Smoke-Filled Antechamber [Endgame]

[fferyllt]

Do you remember one of my very first scum wins when I dreamed of walking?

~shudder~

[fferyllt]

To the members of the deathy:

If indeed Taylor is not the traitor where would each of you point towards the second option?

Jake. Very long paranoia-fueled outside chance of Tammy, but as I have said in the neighborhood, I don't think I'm living in a world where Tammy or Syr are scum. With Tammy it comes down to how much paranoia can one brain hold. And then I think about my brain's capacity.

[fferyllt]

what did she say in the thread

When Syr called her on the crumb, she said that she set it up so that everybody in the dethy would see it, but nobody in the game thread would notice. In a spoiler she said that actually she was just joining my crumb.

Next post, she said that the crumb didn't reveal the dethy and that she thought all 5 of us were going to crumb. She also said in that post that she thought we should reveal the dethy because doing so would be low risk, low info to scum and high reward.

further down she mentioned that she didn't think Cabd would notice or get her crumb.

[fferyllt]

:/

[fferyllt]

Don't you dare wish that into being.

[fferyllt]

The only bastard I'd wish this slot on is zmuffinman~

Way to fucking traumatize a death's diner - I'd say survivor - but nobody town got out of that game alive.

[fferyllt]

Alright. I dedicate my game day to vengeance for Syryana.

[fferyllt]

it would be cool if each of the remaining dethy people went on record that the three are 100% mod-confirmed

it's been forever since I've played dethy. what does that do for the sanity solve?

It doesn't make the solve harder, unless I'm not thinking hard enough. But, Syr might have been one of the two useful sanities. Or not. We'll carry on.

it would be cool if each of the remaining dethy people went on record that the three are 100% mod-confirmed

100%

[fferyllt]

Did Syryana say anything overnight that's worth relaying?

I'll read back through it and convey. I was hyperposting overnight, so a lot of what he had to say was in response to my wild imaginings.

[fferyllt]

s_s what are your current reads?

Nahdia did you read the last 10 or so pages of Day 1?

[fferyllt]

Ffery I need three not-me names that you are wanting to be town.


That's my ask. Three. Maybe four. But three is solid.

Want to be town? Or believe to be town? And when do you need them by?

[fferyllt]

Traitors have access to the mafia PT? I am not a town traitor though. That was a joke.

Some types of traitors (not normal (anymore)) know who the scum team are. Some don't

[fferyllt]

We are told by the moderator that our neighborhood contains 4 town cops, sanity unknown, with one traitor tolecop, and the traitor was hyperlinked to the wiki definition of traitor, so she was not a goon.

Making dinner be back later

soooo... it's now a masonry?

That is indeed the case. We have an outed three man masonry and the potential for other soft clears to be running around.


I think their ability as cops is pretty much gone but hello next few night kills and safe targets for town to dance around.

That's actually quite cool, but I don't know if the membership of that hood has been posted in a place I've seen, and if it's outed that would probably be a good idea.

btw: not working on catching up for a fair bit most likely.

Is there a particular reason why you didn't read through the run-up to the elim overnight?

[fferyllt]

Ffery I need three not-me names that you are wanting to be town.


That's my ask. Three. Maybe four. But three is solid.

Want to be town? Or believe to be town? And when do you need them by?

Today if you want a xenogears level solve.

As in calendar day?

And you're asking for my 3 strongest townreads outside the dethy.

[fferyllt]

We are told by the moderator that our neighborhood contains 4 town cops, sanity unknown

So there was no guarantee that the cops are sane, insane, paranoid, and naive in some combination? Or did you just leave that out for brevity?

Iiieeeee don't think we need to answer this atm.

[fferyllt]

well based on peta's post the hood's living members are tammy, ffer, and jake. Good to know, though the only person I think was ever legitimately suspected by a good amount of people there was jake.
PEdit: I don't really catch up well if I can't post throughout the process. Personal PTs don't help either.

I'd like for you to go catch up because doing what you're doing is just repeating what's already available to know.

[fferyllt]

Ffery I need three not-me names that you are wanting to be town.


That's my ask. Three. Maybe four. But three is solid.

Want to be town? Or believe to be town? And when do you need them by?

Today if you want a xenogears level solve.

As in calendar day?

And you're asking for my 3 strongest townreads outside the dethy.

Game day today. Three that aren't me and my Ilk.

Sigh. I have theories about your ilk, but I'm not 100% certain. We may need to come up with a larger number to account for that. I can rank 'em.

I have questions for you about some of your townreads.

What did you think about the format of S_S's readslist? Does your meta include games where he copied the list of players and annotated?

Do you know if Gamma does mastina-style post-for-post catchups? Gamma made a post during that catchup that indicated he was aware an elim was close to going through, but didn't jump to realtime. Do you know if that's something that town-him does?

Where is peta for you right now?

What about Alisae?

[fferyllt]

I have no idea whats going on in this game

Start reading on page 62.

[fferyllt]

You owe me a bell-explanation, if you'd rather get that out of the way now.

I'd like to give this a little time. Way less than a gameday, but yeah a little time.

[fferyllt]

peta when you have a solid opinion on Nahdia I'd love to know what it is.

[fferyllt]

If, and only if, the dethy calibrated on me, please let me know as I need to talk about things I'd rather not.

We don't need to talk.

About that, anyway!

[fferyllt]

If there is a neighborhood that does not contain Cabd, please have a representative speak up and say so.

Thanks!

[fferyllt]

DS, when did you decide/what caused you to decide that the dethy inhabitants were right about Tayl0r?

[fferyllt]

three man masonry

We shall be known as the Ya-Ya sisterhood of the traveling pants in memory of our dearly departed.

[fferyllt]

Bell, you seemed really different on day 1. More chaotic. Harder to understand.

[fferyllt]

VOTE: Bell
Why?

VOTE: Bell
Why?

Because something something Sword of Damocles something something.

Over whose head did the sword dangle?

[fferyllt]

Midwaybears.

Why should have midwaybear's head been uneasy?

[fferyllt]

Gonna step away for now and let the confirmed town alter ego do her thing. Meta-date about Diamond and Gamma
tonight/tomorrow?

Whenever's good for you.

[fferyllt]

Have you ever played with me when i’ve been pressured?

You came under some pressure in hunterxhunterx, though not as much as my hydra did.

[fferyllt]

Midwaybears.

Why should have midwaybear's head been uneasy?

Because of what Alisae said which was a threat.

Alisae was threatening Jake.

You voted Alisae.

Midway bear voted you.

And then you made the damocles reference.

I don't get why midway's head should rest uneasy beneath the crown.

[fferyllt]

You owe me a bell-explanation, if you'd rather get that out of the way now.

I'd like to give this a little time. Way less than a gameday, but yeah a little time.

The only reason Bell didn't get fed last night is due to your doorway-looming, creep.

:/

You will probably not be surprised how much angsting I did over bell during the long dark teatime of my soul. At least you'll get to read most of it one of these days.

[fferyllt]

Didn’t I have a melt down in that game.

I could understand your thought process in that game. I had you in my townpile pretty quickly based off the interactions between you and Remilia-bork mostly.

I've been going nuts trying to understand your thought process in this game. I can't map it to either alignment. I've kinda written the disconnnect off as a rough couple of real life weeks, but it scares me to do that.

[fferyllt]

Who?

And why would Alisae's take on Jake be a threat to midwaybear?

I’m talking about midwaybear and jake you goof lol.

Wow, you two blended together. That’s not great.

AH HA!

[fferyllt]

I felt like in a sane world that had to be the explanation, but how the hell am I supposed tell if this is a sane world and I'm not playing checkers in an nth dimensional chess game?

[fferyllt]

Bell, why did you go off to nap late day one as the game thread was hitting peak wtfery?

[fferyllt]

@midwaybear. No it isn’t.

Could one of the more experienced people tell me how traitors work in regards to awareness? Typically or all the time?

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Traitor

These are a few of the ways that Traitor has been implemented.

The Traitor may or may not know who is in the Mafia to begin with. If not, Traitor is basically intended to act like a "bad Townie" - whereas "good Townies" try to find scum, "bad Townies" hinder the Town from finding the scum without necessarily knowing who they are. However, it is considerably more common for the Traitor to know who the scum are.
On occasion the Traitor is only told who one of the scum is.

The Traitor may give negative results to Cops (that is, they show up like Townies would). This hearkens back to the earliest interpretation of the Traitor, called the Mafia Spy.
The Mafia Spy shows up as Town to Cops, but the Mafia can "call them back" at any time to make them full members of the Mafia at any time. (Obviously, the Mafia would know that the Mafia Spy exists.)

Some moderators allow for Mafia teams to kill their Traitors with the factional kill. Other times, the Traitor is immune to kills from their Mafia (in which case if the Mafia tries to kill them there is no kill that Night). Still other times, if the Mafia attempts to kill their Traitor the Traitor is instead recruited into the Mafia, allowing it to talk to the rest of the faction and perform the factional kill. All of these have been seen regularly.

If the Mafia can potentially kill their Traitor, they are sometimes told that a Traitor exists in the game. This forces the scum to hunt for their own Traitor in hopes of learning who NOT to kill at Night.

Some Traitors, particularly those that cannot be recruited into the main faction, are compensated by being granted extra powers. For instance, the Mafia Traitor may also be the team's Roleblocker.

Some Traitors lose if the main Mafia group is wiped out, even if they are still alive.

Some Traitors inherit the ability to nightkill if the rest of the scum are dead.

Normal Guidelines

A Traitor is considered Normal on mafiascum.net, as long as it:

is Mafia-aligned
knows the identities of all of the Mafia team
identity is not known by the Mafia team, although they should know a Traitor exists
cannot be recruited to join the rest of the Mafia team, and (unless Bulletproof) is killed if shot
is endgamed if all other Mafia are dead
gives a "guilty" result to Cops, an "innocent" result to Gunsmiths, and a "Traitor" result to Role Cops

If you want a Traitor that cannot be killed by its team, make it a Bulletproof Traitor. (A Traitor that investigates as though they were town is not Normal, because the Godfather role is not Normal.) Roles like this should return full names (e.g. Bulletproof Traitor) to a Role Cop investigating them.

As a Traitor is Mafia-aligned, it counts towards the Mafia's win condition. For example, in the situation of 1 Goon, 1 Traitor and 2 Townies, the game ends in a Mafia win.

There's more on the wiki page.

When Syr asked Fakegod about what kind of traitor we had in the dethy Fakegod told him that Syr does not know what kind of traitor.

We can theorycraft that Tayl0r knew her mafia crew but it kinda has to be taken with a grain of salt.

[fferyllt]

Because I was exhausted.

How are you feeling today?

[fferyllt]

It hurts that if she didn’t know she probably thought I was scum.

Thinking back to the grandparent post?

[fferyllt]

Bell, that Sword of Damocles thing was an example of a few parts of the thread where I just couldn't track where you head was at on day 1. And like I said, I couldn't map that stuff as indicative of either alignment.

I think I just want reset the dial and give you some space and see how this game day goes for a while. I'll probably poke at stuff, though, as I would anyone.

[fferyllt]

Gonna step away for now and let the confirmed town alter ego do her thing. Meta-date about Diamond and Gamma
tonight/tomorrow?

Whenever's good for you.

Which one first?

Getting delivery, so I'm here.

You have s_s as a high tier townread so I'd like to start there.

[fferyllt]

Okay... it's gonna be awkward because I don't want to burn that tell.

Get your charades game face on?

I don't need tells burned I don't think.

Mostly I want to know if this readslist format is familiar from your meta-ing?

Alisae mild town lean but will probably be sortable later
Bell mild town lean
Cabd mild town lean
DS mild scum lean

FakeGod lockscum

ffery mild town lean
wait Gamma's in this game? his first post is towny though. rest of ISO is null
Jake is unreadable
midwaybear null but probably sortable later
Nahdia null and I hope things get less stressful soon
petapan mild town lean
Pooky is honestly probably my strongest townread, but I don't have to be happy about it
I will not attempt to read Cakez on D1. I have a slight town lean on Cakez. By the law of me being utterly unable to read Cakez, this means he is scum. Gottem
Syryana mild town lean
Tammy null
Tayl0r null via ISO but also lol
Bulge has 19 posts, no wonder I can't remember anything they've done.

The kinds of lists I noticed while metaing games didn't start with the mod's player list. They consisted of his townreads/scumreads and didn't include nulls. The ones I looked at were smaller games. All minis I think.

[fferyllt]

I think that the level of EFFORT put into those reads is consistent with the strides I've come to expect.

Town S_S brings a jovial nature to his play that I don't think he can emulate quite as well as scum, even now.

I don't know that I'm confident assigning alignment indicative points either direction for the layout being a copy paste. Maaaaaaybe a townpoint or two on the scale of coupons worth 1/1000th of a cent.

Any other unclassified info you want to share?

[fferyllt]

In general, I have no desire to go there today, but I absolutely want him to put in the effort he is capable of now.

Without the shiny new tell it's probably not possible for me to be as confident as you, and he is amongst my townreads. The confidence and energy with which he went after Tayl0r took me a little aback, comparing that to how other players reacted, but from what I've observed in metaing he gets pretty energetic when he's interrogating/setup-solving/etc.

[fferyllt]

I think that the level of EFFORT put into those reads is consistent with the strides I've come to expect.

Town S_S brings a jovial nature to his play that I don't think he can emulate quite as well as scum, even now.

I don't know that I'm confident assigning alignment indicative points either direction for the layout being a copy paste. Maaaaaaybe a townpoint or two on the scale of coupons worth 1/1000th of a cent.

Any other unclassified info you want to share?

S_S is so town (For the classified meta reasons) that my heart wishes I could place him on the same tier as you.

Sadly, we live in reality. SO I'll have to settle for matching your doorway performance a la bell.

I'm not going after him!

I'm wanting to cement this read as well as you have.

Also, S_S please chime in at will!

[fferyllt]

I don't wanna.

I didn't plan for this game to be so damn efforty and srsbsns.

ok fine.

[fferyllt]

I don't wanna.

I didn't plan for this game to be so damn efforty and srsbsns.

ok fine.

I mean you don't gotta, you can vote there instead if you so desire. No pressure, but you've gotta be like assassin on steroids if that's the case.

So I scanned 1828 and was like whoa look at this iso! It's so town! And then I checked the flips and was like wtf why was he ganked on day 1???

And then I was like, this 2016 iso is NOTHING like the 2020 game I'm seeing. Is this meta-trajectory??

And then I come back and see this post, and I'm like...is Cabd inviting me to vote his scumread? or is he telling me that it's going to be one hell of a slog if I try to elim his townread?

I think it's the first, but please clarify while I skim another iso.

[fferyllt]

I don't wanna.

I didn't plan for this game to be so damn efforty and srsbsns.

ok fine.

I mean you don't gotta, you can vote there instead if you so desire. No pressure, but you've gotta be like assassin on steroids if that's the case.

So I scanned 1828 and was like whoa look at this iso! It's so town! And then I checked the flips and was like wtf why was he ganked on day 1???

And then I was like, this 2016 iso is NOTHING like the 2020 game I'm seeing. Is this meta-trajectory??

And then I come back and see this post, and I'm like...is Cabd inviting me to vote his scumread? or is he telling me that it's going to be one hell of a slog if I try to elim his townread?

I think it's the first, but please clarify while I skim another iso.

Yes.

Don't torture me.

...that avatar

[fferyllt]

let's kill cabd
VOTE: cabd

I already pocketed the cohort, Cassandra.

Code Geas game has some of the irritability about shitposting (but not ~interesting~ offtopic) but also much more fluidity.

[fferyllt]

Well, let me look at the scumgames

Also does you dream still burn bright?

[fferyllt]

Well, let me look at the scumgames

Also does you dream still burn bright?

I held myself back from opening there in deference to your wishes.
And your whole "Hi literally confirmed town sitting in this doorway shoo" thing.

And that's where you'd be right now if I weren't being an inconvenient doorstop?

[fferyllt]

Well, let me look at the scumgames

Also does you dream still burn bright?

I held myself back from opening there in deference to your wishes.
And your whole "Hi literally confirmed town sitting in this doorway shoo" thing.

And that's where you'd be right now if I weren't being an inconvenient doorstop?

No. We'd not be having the conversation at all, actually.

Pizza crust.

Dreams and reasons.

Or time.

[fferyllt]

I uh... I think there might not be that many more hoods, given the lack of response to you so far, ffery.

So it would seem.

2020 is closer to 2018 than 2016.

The hydra with Shiro is not much like Aeronaut's game. Did you find meta similarities?

[fferyllt]

Vote: Diamond Sentinel

Other players of interest that Syr and I agreed need scrutiny, fire, something: Bell*, Nahdia, Alisae

*Strong concern of Syr's. He said of my efforts to get into Bell's head overnight that I was on drugs.

Thoughts on Nahdia and Alisae?

[fferyllt]

Tammy expressed player concerns too, and she's here to pursue her concerns, though probably not tonight.

[fferyllt]

I uh... I think there might not be that many more hoods, given the lack of response to you so far, ffery.

is it time for us to solve your hood too?

It would have been if Taylor's launch into space hadn't been the imposter.

Discuss, please.

[fferyllt]

Also, S_S I'd like to hear what you want to say about your reads list approaches.

(And I'm going to pull Syrs thoughts from the PT when the game hits a lull)

[fferyllt]

I uh... I think there might not be that many more hoods, given the lack of response to you so far, ffery.

is it time for us to solve your hood too?

It would have been if Taylor's launch into space hadn't been the imposter.

Discuss, please.

I can, but it will have MAJOR negative utility if done so.

Are you okay with that?

If you can explain what Tayl0rs launch into space does for the solving urgency of your hood without major negative utility I'd like to hear that, but I can live.

Just know that I'm getting uncomfortable about ~stuff~.

[fferyllt]

The Scummonings: Day 2

[fferyllt]

I love playing with you SO MUCH Pooky. I'm glad I returned while you're active again.

[fferyllt]

SD=DS?

[fferyllt]

Cabd you missed a scum game.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=64037

unvote:

[fferyllt]

I uh... I think there might not be that many more hoods, given the lack of response to you so far, ffery.

is it time for us to solve your hood too?

It would have been if Taylor's launch into space hadn't been the imposter.

Discuss, please.

I can, but it will have MAJOR negative utility if done so.

Are you okay with that?

If you can explain what Tayl0rs launch into space does for the solving urgency of your hood without major negative utility I'd like to hear that, but I can live.

Just know that I'm getting uncomfortable about ~stuff~.

You know what?

I don't want us to have to live in a universe where we game solve today while you distrust me.

I'm just gonna put out what I've got.

I'm a miller that compulsive neighborize-millerizes. I pick my target at day's start. I REALLY hoped your masonry picked up on the day one attempts to convey this to you and syr. That's why I didn't want you checking me or my ilk at first. That said, knowing there's a miller in the game, well, two of them, anyways, now.. That means the deathy can calibrate and come into day three with sanity mostly solved.

We caught that you were a miller, but eventually thought you were crumbing loverizer instead of neighborizer. I thought there might be something reflexive in your ability.

We can come into day 3 like that, or we can target a scumread and see whose investigations change over n1. Less chance of calibration, non-zero chance of actionable result.

This will help with theorizing, though!

[fferyllt]

This is probably sub optimal play

, but having 5 clears out of 15 alive is better than 3 clears out of 15 alive for you.

One could argue that outing the dethy day 1 was suboptimal, but Tayl0r's in-game play was not something we could let continue.

[fferyllt]

Here are the posts I was referring to when I said I don't like them.

Something_Smart is feeling a lot more absent than usual.

Am I though

I think this is within normal range for how absent I am.

I will always hate self-meta posting. I also dislike that sort of coy dodging of the question for the first post.

Do you have any reads yet?

no

there is way too much discussion that is orthogonal to anything I want to talk about.

Do you thread avoid as scum?

Sometimes.

Dodging questions (although admittedly the last part isn't a huge deal to me. Dodging questions about meta aren't AI)

What would you like to talk about?

I mean, if I knew, I'd be talking about it :/

The meta discussions are alienating. People seem to be by and large going with the flow and not really doing anything that stands out. And like I'm sure there IS readable content in there but I don't have the skill nor the patience to extract it.

Not a big deal, but I'm just going down Cakez's list here.

"I'm town and don't want to effort"

FTFY

I hate this. Snarky and unhelpful posts are a sign of scum in a lot of situations I've found.

Specifically, I don't want to effort when I know it won't accomplish anything worthwhile.

This. Just... no. Absolutely not. Even if what's going on around you is complete bunk and not remotely helpful, you can still contribute. This is a sign of a scum that is looking for any excuse they have to avoid the game.

How can you assume this

Because when I force reads they come out hot garbage. Speaking from experience.

See above. Even if your reads are trash, you make them so that you have

some

footing. (and also so that you can eventually get better at the game). If you're not going to do anything yourself, why would you bother playing?

But this is someone who's played as long as I have, so I doubt the sincerity of this decently.

Are you thinking to kinda sit out day 1?

Ideally no. I just need to find something to engage with.

If there's anything you want to hear my opinion on, I'll definitely try to see what I can come up with (though I can't guarantee it won't be "that's NAI").

This was posted 1500 posts in. There was more than enough to engage with.

He engaged pretty damn hard after my dethy post.

This is not an elim that will happen today. Probably ever.

Anyone else you want to float?

[fferyllt]

So... I am genuinely sorry but today is the high effort day.

You have a shelf life of "one game day" with almost 100% certainty.

I know. I crazy-posted in the neighborhood n1 because I didn't expect to be alive today. That was part of the calculus.

[fferyllt]

List of Three start:

petapan, sircakez, midwaybear

Thoughts?

[fferyllt]

pooky kinda belongs there, but I'm not sure I can make a convincing argument for it.

[fferyllt]

I also really liked Alisae's content that I got to read this morning!

[fferyllt]

Vote pool in that case is nahdia, nahdia, and nahdia for me today.



And bell, but you won't let me have any.

I'm just asking for a few calendar days on Bell.

Who would you vote that's in my list?

I'm not opposed to DS btw. Just got a little weird about you not including the DS scumgame you modded, but I probably already mentioned that game here. It was his second game on site. He had some good mentors in the scum PT and I'm sure that helped, as did the huge town slapfest.

[fferyllt]

ffery why not SS?
What is list of three?

I'm townreading s_s by my own crude meta and my in-this-game analysis. Cabd says he has a 100% meta tell he'll burn if I make him, but I'm not going to make him. I'm pretty sure there's a built-in 5+ count nay-vote there.

[fferyllt]

ffery why not SS?
What is list of three?

That's what Cabd asked for. We're gonna see if a Xenogears style gamesolve works here, given how many confirmed town we have.

Cabd do you remember whose ISO would have the list in that game?

[fferyllt]

Vote pool in that case is nahdia, nahdia, and nahdia for me today.



And bell, but you won't let me have any.

I'm just asking for a few calendar days on Bell.

Who would you vote that's in my list?

I'm not opposed to DS btw. Just got a little weird about you not including the DS scumgame you modded, but I probably already mentioned that game here. It was his second game on site. He had some good mentors in the scum PT and I'm sure that helped, as did the huge town slapfest.

I didn't grab every game, i went and grabbed a few scum games and then stopped. Anything 2016 and earlier wasn't as relevant to me.

One momentary flash of paranoia. You know who you're playing with here. They're going to happen, but I'll mostly right myself. I'm likely dead before you get your 5 page essay.

[fferyllt]

List of Three start:

petapan, sircakez, midwaybear

Thoughts?

If these three are town, then...


Remaining unknowns: 7 Mis-elims left until miselim=lose assuming three remaining scum:

Day 2: 16 alive, 3 mafia vs 13 town <--You are here
Day 3: 14 alive, 3 mafia vs 11 town
Day 4, 12 alive, 3 mafia vs 9 town
Day 5, 10 alive, 3 mafia vs 7 town
Day 6, 8 alive, 3 mafia vs 5 town ---<miselim and lose.


So we have four "misburns" to spend out of an elim pool of 7, that contains 3 mafia.

That's a xenogears level solve...

{Tammy, Jake}
{s_s, petapan, sircakez, midwaybear}
{alisae,......pooky}

Do you agree with all of them? They don't have to all be in the solve, I guess.

[fferyllt]

Like... I'm not sure how heavily the odds of a deathy d1 yeet and masonry was weighed when setup designing.... But it seems fairly breaking.

we're both in the top 2, so.

My views on how to use a dethy-within-a-larger-game were forged in the Death's Diner shitshow. Having an obv-traitor keep obv-traitoring made the call pretty easy.

[fferyllt]

ffery why not SS?
What is list of three?

I'm townreading s_s by my own crude meta and my in-this-game analysis. Cabd says he has a 100% meta tell he'll burn if I make him, but I'm not going to make him. I'm pretty sure there's a built-in 5+ count nay-vote there.

mmm ok I will sheep you guys on this for now

ffery why not SS?
What is list of three?

That's what Cabd asked for. We're gonna see if a Xenogears style gamesolve works here, given how many confirmed town we have.

Cabd do you remember whose ISO would have the list in that game?

ok so basically everyone picks three townies?

changing my vote due to said sheeping
VOTE: Alisae

If you disagree with my picks I really want to hear about it. Cabd's pushing it on me to make the call, but my playstyle is all about consensus-building, so.

[fferyllt]

I guess this is sort of the Alter Ego wins the d0 vote alternate reality in some ways!

[fferyllt]

Wow so miller masons might really be a thing this game.

If i'd thrown it at the Yaya, yeah. I didn't because that would interfere pretty badly with their attempts to sanity-check.

When did you have to put in your compulsive action on d1?

[fferyllt]

Haven't posted a damn thing in the last hour-plus.

It's all happening inside my head.

[fferyllt]

Tempted to ask you to neighborize one of us, but it's a nice-to-have from my perspective.

[fferyllt]

Hmm. Actually upon consideration. We need one more name.

How do you feel about Alisae? Particularly about eir convo with Tammy during the wee hours today?

[fferyllt]

I'm a little less sanguine about Gamma, but would be willing to discuss. Still not entirely comfortable about that mastina-style catchup while all sorts of shit was going on in real time.

[fferyllt]

ffery why not SS?
What is list of three?

I'm townreading s_s by my own crude meta and my in-this-game analysis. Cabd says he has a 100% meta tell he'll burn if I make him, but I'm not going to make him. I'm pretty sure there's a built-in 5+ count nay-vote there.

mmm ok I will sheep you guys on this for now

ffery why not SS?
What is list of three?

That's what Cabd asked for. We're gonna see if a Xenogears style gamesolve works here, given how many confirmed town we have.

Cabd do you remember whose ISO would have the list in that game?

ok so basically everyone picks three townies?

changing my vote due to said sheeping
VOTE: Alisae

If you disagree with my picks I really want to hear about it. Cabd's pushing it on me to make the call, but my playstyle is all about consensus-building, so.

I think your picks are ok.

I'd like to understand your Alisae read better than I do right now.

[fferyllt]

I'm a little less sanguine about Gamma, but would be willing to discuss. Still not entirely comfortable about that mastina-style catchup while all sorts of shit was going on in real time.

you may want to reference his recently completed scumgame

fuckin homework.

[fferyllt]

Ffery, let me know when you've got the largest fainting couch in your hosuehold ready.

This is IMPORTANT.

brb buying a bigger fainting couch and a longer string of pearls.

[fferyllt]

Short shelf life anyway. If it's gonna be that bad I won't wish it on Tammy. Or Jake.

[fferyllt]

Cabdy you can't tease like this

Pooky, I'd like to introduce you to my best f(r)iend, Cabd.

[fferyllt]

I am an actual Mason.

Not psuedo-mason, but literal "You are a Mason" masons.

My role as it is written, I am lovers, millers, and masons, with my flavor-sibling.

Independently of that, I am a novice vig. I have pizza ready to hand out.

Deep dish, as in the Varsoon hydra town vig that got day one eliminated in that one large normal.

I'll at most get the one shot off, but it'll keep us on odds when I die and my little bro goes with me.

Something_Smart will be along shortly to put your doubts to rest.

I WAS RIGHT!!!!

[fferyllt]

So no neighborhood. I am disappoint.

[fferyllt]

You were negatory on my other question about that game.

Thought someone else would geddit?

[fferyllt]

Also, do you have ANY IDEA how badly you freaked Tammy out with the 167 reference, given we knew there was a traitor in the dethy?

Thanks f(r)iend.

[fferyllt]

wtf kind of game has potentially 6 masons?

[fferyllt]

Or zero town protectives!

yeah.

[fferyllt]

Why was now the time to reveal?

[fferyllt]

The lover aspect sets us back a name.

I didn't want any paranoia lurking

Let's talk about another name.

[fferyllt]

Lady alter ego, time for our double elim.

I'm still waiting for my flipped avatar.

[fferyllt]

Nahdia?

For town?

That's spicy.

[fferyllt]

Congrats. You can push someone and then get even

more

reasons for pushing someone.

I felt like you completely discounted and in fact misinterpreted, deliberately or not, that I said Jake's reaction to pressure in the dethy neighborhood looked town.

It kinda blew my mind that, if you believed us about there being a dethy, you'd consider the players who had out-of-thread knowledge of Tayl04 and Jake to be worse at gauging their relative likelihoods of being the traitor than you were.

[fferyllt]

Other players asked about what had transpired in the dethy, but that's not where your mind went. Instead it was "gestures broadly" about the data in the game thread.

[fferyllt]

I dunno. maybe that should be a crazy-ass townpoint.

[fferyllt]

I'm assuming that my role is designed to be a counter to the deathy and that the death he was assumed to never be claimed day one nor solved day one but I suppose we can hear that from the mod himself in post game

In maybe 90% of universes where there's a dethy and a miller-masonry, it doesn't play out with both those entities townreading each other because of mad metaphor communications.

[fferyllt]

funfact I consider myself to be part of the 2013 cohort.

[fferyllt]

I will say that regardless of post count if I were scum this game I would be incredibly heartbroken having a second masonry pop in after the first one had already kicked me in the dick

I feel like this is true iff they were counting on me as a mis-exe. I'm sure they weren't counting on you as one.

Then they were dismissing my day 3 paranoid meltdown as a joke, assuming I were alive to have one.

[fferyllt]

Nahdia?

Do you feel like Nahdia makes sense with DS-scum? Think there should be an iftown/ifscum clause for pizza, whoever gets elimed today?

[fferyllt]

Man I didn't need to see that pre-edit

[fferyllt]

ffery shut up and melt down with me.

fucking look at my bottom town tier.

I can't decide if I'm more smug or more terrified.

[fferyllt]

If I hold back the paranoia, then there are literally 10 players I'm not willing to elim today. Out of 15.

Who was the likely elim on day 1 if we hadn't asked nicely for help making the dethy a masonry? Would it have gone Bell's direction?

peta had the second most votes after tayl0r but he wasn't under any real pressure. one of the 3 votes was tammy's rvs.

[fferyllt]

Would some kind of delayed kill, like poisoner, make sense in this flavor?

[fferyllt]

Would some kind of delayed kill, like poisoner, make sense in this flavor?

In addition to an ungated (wlel, except novice) vig?

That's a LOT of death being flung around, in a setup with multiple potential lover pairs?

I was thinking a scum-controlled extra kill (1-shot) to deal with all the confirmed town bumping into each other.

Pooky, Alisae what does your concept of the game look like given 8 confirmable town at the start?

[fferyllt]

fferyllt
Cabd
Tammy
PookyTheMagicalBear
Alisae
Syryana
Something_Smart
Jake The Wolfie

Pretty Solid Town Reads

Sir Cakez, petapan, midwaybear(?)

Elim-Pool (5 names)

Bell
Gamma Emerald
DiamondSentinel
Nahdia
The Bulge

Cabd, I thought you were crumbing midwaybear as a neighbor to some extent, and had him higher town than I really felt on my own due to that. Does he belong that high in your opinion?

[fferyllt]

As far as optimal doctoring goes...

Flip a coin, if heads go to section A, if tails go to section B:

Section A

Flip a coin again. If heads, protect Cabd. If tails, protect Something_Smart

Section B

Flip two distinct coins:
H-H: Protect fferyllt
H-T: Protect tammy
T-H: Protect Jake the Wolfie
T-T: Goto Section A instead

I think this is about as optimal as possible?

If self-protection is an option there needs to be a third path. Not asking if that is an option, but if it is, then TT could go to a mirror of A with pooky/alisae in it.

[fferyllt]

Tammy and I need to sync. Jake, too, if he's around today.

The yaya sisterhood could be yet another functional hydra.

[fferyllt]

Is it? He could be try hard scum. Nothing in his iso tells me he's town this game.

Who?

[fferyllt]

Peta.

I've read your tonight-posts and I can't follow this.

"Is it?" <<-- who were you asking? What post were you responding to?

I don't know if it's a me problem or a you problem but this disconnect keeps happening and I don't remember having this much trouble following you in prior games.

[fferyllt]

Bell

[fferyllt]

Nobody get wagons anywhere close to a hammer tonight please



I'm going the fuck to sleep. Setup spec and shit here tomorrow once the yaya's get their shit together instead of it being a morph the cat gamesolve attempt.

I think the game has benefited from us stfu-ing for a few hours.

[fferyllt]

Bulge, you seem to be scumhunting based on how players are reading you. I think that's a useful channel of info given the ease of poe-ing you. Your question to gamma is interesting. I'm curious about the answer.

Have you been able to form opinions on players outside how they're processing you?

[fferyllt]

If there's another town PR, then maybe two scum PRs.

[fferyllt]

Team salty cohort, we all gonna be around tonight to solve?

I'll be around.

[fferyllt]

Like... are you even reading the thread in full?

You crumb life, the universe and everything you're gonna wind up with a lot of orbital space junk.

[fferyllt]

back to your fainting couch; or i'll modify my claim again.

We doing shit?

Might be good for the game to continue breathing.

[fferyllt]

Tammy's still poking at stuff, but we're fairly well in agreement where she's settled things.

I think Jake's ok with what he's seen so far.

[fferyllt]

Do you want to start with where you four (hi syr ghost) settled, and then the two mini masonry groups can chime in, then?

right now one of my strong townreads is voting the other so I'm a little out of sorts.

We think Bell is strange. The strangeness has calmed down a little but he doesn't feel very present/engaged. I don't see how he moves from here into bet the farm town.

We agree that DS's scumhunting has been super shallow and at times very shaped by players asking his opinions about other players. As a town playstyle it looks ineffective.

I'm liking Nahdia's recent content a little better.

I'm still pondering Tayl0r's play and how it was considered by other players. The 2012 cohort schtick was essentially flagging the three players in the dethy who were making waves/should be elimed quickly imo.

Cakez and petapan pushed back on the characterization that we were impossible to read/interact with. Not sure that makes sense as scum interacting with their potential traitor.

[fferyllt]

Also, when does the dethy uncover the jigsaw puzzle and let the public see their progress?

All we'll ever give the day phase is guilty or inno results. Nothing more.

[fferyllt]

The words at the end of this post fry my brain. What does "I was told I don't know that" communicate? can one of the living members of the dethy help me parse what this meant?

Fakegod explicitly told Syr that we don't know what kind of traitor is in the dethy.

[fferyllt]

The real crumbs were metaphor code.

[fferyllt]

The players with 2012 join dates are all in the dethy, I think. Tayl0r was signaling the dethy members (except Jake) to her scumbuddies.

[fferyllt]

I mean hell, wheels within wheels, that are within wheels.

I was planning this whole sequence of events out from the getgo.

Muad'Dib

[fferyllt]

Nah. That was Syr doing his own codetalk.

Syr was saying that of all his occasional hydra partners in this game, the only one he could possibly be scum with was Cabd. Colin ad Sasha are the heads of the Trust Fund hydra. The rest of his occasional hydra partners in this game are in the dethy.

[fferyllt]

How the hell did that town elim a mason?

[fferyllt]

@Conftown

What do you guys think of asking the other 8 villagers to get some wagons going.
Having 2-3 wagons happening would really help me out a lot and unless all of those 8 people agree on 1 individual, no one is going to die so it should be fine.

Ideally I would like to see Nahdia, DS, or Bell wagons but up to ywall

Sounds good. If playres want to cast a wider net, that's great too.

[fferyllt]

ffery I think diamond is lieing about wanting Jake because of the deathy but that’s just my opinion

I see this 2 ways.

Jake being in the dethy increased the chance of him randomly being scum a couple points (assuming 3 non-traitor scum which is where I was at before masonpalooza happened and kinda where I'm at, still), and DS had been tunneling on him forever.

DS discounted dethy opinions about who was scum in their midst because who knows? He didn't change his vote until after tayl0r replaced out. The d1 elim was a foregone conclusion even before that. If he's scum, the level he went to potentially avoid her being elimed is pretty wild.

I see a lot of reasons to think his play is scummy. But, his play also fits a tunneled, extremely stubborn town who ignores data that doesn't fit with his current obsession. The lack of fluidity is also pretty wild.

I don't think my read ever goes strong town here. :/

[fferyllt]

I can't speak to the rest of the confirmed crew, but I've been on solo dad duty for the past few hours.

I'm also primary on call at work until Wednesday.

I imagine things will pick up this evening.

I'll be around to talk in about 15 minutes if you're off duty.

[fferyllt]

I am also here to talk about things if needed

How do you feel about Nahdia's day 2 content?

Do you feel like this is town-Gamma?

[fferyllt]

Is there anything you want me to keep in mind or are just general impressions are good enough?

General impressions, I guess. They are players I haven't played with before who have track records and other players have experience with them. I want to leverage that, rather than, or at least in addition to cold meta.

[fferyllt]

I can't speak to the rest of the confirmed crew, but I've been on solo dad duty for the past few hours.

I'm also primary on call at work until Wednesday.

I imagine things will pick up this evening.

I'll be around to talk in about 15 minutes if you're off duty.

I think my biggest surprise is how far cakes fell, and how fast.

I'm also starting to get petapan-shaped hives.

Positing scum theater?

[fferyllt]

Gamma what makes you think there is a second traitor?

[fferyllt]

yeah.

[fferyllt]

Ok fine. I'm back at the computer.

[fferyllt]

day 2 iso (recent anyway) seems devoid of scumhunting. I thought he had midwaybear as scum, but maybe not?

[fferyllt]

Bulge and Gamma are both on Cabd's "later" end of the list.

I had the impression that your Gamma read was sort of gut?

[fferyllt]

day 2 iso (recent anyway) seems devoid of scumhunting. I thought he had midwaybear as scum, but maybe not?

This is about bell?

I thought you had something super big-brain waiting for me in your masonry.

Many waffles. I don't feel like I'm ever going to be able to townread him here.

[fferyllt]

Apropos of nothing I figured out that the newbie game Knell-Bell played with scum-Tammy was one that I modded.

[fferyllt]

It is so strange having so many masons in this game. Something about not facing any potential pressure at all takes the edge off.

What are your thoughts on Midway?

[fferyllt]

Well.... I kinda hoped you had a way of talking me out of my death tunnel BEFORE I shot him in the face.

Sorry. My sleep meds had already kicked in at your 23 minute mark last night.

Rereading Day 2 again and will post thoughts.

[fferyllt]

I'm spending significantly more time trying to read people than being town read tbh. I've been inspired (corrupted) somewhat by zMuffin, this has had somewhat predictable results.

Are you trying to incorporate other aspects of zmuffin's playstyle?

[fferyllt]

he's asking questions that scum would obviously already know the answer to.

How so?

[fferyllt]

he's asking questions that scum would obviously already know the answer to.

How so?

is there reason to believe there might be a traitor and a fullscum in that group, rather than having a 4 person masonry as soon as the dethy resolves? anyone can answer but im maiy asking i guess from a 1) balance pov and 2) WWFGD

He said it had been a while but he'd played in dethy games, so he shouldn't be unaware of what a dethy is.

My thought with this comment in the light of having that knowledge was that maybe he thought we would mischaracterize the shape and structure of our neighborhood/role pms. I've played one other game that had a dethy in it, and I instantly recognized what we were from the info FG posted in the neighborhood. Bulge's later explanation that he wanted our neighborhood to have accountability resonated.

[fferyllt]

I don't have many reads right now (and maybe this will continue). I am still reading Nahdia as town, but my townread of Gamma has went away. Everyone else is null. I know this might be disappointing, but oh well.

Can you wrap words around these two reads?

[fferyllt]

PEdit: Absolutely. Just because you disagree with someone's reads does not mean that they are not legit. Legitimate reads are reads that are working towards solving the game, not sowing discord. There are many people I've had disagreeing reads with historically that I also did not for a second doubt were town, and they truly meant those reads (and there are a fair few people who's said the same thing)

Wait, you're getting me confused. What's the differences between

Merit

,

Normalize

, and

Legit

?

Functionally? Very little.
To normalize a set of reads (or a stance) would just be to grant that it is legitimate and has merit.
Merit is that it's not complete bullshit and is worth discussing.
Legitimacy is that it is meant to solve the game and not sow dissent.

was really hoping DS would give a better answer on my question about his meta on me. as it stands it was basically a dodge.

Nahdia isn't here rn, be my scheherazade~

hello hello.
bulge's content this game:

Spoiler:

• votes DS for his anger at RVS being a bit performative. i did take note of that as well!
  
• i kinda liked 1122 for some reason. it's bold.
  
• starts asking lots of mech questions to clarify the dethy traitor thing. personally i find mechspeccing to be where a scum thrives, but i cant deny the town perspective here. he's asking questions that scum would obviously already know the answer to.
  
• his early d2 is pretty defensive, though not necessarily in a bad way? it feels strange to me that bulge would be surprised to be in PoEs in a way that i almost wanna say is towny.
  
• gets much more into sorting territory by 2679. i like this post and the posts that follow. the continual followup on questions he's asked makes the sorting look genuine.
  
• i feel 2806 deep in my soul

bulge feels towny to me.

I don't have solid answers on anything. I just have gutreads that I go based off of and then try to scrap together weak justification to convince others that it isn't just a gutread.

It feels like there's a disconnect between these two posts. The first one suggests a structure and method. The second one suggests the opposite. When I read the first one, I made a mental note that I wanted to see if your iso suggests a fair amount of method in your playstyle.

[fferyllt]

Why would he super bus Taylor as scum?

Why do you assume that he knew taylor was scum? That's not how traitors work normally.

One of Tayl0r's first posts was a huge traitor crumb.

[fferyllt]

Bell, roughly what percentage of your posts are phoneposts?

[fferyllt]

Also, as a side note, it means that you're proving my first point (the two aren't contradictory by any means). Makes me chuckle there.

Your first point being?

[fferyllt]

Cabd, petapan: thoughts about trying gth?

[fferyllt]

Also, as a side note, it means that you're proving my first point (the two aren't contradictory by any means). Makes me chuckle there.

Your first point being?

My point in the first one.

Wordz it please.

[fferyllt]

Also, as a side note, it means that you're proving my first point (the two aren't contradictory by any means). Makes me chuckle there.

Your first point being?

My point in the first one.

Wordz it please.

There's a difference between an actual read and what people accept as genuine.

How did I prove that point?

[fferyllt]

Your perception that what I have is remotely worth considering. Right now my reads are sporadic and I'm really just scrounge together "evidence" to convince y'all of my gut reads, and yet you think that I have a methodology with them, apparently.

Interesting. I'm not trying to consider your reads. I'm trying to divine your mindset and motivation.

[fferyllt]

can one or more of the conftowns please tell me if this is something? or am i just wasting my time here?

am i being unreasonable here? i really dont think i am!!!

What exactly are you arguing?

ill quote the whole exchange and then try to summarize:

Spoiler: quotes snipped for relevancy/redundancy

Ooh a pagetop.

Anyways, I'm mostly just gonna go to the backline until Nahdia posts more. I can read them fairly well.

i'd really like DS to answer this question which is a response to post 275.

DS, can you elaborate a bit on you feeling like you have good insight into my alignment? How do you approach reading me in particular?

Ultimately my reads are perpetually feels based. I think that the "logic" that so often permeates this site is a facade to hide behind and try to make this game seem like it's any more than just a dartboard until someone gets flustered.

As such, I just look at people until I get a gut read on them and then I push them. You are one such person I can get a decent gut read for and feel confident about.

I was hoping for a little more than this. You called me out as someone you think you can definitely get a confidant read. That suggests you feel you have a pretty reliable meta on me. Why? What's that meta based on? You don't need to go into excruciating detail if you'd rather not list all of what you feel my tells are, but what are the general things that make me easier to get a gut read for you?

I don't have solid answers on anything. I just have gutreads that I go based off of and then try to scrap together weak justification to convince others that it isn't just a gutread.

I don't have solid answers on anything. I just have gutreads that I go based off of and then try to scrap together weak justification to convince others that it isn't just a gutread.

but you specifically called me out as someone you can read well!!!!! why!? explain yourself!

Because my gut reads are pretty accurate, especially against you. See: Soccer Spirits. (And before you point it out, yes, I was scum, but it was multiball)

so... one game. from four years ago. in which you were scum.

-snip-

in this post you point out you've changed a lot in three years. i'm still a bit baffled at 275 despite this exchange.

like, yall, to drive this point home,

this

is Soccer Spirits mafia. it is one of my first non-newbie games ever on the site: notice it starts like 3 weeks after my join date. THAT'S your basis for feeling like you can gut read me well!? for getting peeved that i wasnt posting more because you could were so certain to read me right?????????

and actually, while you were mafia in that game, you were red mafia. meaning you didn't know for sure it was multiball, though you did speculate there was 3p in the scumthread.

WAIT HOLD ON. YOU SCUMREAD ME THAT GAME.

your read on me THAT game was "nahdia is a noob that is posting a lot but it's all filler so i cant read them". and then you decided i was scum!

the overall point im driving here is that i think DS' original post, 275 is unsubstantiated filler. there is in fact no evidence DS has provided that he has any ability to read me well, so the idea that town!DS would make that post feels less likely to me.

I don't know if it's something because DS looks to me like he's smug about nth-dimensional chess level takes on what players mean, while to me it looks more like he's in the dump it all on the floor phase of pick-up-stix. Your pursuit of this is something that looks pretty town to me, though!

[fferyllt]

I kinda feel like DS needs to not be near el-lo if he's town.

[fferyllt]

I think I am also a little confbiased on these though? Which is why I'd love input from people who TR the two

How do you feel about his more recent posts?

[fferyllt]

I 100% absolutely believe that it's some stupid inside joke.

Why can't they just be lying? I do not think it is a joke at this point even if it may have been likely before.

Lying, joking. What difference is there at this point.

As for my solution to it, the FG breaking site rules was dumb, but I 100% absolutely believe that it's some stupid inside joke. There is no way in hell for Fakegod to allow 8 conf!town in his game. Literally no way.

We don't know what scum's power is so you can't judge how balanced it is

Fine. Let's get into set-up spec. FakeGod does not design set-ups around night actions. (See: Fakegod V. Antihero, mainly, but a couple others. The former is my main experience with him). For a game with 8 out of 17 players to be conf!town, scum would have to have

very

significant power and/or multiple nightkills. The former goes against FG's design philosophy, and do I doubt that he's switched it up now. Plus, the theme is pretty clearly leading towards investigative/low night abilities. As for the latter, the scum team got one kill last night. Sure, it might be an X-shot night-kill and they saved it or our "doctor pair" blocked it, but I doubt this doctor is a thing (although I do somewhat suspect we have a doctor. I'm just waiting for a real claim).

Anyways

, I doubt that we're dealing with that high of a power level in this game. It's not in FakeGod's nature to design that.

Two sets of mason-lovers, one of which are also millers is a pretty big nerf of town power in a game with a dethy (which is already a pretty mixed bag).

[fferyllt]

I kinda feel like DS needs to not be near el-lo if he's town.

/shrug

I can't remember the last time I was in it in the first place. I think I've been in it twice, once on both sides and I think I lost both times.

PEdit: Unless I can get anyone to consider this situation, there's no use casing.

But that's not remotely the point, nor do I care to continue this conversation.

Again

, town fakeclaim all the time. It's not optimal play by

any

measure. It's not entirely alignment indicative.

So you're positing that up to two town neighbors have decided for some arcane reason to go along with their neighbor claiming that they're a masonry, not a neighborhood?

[fferyllt]

I'm lending my fainting couch and pearls to Penguin_Alien for writing that post.

[fferyllt]

I kinda feel like DS needs to not be near el-lo if he's town.

/shrug

I can't remember the last time I was in it in the first place. I think I've been in it twice, once on both sides and I think I lost both times.

PEdit: Unless I can get anyone to consider this situation, there's no use casing.

But that's not remotely the point, nor do I care to continue this conversation.

Again

, town fakeclaim all the time. It's not optimal play by

any

measure. It's not entirely alignment indicative.

So you're positing that up to two town neighbors have decided for some arcane reason to go along with their neighbor claiming that they're a masonry, not a neighborhood?

Hmm. Actually, that's a much better situation than I'd considered. I just considered people were being shitty jokers. But it does make more sense. I'll buy it.

My point is that this is a nonsensical view of the gamestate you're positing.

[fferyllt]

I actually think scum is likely going to be in {Peta, Gamma, Bell, Cakez} tbh

Peta and Cakez are my townreads among the not-confirmed along with an extremely reluctant concession to self that DS could be crazytown, Cakez is the one I feel least sure about.

Have you played a fair bit with both of them?

[fferyllt]

Part of me wants to get rid of the crazy noise right fucking now. Most of me wants to use as much of this day as possible to lay out a Xenogears style solve roadmap.

[fferyllt]

Your posting advocates a

( ) rational (X) mod-meta (X) theory-based ( ) random

approach to solving the setup. Your idea will not work. Here is why it won't work. (One or more of the following may apply to your particular idea, and it may have other flaws which vary from setup to setup.)

(X) Your solve requires scum that all decided to gamethrow
(X) A counterclaim would have occurred already
(X) It fails to take into account mod experimentation
( ) The mod has done this kind of thing in the past
( ) The mod has explicitly disavowed a part of your solution in public before
(X) Your solve would require mod lies despite the "no" reply in the Queue questionnaire
( ) It would no longer be an actual game of Mafia
( ) This would require site functionality that does not exist
( ) Town would have to intentionally play poorly to win
( ) Scum could autowin
( ) Town could autowin
( ) Existing flips disprove your hypothesis
( ) Massclaim would break this setup outright
( ) Massclaim would cause a scum auto win


Specifically, your plan fails to account for

(X) Players will play to win the game as their given alignment
( ) The mod takes pride and honor in their setups
( ) Modkills would prevent this
(X) Multiple players would have to gamethrow simultaniously

and the following objections may also apply:

(X) 2020 Meta makes this unlikely
( ) Any setup that encourages players to not use any of their abilities sucks
(X) Moderation lies suck
(X) moderation half-truths suck
(X) Towns that get lucky day one can break even a well-designed setup
( ) Scum factions that get lucky day one can break even a well-designed setup
(X) Wanting something to not be true does not make it false.


Furthermore, this is what I think about you:

(X) Sorry dude, but I don't think it works.
( ) This is a stupid solve, and you're a bad person for suggesting it.
( ) Nice try, assh0le! I'm going to find out where you live and burn your
house down!

this is such an excessive response for something so obviously wrong lol

He's meme-ing. It's probably less than 5 minutes worth of modifying a template.

[fferyllt]

i think we should just ignore DS at this point and put him in the crazy bucket

I need promises that he doesn't make it past day 4.

[fferyllt]

I'm not blocking the doorway anymore.

[fferyllt]

This is a small interaction with cakez that I had day one and I keep coming back to it thinking it might make him town

tammy i wish you had more thoughts on this game and not on old games

Me too!

dammit we crossposted and then my browser went out and I lost my post.

It wasn't anything great, but it is apropos to this post so I'll just rewrite it as a reply.

I've got some free time today so I'll actually be able to read this game mostly undistracted and not while also trying to work. Before my actual read, I've got working town reads on midwaybear, ffery, cabd, sryry. I don't even know why on midwaybear though; I just remember liking this posts.

I was looking at the playerlist last night and I realized that I don't actually have active suspicions on anyone*. Some pings here and there which has me wondering if it's setup related or if scum are in the people that I just haven't seen posting much? I don't know; hopefully a reread fixes that.

Although! If you're vote on me was serious, it's wrong, but I think you'll realize that once I have some thoughts on the game after actually reading it. I hope. I hope I have thoughts.

The players in this game are just good; the scum won't be obvious.

Yes, I know some of you will probably think I’m crazy for focusing on this, and you’d be right!, but sometimes I find these small little things that are more meaningful than a lot of other things.

This little thing didn’t hit me as omygods this is so town, but I have been thinking of it as possibly town indicative.

Does he say this about a scum team he’s on?

Yes, obviously anyone can, but I’m just not sure this is who he is as a scum player.

My take is similarly small. I kept going with the yeast thing because I felt like a scum player might be uncomfortable putting a fairly long, non-anime/vidyagame related and content-full derail into the game.

[fferyllt]

I thought you just liked bread

That certainly helped with the content!

I cut it off before I shared this link with you, though: https://exploratorium.edu/cooking/bread ... dough.html

This is how I started my mother dough.

[fferyllt]

Also, why you trying to look like town when u confirm town from the get go ff?

I live and breathe town when I'm town. By definition everything I do looks like town.

[fferyllt]

Nah she was talking about gamma who was talking about bread. Not her talking to gamma about bread.

Cakez

[fferyllt]

...

goddamnit

Can grpscum Bell convincingly act this out of touch with the game data?

[fferyllt]

Or is it a scumteam that collectively not processed the game data? And what the hell scum team would that be? bell, midway, ds maybe?

[fferyllt]

Pass.

[fferyllt]

Cabd, petapan: thoughts about trying gth?

Gamestate too topheavy. Something for day four or so

i actually disagree with this, the time for that sort of thing was day 1 or the start of day 2 when the field was more open. as things are, the field is too narrow, you're not as likely to get useful data. even if the scumteam are disconnected from the thread right now, they're much more likely to be coordinated in their approach which make things less useful - they know they have to push certain people, they know they have to do a certain amount of distancing. town are also going to be more self-conscious - you're more likely to get a lot of people with exactly 3 scum reads, for instance. but then, that was a technique i stole from someone on another website and used as an experiment, it's not something that i feel is even a reliable tool for me

Yeah, I've been thinking it's a missed opportunity, but wanted other opinions.

[fferyllt]

Kiddo finally asleep. Let me recover my eardrums, and then we can plan out.

Ffery, when will you be food telling?

somewhat indeterminate. Probably not for an hour or so.

[fferyllt]

That avatar switch was like stepping down on a stair that wasn't supposed to be there.

[fferyllt]

I want more townreads I feel good about.

I feel like I keep asking the same questions every few hours, revolving around peta and cakez. The answers usually make me feel like my townreading them is a little naive.

pedit see?

[fferyllt]

I want more townreads I feel good about.

I feel like I keep asking the same questions every few hours, revolving around peta and cakez. The answers usually make me feel like my townreading them is a little naive.

pedit see?

See, what I'm getting is that only Peta actually is processing the role claims in a logical manner. But they can't ALL be scum.

And that's why I want to townread peta. I can understand how he's processing the game.

I also understand how Nahdia is processing it Day 2. Even if it's not all completely dialed in to my view of the game, it's consistent enough that eh. ok.

Gamma's kind of the same way, but I'm not as comfortable with his play.

[fferyllt]

Bell just feels lost this game.

Like, independently of alignment, feels like he's down a few cylinders of his brain engine.

Yeah. I feel like he goes completely over the ledge, and then he reveals enough of how he's processing the game that I can hold my head sideways and think "maybe?" and then he makes another post that looks scummy as hell. Reading him this game is like bungee jumping.

[fferyllt]

I kinda feel like DS needs to not be near el-lo if he's town.

you don't win games by burning the village idiot, i don't think he's a bet the game read and i don't think i'd ever put him at that level but my immediate interest in killing him basically vanished with the posts from today.

My concern doesn't have to do with his alignment so much as his judgment.

[fferyllt]

The ghost of Shadi past?

If Shadi were grumpy, snarky and paranoid?

That's almost a description of me.

Grumpiness and snark are transient, at least.

[fferyllt]

that's not accurate at all

What post is this in response to?

[fferyllt]

Vote: Gamma

[fferyllt]

my take is either scum are trying to rile up the conftowns to get them to look elsewhere or towns are making a mistake

who is riling us up?

DS rn, maybe others

What others?

[fferyllt]

I 100% absolutely believe that it's some stupid inside joke.

Why can't they just be lying? I do not think it is a joke at this point even if it may have been likely before.

I think this narrative DS is trying to push regarding cabd and SS not being masons but also not being scum together is a super scum driven play. I’ve noticed ever since the very beginning of my mafia career scum tend to try to take this of angle where they cut out the base of conftowns’ mechanical clears without trying to actually put themselves fully against the conftown. It’s a play I can’t recall town ever doing to this degree and serves scum’s motives by trying to tear down the townblock. My vote’s already on DS but now I don’t really expect to move it at any point this day phase.

What are his scumteam doing around this play of his?

I kinda feel like DS needs to not be near el-lo if he's town.

/shrug

I can't remember the last time I was in it in the first place. I think I've been in it twice, once on both sides and I think I lost both times.

@Tammy DS is trying to destroy the idea that cabd is conftown but doesn’t want to put himself in a position to 1v1 cabd rn as that’s probably a losing battle.

Generally I see this kind of behavior on a less dramatic level where the scum just try to gaslight the conftown

. This is a much bolder move that speaks of scum desperation.

And then in the very next post, I feel like he's defined his own behavior as a less bold move than the one he accuses DS of making.

PEdit: Unless I can get anyone to consider this situation, there's no use casing.

But that's not remotely the point, nor do I care to continue this conversation.

Again

, town fakeclaim all the time. It's not optimal play by

any

measure. It's not entirely alignment indicative.

So you're positing that up to two town neighbors have decided for some arcane reason to go along with their neighbor claiming that they're a masonry, not a neighborhood?

Hmm. Actually, that's a much better situation than I'd considered. I just considered people were being shitty jokers. But it does make more sense. I'll buy it.

This post is also hella gross as this sort of abandoning of one’s thoughts for someone else’s is often a scum move

I was trying to put words around the implications of DS's scumread of Cabd, to show him how absurd it sounded.

DS adopted the absurdities wholeheartedly, which was bizarre enough.

And here, you're scumreading him for buying into the implications, rather than sticking with the initial raw take.

Something's wrong here.

I actually think {Bell, Gamma, Peta} as a team makes a lot of sense and I feel like they all have very similar reads to each other

Why do I hard defend my theoretical buddies here rather than bus at least one, especially Bell who has been SRed out of the gate with no sign of a turnaround there

This post really bothered me when it hit the thread. "Your team is based on a logical fallacy because I wouldn't do that as scum", but phrased socratically. Maybe this is something town-Gamma would say. It looks more like something an experienced player might ask in teaching-mode in a newbie game than something town would say to a peer in a theme game. The peer being a claimed mason.

[fferyllt]

Vote: Gamma

?

Not that I particularly object mind you but your bone grafts in the spine have grown super fast to naked vote and not at least try your hand at explaining it!

I had a dream last night that I woke up and you had tried to figure out my vote and wrote a beautiful case on Gamma.

Dream.

Crushed.

Which is fair given my reaction to your dream!

[fferyllt]

Hm, I lost my final point in 3276

Contrast the below with 3224

@Tammy DS is trying to destroy the idea that cabd is conftown but doesn’t want to put himself in a position to 1v1 cabd rn as that’s probably a losing battle.

Generally I see this kind of behavior on a less dramatic level where the scum just try to gaslight the conftown.

This is a much bolder move that speaks of scum desperation.

It's like Gamma inadvertently described his own response to Alisae in the earlier post as something akin to gaslighting the conftown.

[fferyllt]

You agree that those posts I quoted reveal a hinky mindset?

[fferyllt]

Okay so let's say we blitz gamma.

I want a pool to shoot in supposing each color of result.

Say... 2-3 people?

I don't think I can teamhunt at this point. :/

Lemme think about this for a short while.

[fferyllt]

I 100% absolutely believe that it's some stupid inside joke.

Why can't they just be lying? I do not think it is a joke at this point even if it may have been likely before.

I think this narrative DS is trying to push regarding cabd and SS not being masons but also not being scum together is a super scum driven play. I’ve noticed ever since the very beginning of my mafia career scum tend to try to take this of angle where they cut out the base of conftowns’ mechanical clears without trying to actually put themselves fully against the conftown. It’s a play I can’t recall town ever doing to this degree and serves scum’s motives by trying to tear down the townblock. My vote’s already on DS but now I don’t really expect to move it at any point this day phase.

What are his scumteam doing around this play of his?

I kinda feel like DS needs to not be near el-lo if he's town.

/shrug

I can't remember the last time I was in it in the first place. I think I've been in it twice, once on both sides and I think I lost both times.

@Tammy DS is trying to destroy the idea that cabd is conftown but doesn’t want to put himself in a position to 1v1 cabd rn as that’s probably a losing battle.

Generally I see this kind of behavior on a less dramatic level where the scum just try to gaslight the conftown

. This is a much bolder move that speaks of scum desperation.

And then in the very next post, I feel like he's defined his own behavior as a less bold move than the one he accuses DS of making.

PEdit: Unless I can get anyone to consider this situation, there's no use casing.

But that's not remotely the point, nor do I care to continue this conversation.

Again

, town fakeclaim all the time. It's not optimal play by

any

measure. It's not entirely alignment indicative.

So you're positing that up to two town neighbors have decided for some arcane reason to go along with their neighbor claiming that they're a masonry, not a neighborhood?

Hmm. Actually, that's a much better situation than I'd considered. I just considered people were being shitty jokers. But it does make more sense. I'll buy it.

This post is also hella gross as this sort of abandoning of one’s thoughts for someone else’s is often a scum move

I was trying to put words around the implications of DS's scumread of Cabd, to show him how absurd it sounded.

DS adopted the absurdities wholeheartedly, which was bizarre enough.

And here, you're scumreading him for buying into the implications, rather than sticking with the initial raw take.

Something's wrong here.

I actually think {Bell, Gamma, Peta} as a team makes a lot of sense and I feel like they all have very similar reads to each other

Why do I hard defend my theoretical buddies here rather than bus at least one, especially Bell who has been SRed out of the gate with no sign of a turnaround there

This post really bothered me when it hit the thread. "Your team is based on a logical fallacy because I wouldn't do that as scum", but phrased socratically. Maybe this is something town-Gamma would say. It looks more like something an experienced player might ask in teaching-mode in a newbie game than something town would say to a peer in a theme game. The peer being a claimed mason.

Well, at least I found my lost point.

[fferyllt]

Changing tracks for a second...

Ffery?

scummoned

[fferyllt]

Changing tracks for a second...

Ffery?

scummoned

You see it too, yeah?

re: weighing in on mason claims? Or more generally?

[fferyllt]

mm, guess you don't.

Not gonna say what it is while it's going down.

My kingdom for a PT between us.

phrases, they turn, yeah.

[fferyllt]

mm, guess you don't.

Not gonna say what it is while it's going down.

My kingdom for a PT between us.

I was reading over Tayl0r's iso again this morning and thinking there was relatively plentiful interaction in that direction, with a side of DS.

[fferyllt]

mm, guess you don't.

Not gonna say what it is while it's going down.

My kingdom for a PT between us.

I was reading over Tayl0r's iso again this morning and thinking there was relatively plentiful interaction in that direction, with a side of DS.

I guess you should just discuss it out loud.

Maybe?

I'm about to run some errands. Also, not sure how much you want to let things percolate a little longer. My urge to burn level is pretty high, though.

[fferyllt]

I mean we're getting near deadline. It's just time to call a smeerp a smeerp.

I'm back, but not entirely up for wordsing right now.

[fferyllt]

I think my personal pool today is {Gamma, Midway} for the elim. Then shooting pool is depending heavily on those flips and other thoughts I won't get into here.


But spayhalf has Thoughts and Thoughts are to be loved and cherished and respected.


Want to hear opinions form the other ya-yas, and from your lover.

With you on this. Also feeling a possible Bulge elim because of peta's conviction.

I'm working on a big stupid wall about Tayl0r's posts. And yes, I feel pretty dumb for doing it but I'm nearly finished so I'll go ahead and post it.

[fferyllt]

Wait for the morphheads to get their catnaps, and then yeah, we'll act tonight and get on with it.

Sadly, no catnap.

It feels like useless idle speculation, but players Tayl0r mentioned more than once:

Prior to Dethy reveal

Midway:
211Picked up on what she (and I and probably half the players) thought was a neighbor crumb.
252 sarcasm about engaged and focused town (sort of a pooky defend)
386 Called Midway and DS scum
392 at least one of midway and DS scum because of interactions
1094 Asked Midway why Gamma's post about OMG TAMMY TOWN was a townpost
1234 Asked Cabd why midway is a strong townread

Pooky:
251 backhanded attack on pooky about RP in reply to Cakez
252 backhanded defense of pooky about RP in reply to midway
1111 start of back and forth about whether to play catchup or skip to real time 1113 more


Cabd:
212Used my dethy post to him to crumb traitor by suggesting Cabd would betray me. -- convenient way to crumb traitor.
1234 Asked Cabd why midway is a strong townread

252 Haircolor post


DS:
260 Who am I buddying?
386 Called Midway and DS scum
392 at least one of midway and DS scum because of interactions
385 Votes DS
1098 Agrees with DS about not liking Bell but liking Bell wagon less
1099 Unvotes DS, wants more from SS
1283 asks if she's the only one townreading DS
1294 1297replies to peta about people scumreading DS


Alisae:
284 votes Alisae
289 297 300(?) trollery
1121 asks about reads list format

SS:
311 Asks SS why he jumps in on Bell on midway's behalf
323 trollery
329 Calls SS Town
348 oh snap u right
Unvotes DS wants more from SS

SirCakez
251 "Ur Scum" over liking the RP
1145 tells Cakez not to lie about her

petapan
334 Tells petapan not to abuse her tendency to townread people who pocket her
392 398 responds to peta's push about midway/DS scum
404 asks for peta's reads
406 "same, honestly" to peta's "no"
1294 1297 1308 1310replies to peta about people scumreading DS
1358 asks why DS is now a scumread


Bulge
1122 replies to his question about why she's asking questions about the reads list format
1524 replies to his post about difficulty getting stuck in the game with a comment about the 2012 cohort

Bell
311 Asks SS why he jumps in on Bell on midway's behalf
1098 Agrees with DS about not liking Bell but liking Bell wagon less
1135 Weird post about Bell's grandparents being spies.
1529 troll about bell reading

Gamma
1094Asked Midway why Gamma's post about OMG TAMMY TOWN was a townpost

2012 Cohort
Agrees with Bulge about difficulty getting engaged, says she's having trouble parsing 2012 posts

Reads After Dethy Reveal

1647 Jake traitor
1689 SS town
1690 "stronger townread on SS and scumreads on peta and bell."
1692 "midway is scum too. pooky feels not great but im not sure yet."
1752 Asks about midway saying not in a neighborhood after "softclaiming" (her word) neighborhood earlier
1763"gl with the 2012 cohort"

Players she didn't mention:

Nahdia
Syryana

Players she hardly mentioned

Cabd
Bulge
tammy - 1437fortune cookie post
fferyllt - hair color post, traitor crumb (links above)

----------------

Stuff that sticks out

1690 "stronger townread on SS and scumreads on peta and bell." -- could be my confbias but given the differing depths of interactions I feel like this could mean Bell-scum. Otoh Bell's reaction the the grandparent post feels counter to that.
Posts to bulge feel low-engagement. Maybe because Bulge wasn't around much to interact with? After the dethy announcement bulge was more focused on the rest of the dethy than on Tayl0r.
Posts to Cakez are at about the level of engagement she had with me :/