Open 798 | PYPX/Y+I/M | Game Over!

[petapan]

i thought about it and i'm with something smart that the cop should claim. not sure other roles outing beyond that is necessary. not into voting lilith without even a doc/rb claim to act as a potential alternative explanation for the lack of kill (and i'm doubtful about whether we have that one, either)

[petapan]

no but i don't really townread anyone

[petapan]

no but i don't really townread anyone

why don't you townread me?

because whil you've had moments where you've said stuff i was agreeing with (the suspicion of somethin mart coming to mind yesterday) and your interactions with skitter looked appropriately cagey, there is the vague sense of unease that youre steering everyone down the wrong path in a town with not much of a backbone, you're harping on sheeping the dead a little too much, and the way you were speaking to infinity at the start of the day felt a little artificial. but we haven't killed scum yet, i'm not really going to trust anyone.


with dave posting, i'm making the assumption that none of him/smart/infinity/me/menalque are claiming cop.

technically, i suppose, not_mafia could be cop, i had forgotten jv was above tgp in the draft order, but i find that unlikely. if he's not, then we don't need anyone else to claim because presumably someone in that group is scum who took the cop role but isn't claiming it. that's a nice little mechanical pool.

[petapan]

the question is, does scum gamble on cop still being available at 4/5/7, risking a valuable pick on a purely preventative play when roles with more utility are available, or are they more likely to take a flyer on it low in the draft when they're unlikely to get anything useful

[petapan]

I am not a cop

thank u

[petapan]

ahh fuck it, maybe we should just massclaim

S_S? thoughts?

Like I said. First massclaim cop/not cop, then we'll figure out what to do from there.

Not cop.

not cop, if that wasn't clear enough already. only person it could be is dave and i don't think dave is cop.

Dave, I'd also like you to talk about your reads.

I think claiming JK unprompted when liltih did is a pretty good play as scum, it could've gotten mena limmed and it's pretty low risk.

weren't you...just saying it was unlikely yesterday?

[petapan]

I'm reconsidering because of things I can't talk about atm. I'm still not sure it's the most likely, but maybe someone suggested the play to her.

no one here seems that sort of gutsy and if you were going to do it menalque seems a rather poor target

[petapan]

i'm not sure anyone currently alive is likely to think of that play as scum and to be honest i'm not sure we have a doctor so i'm not sure it's worth discussing lilith today

[petapan]

i'm just gonna say it: i think not_mafia is probably the neighborizer, because virtually no one else in the game would have neighborized dunnstral.

[petapan]

Peta who’s scum?

probably you or menalque lol

i'm not sure anyone currently alive is likely to think of that play as scum and to be honest i'm not sure we have a doctor so i'm not sure it's worth discussing lilith today

if there's no doctor, that would be a spanner in the works, as it implies that lilith must have stopped the kill or scum deliberately no-killed.

whereas if there is a doctor, it gives a little more equity to lilith being scum as it enables universes where there was a doc save and lilith fakeclaims a guilty, without there needing to be a scum no-kill N1 (which seems like a pretty low% play).

problem is, outing a potential doctor now to get more info about lilith's alignment doesn't seem worth it.

the doctor is essentially worthless given the remaining roles on the town side. no value in staying hidden if there are no roles worth protecting (do not tell me a 1-shot watcher is that valuable)

[petapan]

I am the neighbouriser

yeah, figured. JV neighborized uncrowned night 1, right?


minimum 1 in 5 in {me, infinity, menalque, dave, smart}.

[petapan]

you know what would be really funny

your pagetop getting stolen by dave?

[petapan]

kill on skitter did plausibly imply cop hunting but it'd be unusual for scum to RB either player if they have a hidden rb sitting somewhere (lilith targeting either makes sense regardless of alignment)

[petapan]

what sort of big brain play would I be going for here that makes sense exactly?

Idk but my senses are tingling. Simplest one was lying about being RBed to avoid making up results.

which would potentially put him in an immediate counterclaim, so...

[petapan]

well, in no particular order, either:

1. there is a town roleblocker who roleblocked menalque and potentially stopped the kill night 1 instead of lilith
2. there is a town doctor who would be a direct counterclaim to menalque
3. there is a scum roleblocker who blocked menalque
4. menalque is scum and the roleblocker is on his team or there isn't one

i think he's probably telling the truth about being blocked regardless because the potential for someone to just counter him would make it incredibly stupid to do as scum

[petapan]

I want to know where peta is at with reads because I feel like he's played this day very weirdly.

I'm scared mena and lilith are scum together.

i don't have any

[petapan]

doctor should not claim because (1) it's not, lili could have JK'd me last night

while that's possible it would require her and n_m planning the clear each other while using her jk elsewhere, because ???reasons??? which doesn't seem that likely

[petapan]

no

[petapan]

i'm just too deflated to react in a manner you'd consider appropriately towny

[petapan]

interesting that obvtown infinity also called you out as off, tho

i mean, yeah, because i'm projecting unconfidence, and unconfidence in mafia gets you eliminated. i know that well enough and i know how to fake stances were i scum, i just don't really have any anymore. mostly i'm just lost and this is me at my worst, and when i get like this in a game it usually doesn't get better.

[petapan]

S_S where have you gone

Playing games with friends, sorry :3

I am worried about you being scum bc of how you disappeared but I'm inclined to trust skitter's read on you and then

blame

gently rib her about it after the game if ur scum

i really wish i'd asked her about that read because i don't understand it at all but just naively assumed it was something mechanical, no i don't give a shit how this makes me look

[petapan]

minimum 1 in 5 in {me, infinity, menalque, dave, smart}.

what was the logic here?

the idea that someone had the cop slot but was not claiming it and is therefore likely a scum redirector who doesn't want to give out reports

[petapan]

that was basically my process for the day because i'm not reading people well this game and so i wanted something mechanical to latch onto going off tgp's pick

[petapan]

i'm going to choose to believe that if menalque was fakeclaiming cop as scum he wouldn't do it in such a stupid gambit-y way, though.

[petapan]

so does anyone have a problem with just sequentially eliminating (Best Bird, Dave, lilith, peta)?

I think you get one - maybe two - scum in that list.

who do you think's outside it?

[petapan]

why didn't anyone pick the quintuplevoter role...

[petapan]

i think maybe,

maybe

lilith looks like someone who knew menalque was lying and was hoping to get him deaded and then she could just say "oh well shouldn't have lied" but that's a very hasty conclusion. still want to reread the game.

[petapan]

meh i'll claim vt as i've made myself pretty obvious anyway

[petapan]

night 3 vig

[petapan]

wondering if there's too much casual confidence to infinity's posts from the start of the day

[petapan]

VT. Went for rolecop.

...why?

[petapan]

well, anyway: i fibbed a little bit with my claim. i went for 1-shot watcher. didn't want to out that right away just in case of potential shenanigans although it probably wouldn't matter much. so now dave can't be the redirector unless either 1. i'm scum fakeclaming to back him up or 2. he's roleswapping with a teammate in the group of unknowns. both of these would be dumb and suboptimal, but regardless, we don't flip dave today because there's still scum in the group of 4.

so lilith is virtual locktown and the people trying to get us to vote her today don't look good

[petapan]

do you think mafia fucking nokilled on night 2, knowing there wasn't a doctor, just for the sake of bolstering a fakeclaim when that gives town an extra elimination? no way in hell.

(i mean, unless someone got cute and didn't claim doc)

[petapan]

unless it was...you??????????????????

but for real, possibly. maybe even probably.

[petapan]

i wanted to give credit for retracting his gambit but that goes away when he didn't remember there's confirmed to be someone who took the cop role slot

[petapan]

bird and hoopla are offlimits today because they can't be redirector (drafted below tgp). the pool is exactly 4 people, and i can give pretty good reason why it's not me if nothing else

[petapan]

Why is it not you?

i am (or was, at least) a pretty fucking competent scum player. i entered the day aware of the mechanics in play with regard to claims. my whole day has been spent trying to work through claims to get a mechanical poe. not only have i put myself in that poe, i've taken someone else out of it. doing this, rather than claiming any missing power roles, puts me squarely in the crosshairs where i could instead hav either claimed doc and possibly gotten lilith voted out, or just claimed cop to avoid this situation in the first place. i'd have to give reports, but i could just claim a free guilty and send the game to lylo with town having no useful power roles. not a hard thing to do. claiming the way i have just makes my life harder than necessary as scum.

I’m very confused by why dave’s claim makes him town?

i'm not claiming it makes him town, ftr. i'm claiming it rules him out from having chosen cop/redirector in the auction. i know the redirector has 3 possibilities of who they could be. you think it's me, fine, flip me, but then dave's off limits tomorrow and you have to hunt the redirector anyway.

[petapan]

lol

[petapan]

sheer fact of it is scum made a mechanical misplay coming into today that i was very obviously aware of and wouldn't have done in the first place. menalque letting slip he was unaware of this is probably a sign.

like, i don't know how relevant this is but

8 years ago in this very setup

i replaced into a scum slot on a team that had drawn redirector, and i tried to get my teammate to plan out a cop claim from day 2. it didn't work out because he wound up more or less shitting himself, but the thought was there. i would have planned this sort of thing out.

post originally had a vote for menalque in it but i'm going to talk things out instead

[petapan]

sheer fact of it is scum made a mechanical misplay coming into today that i was very obviously aware of and wouldn't have done in the first place. menalque letting slip he was unaware of this is probably a sign.

I’m still unaware of it, what are you talking about?

leaving town with a confirmed missing cop slot in a group of people. i guess technically it's not that bad because the odds of finding scum in us 4 are potentially worse, but the field is narrowed, puts people under scrutiny who might not have been looked at otherwise. narrows the elimination pool and takes away people who would've been relatively easy votes.

[petapan]

i am (or was, at least) a pretty fucking competent scum player. i entered the day aware of the mechanics in play with regard to claims. my whole day has been spent trying to work through claims to get a mechanical poe. not only have i put myself in that poe, i've taken someone else out of it. doing this, rather than claiming any missing power roles, puts me squarely in the crosshairs where i could instead hav either claimed doc and possibly gotten lilith voted out, or just claimed cop to avoid this situation in the first place. i'd have to give reports, but i could just claim a free guilty and send the game to lylo with town having no useful power roles. not a hard thing to do. claiming the way i have just makes my life harder than necessary as scum.

Yeah but I feel like no matter what scum played a good game and anyone in the PoE could have claimed something that doesn't put them there. Idk. Who do you think is scum?

i'm having doubts toward menalque primarily because of his progression toward lilith and the way he was trying to get people to vote her today without claims. felt like it was an attempt to hustle us.

[petapan]

and i know for a fact skitter was wrong on at least one of her townreads so shrug

[petapan]

siting here blinking going

dude i fucking led you here and you think i'm scum for it

[petapan]

*shrug* well it’s 100% confirmed that

someone

made an odd WIFOM play as scum

an odd wifom play or they didn't realize what not claiming cop would do. which i have been very keenly aware of, since the start of the day

[petapan]

so, SS/BB/peta is probably my top solve right now.

so i played today by putting myself in a poe with one of my teammates in it? lmfao. you're better than this.

[petapan]

LMFAO

[petapan]

tgp had a better read on hoopla than me, huh

[petapan]

VOTE: Infinity

[petapan]

claiming i somehow made a mechanical fuckup on the process i initiated is peak absurdity when there's verifiable proof i'd be trying to plan a cop claim if a teammate took redirector

but my feeling is at least 2 of the people i'm talking to here are scum so i don't really expect to persuade them

[petapan]

VOTE: menalque

[petapan]

NM is already voting you

[petapan]

best bird, lilith, whenever you get back to this, if you have questions regarding the mechanics or my thinking, feel free to ask, i guess.

i am actually weirdly more comfortable now than i was at the start of the day, even if i get voted out, because i think we're in the position where scum has realized they need to try to eliminate me rather than trick me, and that makes it a lot easier from my view. even if i get voted out here they're going to have to sell out to kill me and my finger will be pointing at them

[petapan]

all 3 of you have had your reasoning get increasingly ludicrous while ignoring what i say

especially funny is hoopla's theory that something smart makes a nokill on night 1 (a move of dubious mechanical value) while then somehow forgetting to claim cop (???)

the one thing confusing me is i wouldn't have believed a scumteam with hoopla would slip up with mechanics in that regard either, but she's not inspiring confidence that she's town right now

[petapan]

it'd be naive to think it's all 3 of them, but it definitely feels like there's been a turn in the last few pages

[petapan]

Peta we’re literally trying to figure out the game.

no what you're doing is throwing out a bunch of names and going "hmm thats my solve" lmao

if you're really trying ti figure out the game don't give such abjectly poor logic as "peta made a misplay on the claim he was trying to figure out since the start of the day"

[petapan]

nah i just think you're overinflating what you've done and your reasoning is starting to show some holes

[petapan]

i haven't had good reads, there's been a lack of obvtown, i know for a fact someone who's scum played a good game. i'm not some ace town player or anything

[petapan]

that's such a weird thing to BoP me on - i don't spectate games the way i play them, i rarely give reads lists in games (i used to never do this), i've tried doing it in spectator threads as a means of testing myself. i don't know why or how the fuck you think that's a valid baseline to compare my play to here. i also work better when i have a decent townread i can work off of, and that hasn't happened here. this game is full of people who are not easy to get a handle on and who don't act as strong town voices which make it harder to have reads

[petapan]

i also don't know how you came up with the notion to meta me from a

spectator thread

of a game that literally just ended and expect that to be valid? seriously, what the fuck. that might be the second worst attempt at a meta-read anyone has given on me.

it's also...not a good argument? my scumreads were 2/5 before i stopped giving lists because the game was too hard to keep up with, 1 in the nulls, but if i'd done another list that would've been on the low end of the town side as well. not exactly stellar. i feel like a big part of being sure shelly was scum was owed to leeching off the reads of the players in the game, as well, but this is a game i was spectating a month ago so i don't remember my exact thought process

[petapan]

i've had 3 completed town games i was in from day 1 on this site since i came back, and you choose to not look at any of those, but a spectator thread? what the fuck

[petapan]

what made you think that was a good idea or a valid baseline for my play?

[petapan]

Here's an example of how to get better.
VOTE: Menalque

i am already voting him thanks

[petapan]

2/5 is pretty good tho

And like you definitely don’t have any townreads to work off’ve, so that’s 2/5 day 1 with one in null which honestly is pretty solid pure read atrength

It’s also clear that you are able to authentically generate reads off your own back whereas here I think you like, haven’t done that nearly so much although I do need to check your iso one more time before I lock you in as part of the solve

2/5 in a set of 20 is slightly above random (expected number is 1.25) and there were a decent number of obvtown players in that game. there aren't here. again, fucking annoying that you'd try to BoP me this way! also has the implication that i'm, like, unable to fake it as scum, which just isn't true. i could conceivably scumcase any player who's still alive, that' shit's easy. figuring out what's right is the hard part.

meanwhile you're trying to say lilith no-killed as mafia night1, a move i find exceedingly unlikely

[petapan]

I’m trying to say that either lili no killed or scum tried to kill me, actually

i see literally 0 reason she or any team here would deliberately nokill an so i'm not going to vote her there

if you think i'm scum i see no reason i shouldn't be the optimal flip today over them except if you're afraid me being green comes back on your head

[petapan]

Idk peta, I’m still considering but I do think your play today strategically serves you much more as town

Dave and lili are both scummy, no? And either one flipping would confirm me as town (basically)

Yet you’re voting me, despite having had a pretty strong TR on me earlier in the game

So it’s like, your position has changed and also very much serves what I think a scum agenda would be here (miseliminate the town leader before they can get cred from flipping scum)

i don't find lilith towny on play but on actions it seems highly unlikely she's scum and so when i know one of {you, infinity, smart} is scum and you keep trying to flip heri'm gonna find that suspicious

[petapan]

prior to today i would've had smart as scummier than you or infinity but then you both started getting weird

[petapan]

and again this doesn't answer the question of why you're trying to meta/BoP me off a fucking spectator thread and not an actual game

[petapan]

that gambit falls apart like a house of cards if i get eliminated and pits me against several people who were generally townread, it would be a completely fucking stupid move as scum

plus, like, i'd just fucking claim cop because i know i'd have to claim cop:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=22791
https://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/AtaZQGftFnExC

right now things are fairly in town's favor, with us needing 4 mislynches to win. however, SO LONG AS YOU STAY ALIVE (and being able to claim cop should help with this), i can get away with a universal backup claim, and claim vengeful which means i won't get lynched before 3-way lylo, which means all we really need to do is keep you from getting lynched that day and lynching anyone else

if you have to claim cop, don't clear a scummy player, clear someone who's not getting lynched anyway or someone we have to kill anyway - like arugula, he's a vig, decent choice to clear if you get run up since he's not getting lynched anyway most likely (i'm just hoping to run him up so we can potentially force a claim)

peta
08-21-2012
10:19 PM ET (US)
like, i don't even know what to say here, we know we shot hoopla so it's nonsense reasoning, just say something because arugula is convinced you have inside information. would be a good idea to fakeclaim cop, also.

[petapan]

Mena I feel more comfortable voting peta today than lilith

how confident are you, tough guy?

[petapan]

good answer

[petapan]

if it's not you, very possibly infinity and...someone

[petapan]

i'm sure as hell no no-killing on night 1 as scum

hoopla trying to have me compromise my vote off menalque makes me want to keep it there more. my concern is opposite hers in that if he's scum i feel like today is the last chance there is to get him

[petapan]

What do you think about my dave/peta/infinity/S_S conundrum, Best Bird?

It makes my head hurt. I can see the dave/peta thing but I don't know how I feel about it on gut yet.

do you have thoughts on who is scum in the redirector group

[petapan]

fio the record - i'm not townclearing dave. i'm just saying he picked the role he claims to have picked. but menalque keeps trying to push outside the redirector pool and go after lilith when i can't see a mafia nokill on night 1 as a realistic play, which makes me want him dead

[petapan]

i abjectly don't fucking care if i get flipped today, it's better than flipping someone who can't be redirector

[petapan]

i'd rather read in a smaller group of people where i know there's at least one, find them, and work outward from there if we manage to get that flip and not lose the game

[petapan]

i'd prefer not to get yeeted obviously but if people are gonna suggest i'm scum for nebulous reasons then we can resolve that issue right now

i entirely think it's possible ther could be multiple scum in the group given how infinity went from trying to talk nice to me, be like "c'mon i want you to solve" to turning on me and deciding i'm most likely scum when i actually bothered to piece together the mechanics rather than just sheeping along and voting lilith

[petapan]

My logic on lili being locktown is as follows:

There is confirmed to me that there is a JK in the slots above me (pine requested JK and didn’t get it)

Lilith is claimed JK

I don’t see why scum lili would claim a JK on me there but I think town!lili excited because she thought it was a guilty /totally would/ out herself there


***

I think skitter is scummy for not being dead and for pushing lili like this, which is what I think scum would do if there’s a doctor in the game who blocked the kill N1 and who scum are worried would cover lili last night

whatever happened to this reasoning, btw

did it suddenly go away because lilith is a convenient vote, or what

[petapan]

scummy because...?

[petapan]

i don't see how lack of confidence in my own viewpoint is scummy as opposed to me being unconfident town

i could go back, reread the game thread, iso everyone, do casewalls, but 1. it'd be a bunch of performative bullshit that i'd probably get wrong regardless 2. it isn't likely to get read, anyway

so instead i'm just gonna point my finger at people where i know there's gotta be scum and if i'm wrong, oh well, we both deserve to lose

[petapan]

as it is i think you're probably attacking me for strategic reasons and so i don't have any particular reason to want to persuade you and certainly won't jump through hoops to impress you. if you actually are town then we've failed to see eye to eye, likely because of a fundamental difference in how we choose to approach the game. i don't know that that's something that can be overcome, at least not within the confines of this game

[petapan]

But you don’t seem unconfident. You’re very confident I’m wrong. If you’re town, I don’t deserve to lose because you were wrong, and I’m almost 100% sure working with mena and hoopla is our best bet but you seemed to be very against that for reasons I don’t understand.

because i don't fucking townread them lmfao

[petapan]

what i have to go off of is, for all his measured and dashing posts, menalque is trying to get votes on the jailkeeper when lilith being scum would require an intentional nokill on night 1, a move i find exceedingly unlikely

[petapan]

Yeah idk. I hate it when people tell me my strong TRs are wrong, it happens all the time and I’m almost always right. If you were town, I’d expect you to at least give some consideration to my PoV here since you don’t really have a cohesive one of your own and you’ve townread me in the past. Obviously I don’t have everything figured out, and I could be wrong on mena/hoopla but the fact that you don’t even seem to be considering my PoV feels like you’re approaching this with an agenda and opposed to just not having confidence.

your pov is that i'm fucking scum of course i'm not going to consider it

[petapan]

i don't know why you're dragging that up, i had doubts about the tgp wagon in particular because of my read on him, not because of any "gamestate" shit (none of this "gamestate" or "solving" shit was in the lexicon back in 2012). i didn't fight it hard enough, but then my alternative vote was dunnstral. i had doubts there yesterday too but i let menalque talk me out of them

i don't know why it matters, though - i thought you were generally town day 2 but i haven't been right yet and i'm running out of possibilities. why the hell should i trust you?

[petapan]

It feels like I've been the only one trying to resist the flow of the game for a few day phases, and I thought town!you might've felt the same way about us playing into scum's hands. My heart also wasn't in the dunn elim and isn't in the mena elim, so I was just reminded of that quote. But apparently you don't feel the same way so *shrug*

did you not get that feeling when you and menalque were voting lilith uncontest? do you think the menalque vote is uncontested? because from where i'm sitting it looks very contested

[petapan]

yeah truth be told i had the feeling it was wrong but he also wasn't really playing and so didn't care. bad move? probably. was hoping claims would make the picture clearer.

[petapan]

and the thing that bothers me is, that reasoning about lilith being town from menalque i quoted earlier, suddenly it all went away when dunn claimed and had the exact same reasoning. suddenly dunn was obvscum for saying the same thing menalque had about lilith. and yeah, i should have said this at the time, instead of now. that's a failure on my partbut it doesn't mean i can or should continue to ignore it.

[petapan]

i'd prefer not to get yeeted obviously but if people are gonna suggest i'm scum for nebulous reasons then we can resolve that issue right now

i entirely think it's possible ther could be multiple scum in the group given how infinity went from trying to talk nice to me, be like "c'mon i want you to solve" to turning on me and deciding i'm most likely scum when i actually bothered to piece together the mechanics rather than just sheeping along and voting lilith

What is nebulous about the reasons I’m saying you’re very plausibly scum gambiting with Dave and going for the win?

What is your alternative explanation? Who is scum in S_S/infinity and why? I wanna hear this today if I’m going so I can try to give town as much help towards a correct solve tomorrow as possible

because "might be gambiting" isn't really a solid case and beyond that all you've suggested is "isn't playing like he did in a spctator thread" (which i'm still pissed off about)

if you were to flip town i'd have to guess that it's something_smart but at that point the game is probably lost if infinity's town because he probably votes me. as to why? i dunno, because he plausibly shoots you night 1, basically didn't do anything on days 2-3, has had some

okay

reactions today but beyond that not a whole lot? would be the only guess i have.

[petapan]

if you wanna just argue "skitter townread the other 3 people" then, okay, vote me

[petapan]

because i don't fucking townread them lmfao

Yeah, again, why? What is not towny about me other than there being a soft guilty? Who has done more to try and move this game along, to engage people, and to solve than me?

tryharding doesn't make you town and the fact that we're in the situation we're in would make sense if the dominant voice in the room was scum

[petapan]

You have tied yourself to Dave by vouching for him and saying he can’t be the scum here.

for the hundredth time -

i am not townclearing him, i am just saying he took the role he says he took

[petapan]

on another note, i'm annoyed peta/dave won't entertain me conversationally about a more indepth solve, but i guess we just need a scumflip to get motivation going again.

i'm really at the limits of how much i can think about here, i don't have the confidence to try to call a team

[petapan]

Peta if Dave is scum do you think it townclears me y/n and why

i hate ruling things out that easy but, i would guess he probably wouldn't bus here. but, and this is only really definitely true from my pov, i have to question why he takes 1s watcher with the 4th pick as scum. i also don't think his posts are as bad as you're saying

[petapan]

yeah that makes me nervous

[petapan]

UNVOTE:

i've been worried about hoopla all day but fuck, i don't know. i can try and reread

[petapan]

the only thing i know for certain is that this game is driving me bonkers in a way that mafia hasn't done to me in a long time.

relatable but also everything feels so different to me now

[petapan]

again not sure why you're thinking that faking analysis is outside my capacity - it's not.

i've tried to explain things and why i thought for all him WIM that menalque pushing for a vote on the claimed jailkeeper when there's no other plausible explanation for the blocked nightkill is scummy. i can try to go over my thoughts on every player in a little more detail tomorrow but i don't know that it's gonna change much

game is hard right now because the conversations are so lopsided

[petapan]

high in the draft making redirector more likely

i had been thinking on this and was going to say something but i'm too tired to draft a post tonight, but - at pick #5? it doesn't feel as likely. it's good as a preventative play for scum but doesn't have as much utility and there's a pretty decent chance you won't get it. and from there you have to assemble a potential team for him and i'm not sure there are many that make sense, but i don't have time to get into that now. aiming at cop makes more sense as a flier on a later pick where you might not expect to get it anyway

[petapan]

Why is redirector being discussed at all?

have you not been reading? there's mechanically confirmed to be a redirector (or a scum cop but w/e), since tgp tried to take cop and didn't get it, and it's in one of me/smart/infinity/menalque. nice little bit of mechanical information for you, the most we're likely to get.

[petapan]

and the one last thing i'll fire off here before i force myself to log off, i know dave's pick is real, barring screwy roleswap shenanigans that i have no reason to believe scum would pull because i hadn't claimed my pick, and so i find it super hard to believe scum took watcher with probably their first pick in the draft while aiming for the cop slot later. would just be a bizarre drafting strategy.

[petapan]

I'll see what you do

I have a heavy pre-disposition to viewing you as scum tho, and that whatever you're doing is playing to a scum wincon and I think have valid reasons to treat you that way

idk, I think you and pooky are both competent as scum, so I don't think you'll be able to project town sufficiently to get me to TR you but we'll see I suppose

Well help me out then, because unless duckling grants us an extension, I don’t know how much help I’ll be. So if you could perhaps give me a rundown of what’s been happening in this game, that would be swell.

who did lilith target each night?

[petapan]

for the record, for me to be scum with infinity I have to have entered the game lolbussing him almost to the point of killing him (and I haven't done this, because I don't need to, but I'm p sure if anyone goes back to check his reaction to that it's not gonna be partnery interactions) only to then... redirect onto DGB and not get any cred for the lolbus push and in fact get ACTIVELY sussed bc of it

let's not forget, my wagon grew on D2 BEFORE lili outed the JK on my slot and it was all because I'd abandoned infinity!wagon for a DGB!guillo

i do not think you came close to killing him at any point, however i did think the way he responded to you was non-partnery. but at this point in the game i have to try to bend my head around possibilities that seemed not all that likely because not much is making sense

[petapan]

wow pooky why don't i get a hi

[petapan]

thank you and welcome to the game

[petapan]

well, in short: you're claimed jailkeeper, there was no kill night 1 and there's no claimed commuter or doc/rb. i am assuming scum would not no-kill gambit, since you were not in the game until now. do you have the list of who lilith targeted from the mod? want to confirm the targets before anything else

[petapan]

nancy was supposed to have asked for the actions i dunno where the holdup is

but in the meantime, a list of the claims:

lilith - jailkeeper
davesaz - 1-shot watcher
something_smart - vt, went for rolecop
infinity 324 - vt, went for night 3 vig
petapan - vt, went for 1-shot watcher
pine/menalque - vt, went for jk
jacksonvirgo/not_mafia - neighborizer
penguinpower - vt, went for fruit vendor
hoopla - vt, went for cop

TGP also said he went for cop, meaning that since there is no cop claim, it's likely that there is a mafia redirector in {me, smart, infinity, menalque}. that is the current main quandary from my point of view. i'm not having an easy time reading those 3 players and i feel like the game hinges on who is mafia among them

[petapan]

you could also argue that given the UB slot was out of scum's control and we eliminated a PGO D1, scum may have been fearing a high draft pick arming themselves with a PGO shot. shooting mena (who was one slot below DGB) is a plausible NK choice as he's a strong player guaranteed not to be PGO.

i think i've just talked myself into town!mena from a mechanics perspective (not for sure obviously, but much more than before).

can someone (SS, peta, infinity) chime in and tell me how persuasive the above thinking is?

based on what we know, there was little reason for scum to fear any power role, so i could see scum shooting who they thought had the most plausibly threatening reads. but, i don't know, as intimidating as menalque's outbursts are i still can't understand why he's consistently pushing back against the lilith slot. a day ago he was practically screaming bloody murder that you and dave were scum, and now he's back to saying it's them. It can't be all 3 of you. i am continually bothered at how he's pushing outside on certain players. it's just illogical to think a nokill gambit was what was attempted night 1 and i don't think he's a completely irrational player. and so the way he keeps tryin to push there looks scummy to me.

every time something_smart actually opens up, it makes sense to me, and he's certainly been the most reasonable with his posts. i get a little worried with the fencesittiness of it, though, because the "oh gosh, everyone seems town, i'm not sure what to do (because i am scum)" is a thing i've seen before. his summary of his issues with infinity today in 3584 was good and verbalized some of the discomfort i have had with him. but then, i don't know, is infinity being all over the place scummy? i feel scum are more prone to pick an angle and stick with it.

[petapan]

also, welcome to the game smoke & mirrors!

looking forward to doing business with you.

Thanks, I wanted to play this from the beginning not start on D4.

i agree that the draft is the fun part and everything after is pain but we kinda need you to get up to speed fast because this is a critical day and there is not much time left

[petapan]

{petapan, menalque, infinity 324, something_smart}

one of these 4 people has to be scum, because it is confirmed the cop role was taken and no one has claimed it. your slot jailed menalque night 1 and there was no kill. read those 4 people and pick one to vote today.

[petapan]

the way dave has thrown suspicion s_s's way a few times makes me wonder if that

could

be a thing

[petapan]

because he is insisent your slot could be scum because lilith wasn't very active, despite there being no other explanation for the lack of a kill, other than mafia not submitting an action.

[petapan]

it doesn't make fucking sense to me

if you believed another role stopped the kill that's one thing but to insist in the face of everything that a nokill is more likely than the roleclaim being legitimate is just being obstinate in the face of reality or it's a stubborn attempt to expand the poe

[petapan]

am i being too surface in thinking there aren't many players here who would attempt that gambit?

and, do you have an opinion on the redirector group, best bird?

[petapan]

who do you think would nokill (don't fucking say me)

why infinity?

[petapan]

menalque
infinity
smart

but honestly i keep flip flopping between the second two. infinity is all over the place but i want to believe him whining about no one listening to him


i don't really have a high confidence in my ability to vote correctly in ELO. When I end up there as town, the outcome is typically a loss.

[petapan]

kinda dont think its infinity because reasons

[petapan]

but if he gets his way on me i'll probably still go down screaming his name. i don't have a good process this game. didn't find the will to reread.

[petapan]

it feels like it should mean something that something_smart is getting named as a primary or secondary scumread by basically everyone actually playing the game who isn't me

[petapan]

if i had to guess, instincts are scum don't have good reason to bus here and he's being set up as an unhappy compromise? unless the team were something like exactly dave/smart/bird at which point it's maybe plausible distancing but that's maybe like the only real possibility where i see him as scum. more likely to be town based on those reads, willing to eat shit for this

[petapan]

the way dave has thrown suspicion s_s's way a few times makes me wonder if that

could

be a thing

Please clarify -- you mean if SS could be scum? I'm unsure how to treat "thrown suspicion" here.

if it's somehow you distancing from him. i realize that is incredibly vague. but i still think draft logic says if you're a team you choose different roles

[petapan]

Menalque Infinity peta I guess, but I don't have to feel good about it.

I feel like S_S using mechanics to justify voting me when the mechanics are weak evidence for me being scum is fairly +scum for him, ftr

because I feel like S_S, despite his earlier protestations to the contrary, knows my towngame well enough to know by this point that this is it, despite his respect for my scumgame

and you're voting me here because...?

[petapan]

so this is purely based in a hypothetical rather than any actual reasoning toward me being scum. got it.

VOTE: menalque

[petapan]

like what a garbage reason. pure dogshit.

[petapan]

I mean it's really gonna vindicate me when you red

not happening

[petapan]

but you're fucking dead even if i go over today and i think i'm fine with that outcome

[petapan]

it's not but i'm done trying to make a point of this

[petapan]

I mean, it is unless you find it very compelling that there's more than 1 scum in the redirector pool that we've looking at which I think is unlikely

i legit do not know who is scum otherwise

[petapan]

I mean, it is unless you find it very compelling that there's more than 1 scum in the redirector pool that we've looking at which I think is unlikely

i legit do not know who is scum otherwise

what do you mean

you're saying there /are/ 2 scum in the redirector pool? if you're not scum, then it's S_S or infinity, + 2 which are by definition outside the pool

I don't *think* S_S + infinity are teamed, but if they are then fair play

no i'm saying it's too hard for me to guess who's scum between anyone else b/c none of them are easily readable in a typical sense

[petapan]

this doesnt feel like dave-scum. in fact him being short with people over not getting his way feels more likely to come from town here

[petapan]

it sure would be nice if smoke and mirrors would show up at some point

[petapan]

i'm just looking back at day 2 now

do you really think the intentional no-kill is a likely scenario, as in, at all?

why was this suddenly something you became insistent on today when you kept trying to get votes on lilith?

[petapan]

@Mena why are you in such a rush?

Deadline: 1 day, 7 hours, 45 minutes

probably that is why

[petapan]

i'd really prefer to not not wait until the last possible minute, although i understand your position isn't great, i

really

would like for you to at least be open about what you're thinking, you don't have to go ito detail but i want to hear something

[petapan]

i feel like that comment to s&m is something i would post even if i was scum? but you should be nervous because i am town

[petapan]

hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[petapan]

how dumb would it be if i threw away everything i've said until now to attempt a last minute flashwagon

[petapan]

i'm gonna iso smart

[petapan]

i'm such an easy mark

[petapan]

it was a marathon game, i don't have a real completed longform game on here since i came back. i replaced into a scum slot in newbie 2033, but it was a slot where i got immediately guiltied by a tracker and fought in a losin counterclaim. but i certainly can summon up that bile as scum, still, and you kind of get an example of that there

[petapan]

fwiw if i were to gambit with claims here i don't do one that ties me to my partner so obviously and i probably just claim cop with a guilty for the free elim?

[petapan]

i've made somewhat gutsy plays as scum before but one like that just seems like -EV especially when it puts me in a thunderdome with people who are getting townread

[petapan]

pooky are you gonna hold the specter of that game over me for all time or are you gonna acually try to read me this game

[petapan]

i've made somewhat gutsy plays as scum before but one like that just seems like -EV especially when it puts me in a thunderdome with people who are getting townread

...you mean S_S/infinity of whom one is also quite mixed feelings?

idk, were they? my perception anyway is that no one really townread

me

as compared to all of you guys and i'd like to think if that is my perception currently as town it'd likely be the same if i was scum. i think not many people townread smart but people were kinda sheeping skitter there? even though there was never really an expressed reason for it. but i came into the day with a clear idea of what the mechanics around claims were and doing a watcher claim that ties me to dave is pretty much the worst one i could make

[petapan]

Also just generally makes me feel like you’re a v ballsy scumplayer who likes a little spice which is not the impression I had of you before

how would you feel if i told you i won best scum player in 2012

[petapan]

Also just generally makes me feel like you’re a v ballsy scumplayer who likes a little spice which is not the impression I had of you before

how would you feel if i told you i won best scum player in 2012

not encouraged

i won my games that year solo, though. was never much of a team player although i went back and revisted them and it's basically like a different game was being plaed. ballsiest play was, i think, fakeclaiming tracker with a report on the obvious SK. but i don't know. in theory that hostility that briefly made you think i was town is right in my wheelhouse but i haven't had to put it in practice in a long time and just because i have a reputation doesn't mean i'm scum, but the thing that makes me town i think is my struggle but that's not really meaningful to anyone who doesn't know me. i think fwiw the scum really aren't making the best move by no claiming but seeing as it's sent me on this downward spiral it might be working anyway

[petapan]

how would you feel if i told you i won best scum player in 2012

how would you feel if I told you I won best overall player in 2005. :3

really figured you'd mention the funniest role claim award first

[petapan]

i'm still doing that iso

[petapan]

just because i have a reputation doesn't mean i'm scum,

That’s not what I’m saying tho

I’m saying more “I cleared you based on some assumptions that seem to be quite clearly false, and now that those assumptions are false I’m struggling to see why the thing of you/Dave is an implausible play for you to make as scum” especially when everyone has become incredibly resistant to guillotining Dave (whose posting today has been

awful

) and you seem much more able to defend yourself — plus you only need 2 more to win, so yes, it would probably doom you if you’d made the link earlier game, but at this point I think it’s a reasonably worthwhile risk if you can just win immediately from it tomorrow, and if you think the third partner has a good chance of winning 3p even if it goes wrong

i don't think killing him is the right play, and as blunt as dave's posting today is i'm not sure it's scum indicative for him. he seems to get a lot more frustrated when not getting his way as town. maybe i just suck, it wouldn't be anything new

but i really don't think backing up a partner claim like that would be a good play or one i'd make. like i said my style was always to pretty much throw my partners to the wolves at the first sign of trouble

[petapan]

Like, I would totally consider taking a risk on the day before lylo to try and win the game faster because the longer games run on the more chance something might fuck you up

Got to strike while t’iron’s hot

Also, I hate going to 3p and 1v1ing guaranteed but that is definitely a me thing

the 1v1 is what i live for because i can just argue like crazy and never shut up

[petapan]

true tbh

[petapan]

i'm town and i tried to do what i thought would help, don't know why you think i'd box myself in like this

[petapan]

on net i'm still concerned with menalque because i felt like some of his posts were just blatantly manipulative but that moment where he hesitated on me felt pretty good. like i sid, i'm an easy mark. i'm finishing that iso of smnart and it's reminding me of a lot of the issues i had there

[petapan]

pooky talk to me

[petapan]

VOTE: s_s ehh ok

Why?

Hoopla convinced me, honestly I’m pretty comfortable just sheeping her at this stage.

What did Hoopla say that was convincing?

SS makes the most sense as a player who would try to kill a town-you N1. but SS also makes sense as a player who i suspect would consider no-killing N1 given his adeptness regarding mechanics/strategy.

How is that compelling? All it takes is one person on the scumteam saying that Menalque is a strong player for the scum to attack him. Just because peta isn't familiar with him doesn't mean nobody on his team is.

man i hated these infinity posts at the time

[petapan]

okay i finished my iso of smart and i just think i'm going to stay where i am

there's some little things that bother me, like how he maybe gives little nudges toward whatever wagon was going on but never really commits to anything fully but today he often feels relatable. stuff like 3582 and 3584. i'm going to be doing some more digging.

[petapan]

pooky i really do want to talk with you because you're likely to be a critical vote here and i think by role you're very likely to be town and so i want to try and communicate

i'm digging a little bit on menalque right now

[petapan]

the assurance is nice but i want to just feel like i can spill my guts and hear your thoughts on the overall game. i am lonely in this game

[petapan]

i'm burrowing through menalque's meta right now. i'm trying to find instances of him leaning on the reads of the dead to the extent he's attempted to this game, including eliminated players.

this is from mini normal 2163:

veng

well unless i think if town they will make a stupid veng kill. yds . The fact he claims to scum read yds means his reads are awful if he inst scum. Like a vig who kills town 3 times in row. You dont want to give them any chance to kill more town

the poe should only be osuka, dmath, bob , plus.

Any risk to that then, yes i will be against killing a claimed veng. Kill him last even if he is scum

And if my poe is wrong. Then im as wrong as anyone this game.

As the wagon gamestate just doesnt make sense unless there is 2 scum in dmath, osuka, plus

I don’t think bob retracts from this and now that he’s conftown I’m inclined to listen to this

Honestly if bob could just present as town he’d be a really strong player, I think his hunting is >average but he continuously fails to communicate well and comes across super scummy because of it

mena was scum, bob's reads were wrong, he'd voted to eliminate him the prior day. granted, this is the only instance i can find of him doing something like this but the extent to which he's leaned into reads of the dead this game feels manipulative. i certainly can't find him leaning that hard on dead player reads as town. it especially bothers me because, obviously, skitter was wrong on at least 1 of her townreads and yet he's been trying to use her reads like a sword. can't get over the push on lilith's slot today either even after it was confirmed there was no doc. or the way he dragged me back onto dunnstral when dunn's logic had been similar to his own. he gives me the feeling more than the other two that he's get people to do his bidding to move them, hustle them. i want to stand by mmy feelings here regardless of how much emotional appeals he puts out.

i realize there's a certain irony in citicizing his sheeping the dead play when i'm telling people to sheep me if i'm eliminated but whatever

[petapan]

infinity getting frustrated with me not playing ball with him gave me kind of townvies i think

[petapan]

also menalque just keeps pointing at dave and going "dave post bad" but the thing is from what i can tell - dave is super placid as scum, him getting pissy only seems to happen in town games when people don't follow his idea of optimal mechanical play. this seems to happen fairly often. but, you know, if someone's posting

unusually

, point at it, yell, and call it scummy, that's how it goes. but it doesn't look like scum rage here

[petapan]

final answer is menalque if i end up getting hammered while i'm asleep

[petapan]

alright, for better or for worse, i'm locked in with infinity & mena, and choose the peta side of this 1v1.

VOTE: peta

for a little commentary:

i still somehow find mena's frazzled energy when he comes under extreme heat quite townie. i think there's something to be said for that. as for peta, i find his reactions under pressure more confusing. he seems to largely rely on wifom defences of:

"oh, this specific thing? i would never do that as scum. i have been thinking about the game a lot, here is X, Y, Z why i wouldn't do it"

.

like yeah, it's probably suboptimal to link yourself so obviously with dave if he's scum, but if we rewind to the start of this day before massclaim, dave & peta were two top candidates that would have been high in people's collective solves. he would have had to do

something

to avoid the walls of PoE closing in.

making a proactive move to link each other together to muddy PoE isn't a bad play - it's a good distancing trick in a late game to confuse the PoE and attempt to win the game in 7p ELo. having said that, i'd say this play is quite unlikely for most and not worth really considering, but peta seems canny enough (especially given his history as scum). it also needs to be mentioned that it's possible peta can make this play while dave is town too. i think everyone is quickly jumping to that conclusion, but it's not a slamdunk pairing.

i don't know. when i see stuff like this:

but i came into the day with a clear idea of what the mechanics around claims were and doing a watcher claim that ties me to dave is pretty much the worst one i could make

all i get from this, is that it proves he's been thinking about the setup/mechanics a lot. and scum are more likely to be thinking about the setup a lot overnight last night. if he's scum the above quote^ carries a bitterness about not reaping the amount of credit he thought he deserved for such a play.

you know hoopla has written a tome to justify each of her votes today and while having reasons isn't bad it feels almost

over-justified

in context, given how she's shifted it around so much - she's voted 3 different people but there's a wall each time. if it was just admitting to a compromise, i wouldn't really have a problem but she feels the need to act like she's so sure each time but starts to look less believable when you move around as much as she has

[petapan]

One vote this entire game s_s.

Must be hard to actually do something.

i don't have a lot to read you on this game but the thing where you were unsure of skitter's reasoning on smnart because she didn't explain it so you weren't going to necessarily sheep it was relatable because i had been thinking the same thing, i just hadn't said it. that's like my best towntell on you

[petapan]

it's not really a hard read, it's just a THING i noticed and felt compelled to point out, absent anything else. wasn't sure if i;'d mentioned it, but it felt worth mentioning. in general when someone says similar things to what i'm thinking before i say it, they're town. it's only one data point though, i can't really call it a strong read, i understand why you suspect him. but i'm just kind of dumping every raw thought i have into the thread. i would feel bad if i let this THING go unsaid

[petapan]

i don't know that...the entire group of 4s is a HARD read and i haven't had time to direct any attention there. i don't think best bird has a playstyle that makse him easily readable and i've had growing misgivings about hoopla but haven't had time to read there fully. the jv slot is a nonentity, and despitew what hoopla says, i don't necessarily townread it on role? i had guessed n_m was neighborizer on day 3, and that was why i had mentioned that tinfoil theory about uncrowned being the kill - if they felt they could no longer get any sway over uncrowned after jv replaced out, a kill there would make sense. i could see hoopla going the extra mile on wifom by doubling up with a teammate and then having the teammate take neighborizer while she hard defended them. i dunno. like none of them are

really

a strong townread to me so i need to mention stuff like that data point on best bird or hoopla giving me the heebie jeebies.

infinity, tell me - do you have difficulty maintaining your effort level as scum?

[petapan]

do you think you've played outside your scumrange this game?

[petapan]

all right. was feelijng that but wanted to hear it in your own words. whatever happens i'm choosing to trust you. mind talking about how you feel "so many people are towny on play/mechanics?"

[petapan]

say i get eliminated, flip town, where does your mind go next?

[petapan]

s_s/bird/lilith I guess

you really think there's any realistic possibility of a mafia nokill on night 1? i realize it's not impossible, but i think it takes a certain type of player to attempt such a play. i think that, if that team of players wanted to get rid of menalque, they'd simply kill him, rather than try to elaborately frame him

[petapan]

you know hoopla has written a tome to justify each of her votes today and while having reasons isn't bad it feels almost over-justified in context, given how she's shifted it around so much - she's voted 3 different people but there's a wall each time. if it was just admitting to a compromise, i wouldn't really have a problem but she feels the need to act like she's so sure each time but starts to look less believable when you move around as much as she has

generally speaking, i formulate my thoughts through writing. often times i don't know what i

actually

think until i write through it, as opposed to thinking of something first,

then

writing it down.

to spare the reader my wayward rambling, i'll usually trim the fat of any substantial post in a bid to be succinct. but i've definitely been favouring just posting as much of what comes to mind today, given it's such a confusing gamestate.

if not for a careful curtailing of instincts, i could easily have been a mastin in another timeline.

i get it but it does not make me trust you. wish that i could reread to put concrete words to those feelings, but i have probably run out of time for that. (you used to write a lot more, but the game has changed a lot over the years, as i've said. also i was only ever scum against you so i never had to actually read you)

[petapan]

in the last pyp game the mfia no-killed and there was discussion of it being a suboptimal move, something_smart was in that game. the situation was different, the scumteam was down to 1 member left, but i just dont see a nokill being a move he makes.

i don't trust either of your strong townreads and beg you to reconsider in the event i'm flipped. especially hoopla. anyway i think i'm done here for the night.

[petapan]

vote count 2.06

Menalque (6)

: lilith2013, Infinity 324, JacksonVirgo, Hoopla, Dunnstral, TheGoldenParadox

TheGoldenParadox (2)

: Uncrowned, PenguinPower

JacksonVirgo (1)

: petapan

Infinity 324 (1)

: Menalque

Not voting

: davesaz, Something_Smart, skitter30

Deadline: (expired on 2020-11-13 13:00:00)

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to eliminate.

mod notes

:
- skitter30 v/la fridays & saturdays
- JacksonVirgo v/la til 06/11/2020
- quack

[petapan]

it occurs that i was probably too soft in my questioning and hould have pressed more but i'm tired both physically and of this game and just kind of, wanted to chat. thank you anyway

[petapan]

I have absolutely no regrets about killing DGB and Dunn even if we lose

In fact, I think towns losing is actively good when there are multiple players who are half assing the game, and it puts pressure on those left to get better. You either need everyone to actually play as opposed to like, a bit over half the PL (what happened here), or you need to have town who are really really good (better than me by a lot) who are able to sort the lurksack do-nothing-all-game townslots accurately

i still feel like i screwed them and it's my fault, dunn was abit of a policy but dgb was because i can't read emotion for shit and get it wrong, first time i've ever seen the reaction of someone thinking they're hammered come from town and not just be scum faking it

[petapan]

i read the posts but don't really have it in my head to formulate a response right now

[petapan]

temped to suggest a last minute flashwagon even though i know it's 1. probably a bad idea 2. will make me look bad

[petapan]

Lilith thought I was scum, although I’m not totally sure how much that had to do with the cop gambit I was pulling last time she was in thread

And cool, does that mean you’re TRing me then?

I’m saying that I want to see arguments based off of play and by itself Dave’s reason isn’t enough to decide my vote. I need to see arguments on Peta as well.

~N

menalque came into today pushing to essentially quick-eliminate your slot without anyone claiming and it gave me the impression he was scum trying to hustle us especially given it was revealed there was no doctor so your role is the only explanation for the missing kill you can read starting from here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12334413

[petapan]

understand that your slot had been under heavy suspicion all game because lilith wasn't really active and was likely an easy elimination

[petapan]

dude that's fucking ridiculous

[petapan]

Peta how would u feel about addressing some of these points

i'll try to get to it but i don't know how useful further back and forth is going to be

[petapan]

i don't know that i'd play it this way as scum but my concern was that

you're

doing that to me. i think the main problem is yu still suspec lilith slot and dave and i just...have no interest in executing those people

anyway i need to go eat lunch

[petapan]

i'm paying attention i just

ugh

[petapan]

feels like a very bad decision b/c i dont see a team there but i mihgt do it anyawy

[petapan]

Peta, simple question: would you feel worse losing to scum!me or to scum!smart?

i just hate losing period but there was the ugly voice in the back of my head where if its not you its himn and for a lot of the game he has been scummy

[petapan]

lmfao

[petapan]

this is potentially going to be a very bad decision

[petapan]

VOTE: something_smart

[petapan]

Why @peta

because i don't know if i think menalque is scum anymore

[petapan]

we barely have the numbers for you or peta, let alone SS. i'm not in favour of fracturing the town again at the 11th hour for a hail mary play.

how is that any moire true for him than it is for ether of us

[petapan]

i mean if anything your vote is doing less on me now

[petapan]

i'm town and i don't know if i made a legendarily bad move or a legendarily good one but i think i was drawn to the drama

[petapan]

I’m here, not particularly happy about this turn of events but it’s better than mena I suppose

I’ll hammer with 2 hours left or something just in case S&M want to do something

PEdit: yeah S&M are scum

with who?

[petapan]

pooky what's up

[petapan]

like infinity smoke&mirrors being scum doesnt add up unless theyre scum with exactly smart here, right? bc otherwise they just hammer

[petapan]

just speak to me haert to heart please

[petapan]

pooky did you know a friend of mine once said i am easily manipulated

[petapan]

VOTE: menalque


im so so so so fcuking sorry if this is wrong