Mini Theme 2165: MafiaSunny (Complete!)

[Noraa]

And now I just realized there was no kill so I'll have to put another wall together.

Actually I take this back. I think my solve is still likely right. No kill is strange but my solve's still prolly right.

[Noraa]

Also I'm able to confirm someone but I'm not sure if I am allowed to say cuz sometimes I think ur not supposed to say and since I'm not sure when is appropriate and when isn't, I posted this so whoever visited me, please tell me if I'm allowed to confirm. Thanks.

[Noraa]

Also I'm able to confirm someone but I'm not sure if I am allowed to say cuz sometimes I think ur not supposed to say and since I'm not sure when is appropriate and when isn't, I posted this so whoever visited me, please tell me if I'm allowed to confirm. Thanks.

um so like ignore this if the answer is no

[Noraa]

We should figure out who of duppin and Haschel should claim first as well.

Both have already hard claimed so I'm not understanding what you mean here? I think if either of them is town and lied about their role tho, they should be fessing that up right away. But other than that I don't see anything we can really do about that since they already claimed.

[Noraa]

Huh. Are we in Xylo then?

Btw what do Xylo, ylo, Lylo, and all the other similar abbreviations mean? I'm still a bit confused bout those @_@

[Noraa]

There's six people left. Idk if that's lylo.
Ohh I thought u were talking roles but yes that does make more sense.

[Noraa]

Yeah, it's xylo then.

6 alive, 1 yeet today
5 alive, 1 NK
4 alive, 2 scum 2 town

Scum win.

well fuck.

[Noraa]

Does anyone agree or disagree with my wall case?
I spent a long time on it and I think my scum team guess is most likely correct.

[Noraa]

But vp its Ylo. If the lurker is town, aren't we fucked?

[Noraa]

I’m kinda curious about something
Btw I’d prefer duppin claim his action first

care to elaborate? If not a Gamma/Duppin scum team, can you say what u think the scum team is(I ask this way cuz I doubt u would admit to gamma/duppin if that was the real solve but in case ur town I would like to hear ur guess solve)?

[Noraa]

*who

[Noraa]

actually theres no real reason for me not to claim my result first since noraa already seems to have claimed VP visited her

no. Vp and Ythan are both roles that visit at night. I did not claim vp visited me.

[Noraa]

actually theres no real reason for me not to claim my result first since noraa already seems to have claimed VP visited her

For clarification, your claim is that you targeted Noraa?

yes i targeted noraa and got motion detected

This is impossible. Vanilla townies have no night actions. Duppin in confscum now. I'll have to ISO dive to see if I can find some interesting stuff in duppin and Reck's isos.

[Noraa]

actually theres no real reason for me not to claim my result first since noraa already seems to have claimed VP visited her

no. Vp and Ythan are both roles that visit at night. I did not claim vp visited me.

by saying you could confirm someone as town you seemed to imply that as the case. if ythan gave you a mask that doesnt really confirm him as town

nonetheless point still stands; you confirmed someone visited you meaning my result doesnt matter

wdym your result does not matter? You can only detect me performing actions but that is impossible bc I'm vanilla.

[Noraa]

Or is motion detector also influenced by actions performed on me?

[Noraa]

actually theres no real reason for me not to claim my result first since noraa already seems to have claimed VP visited her

no. Vp and Ythan are both roles that visit at night. I did not claim vp visited me.

by saying you could confirm someone as town you seemed to imply that as the case. if ythan gave you a mask that doesnt really confirm him as town

nonetheless point still stands; you confirmed someone visited you meaning my result doesnt matter

isnt mask giver a town role? so if he gave me a mask, it would technically confirm him right? Both mask giver and fn have night actions that confirm them I believe...?

[Noraa]

Or is motion detector also influenced by actions performed on me?

yes exactly, so it only confirms taht either you did something or someone visited you

I'm a little bit reluctant to believe your claim considering I had just said that I could confirm someone tho I do know that technically it's not ur fault(if u actually are town motion detector) that I claimed first :/

Im also reluctant to believe u cuz gamma/duppin is my current solve

[Noraa]

actually theres no real reason for me not to claim my result first since noraa already seems to have claimed VP visited her

no. Vp and Ythan are both roles that visit at night. I did not claim vp visited me.

by saying you could confirm someone as town you seemed to imply that as the case. if ythan gave you a mask that doesnt really confirm him as town

nonetheless point still stands; you confirmed someone visited you meaning my result doesnt matter

isnt mask giver a town role? so if he gave me a mask, it would technically confirm him right? Both mask giver and fn have night actions that confirm them I believe...?

i believe he is town because mafia roleblocker is confirmed to have visited him, but i dont think there is anything that confirms his role as town

so that was why he's confirmed? I always thought it was bc mask giver couldn't be scum aligned :/

[Noraa]

that was confusing. I felt so certain duppin was scum bc I misunderstood the role but also I still feel like a duppin/gamma solve seems most likely.
idk I need to think on this a bit and give my brain a quick cool down in some lighter content threads.
be back after the brain cool down and a quick trip to the roles wiki

[Noraa]

Heres my current opinion on the game:
One of Haschel and Duppin is scum and if I had to choose which one I thought was more scummy, I would say its Haschel.

The problem is that Im 99% sure gamma is scum and gamma is more likely scum with Duppin than Haschel since duppin "cleared" gamma

[Noraa]

"kinda sussing" is perfect for shallow distancing :/

[Noraa]

Well I'm pretty damn certain that gamma is scum rn bc duppin/haschel is basically impossible unless duppin is actually mafia goon and just making up some shit on the fly which I don't buy. Or if Reck is galaxy brain and one of the partners is Ythan. If that's the case, town is 100% losing and we can't do anything about it.

I think the most likely explanation is just that the solve is gamma + duppin/haschel. I don't think gamma/haschel is very possible tho cuz I just don't see it. They've distanced so well if they're scum and I'm struggling to see that solve.

I want to vote gamma rn but what I'm worried about is if gamma is town, then my one vote + two speedy scums vote will make town lose so I've decided that's a bad idea until I interact a bit more with both gamma and duppin.

[Noraa]

we are limming between me and haschel, you should be evaluating us.

I am curious as to why you think Gamma and haschel is impossible? Why are you of the opinion that they have "distanced so well"? I am just curious as to why you believe there is a bigger split between the two of them than let's say my slot and Gamma?

Theres definitely been a bigger split. I'll explain it later today if I remember but rn imma go out for a run with a few friends. Adios.

[Noraa]

No kill just doesn't make sense to me in general :/

[Noraa]

I'm not completely caught up cuz I skimmed some stuff after my run but Gamma's reaction to me Fosing him definitely reconfirms my thought that he is scum. Duppin/Haschel isnt very likely and I think everyone knows that. And if both gamma and I were town, we would be sussing each other really hard rn. I am hands down very convinced Gamma is scum but I don't see that townie confidence in Gamma. And truthfully speaking, I'm not the confident type. Im very indecisive and shit but I am literally so convinced gamma is scum. But I don't see any townie anger or townie anything rn. I just feel like in the super rare case that both gamma and I are town, gammas reaction would not be the way it is rn...

The vibe is just off. It could just be the difference in personality/playstyle but the vibe seriously feels off to me.

[Noraa]

the tone is just very ... idk how to describe it but it just doesn't feel townie :/

[Noraa]

Ok Im still not caught up and have some other stuff I gotta do tonight but here's my reply to the core of duppins argument.
We are almost 100% certain their is one scum in {duppin, haschel} and one in {noraa, gamma} because we are all sold that {vp, ythan} is clear
You say limming in {duppin, haschel} is better but I disagree bc
1) both pools are guaranteed a scum because Noraa/Gamma and Duppin/Haschel are shitsolves and everyone knows these are impossible. If anyone believes in one of these, do explain cuz I don't buy it.
2) we just limmed a doctor. limming another power role(or the possibility cuz we dk preflip) is a terrible idea considering it'll likely live til tmrw as long as we kill of scum!gamma

[Noraa]

If we kill off scum!gamma, the remaining scum, either haschel or duppin will not kill the other otherwise they will die immediately so we will get one more night result from that pr and we can decide after the gamma lim, after some ISO hunting, with one more night action from that pr, who is scum in {duppin, haschel}.

[Noraa]

Gtg for a bit but I saw duppin Fosed me a bit and said the solve was Haschel/Noraa which is interesting considering I pushed a Gamma/Duppin solve just a few posts prior to that but I'll take a look at that and reply later.

Ftr out of duppin and haschel, I think haschel is scum
but knowing that gamma is the partner, I feel duppin is more likely than haschel.
So in general, haschel is the scum in {duppin, haschel}
but partner wise, duppin/gamma fits more imo

I'll go into more detail later

[Noraa]

Ok so duppin. I am the most confident in a scum!gamma possibility. When briefly thinking about who the partner could be, my answer was duppin. I don't remember exactly what happened bit by bit throughout the entire course of this game but I remembered that recently you had "cleared" gamma by saying you targeted him two days in a row. I remembered this interaction cuz I found it weird at the time that 1) you chose to target gamma two days in a row and 2) that you thought no action 2 days in a row 100% cleared them. There was a lot of interaction between you and gamma with all the "u claim first please" and I felt that was a great way for partners to distance-by calling each other out(in a way) Between Gamma and Haschel, all I can really remember is maybe them being on the same wagon a few times but like ... that's it. The interactions are so few that I feel they aren't the solve otherwise rn it would seem very obvious it was them.

[Noraa]

And Noraa please understand that if you are town then it is very important you evaluate this world because if we end up limming Haschel today and he flips scum, then it clears me as town so do you think I as town would be more likely to believe in the Gamma+Haschel world when Gamma sided with me over Haschel or the Noraa+Haschel world when you tried to push the idea that Gamma/Haschel could never be together. If you are town then you really need to figure out why you do not believe they can be together.

What side of this argument I agree with doesn't decide my alignment. for all I know, you could be scum trying to manipulate me rn and honestly, I'm pretty convinced your adding fuel to the fire and making everyone confused so that your partner gamma doesn't die. Gamma siding with u over haschel. I could see that as gamma bussing haschel to pocket you later to push you tomorrow and win the game. So, ig if I buy a duppin town, gamma/haschel is the solve.

duppin town I buy more than haschel town.
but as I've said, there's been more interactions between gamma and duppin than gamma and haschel which makes me think its more likely duppin is scum. Cuz scums don't distance that well normally..

You said gamma pushed you day 2 or something. I don't see how that rules out a duppin/gamma solve at all. Bussing is a thing and the fact that it was a vanity wagon at the time that wasn't all that likely to go thru anyways bc of the chkflip mislim doesn't really help me rule that out. Plus Dr. Pepper was in ur slot at the time and he was a full on lurker. Even if the scums I'm assuming gamma and reck just wanted to full on get him limmed for towncred, I would not at all be surprised.

[Noraa]

Between Gamma and Haschel, all I can really remember is maybe them being on the same wagon a few times but like ... that's it. The interactions are so few that I feel they aren't the solve otherwise rn it would seem very obvious it was them.

Huh? So you are excluding them because they don't have much interaction? I would think that makes them MORE likely

wait why?

[Noraa]

idk from my experience specifically, scums tend to overthink and end up interacting at least a fair amount to not raise suspicion. I feel like 100% avoidance which is what I see from haschel and gamma is kinda ... weird. And considering both are like players with quite some experience, its a lil hard to believe they would avoid each other that obviously :/

[Noraa]

duppin and haschel both fit well with gamma some way or another and I don't buy duppin/haschel which is why I push a gamma lim today.
plus, as I've said, duppin and haschel will both live til tmrw bc whichever is scum will not kill the other off at night otherwise they die tomorrow and lose the game.
so, if we wait til tmrw, we have more time to iso, one more night action from our pr in {duppin, haschel}, and we are well off for tomorrow where we basically have a 50-50 chance in choosing who is scum in those two.

[Noraa]

Awfully quiet Haschel.

I was thinking this as well but also like if he was scum, I feel like he would start setting me up as limbait at this point so gamma can win after he dies today and i get dragged down with him.

Yeah I'm overthinking everything rn but there's just so many possibilities that my mind has blown up atm @_@

[Noraa]

I never said gamma/haschel is impossible. I just feel like gamma/duppin seems more likely. but my problem is that I buy duppin town more than haschel town individually. but when gamma comes into play, I think ur more likely. so I've just gone in circles with this logic cuz I can't fucking tell which of {duppin, haschel} is town. this is why I've been saying gamma lim is towns safest bet today.

[Noraa]

duppin stop twisting my words. Im not replying to most of the above posts bc ur twisting my words. Idc if u don't agree with my logic. Point out flaws don't twist my words around and create some dang flaws.

[Noraa]

Ur greatly frustrating me rn cuz I don't see what's wrong with my solve. I just feel like scum is trying to anger me rn as this is basically the only time this game that I've actually articulated my reads well, or at least I believe I have tried to make it understandable. And I personally think its very reasonable and there is no reason for me to think otherwise.

[Noraa]

I think gamma has worked just as hard for the majority of the game but its limlo and I figured I needed to step up my game so I thought about the game quite a bit while the thread was locked cuz otherwise my perfect 100% town win rate gonna disappear just like ~poof~ ;(

All jokes aside, gamma is scum. I don't buy duppin/haschel as I've stated multiple times so gamma 100% must be scum and the fact that gamma's responses to my Foses were nothing close to townie made me extra sus.

[Noraa]

If gamma was town(this means duppin/haschel is the solve), he would immediately OMGUS me bc from his perspective it would look like scum!Noraa is getting a mislim on him. Cuz I'm pretty sure? that gamma also agrees that duppin/haschel isnt the solve. Idk but I feel like if I was in town!gamma's position(assuming the slot is town which btw I DO NOT believe is true), I would not stay silent and just let everyone sus me. In fact, I'd be very very mad if I was getting sussed like this as town and write a huge huge wall case on why the scum isnt me. I just feel like the reaction we r getting from gamma rn r not townie at all :/

[Noraa]

Gamma's reaction is just confirming to me that gamma is scum and I think my vote rn is *spiritually* parked there for today. I am much much more confident in a gamma lim than any other lim regardless of what either duppin or haschel says.

[Noraa]

I understand why if duppin was town, he would push a haschel lim just like I am pushing a gamma lim so confidently(at this is +townpoints for duppin cuz his reaction feels really similar to mine in this situation) however haschel seems to at least be *trying*. Gamma seems to be scum that's just given up and isnt even trying anymore and that just reads bad.

[Noraa]

Reck jumped on me multiple times for ... imo bad reasons but I'm obviously biased since it's me that we are talking about rn. Then Reck abruptly dropped me out of his SRs. At the time, I had felt like he was trying to set me up if he was scum but didn't think too much bc I, personally felt like Reck had some really townie moments and was probably actually town even tho there were some strange unexplainable things. Now that I think about it knowing Reck is scum, it absolutely was an attempt to get me killed later in the game.

[Noraa]

The random SRs on me that popped up whenever were strange to begin with and then the abrupt dropping of all of them was very strange too....

[Noraa]

Duppin having a view similar to mine is towny but ur saying legit the exact. same. thing. I've. been. saying

[Noraa]

Us thinking alike is definitely town indicative for u in my opinion but dude don't use my exact damn logic straight against me. not cool. >:(

it give me the heebie-jeebies that ur thoughts r this similar.

[Noraa]

I did not clear them. ur twisting my words again

[Noraa]

I told u that my logic that u r more town than haschel but u r more likely with gamma drove me insane. why tf is this scum indicative?

[Noraa]

Woah its not like ur whole lil spiel sounds 1)exactly like me and 2)makes sense to less people than mine currently

[Noraa]

urs is entirely from ur pov as well. Under these standards ur scum. U can't call me out for doing something u do. And I don't understand. Am I expected to think from someone else's perspective?

[Noraa]

Why is that an issue? I don't see any links between the two and they have almost zero interaction

[Noraa]

I did not clear them. I just said gamma is the safest lim today.

[Noraa]

hardly interacted = distancing last I checked...

[Noraa]

Why is that an issue? I don't see any links between the two and they have almost zero interaction

It is an issue because if you are town then I know for a fact the read is wrong (unless some weird stuff with one of the confirmed being towns or only a 2 man team) plus the biggest issue is probably that you did not provide a reason.
You only just provided an explanation recently, not initially and that explanation is kind of the opposite of distancing in terms of the words general meaning in mafia.

yesterday I said I would provide an explanation later and a few posts after that u were like Noraa can't justify anything when I literally said I would do it later and now ur upsetti that my justification came today. I don't understand what's up with this. I have my reasons and my logic. Them not being the same as urs doesn't mean I'm scum literally I don't understand what ur doing rn if ur town. The more I interact, the more I feel like ur scum.

[Noraa]

I am not sure this discussion is really useful though. But if you are town then we can talk about this post game if you want. If others disagree they can obviously chime in, but I stand by my belief that there is no logical reason to believe that they can not be together and you forming that read based on them having no interaction is a dangerous approach.

but yes i think ill stop this topic for now because i dont think its that important right now

finally something I agree with. we can talk post game.

[Noraa]

I just walked in the door at home. I'll do this once I can settle down.

When did I get so busy.

No prob. I didn't want to assume your work schedule.


On a separate note, Noraa, we should look at Haschel's night actions and see if he said anything that wouldn't automatically be clear from being scum. I think that entire N1 fiasco could be figured out by the scum team and faked as a voyeur

I actually to be absolutely honest, have not looked very carefully there so ig its a good idea to take a look there. But honestly I could see too many scenarios where the fake town pr purposefully did something that they figured someone would read into too much and flip on the other person etc etc. Idk I've had one hell of a time determining would is lying in {duppin, haschel} cuz really I think it could lean either way and I wouldn't be all that surprised. This is why I want to stick to limming gamma today cuz im confident that one's scum.

If gamma was town(this means duppin/haschel is the solve), he would immediately OMGUS me bc from his perspective it would look like scum!Noraa is getting a mislim on him. Cuz I'm pretty sure? that gamma also agrees that duppin/haschel isnt the solve. Idk but I feel like if I was in town!gamma's position(assuming the slot is town which btw I DO NOT believe is true), I would not stay silent and just let everyone sus me. In fact, I'd be very very mad if I was getting sussed like this as town and write a huge huge wall case on why the scum isnt me. I just feel like the reaction we r getting from gamma rn r not townie at all :/

Except I’m not sure which 1v1 is better to lim in rn. If I thought me vs. you was I would be pushing you, but imo duppin vs. Haschel seems like the better choice, because I at least have a mechanical reasoning there instead of just what amount to a he-said she-said.

if gamma is town, he would immediately say im scum bc he's following my logic but he's not calling me scum. I just don't understand. scum!gamma should at least put up a bit of a fight before letting me just sus tf out of them .... right? Idk still this reply is just so not towny that idk what to say about it :/

I told u that my logic that u r more town than haschel but u r more likely with gamma drove me insane. why tf is this scum indicative?

because from my point of view you are claiming
a) that you are 100% sure Gamma is scum
b) that Gamma and Haschel are not scumbuddies

this means whether intentional or not that the team you are pushing is me and Gamma - which is perfectly reasonable in itself, however it is the fact that you stated that you could not see Gamma and Haschel being together that it is issue. The issue is not that you think me and Gamma are more likely to be together due to my claim

Where/how did Noraa say this, because it’s a pretty solid point for it being Noraa/Haschel, Noraa would be trying to lim me but also trying to avoid putting herself in a position to need to bus without looking like she’s defending her buddy.

....come again? this post made zero sense to me. someone explain it to me cuz I really am not getting it.

VOTE: Haschel
I don’t have time to sit and waste away while trying to figure things out to the finest detail. I think voyeur is a more scum role than MD in this setup. I can explain why later possibly, but I stand by that pretty firmly

im sorry but just .... wtf seriously WTF. Im not even sure what else to say at this point. I just cannot at this point see a solve that doesn't have gamma. Duppin/haschel just completely disintegrated. I cannot see a town!gamma. I seriously cannot. His replies don't even *attempt* to be towny. I just I don't even know anymore. Im feeling like it might be TSTBS but like duppin/haschel is still pretty impossible imo :/

Yeah my vote's parked on gamma.

[Noraa]

spiritually that is

[Noraa]

will certainly hammer either one of them if the opportunity arises. I

You cheeky bastard

Did haschel hammer every single wagon this game? :O

[Noraa]

I realize that this whole first day of day 4 has basically just been me being like limgammalimgammalimgammalimgammalimgammalimgammalimgammalimgammalimgamma

what does everyone else think about my read? I still think gamma is our safest bet today and honestly would be fine with ending the day early considering my level of confidence in this solve. Nothing gamma has said has made me really reconsider. Rather, they just made me more confident in my read. Duppin/Haschel have both gone back and forth a few times today and I really think I cannot vote either with confidence and so im not willing to vote there.

[Noraa]

is it a good plan? I don't think we can go wrong limming gamma today.
cuz the only way gamma isnt scum is if 1) reck is galaxy brain and its ythan and one of {duppin, haschel} or 2) somehow duppin/haschel fooled us all

[Noraa]

i agree with the sentiment that Gamma looks slightly worse than noraa after these posts - but I am still not voting on either one.

solve me and haschel today and noraa and gamma tomorrow

........why

[Noraa]

The problem is that his opinion sounds exactly like mine. Like EXACTLY. If basically feels word for word copy pasted. I want to say that's town indicative cuz its exactly how I'm thinking but I'm also feeling like he just took my idea and stated the exact same thing from his perspective to get towncred :/

[Noraa]

*It

[Noraa]

There are some scenarios I want to talk through today, but I might vote by day's end if I have time to get through all my stuff. Ythan, if you have more to add later, I'd like to hear it. Still not quite sure where you are settling on everything

vp? can I get a followup on this?

[Noraa]

rl > mafia is what I always say
take your time. no one's really talking here anyways

[Noraa]

why tf is drawing attention to a fucking confirmed fn at the top of our priority lists when its literally Lylo?

[Noraa]

Vp is conftown. Even if he was being scummy, no one should give a damn cuz its lylo and no one in their right mind is gonna lim a dang conftown.

[Noraa]

what is juror???

[Noraa]

Oh I didnt think about that from gammas perspective but yeah that makes sense now.

[Noraa]

I thought he was trying to get a vp lim and I was like wtf has this world come to.

[Noraa]

Gamma, if I remember correctly, sheeped duppin's solve of Noraa/Haschel :/

...which honestly duppins solve still feels OMGUSy to me but then like the argument that Haschel almost cleared reck is pretty damn convincing. Haschel and gamma have almost no interaction tho and that's a lil ... :/

[Noraa]

Spoiler:

Second thing I want to address today is Haschel's voyeur claim. Here are his night actions:

N1: Targeted Reck (bus driver incident, I'll get into this)
N2: Targeted VP
N3: Targeted UT
N4: Targeted Noraa

Ok, so here is the problem with Haschel. Little of the information he provided was not said in thread already (I'm pretty sure), or wouldn't be known by the scum team. CAVEAT: THIS DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MAKE HIM SCUM.

But it also means he is not necessarily town.

N1, if Reck and Haschel were scum buddies, Haschel would have bee able to figure out in the scum PT why he got hit by my FN and Ythan's mask N1 because Ythan softclaimed before Haschel when Reck was outted. This is kind of a complex timeline, which I can break down further if needed. But Reck and Haschel are both really smart players. I fully expect they could have figured this out based on Ythan and me both nodding that Reck seemed suspicious.

N2 - Haschel says he targeted me and no one visited me. This is slightly unconfirmed at the time he claims this, but he also knows I already targeted Reck N1 and Haschel N2 since he received my FN confirmation two nights in a row. (FREAKING HILARIOUS IF I TARGETED TWO SCUM). The odds that I wouldn't have claimed more info if I had it were low at this point in the game (massclaim). I actually assume scum had most of the PRs figured out by the time Haschel claimed, so this is mostly knowable.

N3- Saying you targeted UT on the night of the kill is exceptionally safe from a scum perspective....and it actually doesn't even make that much sense from a town perspective? What could be learned by voyeuring the guy who was very likely to die?

N4 - Claims after duppin, so this was known already and a chance to counterclaim a missing action. The wrinkle here is maybe he wasn't intending to counterclaim duppin? Haschel did not know I targeted Noraa (unless he is a scum watcher actually, which would also make sense). I can't fully remove this one from a possible town Haschel column.



Open to hearing thoughts on this, and I should probably do the same for duppin's claims. There could be some nugget in their that proves MD claim is true or not true.

Haschel says I was targeted by a miscellaneous action after I ask in the thread if I can reveal someone visited me. Ig that is fairly meh but directly countering duppin was a bold move if he is scum cuz duppin is definitely TRed more...

Looking at duppin's night actions:

n1: ythan - motion detected
n2: gamma - no motion
n3: gamma - no motion
n4: noraa - motion detected

Duppin claims no motion from gamma well before gamma claims. N1 & N4 were knowable in thread and could be faked. If gamma was town and duppin was scum, that was a risky claim. Gamma could have been some type of soft PR that moves, or he could have been visited one of those nights by Ythan or me. This doesn't exclude a duppin-gamma scum team.

This is a funny quote from duppin's claim:

I suppose i might as well just claim as i am not sure sitting on my claim really matters. I also don't really think it matters whether me or gamma claims first at this point because if he is scum then he should be able to conclude what my read on him is related to i think

i am a motion detector:

n1: ythan - motion detected
n2: gamma - no motion
n3: gamma - no motion

so initially thought gamma was more likely to be town for not doing anything n2 but after him not doing anything n3 either I feel pretty confident about him being town actually.
I don't want to go too wifom on this, but in my opinion i just think it seems logical for mafia to use gamma as the kill after reck flipped assuming one of skies and noora is the other mafia given they were obvious tpr targets.

the only plausibile possibility i can really see if haschel is scum and they used him to do the kill instead i guess, but yeah only possible teammate i can really see for Gamma is haschel but I honestly just think Gamma is town

Using haschel for the kills actually does make sense after he performed that hammer D1, especially if he is a goon.

I agree with this for the most part but I wanted to say that duppin's claim is one of the big reasons I believe in a duppin/gamma solve

I think what i will say VP is that I feel you are giving noraa townpass a bit too easy, i get the impression that you have not played with her before and thus are giving her a newb pass but she isn't a bad scum player actually.
we are in mylo so her pushing out the only possible worlds she can doesn't really mean anything especially not if the team is just haschel + noraa. I will gladly admit I am not looking that much after the second partner right now, I believe both are possible and I do believe noraa has been slightly more town than Gamma today but I do not believe she has been as town as you seem to believe for us to lim outside me and Haschel

"she isnt a bad scum player"
dude come again? I have a 0% win rate as scum and a 100% win rate as town. your stats r wrong. very wrong.

[Noraa]

to me her first post came across as her slightly defending haschel without wanting to commit too hard to it and then after he counterclaimed it she tried to push the idea we should lim gamma instead which is exactly what i wouldve expected her to do if she was partners with haschel

on the other hand i definitely also agree that it also makes sense to push this from a town perspective, but there is just a tad too much that concerns me about her that i trust her enough to lim outside

first post of the day I pushed a gamma lim.

[Noraa]

anyway i think i have said all i wanted to for today. I want to lim Haschel, I believe it is the best lim and the mechanical correct.
if you and ythan have such a strong townread on noraa then you should just do what you think is correct

VOTE: Haschel

im worried both scum are on haschel rn :/

[Noraa]

I think this day is going badly. Someones at E-1 that I am not confident is scum.
I could be swayed to believe a haschel/gamma solve but gamma is the safest lim today and I am currently 100% sure gamma is scum

[Noraa]

VP what i will say is that behaviour towards haschel concerns me a lot, you could read her doggos game if you want to and perhaps you understand my concern.

anyway i have really said all i wanted to noraa, i think you have played a more townie day than gamma but i am not convinced you are town, so I am voting on someone I know is scum

you say im more townie than gamma. then why not vote gamma bc that's the safest lim today and the consensus is that gamma lim is the safest currently. Yes if ur town, ur 100% sure haschel is scum but I can't tell which of u is scum because of my circular logic that I've explained a few times now.

[Noraa]

Haschel says I was targeted by a miscellaneous action after I ask in the thread if I can reveal someone visited me. Ig that is fairly meh but directly countering duppin was a bold move if he is scum cuz duppin is definitely TRed more...

That's not a bold move at all though? Counterclaiming today and going for a 50-50 is a great scum move in Xylo.

why?

[Noraa]

Why does that worry you?
If we’re both scum there’s no chance of a quickhammer, right?

that means one town leaning that way and we have a mislim

[Noraa]

Since everyone is dropping votes, I want to make my stance crystal clear as well. VOTE: Gamma

ig it was very clear since a long time ago but im formalizing my strong strong strong SR with a vote. I just thought about something and I think the scum team is actually gamma/haschel. I've flip flopped a lot about who gammas partner is. Im sorry. But the reason is that town!gamma's logical vote today is me but he is instead sheeping duppin's SR on haschel. I think this is scum bussing and pocketing in preparation for a win tomorrow.

[Noraa]

I agree with this for the most part but I wanted to say that duppin's claim is one of the big reasons I believe in a duppin/gamma solve

That seems highly risky though, doesn't it? It definitely made a connection between them that everyone noticed.

this is wifomy but people would normally think that so I actually thought this could be scum big brain moves

[Noraa]

Either way, I've decided I like the other solve more.

[Noraa]

That might flip back but idk im somewhat sold on haschel/gamma :/

[Noraa]

I've thought about what town!gamma would do so many times with so many different possibilities ... none of which are what he is currently doing. Im 100000000000% sold on gamma scum. There is no doubt left in my mind on this whatsoever. Literally none zero nada nulch.

[Noraa]

I've thought about what town!gamma would do so many times with so many different possibilities ... none of which are what he is currently doing. Im 100000000000% sold on gamma scum. There is no doubt left in my mind on this whatsoever. Literally none zero nada nulch.

Why would you have to even think about it? Once Haschel and duppin started counterclaiming each other it became clear 1 was between us.

no it could be smart scum play

[Noraa]

Haschel sheeps my vote. Gamma sheeps cup-in's vote. Its a perfect scum team

[Noraa]

*duppins

[Noraa]

What duppin said is absolutely correct tho. It all depends on whether you buy a Noraa town or a Duppin town more.

[Noraa]

In the end it boils down to that.

[Noraa]

But that means the setup is
FN
Tracker
Doctor
2shot bus driver
Mask vendor
5 VTs
vs. scum RB and presumably scum MD and voyeur, one possibly being a fakeclaim

That seems bit unbalanced imo, what with scum having 1 to 2 investigatives and a RB

if duppin/haschel was the solve, I would assume one of them is goon lying

[Noraa]

Lol I was having fun in this game until just now

im sorry ;(

it must be tough having to decide knowing that ur one click away from destroying town. I sincerely hope we get scum!gamma today bc my opinion on haschel/duppin has wavered too much for me to be anywhere near confident limming there and honestly I'd be really stressed limming there today.

[Noraa]

Im still a lil worried duppin/gamma is the solve which is why im not confident in a haschel lim but then I could also see a town!duppin pushing scum!haschel hard rn.

[Noraa]

I think I will just stay silent for a bit bc my stubborn ass won't compromise on a wagon besides gamma bc that's the one that im certain is scum. I'm being a stubborn ass and duppin(if town) is pretty dissatisfied with it. Either way, if duppin is town, he'll have to convince me tomorrow since my SR on haschel still isnt that strong that im certain I would vote there tmrw.

[Noraa]

Wait actually I'll stop pushing my wagon for a bit. Vp who do u think is scum in duppin/haschel?

[Noraa]

I lied. Cuz I really wanna ask this other question as well.
Is duppin/gamma more plausible than haschel/gamma?

[Noraa]

Are you more confident in gamma scum or haschel scum?

[Noraa]

I have a feeling both are scum so we're stressing over nothing rn but im also kinda worried that only gamma is scum out of haschel and gamma

[Noraa]

You have ythan

[Noraa]

And I've also been actively trying to solve as well.

[Noraa]

I'm not scum. Idk what else I can say about this bc I can't prove it without showing my role pm.

If you believe in town!Noraa, we will be able to lim scum!gamma today.
If you don't, then we have to pray duppin is town :/

[Noraa]

Those are the only ways today can end and that's that

[Noraa]

Either gamma dies or Haschel dies
One is confscum
the other is somewhere close

From my perspective everything is crystal clear about gamma but I can understand why its hard for you.

[Noraa]

honestly, if that's the case, y'all can laugh at me post game for being so paranoid but my stubborn ass wants gamma bc im 100% sold there.

[Noraa]

Then reck is galaxy brain and they deserve the damn win

[Noraa]

but also if ythan is scum, at most one go haschel and gamma is his buddy so he could just hammer rn and win

[Noraa]

*at most one out of

[Noraa]

he would've hammered if he was scum so he's not scum 100%

[Noraa]

Ah shit that's what I kept misunderstanding. Im stupid
I kept thinking it was 3 and was like hmmmm what if scum hammers?

[Noraa]

I feel like duppin tried to cue me in earlier cuz I kept saying that two scums with quick fingers could hammer but he was like no

[Noraa]

I feel like duppin tried to cue me in earlier cuz I kept saying that two scums with quick fingers could hammer but he was like no

Does that mean anything?

I didnt understand with the way his post was worded lel

[Noraa]

Rip I missed that

[Noraa]

Btw what's MCFLY?
first thing I think of is .... McDonalds fly O_o

[Noraa]

Gamma is the safer yet but I mean if both of them r scum which seems to be the solve everyones coming to, ig there's not too big a difference.

[Noraa]

what im worried about is if duppin is scum with gamma not haschel

[Noraa]

I still want gamma but if haschel flips scum, I will be pleasantly surprised(slightly)

[Noraa]

good idea

[Noraa]

that makes sense, but like, I also think you hit a key vein of why they might overlook that as well: if the sole reason they decided to do it was to avoid giving a solid indication of who might be right/wrong, and/or if they thought they could sway the person who they would have otherwise killed. I would bet dollars to donuts (I don't understand why that's a phrase tbh) that you would have been the kill if one happened, VPB. Who stands to gain in the scenarios I suggested? Noraa. This is where the effort has an actual scum logic to it. I imagine Noraa tried to put everything she had into one Hail Mary push to make everyone doubt themselves on her. And it worked on me, for a time. I was entertaining thoughts that were honestly rather blasphemous that I'd rather not say them without cause.

Ok hold up.
1) this is all a wash bc there's too many possibilities
but
2) Vp had a huge SR on me throughout the entire game until yesterday. If I was scum, knowing that I overthink everything, I would've just killed him bc I was worried he would go back to SRing me. The thing is Vp keeps saying that no-kill means more possible mislims but I disagree cuz unless the scums r absolute idiot heads, they would've killed either vp or ythan since those two are conftown and towns not gonna lim them today no matter what. The mislim possibilities are the exact same actually but considering that VP sussed me for the majority of the game, scum!me would want him dead to prevent that from happening. I mean yes he continues to TR me but if I was scum, last night I definitely would've overthought and, not knowing what would happen today, kill him.
Then again this is self meta in a situation im not in so its not necessarily correct and it could also be subconsciously tweaked after gamma and duppins constant attacks against me.

The fact Noraa doesn't know that is a huge townslip

no no its really not, especially not when both me and gamma have already pointed it out earlier in the day. on the contrary it seems to indicate that she either hasnt read the post aimed at her, that she forgot or that she is faking it. it simply isn't alignment indicative and i know you claimed earlier that you didn't, but i simply can't see how this is not a newb pass. I refuse to believe you would have called it a townslip if Gamma had said it.

also i can obviously only link to her finished scum games, but i really believe you ought to take a look at her doggos game.
i believe this might be her first game so her play is definitely a bit more newb like but after i read it i found it concerning and i actually think all of her latest posts are making me lean more towards her being scum.

this is her iso in that game, she is scum with shelly:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12084642

notice how her read on shelly progresses throughout the game, when shelly is pushed on she tries to townclear her by dismissing/trying to discredit the pusher. I feel she did the exact same here, she seemed to suggest haschel became more townie after i voted on him and that she was scared that both scum had voted on haschel etc, when i have been making it very clear all day that i would always vote for haschel and that she should be able to understand that from my point of view he is always scum (which is also why i dont think it is town at all for haschel to vote on anyone but me especially not when the team could easily be me and noraa since our slots have not pushed on each other at all and i pushed for a skies wagon over noraa yesterday, our interactions today shouldnt really affect his read that much given its mylo, so i think thats a scumtell).
she also does the whole "i am so confused" thing quite a lot. feel free to compare that iso with her town games

now id like to say this does not necessarily mean she is scum, but i think there is quite a big possibility that she.
So solve me and Haschel instead please.

Ok duppin can you stop going around and telling people im scum cuz my behavior is something like in doggos?
1) no matter wtf my role pm says, I am still me and if there are no similarities between scum!me and town!me, there'd be a big problem
2) that was my very first game of mafia ever. can you not? Obviously I pulled the newb card hard there and spammed the fuck cuz scum!me is hyperactive throughout the entire game. When im more confused, indecisive, lost, and less present its always town!me. You need to stop SRing me everywhere for my first game. Not cool.

[Noraa]

You being so protective of gamma isnt exactly making me TR u rn.

[Noraa]

you will find similarities in every game if you try hard enough. You are just using my playstyle against me.
ur logic is "when she's scum she defends somebody. rn she's defending somebody therefore she's scum"
wtf

[Noraa]

Ur sticking to gamma and gamma is scum. Ur either pocketed scum or gammas scum buddy. Im leaning scum buddy again cuz of ur constant sheeping and agreeing. Too much partner equity between u and gamma.

[Noraa]

also that clearly wasnt my logic, but i dont need to explain any of this to you really. i just need ythan and vp to actually evaluate me and haschel

Ythan, VP. Evaluate {gamma, Noraa} today bc 1) its easier to evaluate and its clear who is scum
and 2) we get a whole night of peace and quiet to calm down and think about haschel and duppin

Haschel's partner equity with Reck, after I rethought is actually quite high. Gamma and duppin partner equity is also really high. I can't tell. If its really just haschel and gamma, I'm stressing over nothing but either way, its clear gamma is the common factor. Can we just make a decision now. I think its clear why gamma is the best lim today and duppins whole case and defending of gamma is just not rubbing me right even tho yesterday I had just accepted haschel/gamma. Idk just, lets just go with the safer lim. Theres nothing else to say here honestly. I think everyone just needs a thread lock to sit down and think hard about duppin and haschel.

[Noraa]

all this wishy washy nonsense is not at all helping me solve {haschel, duppin}

[Noraa]

As much as normally I want the days extended to have more thinking time, I don't think we have a need for that rn. It's very clear gamma is scum and I think for the most part, town agrees on that. Haschel and duppin on the other hand, no one really agrees completely and those that think gamma/haschel acknowledge gamma/duppin might be right and vice versa.

[Noraa]

Haschel, it's kind of weird you don't want to yeet the confirmed scum from your perspective.

I do; I just acknowledge that it's a coinflip for the rest of you. From my perspective Duppin is 100% scum and Gamma is probably 85%, but from everyone else's then Duppin is 50%, I am 50%, and Gamma is still 85%.

Incidentally Duppin trying to shift things onto Noraa using a single game's meta is scummy as fuck. Not only is any cherrypicked meta argument worthless to other players, but using a small sample size is disingenuous.

These percentages are complete bunk lol

the 50-50 for haschel/duppin is a bit ... wonky but its understandable considering he's not gonna want to admit his percentage is higher. I'd say its more like duppin is 75% and haschel is 25% in {duppin, haschel}. In {noraa, gamma} it's 90% noraa and 10% gamma. then again we're talking about me and im 1000% sure gamma is scum so thats definitely biased on my end :/

[Noraa]

Either way I urge a confscum lim today.
If duppin is town, then he is also urging a confscum lim today.
This is the best case scenario where no matter what we choose, we catch scum.
Worse case scenario is that gamma is scum and haschel isnt.

[Noraa]

Ythan VP y'all been quiet since us four got into a tussle. thoughts?

[Noraa]

Haschel last day you called Noraa scum, your behaviour today seems to suggest you have changed your mind, so could you explain your read progression?

I noticed this as well but I figured if I wanted to read into it I could see it as scum trying to sway me by giving me a town pass or just a townie thats determined I am not scum.

[Noraa]

Ythan VP y'all been quiet since us four got into a tussle. thoughts?

I'll vote when I vote. I really don't need to hear more from any of you. Just need to think. It's going to be a risk wherever I vote.

You're welcome to push whoever you want to push, but people repeating the same points doesn't really have any effect on my thinking. Original lines of inquiry remain welcome.

;( sorry im just tunneling at this point cuz im too sure but yeah thats not helpful to anyone. I shall instead ask game advancing questions

[Noraa]

Incidentally Duppin trying to shift things onto Noraa using a single game's meta is scummy as fuck. Not only is any cherrypicked meta argument worthless to other players, but using a small sample size is disingenuous.

that's very misleading. i can only use games she has finished for obvious reasons, the other scum game she has she replaced into a scumread slot around d2 or d3 (cant remember) which changes the dynamics a bit obviously, but she still did something similar towards her partner (her preds vote was on her partner, she unvoted for no real reason and then later had a null leaning town read on the slot for no real logical reason either).

she has also finished a towngame and you are free to read up on that as well to see what i pointed all

but the fact that you come out with this statement does actually make me feel it makes noraa slightly more town, not in the sense that associations mean anything as of right now but more so because i just feel like it could be an attempt at wanting put more shade on me in case we end up limming Gamma today and he flips scum

ur statement conflicts itself. U say im throwing shade on u for having a bad argument and that means I am more scummy(im assuming thats what u meant not more towny)

[Noraa]

Haschel last day you called Noraa scum, your behaviour today seems to suggest you have changed your mind, so could you explain your read progression?

Yesterday it looked obvious that Noraa was partners with Brightskies. This was provably false so I reevaluated, and her play today has been town.

ok but why does this sound like u copy pasted vps words? O_o

[Noraa]

So duppin ur argument itself was wrong. I dont understand why im not allowed to bring attention to it when ur just using an unreasonable argument that applies to every single one of my games but its literally impossible for me to be scum in 8 games at the same time

[Noraa]

Hm I read it wrong then ig.

[Noraa]

Also bc u did the quote weird so I thought vp had said it

[Noraa]

Gamma and Haschel voted the same on every wagon it seems.

D1: 177
D2: 723
D3: 1043
D4: 1271

Not sure that actually means anything (my own votes closely mirror them), but it seems worth noting.

Ouch partner equity.

[Noraa]

I personally think I look better in all my town games than my scum games but seeing that duppin used the exact same game against me, im not that greatly confident in this opinion anymore.

[Noraa]

if you wanna waste a hot 5 hours, you can read my only finished scumgame, Doggos.

Duppin, how do you feel about Noraa offering me the meta of her own scum game D2, unprovoked?

i mean generally id say its meaningless and for noraa i am 100% certain it is not alignment indicative

why is it not AI?

[Noraa]

Exactly then you can't use it against me

[Noraa]

Tho if you really wanted to bring that point across, I did bring up my first scum game in my second scum game and twisted my meta a bit cuz I was desperate

[Noraa]

It is absolutely town indicative for me to bring up a scum or town game of mine to prove im town when not under pressure

[Noraa]

bringing up a game in general isnt AI correct but it depends on when.

[Noraa]

but either way there's no point in self meta cuz self meta is garbage.

[Noraa]

Duppin pushing this point hard is kind of strange ig. Not too sure how to read into that as personally I just think he's throwing shade at me for no reason :/

[Noraa]

You basically just said "im biased so I dont like her so y'all should listen to me and lim haschel"

[Noraa]

I find it unfair that everything ur saying is super .... *sigh* just not helpful at all. None of what you said makes me want to evaluate in {duppin, haschel} today any more than I ever did and you are referencing one scum game and assuming that similar behavior determines my alignment.

[Noraa]

You have zero reasons for why {duppin, haschel} is where we should lim instead of {Noraa, gamma}

[Noraa]

You just say im scummy bc of *terrible* reasons so everyone should listen to you.

[Noraa]

...meta can go fuck itself

Noraa, why did you say this when you entered the game, but then pushed people to go read your completed games a couple times?

lmao I have a love-hate relationship with meta. sometimes its used against me in such bad ways I get mad cuz its just so wrong.
idk rn im in the neutral phase with it.
I went thru multiple hate and love phases.
idk it's complicated.
sometimes I hate it. sometimes I love it.

[Noraa]

sighhh

Honestly gammas play is just scummy. Idk what else to say about it. It's just plain scummy. Especially rn while we r in lylo, why is he still scum pinging me with literally every single post?

I dont even know what to say about his play at this point.

[Noraa]

I just wanna lim this slot asap. I'm just tired of this slots refusal to do literally anything to even seem remotely towny. Ik he's scum but still I expected to see him put up more of a fight against dying and leaving his scum buddy alone out in the world but I literally see none.

[Noraa]

All his play has done is made me think he's buddying duppin a ton but reading into that is just not helpful

[Noraa]

It's not just ur sigh, its all of ur posts today.

[Noraa]

Ok, so let's entertain this for a minute. Who is your best guess at the full scum team reck?

great question. i'd probably wager 2 of the unrevealeds and then one of the claimed roles just based on probability. the extra manipulator role has to be something unclaimed since everything else is at least ACTION confirmed, but not alignment confirmed

so 2 of {gamma, skies, duppin, noraa} and 1 of {ut, ythan, haschel}

out of those, gun to my head, dont think it's gamma or ut.

This might be the revealing post we needed. Put yourself in Reck's shoes here. I forced him to tell me his scum team after he got caught lying. What are the odds he puts both of his buddies in the same grouping in this post? I would think low, particularly in the bracket where he says there are 2 scum.

If true, that means Haschel is definitely scum here. My only hang up with that vote is I don't trust duppin to sort noraa and gamma tomorrow in an open minded way.

this is a very good point. I did agree that haschel and reck were more likely than duppin and reck and I still agree with that honestly. But gamma is the problem here. Gamma doesnt go that well with haschel imo....

[Noraa]

you said my logic was bad on that tho so im not sure if repeating it helps

[Noraa]

I thought they had no interaction so they probably weren't scum together

[Noraa]

I still feel like the level of interaction is concerning. I mean I hear ur argument and it makes sense but idk I still feel like the partner equity isnt insanely there

[Noraa]

you said my logic was bad on that tho so im not sure if repeating it helps

i assume this was in response to me, but the logic i was talking about was regarding associations.

i would just like to know what it is that made you think i was more likely to be town over haschel at one point

it was to vp

[Noraa]

Ok, so let's entertain this for a minute. Who is your best guess at the full scum team reck?

great question. i'd probably wager 2 of the unrevealeds and then one of the claimed roles just based on probability. the extra manipulator role has to be something unclaimed since everything else is at least ACTION confirmed, but not alignment confirmed

so 2 of {gamma, skies, duppin, noraa} and 1 of {ut, ythan, haschel}

out of those, gun to my head, dont think it's gamma or ut.

This might be the revealing post we needed. Put yourself in Reck's shoes here. I forced him to tell me his scum team after he got caught lying. What are the odds he puts both of his buddies in the same grouping in this post? I would think low, particularly in the bracket where he says there are 2 scum.

If true, that means Haschel is definitely scum here. My only hang up with that vote is I don't trust duppin to sort noraa and gamma tomorrow in an open minded way.

VP don't forget my role

Hmm, true.

no his role does nothing tomorrow.

[Noraa]

If we lim haschel today and haschel flips red, tmrw I predict there will be a no kill. Gamma isnt going to kill someone bc no matter who duppin checks, he'll be able to tell who did the kill.
If gamma kills and duppin sees I had no action, he'll know its gamma. If gamma kills and duppin checks gamma, he'll obviously know.

[Noraa]

no roles help anyone rn

[Noraa]

duppin using his role to convince everyone to solve him first is just not cool and the logic is flawed anyways.

[Noraa]

Ik im being a stubborn ass. But duppins also being a stubborn ass(I dont mean this offensively btw) and he's using my exact same logic.

[Noraa]

noraa you do realise that if they do not kill anyone we can lim both you and gamma right

Gammas not gonna kill unless he's stupid but also what?

[Noraa]

VP you believe in duppin town more than noraa town?

[Noraa]

why?

[Noraa]

U sure about this?

[Noraa]

But what if ur wrong? my town win rate is still 100%

[Noraa]

lemme go ask my magic 8 ball

[Noraa]

8 ball said yes.
VOTE: Haschel

[Noraa]

Please vp. Please please be right

[Noraa]

In VP I trust. I sincerely hope you were right

[Noraa]

this hammer literally gives me the heebeegeebees cuz if that was town, I literally just fucked my town win rate over

[Noraa]

nuuu its mine

[Noraa]

Duppin would u lie to me?

[Noraa]

T^T the more I stay here the more worried I am.
T^T breathing exercises work please

[Noraa]

ok we can win this game if duppin isnt twilight trolling rn after a scum win.

[Noraa]

we'll have a no kill since gamma won't kill with duppin there

[Noraa]

then we kill gamma and game over

[Noraa]

im feeling a bit better about this decision. duppin u wouldn't twilight troll right?

[Noraa]

haschel r u twilight trolling?

[Noraa]

someones got to be twilight trolling rn. who is it?

[Noraa]

I feel like you wouldn't twilight troll this hard knowing that im literally panicking cuz I did the hammer

[Noraa]

Ok I shall relax and go eat some watermelon. adiosss hopefully mod shows the flip by the time im back.

[Noraa]

*high fives*
T^T I still got the heebeejeebees tho
I think those r permanently staying until mod shows me the big flip ;(

[Noraa]

someone should tell mod to hurry up cuz noraabear is still worried. but I mean worst case scenario haschel flips green and then I blame vp. best case scenario we kill gamma tomorrow and win the game

[Noraa]

got my watermelon. am I allowed to call mod here from disc?

[Noraa]

Ythan and VP both shouldn't use their actions tonight so that duppin can get accurate results in the rare case that gamma slips and kills someone

[Noraa]

assuming that there is tonight which im ... idk somewhat convinced in since vp seems pretty fucking convinced

[Noraa]

Thank you VP but mostly thank you to my magic 8 ball that came to the rescue at the very last moment while I was being lead to the dark side. Honestly, I'm glad you were right about haschel cuz I was really uncertain which of duppin and haschel was scum. In fact, I actually leaned duppin scum more for the most part of yesterday. I want to say oml my reads have been shit this round. I thought tn was scum and out of the three people I found town, 2 of them were scum. Anyways that was Noraas quick upsetti spaghetti rant.

Back to the inportant stuff, if its duppin/haschel, haschel is big brain for calling a guilty on duppin but I still have a really hard time believing a duppin/haschel solve. I think gamma is scum and if there is no kill, that will prove gamma is scum bc he is too scared to kill with duppin there. As duppin said, if gamma no kills, town has two elims and I've thought about this over the night and have come to this conclusion : if gamma isnt scum, we are screwed cuz that means haschel was big brain and faked a guilty on duppin. The problem is that I believe duppin is motion detector cuz of his night action results on gamma. I won't go into too much detail(unless asked) here but it logically does not make sense and his actions have to be real. That would mean if scum, the scum team would have a Roleblocker, MD, and voyeur :/

I mean I agree there was a huge pr mess with one really really strong pr(doctor) but I dont think this strong a scum team is reasonable. It's just a big no from me and doesnt make much sense. I think town would have to have like a vig or something if the scum team was 3 full fledged prs here.

If gamma isnt scum, I worry lots bc ik pretty well that out of {duppin, noraa} the most reasonable and obvious kill the day after tomorrow would be me bc of the guilty haschel faked on duppin that somewhat clears him. I will depend on the fact that Haschel is in fact not galaxy brain and did not fake the guilty on a partner not to mention too much scum power is also strange. Anyways I think scum is gamma. If scum is duppin, the scums literally deserve to win for such big brain moves but I do not believe it is duppin. But then also ig if duppin was scum, he wouldn't no-kill. He would just kill vp or ythan. Or maybe he would no-kill. Idk. Im not sure honestly.

Anyways my solve is
Reck- mafia roleblocker
+
Haschel- mafia voyeur
+
Gamma- mafia goon

If its wrong, literally shoot me and good job duppin that was one hell of a scumgame. But im very confident it's right.
I admit its strange gamma pushed the haschel wagon but I think its bc he was trying to pocket duppin and bus Haschel for towncred to get a Noraa lim the next day and win the game. There's no other explanation for why he would not sus me(if he was town he would sus me) and instead follow duppin onto the haschel wagon. I think if gamma was online, he would've unvoted before I could hammer and im glad he didnt cuz I would've had one hell of a time solving duppin and haschel "today" had we limmed gamma "yesterday"

Big thank you to my magic 8 ball. literally indecisive people like me need them sometimes when I really cannot decide. I shot my shot and it was right.

One other thing I found really really interesting was that Haschel fucking twilight trolled and scared the shit out of me. That was what I thought upon rereading UNTIL I read it again and I realized there were much more sinister things hiding in that post. He literally said the scum team was gamma and duppin. That's actually one of the most indirect and sneaky ways I've ever seen a scum throw shade at me. He sure wanted his partner to win. So much that he threw big shade at me by saying the scum team was the only other two conftowns. Idk if I overthought but I feel that post definitely had bad intentions and I wouldn't be surprised if after the scum pt was released I saw a blurb from gamma like, "hey haschel before ya die do me a favor and say the scum team is Me and duppin? Thanks bro."

Anyways thats enough speculation while the thread is closed.

Summary of fat wall:

Kill last scum gamma.
Win game.

[Noraa]

NVM dont read the wall. I didn't realize killing duppin was an option yesterday while I was writing this.

[Noraa]

I figured duppin was the kill. It was that or face two more days in play. I'll let gamma say his piece before I weigh in.

I literally looked like a fool yesterday and u didn't bother telling me. a bit salty about that cuz yesterday just looks dumb now.

[Noraa]

That wall and the way she reacted to the kill look very forced, she’s trying to force a fake townslip here. That’s all I can muster today.

your only chance to win the game is to push a scum!Noraa stance. you best start being more aggressive with it tho I dont think you can win this game for reck and haschel. if u do, rip this'll be a big slap to my face post game but I'm fairly confident town is winning this game bc I think ythan and vp believe a town!Noraa. I'm still a bit overly confident from yesterdays town win(my other game)

ythan, vp I think you both might benefit from reading some isos? I've played pretty fence sitty and indecisive but I do think that its fairly obvious I am the town out of {noraa, gamma}
Ig its harder for u guys since u cant really see role pms and uk rn this is a bracket of {vanilla town, mafia goon} which are fairly similar but I'm not really sure what else to say at this point in time cuz there's not much more I can say about this. I think ISOs are ur guys' best bet.

[Noraa]

^thats all I have to say as well as
DIE MAFIA SCUM
VOTE: Gamma

3 votes to lim so my vote does no harm to the game state. this is caught scum. there's not much more for me to say on this topic. now I shall be quiet while I wait for a result to the ythan-vp thinking bubble answer(unless gamma starts throwing shade at me, then I'll be loud).

[Noraa]

what should I do rn ... I'm a bit bored with gamma over there literally not even making an effort to win for reck and haschel.

Spoiler:

[Noraa]

Im legitimately bored but yeah I'll stop with that otherwise it'll make it hard for town to decide

[Noraa]

Thanks! You guys didn't do bad at all. I was in the SRs for almost the entirety of the game.

[Noraa]

Cabd did uk I was scum all along?

[Noraa]

and also thank you! this is my very first scum win :O

[Noraa]

Vp accept a huggie from Noraa for pocketing hard?

[Noraa]

Thank you mod for hosting!!! Also I'm really interested in seeing the dead thread

[Noraa]

I wasn’t even apathetic I just couldn’t fucking compete with master of the wall Noraa over there
When someone is being townread for such a stupid reason as “they’re being more active than the other person” how the actual fuck am I supposed to fight that?

Sorry

[Noraa]

um it was bc I was being a whiny baby.
in other words, I fucked reck over.