Mini Normal 2183 | Innocent Things | Game Over!

[Noraa]

You know I'm curious. Why would a neighborizer choose nopo?
Why is nopo defending Johnny so much?
Why the defeatist attitude?
Is it really just as simple as Johnny/Nopo?

I've been so weirded out by the way Johnny has avoided my case on him but its so terribly weird that I'm literally second guessing myself. Like is scum!him this blatantly obvious?

It's insane. I came into this game, saw very few things, and was nearly 100% certain he was scum.

I wanted to confirm it by talking to him and seeing if his reactions were weird but he keeps ignoring me which is literally the scummiest possible thing to do.

I think I still stick by my gut and believe this just IS scum!him. I don't see a world where town!Johnny misses all his town tells and avoids me like this.

[Noraa]

I think nopo is doing this typical "If I die don't kill this person"
Generally this thing is done to uh .... townies but I don't think Johnny is town.

My last possibility is that nopo is town and Johnny is scum.

I refuse to believe Johnny is town regardless of anything.

[Noraa]

No watcher claims, the Watcher is probably mafia so I'm fine with my lynch since it would disable that role.

btw u make it seem like if a watcher claimed, u'd be confirmed which is ... not true.

[Noraa]

@Johnny - what's the neighborhood like? Did you guys claim to each other prior?

pay attention to the game.

[Noraa]

Johnnyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy i summon thee!

[Noraa]

VOTE: nopoint

why? also do u still think Johnny is town?

[Noraa]

Noraa-

Oh this changed fast :O

[Noraa]

@noraa watchu wanna know

I want a reply to my case on you.

[Noraa]

Fading Nora allows this PR mess to figure itself out over time, and gives every potential PR room to act if they can tonight.

Noraa is not only the slot I want to flip because they annoy me, it is strategically the best fade, then to vig Nopoint.


Noraa is trying to push Johnny so that Johnny doesn't come off as town after Nopoint flips. Nopoint is setting me up for if Noraa gets faded to push me as a buddy. Noraa came into this game ready to discredit me, as she did it before I even posted after she replaced in. This happened because I was pushing Nopoint as scum, and I needed to be discredited.

10/10 you are great at making up fanfics Flavor

[Noraa]

PR messes don't just go poof. all the reasons for limming me are actual garbage. Do y'all even know what ur doing?

[Noraa]

Every single argument to lim me has been a PL argument.

Literally. Every. Single. One.

[Noraa]

Btw Flavor if you have nothing even remotely useful to say, don't say anything. No one needs to hear your dumb fanfic.

[Noraa]

1) it is a policy and you haven't provided any non policy reasons until recently where ur linking me to nopo but all of those reasons are pretty shitty too.
2) do you really think we all need to hear ten pages of you saying the scum team is nopo/Noraa. Like bruh stfu for a sec. No one needs to hear a repeat of what u've already said multiple times.

[Noraa]

Bruh when someone just runs around like

"VOTE NORAA"
"You didn't hear me the first time? VOTE NORAA"
"Are you deaf? VOTE NORAA"
"Still can't hear me? VOTE NORAA"
"Are you stupid? VOTE NORAA"

Im gonna get pissed. Like STOP. No one needs to hear ur dumb repetition.

[Noraa]

it is a policy and you haven't provided any non policy reasons until recently where ur linking me to nopo but all of those reasons are pretty shitty too.

i've been doing this all day, and I even linked Nopo to Shelly.

Great linking. Your reads are trash. STOP repeating the same thing. Its annoying as hell.

[Noraa]

Holy fuck you are insane levels of bad at sorting. STOP TUNNELING AND WAKE UP FROM UR DAMN HALLUCINATION

[Noraa]

*sigh*
I'm really gonna die today cuz some braindead player is deathtunneling and with the stupidest reasons to back up his shit?

[Noraa]

FL loves to hear himself talk.

This is a very good way to put it.

[Noraa]

Flavor I was defending your play from D1 because I didn’t feel it was Scummy. I’m a bit concerned that you might be shoving Noraa aside and aggressively attacking the slot so they lose credibility. But beyond that, it seemed quite personal, and a bit unnecessary? You know I have respect for your game, but waving your experience in people’s faces doesn’t make for a pleasant in-game experience.

+1

OML finally some reasonable voices have emerged from within this chaos.

[Noraa]

is that 4 votes on Noraa?

Meh.

Plusjoyed probably scum, Johnny probably town.

There’s one thing about plusJOYED that I’ll say. I recall feeling very disconnected with plusJOYED when we were both Town, and we exchanged SRs, and I also remember thinking that they were very wrong. I was partly right, but overly harsh. I’m finding myself this game wanting to trust plus. Which maybe should give me pause? Like plus is making some sense, but it’s also a decently strong defense of shellyc/Noraa that I’m having trouble fighting against. Though it’s also based on an interpretation of the NK, which isn’t reliable.

I’ll agree that if Noraa flips Scum, then look at plus and Johnny is probably Town. I think you’re Town.

I don’t trust nopoint’s attacks on your Claim in particular. I would be fine with nopoint making arguments about your playstyle more, or how your perspective doesn’t make sense. But it’s a very narrow focus, and one which helps avoid contradictions or too much scrutiny.

uh no. you don't shade conftown.

[Noraa]

I’m like having all these thoughts all flow to me at the same time.

Geraintm has been too useless. Plus is making too much sense. Oh and I’m with you that there’s something off about Fuzzy. Admitting to trying to coast don’t give me positive vibes. You’re seeing it as Town. I’m weakening my read there for sure.

Oh this is actually scary. I think fuzzy admitted to coasting in their last scum game :/
I need to actually go back and check this.

[Noraa]

This is a Scummy vote. This is essentially shade by association? Do I have that right?

Agree that its scummy as hell.

If Nopo and Johnny are both scum, I'm actually gonna be mad.
Lets flip nopo and if he flips scum, the team is legit Nopo/Johnny/someone else.
imma be so damn sad they left me out.

I'm pretty goddamn convinced Johnny is scum. Nopo I don't know that well. I just know he is extremely good at spotting prs. Like GOD TIER. That could easily explain the Titus kill but I'm afraid I'm stepping into confbiasing world.

Regardless, since no watcher has claimed, it either doesn't exist or is scum. We lose nothing from elimming nopo today even if worst case scenario, he is town.

I think I'm starting to fully believe a nopo/Johnny team now ngl.

Nopo also said he could semi clear Johnny. Like .... uh wtf. I think he said that bc he originally was gonna fake claim something else.

All on all, Nopo is the biggest cw to my shitty asf wagon. He's scummy. His role isn't useful.
Choo Choo.

VOTE: Nopo

[Noraa]

I just know he is extremely good at spotting prs. Like GOD TIER.

I say this because in our last game together, we were scum together.

He found the doc enabler night 1 in a 2 doc setup. We could've broke the setup right then right there. Johnny and I paranoia'ed him into going elsewhere but he was a scum MVP there.

[Noraa]

despite andres less activity I still TR him
-----
TRs I'm taking vig suggestions from (unordered)
insano
noraa
dunn
FL
andres

notmafia has been so out of it I'd rather not let them aim no offense.

I would do Fuzzy. I think we’ll get more content out of Johnny. But I think Johnny makes sense from what I’ve read.

I am a watcher enabler. I believed FL’s claim because I knew it was an enabler-packed game. I think he’s scum because there’s no way all 3 enablers are town.

N1 I was neighborized by Johnny. Anyone who thinks we are sus can volunteer to be neighorized tonight.

Noraa it’s a shame you’re scum, would have loved a K-pop qt

Neighborizer could be pocketing you - just saying. It’s a weak clear at best.

And between Vig and Watcher, I’m going to go for Vig as more likely Town. Outside of the fact that plus seems very Towny to me.

Why do these two posts come back to back?

Im entertaining a few scumteam possibilities assuming nopo and Johnny are both scum.

[Noraa]

Noraa wagon as of this post has worse makeup than nopoint wagon

Agree.

[Noraa]

You two are fascinating to follow at 1a.m. Christmas morning

Get some beauty sleep!!!!!!
why u up at 1 am?!

[Noraa]

If no one is claiming watcher then I just think it’s possibly a scum role. An enabler heavy set up with 3 pairs of enabler - PR, one town-town, one town-scum and one scum-town makes sense to me

enabler doesn't mean the role MUST exist.

[Noraa]

The possibility of Johnny scum does exist, I originally thought neighboriZers are confirmed town role, even when it is not Johnny has not tried to influence me to do anything and I think that’s town af

Then why'd u tell us it was a soft clear? If u thought that, it should've been a hard clear right?

[Noraa]

@andres: my scum read on Nora is not entirely from association with FL. It’s an unfair misrepresentation when I’ve been scum reading Shelly all game and Noraa has only continued to make the arguments Shelly did

Ok and?

[Noraa]

Readup finished!!!!

[Noraa]

merry christmas! Johnny what'd Santa get ur kids :O

[Noraa]

:O

I look forward to seeing the messy present stack LOL

[Noraa]

[Noraa]

Unless you think the scum team is flavor/Plus/___, plus is a vig and vigs are conftown.

[Noraa]

I'm voting nopoint I think

ur vote's on me rn.

[Noraa]

Hi Noraa!

VOTE: Noraa

[Noraa]

Im ashamed of my Johnny read. I was so certain he was scum.

[Noraa]

This actually makes me so upset tho

[Noraa]

Plus is conftown.
2 more scum to catch.

[Noraa]

Im never gonna do a meta read on him again

[Noraa]

Im sorry Johnny

[Noraa]

T^T imma sit in my corner of shame for a lil bit while I try to feel better.

[Noraa]

[Noraa]

sorry fuzzy
andres told me to I take no responsibility

wait what. I thought you killed Johnny.

Ok I feel much better now.

[Noraa]

it was between noraa and fuzzy for me and I went with fuzzy. since fuzzy claimed VT I thought we'd lose less if I was wrong
I think insano is telling the truth now cuz maf went for neighborizer and not the vig. To me that means maf was worried about bodyguard so they went with a different pick

I thought u TRed me?

[Noraa]

I don't necessarily blame you for misreading him, Noraa, because he didn't do anything, you just have to learn that sometimes people not doing much doesn't make him scum. The way he outed was +town though.


...the mafia killed

johnny

?? The literal only reason I could see for that is that one of the claimed PRs is a fakeclaiming goon, or one of the unclaimed players is a mafia PR who doesn't want to claim a PR. Even if I thought he was unlikely scum with nopoint based on their interactions, killing him over a conftown role is

bizarre

.

no I was too confident in my soul reads. it wasn't even bc he was inactive and quiet.

[Noraa]

I thought u TRed me?

yes but I also trust FL here. In the end I went with my own gut and andres and was wrong. So my read in you has gotten weaker too.

why would you trust FL?

[Noraa]

FL has never. I repeat NEVER. Not SRed me in a game before. His shit is personal and he throws it at me like he's sorting.

[Noraa]

Shelly was scumreading nopoint but waffled a bit, and was trying to put connections between him and other people a lot...ehhhh. She liked to bus a lot, correct? I don't think their interactions are necessarily clearing.

if shelly wants to bus, she ties people together. She'll say half the plist is scum with her buddy that way she'll have stuff to work off of afterwards.

[Noraa]

m pretty sure scumteam is in andres/noraa/gera

unwnd says the scum team is Gera/andres and honestly since u think that too, its probably right.

[Noraa]

yeah sorry noraa I like ya but I think it's you
FL did a poor job of convincing me, his exchange with you was very TvT to me

Should've shot you instead of fuzzy
VOTE: noraa

its not.

[Noraa]

I haven't buddied a single person in this playerlist this entire game. That is not scum!Noraa behavior.

The one person I "buddied" was Johnny but I called him scum in my every other post so like ... those are some shitty buddying skills if that was buddying.

[Noraa]

Johnny dying I believe is probably bc of his complex modifier. Theres scum in the vt claims is my guess. Can someone give me the list of claims again? I can't find it.

[Noraa]

If I were scum, trust me, I would NEVER tunnel Johnny. It just wouldn't happen.

[Noraa]

If I were scum, trust me, I would NEVER tunnel Johnny. It just wouldn't happen.

All hell would freeze over before this happens.

[Noraa]

ok so the claims are
Dunn - cop
Plus - vig
bunch of enablers.
were there any vt claims?

[Noraa]

Cuz Johnny kill doesn't make sense unless there were vt claims.

[Noraa]

Who was claiming to be in johnny's neighborhood, again? Who did johnny target and what was the result?

nopo and insano

[Noraa]

Spoiler:

Also Plus is town-lean for the upper posts and because of this

Hey hey people, Sseth here

locktown
also VOTE: shellyc

just want to point out that she did exactly the same thing as town in k-pop mafia

Could Flavor’s self-vote “plan” have been disingenuous - an obvious attempt at making themselves look Scummy so that they can explain away their survival later in the game, without attracting too many votes? Yes, maybe. Flavor doesn’t seem that keen on giving out reads or establishing themselves in this game, so that’s not a positive sign. It’s also a marked departure from how they’ve played Scum the last few times we’ve faced each other though, and that in a way also makes sense (it would be easy for me or others to spot I think).

Where I’m struggling is when I try to make sense of it from a strategic perspective. Flavor seems fine under pressure as Scum, but he knows that he needs allies, or Town players that are in a position to make errors. The easiest way to get significant errors is by pocketing players, or at least have others actually think you’re Town. He doesn’t seem particularly focused on even projecting Towniness here, openly admitting to not trying hard, and inviting votes. Not the most viable Scum strategy long-term is it? The other side of it is that he’s buying time, but Flavor doesn’t like to sit on the sidelines for too long. If he continues to drag his feet for too long execute him. Otherwise, I think there’s better places to look for now.

So what you are saying is that FL plans everything as scum and he doesn't seem to be doing things that are long-term strategies like pocketing and projecting towniness, so you're not confident he is scum yet? IMO, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, I'm saying FL could have made the vote on himself as town or scum based on his arrogant nature, but then he justified it and knee-jerk pulled the vote back. That makes it slightly more likely to come from scum. Let's talk about another fact, why was he waiting specifically for the "second" vote on him? Though I could possibly see why the first vote would look townish, I don't see what distinguishes the second, third, fourth vote.

nopointinactingup

- If I recall correctly, they're the other one who pushed Dunn, so it's interesting they're both voting me now. Nopoint made the second vote, the one I was baiting, so this has a high chance of being caught scum for that reason alone.

Dunnstral

- Dunnstral brushed and deflected early game reads and looks to both try and pocket Shelly by hard town reading them, and also rescinded when speaking to another player, this was to Nopoint even.

In conclusion, vote Dunnstral, my theory is Nopoint/Dunnstral team, probably with one of my higher town reads.

I asked you already but why second? Is that the only reason why you think of me as scum based on a random number?

nopoint seems lurky which is what happened in 2174

I would like to hear from johnny on nopoint with johnny being nopoints scumpartner in that game

nopoint seems lurky which is what happened in 2174

I would like to hear from johnny on nopoint with johnny being nopoints scumpartner in that game

Uh they're a good scum player. Not too controlling, more capable of disappearing into the town than me. Not unlike here honestly

Shelly, so instead of reading and meta-ing me yourself you went and asked Johnny? Seems a bit theatrical. And one thing I have to add, there's no use in meta-ing someone if you only read their scum game. For example, you keep saying I'm lurking but if you read any of my town games (from waaaaaaaay before) you will see that I have similar post frequency regardless of alignment because I like to read a whole bunch of stuff in succession it helps me keep track of what's happening in town

Main 3 (Nopoint notmaf Hank) with flavor and you as distraction or potential scum if i'm wrong about one in main 3

I actually think this laissez faire read list is kinda town. Johnny-scum would be tangential here.

All these close to naked votes on FL as he's about to show effort makes me think he's town unless I'm missing something and effort-FL is a scum thing. FL's wagon actually was pretty productive there's gotta be some scum material here. Dunn's vote is pretty scummy and I already have a scum-read on him so I have no qualm about joining his wagon.

Vote:Dunntral

Actually the more I think about it, the more I think Shelly is scum. I’ve had this weird feeling since the beginning of the game that her posts are commentary-ish and pupet-mastering and then her post #477 was just downright manipulative. Shelly knows johnny’s only game with me is when I’m scum so she’s letting Johny think about me in that game. If you’re reading two games from someone you’re bound to find similarities regardless of alignment and her under the table push will cause town to scum-read one another. Scum ultimately benefits from having paranoid town

VOTE: Shelly

will come back for a deeper look

VOTE: Shelly

will come back for a deeper look

omgys vote?

It’s not an omgus when I already have a scum read on her. And shelly not responding to my argument makes me think she felt caught.

I'm liking this shelly wagon, her blatant shading/ignoring points against her is scummy.

Titus and Dunn are clearly scum here.

FL trying to tie Dunn to Titus here near the end of the day looks pretty scummy too, I wouldn't rule out FL-dunn bussing team.

I think Shelly is scum too. I personally would kill people who suspect me as scum because I can wifom about it and that’s what she’s doing right now

Plus, do you suspect me for starting a Shelly wagon yesterday? If so consider this, yesterday’s biggest wagons were dunn and not_mafia, who are likely town right now. Why would Scum me try for a NL instead of eliminating people who suspect me? You know I play better than that as scum from last game, where I always got a townie lynched

Why'd you have to go and replace in a scummy slot

VOTE: Hanken

It's a bit biased but I'm not willing to eliminate Nora today. I'd rather not have Hank as a null slot for another day either

Why'd you have to go and replace in a scummy slot

shelly was a beacon of towniness and if u don't think so, its either bc ur scum or u don't understand her meta at all. I literally skimmed her ISO *SKIMMED* for maybe a minute and I was like YES IV REP ME IN I AM READY

I originally thought she was towny but her recent behavior has been eye-brow raising. Have you read your role pm?

I feel there's a lot of focus on Johnny and I today and in my position that's really a sign that we are going to lynch town or have a no elim again. There's a high chance we're being put in this position by the scum team.

Plus, you are trying to change the game state and pushing for something so I have a feeling that you might be town, albeit misguided. I don't see where you're going with the framing theory when both Johnny and I already either implied or stated our unwillingness to lim Nora today. Do you think a scum-team would entirely change strategy just because a friend replaced in?

I personally think the Titus kill even made Shelly less likely to be scum as smart scum often go for subtle kills instead of direct threats. So I could also re-use your argument for you masterminding the kill here to implicated me and Johnny.

I'm going to entertain the thought that you're right about Shelly's playstyle then the one behind the Titus kill here should be in the sidelines and inactive, waiting for town to suicide on Night Kill Analysis. There is no need for scum to pick sides when lim on either side benefits them, and the stale state of this game is looking like it's something like that. Among my biggest suspects for this scenario are FL, Hank (before the replacement) and geraint due solely to their inactivity and that's why I'm pressuring people with votes to get some inputs on where they are.

Particularly, I feel FL disappearing off the map as soon as pressure disappears off him is scummy. Scum vig-enabler is a very possible reality.

We could lynch Noraa today because Johnny or I can actually prove what we're saying to one of you bastards. If the scum team is too scared and kill us then at least they won't be trying to find the Vig

You waited for Noraa to get enough votes and turned on me or anyone else when you got the chance. That way you'll be seen as completely distanced from Noraa. There was no hyenas.

I don't like that, you have no skin in the game.

The deal is
When Nora's lynched and flip red, we vig you.
When I'm lynched and flip green, we vig you.
When Nora's lynched and flip green, we vig me.

I am a watcher enabler. I believed FL’s claim because I knew it was an enabler-packed game. I think he’s scum because there’s no way all 3 enablers are town.

N1 I was neighborized by Johnny. Anyone who thinks we are sus can volunteer to be neighorized tonight.

Noraa it’s a shame you’re scum, would have loved a K-pop qt

Lmao FL if you think johnny/me/noraa are scum team again

Enablers are negative utility Noraa they are not PRs

No watcher claims, the Watcher is probably mafia so I'm fine with my lynch since it would disable that role.

On the other hand Plus, if you vig Johnny after I'm lynched, we will have words at the end of the game.

The scumteam is Noraa + FL + 1 sideline person (gerain, fuzzy, maybe even Andres). Don’t shoot Johnny look into them. Plenty of things in my iso that could point to them being scum.

Probably not going to be around for most of the holiday. Merry Christmas y’all!

@andres: my scum read on Nora is not entirely from association with FL. It’s an unfair misrepresentation when I’ve been scum reading Shelly all game and Noraa has only continued to make the arguments Shelly did

Take a look at nopo's interactions with my slot.
A shit ton of shade.
The rest can be summed up as:
Shelly isn't likely scum because of Titus something or another
*two seconds later*
The scum team is shelly blah and blah
*two seconds later*
Noraa i am biased so im not gonna vote u
*two seconds later*
Noraa is scum with blah

[Noraa]

its a very underwhelming iso.

[Noraa]

Noraa where are you looking besides andres and why are you so convinced?

Is it really just because of my influence

yeah basically.

[Noraa]

and now I look like crap for it

this is something I say as scum a lot. I find that as town, I never blame myself or ever think of myself as scummy(unless I like big time fucked up)

[Noraa]

While I again appreciate the humbling I would prefer if you told me what your next options would be

Andres you too, being wrong to me doesn't determine much because there's still plenty of game to get it right. Do you agree with me that there's likely scum on Nopoint's wagon?

I don't really have any opinions. I suck at sorting and it really hasn't gotten better. if I look too close, I'll end up thinking everyone is scum. currently I'm chilling at the medium effort level and trying to sort but its hard.

[Noraa]

Ngl this defeatist "I know I've been bad this game but y'all should let me get a clean slate" thing is really bad. I hate it as it reminds me tooooo much of scum!me

[Noraa]

Start with your townreads then? If looking scum for scum doesn't suit you then inverse it, I actually do this a lot myself to create a PoE

inverse is hard too.
I think plus is town but that's 100% mech.
I don't even believe that strongly in Dunn town with his literal 5 posts or something.
NM is super underwhelming this game and so I'm just like ... uh.
Im not a big fan of flavor and I honestly feel like he could be scum gassing me up.
The problem is that I think everyone here that's not mechanically cleared could be scum and I fail to see anything that I even remotely am willing to clear for long periods of time because literally like ten seconds later they call me scum and I'm like "bitch wtf"

[Noraa]

and now I look like crap for it

this is something I say as scum a lot. I find that as town, I never blame myself or ever think of myself as scummy(unless I like big time fucked up)

What you do as Scum has no bearing and how I play as Town or Scum. Not sure why you think that’s relevant.

bc I don't see why town does this type of play ever.

[Noraa]

I struggle with sorting. it either comes in a huge dump of confbiasing and I tunnel three different townies or I just don't have reads. Generally that's how my games are with occasional soul reads thrown in.

[Noraa]

Uhm, what? You’ve never seen a player act defeated after being horribly wrong? Are you serious?

it looks different. town doesn't go "ik I look shit here but believe me"
town goes "Sorry about that guys" and that's generally where it ends.

[Noraa]

Actually Flavor might have been right I don’t know why I’m defending the shellyc/Noraa slot when they’re acting like this game is unsolvable and everybody not mechanically cleared is Scum. Like that’s ridiculous.

faking reads is not difficult. if I wanted to whip out a fake readslist it'd take me two minutes. explaining that I don't have any reads and calling everyone scummy results in hours of extra work.

[Noraa]

why would you defend someone that's not a TR to begin with?

[Noraa]

From what I understand you think I'm town for the read and then maybe like Insano? Is that correct?

I think ur town bc u have a specific solve and u remind me of cakes large normal.
but then I ISO'ed u earlier today and the way nopo just disappeared outta ur solve made me freak out and question all my sorting abilities.

Don't have a read on Insano.

[Noraa]

From what I understand you think I'm town for the read and then maybe like Insano? Is that correct?

I think ur town bc u have a specific solve and u remind me of cakes large normal.
but then I ISO'ed u earlier today and the way nopo just disappeared outta ur solve made me freak out and question all my sorting abilities.

Don't have a read on Insano.

[Noraa]

I might have had a stronger sense that someone was Scum, or think that a different course of action is more likely to result in a Town victory. This isn’t like black and white.

ur pretty defensive.

[Noraa]

OMGUS

[Noraa]

This seems like a good vote

VOTE: Andresvmb

[Noraa]

this is some good flailing :O

[Noraa]

its making me reconsider a tiny tiny bit

[Noraa]

if you're willing to read it

yes pls my town play is shit. pls help.

[Noraa]

But the way Noraa has decided to pile on me today

is it a problem? scum!me doesn't pile on like this ever.

[Noraa]

and shellyc’s exit from the game

excuse me?

[Noraa]

and shellyc’s exit from the game

excuse me?

1) talking about replacements and using it as a reason is stupid as shit
2) no

[Noraa]

Order would look like:

Andres
Geraint
Flavor
Noraa
NM

[Noraa]

Oh wait unwnd has to claim too. that's it for unclaimed I think?

[Noraa]

Did you miss the part where Not_Mafia was cleared by Dunn? And are you shading Flavor still?

ur first in line. we're waiting.

[Noraa]

I agree. Dunn agrees.

[Noraa]

is Andres still scum, unwnd? I feel some genuine frustration and annoyance.

[Noraa]

There was a lot of flailing and OMGUSing but I think newbtown probs does that stuff too?

[Noraa]

nvm I'm taking back the noob pass. I'm newer than him ....

[Noraa]

except my scum game is stellar for my experience and I've solo carried thru 8 mislims in a row before.

[Noraa]

Who are you calling a newb? I’m not new to the game.

this was kinda funny sorry I laughed. I just assumed after I saw the 2020 join date.

[Noraa]

I don't mean offense with it.

[Noraa]

I really look forward to the unwnd wall. maybe my town game will finally not be trash after this game :O

[Noraa]

Hahaha am I supposed to be impressed by that statement?

My Scum game is actually bad. I’m can be honest about that. I can’t fake my genuine interest and focus on game solving. But whatever you wouldn’t know since this isn’t my Scum game and I haven’t played Scum on this forum.

no but my scum game is better than my town game by way too much.

[Noraa]

my point is that you say I'm scum here and my scum game is trash. if ur saying that, it literally means I'm town.

[Noraa]

Start with your townreads then? If looking scum for scum doesn't suit you then inverse it, I actually do this a lot myself to create a PoE

inverse is hard too.
I think plus is town but that's 100% mech.
I don't even believe that strongly in Dunn town with his literal 5 posts or something.
NM is super underwhelming this game and so I'm just like ... uh.
Im not a big fan of flavor and I honestly feel like he could be scum gassing me up.
The problem is that I think everyone here that's not mechanically cleared could be scum and I fail to see anything that I even remotely am willing to clear for long periods of time because literally like ten seconds later they call me scum and I'm like "bitch wtf"

Dunn is a claimed cop with an innocent on not_mafia and titus as an enabler who died night 1. were you not aware of this?

Suddenly I'm concerned that you don't seem to know the claims when Johnny ended up getting shot over a claimed PR.

ik Dunn is cop. and nm is the shot he claimed. but I have thought about fake claiming cop as scum before and I know nothing of setup spec just that there are too many enablers and not enough prs but if in this mass claim, many prs pop up, that'll no longer be a balance problem.

[Noraa]

@Insano it’s possible the Scum shot Johnny thinking that plus might shoot there. plus had announced that they would shoot Johnny earlier in D2, and they might have been aiming to (i) discredit the Vig Claim (by having the shots overlap) while taking out a PR. You’ll also notice that Johnny was questioning the shellyc/Noraa slot. This is obviously sub-optimal as you and I have separately indicated, but it’s what makes most sense. I also don’t think you ever use your Role to protect Johnny there.

If you take what’s happened thus far as sufficiently strong evidence that Flavor is Town, then you should consider why Noraa continues to cast shade in that direction. That’s the one thing I would ask you to look at more closely.

if they wanted to cast doubt on plus, nokill would be the choice

[Noraa]

Its funny. Andres keeps calling insano scum periodically but the moment he sees some LHF noraa, he ignores all my meta arguments not even bothering to address them and take into account that my scum game is 20x better than my town game, and proceeds to buddy insano.

[Noraa]

He's doing the "Ik all of y'all have been voicing suspicions here but just recently I figured it out so lets kill her"

[Noraa]

@Insano it’s possible the Scum shot Johnny thinking that plus might shoot there. plus had announced that they would shoot Johnny earlier in D2, and they might have been aiming to (i) discredit the Vig Claim (by having the shots overlap) while taking out a PR. You’ll also notice that Johnny was questioning the shellyc/Noraa slot. This is obviously sub-optimal as you and I have separately indicated, but it’s what makes most sense. I also don’t think you ever use your Role to protect Johnny there.

If you take what’s happened thus far as sufficiently strong evidence that Flavor is Town, then you should consider why Noraa continues to cast shade in that direction. That’s the one thing I would ask you to look at more closely.

is casting shade on someone that's rubbing in my face their join date and how amazing they are a strange thing?

[Noraa]

Pulling petty shit like that is rude as hell and made me extremely angry. I have every right to believe he might be scum gassing me up.

[Noraa]

Checking in. Today is my daughters 8th birthday.
I'm straight up vanilla town.
again.
Post more later

Happy bday to your daughter. you were second in line but eh.

[Noraa]

Probably the vigilante and mafia targeted the same person

or they targeted a bp :O
I think that's it for possibilities
Doc and RBer aren't possible otherwise we would've had a guilty.

[Noraa]

There’s also no proof that Insaneo is in the neighborhood, keep that in mind. If he is scum, he was scum with Nopoint and would know everything in the neighborhood.

disagree. I think its very telling that he said nopo called me and flavor scum. that seems to match up well with what I imagined this neighborhood to be like. I thought there might be more pocketing considering nopo wanted to link Johnny and himself as a vote block ... and it did work.

also if Johnny had neighborized someone else, Insano would get exposed. I think if he's scum, the only possibility is that scum RBed Johnny to make sure there is no cc.

I'm going to revisit Johnnys end of the day posts bc he might've dropped us some hints on who he was gonna neighborize.

[Noraa]

I’m not buddying anybody. I’m making my points and appealing directly to Insanoflex to evaluate what I’m saying.

Your meta arguments about yourself are worthless. That’s why I haven’t addressed them. I can also say “I would never defend my Partner so openly and brazenly so near an execution as Scum”, and you would have no way of really knowing for sure.

I said my scum game is good. You say this piece of shit play here is my scum game which is offensive as hell considering my most recent scum game was a flawless win where I was UTR throughout. I know how to make people like me. I know how to pocket and buddy. Why am I not doing it here? Because I'm town.

Scum games don't just downgrade this much in this short of a time.

[Noraa]

Yes it is. I always die as town for bad play. I always die as scum by the last poe or mech.

[Noraa]

newbie 2027 (eliminated day 3, mafia goon, scum lose) -

LAST SCUM STANDING; POED

(replaced in for nepenthe) newbie 2028 (eliminated day 3, mafia goon, scum lose) -

LAST SCUM STANDING; POED

mini 2168 (eliminated day 2, mafia doctor, scum lose) -

GUILTIED

mini 2170 (eliminated day 2, town checker, town lose) -

MOST IMPORTANT PR IN THE GAME LIMMED DAY 2

(replaced in for sesq) open 796 (eliminated day 1, vanilla townie or villager, town win) -

ELIMMED RIGHT AFTER REP IN

large theme death curse (eliminated day 6, mafia goon, scum lose) -

SOLO CARRIED FROM DAY 2(I think?) ON

mini 2174 (lived til the end, mafia goon, scum win) -

FLAWLESS WIN

(chaos triforce) open 800 (eliminated day 2, vanilla townie, town win) -

FLASHWAGON

(kookiemonster) micro 981 (eliminated day 1, town ensign roleblocker, town lose) -

LOLHAMMERED RBER ON DAY 1

(noraas bakery) micro 989 (lived til the end, mafia goon, scum win) -

FLAWLESS WIN

[Noraa]

Sure the above is cherrypicked to some extent but that is all of my scum games except 2 unless I counted wrong.
One of which was bus service
the other which is xenoblade.
both are special situations that don't need to be mentioned.

[Noraa]

The town games are slightly cherrypicked bc I used to have calmer town games. Lately been raging a ton so I'm also much more short lived.

[Noraa]

I would also note that you replaced into a slot with a certain game state already built in, with various Claims and a limited pool. It’s not like any Scum would have a tremendous amount of options.

pfft.

[Noraa]

Just checked Johnnys iso. he didnt leave us clues.

[Noraa]

I don’t understand why you’re insisting on making an argument about your results, when it’s pointless. Why don’t you try and defend your positions in this game. Like why is Flavor Scum outside of them “gaslighting” you? Why are you shading Dunn’s claim? Is that extending to a potential read of Not_Mafia? You said you had “no read” of Insanoflex, yet you say I’m buddying them. How can you be so sure?

well when someone goes from "ur scum" to "lets wagon this together" ....

Dunn has done literally nothing and I am currently not caught up or planning to. I don't see why I have to accept it?

Flavor is not scum for anything but gaslighting. He's tunneled which is a town tell for him but for a 2017 join date, I do think he should be able to advance his scum game enough to do some tunneling?

[Noraa]

I've been last scum standing in EVERY SINGLE ONE OF MY SCUM GAMES except two. one where I got guilted night 1(ironically it was for being too towny. I was guilted by weak fn who crumbed their visit to their top TR Noraa really hard)
the other was xenoblade where the players were all incredible and never had a single mislim all game long. I died for trying to save a buddy too obviously day 1.

[Noraa]

Stats don't lie. My scum game is good. This is not it.

[Noraa]

They’re either both Scum (highly unlikely), Dunn is a Town Cop and has actually checked Not_Mafia (most likely), or Dunn is Scum and is clearing Not_Mafia (not particularly likely, but sure could be the case).

the last case is mostly what Im worried about. both being scum has come across my mind a few times but that'd be too simple.

[Noraa]

I've been last scum standing in EVERY SINGLE ONE OF MY SCUM GAMES except two. one where I got guilted night 1(ironically it was for being too towny. I was guilted by weak fn who crumbed their visit to their top TR Noraa really hard)
the other was xenoblade where the players were all incredible and never had a single mislim all game long. I died for trying to save a buddy too obviously day 1.

So... you haven’t been the last Scum standing in every game then.

1)where I died for being too towny
2)where the plist was insanely good

wtf is ur point

[Noraa]

No it's not. Im a really new player. my meta doesn't change this fast.

[Noraa]

Unwnd will back me up and unwnd has the most accurate reads on me out of everyone here.

[Noraa]

This is hilarious. ur asking the person that's tunneled me for all of the time I've been in this game to tell u if I'm town or not cuz u don't wanna tunnel.

[Noraa]

is it like not obvious or something what he's gonna say?

[Noraa]

Insano’s 1856 shows a willingness to vote geraintm, and Noraa has ranked geraintm fairly high on their execution list. I think it’s entirely possible geraintm is Town and both Insano and Noraa are the Scum Team.

LOL.

[Noraa]

Atm, I'm seeing a geraint/Flavor scum team.
Geraint is solely meta based. This is not the town!geraint that I remember. I already fucked up a meta read this game so I'm not willing to push this hard but I can link the game I'm talking about.
Flavor's yesterday play was very upsetting. I do think it could easily be to gas me up. And today the fact that he popped in one time but never again kinda makes me think he wants Andres and me to create a shitfest and both get yeeted.

[Noraa]

Geraint's ISO from that game:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

[Noraa]

Noraa you’re actually kind of annoying to play with. Most of your arguments have been laughable but you don’t see me quoting posts of yours and going LOL.

I am aware I am annoying.

[Noraa]

Well my reason is because he did the "I'm sorry give me another chance thing" but you also did it. I just don't have meta on you.

[Noraa]

Town!geraint from my experience was super stubborn.

[Noraa]

Well .... its like implied.

[Noraa]

u can think of it like that if u want.

[Noraa]

Hi NM!

[Noraa]

why the vote on unwnd?

[Noraa]

i know i usually do more harm than good as a VT, so i've kept my head down and let those with more info lead the way and avoided the 10 pages discussions between 2 heads

I just feel like town!you wouldn't feel the need to explain literally anything.

[Noraa]

U-U ok.

[Noraa]

In terms of prioritizing reads I'll try and make this like a step 1-step 2-step 3 process:

Spoiler:

The difference between town and mafia is an informed vs. and uninformed minority. Scum doesn't need to sort people like town does, they only need to pretend.

Put yourself here.

[noraa]

There are 9 people alive so there are 8 of them you need to sort.

Now ask yourself

"What do I know based on the current gamestate?"

You know that FL has claimed vig enabler, Dunn has claimed cop (with an innocent on n_m), Insano has claimed 1-shot bodyguard, PlusJOYED has claimed town vig.

Then ask yourself

"Is what I believe of the current gamestate to be true?"

This is not limited to power roles, rather your own perception of the game. In my own case, there is a

possibility

that one of these claims are not true, but this is where prioritizing reads comes in. I know that the chance to hit scum in these claims at this point is probably down to one or zero, based on my own perception of the game. Not to be a broken record, but I personally believe Nopoint claimed Watcher Enabler as he saw it would be a good thing to claim based on what was going on. This process is not limited to just claims, you could replace "what you know" as a pool of players you townread and the situation would apply the same.

In that sense, you move on. You can come back to this thought later. In practice, this brings your pool down to 3 if you are to believe all claims. This is way less stressful to sort than 8 people, because you narrow your field.

Then you ask yourself

"What is it I want to know about the current gamestate?"

I think this is a process you skip over because instead of saying this, you assert your disposition and say

"I am town, so I should know and anyone who is against me is scum".

You should try asking people in the form of questions about things you don't know/or want to understand. I think this will help your towngame as you never try to formulate your reads and instead they seem to always come out of nowhere based on aggression and gut feeling. Gut is fine, but then eventually gut will have to turn into evidence. People would be more inclined to listen to you if you presented an argument that seemed plausible. It doesn't have to be definitively true, it just has to seem believable from a perspective that you are actually an uninformed townie and your inquiries represent this.

I can't really read you saying 'well this is how scum!me' would act because I'm not you. Instead you should say "based on my experience, scum may have a tendency to do (this) because of (applied logic based on experience, gamestate). This is only a template, I'm not trying to mold you into myself. You can be aggressive and have gut reads and represent this in your playstyle, but in your head you should work having a goal in mind instead of just getting into baseless arguments that span 20 pages.

After this, you bring it all together. What you know. What you want to know. What you believe you know. Then you follow through, and your posts reflect that. Last tip: Don't let yourself think that you have to know or that you can't change your mind. Just don't become obsessed, and instead of changing your mind on 10 different things, you could instead focus on one or two things. This will keep you from being overwhelmed and even seeming unclear to others. Hopefully this made sense.

tysm <3
Imma have to read this a few more times for it to actually sink in much but I shall try my very best. Turning into you would be very honorable and I would love to even if it isn't Noraa.

[Noraa]

Im going to give this a try. Tell me if I'm doing good.

For the claimed:
Plus is the top of the pyramid as a confirmed vig - two kills last night. no cc.
Following closely is NM imo. Regardless of Dunn's alignment, NM is 99% of the time town. Scum clearing scum isn't common at all.
Right after is Dunn the cop that cleared NM.
Then Flavor. Vig enabler in a game that has a vig. Thats like 50% mech clear ig?
Thats the ordering for the claimed prs/enablers/cop clears.

Now for unclaimed/vanilla,
we have Unwnd, Andres, Insano, and geraint.
Top of this pyramid is definitely Unwnd. Unwnd has had all the traits I associate with their town game. Confidence. Leadership. Occasional hero solves. Mostly watching, observing, and then discovering.
The progression on Nopo doesn't look like scum theatre.

Honestly speaking I think Insano and Andres are tied. Theres a level of flailing that I'm seeing in Andres that looks like townie trying really hard to stay alive. His desperation of basically "The scum team is any team of {Insano, Geraint, Noraa} as long as I'm not in the team"
Insano has very good tone that seems super townie but I can't tell if its play style.

Very bottom is geraint. Too much soft mellow fluffiness. I think geraint as town is more stubborn and has this strong "I am right. fuck off" energy. This is like 100% meta based.

I'll try to do some ISOs but those trip me up pretty bad so many people are gonna turn into srs....

[Noraa]

Gonna group ISO Insano, Geraint, and Andres rn.

[Noraa]

Spoiler:

Hey Johnny. Yeah we’ve played... what is it, three times before? This would be the fourth if I’m not wrong. I lost 2 consecutive games as Town against Shelly Scum, and the third one she replaced out as Town (I was also Town). If I believed in policy executions, I would push for shellyc but that’s not my style. The entrance was simply an acknowledgement that Shelly knows what she’s doing as Scum.

why even mention something like this to begin with? Like bruh that's shady as hell. Ik shelly gets PLed pretty damn often and its normally cuz of dumb stuff like this.

hiya peeps.
recognise a few more names than normal.

this game started on the 4th of the 12th, wonder when we will be done by.

Geraintm should we expect much of the same from you D1 that I’ve seen in the past? Though to be fair, last time you were actually onto something D1, so maybe don’t sell yourself short?

More potential shade.....
Im currently thinking Andres is definitely scum. I think this does look like scum poking around(Even if its early) for soft spots where they can potentially park?

hiya peeps.
recognise a few more names than normal.

this game started on the 4th of the 12th, wonder when we will be done by.

Geraintm should we expect much of the same from you D1 that I’ve seen in the past? Though to be fair, last time you were actually onto something D1, so maybe don’t sell yourself short?

Which game are you referring to?
I am not expecting much more from me today than normal. Shall see after that....

definitely too meek...

Why didn't you vote? Also explain?

i voted in my post EXACTLY before that so...?

it was a joke. but newer scum often greet the entire thread as an opening. (no offense andres)

I’m not a newer player, and I try to be friendly as either alignment (at least to start). You’ll find plenty of games on my home site where I come in and greet people generally. It depends on my mood.

over explain-y. Greeting people isn't exactly something strange? No one asked for evidence for something this small.

UNVOTE:

I’m leaving Town on shellyc. I’ll catch up on the rest of the arguments later.

......................................well ... this TR sure was weak.

Automatic townie points to whoever votes Andre with me

Just out of curiosity, why do you think I’m a good push here?

self consciousness?

I’m also inclined to think that nopointinactingup is likely Town based purely on the fact that nobody jumped to their defense really. Fuzzy piled on in 143 to defend Dunnstral, and most others ignored the interaction for the most part. Flavor Leaf decided it was more important to make things about himself, so I don’t know what to make of that yet. Will keep reading.

This feels like a town!andres game

I get an intentionally passive vibe from FL atm

I don’t know what to make of Flavor here yet, but I expect Flavor’s intensity and analysis to pick up later this game. For now I’m null on the slot, but I will say that Flavor admitting that certain posts are performative, and generally not committing to any read doesn’t strike me as Scum!Flavor. Just food for thought.

I do think Andres is too quick to give flavor a town pass. It almost feels like TMI. Like this isn't town assuming. This is scum knowing.

You're here and that's cool

Flavor knows better to self-vote, he's supposed to be experienced. If you want to argue if anyone was being superfluous it was Flavor, and frankly I'm not gonna sit and entertain and neither should you. Unfortunately, Flavor has a huge ego. I know you're not probably not aware of it but it is always bordering anti-town, and usually when I find myself in conversations with him they end up with me leaving them empty, at least in the aspect of how he treats the game. Right now Flavor has sat here and said 'i tried to get the game started' but like I predicted nobody nibbled and now I've been left with an empty thought on what it all meant, so feel free to give your perspective Anders

Oh I’ve played with Flavor enough times to have a sense for the player that he is. But you know, Flavor is a far better Scum player than he is Town. It’s why they have a Scum guide and not a Town guide on their signature. So in a way, him not putting much effort into this game doesn’t immediately make the alarms in my head go off. If I spot anything I’ll put it out there, but for now, I’m not seeing Flavor Scum. Of course, Flavor doesn’t deserve to be TR after mostly talking about themselves. I was just saying - I mostly ignored the self-vote as a vanity play and moved on. I think you should too.

You were so keen on asking flavor for reads and stuff I almost thought you didn't know flavor's town games are terrible compared to his scum.

Giving players like Flavor no accountability allows to run amuck and do whatever the fuck he wants. I don't care if he's Don Corgi and I didn't care in the last game I played with him, his actions have to prove to me otherwise he's going to beneficial to town wincon

Yeah I agree Flavor needs to prove he’s Town. Of course. He has yet to do anything crazy though.

Again this crappy town pass. Andres says himself that flavor has a good scum game yet is this fast to just be like "ahaha its fine. Flavor is town"
I can see many possibilities and tho I'm confbiasing at this point, here's what I see:
1) scum pocketing out of fear
2) scum knowing flavor is town and so seeing the towniness more easily.

[Noraa]

I’m also inclined to think that nopointinactingup is likely Town based purely on the fact that nobody jumped to their defense really. Fuzzy piled on in 143 to defend Dunnstral, and most others ignored the interaction for the most part. Flavor Leaf decided it was more important to make things about himself, so I don’t know what to make of that yet. Will keep reading.

This is a terrible post btw. does look like scum theatre to some extent.

[Noraa]

@unwnd, ah but my point was not that you were instigating an attack. I made a strategic observation about what you could be doing as Scum. IF (admittedly a decently big if, but I would lean positive on their aggressive attitudes) Dunn and nopoint are both Town, then what you did would make a lot of sense as Scum. You chose a side despite the fact that you don’t particularly TR one side of the argument (you claimed to have done it for a friend, but that just seems like a potential pocket attempt to me), which sets you well for the next few days. If the fight continues (say, because you believe Dunn is stubborn), and we end up in a situation where one of them flips, you get to hide behind the person actually driving the attack. It happens often enough around these parts that I simply had to point it out.

this is really monologic-y and overly complicated for this early in the game. Feels unnatural.

@Unwnd I didn’t think it took a whole lot of sophisticated thinking to jump in there though.

Would you describe yourself as an experienced player?

So then you’ll forgive me for arguing that you are definitely capable as Scum of making the decision of jumping between nopoint and Dunn and taking a side.

Anyway, that’s enough of this point. I’ll let others come in and put their own thoughts forward.

This interaction is pretty dumb if u ask me.

@Titus, can you walk me through your vote on shellyc? I’m trying to figure out if there’s anything I’m missing.

Oh you really don't wanna lead a mislim wagon lol. You're literally begging Titus to lead it for u.

[Noraa]

83 is an implied read, I'm not sure how you see it as a slip instead

There is a real fine line between making implied reads and subconsciously blurting out prior knowledge.

yeah last game I said someone was in town..... I meant to make it sound like a town read . I am not sure if that what happening here but I think it something I need to keep my eyes on

Dunnstral - why do you think that Shlly is town as you gave zero indication why you have that read


@ FL- how can you tell. Doing a little more of nothing still gets you nothing. Anways Not Mafia is giving all indication of his town game. He did this last game as town and in the other game I saw where he is town.

We should prob sort FL and Titus. Both are good players and can be dangerous if they are scum. Just my humble opinion

huh..how am I defending Dun...... I am confused as I did not attack or defend Dun but was trying clarify the motivation for their actions.

I didn’t directly address this. Fuzzy I don’t think you have to come out guns blazing to defend someone. You directly empathized with Dunnstral, no? You are indirectly saying in 143 that you’ve done as Town in a different game what nopoint is arguing is actually a Scum slip. Now, this isn’t to say that I don’t agree with your point. In fact, I do. I do the exact same thing as Town, where I plainly state that I think someone else is Town (in other words, it doesn’t necessitate a Scum perspective). I think your statement that you’ll keep an eye out for what’s to come is exactly what I intend to do.

This is confusing.

You don't know this

Unless, of course, he's scum. In which case he does know it. Which begs the question how do YOU know he's not scum?

I merely commented on a post where I think someone was displaying too great overconfidence in a read on day 1. no one can say things like that [outside the obvious scum/mason type roles]. I always dislike people being too confident in their day 1 abilities to read the game. anyone who sits there and builds a scum team day 1, I will just ignore for a while.

flavour has just caused us to waste 2 or 3 days through their vote

When you get far past enough knowing not to self vote, you reach an area where it starts to be okay again.

.

this is a perfect example of someone disappearing up their own arse because of trying to be too smart...

VOTE: unwnd

i'll elaborate when im off work

this needs to come. not going to let shelly get away with a vote and apromised explanation and it never appearing....

Yeah ... way too mellow. Im going to continue just ISOing Andres and Insano and treat geraint as confscum.

[Noraa]

I should have expected that response.

I’m not seeing it, so I’m trying to get more than justifications based on the self-vote play. Flavor clearly posted reads - anything that raised some flags from that?

^that’s an open question to anybody on the wagon.

Haha u realllllllly don't wanna join a wagon without making sure someone else is confident enough to push it thru and take the blame

Clearly not everybody on the Flavor wagon is Scum. There’s something fascinating about nopoint + Dunn + unwnd all agreeing that this vote makes sense based on how the beginning of the day played out. Titus has been largely absent so I don’t really read too much into that vote to be totally honest (it could be Scum piling on, particularly if Flavor is Town, but it could easily be Town that is going through the motions too), and Not_Mafia will do their thing (I’m not getting the same positive vibes as last game so I don’t know if Not_Mafia is Town, but the reputation is there for a reason). So what’s going on?

This is a lot of shade thrown at people that are dead and conftown

[Noraa]

@Titus I think you’re being somewhat unfair in your response. I would note that you hadn’t really clarified the why you hadn’t read but decided to vote anyway until your last post. I don’t question people’s real life motivations/excuses. That’s a dangerous road to go down and I assume that people play in good faith unless it’s shown otherwise (and convincingly so). You will note that your vote has been followed by a quasi-naked vote from Not_Mafia, and there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of activity even though Flavor is E-2. Your vote also clearly makes Flavor the leading vote getter, instead of making it look more spread out. I didn’t mean dangerous in the sense that Flavor could get randomly executed, but rather that it creates a strong sense of momentum.

why so confident flavor town???????

anyone else wanna join the notmafia wagon?

I think you should consider moving to a wagon that has a higher chance of success. Though I believe that your push for Not_Mafia is genuine, I can’t see it happening today just yet.

Defends flavor. Then tries to sneakily get him more votes :/

ok imma stop posting every few iso posts. I'm gonna dump a huge wall later.

[Noraa]

Defends flavor. Then tries to sneakily get him more votes :/

ok imma stop posting every few iso posts. I'm gonna dump a huge wall later.

Oh also TMI for Plus town.

[Noraa]

Stop bickering with another. Let her come to her own conclusions

Moreover, Noraa I want you to entertain the idea of being wrong just for a second

Where do you go next?

hm im not sure. lets say Andres flips town, I probably die tomorrow because flavor seems to want me dead more than anything and no one else is even doing shit. Its personal and its stupid as hell that he's carrying bias like that and openly admits it too.

[Noraa]

I think we need to stop townreading flavor for mysterious 'he wouldn't play like this' reasons and hold him to a higher standard, that means elimming him when his play is bad/scummy

I don't trust anyone's read on him that has him as town at this point in time

I don’t understand this post at all. Where has anyone uttered a TR of Flavor based on the fact that he wouldn’t “play this way as Scum”? Can you point me to it? Because off the top of my head, I don’t recall anyone really making that argument.

What specifically about his play has been Scummy to you? Outside of him obviously SR’ing you, how do you think his approach is not from a Town POV?

Ok wait sorry I need to post this before it gets lost in the wall. This is stupid as hell.

For flavor, you assume he's town and then look to see if anything contradicts.
For me, you assume I'm scum and then look to see if anything contradicts.
wtf.
Like it seems to me like you TRed him just for the pocket but then I came along and u were like "oh haha this ones not pocket material. this ones limbait"

[Noraa]

Is there anything based on your push of Andres that you're uncertain about?

recent posting is decent. most of the shitty push on me is very bad tho.

[Noraa]

Spoiler:

You're townreading someone who has the audacity to fucking self-vote and then play it off like he was trying to initiate town's motivation

Do you think the audacity is scum!AI?

Because I don't

"FL won a game openwolfin'" does not change that

FL has the capacity to openwolf but here I see it as being much less image-concerned and more spontaeous/rough

@Dunnstral, the closest anyone has gotten to potentially aligning with what you’re saying from skimming through a few ISOs would be this. And even then, this isn’t really focused on what Flavor would do as Scum, but it looks to me more of a theoretical point about how Town don’t seem to care about how they come across, and want to solve the game, and how what Flavor was doing up to that point fit that idea. I can keep looking, but I think your post is more of an attempt at discouraging people from TR’ing Flavor more generally, and using it as an excuse to SR anybody that defends Flavor.

Look I’m fine with being wrong. Flavor is hard to sort. But I haven’t really seen anything particularly convincing.

I still stand by my opinion that the defense on flavor is weird. I've seen shelly's defense on flavor but it was nothing like this.

andres do you townread FL?

whats your read on unwnd?

I’m not ready to stick my neck out completely for Flavor. But you would agree that Flavor is a good player as Town and not just Scum yeah? So I am of the opinion that we should at least try and give Flavor some time to actually show their alignment and not just execute there because of a self-vote. We have enough players with a sufficiently strong reputation I think that we can quickly turn against Flavor if necessary.

I find it hard to believe that there’s this many people that are quite certain that Flavor is Scum when I’ve literally come out of several games where Flavor was impossible to eliminate even when Flavor was openly pushing a narrative that defied several events that had occurred throughout the game.

Curious as to why if flavor get slack for being a good player, unwnd doesn't? As far as I'm concerned unwnd's townplay is 20x better than Flavor's.

@unwnd I feel some frustration at the fact that there’s just not enough engagement from several players this game. But I’m still trying my best to put out reasonable reads. I just have a few relatively soft reads, and nothing I would fully go to war for. My strongest TR is probably shelly, but I’ve been fooled before so I want to see how this game goes before I solidify that.

I could see this coming from town. This reeks of paranoia. At the same time, generally after being fooled by a player, you tend to be too paranoid of them for them to be ur top tr in ur next game together.

^I would maybe disagree on nopoint though. I don’t see the slot as Scummy. I thought that acknowledgment that the slip maybe wasn’t that to be a Towny response.

very short. perhaps because he wants to avoid his scum buddy?
Like his defenses on Flavor and Shelly are all like suuuuper long blocks but this one on nopo is super short.

Sorry for being away I got distracted with a few things over the weekend.

I’m fine with my vote for now. I think there’s something for sure to be figured out between Dunn/Flavor. I also find that there’s a few people dancing around it, and more than a few attempts at moving it away, which means this hits one way or the other I think. Which explains why I’m comfortable sitting here.

The problem is that he has hard TRed flavor all of this game. I think from that perspective there is no Dunn/Flavor dilemma and no figuring out to do? Like he's not taking a clear stance when he has voiced a hard TR on flavor all game. I feel like this is kinda a "if consensus starts shifting towards flavor, imma clear out a pathway for myself rn"

Titus, Town Cop Enabler, was killed Night 1!

I claim cop

I can see that.

If you don’t get a CC I will trust that this is true and you are Town. However, this also means that you performed a check last night yeah? Who did you target?

Just thinking strategically, anybody who was voting a vanity wagon yesterday deserves scrutiny. I think the Scum intentionally wanted to avoid having the Town actually consolidate, which we need to do a better job of.

I’ll put my vote here for now - VOTE: shellyc

There is no progression. And I have to say Titus dead really does not be shelly scum at all. Considering scum has nopo, their nk's are always gonna be on some important role. Nopo is really really good at finding prs. I've mentioned this before.

To elaborate on how i find titus/dunn/N_M scummy

titus' vote on FL was to "get momentum" despite a few wagons competing for momentum. titus did not explain why he picked the FL wagon.

1. Titus [0]:
2. Andresvmb [2]: geraintm#33, JohnnyFarrar#232
3. unwnd [1]: shellyc#292
4. Flavor Leaf [3]: nopointinactingup#293, unwnd#339, Dunnstral#343
5. Hank Spankems [0]:
6. shellyc [1]: Titus#172
7. PlusJOYED [0]:
8. Not_Mafia [2]: Hank Spankems#69, PlusJOYED#365
9. JohnnyFarrar [0]:
10. geraintm [0]:
11. TheFuzzyLogic99 [0]:
12. Dunnstral [2]: Flavor Leaf#381, Andresvmb#403
13. nopointinactingup [1]: Not_Mafia#157

this was the latest VC when titus posted his vote. it is clear that multiple players had 2-3 votes.

N_M quickly jumped onto the FL wagon bringing it to E-3 soon after titus had voted. the close proximity of these votes is out-of-place.

dunn voted FL for reasons basically voiced as a "policy" for "bad/scummy play". the bad part seems a bit like preparing for a town!FL flip and explaining "well he played bad"

which brings FL to E-2.

these votes which lack real conviction makes me really dislike this wagon.

i wont compromise on FL

i agree with the sentiment that N_M is a "policy launch" and scum can easily jump on a town!N_M

i'd give titus a shot for further contributions tbh

I would launch dunn today. as well as {nopoint, johnny}

I think shellyc has exposed herself with these posts. I think shellyc should be flipped so we can clear everybody suspected here.

This is pretty bad honestly. Shelly loves bussing and this is something you said a while ago too. Yet you just straight up are like "they are town if shelly is scum"
Like 1) this is definitely shady(a little bit) to Dunn and NM and 2) I know shelly flips town so then you get to be like "oh well .... ig Dunn and NM aren't conftown"?????

At the same time, it’s rather odd that the Scum would pick Titus as the kill. Titus was barely participating, and the only person they seemed to be gunning for was shellyc. There is a possibility here that we’re being played. Having said that, shellyc actively saying that they would look to join Dunn, but then end up on her own vanity wagon and failing to consolidate was not a good look. Frankly, I didn’t realize that no majority meant no one died. I would have played with more urgency towards the end of the day if I had seen that.

In one of my town games, the night 1 nk was a person that basically only talked about me and how I was scum. I died a day 2 lim for those arguments.
You're trying to not take blame for nolim here and u hid it in a paragraph.
I definitely do not like this post.

I’m not saying Titus was absolutely right and Shellyc is surely Scum. I just came out of a game where Titus was horrendously wrong repeatedly. But precisely for that reason, the Scum could think that they can get away with taking out Titus with few consequences.

???????????????????????????????
"Titus kill means shelly scum"
"well but its also possible it doesn't"

Why so pessimistic geraitnm? There’s still a lot left on this day and some legitimate avenues of inquiry are being pursued.

I don’t think nopoint is Scum. And I TR Johnny now. So I will continue to vote where I’m at. Sorry shelly. If I need to consolidate onto Flavor I might just do that, but again I continue to be skeptical there to some extent.

This kinda fits into my theory of nopo tying himself to Johnny.
I think Andres is really trying too hard to stay on everyones good side. Pocketing the people that he think will be able to guide game state and soft buddying those with potential. The 1v1 with me is solely because he's run out of options at this point.

Thinking...

I doubt that Titus was killed (mainly) bc she was on scum. She might of been. My thinking is this because of the lack of a kill yesterday. Titus is a dangerous town player. It seems that she was killed because of her skills. I am prob wrong but I dont think scum feel very threatened atm. This is bc the disunity of the town

@Fuzzy, I have a different view of how Scum tend to conduct NKs. I don’t think the Scum eliminate the players that are just strong in a vacuum, though of course that plays somewhat of a role. I am more of the mentality that you eliminate for one of two reasons: (i) game state control, or (ii) immediate threats. So of course you try and nuke PRs, as they are a threat, but also anybody that has an actual good sense of who is what, and will be listened to.

If you think Titus is a strong player, then why wouldn’t you also assume that they could have been right about what they were pushing?

Ur just trying to say it's shelly. Like all this "Titus died shelly is scum" line of thought is tiring and annoying and stupid.

Also Hank hasn’t posted in 5 days, and from ISO’ing there (very little content, so you should go take a look), they were happy to just go along with the wrong Town view that was forming yesterday.

If you asked me, I would say Hank is trying to play as deep Scum. The other tell I’m seeing is that they keep saying that they’ll contribute, and to give them time, but then they don’t, and just keep finding excuses. I’ve done that before as Scum.

The hypocrisy is not lost. Earlier someone told me he didn't care what I did or didn't do as scum. Yet here we are.

@Fuzzy, geraintm, I suggest you begin putting votes down and actually making your views known, because you’re making the game harder than it has to be. Fuzzy you didn’t even vote yesterday.

holy damn why is Andres so FUCKING SCUMMY?
Its very concerning that someone that's not a newbie is this damn scummy.

fwiw i now sorta want to reverse my unwnd read

I feel like unwnd wants to strongarm the gamestate here

@unwnd talk to me about this post. Are you really all that sure about your view of the game? You seem to be partly defending two players {Shellyc, Flavor} that are more than happy to vote for you and throw you under the bus, because they post a lot? Quantity of posting for the two of them is not indicative of anything at all. Particularly for those two.

Like I don’t think this is *that* complicated either. Shellyc was pushing multiple players yesterday that are now either Confirmed Town or very likely Town mechanically. Pushing a Town player in and of itself is whatever - we can all be wrong. But the mechanical part of it - that was not planned. And so that is obviously forcing me to focus on Shelly again. The weirdest part (and Titus spoke about this too) is that shellyc had a universe where she thought {Not_Mafia, Dunnstral, Titus} could be Scum. But her vote to end the day was on nopoint. That clearly demonstrates that Shellyc wasn’t eager to compromise and consolidate, which is Scummy behavior in context.

You’ll also remember that I had Shelly as my top TR yesterday. I don’t know where you’re getting the idea that my pre-conceived notions pointed to Shelly Scum, or that the argument I made was that Shelly’s meta pointed to her being Scum. But maybe you could point to where I did.

Hello. Here to fix this shitshow of a game. Have been following along somewhat passively and have general reads but need to do a full readthrough. Top of my head had andres and fuzzy as town at a glance, see Dunn has claimed an innocent on N_M, would put mafia in {unwnd, FL, noraa, plusjoyed, johnny, gera, nopoint}. Just as a preliminary grouping.

shelly's start looks pretty town, goes together with noraa's replace-in looking town.

nopoint's vote on Dunnstral early on page 4 looked bad the first time I saw it, doesn't look any better on a reread.

I don't feel like high efforting right now.

VOTE: nopointinactingup

Haven't liked the votes/pushes hes made, early townread of Johnny came across way too confident for what he'd done especially seeing as how at the time he was trying to string up dunn for a similar early townread.

Also @plusJOYED I could buy your theory about the NK and Shellyc being framed. I need to think about that some more.

*sigh* I'm tired. I'll continue later.

[Noraa]

For example, I directly stated that I would not push for a policy execution of shellyc because that’s not how I play, and that I look to evaluate players in a game based on the merits. Noraa’s interpretation? That I was looking for a policy execution of shellyc. So regardless of what I actually said (or the fact that I gave shellyc a TR early) I was *looking* for a PL because well, it fits the narrative. It’s a bad faith argument.

when did I ever say that.

[Noraa]

Can you shut up until I finish my ISOs.

[Noraa]

Ur annoying as hell. Im taking unwnds advice, going back and reading, and ur just refuting absolutely everything. Stop.

[Noraa]

Isos are obviously gonna end up not giving full context and I'm going to cherry pick and ignore posts I find not useful. Im going to skim. Theres going to be problems. But you telling me about how bad faith I am is not helping so stop.

[Noraa]

You don't have to run up and be like "LETS PL SHELLY" for the idea to be suggested.
By calling her a scary scum and saying you've been fooled, you've already shaded her.

[Noraa]

Andres is trying pretty hard to drown me out here.

[Noraa]

In post 765, Andresvmb wrote:
In post 745, shellyc wrote:
fwiw i now sorta want to reverse my unwnd read

I feel like unwnd wants to strongarm the gamestate here

@unwnd talk to me about this post. Are you really all that sure about your view of the game? You seem to be partly defending two players {Shellyc, Flavor} that are more than happy to vote for you and throw you under the bus, because they post a lot? Quantity of posting for the two of them is not indicative of anything at all. Particularly for those two.

Why do you feel the need to mention that both would be fine with voting unwnd? Andres not scum with unwnd.

In post 781, Andresvmb wrote:
Like I don’t think this is *that* complicated either. Shellyc was pushing multiple players yesterday that are now either Confirmed Town or very likely Town mechanically. Pushing a Town player in and of itself is whatever - we can all be wrong. But the mechanical part of it - that was not planned. And so that is obviously forcing me to focus on Shelly again. The weirdest part (and Titus spoke about this too) is that shellyc had a universe where she thought {Not_Mafia, Dunnstral, Titus} could be Scum. But her vote to end the day was on nopoint. That clearly demonstrates that Shellyc wasn’t eager to compromise and consolidate, which is Scummy behavior in context.

I mean this describes ur stance pretty well except you didn't have the guts to push so you shaded instead.

In post 782, Andresvmb wrote:
You’ll also remember that I had Shelly as my top TR yesterday. I don’t know where you’re getting the idea that my pre-conceived notions pointed to Shelly Scum, or that the argument I made was that Shelly’s meta pointed to her being Scum. But maybe you could point to where I did.

You don't know anything of her meta if u think this was her scum game.

In post 874, Insanoflex wrote:
Hello. Here to fix this shitshow of a game. Have been following along somewhat passively and have general reads but need to do a full readthrough. Top of my head had andres and fuzzy as town at a glance, see Dunn has claimed an innocent on N_M, would put mafia in {unwnd, FL, noraa, plusjoyed, johnny, gera, nopoint}. Just as a preliminary grouping.

Andres and Fuzzy as town ............?!
Why is that the first observation

In post 876, Insanoflex wrote:
shelly's start looks pretty town, goes together with noraa's replace-in looking town.

nopoint's vote on Dunnstral early on page 4 looked bad the first time I saw it, doesn't look any better on a reread.

Ok ok Im liking the nopo read. there wasn't too much pressure on nopo at this time if I remember correctly so bussing probably is not the first thought

In post 877, Insanoflex wrote:
I don't feel like high efforting right now.

VOTE: nopointinactingup

Haven't liked the votes/pushes hes made, early townread of Johnny came across way too confident for what he'd done especially seeing as how at the time he was trying to string up dunn for a similar early townread.

OOOOO I like this too!!

In post 906, Andresvmb wrote:
Also @plusJOYED I could buy your theory about the NK and Shellyc being framed. I need to think about that some more.

You can buy any theory that conftown suggest. We've gathered as much. Too agreeable.
I feel like Andres' play this game has been like "I think blah. Oh you think something else? Ohh I see. That is possible"

[Noraa]

I think I like Insano a lot more. The opening TR on Andres was interesting and could possibly make my read reverse but I'm not certain quite yet.

[Noraa]

Andres is just another flavor which I have trouble sorting people who think drowning people out is the way to prove ur town or something like that.

[Noraa]

by saying "if Noraa flips Scum, then look at plus", you are casting doubt upon his alignment. That is shade.

[Noraa]

You are too agreeable to what plus suggests.

[Noraa]

My point is that u barely have moments where ur just like "no that's not true"
you normally say "I believe this but I COULD SEE THAT"
its agreeing.
the end result doesn't particularly matter otherwise we'd never catch scum as long as they bus one member.

[Noraa]

@unwnd you’ll notice now that Noraa has been forced to change their narrative about how my read of shellyc changed, without directly addressing it. Instead, now it’s a story of how I didn’t have the guts to push shellyc, even when confTown plus was disagreeing with me.

This is a great example of the bad faith I was talking about. If it doesn’t fit one way, it sure fits some other way.

I didn't say that. don't lie.

[Noraa]

I've shaded all of this plist at this point. I gain nothing from it as scum but yeah, I'll stop cuz its not helpful at all.

[Noraa]

Plus you couldn't actually think this is scum Noraa could you?
You've played with scum Noraa so many times. She is mellow. She is nice. She is meek. She is agreeable. What do you see here that even faintly resembles my scum game?

[Noraa]

Pfft that is a gross misrepresentation of your Scum game Noraa. All anybody has to do is go read the game I quoted, where you couldn’t get out of a tunnel and were supremely abrasive.

Which one was that?
And also I think I, a person that has written every single post I've posted and read every single post know better what my meta is that some random person that briefly skimmed a few pages of one of my scum games.

[Noraa]

You have zero finished games with me and therefore, no right to comment on my meta.

[Noraa]

Btw I agree I should be Vigged if Noraa flips Town if only to force the Town to look closer at what’s happening this game.

this is very dumb. wtf is this logic?

[Noraa]

Town never thinks that they are fine with dying if their top SR flips town. That is not a townie mindset.

[Noraa]

Also stop trying to gas me up. The shitfight is over and continuing it is truly babyish.

[Noraa]

I'm just going to continue to ignore the Noraa show and go back to rereading, thanks. If anyone has any questions for me, bold my username because I'm likely going to be skimming past the pages of pointless arguments she generates.

Fair enough .... lol.

[Noraa]

Unwnd what do you think of Andres and my conversation?
I feel like people not in it see more clearly.

[Noraa]

Plus consider what I said. I've been in multiple games with you. When I was town, I always died fast. Yet when I was scum, everyone loved me. You know deep in your heart what color role pm I got.

[Noraa]

Plus consider what I said. I've been in multiple games with you. When I was town, I always died fast. Yet when I was scum, everyone loved me. You know deep in your heart what color role pm I got.

Think of Haunted Village.
Think of So many bats.

[Noraa]

Plus, you know. You really do.

[Noraa]

I just went thru So many bats and randomly scrolled thru and picked up some quotes. There is a HUGE tone difference. Take a look.

Spoiler:

not funny and not helpful!

ooo is this post here that u posted helpful or funny?

Redados why did you vote Noraa?

was very frustrated at her and felt like my vote was the most powerful way I could show my anger

now that I have calmed down, I will leave my vote where it is.

This is terrible reasoning
I'm calling it
We have a scum!Redados

I'm not aggressive...
especially while shelly's here for comparison lmao
meh basically u dont have observations then imo
I'm always more relaxed in games I dont replace into ... I think?
not too sure yet but I think that's how I am
anyways I dont think I've done anything here that I wouldn't also do as scum yet so I feel like it'd be weird if anyone had a solid and good read on me rn.
Also this game's funny. Everyone blows up the thread on day 1 of day 1 and then after that there's just complete silence

Funblock so far is Odd Day Jester/Norwee/Mundivore

I'm okay with this bloc for now. Noraa's a promising prospect I'm looking at as well.

Pedit: Clear lack of what?

yes yes add me
I'm loaded since Jackson and Saudade still owe me money. I'll buy my way into this clownblock

wow my whole read had two similarities to urs!
SHOCKING

My read rn:
Mundivore-town
bugspray-3rd scum?
JacksonVirgo-town
duppin-town
MiniMegabyte-town
Tayl0r Swift/Grendel-town
Odd Day Jester-town
shellyc-scum
Saudade-town
Redados-scum
UNOwen-town
NorwegianboyEE-3rd scum?

My current scum team I think is:
Shelly
Redados
Norwee/bugspray

I'm not at all confident in this scumteam tbh. In fact I'm 100% sure its definitely not completely correct like it might have 1 or 2 of the scum team but I highly highly doubt this is the actual solve of this game. However I'm putting this read out there to start some questions/conversations about me introducing what I think currently, is the scum team. Bring in the questions and I'll try my best to answer and adjust my reads if what is said is reasonable.

Bc my current guess for the scum team is
Redados
Shelly
Norwee/bugspray

From most confident to least confident and I'm kinda wanting to replace the last slot that I have close to zero confidence on with Taylor

No I TR grendel but SR Taylor and since Taylor is the one currently in the slot, then my TR on Grendel means nothing

I dont see why you should be disappointed. I played one game as scum with u which basically means I didn't get any meta on u. literally nada. also *sigh* that does sound like AtE -______-
anyways I won't hold it against u cuz u specifically said [no AtE here] but if I wrongly push town!Taylor, apologies in advance bc I'm fairly certain I will be pushing ur wagon due to the pretty strong scum vibes I get from u. however this game, I am paying attention so if I realize its just ur playstyle that's scummy, u will get the benefit of the doubt next round I play with u.

All of his SRs have zero good reasoning/logic/evidence backing them up

that's a role?
I thought he was joking or something

Uno compromise wagon on Saudade slot?
Hectic?
Norwee?
Redados?
Taylor?
Shelly?
@everyone?

Saudade lim today? anyone up for it?

Redados lim isn't gonna go thru bc most the stuff that happened there was us being salty.
Duppin is still pretty towny besides the fact that he can't back up some stuff
plus is just full of plusiness and not too scummy so far

Saudade lim is the answer to everyone's problems imo

2007 join date does not equal LHF.
lets not have a pointless argument about why BM isn't LHF
its clear asf that he isn't

Hectic join me on BM.
I caved in and am not going to vote bugs.
I took a step back. will u be doing the same?

noraa explain that trajectory and why you changed from SR to TR

I explained it multiple times. go find it.

[Noraa]

I was capable of faking a reads list, going around asking people for opinions, starting wagons, asking people to ask wagons, and get widely TRed. These quotes show it.

[Noraa]

Plus consider what I said. I've been in multiple games with you. When I was town, I always died fast. Yet when I was scum, everyone loved me. You know deep in your heart what color role pm I got.

it's day 3 that's not really helping your case?

I repped in.

[Noraa]

Why don’t you quote some of your arguments with Battle Mage?

Sure thing! Lets take a look at how I drove that wagon.

Spoiler:

it would be so much nicer and easier to analyze this game if shelly and noraa didnt together make up over a third of all the posts dammit

It would also be nice if u had some actual reads + evidence to back any of them up.

it says im at 4 votes but theres only 3 names?

Fixed.

i have a solution

VOTE: plusjoyed

I dont like that you hop on the largest wagon with zero reason.

my initial scumreads from a glance, are:

Norweg
Hectic
Shelly

this is the shittiest SR list I've seen so far with two of the literal towniest damn players in it.

scum-city, from scummiest to least
duppin
shellyc
Mundivore
NorwegianboyEE
Hectic

neutral-ville no particular order
3. bugspray
4. PlusJOYED
6. davesaz
7. Tayl0r Swift
11. Redados
12. UNOwen

town-land
Noraa
Battle Mage

I dont want a free town pass. wtf.

did i claim yet? if not, i'm a VT

I hate this. VOTE: BM

scum-city, from scummiest to least
duppin
shellyc
Mundivore
NorwegianboyEE
Hectic

neutral-ville no particular order
3. bugspray
6. davesaz
11. Redados
12. UNOwen

town-land
PlusJOYED
Tayl0r Swift
Noraa
Battle Mage

1) u just voted plus
2) Taylor claimed a pr so ur just trying to be safe

I was fine with Saudade. Bm is not doing Saudade's slot any justice if Saudade was town but now I'm convinced BM is scum.

Saudade wagon where y'all at?

Lets lim this slot

Uno compromise wagon on Saudade slot?
Hectic?
Norwee?
Redados?
Taylor?
Shelly?
@everyone?

we need to get a full on wagon together asap.
BM is looking like the best choice rn imo

He comes in votes the biggest wagon
buddies Taylor and tries to pocket me(we were both in his town reads with zero reason why)
then he jumps to the duppin wagon for zero reason. This also happens to be another major wagon rn.
He then starts TRing plus for ??? reasons
Then his SR is literally Hectic, Norwee, and Shelly
like wtf
two of the downiest players here and shelly, whose playstyle gets her killed day 1 just about everywhere

Bm is the Saudade replacement, shelly

SAUDADE WAGON WHERE YOU AT?

YALL HAVE CONVINCED ME(not really I convinced myself)
but anyways. I am very sus of this slot rn

Saudade lim today? anyone up for it?

Redados lim isn't gonna go thru bc most the stuff that happened there was us being salty.
Duppin is still pretty towny besides the fact that he can't back up some stuff
plus is just full of plusiness and not too scummy so far

Saudade lim is the answer to everyone's problems imo

Im not SRing him for not vibing with my reads
ur just randomly accusing
I stated clearly my reasoning

We need a lim asap and the new replacement is just not hitting right.
I suggest a BM lim.
It's put together a bit roughly on my part but I think its better than all the other choices for today
If I'm wrong, fuck
but I think this ones likely right

Place your vote on Saudade

[Noraa]

And you don’t see how abrasive you can be as Scum?

am I driving that aggressively?

[Noraa]

am I telling everyone to vote you?

[Noraa]

It’s almost what you’re doing here - just calling everything terrible or dumb, using a bunch of sarcasm to bash arguments that get closer to you or your Scummates. Arguing complete nonsense and twisting somebody’s posts to all look like Scum. You were directly called out for that in that game, or you forget?

I was UTR in that game. did u even read?

[Noraa]

Early game makes shelly/nopoint look not implausible, actually, although I've no idea who would fit as a 3rd teammate in that instance.

I would argue early game doesn't make any team look implausible.

[Noraa]

I've no interest in replying to any more meta accusations from someone that didn't even skim properly.

[Noraa]

The day 1 elimination thought I was scum and that was it lol. u really didn't skim well.

[Noraa]

I think early game shows strong evidence for unwnd as town.

ooo where? I very much like this theory!

[Noraa]

Lol ur gonna go link some posts from after I got guiltied?

[Noraa]

No your point doesn't stand. I was UTR but I got guiltied for being too towny so I didn't live til the end.

[Noraa]

Lol ur gonna go link some posts from after I got guiltied?

Why do you think you were checked? Any guesses? Because you were the paragon of Town?

And the Battle Mage post I quoted came in D1. Try again.

I WAS BATTLE MAGES TOP TR. HE WAS WEAK FN THAT CRUMBED HIS VISIT TO HIS TOP TR NORAA HARD. THERE WAS DOUBLEKILL NIGHT 1. NO SHIT I WAS GUILTIED.

If you can't skim properly, then don't.

[Noraa]

And the Battle Mage post I quoted came in D1. Try again.

that post u quoted doesn't even have anything to do with me soooo

[Noraa]

Again, I’m not pointing to that game for the actual outcome. I’m pointing to that game so that others can understand how you react under pressure as Scum. You went whiny and aggressive. Just like you’re doing here. You’re overly focused on the result - not so focused on how you respond.

you did some jackshit skimming and come pointing ur damn finger at me. none of ur points stand even remotely cuz u fucking skimmed like hell.

I am using this game to show I'm town bc this game DOES SHOW IM TOWN. But u are trying so hard to say it doesn't when u can't even get some simple facts right.

[Noraa]

@PLUSJOYED

Andres is trying hard to drown out my meta case so I packaged it nicely here:

Spoiler:

Plus consider what I said. I've been in multiple games with you. When I was town, I always died fast. Yet when I was scum, everyone loved me. You know deep in your heart what color role pm I got.

Plus consider what I said. I've been in multiple games with you. When I was town, I always died fast. Yet when I was scum, everyone loved me. You know deep in your heart what color role pm I got.

Think of Haunted Village.
Think of So many bats.

I just went thru So many bats and randomly scrolled thru and picked up some quotes. There is a HUGE tone difference. Take a look.

Spoiler:

not funny and not helpful!

ooo is this post here that u posted helpful or funny?

Redados why did you vote Noraa?

was very frustrated at her and felt like my vote was the most powerful way I could show my anger

now that I have calmed down, I will leave my vote where it is.

This is terrible reasoning
I'm calling it
We have a scum!Redados

I'm not aggressive...
especially while shelly's here for comparison lmao
meh basically u dont have observations then imo
I'm always more relaxed in games I dont replace into ... I think?
not too sure yet but I think that's how I am
anyways I dont think I've done anything here that I wouldn't also do as scum yet so I feel like it'd be weird if anyone had a solid and good read on me rn.
Also this game's funny. Everyone blows up the thread on day 1 of day 1 and then after that there's just complete silence

Funblock so far is Odd Day Jester/Norwee/Mundivore

I'm okay with this bloc for now. Noraa's a promising prospect I'm looking at as well.

Pedit: Clear lack of what?

yes yes add me
I'm loaded since Jackson and Saudade still owe me money. I'll buy my way into this clownblock

wow my whole read had two similarities to urs!
SHOCKING

My read rn:
Mundivore-town
bugspray-3rd scum?
JacksonVirgo-town
duppin-town
MiniMegabyte-town
Tayl0r Swift/Grendel-town
Odd Day Jester-town
shellyc-scum
Saudade-town
Redados-scum
UNOwen-town
NorwegianboyEE-3rd scum?

My current scum team I think is:
Shelly
Redados
Norwee/bugspray

I'm not at all confident in this scumteam tbh. In fact I'm 100% sure its definitely not completely correct like it might have 1 or 2 of the scum team but I highly highly doubt this is the actual solve of this game. However I'm putting this read out there to start some questions/conversations about me introducing what I think currently, is the scum team. Bring in the questions and I'll try my best to answer and adjust my reads if what is said is reasonable.

Bc my current guess for the scum team is
Redados
Shelly
Norwee/bugspray

From most confident to least confident and I'm kinda wanting to replace the last slot that I have close to zero confidence on with Taylor

No I TR grendel but SR Taylor and since Taylor is the one currently in the slot, then my TR on Grendel means nothing

I dont see why you should be disappointed. I played one game as scum with u which basically means I didn't get any meta on u. literally nada. also *sigh* that does sound like AtE -______-
anyways I won't hold it against u cuz u specifically said [no AtE here] but if I wrongly push town!Taylor, apologies in advance bc I'm fairly certain I will be pushing ur wagon due to the pretty strong scum vibes I get from u. however this game, I am paying attention so if I realize its just ur playstyle that's scummy, u will get the benefit of the doubt next round I play with u.

All of his SRs have zero good reasoning/logic/evidence backing them up

that's a role?
I thought he was joking or something

Uno compromise wagon on Saudade slot?
Hectic?
Norwee?
Redados?
Taylor?
Shelly?
@everyone?

Saudade lim today? anyone up for it?

Redados lim isn't gonna go thru bc most the stuff that happened there was us being salty.
Duppin is still pretty towny besides the fact that he can't back up some stuff
plus is just full of plusiness and not too scummy so far

Saudade lim is the answer to everyone's problems imo

2007 join date does not equal LHF.
lets not have a pointless argument about why BM isn't LHF
its clear asf that he isn't

Hectic join me on BM.
I caved in and am not going to vote bugs.
I took a step back. will u be doing the same?

noraa explain that trajectory and why you changed from SR to TR

I explained it multiple times. go find it.

I was capable of faking a reads list, going around asking people for opinions, starting wagons, asking people to ask wagons, and get widely TRed. These quotes show it.

Why don’t you quote some of your arguments with Battle Mage?

Sure thing! Lets take a look at how I drove that wagon.

Spoiler:

it would be so much nicer and easier to analyze this game if shelly and noraa didnt together make up over a third of all the posts dammit

It would also be nice if u had some actual reads + evidence to back any of them up.

it says im at 4 votes but theres only 3 names?

Fixed.

i have a solution

VOTE: plusjoyed

I dont like that you hop on the largest wagon with zero reason.

my initial scumreads from a glance, are:

Norweg
Hectic
Shelly

this is the shittiest SR list I've seen so far with two of the literal towniest damn players in it.

scum-city, from scummiest to least
duppin
shellyc
Mundivore
NorwegianboyEE
Hectic

neutral-ville no particular order
3. bugspray
4. PlusJOYED
6. davesaz
7. Tayl0r Swift
11. Redados
12. UNOwen

town-land
Noraa
Battle Mage

I dont want a free town pass. wtf.

did i claim yet? if not, i'm a VT

I hate this. VOTE: BM

scum-city, from scummiest to least
duppin
shellyc
Mundivore
NorwegianboyEE
Hectic

neutral-ville no particular order
3. bugspray
6. davesaz
11. Redados
12. UNOwen

town-land
PlusJOYED
Tayl0r Swift
Noraa
Battle Mage

1) u just voted plus
2) Taylor claimed a pr so ur just trying to be safe

I was fine with Saudade. Bm is not doing Saudade's slot any justice if Saudade was town but now I'm convinced BM is scum.

Saudade wagon where y'all at?

Lets lim this slot

Uno compromise wagon on Saudade slot?
Hectic?
Norwee?
Redados?
Taylor?
Shelly?
@everyone?

we need to get a full on wagon together asap.
BM is looking like the best choice rn imo

He comes in votes the biggest wagon
buddies Taylor and tries to pocket me(we were both in his town reads with zero reason why)
then he jumps to the duppin wagon for zero reason. This also happens to be another major wagon rn.
He then starts TRing plus for ??? reasons
Then his SR is literally Hectic, Norwee, and Shelly
like wtf
two of the downiest players here and shelly, whose playstyle gets her killed day 1 just about everywhere

Bm is the Saudade replacement, shelly

SAUDADE WAGON WHERE YOU AT?

YALL HAVE CONVINCED ME(not really I convinced myself)
but anyways. I am very sus of this slot rn

Saudade lim today? anyone up for it?

Redados lim isn't gonna go thru bc most the stuff that happened there was us being salty.
Duppin is still pretty towny besides the fact that he can't back up some stuff
plus is just full of plusiness and not too scummy so far

Saudade lim is the answer to everyone's problems imo

Im not SRing him for not vibing with my reads
ur just randomly accusing
I stated clearly my reasoning

We need a lim asap and the new replacement is just not hitting right.
I suggest a BM lim.
It's put together a bit roughly on my part but I think its better than all the other choices for today
If I'm wrong, fuck
but I think this ones likely right

Place your vote on Saudade

And you don’t see how abrasive you can be as Scum?

am I driving that aggressively?

am I telling everyone to vote you?

[Noraa]

STOP TALKING TO ME.
I REPEAT. STOP.

I'm about to solidly ignore every single thing you say if you keep engaging me in bad faith.

[Noraa]

I think early game shows strong evidence for unwnd as town.

ooo where? I very much like this theory!

Not now. I'm going to present my conclusions when I've gotten to the end of day 2, or at least up to my replace in. I want to get everything nicely compiled.

awesome. I might do an unwnd iso in a bit to see if I can come to the same conclusions.

[Noraa]

@PLUSJOYED

Andres is trying hard to drown out my meta case so I packaged it nicely here:

Spoiler:

Plus consider what I said. I've been in multiple games with you. When I was town, I always died fast. Yet when I was scum, everyone loved me. You know deep in your heart what color role pm I got.

Plus consider what I said. I've been in multiple games with you. When I was town, I always died fast. Yet when I was scum, everyone loved me. You know deep in your heart what color role pm I got.

Think of Haunted Village.
Think of So many bats.

I just went thru So many bats and randomly scrolled thru and picked up some quotes. There is a HUGE tone difference. Take a look.

Spoiler:

not funny and not helpful!

ooo is this post here that u posted helpful or funny?

Redados why did you vote Noraa?

was very frustrated at her and felt like my vote was the most powerful way I could show my anger

now that I have calmed down, I will leave my vote where it is.

This is terrible reasoning
I'm calling it
We have a scum!Redados

I'm not aggressive...
especially while shelly's here for comparison lmao
meh basically u dont have observations then imo
I'm always more relaxed in games I dont replace into ... I think?
not too sure yet but I think that's how I am
anyways I dont think I've done anything here that I wouldn't also do as scum yet so I feel like it'd be weird if anyone had a solid and good read on me rn.
Also this game's funny. Everyone blows up the thread on day 1 of day 1 and then after that there's just complete silence

Funblock so far is Odd Day Jester/Norwee/Mundivore

I'm okay with this bloc for now. Noraa's a promising prospect I'm looking at as well.

Pedit: Clear lack of what?

yes yes add me
I'm loaded since Jackson and Saudade still owe me money. I'll buy my way into this clownblock

wow my whole read had two similarities to urs!
SHOCKING

My read rn:
Mundivore-town
bugspray-3rd scum?
JacksonVirgo-town
duppin-town
MiniMegabyte-town
Tayl0r Swift/Grendel-town
Odd Day Jester-town
shellyc-scum
Saudade-town
Redados-scum
UNOwen-town
NorwegianboyEE-3rd scum?

My current scum team I think is:
Shelly
Redados
Norwee/bugspray

I'm not at all confident in this scumteam tbh. In fact I'm 100% sure its definitely not completely correct like it might have 1 or 2 of the scum team but I highly highly doubt this is the actual solve of this game. However I'm putting this read out there to start some questions/conversations about me introducing what I think currently, is the scum team. Bring in the questions and I'll try my best to answer and adjust my reads if what is said is reasonable.

Bc my current guess for the scum team is
Redados
Shelly
Norwee/bugspray

From most confident to least confident and I'm kinda wanting to replace the last slot that I have close to zero confidence on with Taylor

No I TR grendel but SR Taylor and since Taylor is the one currently in the slot, then my TR on Grendel means nothing

I dont see why you should be disappointed. I played one game as scum with u which basically means I didn't get any meta on u. literally nada. also *sigh* that does sound like AtE -______-
anyways I won't hold it against u cuz u specifically said [no AtE here] but if I wrongly push town!Taylor, apologies in advance bc I'm fairly certain I will be pushing ur wagon due to the pretty strong scum vibes I get from u. however this game, I am paying attention so if I realize its just ur playstyle that's scummy, u will get the benefit of the doubt next round I play with u.

All of his SRs have zero good reasoning/logic/evidence backing them up

that's a role?
I thought he was joking or something

Uno compromise wagon on Saudade slot?
Hectic?
Norwee?
Redados?
Taylor?
Shelly?
@everyone?

Saudade lim today? anyone up for it?

Redados lim isn't gonna go thru bc most the stuff that happened there was us being salty.
Duppin is still pretty towny besides the fact that he can't back up some stuff
plus is just full of plusiness and not too scummy so far

Saudade lim is the answer to everyone's problems imo

2007 join date does not equal LHF.
lets not have a pointless argument about why BM isn't LHF
its clear asf that he isn't

Hectic join me on BM.
I caved in and am not going to vote bugs.
I took a step back. will u be doing the same?

noraa explain that trajectory and why you changed from SR to TR

I explained it multiple times. go find it.

I was capable of faking a reads list, going around asking people for opinions, starting wagons, asking people to ask wagons, and get widely TRed. These quotes show it.

Why don’t you quote some of your arguments with Battle Mage?

Sure thing! Lets take a look at how I drove that wagon.

Spoiler:

it would be so much nicer and easier to analyze this game if shelly and noraa didnt together make up over a third of all the posts dammit

It would also be nice if u had some actual reads + evidence to back any of them up.

it says im at 4 votes but theres only 3 names?

Fixed.

i have a solution

VOTE: plusjoyed

I dont like that you hop on the largest wagon with zero reason.

my initial scumreads from a glance, are:

Norweg
Hectic
Shelly

this is the shittiest SR list I've seen so far with two of the literal towniest damn players in it.

scum-city, from scummiest to least
duppin
shellyc
Mundivore
NorwegianboyEE
Hectic

neutral-ville no particular order
3. bugspray
4. PlusJOYED
6. davesaz
7. Tayl0r Swift
11. Redados
12. UNOwen

town-land
Noraa
Battle Mage

I dont want a free town pass. wtf.

did i claim yet? if not, i'm a VT

I hate this. VOTE: BM

scum-city, from scummiest to least
duppin
shellyc
Mundivore
NorwegianboyEE
Hectic

neutral-ville no particular order
3. bugspray
6. davesaz
11. Redados
12. UNOwen

town-land
PlusJOYED
Tayl0r Swift
Noraa
Battle Mage

1) u just voted plus
2) Taylor claimed a pr so ur just trying to be safe

I was fine with Saudade. Bm is not doing Saudade's slot any justice if Saudade was town but now I'm convinced BM is scum.

Saudade wagon where y'all at?

Lets lim this slot

Uno compromise wagon on Saudade slot?
Hectic?
Norwee?
Redados?
Taylor?
Shelly?
@everyone?

we need to get a full on wagon together asap.
BM is looking like the best choice rn imo

He comes in votes the biggest wagon
buddies Taylor and tries to pocket me(we were both in his town reads with zero reason why)
then he jumps to the duppin wagon for zero reason. This also happens to be another major wagon rn.
He then starts TRing plus for ??? reasons
Then his SR is literally Hectic, Norwee, and Shelly
like wtf
two of the downiest players here and shelly, whose playstyle gets her killed day 1 just about everywhere

Bm is the Saudade replacement, shelly

SAUDADE WAGON WHERE YOU AT?

YALL HAVE CONVINCED ME(not really I convinced myself)
but anyways. I am very sus of this slot rn

Saudade lim today? anyone up for it?

Redados lim isn't gonna go thru bc most the stuff that happened there was us being salty.
Duppin is still pretty towny besides the fact that he can't back up some stuff
plus is just full of plusiness and not too scummy so far

Saudade lim is the answer to everyone's problems imo

Im not SRing him for not vibing with my reads
ur just randomly accusing
I stated clearly my reasoning

We need a lim asap and the new replacement is just not hitting right.
I suggest a BM lim.
It's put together a bit roughly on my part but I think its better than all the other choices for today
If I'm wrong, fuck
but I think this ones likely right

Place your vote on Saudade

And you don’t see how abrasive you can be as Scum?

am I driving that aggressively?

am I telling everyone to vote you?

[Noraa]

Insano protects Plusjoyed tonight.

[Noraa]

Any other protectives claim vt and just protect plus tonight is my opinion.

[Noraa]

Btw, I have an opinion that is super controversial but it could be right. I thought about the game quite a lot last night and my solve's changed again.

In the poe, I am confident insano is town. This is not going to change again I don't think.

The other three are mashing around in my head and the solve's pretty constantly changing.

Currently am thinking geraint/unwnd

I'm very concerned by unwnd's lack of prescence and lack of wking me. I don't have that much experience with unwnd but I do think that town!unwnd is not afraid at all to hard WK me which they have done before. And I'm not seeing it here. That other game was a similar situation where I also repped in and unwnd immediately was like "This is town" and brushed away all the SRs on me. Unwnd does seem to think I'm town here but its all fuzzy and I feel this kinda hesitance to stand out for me.

[Noraa]

I claim vt.

[Noraa]

Noraa I think right now you are town

Is this right?

Scum noraa leaves the room with a bunch of unanswered questions and exaggerated stances that she can use in order to hop on bad wagons if nobody is paying attention. I didn't see her trying to force credibility through happy bubbly personality and I don't think she's grown enough as a player yet to establish nuance

She's very attuned to her emotions, but the inquisitive and curious aspect of her shines more when she's town. I think she has a hard time of faking that as scum, so she hardly gets there and make de-facto reads

[Noraa]

But how do I get hear when whenever I try to voice an opinion, someone stomps on it?

[Noraa]

*heard

[Noraa]

sure my opinions might be wrong and OMGUS-y but enough time and space will get me out of those tunnels. If each post of mine gets squished and squashed however, how am I supposed to do anything?

[Noraa]

I'm not stomping on it, I consider your perspective but I have to also consider the intent behind your posts as well

People aren't robots, you should practice a bit of empathy and consideration

no. u aren't stomping on my reads. Flavor and Andres are.

[Noraa]

Plus would shoot me which is utterly stupid but whatever.