Mini Normal 2163: MItGBSMoD [game over!]

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please I’m sorry I’m in a weird mood and may be under some influence ugh I should just resist the urge to post during these times

You’re telling me you don’t think conversation with himself is plausible in the light of this context @andres

Also I think it should be p obvious that IV and I are never aligned

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IV admitted to trying to figure out in which way. And c’mon now, you’re not seriously going to argue that’s pro-Town.

It’s not whether the act itself is pro/anti town it’s about whether the mindset behind it is, and trying to figure out how-gated and not just if-gated is an extrapolation of a thought process that I KNOW is town because I had it myself

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Also I think it should be p obvious that IV and I are never aligned

This is relevant because it makes no sense for both of us as scum to ask about gating on kerset, it would make much more sense for only one member of the scumteam to do so

So you’re left with a world where I’m scum WKing IV for cred, or a world where I’m town and this is a strong defense coming from town

Like there is a chance that IV has pocketed me, which I could maybe believe in a world where he’s exactly scum with teacher or maybe ydrasse but I think that’s unlikely. But unless you think I’m scum then you need to accept there are a lot of good faith reasons to TR IV and I’ve outlined a bunch of them above and those should outweigh a not-even-a-scumslip

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Or break down why my towncase in IV doesn’t make sense

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But either way you need to engage with me on these two things before you keep trying to push IV for the reasons you’re giving because you’re twigging me through this

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Also where in the fuck has saudade gone

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And you could make a case that it makes it more likely for the slip to actually be a thing,

since a Scum player in the right mindset probably ensures not to post something on the main thread that was meant for the Scum PT.

Look, we can debate this until the cows come home, but I am not letting this one go.

IV is clearly now a controversial slot. I would never trust IV in any late state situation in this game. So, I would rather eliminate the slot sooner rather than later.

If IV is Town, the slip and everything that came around it will be used to the advantage of Scum later.

(1) i have straight up never seen someone scumslip from scum PT into main thread. In a neighbourhood thread, sure, or s different scum PT. never into main thread

(2) this is terrible logic? I’m sorry, but it is. IV is a controversial slot in large part because

you’re

pushing so hard that this is a real scumslip and ignoring/avoiding all the reasons for him to be town (in my towncase which didn’t take long to make because there’s plenty there and which you’re largely sidestepping). There’s no reason to think he won’t be redeemable by lategame or that he’ll still be controversial, and the only reason he’ll still be controversial or whatever is if you can’t look beyond what isn’t a scumslip to engage with his content beyond that

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And you could make a case that it makes it more likely for the slip to actually be a thing,

since a Scum player in the right mindset probably ensures not to post something on the main thread that was meant for the Scum PT.

Look, we can debate this until the cows come home, but I am not letting this one go.

IV is clearly now a controversial slot. I would never trust IV in any late state situation in this game. So, I would rather eliminate the slot sooner rather than later.

If IV is Town, the slip and everything that came around it will be used to the advantage of Scum later.

(1) i have straight up never seen someone scumslip from scum PT into main thread. In a neighbourhood thread, sure, or s different scum PT. never into main thread

(2) this is terrible logic? I’m sorry, but it is. IV is a controversial slot in large part because

you’re

pushing so hard that this is a real scumslip and ignoring/avoiding all the reasons for him to be town (in my towncase which didn’t take long to make because there’s plenty there and which you’re largely sidestepping). There’s no reason to think he won’t be redeemable by lategame or that he’ll still be controversial, and the only reason he’ll still be controversial or whatever is if you can’t look beyond what isn’t a scumslip to engage with his content beyond that

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Like you’re actively creating a world where IV has to be eliminated for being “controversial”. It’s circular logic if you can’t explain why the reasons for the “scumslip” being a scumslip are stronger than those for it (1) not being that and (2) being outweighed by the rest of his posting

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UNVOTE: kerset

I do kinda feel like I should eat rope today for reasons stated of me just getting to LYLO and getting absolutely fucked

like if there isn’t anyone we feel strongly about I should probably be the one to go, ate here sorry not sorry but it’s probably true

PlusJOYED? Did the wind just whisper PlusJOYED? Or osuka? The wind is saying both of those names to me

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Ydrasse what are your thoughts on osuka?

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i don’t scumread osuka

okay what do you think then?

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Because scumslips are far more often from town and sorry but I don’t want to guillo IV today when there are like 5 slots minimum that I think are scummier than him /on play/

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Consider my vote on plus in spirit but I’m waiting for a VC

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I will consider IV tomorrow if plus flips scum but osuka still has the best equity for the weird attempt to give him cred for his kerset positioning earlier

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I can’t decide if I should be assertive and push osuka through or if I should stick to my new principle of not forcing wagons on people because it makes it harder to VCA later on

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I like very lightly agree with that but also IRL + timezones

Anyone who was around on site and not posting here has +scum equity but I don’t think that’s anyone? Or at least not that I noticed

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imo you only lose if you're town by not following what you think might be right esp when the game is like This

if you're scum dont do it

I just feel like I’m wrong often enough and because forcing wagons through tends to be like, unpleasant that I’d rather just focus on trying to be as accurate as possible and then hopefully with time I’ll just get sheeped more and have to force things lesd

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Where bob and NDmath at

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VOTE: osuka

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Ydrasse, IV, you should vote osuka

@teacher when you get here I’d like for you to either vote osuka or tell me why I’m wrong

@saudade I want you to tell me what your take is on kerset atp and what you think of osuka

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I’m annoyed btw because it’s a silly post. Like it’s anti-Town and just why make it? If you want to write down thoughts on the game state, why not just do it elsewhere? I do understand that I am making it a bigger deal than it has to be. I get that. But it’s also such an unnecessary post. IV I had you in my small group of untouchables. I had {Saudade, IV, Ydrasse} up there. I have to downgrade Saudade right. I also made the comment earlier as to why (activity around the crumb). But now I just feel very insecure about my reads.

Why downgrade saudade? I still think saudade is town just for like overall engagement with the game

I still think your read on IV is good even if it’s frustrating but I think if you ISO him again, look at my towncase and at your old one then you will be able to get to a point of feeling okay again

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Yo ydrasse, IV, I’m seeing posting but not voting

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Could you please both vote for osuka

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still doing this on mobile

Ur great, ty

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ehh I think I will wait a bit before voting this time but I do note the urgency to vote at this stage

There is literally a single vote on him rn all you do by waiting is decay the gamestate

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Thank you

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Why not compromise on osuka @plus

Also I totally would try to as scum whether or not I’d actually be capable of putting in the energy is another question

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VOTE: saudade I have a hotter take actually

no

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Why?

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I’m still curious to hear the why tho

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the fact that you all seem to be defending him after this worries me a bit tbh
i'm a more details over big picture kinda guy and that post was a huge red flag

It’s literally just been me defending him because scunslips are a dumb reason to scumresd someone

Like I’ve come around on dumb tells a lik but but so much of the time scumslips are from town

Are you arguing he meant to post in the scum PT plus or just that he scumslipped in his mentality?

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Good, thank you

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Andres, i think you should vote osuka too

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Also, going to bed v imminently so if there’s anything you feel a burning need to ask me about hit me now

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VOTE: osuka

Thank you

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Ahh daddy strikes again with the pagetop

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The true source of my scumhunting powers

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scum!him too probably

Moreso, probably

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i think i townread people who post a lot

I think this is often effective but you need to account for the individual and whether they can sustain high post counts as both alignments (I can, btw, I just struggle to maintain engagement over the course of an entire game as scum)

Also to check for how much of high postcount is fluff, and if there’s any abusing of spamposting to control the gamestate/push for shit that’s obviously a terrible idea

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Can we execute plus at some point this game? I want to make sure I’m not the worst player ever.

If I am right on osuka we do plus tomorrow

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Ydrasse, IV, you should vote osuka

@teacher when you get here I’d like for you to either vote osuka or tell me why I’m wrong

@saudade I want you to tell me what your take is on kerset atp and what you think of osuka

Okay going to sleep

Adding to this, I wanna hear from bob and NDmath, but I wanna hear more from bob and again with a focus on his read of the gamestate

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Okay why is osuka not being voted anymore

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I think I might be too high to play rn as I just spent like 2 minutes looking for where my last post was before I realised it was on this page

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Okay why is osuka not being voted anymore

because im town

Why are you town?

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Can someone catch me up

Teacher is claiming informed or backup?

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Vote count 1.27

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-09-18 21:30:00).

execution

innocentvillager [3]:

osuka, Tayl0r Swift, PlusJOYED

bob3141 [3]:

Andresvmb, NDMath, Ydrasse

teacher [2]:

Kerset, bob3141

Kerset [1]:

shellyc

osuka [1]:

Menalque

Not Voting [3]:

innocentvillager, teacher, Saudade

mod notes

~

flavour

These wagons are gross

@teacher @andres @ydrasse why are you not voting with me on osuka?

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&saudade why aren’t you voting

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IV same thing and also why aren’t you voting osuka with me anymore

And Shelly kerset doesn’t look like he’s happening so you should move your vote, and the best place for that is osuka

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@Menalque, @Ydrasse I want us to agree on a course of action. Menalque is obviously on Osuka, but I don’t know that this one gets through, and I do have a Negative Lena there, but I also want to re-read.

This is reasonable, but why do you think osuka can’t go through, and also I’d like to know why you think that might be. Idk, I’m like 20 pages or so behind and I’m not sure what the circumstances of this were, but as far as I can see I was in the middle of building an osuka wagon only for that to be completely derailed as soon as I left and for two new wagons to spring up instead

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Well, for one wagon on IV to swing back into contention/not fade and for a bob wagon to pick up I guess

That suggests to me that there is a significant desire for osuka not to see pressure, and I think that whoever helped to break that wagon down/to deflect attention from there is scummy unless there was a very good reason for it

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I think {Bob, teacher} is not SvS. {Saudade, Kerset} is also not SvS. And {plusJOYED + Tayl0r, IV} I would guess is also not SvS. I want to solve one of these.

Do you specifically think that most of these are TvS?

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&saudade why aren’t you voting

Idk what to do

My mind tells me that kerset is scum but you guys are pussy bitches with no balls to lynch a pr claim

Vote osuka with me

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Vote osuka with me and if kerset doesn’t die tonight I’ll back you on that tomorrow

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Whats the case on bob?

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Please tell me you’re joking

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We’re not 98 pages in, thousands of posts in, and /that’s/ the reason why bob is top wagon

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Yes, scum can get frustrated in fast moving games, so can town

That statement is pretty much entirely NAI for bob imo, and like, is he even wrong about his characterisation of the posts he’s made when he has been here because from my memory that’s not inaccurate?

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Also, why is the talking about prior games thing relevant

I’ll grant that teacher and bob are probably the two slots I’ve thought about least since they townpinged me early but come onnnnnnnnn tell me that you’re kidding and there’s at least like a bullshit scumslip or something there that explains the bob wagon

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I also just, don’t see how that’s at all condemnatory vs osuka’s early day posting particularly and also general trajectory throughout the day

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sorry mena, what's your case on _me_ again? i was gonna say you can't read me but i'm pretty sure you're scum too so you know, whatever

I think your iso is largely empty of any real impetus to solve the game, I think you’ve been lazily tunnelling IV all game because that’s often a strategy of least resistance as scum (“I have reads look how much I think this person is scum! Wait, what about reads on the rest of the PL? Look how scummy this person is!”)

You have a lot of fluffposring that looks like it’s there just to be present and so that you can show up in the thread and not be accused of lurking, and broadly your takes have been very safe apart from the fact that you’re OMGUSing me

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I’ve been reading your ISO and I gotta be honest, I can’t read you.

Okay, I think I can, so can you please get on board with this because I don’t particularly want to get shouty about this.

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There’s also like, a veritable shitton of associatives between plus and osuka so I think that if osuka does flip red plus needs to die tomorrow for sure

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Like I was wondering for a second if he’d defend a buddy quite as blatantly as he is on this page but then seeing as I’m having this much trouble actually getting votes onto osuka I guess it’s not that high risk to be seen as taking a stance defending him

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@bob & IV, do you scumread each other?

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I think {Bob, teacher} is not SvS. {Saudade, Kerset} is also not SvS. And {plusJOYED + Tayl0r, IV} I would guess is also not SvS. I want to solve one of these.

Do you specifically think that most of these are TvS?

I have the lingering suspicion that some of these almost have to be. There’s been too much positioning around Teacher and Kerset for example for some of the people on either side *not* to be Scum. Like Kerset and Teacher could very well both be Town. But the way everybody has been behaving around them and pushing one or defending the other definitely makes me thing that there’s Scum there for certain.

Well yeah, I think that’s very likely, there’s over half the PL in those pairings. G2h which pairing do you think is most likely to have scum?

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sorry mena, what's your case on _me_ again? i was gonna say you can't read me but i'm pretty sure you're scum too so you know, whatever

I think your iso is largely empty of any real impetus to solve the game, I think you’ve been lazily tunnelling IV all game because that’s often a strategy of least resistance as scum (“I have reads look how much I think this person is scum! Wait, what about reads on the rest of the PL? Look how scummy this person is!”)

You have a lot of fluffposring that looks like it’s there just to be present and so that you can show up in the thread and not be accused of lurking, and broadly your takes have been very safe apart from the fact that you’re OMGUSing me

Incidentally I can pull quotes for this if I have to but it’s pretty easily visible if you just ISO osuka

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I’m trying to broadly avoid doing cases as I think they’re mostly useful to scum or as scum when trying to look town vs actually “demonstrating” that anyone is scum through like the sheer power of logic or whatever

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Why.

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Did you read the like 5 pages that I spent telling about why IV is town

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Like do I need to repeat myself because I was stuttering the first time or?

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Oh, also, osuka has been posting elsewhere on site while not posting here

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On like, a fairly regular basis throughout the day, which I was trying to not bring up because of vague angle-shooty concerns and because of datisi having to yell so many times about not breaching the ongoing games rule but like, nope, people gonna force my hand

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I’ve seen enough towny from Osuka to make me not want to lynch them. I think they have done sorting outside of a lazy IV push. They aren’t expressing it, but it’s in how they talk with slots and about them. I don’t know — good feels about their apporach. I discussed it around the time of my rolestopper stupidity, but I don’t see any reason for scum!Osuka to step in there at all.

Like

where

though. I skimmed his ISO again earlier and it’s super fuckin empty and the noise-content ratio is awful. Show me like 3 posts where they’re displaying a “solving mentality” bc I just don’t think it’s there at all

What was your rolestopper stupidity and what about osuka’s intervention was townie?

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Like do I need to repeat myself because I was stuttering the first time or?

Hi Hiraki. No I got it and I don’t disagree with you — there is a reason I was trying to consolidate a counter - but I don’t get the Osuka case.

Low blow

Reread in particular his early day posts while everything is still much more in flux. He’s unable to generate authentic reads so he sticks to his tunnel on IV as a source of creating content. When the gamestate has stabilised and people’s stances/positions are clearer, he becomes more expansive but specifically in a way that isn’t liable to rock the boat. I haven’t read as closely from that point on, I’ll admit, but I think that, plus the ton of fluff, plus the ellitelling is more than enough that osuka should be the lynch todsy

Also, why, if he’s town, has it been borderline impossible to get any sort of wagon or sustained pressure there especially when I’m so clearly culpable and going to take the hit if I’m wrong? Like why is there seemingly no scum interested in getting a nice early spot on the wagon. And this is more telling given that the number of people actually expressing townreads on osuka are... what, plus? Is anyone else actually townreading him? Because whenever I’ve asked people seem to have been null-scummy or evasive and yet IN SPITE of that, I apparently can’t pick up more than a 4 vote wagon that lasted for all of one night and was long gone by the time I logged back in

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That’s also I think a sufficient response to 2483

Also plus has done some town things (him calling for consolidation on wagons as we hit under 2 days was good like a moment ago, and I think there were other things that gave me some pause when I first started pushing him as scum) whereas osuka... just hasn’t imo? But like I said, talk to me about whatever you think you saw in him around the rolestopper thing

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Will do - I’m mobile limited rn so not going to try to iso and quote. The rolestopper was last night when I tried to get the consolidation/counter in Kerset because his supposed Pr would be negated and not resolved by the known-to-me-to-exist rolestopper. Of course that’s not how tolestopper works, but I had kicked it to role locker and even convinced Shelley. Osuka corrected it. I don’t see how that benefitted scum him in any way to step in.

That seems like incredibly easy towncred for correcting something that was very likely to be corrected? Like I was confused in the first half of the para bc I couldn’t see how rolestopper would interfere with doc!kerset so like, that was bound to be corrected

It’s not like deliberately helping explain a complicated ++town win equity strategy in a complicated new setup

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Also seems like the sort of thing I would expect bob or kerset to pick up

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Low blow

It was just the use of the word stutter which triggered in my head. No insult intended.

I was also speaking in a lighthearted tone at this point

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Also will do on the reread, but a couple quick hits:

I don’t think you can accurately say that the game has stabilized.
As for the sustained pressure — if you TR his brief wagon, you should join those same people on bob, or at least reinvestigate that read. I shared your pings but that slot has decidedly moved for me.

More after 8ish.

I think the game *was* stabilising you to the point where I was uptodate and until kerset claimed at which point it became in flux again. And also, tellingly, I don’t really remember osuka being around during that second period of flux immediately following the claim, or if he was then he said absolutely nothing memorable or contributiva enough to leave a mark on my memory

And yeah, bob is a slot I probably need to reconsider along with you, I said that earlier. But I don’t see when I’m low on time and we’re coming to the end of the day and I’m calling osuka scum with a fairly high level of confidence that I should need to move onto bob who has at least townpinged me at SOME point during the day instead of moving those people back onto osuka

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Especially as I will make bob and IV vote there provided they’re not scumreading each other, so I have 3 votes essentially, I just need to get some combination of (you, Andres, ydrasse, saudade, shelly) to vote with me too

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@saudade you should take me up on my offer

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@saudade you should take me up on my offer

Spoiler:

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Andres i can see ur online come here and vote osuka

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I’m going to make dinner, you’ve given me some good thoughts. My last request for you is to reread Bob

I will get to it but I’ll get to it faster if you help me have a wagon I’m happy with first

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Hi IV

Do you scumresd bob?

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Hi ydrasse, hows voting for osuka going on this fine evening?

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No, you didnt, do you scumresd bob

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Okay, vote for osuka if you want to live

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i feel like i don’t know how to read osuka so he wins

wow i wonder which alignment benefits from deliberately making themselves difficult to get a read on

did you read my posts on the last page just to save me repeating myself unnecessarily? Like yes, I don’t think he’s solving. I think the things you’re saying are very much wolf!indicstive for him! Like I feel like you are at the point where it should be making a lot of sense to you that osuka is scum, and you also think he will help sort s ton of other people if flipped!

v o t e h i m

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like not only is that a shameless angleshoot, it's also just completely fabricated and if you need more evidence of scum mena then i dont know what to tell you

i'm still convinced iv is scum but i'm very quickly growing to like the idea of getting rid of _this_ fucker on day 1 instead

lmao okay, it’s not and it’s something I spotted on other days but didn’t feel the need to call out immediately

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also i think that it’ll help sort like. a ton of people if osuka is flipped.

Btw which exact slots do you think would be sorted more easily from an osuka flip?

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like not only is that a shameless angleshoot

Big caught for the wrong reasons vibe, incidentally

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actually, both alignments get a benefit from deliberately making themselves difficult to read

obvtown gets nightkilled. let's stop pretending you can't play the fucking game yeah

lol this is just whack. No. There is a significant benefit to making yourself as obvtown as possible as much as possible in any given game, be that as town or as scum. The benefits to being a hard read are literally only as scum or people who have a stupid notion of how to play PR (ps it’s still to obvtown so that you don’t get wagoned and forced to out for nothing)

There is a very concrete benefit to deliberately trying to make yourself hard to read as scum because AS IS HAPPENING IN THIS EXACT GAME it leaves people reluctant to vote you because MaYbE hE’s JuSt HaRd tO rEaD

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there's no point in posting fluff because it's a waste of time for all involved. what's your point here? do you think i'm coasting? my postcount probably disagrees

How incredibly ironic given that a huge amount of your post count is exactly fluff

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Osuka is basically caught scum who’s now trying to AtE his way out

Like I would have still had some doubt if he wasn’t outright lying about ellitelling and trying to paint me as misrepoing him lmao

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like not only is that a shameless angleshoot, it's also just completely fabricated and if you need more evidence of scum mena then i dont know what to tell you

i'm still convinced iv is scum but i'm very quickly growing to like the idea of getting rid of _this_ fucker on day 1 instead

lmao okay, it’s not and it’s something I spotted on other days but didn’t feel the need to call out immediately

i only post when i have something to say

there's no point in posting fluff because it's a waste of time for all involved.

what's your point here? do you think i'm coasting? my postcount probably disagrees

Okay:

that has 80% accuracy rate

Ok, is like a truthiness thing or actual data, because I gotta day it sounds hella made up.

did you know up to 72% of statistics you read online are completely made up

Listen I know some of you played with scum!me

... but this is town!me

PURE TOWNIE ENERGY
LOOK AT ME I'M SO TOWN

i'm already annoyed
VOTE: shelly

everyone needs to calm down i can't keep up

anD WHOSE PROBLEM IS THAT, NOW

this is the rvs energy i was waiting for

sadly i should probs go soon

if you go i'm gonna flashtrain you

iv is not town

Lol readlist page 10

omg somebody posted an entire 3 team scum solve,
Jesus should've told me im playing with mafia gods

INTENT TO HAMMER ON PLUSJOYED

the way you’re playing this game is giving me brain damage

INTENT TO HAMMER ON PLUSJOYED

the way you’re playing this game is giving me brain damage

I was reaction testing.

I would be ashamed to call that a reaction test

I can see how you would see the discrepancy as being AI but in reality I just learned a lot from that first game and gained more confidence in my reads since they turned out pretty close. It's NAI but you don't have to believe me.

IMO confidence is a scumtell

being confident indicates that you are sure about your reads

scum are INFORMED and know if they are right or wrong

look at my completed games

i post in a very sure attitude and it's not AI

154 indicates that they agree with my TR on them and instead of adding anything to it they just latch on and do nothing else.
283 says "only read TR" without a real explanation

?????

VOTE: innocentvillager is obvscumming

Can you elaborate as to why you think this?

no

Oh, and all I remember from last night was getting a fairly strong impression that teacher was town from the way he reacted to my entrance

VOTE: ydrasse

I don't like this vote without reasoning to go with and you're not caught up. We're past the random voting stage, that could have been an accidental hammer

do you seriously think scum would quickhammer on page 10?

lurkerman

Who is this btw?

osuka

lol why am I lurkerman

you know who is town and who is scum

well you’re right about that part

scumclaim

test

you failed the test

This is not a kawaii waifu. :/

policy lynch
VOTE: kerset

dont know where that quot came from

from post 142 clearly

wtf?!

this is half a prodge

Actually, Osuka is probably fine - I appreciate the dry posting, though I feel a bit iffy about you going so hard for shellyc at times when it’s clear that shellyc hasn’t played all that many games (and if Town, probably doesn’t have a great sense of how to find Scum).

newbies get approximately zero leeway with me outside of the newbie queue

unfortunately I rolled town this game

which is sad since being scum is real fun

nvm even in my chat mafia days I always got SR as town

I don't like sheeping

I don't like being self aware

and I don't like dark avis

VOTE: PlusJoy

PUSH IT TO E-1

lets duel

INTENT TO HAMMER ON PLUSJOYED

Like these posts stick out to me. There’s an admission that being Scum is more fun (which squares with posting outside of this game), there’s a lot of comments on how their reads are very much gut based (with some clear posting as to how she intends to find Scum - confidence and apparent self-awareness being up there), and a weird flip on plusJOYED which she was TR previously. Does any of this strike you as Scum? Because I’m not seeing it.

playful newbie lamist bullshit is what it strikes me as

{plus, ydrasse, menal}
{shelly, andres}
{Taylor}
{ndmath, bob, kerset, Saudade, osuka}
{teacher}

i'm flattered

stream of consciousness is nai

Is anyone else seeing the problem here

[Menalque]

actually, both alignments get a benefit from deliberately making themselves difficult to read

obvtown gets nightkilled. let's stop pretending you can't play the fucking game yeah

lol this is just whack. No. There is a significant benefit to making yourself as obvtown as possible as much as possible in any given game, be that as town or as scum. The benefits to being a hard read are literally only as scum or people who have a stupid notion of how to play PR (ps it’s still to obvtown so that you don’t get wagoned and forced to out for nothing)

There is a very concrete benefit to deliberately trying to make yourself hard to read as scum because AS IS HAPPENING IN THIS EXACT GAME it leaves people reluctant to vote you because MaYbE hE’s JuSt HaRd tO rEaD

go read my previous games and you'll see i get mislynched very frequently on day 1

Okay? That says nothing meaningful about your alignment this game

Osuka is basically caught scum who’s now trying to AtE his way out

Like I would have still had some doubt if he wasn’t outright lying about ellitelling and trying to paint me as misrepoing him lmao

you _are_ misrepping me

2530 is scumposting

lol

[Menalque]

Scum says “2530 is misrepping me!“?

[Menalque]

Like bro I literally quoted you, the part which has the “caught for the wrong reasons” vibe

is

you bitching that it’s angleshooting DESPITE it apparently being totally fabricated

[Menalque]

If it’s fabricated how the fuck is it an angleshoot

[Menalque]

If it’s fabricated it’s just fabricated and you’d not care if it was angleshooting or not

The fact you do is because you know it’s true and you’re pissed that I called you on it

[Menalque]

at least half of those aren't fluff, mena. it's not my fault you struggle with extracting meaningful information from simple sentences

lol okay

Saying “this is a scum post” without any other info or “lockscum” is fluff posting

[Menalque]

It’s basicallyjj the definition of the same, contentless posting with the intention of looking active/solvey

[Menalque]

2530 is a misrep. i didn't vote you for angleshooting, i voted you for quite literally making shit up about my activity here and elsewhere and for trying to use that as leverage in a push against me

now that's a little more explicitly written, do you understand what i'm saying or do you want me to draw it out?

Idgaf why you voted me lol, you voted me bc you’re omgussing

I’m not making up jackshit, and the fact that instead of admitting you’ve been putting in more focus elsewhere on site and de prioritising this game is +scum

The fact you’re lying about it now is +++scum

And also it’s like, the most mild form of angleshooting and it’s not even something I was /trying/ to do, I noticed when I was idling on homepage

[Menalque]

like frankly if you want to figure out what i'm thinking then you can either ask me specific questions or figure it out for yourself. it's not my job to dump my brain into a thread because you feel like looking at it

Only in pretty sure that if not I specifically then people did and you deliberately avoided answering. And like you can say whatever you want to try and justify it, deliberately being cagey and laconic IS scum indicative because the less you put out as scum the easier it is to not get caught in a lie. I know this because I’m decent to reasonable as scum and it’s like an active feature of my scumgsme to be slightly more reserved about my thought process to be able to make posthoc adjustments later on

[Menalque]

There’s no way this is TvT right? Because if so, we really are screwed.

No, it’s not, osuka is here actively lying about his activity tell and trying to shove off my entire push as a scumpushed misrep

Also allowing him to avoid engaging thoroughly with the earlier reasons I have for him being scum, incidentally

[Menalque]

i don’t understand what is going on

VOTE. FOR. OSUKA.

[Menalque]

IV, it’s very simple

If you TR me, then can you please just fucking work with me and put a vote down on the person who is openwolfing

[Menalque]

why is osuka scum

Right now it’s because HES OPENLY LYING IN THREAD

[Menalque]

I’ve seen enough towny from Osuka to make me not want to lynch them. I think they have done sorting outside of a lazy IV push. They aren’t expressing it, but it’s in how they talk with slots and about them. I don’t know — good feels about their apporach. I discussed it around the time of my rolestopper stupidity, but I don’t see any reason for scum!Osuka to step in there at all.

Like

where

though. I skimmed his ISO again earlier and it’s super fuckin empty and the noise-content ratio is awful. Show me like 3 posts where they’re displaying a “solving mentality” bc I just don’t think it’s there at all

What was your rolestopper stupidity and what about osuka’s intervention was townie?

Like do I need to repeat myself because I was stuttering the first time or?

Hi Hiraki. No I got it and I don’t disagree with you — there is a reason I was trying to consolidate a counter - but I don’t get the Osuka case.

Low blow

Reread in particular his early day posts while everything is still much more in flux. He’s unable to generate authentic reads so he sticks to his tunnel on IV as a source of creating content. When the gamestate has stabilised and people’s stances/positions are clearer, he becomes more expansive but specifically in a way that isn’t liable to rock the boat. I haven’t read as closely from that point on, I’ll admit, but I think that, plus the ton of fluff, plus the ellitelling is more than enough that osuka should be the lynch todsy

Also, why, if he’s town, has it been borderline impossible to get any sort of wagon or sustained pressure there especially when I’m so clearly culpable and going to take the hit if I’m wrong? Like why is there seemingly no scum interested in getting a nice early spot on the wagon. And this is more telling given that the number of people actually expressing townreads on osuka are... what, plus? Is anyone else actually townreading him? Because whenever I’ve asked people seem to have been null-scummy or evasive and yet IN SPITE of that, I apparently can’t pick up more than a 4 vote wagon that lasted for all of one night and was long gone by the time I logged back in

Will do - I’m mobile limited rn so not going to try to iso and quote. The rolestopper was last night when I tried to get the consolidation/counter in Kerset because his supposed Pr would be negated and not resolved by the known-to-me-to-exist rolestopper. Of course that’s not how tolestopper works, but I had kicked it to role locker and even convinced Shelley. Osuka corrected it. I don’t see how that benefitted scum him in any way to step in.

That seems like incredibly easy towncred for correcting something that was very likely to be corrected? Like I was confused in the first half of the para bc I couldn’t see how rolestopper would interfere with doc!kerset so like, that was bound to be corrected

It’s not like deliberately helping explain a complicated ++town win equity strategy in a complicated new setup

There’s also these posts where I go into more depth on why he’s scummy

[Menalque]

VOTE: innocentvillager is obvscumming

Can you elaborate as to why you think this?

no

[Menalque]

@2575 obviously

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I’m not going back to try to look for cases where you just ignored questions rather than actively refused to answer them tho, although I’m p sure they’re there

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Ydrasse i feel like you are saying things that lead into an osuka vote and if that is indeed the case can you please put me out of my misery and put ur vote down

[Menalque]

If osuka is town and IV is scum i will self

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There’s no way this is TvT right? Because if so, we really are screwed.

No, it’s not, osuka is here actively lying about his activity tell and trying to shove off my entire push as a scumpushed misrep

Also allowing him to avoid engaging thoroughly with the earlier reasons I have for him being scum, incidentally

you can't read me and it shows. i make it a point to not give tells and i have actually momentarily forgotten my alignment in previous games

Is anyone really buying this lmao

Think back over your previous games, literally anyone with a town role PM

Have you ever, literally ever, forgotten your alignment. I have no idea what possessed you to mak this post when you’re so clearly blowing smoke out of your ass but wow

[Menalque]

Also, notice how he’s still trying to shift the goalposts during this — he’s going from talking about how I’m scum who’s fabricating a case on him or whatever to talking about how I can’t read him

Like if I’m scum then obviously I don’t need to read him so why is he concerned with shouting about how unreadable he is and that he’s the ~unparseable man, enigma to all~? It’s bc he’s salty he’s been caught, he thinks it’s unfairly, and so he’s bitching about it by telling me that I can’t read him

[Menalque]

i have actually in the past, though i was scum in that game. iirc it was like my second or third game on ms

it wasn't for long to be fair but it's much easier to play scum if you put yourself in a town mindset

Okay I was looking for comments from non-openwolves tho

[Menalque]

Also, notice how he’s still trying to shift the goalposts during this — he’s going from talking about how I’m scum who’s fabricating a case on him or whatever to talking about how I can’t read him

Like if I’m scum then obviously I don’t need to read him so why is he concerned with shouting about how unreadable he is and that he’s the ~unparseable man, enigma to all~? It’s bc he’s salty he’s been caught, he thinks it’s unfairly, and so he’s bitching about it by telling me that I can’t read him

i'm not gonna keep repeating myself. i've said youre fabricating and that is true. i've said you can't read me and that is true

the second part about not being able to read me is only relevant because when trying to make it look like you have a real case on someone, you have to make it sound like it's real and that comes with reasons that sound like they're real. none of yours fit in that category

Bruh

[Menalque]

We’re at the bruhlympics

[Menalque]

You don’t know how to make townsounding posts as scum osuka, I’m sorry

[Menalque]

i'm not gonna keep repeating myself. i've said youre fabricating and that is true. i've said you can't read me and that is true

the second part about not being able to read me is only relevant because when trying to make it look like you have a real case on someone, you have to make it sound like it's real and that comes with reasons that sound like they're real. none of yours fit in that category

Literally wtf are you even trying to say in the second para here

Like if I’m outed scum to you, which I apparently am, then IM NOT RESDING YOU from your own pov

My ability to read you is only relevant in a world where I’m town which this apparently CANNOT BE for you based on what you’re saying

[Menalque]

can you quote again for me where osuka is lying? like literally lying?

Yes one second

[Menalque]

mena have you looked at osuka's meta

No

[Menalque]

On like, a fairly regular basis throughout the day, which I was trying to not bring up because of vague angle-shooty concerns and because of datisi having to yell so many times about not breaching the ongoing games rule but like, nope, people gonna force my hand

this is actually just false and while i cannot discuss other games, i can tell you that i only sat in front of this computer a little over an hour ago and have only been posting since

nice try though

like not only is that a shameless angleshoot, it's also just completely fabricated and if you need more evidence of scum mena then i dont know what to tell you

i'm still convinced iv is scum but i'm very quickly growing to like the idea of getting rid of _this_ fucker on day 1 instead

Osuka is basically caught scum who’s now trying to AtE his way out

Like I would have still had some doubt if he wasn’t outright lying about ellitelling and trying to paint me as misrepoing him lmao

you _are_ misrepping me

2530 is scumposting

2530 is a misrep. i didn't vote you for angleshooting, i voted you for quite literally making shit up about my activity here and elsewhere and for trying to use that as leverage in a push against me

now that's a little more explicitly written, do you understand what i'm saying or do you want me to draw it out?

it's an angleshoot because you're not supposed to discuss other games and that's ~almost~ what you did. how is an angleshoot remotely related to the truth of the statement

i'm annoyed because your push is fabricated dogshit and i hate having to argue with someone who is clearly not a complete moron but is pretending to be

[Menalque]

what is ellitelling?

It’s a fairly reliable scumtell ellibereth figures out and it’s basically that scum tend to avoid games they’re scum in while still being active in other games or elsewhere on site. Osuka has been, throughout this game day, posting elsewhere on site but not here and has consistently, when posting here, prioritised it last vs posting elsewhere on site

mena have you looked at osuka's meta

No

if i pick give you two random links that are ISOs osuka isos, one town one scum, do you think you can figure out which one is which

I mean this seems redundant given that osuka is like literally openwolfing at this point but I’d say I’d have decent odds if he’s normally this Wolfy?

[Menalque]

how could you POSSIBLY know i'm lying in 2480?

I am obviously talking about you trying to generally deny this as a pattern of behaviour you’ve been exhibiting and you feeling the need to try and quibble on this one detail rather than refute the overarching point is yet one more reason why you’re scum

[Menalque]

Andres, can you please vote here now

[Menalque]

Throughout this game day jfc

[Menalque]

how could you POSSIBLY know i'm lying in 2480?

I am obviously talking about you trying to generally deny this as a pattern of behaviour you’ve been exhibiting and you feeling the need to try and quibble on this one detail rather than refute the overarching point is yet one more reason why you’re scum

that's not a detail, that's one of the pillars of your sad push

you've been shoveling the fact that i'm apparently lying down everyone's throats for the past several pages and to rub it off like i'm latching on to a detail is manipulative

I know you’re lying because I have seen your name pop up as “most recent post” in other forums while you haven’t been posting here

I’ve seen this on multiple days, although I haven’t been keeping track

This is verifiable even if I can’t quote on it

[Menalque]

That’s why you’re lying, and that’s why I’m calling you out for trying to quibble the details

[Menalque]

Wolf says “do you even bother to look at time stamps?”

[Menalque]

you two realize no one is going to go through this right

I will shepherd people through it like sweet baby lambs until this scumfuck is on the chopping block and the guillotine-y boi goes swoosh

[Menalque]

I think the evidence is pretty overwhelming at this point tho so I don’t think it should be too hard

I think on top of his general ISO and approach to the day, on top of him lying about his activity patterns, he’s also shown that he knows my alignment in the posts where he’s complaining about me not knowing how to read him etc me having bad reads blah blah blah

And I get that, it’s shit when you think you’ve been caught for a reason that’s not valid (or that’s angleshooting in his case, which seems to be why he’s lying about the ellitell) and like yeah, it feels bad, but he’s fundamentally still scum, he’s shown it very clearly at this point, and he needs to die today

[Menalque]

Also, again, where is the scum if osuka is town and why are they not capitalising on me pushing town? Why are there definitively a number of slots highly reluctant to vote osuka despite me providing what is essentially a shitton of cover for them

Why has there been no opportunistic sniffing around osuka all day when he’s been pushed or suggested as scum?

[Menalque]

It is almost as though a small faction of the game, known to one another but not to los demás, have a converted interest in that slot surviving and not receiving too much pressure

[Menalque]

surprisedpikachu.jpg

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Osuka: I’m going for dinner and leaving the thread
Active users on site 15 minutes later: osuka
Osuka, in the scum PT: guys what do I do
Osuka, returning the main thread and realising he forgot to turn on “appear offline”: fuck

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Oh, and before you think about lying about that I took a screenshot that I am entirely petty enough to upload to flickr and to link here if you do try to deny that you stayed here either stalking the thread or posting in the scumpt when you get back

[Menalque]

looooooooooool and now he’s gone offline you cannot make this shit up

[Menalque]

Too good, I stg

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I miss games where everyone is European and it’s not a matter of stay up until 2 am if I wanna talk to anyone

[Menalque]

Andres, teacher, bob — when I get around to checking thread tomorrow we’re gonna be like a day and a half from deadline and I’m expecting to see your votes on osuka after everything that’s happened the last few pages.

Saud, shelly, i would also suggest to both of you that osuka is the best place for your votes rn
M

[Menalque]

i do not think osuka going offline after they said they were going offline is the slam dunk you wanted among all of this tbh

No, no — it’s osuka saying they were going offline, /still being in active users 15 minutes later/ and then going offline within about a minute of me posting that call out in thread

[Menalque]

I genuinely cannot fathom how some people can scumread someone with so much confidence on so little

I know it clashes with my playstyle but I literally cannot

Generally when I’ve caught someone in a lie and they double down on it instead of trying to explain it away my confidence interval jumps significantly

[Menalque]

But do you know how long active users takes to update.

......is it not a live tracker

[Menalque]

How about a quick osuka vote before you go and enjoy doing that teacher

[Menalque]

Also, again, where is the scum if osuka is town and why are they not capitalising on me pushing town? Why are there definitively a number of slots highly reluctant to vote osuka despite me providing what is essentially a shitton of cover for them

Why has there been no opportunistic sniffing around osuka all day when he’s been pushed or suggested as scum?

this isn’t really a case until you start putting names and pools and shit because obviously wagons dissolve and appear on both alignments for different reasons

sure are they slightly more likely to dissolve on scum, probably, but that isn’t a case just a small positive

scum are also fine with this ending in a no elimination, if all wagons are town for example there is no need to rush anything

Okay but like notably there have been ~questionable~ votes on I think all the other main wagons today? Whereas the votes on osuka have been exclusively from people I’m fairly confidently TRing and I think that’s important

Like I think it was me, Andres, ydrasse the first time? Maybe teacher too

And this time you me ydrasse

Like if ndmath, Taylor, plus were hopping on and off I’d be more like ehhhhh about it but I do think having only slots I think are town voting there and that wagon specifically having trouble taking off at all is +scum

[Menalque]

i don't like mena's tunnel here they are getting super desperate

Ehh I’m hardpushing it, I wouldn’t say I’m desperate

[Menalque]

Errrrr i think I may have fucked up but I’m not sure

[Menalque]

UNVOTE:

[Menalque]

So I was catching up and I got to teacher’s post about not seeing the ellitell in osuka’s posting

I was confused because like even in the case of scum teacher I would expect him to not double down on a wagon that’s going through and that he’s like softbussiing by talking about how he’s willing to compromise there blah blah so anyway I went through osuka’s onsite posting from the start of today until now and uhhh I’m not sure the ellitell case is as strong as I thought but I don’t think I can explain more than that rn

But then that also means that his indignance or whatever probably wasn’t scum!indicative nor was his massive OMGUS and like I’m now wondering if scum him actually reacts that strongly or not

[Menalque]

And I’m also now wondering if I’ve been totally wrong on IV lmao

[Menalque]

But for IV to be scum that means my reads are pretty much completely ass backwards bc I don’t see how the wagon on him is town unless scum are really committing on a bus while I force through osuka?

[Menalque]

That seems like a bad play to be stuck on your scumbuddy for the majority of the day in the hope that a townie is going to force through a different wagon when it took persuading for me to push osuka in the first place and there was no way to know that I’d get locked into him then

[Menalque]

{andres}
{plus, ydrasse}
{teacher}
{mena, bob}
{saud}
{shelly, taylor, kerset, osuka, NDMath}

i think im here but like very unstably

I hate this, to put it mildly

[Menalque]

IV why are you voting yourself when one of your bottom pool would have been at L-1 if you’d kept your vote there?

[Menalque]

And how do you not have any confident scumreads at this point in the day

[Menalque]

Also like I find you positioning me in null really weird especially given how a lot of people have been drawing connective lines to us, especially as it’s felt like you’ve been working with me as you would s fairly strong TR when we’ve been talking throughout the day

[Menalque]

Also

[Menalque]

Daddy mena strikes again

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Fuck me i feel so lost again

[Menalque]

Or like, on the verge but just like not quite there

[Menalque]

Okay so IV/osuka can’t be S/S i think, I don’t think osuka enters by lolbussing his buddy from literally the beginning of the day throughout and doesn’t really change that read at all

I also think probably plus/IV can’t be S/S because i don’t think, again, that plus decides to lolbus all day while IV hard defends him as town whenever it comes up but won’t like actually case him or given reasons for much of the day. That just seems like a really weird and unproductive way for scum to interact

[Menalque]

Also like I find you positioning me in null really weird especially given how a lot of people have been drawing connective lines to us, especially as it’s felt like you’ve been working with me as you would s fairly strong TR when we’ve been talking throughout the day

why is it scummy that I am not hard townreading you? I don’t understand

I’m specifically bothered that in a world where osuka is not scum that you’re deliberately tying me to you so that if you go down then I go down too

And the fact that you’ve called me town before, it felt like you’ve interacted with me believing I’m town throughout most of the day too, it’s concerning that I’m in null aka the first place where people look for scumpartners after a flip

[Menalque]

Why did I stop scumreading Taylor

[Menalque]

@taylor what convinced you so much that IV had scumslipped?

[Menalque]

Like why were you so certain that was a scumslip

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IV give me the cliff notes on Andres as your top TR?

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Teacher is very very likely to be town I think, I don’t think scum!teacher bothers checking osuka’s posting and I don’t think he calls attention to it being bad except in the exact scenario that he’s scum with osuka but then the rest of his trajectory doesn’t really make sense for them to be scum together? Because why do you softbus but keep saying you’re willing to compromise there when you put yourself into a scenario where /not/ compromising there looks awful atEoD but also you don’t get a lot of cred for the bus if you’re only voting your buddy through compromise

[Menalque]

Because if teacher is scum and osuka is town and scum!teacher realised that the ellitell logic for osuka!scum isn’t great but he sees that I’ve pushed that wagon to the brink of flipping, there’s no way he calls attention to it for the towncred instead of using it to completely discredit me tomorrow and either sideline me or directly push for my flip

[Menalque]

I’m having doubts about Andres

I don’t like his positioning around the osuka wagon and specifically his very tentative moves around it being likely SvT but also staying off it until relatively late and compromising on

[Menalque]

Like in particular it twigs me that he’s saying that when I now don’t think the case on osuka is nearly as strong as I did, and it fits very much into the pattern of someone coming on late to support the thing while encouraging the idea that I take the lion’s share of responsibility

Which isn’t wrong, idk it’s hard to put my finger on, but it’s like troublesome that he’s coming on late and suggesting that it’s comparatively unlikely to be SvT because my aggression was too strong or whatever

[Menalque]

To be clear, I’m not interested in doing Andres today and I can’t see that happening but if I die tonight I’d suggest looking more closely there tomorrow

Although I think that’s unlikely unless we do flip osuka and he’s scum after all, but in that case Andres is v prob town too

[Menalque]

Andres is town. Come get Bob who is now just straight lying about my own past games.

Why is Andres town? I’ll reread bob now

[Menalque]

I have read this more than a couple times and I still do not understand sorry

what exactly did teacher do? He pointed out the elli tell you were trying to push for scum!osuka was a bad argument, and you think he would’ve brought it up tomorrow instead?

>be scum!teacher
>see town!mena pushing town!osuka very hard on a bad premise
>decide to check town!osuka’s posting
>realise that the ellitell is weak due to the posting that osuka was doing elsewhere on site at times when he wasn’t here being incredibly minimal or in-like with the patterns of a working day
>decide that the best option is to bring that to the attention of (1) mena, who can then recalibrate and (2) to the rest of the thread, who may recalibrate and decide not to give you a free misguillo and a target to push tomorrow for having hard pushed the misguillo

[Menalque]

^^thats not a thought process that I think makes sense for scum!teacher to go through if we assume he’s pursuing his wincon

[Menalque]

@teacher okay why does scum!bob choose to tell an easily verifiable lie to push you tho, when there’s a juicy wagon available on osuka or IV? Who I don’t think are scum together fwiw

[Menalque]

Completely logical trajectories to me. Consistent solving approach. Just not seeing purposeful avoidment of any topics or people. I just grok where his posts are coming from almost any time he posts, and I cant make up a scum narrative for it. I kinda like the miller claim, especially after an ascetic, but thats pretty minor at this point -- I liked it more that he didnt push the ascetic after the claim which reduces scum motivation for it.

Ehhh i need to reread the bit around the “scumslip” from IV because that seemed weird to me at the time, although I did like how he responded

Idk if bob!scum then who else fits with him? I would have said ND but I don’t think he just voteparks him there? So like I could see Taylor but I could also see Taylor + Andres which is scaring me as they both encouraged the treating of the scumslip as serious

If IV!scum then frankly idek where I need to be looking beyond I think my townreads are probably broadly wrong

[Menalque]

Datisi did u mess up and leave my name in mod colour for a second

[Menalque]

Saudade do you scumread osuka of are you voting there because I asked you to?

[Menalque]

I kinda just wanna sheep daddy saudade

[Menalque]

Datisi did u mess up and leave my name in mod colour for a second

shhh don't call out my dumbass mod errors like that

Whoopsie

[Menalque]

I’m not saying osuka is town, I’m saying the reasons I had for lockscumming him yesterday based on his reaction to my calling out his ellitell was NAI I think

[Menalque]

I’m kind of in flux and idk where I want to go rn

[Menalque]

I’m not saying osuka is town, I’m saying the reasons I had for lockscumming him yesterday based on his reaction to my calling out his ellitell was NAI I think

You’re making me want to throw my phone towards the wall.

Wonderful

Why

[Menalque]

Menalque coming out with their nonsense about how I’m all of a sudden suspicious because I didn’t vote for Osuka when they wanted me to but after I had taken some time to reflect is really putting me over the edge here. That set of posts was the epitome of not taking ownership for your mistakes. I wasn’t the one arguing that another player had tripped a particular tell only to backtrack later. Give me a break.

Fam I’m not even pushing you?? The fact that you were saying you supported osuka wagon (or weren’t opposed?) or something but that you wanted to see how things shook out meant that I had to do ALL of the pushing there and take all of the heat

Yes, it’s concerning to me that when I was catching up i then saw you posting about how you thought that the wagon that you had verbally been in at least tacit support of while it was building would spew me scum if it flipped town because something was off about it

[Menalque]

I’m not saying osuka is town, I’m saying the reasons I had for lockscumming him yesterday based on his reaction to my calling out his ellitell was NAI I think

You’re making me want to throw my phone towards the wall.

Wonderful

Why

How am I supposed to trust your view of Osuka when you readily admit that part of your argument is compromised?

...because the other part is still valid? Like my being wrong on the ellitell (which I couldn’t go into details on but have tried to detail as much as poss) doesn’t remove the other things that are scummy about his play throughout the day

I’m just also less sure on that bc I don’t know if he would react that violently as scum

I mean, I’m thinking it’s NAI from an intellectual standpoint because sure, scum get salty about being caught for the wrong reasons

But like, idk if scum!osuka gets that salty and kind of righteous as scum for being caught for the wrong reasons

[Menalque]

You expressed such certainty about Osuka, that it was hard for me to see a world where Osuka’s alignment has no bearing on yours. Why is that difficult for you to understand?

I find it odd that you’re not reconciling the difference between that certainty coming from a place where I was sure that osuka was straight up lying vs how I’m looking at it now

[Menalque]

I’m not even saying that’s scummy but I just find it weird

[Menalque]

But actually wait, explain more to me

Why did my level of certainty imply my alignment in relation to osuka? That’s what I’m not getting

[Menalque]

I didn’t say it was ridiculous

I’m saying it worried me because I can absolutely see how scum!you seeing me start pushing and deciding to stay out of it during the wagon while not actively opposing it knowing that if I succeed in pushing the wagon through then (1) you get a free misguillo and (2) I’m significantly weakened and open to a push later, something that I don’t think scum!you realistically sees as viable today for instance

That’s not to say that I think you’re scum, but I had you pretty solidly as town, and you making posts that felt like you were setting up for a narrative in line with point (2) pinged me

[Menalque]

But actually wait, explain more to me

Why did my level of certainty imply my alignment in relation to osuka? That’s what I’m not getting

Because aggressively asking for someone’s head is a great way to clear players, particularly early. If Osuka flips Scum, you really think I’m going to turn around and assume you’re Scum? The evidence would have to be overwhelming.

Okay but earlier you were saying my being wrong would be a significant bump in scum equity for me, no? Why?

[Menalque]

If Osuka flips Town, I would absolutely begin questioning your motivation. Why was the push so aggressive? Why did Menalque think it was so important to crowd out other voices and push for a specific player? I already said it doesn’t imply that you’re Scum necessarily. But I am absolutely looking at your slot much more carefully if Osuka flips Town.

I felt like you were implying more strongly that it was very likely I was scum if osuka was town tho, but not saying it outright

Wait lemme pull the quote

[Menalque]

Menalque is either correct, Town, and will be completely obvious tomorrow. Or, he will try and sleaze his way out of a bad situation if Osuka flips Town, and we will have to make a decision as to whether he is worth listening to anymore, is Town, or is just Scum and needs to go.

This, in particular, is what bothered me

I know that later in the post you say it doesn’t necessarily make me scum but this felt a lot like a way to marginalise me in the case that I’m wrong on osuka

And now that I feel like there’s a meaningful chance I might be wrong on osuka, that’s concerning because scum!you already knows I’m coming out wrong

[Menalque]

I didn’t say it was ridiculous

I’m saying it worried me because I can absolutely see how scum!you seeing me start pushing and deciding to stay out of it during the wagon while not actively opposing it knowing that if I succeed in pushing the wagon through then (1) you get a free misguillo and (2) I’m significantly weakened and open to a push later, something that I don’t think scum!you realistically sees as viable today for instance

That’s not to say that I think you’re scum, but I had you pretty solidly as town, and you making posts that felt like you were setting up for a narrative in line with point (2) pinged me

But why do I have to stay away at all? You’re already taking the heat! You are already super aggressive towards Osuka and have posted all these reasons in thread. What Scum benefit do I derive from waiting there?

I would imagine that you maintain a greater distance from me and get to argue that you were persuaded to join ultimately as your townreads hopped on — it means you don’t have to say you agreed with my case necessarily and that you always had reservations but given that I was confident you were fairly happy I was town at the time and your other townreads joined you were okay with it

Which is definitely a way to avoid responsibility and why I’m instinctually inclined to slightly trust more people who get with me in a push from the beginning provided it’s not mindless sheeping or insanely opportunistic

[Menalque]

Okay, hang on

[Menalque]

Also, one more thing: what do you think of osuka now? Like independently and in spite of your trouble reading him

What do you think of the way he reacted to me last night?

[Menalque]

Okay, I went back and looked plus is like, very confident not only that osuka-me is TvT but also that apparently several other fights are TvT