying to set herself up to gamethrow. Which one is it SS? Am I decent at scum or am I a suicidal gamethrowing moron?

You can’t have it both ways.

And before you say you never actually said that, you’re very clearly implying it, even if you don’t think that’s exactly what you’re doing.

FACT: You, Dats, tw all want to kill Pooky who is almost certain to be the executee. If I’m his freaking buddy, then I’m setting myself up to follow immediately after. Why would scum!me do that?

Answer to onyone who is actually town/capable of rational thought: I obviously wouldn’t, because I’m literally not a freaking moron ffs!

[Raven Branwen]

I honestly can’t tell what is making me angrier, being wrongly scumread or being considered a fucking imbecile.

[Raven Branwen]

I voted the slot guaranteed to never vote me over the slot that didn’t why? Because I wasn’t sold on Pooky scum and I’m still not. I’m legit concerned that if he flips town here we lose.

But what’s really insane about both SS/Dats pushes is that neither but especially SS is clearly ignoring that Pooky is very likely to be today’s executeee because nobody is fucking listening to me because contrary to all rational evidence, we are clearly not aligned and I think whomever’s scum here is setting up that narrative deliberately to silence my solve and possibly cost us the game. Whomever is town/ thinking clearly: Pushing a me/Pooky scumteam effectively mutes anything valid I have to say here. So when I give sound logical reasons why I think this could possibly cost us the game, I don’t get listened to. Now if town/anyone who doesn’t have their head up their ass can clearly see that a Pooky/me scumteam makes 0 sense, then my solve would actually get listened too and taken seriously. It really sucks we might possibly lose this game either because of scum pushing a bad faith agenda or town not seeing how for like a gazillion reasons this makes absolutely no sense. @Sorry Aldus, Lillith, dsjstr I tried but this is literally like MBoS again. I’m just really sad now we’re going to probably lose - either because Pooky is actually town or if he isn’t, scum has set me up as his buddy. I think the fact that the only players in this game not sold on this narrative are literally only me, Pooky. Skitter speaks volumes and should strike legit paranoia in whomever is town here.

[Raven Branwen]

Why @Dats and sorry but I don’t want to quote your entire post. I legit don’t understand why Sktter is the only one who doesn’t see a Pooky/me scumteam.

Like how do I even begin to get through to you that you’re wrong on that? Because my best reason for totally quashing that is bugs almost hammering Pooky and I have hardly any experience playing with him. I have to think that makes no logical sense if Pooky/me are the scumteam and I don’t understand how you aren’t seeing it?

[Raven Branwen]

what is the "why" for? (also hint, if you highlight a part of the post and hit quote, it'll quote just that part of the post)

ok, but i don't find that reason convincing.

What are the “Yikes”?

And seriously how can you not? Is in your experience bugs extremely careless player? Has scum!bugs ever almost hammered his buddy in any game ever? Don’t you think it far more likely that bugs was trying to get Pooky executed? I do because Occams razor, that’s what clearly makes the most sense.

And once you realize that, then ask yourself why does scum!me vote to execute dsjstr who was locktowning me over Pooky? What does scum!me have to gain by doing that? And yes, I’m asking this in the hopes that you can see how a Pooky/me scumteam isn’t adding up, because it isn’t and SS insisting it is doesn’t make it so.

[Raven Branwen]

you think s_s is scum, correct? who's the partner?

I wish I knew. I’m sorry I haven’t figured that out yet but I honestly don’t believe his progression on my slot has been in good faith.

[Raven Branwen]

4519-4521 are just yikes

bugs is a careless player, yeah. and sure, i don't think scum!bugs has ever accidentally hammered their scumpartner before, but (1) something not happening before isn't a convincing argument why it couldn't happen and (2) it's ignoring the possibility of scum!bugs reading ahead or being coached.

i dunno, i'd have to check the order but depending on how deep you were on scum!dsjstr maybe you wouldn't have been able to make a convincing walkback. but also that argument doesn't do much for me considering i'm not convinced you/pooky cannot be partners.

That actually isn’t the case. At one point I was seriously considering voting Pooky but dsjstr’s posts were so scummy, I thought it stupid to ignore that.

[Raven Branwen]

I honestly can’t tell what is making me angrier, being wrongly scumread or being considered a fucking imbecile.

4519-4521 are just yikes

bugs is a careless player, yeah. and sure, i don't think scum!bugs has ever accidentally hammered their scumpartner before, but (1) something not happening before isn't a convincing argument why it couldn't happen and (2) it's ignoring the possibility of scum!bugs reading ahead or being coached.

i dunno, i'd have to check the order but depending on how deep you were on scum!dsjstr maybe you wouldn't have been able to make a convincing walkback. but also that argument doesn't do much for me considering i'm not convinced you/pooky cannot be partners.

That actually isn’t the case. At one point I was seriously considering voting Pooky but dsjstr’s posts were so scummy, I thought it stupid to ignore that.

I asked you WHY those posts are “YIKES” to you? Are you going to answer that?

[Raven Branwen]

I’m trying to explain that I just wouldn’t treat a buddy like Pooky and you can either believe that or not.

[Raven Branwen]

ah sorry. they're just very unpleasant to read.

Well it’s no fun to be deathtunnelled especially when I know it’s dead wrong. If you were continually wrongly accused of not only being scum but scum with a player who fypov made absolutely no sense, how would you be feeling about that? Especially when it becomes super obvious that due to this woefully incorrect read, no one will listen to a damn thing you have to say regarding your thoughts on X player’s alignment and you are just forced to sit back and have your solve completely trampled upon because being wrongly pushed as being aligned with the likely executee means my voice and solve won’t be taken seriously. Tell me how you wouldn’t be extremely frustrated in this scenario?

I care about this game and I want my voice heard but as long as enough people don’t wake up and realize this, no one is going to fucking listen to me and I’ll be damned if I’m just going to do nothing and possibly hand the game to scum. Could I possibly be wrong on Pooky? Sure. I could possibly be wrong on every single player in the game other than Skitter but I just feel the complete lack of resistance to a Pooky wagon is concerning and it ought to be to you as well. And when Skitter made a list of who she thought could possibly be aligned with him, she never ever said a Pooky/me scumteam was likely, what she did say was that a Pooky/SS team was MORE unlikely.

[Raven Branwen]

ah sorry. they're just very unpleasant to read.

Well it’s no fun to be deathtunnelled especially when I know it’s dead wrong. If you were continually wrongly accused of not only being scum but scum with a player who fypov made absolutely no sense, how would you be feeling about that? Especially when it becomes super obvious that due to this woefully incorrect read, no one will listen to a damn thing you have to say regarding your thoughts on X player’s alignment and you are just forced to sit back and have your solve completely trampled upon because being wrongly pushed as being aligned with the likely executee means my voice and solve won’t be taken seriously. Tell me how you wouldn’t be extremely frustrated in this scenario?

I care about this game and I want my voice heard but as long as enough people don’t wake up and realize this, no one is going to fucking listen to me and I’ll be damned if I’m just going to do nothing and possibly hand the game to scum. Could I possibly be wrong on Pooky? Sure. I could possibly be wrong on every single player in the game other than Skitter but I just feel the complete lack of resistance to a Pooky wagon is concerning and it ought to be to you as well. And when Skitter made a list of who she thought could possibly be aligned with him, she never ever said a Pooky/me scumteam was likely, what she did say was that a Pooky/SS team was MORE unlikely.

Just to be clear, yes I do sr SS over Pooky and I’ve already explained why.

[Raven Branwen]

a complete lack of resistance to a pooky wagon... are we reading the same game? if there was a lack of resistance he would've been dead on day one. also, it's lylo. there's 2 scum alive in 6 players. like is this the point where we talk about lack of resistances to wagons?

and yeah, that's how crossing out scumteams works? you cross off those that are for this or that reason unlikely?

What I’m saying is how sure are you Pooky’s scum because I see a lot of reasons that point against him being scum and it’s extremely difficult to believe SS’ push on me as his buddy - pre-flip is in good faith. I suppose it’s possthat SS could be deathtunnelled wrong town here but I’m having a great deal of trouble seeing his continuous shade on me without actually explaining anything as being townie. He isn’t even considering the possibility that he could be wrong yet he continues to deny that.

What I’m saying is that Skitter never ever said it was likely either. Only SS and you and maybe duckling are saying that.

[Raven Branwen]

/shrug, i'm seeing reasons to point at him being scum. i've said so yesterday. y'all actually made me make an actual wallpost god i hate wallposts

what are your reasons for pooky being town? that """case""" on s_s? like even if you're sure of s_s being scum, how does that point to town!pooky in any way... like you keep saing yourself, no way scumpartners would defend each other in lylo (which i disagree with but for the sake of argument), how does that case point to town!pooky?

i mean, sure, she didn't outright say "i think pooky/raven is likely" but also you were the only uncrossed partner for pooky and she said she's leaning on voting pooky so idk, 2 + 2 = ?

though i don't wanna be putting words in her mouth, if that's not the conclusion i'm supposed to draw, feel free to correct me

I said that I think he sounded very different here than in coalition. Yes I know you and Skitter disagree with that. He also seems to be incredibly frustrated with the push on him and his frustration sounds townie to me. Maybe because that’s how I’m feeling because of both SS’ deathtunnel on me plus it seems that Skitter is the only one who isn’t sold on a Pooky/me team. Yes I know she listed me as the only possibility for scum!Pooky but she also clearly said that she didn’t have a theory on who is the other scum, so it’s not exactly the same thing. Fmpov, if I am the only possibility for Pooky!scum and I know we’re not buddies, why wouldn’t it make sense that I’m not convinced he’s scum?

[Raven Branwen]

I said that I think he sounded very different here than in coalition. Yes I know you and Skitter disagree with that. He also seems to be incredibly frustrated with the push on him and his frustration sounds townie to me. [...] Fmpov, if I am the only possibility for Pooky!scum and I know we’re not buddies, why wouldn’t it make sense that I’m not convinced he’s scum?

agree to disagree i guess? also i seem to think you thought i brought up valid points in my wallpost yesterday, but correct me if i'm wrong, i didn't have enough strength to go check...

are you the only possibility for a partner for scum!pooky? even from your pov? skitter and duck obviously aren't his partners, i'd argue i pretty plainly aren't either, and from town!you pov you're not, but what is stopping s_s from being his partner again?

I guess that’s Skitter’s opinion. Idk I know if Pooky’s scum, he obviously can’t be scum with duckling for mech reasons and no way are you/Pooky ever doing scum theatre. I initially did think that was possible but I just really don’t think it’s scum distancing. Of course in the event he were to flip scum, I’d obviously have to recess that but I’m just paranoid that he could be the town-losing misexecutiion and after all of the time and effort I’ve put into this game, I’d rather not have us lose. But yeah the main reason is I definitely disagree with both you and Skitter on coalition and in my experience when I don’t trust my gut, bad things happen. Sorry, I can’t explain it better.

[Raven Branwen]

s_s, can you talk about this post a bit more? like i don't know whta i'm asking here myself, but this just seems like a weird thing to say?

If you had stuck to your Raven townread, I would have trusted that you were right, even though I didn't like it.

And by PoE that would peg the team at

you

/Pooky,

you

/tw, or

you

/Raven.

Dafuq? So anyone but Skitter who correctly trs me is scum? You’re basically saying that if Dats trs me she’s scum?

[Raven Branwen]

4573 doesn't say you are scum - it says you are trying to stop her meltdown with some patronizing bad faith bullshit

Is this true Dats? Were you just playing me earlier? :/

[Raven Branwen]

4573 doesn't say you are scum - it says you are trying to stop her meltdown with some patronizing bad faith bullshit

Is this true Dats? Were you just playing me earlier? :/

I need to know this because it’s totally not cool if this is true.

[Raven Branwen]

What Pooky posted really triggered me, sorry. I can’t think straight rn.

[Raven Branwen]

What Pooky posted really triggered me, sorry. I can’t think straight rn.

I don’t know if I even want to be in this game if people have that little respect for me if it’s true. Just tell,me what he said isn’t true Dats and I promise to answer your questions but I can’t unless this is clarified.

[Raven Branwen]

you don't see why being an ass to her when she's pouring her soul into the game is insulting and patronizing? I'm guessing because it's cuz you've never cared about a game half as much as she does about this one right now.

This is triggering rl shit for me now. I literally can’t deal with that. Wrongly sr me/push/misexecute me whatever but I draw the limit at being mistreated and ridiculed if that is actually even happening and I’m so fucking confused rn I can’t even think straight. This isn’t game related, I’m legit sobbing rn.

[Raven Branwen]

@Pooky do you honestly believe Dats is/would do that to me, because if not you shouldn’t say those things, they just hurt too much,

[Raven Branwen]

@Pooky do you honestly believe Dats is/would do that to me, because if not you shouldn’t say those things, they just hurt too much,

Spoiler:

For realz I am an emotional abuse survivor and another player on here - no they weren’t even sr me, just implying I was - take your pick: stupid, crazy and something else I thankfully can’t remember now and it triggered a rl meltdown for weeks afterwards, so I just can’t deal with anything at all like that, so if I’m reassured that nothing like that is even possibly happening here, I will eventually calm down and go back to playing like I did before that happened.

[Raven Branwen]

@Pooky do you honestly believe Dats is/would do that to me, because if not you shouldn’t say those things, they just hurt too much,

Spoiler:

For realz I am an emotional abuse survivor and another player on here - no they weren’t even sr me, just implying I was - take your pick: stupid, crazy and something else I thankfully can’t remember now and it triggered a rl meltdown for weeks afterwards, so I just can’t deal with anything at all like that, so if I’m reassured that nothing like that is even possibly happening here, I will eventually calm down and go back to playing like I did before that happened.

Eventhough I’m town here, my meltdown should be strictly viewed as NAI.

[Raven Branwen]

@Pooky do you honestly believe Dats is/would do that to me, because if not you shouldn’t say those things, they just hurt too much,

Spoiler:

For realz I am an emotional abuse survivor and another player on here - no they weren’t even sr me, just implying I was - take your pick: stupid, crazy and something else I thankfully can’t remember now and it triggered a rl meltdown for weeks afterwards, so I just can’t deal with anything at all like that, so if I’m reassured that nothing like that is even possibly happening here, I will eventually calm down and go back to playing like I did before that happened.

Eventhough I’m town here, my meltdown should be strictly viewed as NAI.

So Pooky if you call me town for this, I will scream.

[Raven Branwen]

i honestly feel like dats/tw/ss have been doing that to me the entire day so far and I just got so mad when I saw him doing that shit to you too

Do you think they’re wrongly sr me or something other than that, because there’s a huge difference between those things. That other person who shall remain nameless, actually DID emotionally abuse me and treat me like shit in a game, so @SS, @Dats if this isn’t true, please forgive my meltdown. I. don’t actually think that’s what’s happening but my mind is completely fucked up rn and can’t think straight. Fuck!

[Raven Branwen]

I was 100% sure you were town after reading 4514-4521 tho you were like pretty close to 95% town to begin with before that

I’m just saying my meltdown is 100% nai and should not be viewed as anything else. As long as everyone is clear on that, good. My emotions are always real. I would never fake a meltdown to help me in a game ever.

[Raven Branwen]

I'm not saying they wrongly SR you

I'm saying they are trying to get you to calm down and accept Pooky getting lynched.

You were suggesting they were playing me? How is any of that supposed to calm me down? I even have a migraine over it.

[Raven Branwen]

well i had you at 100% town before the meltdown but that probly doesnt do much since im going to die

Are you actually saying you were trying to get me to have a meltdown? I sense another one coming on now. This is no fucking joke. Please don’t manipulate my emotions for your sake, I honestly can’t deal.

[Raven Branwen]

like i really feel I don't deserve you this game, you've been so good to me and i've been so shit and useless and it just breaks my heart seeing that asshole dats do the same shit routine to you too

YOU NEED To STOP THIS NOW! Not cool bruh!

[Raven Branwen]

like i really feel I don't deserve you this game, you've been so good to me and i've been so shit and useless and it just breaks my heart seeing that asshole dats do the same shit routine to you too

YOU NEED To STOP THIS NOW! Not cool bruh!

You are gaslighting Dats and in a mean way. I refuse to be any kind of party to this. Dats is a great person, so is SS and I’m actually friends with tw, so don’t you dare talk about my friends that way. I won’t stand for it!

[Raven Branwen]

i am not about to be gaslighted into thinking i'm a horrible person because i asked a game-relevant question. i am not about to be gaslighted into thinking i'm a horrible person because i asked a game-relevant question. i am not about to be gaslighted into thinking i'm a horrible person because i asked a game-relevant question. i am not about to be gaslighted into thinking i'm a horrible person because i asked a game-relevant question. i am not about to be gaslighted into thinking i'm a horrible person because i asked a game-relevant question. i am not about to be gaslighted into thinking i'm a horrible person because i asked a game-relevant question. i am not about to be gaslighted into thinking i'm a horrible person because i asked a game-relevant question. i am not about to be gaslighted into thinking i'm a horrible person because i asked a game-relevant question. i am not about to be gaslighted into thinking i'm a horrible person because i asked a game-relevant question. i am not about to be gaslighted into thinking i'm a horrible person because i asked a game-relevant question.

nevermind, i'm crying now. i'll be back later.

*(((HUGS Dats)))*

[Raven Branwen]

I’m emotionally spent due that whole shitfest earlier and still not over it. It’s never okay to attack a person’s character and I didn’t want to be in anyway a part of that. I’m still really paranoid that this vote is a mistake and we will lose but no one has been listening to a single thing I’ve said since the day started, except maybe Skitter. So I tried my best, that’s all anyone can really do. I’m just sorry it wasn’t good enough. :/

[Raven Branwen]

ty tw. i'll look at that a little more closely tom morning but at a glance that makes me feel a bit better about you/pooky

like i know its unfair cuz i have information you dont have but can you think of anything i can do at this point to get you to understand im innocent here?

tbh, i don't think so super much rn. but i'll think about it overnight to see if there's anything else that i can think of, and i'll let u know if so. otherwise i'll vote u in the morning

raven, i'm sorry u feel that way

raven if there's anything else u wanna say i'm listening but i'm gonna be p forthright that i'm at a pooky/you solve rn

I’m still really really upset rn over what went down earlier. I don’t know what more I can say here that I already didn’t. I voted dsjtr because I was the most confident on him flipping scum. Sorry @dsjstr. :/. As I have stated repeatedly, I’m not buddies with Pooky or anyone else. I explained why ad nauseum, so I’m not at all confident Pooky flips scum here but if I’m wrong, we will lose with my flip. Yes, I still thinks it’s SS. Dats not hammering probably points to duckling as his buddy. If I’m wrong about Pooky, it has to be SS because mech reasons. Mfd mechanic points to there having to be more than just an FN.

So, if Pooky flips town: SS/tw
If he flips scum: SS > Dats

I find it difficult to believe that they could be buddies with doing scum theatre for practically the entire game.

[Raven Branwen]

Dats is a really good guy

I'm the shitty asshole here

I’m one of the last people who ought to be throwing stones but I’ve been trying to do a lot better and am very proud of myself for succeeding.

[Raven Branwen]

I'm really sorry for getting you upset. I didn't mean it as an attack on Datisi's character. =[

Spoiler:

I have a history of being gaslighted, so the mere suggestion it might possibly be happening just triggered a full meltdown.

[Raven Branwen]

Dats is a really good guy

I'm the shitty asshole here

I’m one of the last people who ought to be throwing stones but I’ve been trying to do a lot better and am very proud of myself for succeeding.

i think you probably played the best game out of everyone here -if you're scum then it's just A+ win for you no matter what goes down.

If you're town, you're the only one who correctly deduced that I'm town.

Thanks for everything.

If you aren’t, I will probably be the game-losing elim, so thanks but in light of that either way we lose, it’s bittersweet. I hate that I put so much effort into this game. Meh.

[Raven Branwen]

This is a really good point. I don’t think I want to execute Pooky anymore. So it’s between SS/duckling.

Tinfoil paranoia waning

This is the post that I still don’t understand why it got so ridiculously misunderstood. This is the point in which my paranoia on you possibly flipping town, made me change my read on you. I still don’t understand how that got so horribly mischaracterized.

[Raven Branwen]

This is a really good point. I don’t think I want to execute Pooky anymore. So it’s between SS/duckling.

Tinfoil paranoia waning

This is the post that I still don’t understand why it got so ridiculously misunderstood. This is the point in which my paranoia on you possibly flipping town, made me change my read on you. I still don’t understand how that got so horribly mischaracterized.

This was the reaction that I think pinged me the hardest. I would think that town!SS would realize that my read change on you was in good faith because clearly I had valid reasons for it.

[Raven Branwen]

So, if Pooky flips town: SS/tw
If he flips scum: SS > Dats

right
so, if pooky flips town we just lose

i'm not sure why you're settling on scum!ss over scum!pooky

i also find you pushing dsjstr over pooky during the bomb-vig to be partner-indicative

Because I think Pooky is far more likely to flip town than SS. Re-read my ISO, I’ve been suspicious of him since D2.

I really don’t see why? I thought dsjtr was obvscum because many of his arguments really didn’t make sense to me. And it’s always smart to vote your strongest sr att which was obviously dsjtr. I can’t remember what post it was but I was actually bomb in a game, so that might have influenced it somewhat.

[Raven Branwen]

yes I can see bugs lol-hammering on D1 but they don't do that to their own teammate do they? sure they ignore what you told them in the scum PT but do they ignore your existence and just lol-hammer you in the first hours of D1? It's a pretty big stretch from scum using their meta to try to get away with a lol-hammer and scum lol-hammering their own partner.

we agreed in the scum pt that i would make aparticular fake-claim to take advantage of a particular mechanic in thread.
they lolhamemred and then claimed what i was going to fake-claim about 24 hours through day1

*mind blown*

[Raven Branwen]

i mean scum don't always play optimally

yes I know scum do not always play optimally - but the EV difference between bussing and pushing someone else when your scumpartner gets called out by the moderator for fake-claiming is just so so so big that I think almost any scum player who is not a complete noob would definitely pick the bus route.

idk. if u read thru that section she inexplicably wanted to not vote you, which was a p strange reaction from a townie

i mean scum don't always play optimally

yes I know scum do not always play optimally - but the EV difference between bussing and pushing someone else when your scumpartner gets called out by the moderator for fake-claiming is just so so so big that I think almost any scum player who is not a complete noob would definitely pick the bus route.

idk. if u read thru that section she inexplicably wanted to not vote you, which was a p strange reaction from a townie

yes it's weird from a townie but it's beyond suicidal dumb if we were S/S together.

Like I wanted to lynch myself that day and I KNEW what my role pm was.

I’ve already explained that I think he sounded different here than in coalition. From my brief skim, he sounded fake af in that, where he comes off sounding very sincere here. I pay alot of attention to tone. Do you know of a Pooky scumgame where he tonally sounds similar to this one?

[Raven Branwen]

sorry i had to get the pagetop. anway i've been rereading around page 126 where mod confirmed pooky's claim was fake and idk raven's reaction seemed a biiiiit... tmi? in like "i still want to execute dsjstr, but let's see what pooky claims now" and like idk?

pooky claims (4673) that he first asked to get executed in 3435 and that it was risky but shorty after the vig/bomb fiasco but before that post the tides were pretty turned around against dsjstr...

theoretically i could mabye see an s_s/raven team deciding "oh shit pooky's gonna be a great misexecture tomorrow let's get dsjstr today and pooky in lylo" but like... is this s_s/raven??? i don't think it is?????

don't think raven in ss/raven decides to align with pooky to push ss in lylo
and agree with u on raven around the bomb/vig thing, i quoted that a few pages back

yes but there is just no way raven as my partner decides to not bus me there instead of pushing dsj instead - it's just unfathomably bad play if she and I were scum together.

i mean scum don't always play optimally

So why does scum!me draw that kind of attention to myself and risk putting a huge target on my back to save a doomed buddy? And while I’m not surprised you and Dats would think this but I find it very shocking that SS would.

[Raven Branwen]

dsjstr is in this game !! what.

let's kill dsjstr, when someone disappears from my radar THAT much I think they're > rand scum.

not if you're scum with aldu ...

Hard disagree?

If Raven is scum with Alduskkel surely she ends his misery now before they give up more associatives?

So what changed then @SS? Why wouldn’t you think I’d do that with Pooky?

[Raven Branwen]

dsjstr is in this game !! what.

let's kill dsjstr, when someone disappears from my radar THAT much I think they're > rand scum.

not if you're scum with aldu ...

Hard disagree?

If Raven is scum with Alduskkel surely she ends his misery now before they give up more associatives?

So what changed then @SS? Why wouldn’t you think I’d do that with Pooky?

2536 wasn’t supposed to be included, so please ignore that.