Micro 983 | The Council: Student Council Edition! | The End!

[Infinity 324]

I’m green/white and aspire to be blue

Or do you wanna talk about how in my thread where I talk about playstyles, you post you're aspiring to be blue, but the play I'm suggesting is what any blue player will do 9 times out of 10 and that you saying I'm lining up an elim on you is NOT what a blue player would do.

You wanna talk about that as well?

I’m bad at being blue, is one answer

[Infinity 324]

The fact that you’re so sure I’m scum today after you tried so hard to pocket me yesterday and failed is hilarious.

[Infinity 324]

So what, do you just not think before you post?

I don’t always, but I will explain more when murder does his thing

[Infinity 324]

You also wanna talk about hwo you didn't talk Taly's approach in goodfaith?
You wanna talk about that too?

He asked me to ask him questions. I didn’t really have anything to ask him, but I did anyway because he wanted me too. What are you on about?

[Infinity 324]

You also wanna talk about hwo you didn't talk Taly's approach in goodfaith?
You wanna talk about that too?

He asked me to ask him questions. I didn’t really have anything to ask him, but I did anyway because he wanted me too. What are you on about?

1366 feels like stretching to find reasons for reads.

I saw something I found scummy and pointed it out.

I’m pretty sure gamma is town and the fact that everyone finds him suspicious now and not yesterday is weirding me the hell out. He’s not trying to look town anywhere and his approach is very natural IMO.

[Infinity 324]

I'm here and don't have much to say? I don't have paranoia on murder anymore, I really feel like it's tracy/purple still.

[Infinity 324]

Oh yeah. This.

went even further to inquiry about this take to people they scumread and townread.

This is a super weak reason to townread someone, asking questions about people's thoughts is super easy to do as scum

They also literally did not have to take me up on my offer in questioning me or even responding to my posts toward them because this slot replaced in with a reasonably articulated level of suspicion. I don't see how scum progresses like this because I find it doubtful that this setup - one that encourages townhunting - would evaluate a slot on their personal merits rather than construct and emphasize a narrative that asserted a potential mislim.

This also feels like he was trying to find a reason to TR me, I don't know why just engaging with taly's posts get's a TR.

I also think it's exploitative to try and influence his thoughts much further on the reads he is trying to resolve at the moment.

If taly was worried about being exploitative towards me, he wouldn't have let alisae play the way e did yesterday. I don't buy this.

This is slightly a soulread. I don't want to go too much in depth with this right now. I really enjoyed their conversation with

Alisae

and they're one of the players outlining thoughts that aren't as voiced in as much volume as others in this game.

Gamma

is someone I have even more game experience with than

Alisae (if you remove the mindmelding that comes with being a hydra)

and I get the impression that they're solving. I'd like to see them in a hood.

A lot of words to say not much explanation. It's fine to not go in depth on a read but this feels like he added content for content's sake.

But what I would like for people to do is evaluate my posts instead of labeling this slot as lockscum due to 1/2 of the heads. I get the impression that people are dismissing my input in favor of asserting an easier read on

Alisae

but we're both the same alignment. It feels easier and noncommittal to criticize only half of the mindset of this slot even though one head has a higher volume of posts that have garnered valid criticism. I support

Alisae's

self-assessment because I have been familiar with their progression and mentality on this site for years, and while their approach may be soundly assessed as manipulative or agenda-based, I haven't concluded their approach themselves as a concrete alignment. But the previous statement merely clouds other people's judgment on the slot, so I want people to take an active approach to this head rather than speak around this head for a stronger solve and idea on my POV.

I did the same thing pretty much and taly doesn't call me out for it? And this also feels weird in the context of taly not talking to alisae and telling em to calm down.

I get barely anything out of this long post.

Murder talk to me.

[Infinity 324]

You talked about how some of my actions could make sense from a scum perspective. Cool. You can make a story to justify almost anything. What you barely touched on is how my actions are unlikely to make sense from a town perspective. Just a couple places where you say my behavior doesn't make a ton of sense from town--

Wrt heal tags, I wanted to see if other people would support my uncrowned TR so we could potentially get him onto the council. Sorta like a vanity vote. I didn't really expect it to go anywhere, but I wanted something a bit more official than "I TR uncrowned"

Originally, my plan for the council was for us to not doc me since I was such an obvious target. To discourage purple from killing me, I made it super obvious of my SR there. Maybe it wasn't the right play? I'm not sure. But obviously it's correct to not give scum info about who you're planning on doccing, and the fact that alisae tried to get info from me about that is clearly scum-motivated. I said I aspire to be blue, and I'm certainly not perfect about it--a lot of time I say things because they cross my mind as town, without a direct purpose. The fact that alisae goes from aspiring to be blue -> must mean he never says anything he shouldn't as town is super suspicious. My play also doesn't make sense from a blue scum player's perspective, so this whole thing about the MD post makes no sense.

I feel like alisae is only pushing me here because that's the only way e can get rid of me. E tried to get information from me at the end of d1 about who I was thinking about doccing, but decided on a safe flea kill since I didn't reveal my thought process

too

much. I don't necessarily think scum on the council kills someone on the council, since it is pretty risky. (esp. if the other council member is agreed on as town) However, I definitely think a kill outside the council makes sense if no scum is on the council.

[Infinity 324]

murder I actually think reasonates to me as mono blue

I didn't fully read your post but this is what I want to be just based on magic
I might be red/blue though I think it depends on how the game develops
I still want to go read that post when I am in the mood to think deeply about it
I'm waiting to see more from Infinity in regards to your wall as well

I feel like you have a lot of green in you as well! Though maybe it's just because I have good synergy with you that I've experienced the green side

[Infinity 324]

Why did you want something a bit more official than "I TR Uncrowned"

Cause I wanted to stick out a bit! and draw attention to it.

How does saying nothing give information to scum about who you are doccing?

It doesn't. But I still wanted my SR to be prominent and in the thread just in case. Yeah maybe it was wrong, when I see something scummy I'm really biased towards just saying it. But it's what I did, and you still haven't explained why it's more likely from aspiring blue scum than aspiring blue town who made a mistake. "Aspiring" means I'm not quite there yet.

It really doesn't feel like ali is trying to analyze my motivations, feels like e is just creating a narrative and then saying "but I could be wrong!" at the end of it.

@Noraa I'm good with you being on the council but I really don't want purple on it. That's my only request.

[Infinity 324]

Murder do you not feel like gamma is being set up when everyone started the day SRing him? Yeah some of those players are town but it's a lot more likely that some are scum.

[Infinity 324]

So why are you saying I'm trying to get information out of you about who you want to doc?

If my gameplan was to set a lynch up on you, wouldn't it be better for you to shut up, wait to see what the kill was, and then see what I do at the start of the next phase?

@Purple Cause it could give scum info on who we’re going to doc?

how can you give information about something you haven't decided on yet?

I guess. I just like getting my thoughts out there so they’re in the thread. It’s more of a risk for scum!you to NK me if my SR on you is very visible.

if you're that worried about that insist on being protected.

^ especially this one. If I say "I don't want to be docced tonight", scum can just...shoot me. Yeah there's wine involved but then I have to come up with a totally different plan which is...not great.

[Infinity 324]

Murder do you not feel like gamma is being set up when everyone started the day SRing him? Yeah some of those players are town but it's a lot more likely that some are scum.

You would have to convince me why flea kills purple and not you then

Cause I might get docced and then be semi-confirmed town

[Infinity 324]

Murder do you not feel like gamma is being set up when everyone started the day SRing him? Yeah some of those players are town but it's a lot more likely that some are scum.

You would have to convince me why flea kills purple and not you then

Cause I might get docced and then be semi-confirmed town

Whats the difference between shooting a player who was protected by a doc and not killing

Nothing? Except you don't know who gets docced so no killing is bad?

About expressing my scumread on you at the end of d1, I've repeated my argument a few times and don't know what else to say. I maybe shouldn't have done it, but since I wasn't planning on protecting myself I thought I'd make sure my opinion was prominent in the thread.

PEdit: yeah, it was an unlikely doc target though so that's why they chose it. If scum went for a weird kill like that we were never going to get the save off.

[Infinity 324]

Nothing? Except you don't know who gets docced so no killing is bad?

Correct! The difference is nothing.
If scum do not want to give the council information, they may not want to participate, and thus, they can no kill.

If multiple nights pass where no one dies, what do you think that means Infinity?

It means scum are trying to play 7:2 mountainous nightless which is super townsided

PEdit: that relies on convincing the other member, and it's not a clear. But it's possible scum would've done that

[Infinity 324]

I guess the other "get something out of it" is to reduce pressure if it seems like Flea is going to come after you and to be fair to Infinity we should consider that as well

Right. And I don't think flea was actually a likely elim target? Like they seemed town to me, and didn't seem to be under a lot of suspicion. Idk though.

[Infinity 324]

purple

Though I'm wondering why they didn't just kill kookie now tbh

[Infinity 324]

I think you're town but trying to work through stuff. I'm having a hard time seeing...almost any of ali's read progressions from town though.

[Infinity 324]

Ali's read progression on me is bullshit

Most of these quotes I don't even need to explain but I'll talk about some of them

Spoiler:

Infinity 324 - I could actually see myself making an arguement for this slot being any alignment so I might take another look after I sleep. I mostly do agree with koba's comments on the slot when I read them but I can see a town!infinity sorting the slot and coming to the conclusions that they came to. I honestly just need to re-read the slot with a clear mind honestly. That or just sheep whatever conculsion Taly comes to so I don't have to

That’s what gut is for

thats super believable bro.
Totally a 100% natural read that may or may not be agenda based

At least with Infinity he maybe seems like he wants to be right?
That’s like, a point in his favor?
You on the other hand literally do not care.

I do think I’ve been a bit lazy with this game today and I want to re-evaluate a bit. I have only played with town noraa once before, but I keep getting worried since she looks so towny here and normally doesn’t as town lol. I would like alisae to go into depth on a read because he has trouble faking depth as scum iirc.

I actually think her scumread our slot is fine. I don't think anything me and Taly can pump out right away will invalidate her read on koba.

I think the biggest difference between town!noraa and scum!noraa is I feel like scum!noraa will want to paint our slot scummy using whatever means possible and saying I'm overeacting does that. I think to noraa saying that me overeacting is scummy allows her to maintain an ironclad reason to scumread me. If she was town, why would she continue pressing me for overeacting when I told her that I act like this all of the time? This doesn't make sense to me.

Alisae sees a pocket opportunity and takes it.

Infinity truth is, I panic a lot when I get scumread as both alignments I can give you links but tbh I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the two at a point.
atm I have no idea what's going on.

Like in my rant to taly I literally posted this before I started posting again in thread

Yo I actually have no idea what the fuck is happening in this game anymore tbh
Is it infinity who is pushing me for his 503 because that’s not how scum actually act and for every scum player who acts that way a town player can also act that way
Is it noraa for calling my playstyle scummy when she literally replaced into a town slot I was in where I was doing the exact same things?
Is it flea or Overworld for just being non-contributors and letting town kill itself?
Is it that one dude who wrote 420 for TMIing us town?

Like I honestly just have no idea whats going on atm so please be patient for me. As of writing this I think its noraa because calling me scum for overeacting just seems way too unnatural for it to be town.

Trying to appeal to me, e does this in a bunch of other places as well.

Why is Infinity trying to break up the fight between me and noraa? It may be calculated but why would he do that? How does it benefit him? And what's his gameplan? Who do you think he's going to want to vote if he's scum?

Ur right infinity I’m honestly being obnoxious right now

Seems to be hearing my requests to back off, which indicates that I'm town to em.

Then e doesn’t correct me, but immediately pulls out a nuanced read (not impossible from town but still) and flips eir read on me and starts to TR me.

I don't see why either alignment corrects you tbh. If I'm scum, its obviously better for me to not correct you, but if I'm town, I feel like it doesn't matter? Also you were asking me to go in depth on a read.

I can explain me flipping my read on you though, I think the way you approached my slot compared to noraa was a lot better in that while you still seemed like you scumread me at the time, it felt as if your mind was fairly open. I think in general the whole way you approached me and noraa was kinda townie and I feel like the real time interactions with you are good enough to not warrant revisiting the early pages of the game.

Hopefully that helps you out?

Well whatever if I had to pick 1 person to decide the council I’m picking Infinity.

Noraa if you think infinity’s paranoia is fake, what do you think of his reason to be paranoid.

I dont know what the paranoia is supposed to mean atm. His reasons to be paranoid are fair and I could see a townie being paranoid for those exact reasons.

The reason why it gives me pause is because paranoia is a townie thing that I used to love to exaggerate as scum. I dont really do that much anymore but it used to be a scum tell so naturally, I always raise my eyebrows a bit when I see it.

-nornor

It doesn’t feel that exaggerated to me.

Infinity are you scum?

The only reason why I can see you leaving me out of the council is if you want to kill me

Only when I get paranoid on em does e consider that I could be scum. But then decides I'm not a viable push d1:

Fine Infinity.
I’ll stop giving you a hard time.
I think I may have just misunderstood that or something tbh

Like, Infinity I feel like I'm having a hard time believing that Flea is saying I'm flailing in good faith

t also feels like ali’s reads leave em open to pushing whoever e wants later,

my reads aren't as open as you think they are
I can't even turn

you

gamma into viable pushes

lol

You know what
If OutWorldER flips town
I’ll sleep on it Uncrowned

To sort you because I have no idea what you're doing if you're town tbh.
I feel like the wait and see approach is far better then pushing me for "maybe" setting you up as an elim during twilight.

I said "At best, I'm setting up an infinity elimination" because at the start of D2, I could maybe not be interested in eliminating you, I could be interested in something else.
Or you could get shot
Or a ton of different possibilities.

Now e is back to potentially pushing me. Notice that the original reason for this is uncrowned pointing out the pile on to outworlder, but e doesn't bring that up again until the big case.

The fact that you’re so sure I’m scum today after you tried so hard to pocket me yesterday and failed is hilarious.

I mean
idunno
The game makes sense for you to be scum.
Its the only thing I can think of

The confidence doesn't make sense here given the amount of times e's changed eir mind on me this game. The conflict in alisae's head isn't here, it's just opportunism. (Now that I say this, ali will come up with a huge internal conflict in eir head after the fact. Point being, it doesn't make sense that it wasn't there in the first place).

Like I don't see how this is ever town, it just seems like scum who got backed into a corner and is maneuvering out.

I'm good with murder's council and a tracy elim if I can't convince people that I'm town/purple is scum though.

[Infinity 324]

One more thing related to the MtG playstyle thread. One of the things in there associated with white is “the player who never catches a deepwolf”. Since I’m associated with white and have had trouble catching deep wolves, it would be so poetic if this was the game where I finally caught a deepwolf, and alisae was the deepwolf in question.

[Infinity 324]

This is a nitpick, why are you isolating my reasons behind a read on you instead of looking at the full picture? The context behind the post emphasized why I felt this reason was valid.

What about the context behind it made that different?

[Infinity 324]

Because Koba was a suspected slot and regardless of successors, the suspicion of a predecessor tainting how players view that slot happens a lot.

You seem to disagree with alisae on this—e thinks that approaching a slot differently upon a replacement is scummy. In any case, I can see why you said this but the read is a bit easy. It’s not too hard to re-evaluate a slot on replacement as scum, especially if I thought you were difficult to elim.

[Infinity 324]

I was MIA around post 1400 which was the majority of Twilight. If you're referring to EoD, I wasn't present to gatekeep Alisae... also, that's not my primary interest as a head playing with them. I take all of their thoughts with good faith because they're the most trustworthy source to me in this game.

I guess? I just feel like alisae was being super manipulative for all of d1 (especially with the “leaving me to die” shit) and letting alisae do that while saying this felt contradictory.

[Infinity 324]

1) I thought this was clear... I was directing this to Flea but referenced the playerlist in the italicized, here...

Sorry about that, I missed the context of this I think. Tbh I don’t think all of your posts are incredibly scummy, but I think ali is very scummy, and I thought koba was scummy, so that’s good enough for me. I pointed out 1366 because I thought it was a scummy post, and I didn’t think going into a whole case would be useful? Also not sure what you mean by “the council heals you disagree with”, since I think gamma is town and I know I am.

[Infinity 324]

Murder I’m upset

I thought I caught scum but they’re playing too well and no one wants to elim them

[Infinity 324]

Hmm?

[Infinity 324]

I feel like e’s trying to use everything e can to get me limmed. And the logic of it makes absolutely 0 sense, e’s saying that I played in a not-blue way but that’s not even relevant to my alignment.

[Infinity 324]

I feel like e’s trying to use everything e can to get me limmed. And the logic of it makes absolutely 0 sense, e’s saying that I played in a not-blue way but that’s not even relevant to my alignment.

Would scum!Ali NEED to use everything e can get eir hands on?

Yeah, cause I was pretty widely TRed on d1. Also it makes em look more town to do so.

[Infinity 324]

Gamma is town

[Infinity 324]

What do you think of kookie?

HEAL: uncrowned
HEAL: gamma

[Infinity 324]

I’m quite confident the council was all town

[Infinity 324]

who do you SR infinity

I think it’s purple/tracy. If I’m wrong, I’d guess kookie.

[Infinity 324]

I’ll try to find specifics tomorrow, but he’s approaching the game very naturally and not trying to look town. I also thought the emotion on the last couple pages was quite genuine.

[Infinity 324]

Honestly I feel pretty good about my reads this game, I’m gonna do my best to listen to other people’s thoughts but I ask that they do the same.

[Infinity 324]

Noraa talk to me about your gamma SR?

[Infinity 324]

But soulread

[Infinity 324]

Spoiler: my gamma read

I have a soulread on gamma this game somehow. Gamma is never scum here.

What does it say if he flips town vs. scum?

Read: you promised solvy flareon and I’m not getting it

Even if you were 100% town, I feel a lot more comfortable with this game with you putting more effort into it

why do u literally go around and shade every single person here?
Like I did it but it was a joke. urs are not.

town!you doesn't act like this. Fos on Infinity.
Ur way too paranoid. Ur throwing way too much shade. I will need to start paying more attention to you from now on.

-nornor

Idk. The two times I played with town!murder he was transparently town to me. That didn’t happen in death curse at first but it happened eventually in ELo. He keeps saying he’ll reread but hasn’t done so yet. I’m worried is all I’m saying. Anyway I’m confident uncrowned and gamma are town, and I’m relatively confident in flea as well. I’m not shading everyone, just paranoid on certain slots.

If u think im scum then gamma scum makes little sense? Lol

Someone brought up Open 799....lol

and so?

You bussed the shit out of your partner there, you could be bussing here

Not that I think it's particularly likely, gamma's posting has felt pretty natural to me so far. But having SRs on you and gamma is not incompatible at all.

I got a few townvibes from him but idk. I’m not really sure how to read gamma.

HEAL: Purple
HEAL: Infinity
HEAL: Gamma

I like gamma’s casual-ness to approaching reads, whereas he tried to look town more in haunted village. I have some paranoia wrt uncrowned and haven’t solidified my outworlder read, so I’m actually most comfortable with gamma as my second strongest TR.

Order got messed up cause I’m on my phone but yeah

I’ll see if I can find quotes

[Infinity 324]

Yeah I’ll get to it I’m just being lazy

[Infinity 324]

Yeah I don’t think so. I have the slightest bit of paranoia on you but mostly tracy just has to be scum here.

VOTE: tracy

[Infinity 324]

Spoiler: gamma

u know I've heard the term beetlejuice but never experienced it before

I really feel like Dk is shading me and Infinity out of a place of need rn

Say it. A need of what.

A need to put us down now before something else resolves.

We were all in bending together which was ongoing at the time, and while I don't agree with this take, it feels towny to point out.

idk about flea as scum, kinda thought they've been towny
but beyond that your reads and your thoughts seem good on a "yeah this makes sense as a thought process" level

What do you think has been towny from them? Honestly its possible I just missed something

A certain level of inquisitiveness I've seen. It's probably me who's being surface-level here honestly tho

This feels like how I approach light townvibes a lot. People's posts give me a good feeling, but it's hard to pinpoint and I doubt myself.

I think I probably won't be able to find you if you are scum so i decided to just act as if you are town. It gives me a starting point for the day at least

probably a town mindset (for MCat specifically)

I agree, good take

ftr my scumvibes on dk were waning before they replaced out, ali has reduced those vibes to a speck practically

Kind of a silly reason, but talking about vibes as a "speck" feels like a genuine way to approach a read.

That Purple Heart post, after fully reading it, feels towny. The base sentiments are NAI, but it seems unfiltered in a way that makes it towny

Scum would probably post similar sentiments in a way that comes off as frustrated, that one seems legit distraught.

Looks he's trying to really sort between fake vs. real emotion

Gamma I liked uncrowned’s engagement with me on the last page, what do you think

@Infinity eh I don’t know about all that, I’m forming my own thoughts here rn

Idk how to explain this, but this felt super +town to me. Gamma does like to do his own thing, and his response of being mildly annoyed with me kinda getting in the way of him pushing on uncrowned felt very genuine.

I remember you making to tsow comment before PH came in
But you didn’t cling to that take so it’s not suspicious at all probably.

He keeps noticing things like this and not using them to push anything. I don't see why scum would do that.

I'd first like to apologize for being a sook D1 and for how I interacted with Noora. I don't come into games intending to cause issues. I had a stressful couple of days and shouldn't have overreacted and tried to use the game to vent my frustration. That was wrong.

Now for the game. Flea is an interesting selection. Surface level NKA points to Purple potentially wanting that slot dead judging by end of day interactions between the two of them, I think? Will have to peep into that ISO a little more.

Kinda wanna TR this. Feel like scum in this position might be more contrite? There'd be more spectacle about apologizing about bringing RL in imo.

I agree and this feels like town trying to explain a gut read

why so down on gamma? Didn't you vote him onto the council?

no, the only person i voted for council was you. well other than myself. gamma emerald behaviour change with purple heart entrance feels not right to me.

again, bad timing. I had been operating on some meta re: my Dk read and had started to rethink it just before Dk replaced out

Consistent progression from 659 and 744. He clearly had koba's meta at the back of his mind but didn't say too much about it. This is a strong towntell for me.

the lazy part comes from you also writing off purple/noraa as TvT like you did, as well as saying you "solved" the game. I KNOW you didn't solve it, so you're just lazily tossing out a set of reads that make SOME sense and calling it a legitimate solve. So that should also answer why I can think your read on me is reasonable but also think you're being lazy, too. The "change" is pretty much me focusing more on your read on me vs. you're overall solve.

This and the whole interaction with uncrowned felt pretty genuine

[Infinity 324]

The koba/purple slot's garbage tracy read:

Spoiler:

Nah this is like 3 of 3 I'm in with Taylor, this is bog standard taylor at this point Pretty sure MCs response is standard too ^_^

by nai i meant not alignment indicative; as in, i have seen taylor swift troll in a similar manner as both alignments.

This is towny. When i see people like take a behavior of someone else and label it NAI its like usually town motivated.

tracy - doesnt seem like a strong scumhunty sort at all. was sus at the start from their early mechposting but the way they reacted to the pressure was town.

u know im not understanding much of what ur sayign but im still getting good vibes from the posts themselves

LOL koba is not this naive

tracy flick - Their interactions with people seem really natural and to me it feels as if they're really trying to figure out the motivations of the other players.

As for

Tracy

, I liked 74 because giving meta without much input is the only non-manipulative or biased way to give the opportunity for reading someone in depth.

Note to look into that more.

I don't think she's given much context to her reads or ideas beyond the mechanical discussion, so I want to know your idea here as well

Flea

.

Honestly Tracy came off to me as someone who was just doing their own thing

Put in tracker requests now I guess

Track Tracy

Put in tracker requests now I guess

Track Tracy

Explained by this beauty:

The way I see Tracy, I wanted you to track her.
My mindset on the slot is I can think of a lot of reasons why she's scum.
- She basically got a free pass and no one really talked about the slot or thought about it.
- Hammer can be a scum hammer.

However, there is somethings I can say that make me feel like Tracy could be town, and this is the most important thing ot me.

From Tracy's POV, I don't think she's really aligned with anyone?
Like she really comes across as just doing her own thing to me.

You know what Murder
I'll throw you a bone.

Noraa, Uncrowned, Murder
Tracy
Gamma, Infinity

Somehow a null read now

Tracy/Gamma

I can agree with the points that

Tracy

has only been active in relation to a few conversations right now, but I'm still not too convinced that the non-guilty was a way to innocent her slot for two reasons:

1)

She wasn't a slot that caught attention and nobody really discussed her hammer throughout Twilight, despite how flippant it seemed.

2)

Very few slots took issue with

Gamma's

council but slots as

Noraa/Uncrowned

weren't convinced of the reads there, if

Gamma/Tracy

were true, what does it serve

Gamma

to try and innocent

Tracy

when the thread's progression is to question counciling him in the first place?

With the plan to track

Tracy

and make the assumption that a non-guilty was planned to innocent her via scum-in-council feels like confbias.

My initial take with

Tracy

being a townlean was that she seemed unconcerned with the POVs that the plist had with her and she was transparent with her thought processes via meta and mechanics. The chart she created, while not so clear, did not feel something I'd seen anybody do before? I'm going ISO map

Tracy

and evaluate her more critically.

And what
are we just murdering tracy based on the logic of murdering OutWorldER?

honestly
seems like the same player to me tbh

like whats the difference?

This is all of the slot's posting on tracy. It's not good. Lim this when tracy flips scum.

[Infinity 324]

The koba/purple slot's garbage tracy read:

This is all of the slot's posting on tracy. It's not good. Lim this when tracy flips scum.

Okay what the fuck do you actually expect?
On D1 they didn't post much if at all when I repped in.
Like what?

I expected you to not continuously TR her for awful reasons? Like having null reads is ok.

[Infinity 324]

I could post all of the other player's D1 posting on tracy and also argue "its not good"

No one else is making excuses to TR her/not lim her. And it was koba too which is the weirdest part.

PEdit: I saw that and will respond tomorrow probably

[Infinity 324]

sigh

Why am I scum

[Infinity 324]

@kookie Any interest in a tracy wagon?

[Infinity 324]

It’s mostly PoE for me, and purple and their predecessor keep TRing her for shitty reasons.

[Infinity 324]

I literally just posted a whole spoiler with quotes of you townreading her? Literally, I’m playing board games with my family and posting because I’m bored in between turns. This game is taking up way too much of my time and energy for a micro and I’m kinda over it.

[Infinity 324]

I mean you clearly don’t want to elim her now. And koba and taly definitely expressed townreads on her in a couple spots.

[Infinity 324]

If you just said that I’d be ok with it but it feels like you were making up bad reasons.

[Infinity 324]

Spoiler: response to taly

Infinity/Gamma

can you BOTH validate this account?

Yep, murder did a bunch of solving, and me and murder basically talked about how to out-wine the scum.

1)

1109 Paranoia EoD was directed at half of the plist even though he kept with the

OWER

vote. 1313

Yeah I had TRs on murder, tracy, and flea at the time so outworlder made sense

(The change from 1583 EoD1 of that slot being potential town to now also pings me.)

The fuck? This was wine, I literally said I was wining a couple posts earlier. I wanted scum to send tracy to do the kill

3)

Murder

was in his council but

Infinity

, while seeming to work with him a lot here 1718 1768 1778 1810 etc..., is not forming council involving

Murder

. 1906 This is a very weak point and the most recent one, maybe this is confbias, but it's something that vexes me specifically. I don't know what my other head thinks here.

Murder is my 3rd strongest TR but I'm not 100% sure on him yet.

My take on your progression here was around the fact that it was a unique reply to the 1v1 as nobody else had considered it TvT at the time. I agree that it was one of my weaker reasons to townread you, but my issue is that you didn't look at the rest of the sentence when you commented on it.

I guess I just don't agree that the context makes it more likely to be town. I looked at the rest of the sentence, but I didn't comment on it because it didn't seem relevant.

The bolded feels icky to me because you don't seem to be evaluating my posts unless it suits your read based on

Ali

or on

Koba

, and that's an easy angle to push without having to explain yourself.

Look, all 3 of you share the same alignment. If I see scummy things from your slot, that makes me more likely to think you are scum. Whether it be from alisae, or koba, or you. I am evaluating your posts, just in the context of you having to share an alignment with ali/koba.

I'm not asking for a huge wall debunking or 1v1ing

Alisae

on their case 1781 but you're not addressing it even though you targeted their read progression and this was a big shift to it. 1849

I addressed it in 1797, and I'm not going to address it more than that. The case doesn't explain the read progression because it came out of nowhere after both of you were TRing me for almost all of d1. It looks like ali was justifying a SR on me in order to discredit my SR on your slot.

2016, I don't follow your take, you're mainly just requoting mine and

Ali's

posts.

Um, they're all bad reasons to TR/not elim tracy

[Infinity 324]

now i wanna see

Infinity/Gamma

validate your 2061 haha

It wasn't only mech talk, but a lot of it was discussing possible track/protect targets. The first post was a long post about who hadn't voted for each other for council and who likely scumteams could be as a result.

i dont trust your reason for the wagon because i think thats a method of you deflecting us.

What? There's no way you are getting limmed today, maybe if we get tracy we can get you later.

[Infinity 324]

purple>Gamma>mcat>tracy>uncrown>infinity

I don't like this readslist but I don't feel like arguing. Are you willing to compromise on tracy?

[Infinity 324]

GAMMA TALK TO ME

[Infinity 324]

Honestly I feel pretty good about my reads this game, I’m gonna do my best to listen to other people’s thoughts but I ask that they do the same.

[Infinity 324]

It wasn't only mech talk

Well that's what I saw MCat say

I can see why he said it couldn't have really been interpreted as pocketing. Except at the end where we had a playful interaction relating to my thought that scum!murder would never post 1575 as scum.

[Infinity 324]

I'm only ok with purple on the council if we elim tracy today.

[Infinity 324]

?

[Infinity 324]

We have 4 and a half days. We should be ok to find a compromise. I think uncrowned is a good option to be on the council, though johnny isn't going to like it.

[Infinity 324]

Why am I scum?

[Infinity 324]

Why am I scum?

because ur a delinquent and im an honour student

But you've been cheating on your tests...

[Infinity 324]

I'm just misunderstood...

[Infinity 324]

I might just call purple's bluff here. Though, if there's a chance to get a council without them on it, I'm gonna push for it.

PEdit: Only the asshole PE teacher uses that bathroom anyway.

[Infinity 324]

:O

[Infinity 324]

Whoa cool

[Infinity 324]

lol

[Infinity 324]

Gamma why am I scum?

[Infinity 324]

Purple would you support uncrowned on the council?

[Infinity 324]

why should I

Because both you and taly have him as a strong TR?

PEdit: what if you’re wrong on kookie

[Infinity 324]

I feel like you’re using the fear of not getting a council to stop me from finding a better compromise. We have time. Uncrowned, murder, kookie might have enough support.

[Infinity 324]

Infinity is dying today. Everyone is agreed on this right?

[Infinity 324]

No fucking way y'all are limming me and putting purple on the council.

[Infinity 324]

why would kookie support that council

They wouldn't. But you should.

I feel like you’re using the fear of not getting a council to stop me from finding a better compromise. We have time. Uncrowned, murder, kookie might have enough support.

why do you want uncrowned on the council so much? HM?

Because he's my second strongest TR?? Like what

[Infinity 324]

why should I

Because both you and taly have him as a strong TR?

PEdit: what if you’re wrong on kookie

I could be but I'm not sure I can be solid on thinking kookie is town rn. But like, I think the most sensible partner for kookie is you rn, so flipping you probably sorts them too?

So if I flip town, what do you think? I know you don’t SR purple but I want you to consider the possibility they’re scum here.

[Infinity 324]

Yeah just like murder “scum slipped” in death’s curse

[Infinity 324]

Noraa are you just gonna 3rd impostor by refusing to vote purple? I don’t think you’re scum but you’re being really close minded here.

[Infinity 324]

Wait why do you think purple is scum? For science

-RM

They tried to pocket me d1, and they flipped out when I didn’t want them on the council. Now are SRing me for no discernible reason. Their read progressions are super opportunistic. At the end of d1, they were trying to direct the track and get info about where were would doc.

[Infinity 324]

I agree with Mon. Infinity is just scum here.
His progression on my slot has been entirely nonexistent. I'm surprised he hasnt 180'd the TR on me but eh, he still scum regardless.

I started by TR’ing you, had some paranoia, and am now back to just TR’ing you. What?

[Infinity 324]

I am almost certain now that infinity and tracy aren't aligned with each other.

This worries me

I want murder back

[Infinity 324]

I'm worried purple is trying to set up a mislim on me if tracy flips green. Don't know who their partner would be in that case though.

[Infinity 324]

I was already convinced you were scum on d1. You're pretty clearly playing with an agenda to me. I'm just trying to find your partner.

PEdit: if only anyone would agree with that uncrowned

[Infinity 324]

Yeah ok Infinity/Uncrowned.

Ok so are you cool with gamma on the council?

[Infinity 324]

I was already convinced you were scum on d1. You're pretty clearly playing with an agenda to me. I'm just trying to find your partner.

PEdit: if only anyone would agree with that uncrowned

wait wait waaaaaait don't lie. day 1 I said purple was scum and everyone shamed me for it.

It took a bit for me to get there, but I got there eventually.

[Infinity 324]

Ok there's an easy solution. Put Murder, Purple, and I on the council. Track Purple. We'll be able to see if she's scum that way, no?

Only if we get scum today

[Infinity 324]

Only if we get scum today

yeah we lim u. we get scum.

Don't go "hurr durr idk what do to now" when I flip town. I want you to have a plan.

[Infinity 324]

mmm if u flip town, the team is basically just like Gamma/uncrowned.

Noraa, I really hate saying things like this. But my strong TR's are almost never wrong. I reread the interaction between you and ali right after purple replaced in, and you really look town from it. So you need to listen to me. If I'm town, gamma and uncrowned are town. Period.

2008 is where I explained my gamma TR. I don't feel like explaining my uncrowned TR but I really want you to ISO him and re-evaluate.

[Infinity 324]

mmm if u flip town, the team is basically just like Gamma/uncrowned.

Noraa, I really hate saying things like this. But my strong TR's are almost never wrong. I reread the interaction between you and ali right after purple replaced in, and you really look town from it. So you need to listen to me. If I'm town, gamma and uncrowned are town. Period.

2008 is where I explained my gamma TR. I don't feel like explaining my uncrowned TR but I really want you to ISO him and re-evaluate.

Sorry for the harsh wording. I really hope you consider my perspective though.

[Infinity 324]

I'm gonna stop posting because the more we post the longer it will take for murder to come back.

[Infinity 324]

Uncrowned I wish I had your confidence that people will listen to that when you/I flip town

[Infinity 324]

Whatever

I still wanna get tracy today

[Infinity 324]

Can we not

[Infinity 324]

I am.

[Infinity 324]

Uncrowned please vote tracy

Even if people listen about kookie/tracy/purple (which they won’t) they need to vote right in ELo

We need to hit scum today to win this game

[Infinity 324]

Uncrowned please vote tracy

Even if people listen about kookie/tracy/purple (which they won’t) they need to vote right in ELo

We need to hit scum today to win this game

[Infinity 324]

Uncrowned please vote tracy

Even if people listen about kookie/tracy/purple (which they won’t) they need to vote right in ELo

We need to hit scum today to win this game

[Infinity 324]

Ohh you’re jessie. (We’re in an ongoing game together)

[Infinity 324]

We can lim PH/infin today.

I don't think there's enough support for purple

[Infinity 324]

tracy only has 2 votes on her right?

[Infinity 324]

I’m scared as hell of a purple/not tracy team but I think we’ve already lost if that’s the world we’re living in

[Infinity 324]

Gamma, if the team is purple/tracy, and we elim me here, we lose because kookie never votes purple.

[Infinity 324]

Also I'm not that close minded my dude. Tell me whyyyyee

Idk, I feel like you’ve been playing this day pretty close minded. I get that you think I’m scum, but I’ve tried to reach out to you multiple times and you barely engaged me. I also think purple is playing a strong enough scum game to win 3p ELo without too much trouble.

[Infinity 324]

Scum flip today is great no matter what.

We’re in 4v1. We get a track clear. We mislim. We protect the clear and track someone else. As long as scum doesn’t shoot the same person we tracked, we’re in 2v1 with 2 clears which is a win. This even assumes we don’t get guilties from the track. Point being, you should vote who you think is scum.

[Infinity 324]

Murder look into my eyes. I am town.

[Infinity 324]

There are players who would self vote as scum to AtE, but uncrowned

definitely

does not seem like one of them.

[Infinity 324]

Gamma looks p bad here as well.
I honestly think that tracy looks the best out of the 4 :/

Ahhhhh
Noraa and koba is not the team.
Noraa and koba is not the team.
Noraa and koba is not the team

Yeah I reread the noraa/purple interactions when purple replaced in to make sure. There’s no way.

[Infinity 324]

Ali & taly you played really well, I was legitimately scared at a few points. Too many obvtown people I think.

Setup felt a bit swingy for my liking. Track effect do that to a setup.

Overall it was exhausting but I had fun.

[Infinity 324]

Lim town d1 -> scum days 2 and 3 is a pattern I’ve noticed in micros

[Infinity 324]

Also I'm feeling extra happy about this win after being told my reads suck lol

Infinity I'm glad you and I started linking up a bit after D1. I was a bit paranoid of you but I like the way you approach interactions and it gave me a lot of confidence in you towards the end especially.

Yeah for sure. I try to reach out to people when they’re not seeing my PoV and sometimes it’s really effective.

[Infinity 324]

Idk I feel strongly like I’m getting manipulated by strong scum this game and that’s why I feel like noraa or purple is scum. But since the feeling started when purple entered the game it makes sense for it to be purple.

@koba glad I finally got this right after bending

[Infinity 324]

I do think if PH attempts to placate me there and pocket me I would've self-destructed and been hellbent on Tracy/Gamma, but that's still a tough spot to be in with your partner elimmed on D2.

Yeah the setup makes it really tough to bus. It was a cool idea, but I'm wondering if the track could be changed to something else. Can't really think of what, though.

[Infinity 324]

to be fair purple was much more openwolfing

i was trying to keep it subtle to at least make it to day 2 so i can bus myself

Yeah but everyone townread them anyway lol it was frustrating. Ali faked emotion really well and eir push on me look towny if, and taly was just solid overall.

Yeah I guess no killing after 1 scum gets limmed is better and makes the setup less swingy.

[Infinity 324]

7:2 -> Town lim d1 + NK -> 5:2 -> scum lim d2 + no kill -> 5:1 -> town lim d3 + no kill -> 4:1 -> regular mafia starting on d4. So town still gets 3 chances to hit the second scum if they lim scum d2.

PEdit: I get it, but I knew murder would vote tracy and purple would be forced into it. So I thought we were fine.

[Infinity 324]

I’m 3/3 on murdercat being in the game making my reads accurate.

[Infinity 324]

Purple conceded

I will say that while I do think purple played to their wincon really well, some of the tactics ali used (hyperposting, emotional manipulation) made the game less fun and I probably wouldn’t do that as scum. I can’t really fault em for it because it’s playing to wincon, but I would like to see less of it in general on this site from both alignments.

[Infinity 324]

Idk I hated when e accused me of leaving em out to die when I didn’t want em on the council. Having to consider that it could come from town kinda hurt my brain. Ofc I only have to consider it cause town sometimes does that kinda shit, but still.

[Infinity 324]

Alisae hammered tracy and conceded

[Infinity 324]

Taly I knew your slot was scum and I still struggled to find arguments to SR your play lol

[Infinity 324]

Hmm, I thought you would just dodge the track and then you + tracy + kookie wins 5p elo.

[Infinity 324]

we even discussed the possibility of tracy shooting us AS we got docc'ed, and it be played off as an innocent.

Wow that would've been next level.

[Infinity 324]

Yeah that was kind of a lazy SR. I’m not too upset about it though, since he was in my pretty small PoE.

[Infinity 324]

i'm not too mad about my own elim because I admitted as much in the dead thread I didn't give my all to this game

i'm more mad at myself about the fact that at one point I thought to myself/knew that Koba's "no vote until council thing is a scum ploy" and didn't vote him or try to push it.

Yeah I suspected that at some point too, idk why I didn’t say anything about it. Crazy that the idea lasted past their
replacement.

I really want to see the scum pt. I was so sure alisae was trying to scare me into not tracking tracy.

[Infinity 324]

Conceding in that spot was totally fine

[Infinity 324]

I had a ton of associations set up with literally everyone but no one cares weeeeeeeeeee

Thing is, you/kookie really didn’t make sense as partners and I had strong TRs on everyone else.

PEdit: aww <3

[Infinity 324]

Outworlder you seem cool and I want to play with you in a game where you’re efforting more!

[Infinity 324]

Subject: The Council: Student Council Edition! | Home

Spoiler:

With that said:
I think I have to perform the kill.
100% I cannot let you get caught by a guilty.

If you got caught via a guilty, that ruins everything and I think the game actually becomes a lot more impossible to win.
Though actually if I get caught via a guilty that also ruins everything I've did to set up.
Hmm

nooooooo stop you're getting checked you're getting checked you're getting checked you're getting checked

Me getting checked is better then tracy because if tracy gets checked n1 it gives town a lot more information then they would have had than if tracy gets checked. Not to mention my flip is also good considering if you read my ISO, its a fucking mess. The false associations are literally everywhere

Ehh I think you’re overestimating this. Kookie and I absolutely couldn’t have been your partner, and tracy would’ve been a strong consideration.

[Infinity 324]

@Alisae I think you were a lot of the reason there were so many posts, which made it hard to tracy to catch up, which naturally put her in the PoE. I think she has strong scum games, maybe this wasn’t one of them but you also have to accommodate to your partner.

[Infinity 324]

Also, still lol'ing at Noraa having issues with the pace after she made mafiasunny impossible to tread water in

A

micro

where

noraa

couldn’t keep up. What a game.

[Infinity 324]

Oh yeah happy bday!

[Infinity 324]

Like koba is right
As town I’m blue as scum I’m red.

Do any amount of meta and you find my town and scum approaches are just different.

I only get away with what I get away with because towns either just kill themselves and I don’t need to play or people just don’t know my meta and thats to be expect. People shouldn’t know my meta as well as I know my own meta.

Yeah I’m just looking forward to the next time you roll scum against me and I’ll have to go through the whole headache of being sure you’re scum but no one will listen to me.

[Infinity 324]

I agree alisae, it’s two different playstyles and both are effective.

PEdit: :O thanks

[Infinity 324]

I agree alisae, it’s two different playstyles and both are effective.

PEdit: :O thanks

Ya, massive respect for your play

We should definitely hydra I’ll teach you blue

Yeah! I was trying to be blue early on by not outing TRs but when you replaced in the game became stressful as hell and I gave up.

Also I’m not usually this good as town >.<

[Infinity 324]

Idk it’s really game dependent. Murder has seen easily 2 of my top 5 town games. When I have a clear head my gut is really good at finding scum, but often that doesn’t happen.

[Infinity 324]

That, and having someone I know is town really helps me solidify and feel good about my reads.

[Infinity 324]

Noraa was actually playing well at the beginning, but a bunch of stuff happened with taylor and people started SRing her and it looked like that threw her off her game. She was at least able to obvtown much better than she usually does.

[Infinity 324]

Yeah I can’t blame you too much for having bad reads when you weren’t caught up. It was a fast-moving game and alisae spamming didn’t help.

[Infinity 324]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=85039

[Infinity 324]

Alisae, you were trying to storm off, and tracy was a questing beast.

[Infinity 324]

It means running out the deadline to get a no elim as scum.

[Infinity 324]

Oh that actually works really well
Now I know what my next scum game will look like

If you do it in Elo

that'd

be impressive.

I really wanna see what scum!murder looks like now.

[Infinity 324]

Noraa was actually playing well at the beginning, but a bunch of stuff happened with taylor and people started SRing her and it looked like that threw her off her game. She was at least able to obvtown much better than she usually does.

people squashed my Purple SR into dust and I had no choice but to stop and then I actually started TRing them after I stopped so ....

Yeah kinda a similar thing happened with koba in bending, where people didn't agree with my scumread and then I doubted myself. (they were scum)