Yellowstone

[Guillotina]

@Toog - as I have asked before, what reads do you have on the playerlist other than HW?

I'll worry about that later.

I would like to know now actually, so that we can see your current view of the gamestate for transparency ahead of flips/NKs. I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for your position on more than 1 player.

Speaking of which, where is pig at? I really think that a replacement on that slot would be to everyone's benefit, if they are not going to actively participate.

If you want me out of this game you’re gonna have vote me out or night kill me. I’m still finding my feet as a player. But I’m not gonna quit.

I’m sorry I don’t post 6 times on every page like some people.

You don't have to post 6 times per page, but I got more fingers in both of my hands that you got in posts and only one of them is actually a good post.

[Guillotina]

@Toog - as I have asked before, what reads do you have on the playerlist other than HW?

I'll worry about that later.

I would like to know now actually, so that we can see your current view of the gamestate for transparency ahead of flips/NKs. I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for your position on more than 1 player.

Speaking of which, where is pig at? I really think that a replacement on that slot would be to everyone's benefit, if they are not going to actively participate.

If you want me out of this game you’re gonna have vote me out or night kill me. I’m still finding my feet as a player. But I’m not gonna quit.

I’m sorry I don’t post 6 times on every page like some people.

You don't have to post 6 times per page, but I got more fingers in both of my hands that you got in posts and only one of them is actually a good post.

Well, then my percentage of good posts is roughly the same as some of those people who post non-stop just to look like they're participating.

Such as who?

[Guillotina]

@Toog - as I have asked before, what reads do you have on the playerlist other than HW?

I'll worry about that later.

I would like to know now actually, so that we can see your current view of the gamestate for transparency ahead of flips/NKs. I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for your position on more than 1 player.

Speaking of which, where is pig at? I really think that a replacement on that slot would be to everyone's benefit, if they are not going to actively participate.

If you want me out of this game you’re gonna have vote me out or night kill me. I’m still finding my feet as a player. But I’m not gonna quit.

I’m sorry I don’t post 6 times on every page like some people.

You don't have to post 6 times per page, but I got more fingers in both of my hands that you got in posts and only one of them is actually a good post.

Well, then my percentage of good posts is roughly the same as some of those people who post non-stop just to look like they're participating.

So you've been reading the amount of posts to notice that but you just didn't bother to comment?

[Guillotina]

@Toog - as I have asked before, what reads do you have on the playerlist other than HW?

I'll worry about that later.

I would like to know now actually, so that we can see your current view of the gamestate for transparency ahead of flips/NKs. I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for your position on more than 1 player.

Speaking of which, where is pig at? I really think that a replacement on that slot would be to everyone's benefit, if they are not going to actively participate.

I wasn't aware that my opinion of multiple players was going to affect the actions of others during the evening so greatly. My apologies.

Are you not aware this is a party game?

[Guillotina]

VOTE: Infinity

This feels like a good place to start. Of the 4 people that joined the Mom wagon after me, I am willing to bet one was scum and I don't think it was DGB tbqh.

Also

FOS Math

for driving a wagon especially hard against what turned out to be a VT. I think a lot of us thought horse was scummy, but not with the massive levels of confidence that he had. As toog and I also pointed out D1, his late D1 posts setting out chain elims in the event that horse flipped town now look rather sus.

Do you think Infinity/Math could be w/w?

[Guillotina]

Oh fuck that looks bad for me lmfaoo, I'm a N1 vigilante. I am not sure where the hell the mofia kill went. I would have assumed the scum was within Momrangal, Toogeloo, DGB so I shot within the trio. If it helps I also softed vigilante with my vig talks yesterday.

How would you be sure where the mafia kill went anyway?

[Guillotina]

Also

FOS Math

for driving a wagon especially hard against what turned out to be a VT. I think a lot of us thought horse was scummy, but not with the massive levels of confidence that he had. As toog and I also pointed out D1, his late D1 posts setting out chain elims in the event that horse flipped town now look rather sus.

Math does look like he came to Momrangal rescue. I hope there is a cop and checked one of those two.

Momrangal mason claim seemed like she was joking at first but when she saw we were taking the claim seriously and asked to confirm it she said she never jokes about claims.
Math confirmed this and immediately took a proactive role in pushing her counterwagon which is what a town leader would do to save the mason slot from a misyeet. But the situation developed and a few flags rised.

1) We were not anywhere near the EoD, why did Math felt the need to defend her so much?
2) How did Math came to the conclusion that HW had to be the scum slot after claiming of just skimming through?
3) Why did he focus on HW only even after Momrangal's wagon dissipated. He never showed hesitation.
4) Why didnt he consider other counterwagons as options for elimination such a Toogeloo? Instead he proposed Infinity who was never consensus for elimination.
5) I worked hard to get townread by my fellow townies, so it is greatly appreciated when someone says that they townread me, Math did, but he never said why? Now is the time to tell me that Math.
6) Math pressuring others into voting HW, me included, whom he townreads feels a bit scummy.
7) Marky raised a great point when he questioned Math about he saying that he'd push people leaving HW wagon if she flipped town. Felt like setting up people who ever considered not voting for HW.
8) If Math is scum, he's been breadcrumbing association with me, when i called him out about it, he ignored it.


I'm guilty of pushing HW hard but i had my doubts. By the end of the day my gut was telling me she was town but my brain was telling she was scum. In one of my games i was so wrong about my gut suspect so i didnt want to make the same mistake here. I'm sorry Horsewoman.

[Guillotina]

Oh fuck that looks bad for me lmfaoo, I'm a N1 vigilante. I am not sure where the hell the mofia kill went. I would have assumed the scum was within Momrangal, Toogeloo, DGB so I shot within the trio. If it helps I also softed vigilante with my vig talks yesterday.

How would you be sure where the mafia kill went anyway?

Not sure atm - I was rather hoping Math would explain his weird random infinity vote last thing on D1 yesterday before he hopped back to HW

I wonder why Marky is answering a question for Jackson.

And regarding your FoS I was wrong. I admit that. But now it’s time to hunt the deep wolves that caused the scenario. The odds were more likely she was scum and I take those odds every time in my spot. Day one is an incomplete day and now we can go back and look at who was being wagoned and why the Horsewoman wagon started and there we probably find scum. There were two wagons iirc that converged onto Horsewoman and idled. There had to be a reason for that.

VOTE: Infinity iirc No elim was one of the d1 wagons.

It was obvious that he quote the wrong post.

[Guillotina]

What do you reckon Guillo? Who are your main SRs off the back of the HW and Toog flips?

I stillthink Noraa and Flea could be scum. My gut on Math is swingy at the moment.

[Guillotina]

Oh fuck that looks bad for me lmfaoo, I'm a N1 vigilante. I am not sure where the hell the mofia kill went. I would have assumed the scum was within Momrangal, Toogeloo, DGB so I shot within the trio. If it helps I also softed vigilante with my vig talks yesterday.

How would you be sure where the mafia kill went anyway?

Not sure atm - I was rather hoping Math would explain his weird random infinity vote last thing on D1 yesterday before he hopped back to HW

I wonder why Marky is answering a question for Jackson.

And regarding your FoS I was wrong. I admit that. But now it’s time to hunt the deep wolves that caused the scenario. The odds were more likely she was scum and I take those odds every time in my spot. Day one is an incomplete day and now we can go back and look at who was being wagoned and why the Horsewoman wagon started and there we probably find scum. There were two wagons iirc that converged onto Horsewoman and idled. There had to be a reason for that.

VOTE: Infinity iirc No elim was one of the d1 wagons.

And regarding your FoS I was wrong. I admit that. But now it’s time to hunt the deep wolves that caused the scenario. The odds were more likely she was scum and I take those odds every time in my spot.

That was not the tone you were using yesterday tho.

Like I could literally take my pick from your ISO but eg

Look at Math, feeling like a boss and scum hunting from a skim read, how adorables.

Got a problem with it? Take it up with my recent mason game where I was a mason and freaking outed the team and just didn’t push hard enough to get them. I will not make that mistake.

Horsewoman is scum.

Horse is almost certainly scum because of what I did before combined with how protown scum could look by elimming Horse if she was town. Scum not taking that means Horse is likely scum.

Your tone has now moved substantially from seeing her as "almost certainly scum" to "odds were more likely she was scum"

DO literally take your pick from his ISO instead of shading it.

[Guillotina]

If there is nothing significant, why you sus her? Explain please.

Gut reads and overall tone. Nothing significant and nothing worth building a case on.

#212 is interesting though, what are you trying to achieve with this reads list?

Notes for my future self and my teammates, should I die, they can look into my ISO.

Can you please explain this G? How would you “gain” teammates?

Where did i say

GAIN TEAMMATES??

[Guillotina]

If there is nothing significant, why you sus her? Explain please.

Gut reads and overall tone. Nothing significant and nothing worth building a case on.

#212 is interesting though, what are you trying to achieve with this reads list?

Notes for my future self and my teammates, should I die, they can look into my ISO.

Can you please explain this G? How would you “gain” teammates?

Where did i say

GAIN TEAMMATES??

Future self and teammates? Future teammates. It’s right there?

No. My future self and my teammates. Who are the teammates who would need to search for my ISO should they ever need my legacy?

[Guillotina]

Also

FOS Math

for driving a wagon especially hard against what turned out to be a VT. I think a lot of us thought horse was scummy, but not with the massive levels of confidence that he had. As toog and I also pointed out D1, his late D1 posts setting out chain elims in the event that horse flipped town now look rather sus.

Math does look like he came to Momrangal rescue. I hope there is a cop and checked one of those two.

Momrangal mason claim seemed like she was joking at first but when she saw we were taking the claim seriously and asked to confirm it she said she never jokes about claims.
Math confirmed this and immediately took a proactive role in pushing her counterwagon which is what a town leader would do to save the mason slot from a misyeet. But the situation developed and a few flags rised.

1) We were not anywhere near the EoD, why did Math felt the need to defend her so much?
2) How did Math came to the conclusion that HW had to be the scum slot after claiming of just skimming through?
3) Why did he focus on HW only even after Momrangal's wagon dissipated. He never showed hesitation.
4) Why didnt he consider other counterwagons as options for elimination such a Toogeloo? Instead he proposed Infinity who was never consensus for elimination.
5) I worked hard to get townread by my fellow townies, so it is greatly appreciated when someone says that they townread me, Math did, but he never said why? Now is the time to tell me that Math.
6) Math pressuring others into voting HW, me included, whom he townreads feels a bit scummy.
7) Marky raised a great point when he questioned Math about he saying that he'd push people leaving HW wagon if she flipped town. Felt like setting up people who ever considered not voting for HW.
8) If Math is scum, he's been breadcrumbing association with me, when i called him out about it, he ignored it.


I'm guilty of pushing HW hard but i had my doubts. By the end of the day my gut was telling me she was town but my brain was telling she was scum. In one of my games i was so wrong about my gut suspect so i didnt want to make the same mistake here. I'm sorry Horsewoman.

1) Because derp quick hammers happen. I literally just got out of a mason game where scum tried unsuccessfully to do that when I replaced in as a mason. I generally have a good feel for masons and who their partners are especially here imho where the partner crumbed pretty well imho.
2) The VCA was very damning. I haven’t seen a stall for so long with almost no activity be town. The day was nearing apathy levels and I wanted to make sure Mom wasn’t elimmed. It felt even if I was wrong it was better.
3) That’s what you have to do on a scum wagon that’s stalled. You can’t allow scum to fish. Again I don’t regret the play I regret the end result.
4) I didn’t consider Toog because the VCA didn’t really line up that way. I also didn’t trust consensus due to the Mom wagon. It just didn’t feel right to wagon hunt and safer for Horsewoman.
5) I just get vibes when I work with people and my inner voice said you were town. At that speed level I go by gut and then reassess as night goes on. My inner voice agreed you’re probably town but if we don’t elim scum today to consider you as deep wolf tomorrow.
6) Again, so? I can take the heat. I did what I thought was best.
7) End of day felt SvT so pressure was warranted.
8) No I wasn’t. I assuredly wasn’t doing such with you. I don’t know how you got that idea.

5) why tomorrow? Why not today? What difference would it make from Day 2 to Day 3? It smells like yet another set up.

[Guillotina]

If there is nothing significant, why you sus her? Explain please.

Gut reads and overall tone. Nothing significant and nothing worth building a case on.

#212 is interesting though, what are you trying to achieve with this reads list?

Notes for my future self and my teammates, should I die, they can look into my ISO.

Can you please explain this G? How would you “gain” teammates?

Where did i say

GAIN TEAMMATES??

Future self and teammates? Future teammates. It’s right there?

No. My future self and my teammates. Who are the teammates who would need to search for my ISO should they ever need my legacy?

Yay speed reading at midnight fun!

I gotta work now but this is what happens when I speed post.

We'll be here. I got a lot more questions for you.

[Guillotina]

I'm not experienced enough with PR mechanics to know whether massclaiming would be useful here, but happy to go with the majority consensus

This feels like ... “let's do the anti-town play but as long as I can have an excuse to do it”.

[Guillotina]

I'm not experienced enough with PR mechanics to know whether massclaiming would be useful here, but happy to go with the majority consensus

This feels like ... “let's do the anti-town play but as long as I can have an excuse to do it”.

Bro that's like the shade of the century I played a couple of games in 2014 and then started playing again couple months ago due to pandemic-induced boredom. I literally have never been in a massclaim and have no ideas of the tactical considerations that go into whether one ought to be made.

On the other hand, we have a bunched of experienced players in the plist so I kinda thought I'd listen to them

It's not a shade, it's what that post actually made me feel. My thoughts to post process got no filter.

Yah im looking forward to see who agrees to a mass claim and put a red flag over their goddamn head.

[Guillotina]

VOTE: Marky Mark

Just swapping back to gut part two.

Leave your questions G. Will respond as I can. I am incredibly nervous about something you said and I want time to formulate my thoughts on if it’s protown to even mention.

Anything that should be said, must be said for clarity sake.

[Guillotina]

Also, I was right about horsewoman and imma be snarky about it

VOTE: Noraa

Here is your medal. You knew Horsewoman was town very early in the game. How or Why?

[Guillotina]

Was town before, but stopped being towny towards the end of the day which worries me.

What was not Townie by the end of the day?

His aggression and sorting from earlier in the day turned into a very forgettable presence. It felt like he was saying stuff just to say it. The progression on horse, from thinking she said some towny stuff to going back to scumreading her didn’t feel particularly genuine. The response to flea’s case felt...not as flippant as I expected. The case was bad enough imo that I think most would be really frustrated by it as town and guillo instead seemed to give more validity to the case than it had.

That's very vague. Provide quotes.

What stuff was I saying just to say it?

[Guillotina]

Was town before, but stopped being towny towards the end of the day which worries me.

I Was town before? How does one stop being being part of an alignment?

I am town and im not getting yeeted.

[Guillotina]

can someone fill me in on the important stuff that happened in the last like 20 pages or something?

a) Math pushed Horse hard, flipped VT
b) Toogolo got shot by yours truly, mafia kill went poof bye bye.
c) DGB says they may or may not know something about the missing mofia kill, and suggested a mass-claim.
d) Others says mass-claim is not smart, maybe the mason decides what happens as they're close to conftown.
e) Noraa came in asking what's happened
f) Jacko came in with a list of what's happened.
g) Jacko prepares to press the submit button
h) Jacko presses the-

who claimed vig? the masons are confirmed now and who are they?
Why tf would DGB suggest mass claim. that's stupid.
Ok fun good summary.

The masons are confirmed or are you PR hunting?

[Guillotina]

who claimed vig? the masons are confirmed now and who are they?

Jackson claimed responsibility for the Toog kill.

Ohhhh. Ok so possibilities are
1) Jacko is scum
2) Jacko and scum double killed toog (Trust me this is possible. Last time I was vig, the scums and me killed the same person and that's why the doc on that person didn't work)
3) Jacko is vig and something happened to the scum kill

I think 3 is the most likely, and I think 1 is way more likely than 2. I don’t see why scum would shoot toog if not to semi-confirm a vig claim.

VOTE: guillo I’m gonna trust math here, but reluctantly. The last time I let a scumread go because of a soft they were scum.

I am not sure if he’s scum or not. I kinda wanna see where this plays out. I think he probably is but am not like sure sure.

Oh so you went from hardcore townreading me yesterday to you thinking i probably am scum in less than 12 hours after the n1 result?

[Guillotina]

Im not suspicious of you. My reason to TR you is gone and now you are a null.

What reason was that? Elaborate please.

[Guillotina]

Can we not do this? Scum already have more info than they should. I’m pretty sure math is town.

So you state that scum already have more info than they should and then you say you are pretty sure Math is town.

That's contradicting!

[Guillotina]

I quoted a lot of guillo's end of day and it's even worse than I thought. Very little of it has a scumhunting purpose, and there's a lot of LAMIST and pocketing of math and mark.

Spoiler:

I'm going to put my vote on

VOTE: Momrangal

Momrangal/Toogeloo/DGB are the people I'm most suspicious of right now and momrangal is the one with the pressure in the game so I will add to that!

Rule of three means Toog and/or DGB prob scum with her

Toog I'd believe it. Why DGB?

o

VOTE: Horsewoman

why the backflip here?

VOTE: Horsewoman

Horsewoman and Toog based on skim of VCs

What about VCs enables you to be remotely as confident as you are about this

I townread your counterwagon. I don't townread you.

I'm going to put my vote on

VOTE: Momrangal

Momrangal/Toogeloo/DGB are the people I'm most suspicious of right now and momrangal is the one with the pressure in the game so I will add to that!

Rule of three means Toog and/or DGB prob scum with her

Toog I'd believe it. Why DGB?

Rule of three says anytime scum list three names there’s a high likelihood one or more is scum to maintain credibility/gamestate. It’s not a sure fire thing but it’s more likely. I am still catching up but generally I look for things like that and see if they are supported by the gamestate

I don't think she'd name both? Too risky. Don't you think?

Horse is still town

If not Horse, who else would you yeet as of now?

Horse is still town

Horse is still town despite voting a mason.

Funny.

Vote horse or you’re scum with her.

I don't like the tone of this.

What happens if Horse flips town then? How would you read Infinity then?

Let every player cast their vote without pressure, it's easier to sort wagons and vanity wagons out that way.

Let’s just say that the game looked to be miseliming a mason claim I believe. So I did what I had to do to stop it.

The mason claim was never going to be limmed (hammering would be a scumclaim) so this worry isn't real but the ego feels towny.

You didn't believe it was a real claim and you were voting her. Of course the worry could be real.

Let’s just say that the game looked to be miseliming a mason claim I believe. So I did what I had to do to stop it.

The mason claim was never going to be limmed (hammering would be a scumclaim) so this worry isn't real but the ego feels towny.

You didn't believe it was a real claim and you were voting her. Of course the worry could be real.

Stuff like this makes me think infinity is scum.

If he thought the mason claim was fake his vote is okay.

If he thought the mason claim was real why vote her if town?

I really just think it’s Horse+Infinity and maybe I was wrong on Toog.

I would wanna flip Horse to see if that assumption is correct.

Yah but infinity is not saying that he believed the claim was real, and he didnt as Momrangal had to confirm for him to remove his vote. So, i think it is genuine.
What he is saying is that if you were certain that Momrangal was Mason, you couldn't have felt worried, which is not necessarily AI but it is wrong! Because the wagon was going up fast in votes and she could have been yeeted at that rate.

I don't think she'd risk claiming Mason when nobody has claimed and risked getting counterclaimed by the actual Masons if they exist here.

... if she is a fake and

she is baiting real masons

and the real masons take the bait, that's like 1 for 2 from a scum perspective.
tho

normally scum try to bait out roles

like vig or cop I'll admit.

I believe the claim but ur reasoning for believing it are dumber than having no reason imo.

No! They never would try to outright bait for Masons in a themed game! LOL They would hunt for PRs ALWAYS!!!

Also, two Masons counterclaiming does not guarantee their demise during the night for a "1 for 2!" Are you for real!? They become town clears and PRs will confirm/protect/watch those town clears, hence why scum will not try to attack them on Night 1! You always protect the town clears over everyone else this early game! Get out of here!

So yah! I don't think she'd risk claiming Mason when nobody has claimed and risked getting counterclaimed by the actual Masons if they exist here still stands!

Good job at looking dumber while calling other people dumb.

Right, I have at least read the last 13 pages. Digesting it all and applying scrutiny will happen at an undisclosed date TBC

UNVOTE: Momrangal - because eliming a claimed mason would be bad. Cool things that came out of this wagon include:
--Premature claim - being elimed overnight from E-2 seems like overcaution to me (++TR for JV asking the same question that was in my head ref this in 793). This being said, I reckon the claim is probably legit because would be a massive risk to fake-claim mason and get counterclaimed.
--789 from flea casting doubt over the mason claim confused me - @Flea: why don't you believe the claim?
--973 is a mahooosive stretch from noraa to try and shade DGB by implying they were avoiding the thread in case mom got hammered in the meantime

Math makes a good argument ref infinity's seemingly inconsistent position on Mom ref whether he believed their claim or not

BUT

the bigger question is why did Toog vote there after the claim? I was TRing them before this wagon but their behavior (vote there after the claim then subsequently unvote) just straight-up confuses me. Wondering if TSTBS

Guillo is swinging ++TR of the back of the last 10 pages or so - I won't quote any single post as it is more the consistent proactiveness and analysis. @Guillo - I have skimmed your response to me ref why you SR me so thanks for taking the time to articulate that and I'll take the time to properly read it and respond tomorrow IRL.

++SR Pig for 858 - his only contribution of the back off all that drama was his unvote and some IIOA (checkout me learning all the lingo!)

Keen to hear from Flea ref why they weren't convinced ref the mason claim and from toog ref his post-claim vote. These are two potential smoking guns right now IMO

VOTE: Toogeloo seems like a good place to be for now. Ref horse, I need to look at her more as stuff like 683 where she defends Mom just feels ++TR. If they were scum and looking likely the most likely elim today then why would they try to defend the next most likely elim target at the time?

I love this post and looking forward to your response to my read on you.

I'm willing to eliminate Toogeloo if Horsewoman and Noraa yeets are out of question today.

In order of preference: Noraa, Horsewoman, Toogeloo

Pig, i'd like to request a Prod, im not yeeting that slot today as it would give us no information.

And how did they play in previous games?

Not sure.
I've played two games with him.
One where he was town and got nk'ed for softing pr hard.
The other where he was scum and doomed his slot.

Lies. Three games.

230 normal - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84936

Open 800 - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=84885

Xenoblade 2 - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=84949

Why not? I would even if it was not directed at me. Do you recommend other players to ignore it? Are you not going to read my equally long reply to that long post? What if i said that my long wall post is more readable than Faer as the fonts were colored to stand out (unless you got ocular problems of course).

To me it was important to reply to her antagonizing ill intended long post on me, i think it is important you read it and my reply to it as well.

Clearly I am not recommending other players ignore it - it would be great if everyone read every post in the game. I am, however, a pragmatist, so I was just giving the advice that shorter, more concise dives would probably get more widely read. A lot of it also felt very speculative/borderline confbiased, which I noted you picked up in your response (tbqh I skimmed your response, but will read as time allows). An example of this confbias/stretching is you having them as null in your reads list, which tbf I found odd but made sense when you explained it.

Yah honestly several shorter chunks would have been great.

Thank you for your responses. You are out of my scum list. I wanna town lean you but i wanna be cautious too, you are in probation instead (null)

This means my PoE got shorter for now.

Noraa, Toogeloo, Flea

I’m not 100% on horse, she looked quite towny in response to the guillo push earlier though and I don’t want to elim her today.

Notice anything similar?

Infinity imho has a word choice he uses as scum to defend his buddies.

Sorry but i dont judge based on meta from other games.

Then what about the VCA from this one?

What does it tell you?

Give me something that says why you townread Horse instead of just “no”.

I don't townread Horsewoman i just have doubts about her being scum, in fact i'm looking at her closely today to confirm something.

I'm here to rock your worlds yo!

This is something that at least gives insight on you and can hopefully help others see why I townread you. We need more posts like this. I disagree with the no meta thing but I get it as I used to be a no meta player. People please go into detail like G is when you post. Please.

Bruh this is too much. Like im very wary when people put me on a pedestal like that cause

Positive Reality Support

exists and elimination by associations exists too.

Positive Reality Support.

Gaslighting is a manipulation technique used to deny a person’s reality in order to make them doubt their own mind, intuition, and perception of events. The term comes from a play/movie where a husband dismisses as merely imagined his wife’s notice of the gas lights being dimmed, while he indeed inadvertently dimmed the lights by using gas lights elsewhere to search for jewels of a woman he has murdered. Gaslighting is often contrasted to the

positive support of player

‘realities’, but that support can also be feigned and twisted to mafia advantage. In fact the two are often commingled so that it becomes confusing to separate harm from an appearance of support – a passive-aggressive chipping away of player confidences, tricking them into being unsure of anything.

Imagine if you actually flipped scum, this post could associate me with you and get me misyeeted.

Let's townread each other for the right reasons, i understand my sit in your town list is not guaranteed as neither is yours in mine.

[/spoiler][/quote]

Where does it look like im pocketing anyone here?

[Guillotina]

I fucking hate playing here on mobile

[Guillotina]

When i get to my computer i will address all this BS from infinity

[Guillotina]

Was town before, but stopped being towny towards the end of the day which worries me.

What was not Townie by the end of the day?

His aggression and sorting from earlier in the day turned into a very forgettable presence

. It felt like he was

saying stuff just to say it

. The progression on horse, from thinking she said some towny stuff to going back to scumreading her didn’t feel

particularly genuine

. The response to flea’s case felt...

not as flippant as I expected

. The case was bad enough imo that I think most would be really frustrated by it as town and

guillo instead seemed to give more validity to the case than it had

.

Ok! I'm at home, let's do this!

1) I was the second highest poster on D1 (i think) where I scumhunted and push the slots that seemed the most suspicious to me. I was very far from being a forgettable presence!
2) I never say stuff just to say it as either alignment, I was split between my logical side scum reading Horsewoman and my heart side townreading her and that manifested in my hesitation to cast a final vote on her in various occasions. I ended up casting it on her because in my opinion she failed to town up, I don't know the reasons she had, she did say she was going through a mental breakdown (paraphrase) but I thought it was AtE. If I would have yeeted Tangeloo instead of Horsewoman if such wagon was possible but we all know that would have been a misyeet as well.
3) Flea's long wall post was ill intended and it was obvious that they were trying to provoke me, I tried to keep it respectful but I'm no goddamn saint, it pissed me off and I acted reacted accordingly. You say it was not as flippant as you expected and I say,

what do you know about me to have expectations about my behavior as a person?

And since when being allegedly disrespectful to someone is alignment indicative?
4) We all (except mafia) are trying scum hunt to solve the game to win. To me, everyone has validity, their opinions matter whether they are wrong or right, bad or good, because those inputs will help us solve the game. So I don't like it when you say that I seemed to give more validity to Flea's case than it had, it was valid for me and I had to address it. How is that bad eh?

[Guillotina]

So you state that scum already have more info than they should and then you say you are pretty sure Math is town.

That's contradicting!

Me saying that math is town doesn't give scum much more info than they already had given my stated TR on math d1.

You are not saying that Math is town. You are saying that you are

PRETTY SURE

that Math is town. There are only two scenarios where a player can state confidence on someone's town alignment.

1) The player is scum
2) The player is a cop

For someone who said that we should not give scum more info than they already should have, if we go by your logic, there is no way you are the cop, because that is outing yourself to scum thus providing more info than scum should have right?

Then I conclude that you must be the other option. You must be scum.

[Guillotina]

Hi mom! Think we should have a plan for this.

Pants protection is important.

I gotta get back to work but we should be careful.

VOTE: Guillo

That’s my thoughts atm.

This vote can't be genuine.

You are either a town with bipolarity disorder, or scum, or you are town testing for reactions.

Which one is it?

[Guillotina]

RE: Missing nightkill

We need a massclaim.

I think I support this. Need time to wake and become fully cognizant

You can't be serious. Are you?

[Guillotina]

Also can we not bring mental disorders into this as an attack, much thanks

Fair point. Apologies.

[Guillotina]

Nopenopenope

We aren't doing this now.

The claims aren't going to be burried

Do you really want to wait until mark wakes up and checks in again in order to progress the game?

This is a point I wanted to address.

Marky, next time you give up your intention to hammer if you are gonna be away for 8 hours. We don't have to wait for you to be available to play the game.

[Guillotina]

Hmm...

Guillotina, claim

Fuck no I'm not gonna claim. Claiming on D2 is insane and highly anti town.

[Guillotina]

VOTE: Guillotina

I want a claim and I'm getting it one way or another

Your vote does not intimidate me and my yeet will look bad on your anti town push. Go ahead.

If you want me to claim, show me why we need to claim, I take no orders from you.

[Guillotina]

Simple, she claimed Mason at a time she was getting pushed and was not in danger to get eliminated.

By policy i town read her and countered her wagon.

But she has not been confirmed, the vigilante outed himself to give us info about the only kill last night, I doubt scum can holster so a protective slot did their job protecting one of us.

I will not make it easy for scum to determine who is that protective slot.

[Guillotina]

You can't also scare me with your AtE. I've been there done that so

I dont give a crap if you think is AtE. I'm not claiming! If I have to die to protect the doctor I will, everyone else should shut their mouth to do the same.

If you were town you'd see this, thus I don't believe your mason claim anymore because your behavior is a threat to our wincon! This better be a test! What am I missing here?

FoS: Momrangal

FoS: Infinity

VOTE: MathBlade

If you are gonna run me down to the dirt, you best believe it will not be without a fight.

I'm town, that's my claim.

[Guillotina]

You can't also scare me with your AtE. I've been there done that so

I dont give a crap if you think is AtE. I'm not claiming! If I have to die to protect the doctor I will, everyone else should shut their mouth to do the same.

If you were town you'd see this, thus I don't believe your mason claim anymore because your behavior is a threat to our wincon! This better be a test! What am I missing here?

FoS: Momrangal

FoS: Infinity

VOTE: MathBlade

If you are gonna run me down to the dirt, you best believe it will not be without a fight.

I'm town, that's my claim.

Good luck with that. One scum down it looks like.

If i get flipped, it will prove you wrong.

What you are advocating for is madness.

[Guillotina]

I want a claim from Mark.

Then thoughts on who he thinks should go next and why. I'll either agree, or pick the next target myself

We shouldn’t be mass-claiming as it doesn’t benefit Town

The snowball has already started rolling.


We have too much information out in the open for scum to use, but not enough for town to utilize effectively

Such as what? Two flipped towns, an unconfirmed mason claim and a vigi claim?

The town protective role here is more important than those claims. He/she saved a life and in exchange her life must be protected.

[Guillotina]

It's also a mass claim that is controlled, scum can't get their hands on the order

Bullshit. The way I see, scum could be controlling it right now. We are not giving you shit.

Even if you were a mason, the protection role is more important than you.

[Guillotina]

I want a claim from Mark.

Then thoughts on who he thinks should go next and why. I'll either agree, or pick the next target myself

We shouldn’t be mass-claiming as it doesn’t benefit Town

The snowball has already started rolling.


We have too much information out in the open for scum to use, but not enough for town to utilize effectively

Such as what? Two flipped towns, an unconfirmed mason claim and a vigi claim?

The town protective role here is more important than those claims. He/she saved a life and in exchange her life must be protected.

Did you just scum slip with “her”

No? I did say he/she, I forgot to write his/her in the rush of things.

[Guillotina]

Was town before, but stopped being towny towards the end of the day which worries me.

What was not Townie by the end of the day?

His aggression and sorting from earlier in the day turned into a very forgettable presence

. It felt like he was

saying stuff just to say it

. The progression on horse, from thinking she said some towny stuff to going back to scumreading her didn’t feel

particularly genuine

. The response to flea’s case felt...

not as flippant as I expected

. The case was bad enough imo that I think most would be really frustrated by it as town and

guillo instead seemed to give more validity to the case than it had

.

Ok! I'm at home, let's do this!

1) I was the second highest poster on D1 (i think) where I scumhunted and push the slots that seemed the most suspicious to me. I was very far from being a forgettable presence!
2) I never say stuff just to say it as either alignment, I was split between my logical side scum reading Horsewoman and my heart side townreading her and that manifested in my hesitation to cast a final vote on her in various occasions. I ended up casting it on her because in my opinion she failed to town up, I don't know the reasons she had, she did say she was going through a mental breakdown (paraphrase) but I thought it was AtE. If I would have yeeted Tangeloo instead of Horsewoman if such wagon was possible but we all know that would have been a misyeet as well.
3) Flea's long wall post was ill intended and it was obvious that they were trying to provoke me, I tried to keep it respectful but I'm no goddamn saint, it pissed me off and I acted reacted accordingly. You say it was not as flippant as you expected and I say,

what do you know about me to have expectations about my behavior as a person?

And since when being allegedly disrespectful to someone is alignment indicative?
4) We all (except mafia) are trying scum hunt to solve the game to win. To me, everyone has validity, their opinions matter whether they are wrong or right, bad or good, because those inputs will help us solve the game. So I don't like it when you say that I seemed to give more validity to Flea's case than it had, it was valid for me and I had to address it. How is that bad eh?

1. Post count means nothing, at all. And just because you have a high post count doesn’t mean your posts hold any weight in people’s heads, thus can be forgettable.

2. That was a very complicated way to say you were fence sitting on them and chose they were more likely scum than town.

3. No comments

4. The first sentence screams LAMIST but is probably NAI.

1) I doubt my contributions were ignored.
2) What's fence sitting?
3) Why?
4) What first sentence? "Ok! I'm at home, let's do this!" ? It's NAI.

[Guillotina]

Guillo, we’re literally telling the protective not to claim. Can we just listen to the mason?

That’s counter intuitive, the reason we’re massclaiming is to find the missing kill. If protective doesn’t claim what’s thenpoint

Exactly! As far as I know, Masons are just VTs that share a room, so how do you expect to figure out the missing kill without the protective claim?

[Guillotina]

Guillo, we’re literally telling the protective not to claim. Can we just listen to the mason?

That’s counter intuitive, the reason we’re massclaiming is to find the missing kill. If protective doesn’t claim what’s thenpoint

Exactly! As far as I know, Masons are just VTs that share a room, so how do you expect to figure out the missing kill without the protective claim?

Theme game. Assuming makes an ass of you and me.

It’s possible mom has a pr in addition. It’s not worth pursuing atm though.

My role is as normal as it gets, I doubt this game got players with multiple abilities, specially when there are vanilla town flips.

Nope! I'll believe it when I see it, let's hope we don't have to see it, hence mass claiming is a terrible idea!

[Guillotina]

Ok I'm caught up. Mom not dying night 1 is just weird. I think I definitely would like the mason buddy to confirm. I don't have a read on mom and them not dying last night is really weird.

It’s really not.
Scum shot mom and mom was protected or scum shot outside of mom thinking she’d be protected and this other person got protected instead.

Oh right I forgot toog wasn't a scum kill. ignore me.

Nah I will just scumread you.

You and G make sense to me.

Yah?! Does it? So you think I was willing to bus Noraa since day 1 if she and I were wolves?

Really? You are not making sense and that is making me mad!

[Guillotina]

PR mason would be normal btw

I am such an old foagie I never remember what’s normal
But this is a theme so normal isn’t required anyways.

Qft

What's that?

[Guillotina]

Ok I'm caught up. Mom not dying night 1 is just weird. I think I definitely would like the mason buddy to confirm. I don't have a read on mom and them not dying last night is really weird.

It’s really not.
Scum shot mom and mom was protected or scum shot outside of mom thinking she’d be protected and this other person got protected instead.

Oh right I forgot toog wasn't a scum kill. ignore me.

Nah I will just scumread you.

You and G make sense to me.

Yah?! Does it? So you think I was willing to bus Noraa since day 1 if she and I were wolves?

Really? You are not making sense and that is making me mad!

To distance not bus and possibly.
Without seeing the scum PT I can’t really know for sure.
It’s possible you push Nora bad like I have done in prior scum games.

What? Are you new to Mafia or you've never played scum?

There is no way my tone with Noraa is distancing! I legit suspected her but to tell you the truth, that suspicion is going away the more you guys insist on mass claiming today.

@Momrangal there is no way this strategy is pro-town, if you are town stop placing yourself on top of the importance of keeping the protection role anonymous.

[Guillotina]

I agree on the Mark Infinity town part though to be fair.

So you’re thinking Gill is the only possible scum in the offence section?

Yup.
Also makes sense why the wagon stalled.

Votecount 1.1

bad bear pun count

: 2

[3]DrippingGoofball:

Noraa, LlamaMama, Marky Mark

[3]no elim:

Flea the Magician, Horsewoman, Momrangal

[2]Noraa:

DrippingGoofball, JacksonVirgo

[1]no elimination:

no elim

[1]Horsewoman:

Toogeloo

[3] Not Voting:

AGamblingPig, Nono, Guillotina

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to eliminate.

The elimination deadline is in (expired on 2020-12-22 12:35:35).

You’re probably town, no elim aka Infinity prolly town horse is town.

This means that we probably have a minor scum wagon on Noraa or a complete whiff at start of D1.

Means we probably have two scum voting somewhere if not three so one scum max in Pig/G.

Scum probably don’t combine here this early

So Vax + Nora out.

G/Vax(or Nora)/Flea maybe?

Spitballing thoughts here

So, you cased Horsewoman based on wagon movement and failed. Your whole case on horsewoman was based mostly and not all on wagonomics. And instead of re-evaluating your approach, you are gonna cased me based on wagonomics?

What happens when i flip town then? Hmm?

[Guillotina]

I agree on the Mark Infinity town part though to be fair.

So you’re thinking Gill is the only possible scum in the offence section?

Yup.
Also makes sense why the wagon stalled.

Votecount 1.1

bad bear pun count

: 2

[3]DrippingGoofball:

Noraa, LlamaMama, Marky Mark

[3]no elim:

Flea the Magician, Horsewoman, Momrangal

[2]Noraa:

DrippingGoofball, JacksonVirgo

[1]no elimination:

no elim

[1]Horsewoman:

Toogeloo

[3] Not Voting:

AGamblingPig, Nono, Guillotina

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to eliminate.

The elimination deadline is in (expired on 2020-12-22 12:35:35).

You’re probably town, no elim aka Infinity prolly town horse is town.

This means that we probably have a minor scum wagon on Noraa or a complete whiff at start of D1.

Means we probably have two scum voting somewhere if not three so one scum max in Pig/G.

Scum probably don’t combine here this early

So Vax + Nora out.

G/Vax(or Nora)/Flea maybe?

Spitballing thoughts here

So, you cased Horsewoman based on wagon movement and failed. Your whole case on horsewoman was based mostly and not all on wagonomics. And instead of re-evaluating your approach, you are gonna cased me based on wagonomics?

What happens when i flip town then? Hmm?

If you flip town then either A) All scum voting or B) Pig is scum.

I don’t think you do and this is much ado about nothing.

There’s pretty much only one claim that makes you a townread at this point and if you were town you’da done it. I reached out to you before and crickets so pretty sure you’re just scum here.

I do think you know im town.

I will case you later, unless you manage to convince everyone to yeet yet another town based of your wagonomics bullshit reads.

Horsewoman wagon stalled once because my gut was telling me that she could be town, i'm sure you recall that moment. Do you think a wolf stalls a misyeet when he could have easily sheep the consensus and end the slot earlier? That would be playing against my wincon if i was wolf, gamethrowing even. If you think wolves play like that, i hope i never rand wolf with you.

[Guillotina]

Guill/Math interactions make me feel it’s a TvS
DGB pushing for mass-claim I didn’t like, even if you have information about the missing kill they should just say it except push for a mass-claim.

Why is guill town here, and why is Math scum here?

Because what I see is Guillotina deflecting and AtE ing the hell out of every hoping to use his activity d1 to get her a free ride here

As far as DBG goes, what do you think of me picking up where they left off? DBG is an enigmatic fellow but pay close enough attention and you know what up

Pedit: does the VCA and the stalling of the wagon suggest two scum off two scum on

I townread you for your claim as policy dictates but you are playing anti-town forcing your way into a mass claim and it makes me consider the possibility that you fake claimed. So if you want my claim, i will need the other mason to claim first to confirm you.

Otherwise, we solve this game another way or you yeet me.

Im willing to die so the protector may live.

[Guillotina]

I agree on the Mark Infinity town part though to be fair.

So you’re thinking Gill is the only possible scum in the offence section?

Yup.
Also makes sense why the wagon stalled.

Votecount 1.1

bad bear pun count

: 2

[3]DrippingGoofball:

Noraa, LlamaMama, Marky Mark

[3]no elim:

Flea the Magician, Horsewoman, Momrangal

[2]Noraa:

DrippingGoofball, JacksonVirgo

[1]no elimination:

no elim

[1]Horsewoman:

Toogeloo

[3] Not Voting:

AGamblingPig, Nono, Guillotina

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to eliminate.

The elimination deadline is in (expired on 2020-12-22 12:35:35).

You’re probably town, no elim aka Infinity prolly town horse is town.

This means that we probably have a minor scum wagon on Noraa or a complete whiff at start of D1.

Means we probably have two scum voting somewhere if not three so one scum max in Pig/G.

Scum probably don’t combine here this early

So Vax + Nora out.

G/Vax(or Nora)/Flea maybe?

Spitballing thoughts here

So, you cased Horsewoman based on wagon movement and failed. Your whole case on horsewoman was based mostly and not all on wagonomics. And instead of re-evaluating your approach, you are gonna cased me based on wagonomics?

What happens when i flip town then? Hmm?

If you flip town then either A) All scum voting or B) Pig is scum.

I don’t think you do and this is much ado about nothing.

There’s pretty much only one claim that makes you a townread at this point and if you were town you’da done it. I reached out to you before and crickets so pretty sure you’re just scum here.

I do think you know im town.

I will case you later, unless you manage to convince everyone to yeet yet another town based of your wagonomics bullshit reads.

Horsewoman wagon stalled once because my gut was telling me that she could be town, i'm sure you recall that moment. Do you think a wolf stalls a misyeet when he could have easily sheep the consensus and end the slot earlier? That would be playing against my wincon if i was wolf, gamethrowing even. If you think wolves play like that, i hope i never rand wolf with you.

We have proof scum stalled the Horsewoman miselim the question is why?

We who? What do you mean we?

[Guillotina]

Guill/Math interactions make me feel it’s a TvS
DGB pushing for mass-claim I didn’t like, even if you have information about the missing kill they should just say it except push for a mass-claim.

Why is guill town here, and why is Math scum here?

Because what I see is Guillotina deflecting and AtE ing the hell out of every hoping to use his activity d1 to get her a free ride here

As far as DBG goes, what do you think of me picking up where they left off? DBG is an enigmatic fellow but pay close enough attention and you know what up

Pedit: does the VCA and the stalling of the wagon suggest two scum off two scum on

I townread you for your claim as policy dictates but you are playing anti-town forcing your way into a mass claim and it makes me consider the possibility that you fake claimed. So if you want my claim, i will need the other mason to claim first to confirm you.

Otherwise, we solve this game another way or you yeet me.

Im willing to die so the protector may live.

Ooh so you know who the other mason is? Wouldn’t this be A mason if you’re town?

I dont know who the other mason is. Hence why i need the other mason to confirm Momrangal mason's claim.

[Guillotina]

If the other mason outted would you claim

I would study your ISOs to see if there is indicative that you could both be masons first, if i find it. I would claim yes. You have my word.

[Guillotina]

If the other mason outted would you claim

Mom I think scum are fishing.

Who are the scum? Fill me in.

[Guillotina]

There's more than enough info in what I've posted to deduce who it is

I don't pick up on that and I could deduce wrong.

I need a straight claim just like you need a straight claim from me.

[Guillotina]

You're doing everything in your power to attempt to gain control of the game because you don't have it. I do and I'm not going to give it to you. You're going to do what I say or you're going to get lynched. Plain and simple

Pfffft. Lynch me then, I don't acknowledge you as town leader if in the process you risk outing the protective role.

If you wanna game throw, you will have to do it on your own and own up to it.

[Guillotina]

The more players mass claim, the closer scum is to deduce who the town PRs are, including the protector.

You understand this right?

[Guillotina]

It's already been explained to you, for the 5th time now. The protective role is never going to be outted

How can you guarantee this?

[Guillotina]

Because I'm controlling the outting of claims

Because I know it isn't you

Because we already said, if I do for some reason pick the protective they are going to claim VT

Ok. I'm VT

[Guillotina]

Because I'm controlling the outting of claims

Because I know it isn't you

Because we already said, if I do for some reason pick the protective they are going to claim VT

Ok. I'm VT

Okay you die.

Protective already crumbed and you already crumbed cop.

Ok and you die next when I flip town scum.

[Guillotina]

Also

FOS Math

for driving a wagon especially hard against what turned out to be a VT. I think a lot of us thought horse was scummy, but not with the massive levels of confidence that he had. As toog and I also pointed out D1, his late D1 posts setting out chain elims in the event that horse flipped town now look rather sus.

Math does look like he came to Momrangal rescue.

I hope there is a cop and checked one of those two.

Momrangal mason claim seemed like she was joking at first but when she saw we were taking the claim seriously and asked to confirm it she said she never jokes about claims.
Math confirmed this and immediately took a proactive role in pushing her counterwagon which is what a town leader would do to save the mason slot from a misyeet. But the situation developed and a few flags rised.

1) We were not anywhere near the EoD, why did Math felt the need to defend her so much?
2) How did Math came to the conclusion that HW had to be the scum slot after claiming of just skimming through?
3) Why did he focus on HW only even after Momrangal's wagon dissipated. He never showed hesitation.
4) Why didnt he consider other counterwagons as options for elimination such a Toogeloo? Instead he proposed Infinity who was never consensus for elimination.
5) I worked hard to get townread by my fellow townies, so it is greatly appreciated when someone says that they townread me, Math did, but he never said why? Now is the time to tell me that Math.
6) Math pressuring others into voting HW, me included, whom he townreads feels a bit scummy.
7) Marky raised a great point when he questioned Math about he saying that he'd push people leaving HW wagon if she flipped town. Felt like setting up people who ever considered not voting for HW.
8) If Math is scum, he's been breadcrumbing association with me, when i called him out about it, he ignored it.


I'm guilty of pushing HW hard but i had my doubts. By the end of the day my gut was telling me she was town but my brain was telling she was scum. In one of my games i was so wrong about my gut suspect so i didnt want to make the same mistake here. I'm sorry Horsewoman.

Bold is my emphasis. Protective doesn’t do this. You are dead.

What do I know what a protective does? I'm not a PR, I'm just a VT

[Guillotina]

Guillo, we’re literally telling the protective not to claim. Can we just listen to the mason?

That’s counter intuitive, the reason we’re massclaiming is to find the missing kill. If protective doesn’t claim what’s thenpoint

Exactly! As far as I know, Masons are just VTs that share a room, so how do you expect to figure out the missing kill without the protective claim?

Theme game. Assuming makes an ass of you and me.

It’s possible mom has a pr in addition. It’s not worth pursuing atm though.

My role is as normal as it gets, I doubt this game got players with multiple abilities, specially when there are vanilla town flips.

Nope! I'll believe it when I see it, let's hope we don't have to see it, hence mass claiming is a terrible idea!

So then claim. You just claimed PR. No point in holding back now

C’mon now really? Seriously..... you’re bad at this G. You didn’t even pick a PR to fake claim as scum

Look. I'm not HW bro, your noobish pressure tactics don't bother me and this will be the last time I will respond to your unfounded accusations.

You asked me to claim, I did.

Now from this point forward I will work on scum hunting and use the power of my vote when the time comes.

I'm casing you next. Wait for it Math!

[Guillotina]

@Momrangal since when did you start breadcrumbing the identity of the other mason?

[Guillotina]

im a parnoid gun owner

ANY action

Why didn't you claim this before EoD1?

Didn't you think a cop or a doctor could visit you and get killed? Not claiming this negative utility is scum indicative.

VOTE: Vaxkiller

[Guillotina]

im a parnoid gun owner

ANY action

Why didn't you claim this before EoD1?

Didn't you think a cop or a doctor could visit you and get killed? Not claiming this negative utility is scum indicative.

VOTE: Vaxkiller

You might just be town here

VOTE: Unvote

I need to think about things. I like that vote though.

But I don’t know if I like it because gut or bus or what.

You must be a very bad player as scum, so you must be town here. Unless you are just playing dumb.

Who in their right mind, bus their PGO wolf partner?

If I was wolf I wouldn't let that guy claim PGO, imagine the baiting wolves can do with such ability? Town PRs would drop like flies.

No, PGOs have the OBLIGATION to claim before EoD1 and if they don't and are found out, they gotta get yeeted because noone is gonna go check the PGO to find out if he is telling the truth or not, hence my vote.

[Guillotina]

G if you’re town I am really sorry

I'm town and pocket not accepted. I don't trust you anymore.

[Guillotina]

Because half the game is already claimed

Is this reply for me?

[Guillotina]

im a parnoid gun owner

ANY action

Why didn't you claim this before EoD1?

Didn't you think a cop or a doctor could visit you and get killed? Not claiming this negative utility is scum indicative.

VOTE: Vaxkiller

You might just be town here

VOTE: Unvote

I need to think about things. I like that vote though.

But I don’t know if I like it because gut or bus or what.

You must be a very bad player as scum, so you must be town here. Unless you are just playing dumb.

Who in their right mind, bus their PGO wolf partner?

If I was wolf I wouldn't let that guy claim PGO, imagine the baiting wolves can do with such ability? Town PRs would drop like flies.

No, PGOs have the OBLIGATION to claim before EoD1 and if they don't and are found out, they gotta get yeeted because noone is gonna go check the PGO to find out if he is telling the truth or not, hence my vote.

I am actually way better as scum than town tbh.

I used to have hard and fast rules for what town should do
Then had two PRs claim VT unprompted the prior day then be actual PRs. Almost won that game too but man there were some shit plays.

I agree it’s shit.

Do the math G.

I am assuming you can subtract here. Combine that with your first few sentences.

No I can't substract. I never went to school, in fact I'm not writing here, I just think words and they materialize on my screen. Otherwise I would be screwed.

[Guillotina]

@JV in terms of reads we are in a weird place because we are mid-massclaim

The scummier
-I think there is a good chance Infinity is scum. As previously stated, I TR DGB reasonably strongly so if infin is not scum here then there were no scum on the wagon of a claimed mason which took off out of nowhere.
-Math I am less sure of. I am cool with them being town leader, but less cool with them SRing horse less and less as we neared the end of D1 while setting up slots to pre-emptively push D2 in the case of horse's death. There are strong accociatives here with infin IMO, so looking at infin first makes sense to me
-As just highlighted, Vax's assertion that they thought they would be more likely targetted by scum than town feels off and their predecessor was sus. That being said, I can't see the scum motivation for claiming PGO here other than to dissuade any investigatives.

The townier
-I think a mason fakeclaim from Mom would be risky AF so she is strong townead rn
-To a lesser extent, JV faking vig is possible (eg NK toog and then claim it was the vig) but feels unlikely and unecessary risky against a player (toog) that would be easy to miselim
-DGB strikes me as likely town here from her interactions with the Mom wagon D1 and the subsequent responses to the Mom claim. Will wait and see what her super secret info is today tho
-I can see Pig potensh being newbtown here. Their reads are very surface level (eg SRing DGB for suggesting the massclaim) but wrong != scummy. V weak TR.

The nullish
-I'm middling on Noraa. Their push on me D1 felt like it was, although mistaken, coming from the right motivations. They've not really posted any smoking guns that would mark them out as clearly scum or town IMO.
-Flea is a hard one to sort. I think them doubting the mason claim is somewhat sus, although their behaviours otherwise have been reasonably towny
-Guillo I was TRing reasonably yesterday, although a few times today, it has felt like they have stretched to make a point (I have largely called this out as I've seen it, but can dig it out if needed) which has eroded that TR. Would put them towards the scummy end of null

Infinity

- Do you think that there's very little chance that scum was NOT on the masonry, I'll have to look back for VCA but in a vacuum I don't think that holds that much weight.

Math

- Though I do agree they're playing like ass, they're highly likely Town but not in the position to be the Town leader. I will put in my resume for that position though.

Vax

- I completely agree with this read, they're scummy as all heck but I don't think the claim comes from a scum mind-set but then again we don't have the information scum has, reason my vote is still on Noraa mainly.

Momrangal

- Even though I am still suffering from brain hemorrhaging from the Bending game and that gambit, I don't think they're the type of player to do that so they're probably just Town (or a Traitor if one possibly exists).

JacksonVirgo

- That's a me!

DGB

- Awaiting super secret information which they should have posted ages ago imo.

Piggy

- Do you think that surface level reads come from newb!town more than newb!scum? I would assume they would come from both as they have no experience finding anything deeper.

Noraa

- They're fairly solid at scum-play, although under pressure they tend to break if I am recalling correctly. Take that as you will.

Flea

- Honestly, I keep procrastinating on reading this slot because of how unorthodox their playstyle seems to be. I should probably get onto that ASAP

Guillo

- I think Gills is straight up scum here, I read them and Math as a TvS and considering my recent revelation with Math Gills is probably scum. If I had to pick two partners it'd be Noraa/Vax in a Vacuum with no relation except being scum-reads.

What? You think im partners with Noraa and Vax? Both Noraa and Vax (Llamamama) were in my PoE list in D1. You must think im a dumbass for actively tunneling Noraa's yeet on D1 as w/w. Like what wolf busses their teammate since early D1?

Now tell me, why am I straight up scum in this game?

[Guillotina]

What? You think im partners with Noraa and Vax? Both Noraa and Vax (Llamamama) were in my PoE list in D1. You must think im a dumbass for actively tunneling Noraa's yeet on D1 as w/w. Like what wolf busses their teammate since early D1?

Now tell me, why am I straight up scum in this game?

I think the likelihood of you being the lowest but yes I don't think anyone else is inherintely scummy. Both Vax and Noraa have been playing anti-town as fuck, specifics for Noraa is that they've been acting like I've never seen them do before (as Town I forget their scum games) and anti-town behaviour should never be accepted. Your presence and overall power in the thread diminished over time throughout D1 even though your posts were still high as I've stated earlier are NOT mutally exclusive events.

I can go further but it's almost 2am

Go further when you wake up. The day is still young.

[Guillotina]

Oh yeah I should clarify, if the mason claim isn't real then scum have made a stupid bold move and I'm flubbernucked.

When Momrangal begun mass claiming. I thought of this as a high possibility.

I was so blinded to Horsewoman being scum that i didnt see how convenient was from Mom to claim Mason there.
Except she actually did it as a joke, she did say “I'm Mason hahahahahaha” and then after, she said “Seriously Though”.

When she saw that we backed off of our vote but Infinity questioned the validity of the claim, Math came to her rescue discrediting Infinity's read on the matter, hard tunneling Mom's counterwagon, hard pocketing me (the HW tunneler) and dropping town reads and scum reads depending how players reacted to his pushes.
If players didnt do his bidding, they were then scum.
If players did his bidding, then tey were town.

During this day, his only mission was to save Momrangal no matter who else he had to sacrifice. Why?

Now everyone is mass claiming and the other Mason is yet to claim to confirm Momrangal and when i asked directly for it Momrangal evaded the request with, “we've been breadcrumbbing it for a long time”, instead of the straight claim. They want us to claim to figure out our roles while they play masons, they want to find the cop because the cop is the only one that can destroy their bold fake claim.

That is my theory.

[Guillotina]

Kekeke

Papa ranger papa ranger where are you?

Right here mama ranger, getting ready for work.

G lemme know when you want my crumbs.

And at least one of us is mason+ btw.

Gonna let mama say what we should out when.

You claiming the second Mason correct?

[Guillotina]

Imagine if some fake mass claimed and they had a lie detector ability instead. That would be great to have now.

I can dream...

[Guillotina]

Kekeke

Papa ranger papa ranger where are you?

Right here mama ranger, getting ready for work.

G lemme know when you want my crumbs.

And at least one of us is mason+ btw.

Gonna let mama say what we should out when.

You claiming the second Mason correct?

Not claiming I am.

There’s also another crumb as well with second place and I make a big deal about it. I am the second mason. Because of mason+ literally anyone was better than Mom so you’re right I did come to Mom’s rescue and the opening was stupid.

I was baiting Nora into attacking me so she’d realize I am mason and back off.

Stop entangling this.


The question is simple.

Are you town alignment (camper)?

[Guillotina]

Kekeke

Papa ranger papa ranger where are you?

Right here mama ranger, getting ready for work.

G lemme know when you want my crumbs.

And at least one of us is mason+ btw.

Gonna let mama say what we should out when.

You claiming the second Mason correct?

Not claiming I am.

There’s also another crumb as well with second place and I make a big deal about it. I am the second mason. Because of mason+ literally anyone was better than Mom so you’re right I did come to Mom’s rescue and the opening was stupid.

I was baiting Nora into attacking me so she’d realize I am mason and back off.

I am not claiming mason. I AM mason.

Punctuation unclear

Ok.

[Guillotina]

It’s just highly unlikely you’re a cop and would be given a smack down.

So if you wanna keep down this road go ahead.

I never said i was a cop.

I claimed VT (camper)

[Guillotina]

Camper is the vt flavor. Were rangers

It’s just highly unlikely you’re a cop and would be given a smack down.

So if you wanna keep down this road go ahead.

Stop dodging the question.

Just answer YES or NO, Math.

Are You Town Aligned?

[Guillotina]

Yes he is

Are you Math?

[Guillotina]

Let Math answer the question please

[Guillotina]

Suddenly Math is quiet. Do you have to think the question?

[Guillotina]

Camper is the vt flavor. Were rangers

It’s just highly unlikely you’re a cop and would be given a smack down.

So if you wanna keep down this road go ahead.

Stop dodging the question.

Just answer YES or NO, Math.

Are You Town Aligned?

Yes I am.

I am working I can’t respond that fast ffs

Bah, i wanted you to be scum.

If i was at my homesite i would have FPS this, but i pulled a terrible one in another game here and i dont wanna fuck up this one and get blacklisted.

So, yah.

I'm a camper

and if the mason's play is a scum play, i will personally nominate it as best scum play of the year.

I’ll sheep you.

VOTE: Pig

[Guillotina]

Camper is the vt flavor. Were rangers

It’s just highly unlikely you’re a cop and would be given a smack down.

So if you wanna keep down this road go ahead.

Stop dodging the question.

Just answer YES or NO, Math.

Are You Town Aligned?

Yes I am.

I am working I can’t respond that fast ffs

Bah, i wanted you to be scum.

If i was at my homesite i would have FPS this, but i pulled a terrible one in another game here and i dont wanna fuck up this one and get blacklisted.

So, yah.

I'm a camper

and if the mason's play is a scum play, i will personally nominate it as best scum play of the year.

I’ll sheep you.

VOTE: Pig

Let me be blunt.

I literally cited a game where scum tried this same thing to shade the mason claim.

Give me a good reason to believe you’re town here.

Because you literally citing a game where scum tried to shade a mason claim is exactly what I would do if i fake claimed mason and strong town read players contested it, if i was scum, that is high level WIFOM. Dude, i've been playing this since the 90's, since way before you new generations started calling it Mafia, in fact when i started playing this game again as mafia now, i thought werewolves and mafia were two different games where mafia was a plagiarized version of werewolves. Im so dumb lol.

Anyways, the point is that i have seen a lot of power fake claiming in my life that i dont think a mason fake claim under the right circumstances is unlikely.

Unfortunately im just a camper, if i was a PR i would check you to confirm.

You strongly believed Horsewoman was scum, she is dead and she was town. I hesitated she was and you built a scum case against me because of such hesitation, you are pushing to yeet me now. I will flip camper and then tomorrow you'll change the narrative to justify your trash pushes.

You are either scum or bad as town.

I dont care if you believe me if im town or not, my flip will make you believe it and should this be my legacy.

Check Math/Mom/Infinity

Just to make sure.

[Guillotina]

VOTE: Vaxkiller

Pig claimed Doctor, he shouldnt have, but i believe it.

[Guillotina]

Camper is the vt flavor. Were rangers

It’s just highly unlikely you’re a cop and would be given a smack down.

So if you wanna keep down this road go ahead.

Stop dodging the question.

Just answer YES or NO, Math.

Are You Town Aligned?

Yes I am.

I am working I can’t respond that fast ffs

Bah, i wanted you to be scum.

If i was at my homesite i would have FPS this, but i pulled a terrible one in another game here and i dont wanna fuck up this one and get blacklisted.

So, yah.

I'm a camper

and if the mason's play is a scum play, i will personally nominate it as best scum play of the year.

I’ll sheep you.

VOTE: Pig

Let me be blunt.

I literally cited a game where scum tried this same thing to shade the mason claim.

Give me a good reason to believe you’re town here.

Because you literally citing a game where scum tried to shade a mason claim is exactly what I would do if i fake claimed mason and strong town read players contested it, if i was scum, that is high level WIFOM. Dude, i've been playing this since the 90's, since way before you new generations started calling it Mafia, in fact when i started playing this game again as mafia now, i thought werewolves and mafia were two different games where mafia was a plagiarized version of werewolves. Im so dumb lol.

Anyways, the point is that i have seen a lot of power fake claiming in my life that i dont think a mason fake claim under the right circumstances is unlikely.

Unfortunately im just a camper, if i was a PR i would check you to confirm.

You strongly believed Horsewoman was scum, she is dead and she was town. I hesitated she was and you built a scum case against me because of such hesitation, you are pushing to yeet me now. I will flip camper and then tomorrow you'll change the narrative to justify your trash pushes.

You are either scum or bad as town.

I dont care if you believe me if im town or not, my flip will make you believe it and should this be my legacy.

Check Math/Mom/Infinity

Just to make sure.

...You realize Pig should be the elim today right?
What doctor doesn’t heal a mason claim?

I would have protected the Mason too, but failing so is not scum indicative. Town do stupid ceap all the time, ive dine stupid crap as town too.
If Pig is not the doctor the claim will resolve tonight anyways because scum would be game throwing if they didnt kill the doctor, scum 101 kill the claimed doctor. If he does not die then he is most likely scum or scum are deliberately playing against their wincon.

And Pig, if you are the doctor, you just threw the game for us. Smh

[Guillotina]

Camper is the vt flavor. Were rangers

It’s just highly unlikely you’re a cop and would be given a smack down.

So if you wanna keep down this road go ahead.

Stop dodging the question.

Just answer YES or NO, Math.

Are You Town Aligned?

Yes I am.

I am working I can’t respond that fast ffs

Bah, i wanted you to be scum.

If i was at my homesite i would have FPS this, but i pulled a terrible one in another game here and i dont wanna fuck up this one and get blacklisted.

So, yah.

I'm a camper

and if the mason's play is a scum play, i will personally nominate it as best scum play of the year.

I’ll sheep you.

VOTE: Pig

You quit sheeping me in the span of a few posts.

C’mon already. Seriously.

Like I get it you gotta try but still.

Fuck yes i quit sheeping you if the player claims Doctor. There is no way i’ll yeet a doctor after he claims. The doctor outranks all of us and if you pursue to yeet Pig, i will yeet you 1000 times over than the doctor. Get out of here

[Guillotina]

In fact, is your vote still on Pig? @Math

[Guillotina]

So you'll lynch confirmed town over a claim that doesn't add up. Ok.

Momrangal, im consistent with my actions. You claimed mason and as policy dictates i didnt vote to yeet you.

Math claimed mason and Pig claimed doctor. DOCTOR!!!!

A doctor claim supersedes a mason claim! Just like your only claim on D1 superseded anyone that was unclaimed.

The doctor outranks anyone and won’t get yeeted today, not by me.

[Guillotina]

Gun to my head it’s G Vax and Pig

Then shoot yourself.

[Guillotina]

I think it’s possible but not probable

you were furiously pushing it for the longest time. did I miss something?
Ya ran around saying I was scum with guillo all of today.

More of a who shades the masons as town and who does it as scum.

You not continuing the push is sus, and if I am wrong on Vax I would look back at you.

Because it’s possible it’s just G+Pig and G told Pig to include those words like he did cop to try to bait PRs into responding and Vax is town.

Just more likely G+Pig+Vax

No way someone does crumbs like that for roles they don’t have in the exact same way without communication when one is a newb.

You are scum.

Show me where I told Pig to include any words in your goddamn fantasy.

Show me where I claimed anything besides VT. You are the one who is open PR Hunting along with Momrangal here.

Tell me how does it make sense that it is absolutely scummy to vote for a claim mason, but it is not scummy to push a yeet on a claim doctor like you are.

I'll wait.

[Guillotina]

Gun to my head it’s G Vax and Pig

Then shoot yourself.

This really skirts the line of appropriate whatever your alignment. I suggest stepping away from the keyboard and taking a chill pill.

No, you said gun to your head Im scum with Vax and Pig. I'm town, you are wrong, you die.

[Guillotina]

1) Claim is unsubstantiated
2) Claim doesn’t make mechanical sense for town to do
3) Was roleblocked and missing scum kill claim didn’t come til after

It’s obviously a ploy to try to stay alive.

1) Momrangal claim was unsubstantiated too, we had no reason to save her besides believing in her claim! As policy dictates!

2) Yah? And pushing to yeet a claim doctor over a claim PGO makes more sense? A doctor can sort itself out during the night, the PGO can only be sorted via day elimination.

HAS ANOTHER PLAYER COUNTERCLAIMED?

If not we have to believe the doctor claim is real and let it sort out during the night!

3) How do you know Pig was roleblocked?

[Guillotina]

Ok so by guillo logic if math is scum here then mom is also scum as she is verifying him as her fellow mason. Is this what you think guillo, because I didn't really get the vibe from you yesterday that you thought mom was scum post-claim?

--pedit: I still think infin is an underrated choice for third scum alongside pig and vax if we are talking solves

I didn't consider Momrangal to be a likely scum, but I did think Math could be. There are two posts that really really pinged me from him that were like.. Red Flag #1, red Flag #2....

I'll bring them up in a minute.

[Guillotina]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12437570

To which I replied here. https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12437705. The post i was talking about where he himself said that he gets townread as scum is this one https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 6#p8414236


The second post was actually his reply to this

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12437711

to which I replied

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12437736

In fact! I was expecting him to say something about it but he straight up ignored it. He never addressed me for it,, which was weird because earlier in the game I told himsomething about not liking the tone of his post and he fought back.

Im talking about this post

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12433889

That he replied to with

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12433893

And I followed up with

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12433916



Also his ""gun to my head is a scum tell because of this

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12433893

[Guillotina]

DGB claimed roleblocking Pig?

[Guillotina]

I roleblocked AGamblingPig

Squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek

Oh ok. Then he is scum

[Guillotina]

I mean Pig, if he was roleblocked, he never protectged Vax who is a PGO that didn't kill Pig

[Guillotina]

VOTE: Vaxkiller

[Guillotina]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO WTF. HOW FUCKING DARE THEY

This is a scumtell

[Guillotina]

We're not going after Nora today

Ok. But it is a scumtell, you know this.

[Guillotina]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO WTF. HOW FUCKING DARE THEY

This is a scumtell

Considering how close and personal they are?

No, because it is an overdramatized reaction.

“NOOOOOOO WTF, HOW FUCKING SCUM DARE TO KILL A TOWNIE TO FULFILL THEIR WINCON”.

Like it sucks, but we know the masons and the roleblocker would be watched/tracked/protected, so obviously scum would attempt to kill outside those claims. We expected it, so if Noraa was town, she wouldnt have dramatized her reaction like that to look like town.

Scum tell through and through

[Guillotina]

There was a mass claim yesterday and the only thing we asked to be hidden was the protective. There is no tracker and watcher and scum know that. Why are you pushing this narrative

Because paranoia is a thing and scum lost one of theirs to us.

[Guillotina]

overdramatized reaction

You've never played with noraa before yeah?

I have. Three times

[Guillotina]

Ok two, and i was dead in the third one wherei saw her play.

[Guillotina]

overdramatized reaction

You've never played with noraa before yeah?

I have. Three times

So why are you still saying that overdramatizing something is scummy for her? She does that all the time (sorry noraa, it's true)

1) Because im not playing the game based on meta, i think i have said this multiple times.

2) Because it is a known scumtell and it adds up to my suspicions on her.

[Guillotina]

There was a mass claim yesterday and the only thing we asked to be hidden was the protective. There is no tracker and watcher and scum know that. Why are you pushing this narrative

Pushing what narrative? Like are you trying to say here that I'm rolefishing for a doc? I thought infinity was saying that there was likely a doc, which I was just commenting on as that didn't seem like the general consensus, but in hindsight I misread their post. Perhaps I ought to read more lol. Sorry!

Nighty night you lovely people

EPIC FAIL. This was not for you, it was for me.

[Guillotina]

I blocked Guillotina.

Well that was a wasted action, im a fucking camper!

[Guillotina]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO WTF. HOW FUCKING DARE THEY

This is a scumtell

Can we yeet king guillo? Just for shits and giggles :O

Pfffff half the players list love me and the other half love to hate me! Im not getting yeeted.

Im so townread that the only way i'll get killed is during the night, by scum. After i led the wagon to kill yet another one of theirs:

YOU

[Guillotina]

overdramatized reaction

You've never played with noraa before yeah?

I have. Three times

So why are you still saying that overdramatizing something is scummy for her? She does that all the time (sorry noraa, it's true)

1) Because im not playing the game based on meta, i think i have said this multiple times.

2) Because it is a known scumtell and it adds up to my suspicions on her.

no one cares

Town cares

[Guillotina]

I need to see something first. Sorry. Trust me. Odds are pretty good he’s town just was being silly pushing masons.

They had no idea you all were masons and thus isn't silly for pushing scummy actions.

G is not a mason with us.

I was referring to his stupid wall.

What stupid wall?

[Guillotina]

Hmm maybe vax fakeclaimed PGO and scum decided to kill
flea to avoid outing him

Possible but that’s not what makes no sense.

There’d have to be four scum for G to be scum here.

Something doesn’t add up

Oh?

Yes. I think Vax and G are town.

Much as the latter annoys me.

It annoys you that im town? You saying you wished i was scum? If so, likewise!

[Guillotina]

I blocked Guillotina.

Well that was a wasted action, im a fucking camper!

Who would you have picked?

The PGO duh!

If we dont yeet the PGO today (we must), that would be the course of action for tonight.

The Paranoid Gun Owner passively (and involuntarily) kills anyone who targets them during the Night. The PGO is not notified when their power is used. The PGO may be stopped from using their power if targeted by a Roleblocker.

We roleblock him and the vigi or cop checks him.

This way we confirm both the PGO and the Roleblocker.

[Guillotina]

Roleblocking the PGO kills the roleblocker

Bruh! The roleblocker can't be killed by the PGO wtf?

Roleblocker is a manipulation action that is on top of of the kill action processes!

[Guillotina]

I blocked Guillotina.

Well that was a wasted action, im a fucking camper!

Who would you have picked?

The PGO duh!

If we dont yeet the PGO today (we must), that would be the course of action for tonight.

The Paranoid Gun Owner passively (and involuntarily) kills anyone who targets them during the Night. The PGO is not notified when their power is used. The PGO may be stopped from using their power if targeted by a Roleblocker.

We roleblock him and the vigi or cop checks him.

This way we confirm both the PGO and the Roleblocker.

That’s what Flea did now all Vax has to do is confirm the gift.

How do we know that is what Flea did? How do we know Vax won't lie?

[Guillotina]

Roleblocking the PGO kills the roleblocker

Bruh! The roleblocker can't be killed by the PGO wtf?

Roleblocker is a manipulation action that is on top of of the kill action processes!

PGO kills anyone who visits. It’s a passive property not an action.

Like you can’t RB bulletproof same with PGO

Except roleblockers!

Every ability has a way to be countered mechanically, not just by claim. Roleblockers block the PGO without getting killed, because after the roleblocker action the PGO no longer has the PGO power as per role action process order.

[Guillotina]

I think at least one

us

likely scum.

Huh?

[Guillotina]

Roleblocking the PGO kills the roleblocker

Bruh! The roleblocker can't be killed by the PGO wtf?

Roleblocker is a manipulation action that is on top of of the kill action processes!

PGO kills anyone who visits. It’s a passive property not an action.

Like you can’t RB bulletproof same with PGO

Except roleblockers!

Every ability has a way to be countered mechanically, not just by claim. Roleblockers block the PGO without getting killed, because after the roleblocker action the PGO no longer has the PGO power as per role action process order.

This is incorrect. You’re welcome to ask the mod.

PGO kills the roleblocker sorry. That’s not at all how that works.

Bro! I know what I'm talking about. There is no role that cannot be mechanically countered!

[Guillotina]

Actually, Guill has significantly fallen in the last few pages and now is reaching incredibly low to shade me.

pedit: PGO is usually X-shot and whenever I've seen it it's activated.

That's alright, I can take it. I didn't shade you, YOU DID POST that.

[Guillotina]

I don't believe the PGO claim.

What if I target it tonight?

I'm so confident in my mechanical knowledge that I would do it if I was the roleblocker, but every site process roles differently I guess we don't have to risk it if we policy yeet the PGO?

Procedure dictates that if he is town, he has to claim the role before EoD1, he didn't! Now, if it's true that the PGO cannot be mechanically countered, then the only way he is getting eliminated if he was scum is if we yeet him.

[Guillotina]

Why did you target to block me, knowing my camper claim? @DBG

[Guillotina]

The silence... it is odd that a roleblocked would try to block a claimed camper... what if he is not a roleblocker?

Why are you asking if the masons are role cops @DGB?

[Guillotina]

This is just tinfoil but... What if DBG fake claimed roleblocker and bussed Pig for towncred?

[Guillotina]

Why would a roleblocker block a claimed PR?

Are you serious? Roleblockers sole job is to ROLE...block!

[Guillotina]

The silence... it is odd that a

roleblocker

would try to block a claimed camper... what if he is not a roleblocker?

Why are you asking if the masons are role cops @DGB?

correction

[Guillotina]

Why would a roleblocker block a claimed PR?

Are you serious? Roleblockers sole job is to ROLE...block!

The point of a town roleblocker is to try to roleblock the kill, not to roleblock town PRs.

Town Roleblockers block Scum PRs, it is what I was going for.

[Guillotina]

But instead, DBG roleblocked a claimed camper? instead of trying to RB an unclaimed player? Outside of the claimed town PRs?

[Guillotina]

Why wouldn't a scum PR claim VT?

Because VTs are disposable, scum need not to get yeeted, they need to claim an important role to stay alive, specially if they lead in the kill wagon

[Guillotina]

I'm pretty sure everyone claimed and the best play is to block whoever you think is scum

PEdit: @math hmm ok

@guillo I guess, still feel like you want to block the kill instead of hoping one of the town PRs is a scum PR. If you're wrong, you blocked a town PR which sucks.

Yeah agreed with infinity here.

Guillo is just bad at mechanics. It’s possible he’s scum but there would have to be four scum for G to be scum. Maybe a traitor possibly.

Well that hurt. Im very good at mechanics Im just a bit paranoid.

[Guillotina]

I'm pretty sure everyone claimed and the best play is to block whoever you think is scum

PEdit: @math hmm ok

@guillo I guess, still feel like you want to block the kill instead of hoping one of the town PRs is a scum PR. If you're wrong, you blocked a town PR which sucks.

Yeah agreed with infinity here.

Guillo is just bad at mechanics. It’s possible he’s scum but there would have to be four scum for G to be scum. Maybe a traitor possibly.

Well that hurt. Im very good at mechanics Im just a bit paranoid.

Careful now. The last person to use that exact phrase was scum.

You should be trying to convince me there aren’t four scum.

How can i convince you of something im not certain of?

[Guillotina]

I'm pretty sure everyone claimed and the best play is to block whoever you think is scum

PEdit: @math hmm ok

@guillo I guess, still feel like you want to block the kill instead of hoping one of the town PRs is a scum PR. If you're wrong, you blocked a town PR which sucks.

Yeah agreed with infinity here.

Guillo is just bad at mechanics. It’s possible he’s scum but there would have to be four scum for G to be scum. Maybe a traitor possibly.

Well that hurt. Im very good at mechanics Im just a bit paranoid.

Careful now. The last person to use that exact phrase was scum.

You should be trying to convince me there aren’t four scum.

How can i convince you of something im not certain of?

By actively voting and pushing who you think is scum rather than arguing mechanics. You’ve been wrong all game. If you think someone is scum mechanically make a non mechanical case because you’re actively being bad right now if you’re town.

Being wrong is more town indicative than scum indicative cause you know, im part of the unaware majority. How do you know ive been wrong all game if Noraa has not flipped yet. She could be the only scum read i’ve been right about all along?

Vaxkiller needs to get eliminated if not, then my vote goes on Noraa as of now.
Or DGB

[Guillotina]

@Math If it's both of them scum probably needs more power. If not it's fine.

It’s my opinion scum needs more power or a way to dodge the investigations.

I see what you're saying, rolestopper wouldn't make sense with guillo scum. Could be an ascetic but that's probably not enough power then.

And an ascetic would make me suspect him though.

So if G is scum then it’s 4 scum.

So we’d be looking at a claimed PR being scum or a full power suite or 4 scum.

If this game has 4 scum, this game is scum sided. For 1 scum there gotta be 3 town.

1+3 = 4
2+6 = 8
3+9 = 12
4+12 = 16
PLUS ONE

[Guillotina]

Do you think it's vax + noraa math? If not, who's scum?

I kinda wanna see if Flea visited Vax.

If that’s a no then Vax gets elimmed.

If it’s a yes then G+Nora+DGB would make sense

Well, you just told Vax what to say.

[Guillotina]

I seriously just did. No other msgs

Everyone knows that PGOs are not told who visit them.

He is likely scum for not claiming before EoD1

[Guillotina]

I seriously just did. No other msgs

Everyone knows that PGOs are not told who visit them.

He is likely scum for not claiming before EoD1

FUUUUUUUUUUUCK YOU YOU GUYS DITN GIV EME AHCANCE GO BACK AN D LOOK!

Sry emotions

AtE

We towns dont apologize for our emotions.

[Guillotina]

zDay 1 was like a 24 hour fade, i didnt even get a chance to talk. I was still thnking about weather or not to claim or try harder at "hinting"

Hinting? Why? Why ridk town PRs not catching your hints and get killed upon visiting you?

[Guillotina]

Why risk*

[Guillotina]

Why risk*

Lol coming from you. Im Sry dude.

Stop deflecting. Answer the question

VOTE: Vaxkiller

[Guillotina]

So the simple answer whatever your alignment is that Flea never visited Vax the answer becomes why.

Pedit: Look at who died Vax.

The person I asked to target you.

You said Flea didn’t visit you and you had no messages at day start which you’d have if Flea died by visiting you,

So whatever your alignment Flea didn’t visit you it becomes a matter of why

Why did you ask flea to target me? Was it in your neighborhood? Why would you do that?

Is DGB in your neighborhood?

I did that for manh reasons

1) If you’re scum and not PGO then scum have to fix the kill around you.
This enables a secret protective (if any) and any masons to live another day.

2) If you’re scum and PGO investigatives know not to target you and you can be sorted.

3) If you’re town and PGO then we trade a fruit vendor for an unkillable Townie at night.

It forces this day play.

With you not receiving any messages number 2 is out.
This means you’re either town and unkillable except by ninja or BP or you’re scum and I bought an extra day for conf town win win.

Why PGO can be killed by ninja?

Ninja is untrackable or unwatchable, that’s it.

[Guillotina]

So no we can’t invite people.

So if you’re town then DGB almost certainly becomes scum.

And because G likely isn’t the killer (must as I hate his mechanics stupidity) then DGB likely didn’t stop the kill unless there’s four scum.

However getting town to take that leap of faith is really hard.

You know what I rather get scum read and miseliminated than getting insulted by you, will you chill on your insults or do I need to request for moderation. Or better yet we make this day a shitstorm for all of us where i get miseliminated or you and we give an extra day to scum, i dont give a crap.

[Guillotina]

VOTE: MathBlade

Yeet me! Here! Im knowingly voting to yeet a “claimed” mason.

I always attack the play, not the player and when I do, i apologize and i will be damn if i allow you to call me stupid or my mechanics skills stupid because im a goddamn great player.

Is this about ego? Yes! But it’s about respect too!

[Guillotina]

UNVOTE:

[Guillotina]

So Nora who do you think is scum?

I do agree with guillo scum at this point.

he's acting really dumb :/

like I wanna say this could be TSTBS but I think its just scum at this point.

Im pissed off at Math, it does not make me scum.

You calling me dumb after seeing how i take those insults look like you are trying to provoke me even further, to what purpose?

[Guillotina]

So Nora who do you think is scum?

I do agree with guillo scum at this point.

he's acting really dumb :/

like I wanna say this could be TSTBS but I think its just scum at this point.

Im pissed off at Math, it does not make me scum.

You calling me dumb after seeing how i take those insults look like you are trying to provoke me even further, to what purpose?

I am sorry you’re pissed at me.

If you’re town your play has been bad.

I can’t lie here. I don’t think you’re bad but your play has been.

Nope, my town play has been as good as it can be. Fuck your judgement, if you were so good you wouldnt have deathtunneled horsewoman to her elimination having help and all.

[Guillotina]

So Nora who do you think is scum?

I do agree with guillo scum at this point.

he's acting really dumb :/

like I wanna say this could be TSTBS but I think its just scum at this point.

Im pissed off at Math, it does not make me scum.

You calling me dumb after seeing how i take those insults look like you are trying to provoke me even further, to what purpose?

I am sorry you’re pissed at me.

If you’re town your play has been bad.

I can’t lie here. I don’t think you’re bad but your play has been.

Nope, my town play has been as good as it can be. Fuck your judgement, if you were so good you wouldnt have deathtunneled horsewoman to her elimination having help and all.

No. Death tunneling Horsewoman confirmed a theory that helped nail scum and saved a mason+investigative.

Short of Horsewoman claiming mod informed of all the scum I elim her every time to save my mason buddy.

Whatever im not going to let you to discredit me and put me down, that crap is anti-town and you know it.

I dont acknowledge you as town leader. Town leaders empower other town players and work together. You humiliate others.

[Guillotina]

So Nora who do you think is scum?

I do agree with guillo scum at this point.

he's acting really dumb :/

like I wanna say this could be TSTBS but I think its just scum at this point.

Im pissed off at Math, it does not make me scum.

You calling me dumb after seeing how i take those insults look like you are trying to provoke me even further, to what purpose?

I am sorry you’re pissed at me.

If you’re town your play has been bad.

I can’t lie here. I don’t think you’re bad but your play has been.

Nope, my town play has been as good as it can be. Fuck your judgement, if you were so good you wouldnt have deathtunneled horsewoman to her elimination having help and all.

No. Death tunneling Horsewoman confirmed a theory that helped nail scum and saved a mason+investigative.

Short of Horsewoman claiming mod informed of all the scum I elim her every time to save my mason buddy.

Whatever im not going to let you to discredit me and put me down, that crap is anti-town and you know it.

I dont acknowledge you as town leader. Town leaders empower other town players and work together. You humiliate others.

That’s what I have been doing when I can.

That’s why I have been cautious with my word choice.

Look at how I am working with JV and Marky Mark and Infinity and Flea. It kinda became obvious I townread them and was never voting there even if I said I scumread them.

I just don’t get what you’re doing this game I really don’t.

If im to be honest. Even with your mason claim and momrangal confirming you, my gut tells me you are scum and im having a hard time trusting you, cause every time i try, you manage to find a way to put me down. I feel you do that when im trying to get ideas together to try to help solve the game.

It's either you are a town with a power trip, or you are scum with momrangal and have been manipulating us with a high level play.

That is what my gut tells me, maybe im just wrong and i just cant stand you and im letting that cloud my judgement, but you are mot making it easy to work with because your approach is either your way or no way at all.

[Guillotina]

Why does Pig crumb PGO as goon and there happens to be one? It’s a pretty big coincidence.

Like I get the mechanical reasons Vax could be scum I just can’t bring myself to do it. If everyone else does I accept that I just can’t right now.

I can

VOTE: Vaxkiller

[Guillotina]

So Nora who do you think is scum?

I do agree with guillo scum at this point.

he's acting really dumb :/

like I wanna say this could be TSTBS but I think its just scum at this point.

Im pissed off at Math, it does not make me scum.

You calling me dumb after seeing how i take those insults look like you are trying to provoke me even further, to what purpose?

I have no interest in provoking you but if you are so easily offended, that's not my problem.

How being easily offended is scum indicative?

[Guillotina]

Whatever im not going to let you to discredit me and put me down, that crap is anti-town and you know it.

I dont acknowledge you as town leader. Town leaders empower other town players and work together. You humiliate others.

for the last fucking time
STOP
QUOTING
LONG
FUCKING
WALLS

No. This place is weird, if you spoiler the posts then you are read scum for your posts to intentionally being easy to miss. So there, have your walls ladies and gents.

[Guillotina]

Oh fuck that looks bad for me lmfaoo, I'm a N1 vigilante.

I am not sure where the hell the mofia kill

went. I would have assumed the scum was within Momrangal, Toogeloo, DGB so I shot within the trio. If it helps I also softed vigilante with my vig talks yesterday.

How would you be sure where the mafia kill went anyway?

How is this fluff, you said IM NOT SURE, implying doubt, when there is doubt it implies having partial knowledge.

Now how a N1 town vigilante would have partial knowledge about the mafia kill?

[Guillotina]

No. This place is weird, if you spoiler the posts then you are read scum for your posts to intentionally being easy to miss. So there, have your walls ladies and gents.

wtf are u talking about????

Im talking about players being accused of being mafia aligned for posting spoilered posts as a way to look busy but also creating the possibility that town might miss it thus missing context of the thread.

I was dumbfounded when i saw that. Obviously, if it is a big wall post like Flea's case on me, i will spoiler it regardless.

[Guillotina]

So Nora who do you think is scum?

I do agree with guillo scum at this point

.

he's acting really dumb

:/

like I wanna say this could be TSTBS but I think its just scum at this point.

Im pissed off at Math, it does not make me scum.

You calling me dumb after seeing how i take those insults look like you are trying to provoke me even further, to what purpose?

I have no interest in provoking you but if you are so easily offended, that's not my problem.

How being easily offended is scum indicative?

did I ever say it was scum indicative?

You did.

[Guillotina]

As per your train of thoughts. I was easily offended by Math's posts about my mechanical stupidity and you scum read me for it.
You provoking me further and me reacting negatively for it is part of being easily offended too right?

So how is acting dumb and being easily offended scum indicative?

I understand i am a threat to you as i scum read you since day 1 and you are scum. But if you wanna get rid of me you actually gotta case me.

[Guillotina]

Hey all

Looks like the day started just after I went to bed last night and then was locked by the time I had woken up - see my previous wry comments about the mafiascum experience for European players

G's been stretching today, I'm not gonna lie.

As I understand it, Vax is either:
PGO -> means Flea died from visiting them -> means either G is scum or scum no-killed to frame G
Not PGO-> means scum killed Flea and Vax is 90% scum because why would town!vax lie about their role

I've still not heard back from Vax ref why they didn't claim D1 fwiw

--pedit lolwat from math. In this scenario either Vax or G is scum 90% so why look elsewhere?

I am glad I'm not the only one catching Guill's fall from grace and yeah I think Math's logic is wack as I've said in the wall and I believe we catch at least one scum if we yeet both Guill and Vax, unless other information arises that stops us.

Although it's still possible scum cross-killed as a lot of people apparently missed Flea's claim or even killed to not clear the PGO, both are fairly weak WIFOM arguments though.

I fall from grace every day, im used to that crap now. It will not stop me from making the questions everyone is afraid to ask because they might look like wolf.

[Guillotina]

Good time as any to remember that votes are a thing

VOTE: Vax

pedit: That shouldn't make them any different than when you were saying you wanted to yeet them regardless of you thinking they're Town. It just makes them less likely teamed with DGB. I am not following, like at all

I don’t want to yeet them. I understand if it happens but I think they are town. I just can’t bring myself to yeet someone I townread.

Im only voting Vax or Noraa today.

Vax for policy and Noraa because she is my top scum read.

[Guillotina]

GUYS THE MOD MISTAKE WAS VAX WAS GIFTED SOMETHING

Has the MOD @Nero Cain confirm the mistake? I will only believe it if it comes from him.

Did i miss it? Do i need a pair of glasses?

[Guillotina]

ALSO PSA

if people are going to go around and call math shitty as hell, and say how terrible he is as a town leader pushing the wrong lynches there is one thing that needs to be realized. Math was doing all those pushes for me, especially the horsewagon push. Not only are we masons this game, but since he's subbed in, we have been essentially of one mind . All suspicions voiced and every push made are pushes that are being endorsed by both of us 99% of the time.

He's echoed most of my thoughts from my head into this game so really anything that people have to say about him that's negative is also to be said about me as well

Vax for policy

its day 3. this isn't acceptable at all.

It is because no town PGO would put other town PRs at risk. He SHOULD HAVE CLAIMED BEFORE EOD1 PERIOD!

[Guillotina]

If Math's crappy decisions are echoed from your thoughts, then i hold both accountable.

[Guillotina]

GUYS THE MOD MISTAKE WAS VAX WAS GIFTED SOMETHING

Has the MOD @Nero Cain confirm the mistake? I will only believe it if it comes from him.

Did i miss it? Do i need a pair of glasses?

Yes you do. Second time you’ve missed something.

Please show me, goddamn it!

[Guillotina]

FYI mod msgd me, said there was a mistake. I received a picnic basket last night.

I'll be on later tonight, christmas stuff with fam now

@Nero Cain

can you confirm this?

If moderators make mechanical mistakes that put the integrity of players at risk, he must publicly confirm them, otherwise it is just another bluff.

[Guillotina]

Also, part of me feels like you have played on a roleplaying site a long time ago Guillotina but maths suspicion on you is largely mine. He was willing to town you on mechanics but something is off and the way the day has played out doesn't make it any better @guillotina

Ok ok. Would you day that my yeet would give you guys the info you need to solve the game?

[Guillotina]

FYI mod msgd me, said there was a mistake. I received a picnic basket last night.

I'll be on later tonight, christmas stuff with fam now

@Nero Cain

can you confirm this?

If moderators make mechanical mistakes that put the integrity of players at risk, he must publicly confirm them, otherwise it is just another bluff.

mod won't. otherwise we will be able to know Vax's alignment.

Also, part of me feels like you have played on a roleplaying site a long time ago Guillotina but maths suspicion on you is largely mine. He was willing to town you on mechanics but something is off and the way the day has played out doesn't make it any better @guillotina

Ok ok. Would you say that my yeet would give you guys the info you need to solve the game?

Correction

[Guillotina]

FYI mod msgd me, said there was a mistake. I received a picnic basket last night.

I'll be on later tonight, christmas stuff with fam now

@Nero Cain

can you confirm this?

If moderators make mechanical mistakes that put the integrity of players at risk, he must publicly confirm them, otherwise it is just another bluff.

It could be a bluff.

It might not be. Who knows until we ask Vax?

Nero doesn’t have to confirm Vax in the slightest.

But Vax already said that the mod made a mistake, mods confirm mistakes, otherwise it is a bluff.

[Guillotina]

Mod locked the thread because he made aistske. All the confirmation we need

He never confirmed what mistake was it.

[Guillotina]

The mod cant say

"I was supposed to send someone a PM, but forgot to do it"

The mod has to confirm mechanical mistakes they made to the public.

What if im a cop and i get a wrong check and for that i get a town killed after claiming?

This is why mods have to confirm mechanical mistakes to the thread. It's policy!

[Guillotina]

Thats stipid, why would we believe the player if bluffs exist?

[Guillotina]

The mod cant say

"I was supposed to send someone a PM, but forgot to do it"

The mod has to confirm mechanical mistakes they made to the public.

What if im a cop and i get a wrong check and for that i get a town killed after claiming?

This is why mods have to confirm mechanical mistakes to the thread. It's policy!

It depends on the mistake G. In this case there is no such possibility as Vax is not an investigative. MS policy is to release/confirm as little as possible while allowing the game to continue. While it’s pretty obvious Vax imho is PGO some people are doubting it which means there’s no reason to confirm or deny anything.

Vax can still play whatever he does as town or scum and it’s just like day start as if he claimed receipt.

Then the best course of action is to yeet me! Im a camper and my yeet will help town figure shit out

[Guillotina]

The mod cant say

"I was supposed to send someone a PM, but forgot to do it"

The mod has to confirm mechanical mistakes they made to the public.

What if im a cop and i get a wrong check and for that i get a town killed after claiming?

This is why mods have to confirm mechanical mistakes to the thread. It's policy!

It depends on the mistake G. In this case there is no such possibility as Vax is not an investigative. MS policy is to release/confirm as little as possible while allowing the game to continue. While it’s pretty obvious Vax imho is PGO some people are doubting it which means there’s no reason to confirm or deny anything.

Vax can still play whatever he does as town or scum and it’s just like day start as if he claimed receipt.

Then the best course of action is to yeet me! Im a camper and my yeet will help town figure shit out

That’s exactly what a goon would say to help a ninja.

Why would you not want to elim your top scumread?

My vote is on my top scum read isnt it? Why dont you wanna yeet Vax when there is enough evidence that his bluffing about the mod mistake?

[Guillotina]

DGB is sus for roleblocking a claimed camper
Vax is sus for not claiming PGO before EoD1 and for bluffing about the mod mistake

[Guillotina]

Is it possible that DGB could have believed I was bluffing about my role claim and roleblocked me for it?

[Guillotina]

DGB is sus for roleblocking a claimed camper
Vax is sus for not claiming PGO before EoD1 and for bluffing about the mod mistake

That’s not sus of DGB.

It is sus for other reasons.

Vax did do something scummy. It’s why I understand if he is the elim I just think Noraa is best and if she is town then we have deep wolves pt 2.

It is sus for me, it makes no sense to try to roleblock a claimed camper, unless he thought I was bluffing and I was a PR. The question in this scenario is, what Alignment he thought I was if I was a PR?

[Guillotina]

My exact theory is DGB is roleblock ing scum who bussed
Noraa is ninja
And if 4 scum to balance power G is second goon

Forget this theory. I'm town. So, the play is that DGB is scum who bussed for town cred and Noraa is the ninja.

Noraa has had every reason to want to kill me, why hasn't she?

[Guillotina]

Forget the if 4 scum theory*

[Guillotina]

still glamping

Noraa
Marky Mark
DrippingGoofball

Nono

Mathblade
Guillotina
JacksonVirgo

no elim

Infinity 324
Momrangal

LlamaMama

Vaxkiller

Beary dead

Horsewoman eliminated d1 was a

camper

Toogeloo killed night 1 was a

camper

AGamblingPig eliminated day 2 was a

goon

Flea the Magician killed night 2 was a

picnic basket gifter

Going through the list
Noraa >> could be Ninja
Marky Mark >> Can’t be ninja he’s vanilla (town or scum) prob town
DBG >> Roleblocker can’t be ninja
Me >> mason can’t be ninja
G >> can’t be ninja he’s vanilla (town or scum)
JV >> could be 1 shot vig + ninja all other times but that’s just weird. Or that scum intentionally killed Toog and DBG never blocked Pig. << Imho JV is only scum with DBG. I don’t see it but being fair to mom this is possible
Infinity >> Possible ninja but I doubt it because gut
Mom >> Mason can’t be ninja
Vaxkiller >> likely PGO therefore not ninja

It’s pretty likely Noraa is scum ninja here

Why put Mom in that list of analysis when you know she is the mason? your partner.

[Guillotina]

If Noraa is scum as I suspect she is she keeps you around for the elim

The idea that she is underestimating me like this boils my blood!

VOTE: Noraa

[Guillotina]

At least I can say that I knew it all along! Die scum!

[Guillotina]

I wish I was a vig

Me too, I would have shot you so long ago.

Wait...Let's try something!

Oh dear camper gods! Send me a trapper role! or an ITA Shot! I beg of you to bless me with a kill action so I can kill scum!

I promise! I pinky promise I will shoot that scheming bear who goes by the name of Noraa!

[Guillotina]

Still don't get why town would get a role cop instead of an alignment cop ability.

[Guillotina]

Oooooh Never mind, maybe this is how Nero Cain proves to me that role cops are possible for town alignments.

We discussed about this in another game where I told him that role cops were always scum aligned and that town alignments would get alignment cops almost 100% of the time.

[Guillotina]

VOTE: Vaxkiller

Since Noraa is not happening

[Guillotina]

I wish I was a vig

Me too, I would have shot you so long ago.

Wait...Let's try something!

Oh dear camper gods! Send me a trapper role! or an ITA Shot! I beg of you to bless me with a kill action so I can kill scum!

I promise! I pinky promise I will shoot that scheming bear who goes by the name of Noraa!

I would've shot u night 1 if I were vig

Maybe you did and I got protected, hence the no factional kill.

Scum in this game suck, they can't even kill right.

[Guillotina]

VOTE: Vaxkiller

Too save my scummy ass

I helped u fix some typos

Talk about making an ass out of yourself... "

TO

SAVE MY SCUMMY ASS" would be the sentence you were trying to paint me with.

[Guillotina]

Please avoid neon I can’t read it

Hit quote reply and read it that way.

[Guillotina]

@Math what is the specific question you needed to make to Vaxkiller?

Like he's been here and you are yet to ask him.

[Guillotina]

Then the best course of action is to yeet me! Im a camper and my yeet will help town figure shit out

This?

YES THAT!

Why does it bother you? Im guaranteed to flip town.

[Guillotina]

My thoughts are basically yours and moms. But here we go

Infinity is prob scum. Nora aint great.

Guils bad too.

BDG I hesitate on

When you reference "g" im assuming you ae referring to guil?

DAMNIT. I swear guil/nora was worried about the other.

To all of them. WHY?

[Guillotina]

Also i gotta say if we dont win this game against scum, we suck.

They failed a kill on night 1, they chose to kill a fruit vendor on N2. Like a competent scum team will always try to kill the masons here specially if they claim mason+. I wanna see at the end of the game who the scum is, to offer them my coaching services but not before inquiring about their experience in the game, because they either really suck at wolfing or the masons are the actual wolves.

I've never seen the claimed PRs surviving this long after hardclaiming early game, not in a 13 players set up where most likely there is only one protective. Scum, what the hell are you doing? Are you always this bad?
Im not complaining, keep sucking at wolfing!

[Guillotina]

I was trying to attract the shot day 1. Apparently, it was not effective.

I wanted to leave a few more pr hints

towards the end of that day, but the day ended quickly before I could.

I don't think scum no killed, but can't guil and Nora be scum? If so I'd rather have Nora since guil wants to die.

Where did you hint that you were a PGO on Day 1?

[Guillotina]

I was trying to attract the shot day 1. Apparently, it was not effective. I wanted to leave a few more pr hints towards the end of that day, but the day ended quickly before I could.

I don't think scum no killed, but can't guil and Nora be scum? If so I'd rather have Nora

since guil wants to die

.

Wrong, I don't want to die, but if you or Noraa are not a possibility, the obvious yeet to solve the game is me. I rather have you yeeted or Noraa though.

[Guillotina]

Also i gotta say if we dont win this game against scum, we suck.

They failed a kill on night 1, they chose to kill a fruit vendor on N2. Like a competent scum team will always try to kill the masons here specially if they claim mason+. I wanna see at the end of the game who the scum is, to offer them my coaching services but not before inquiring about their experience in the game, because they either really suck at wolfing or the masons are the actual wolves.

I've never seen the claimed PRs surviving this long after hardclaiming early game, not in a 13 players set up where most likely there is only one protective. Scum, what the hell are you doing? Are you always this bad?
Im not complaining, keep sucking at wolfing!

On phone but going over last few pages, I think this is an egopost from scum! guillo

More later if I can get my desktop working to save my thumbs

Oh yah, it's definitely an ego post where I king guillo mock my own faction, of course! you are brilliant! You just solved the game dude.

[Guillotina]

It's not that I can't explain it, there is nothing to explain.

Also this is a tough spot that the mod is in at the moment. It's quite clear there was a mistake made, and if he made another mistake by not sending additional flavor with the msg I got, its only further confirmation of my townness. Does he send that info? Like what would you do with a double mistake? Maybe he sent more flavor with previous msgs, but wasnt really supposed to?

Anyway, math you need to lay out fades for town before you off me. I still believe Nora and Infinity (but less so with infinity) are scum by play. Guil I guess is scum by mechanics?

If we assume you’re town it’s Nora+G or Nora+DGB imho

When kill failed G+Nora start day distancing is viable

Eeeeh, what you mean distancing? You are implying we were at some point acting friendly, I scum read her since day 1 and I've been vocal about it, don't associate me with Noraa, that's insulting.

[Guillotina]

Why is Vaxkiller ignoring my questions?

[Guillotina]

@guil

And I sure as hell don't town-read you

I didnt really see the pocketing with you

Well you will tomorrow.

I'll hammer horse if we need it. I just want to get to tomorrow.

Day 2 I attempted a naked vote on my scum read, and pushed it without reason, hoping for people to assume I had a PR.

VOTE: infinity

actually, second thought. Lets mass claim. Jump on infinity or claim scum.

How are the first four hints that you were a PGO and how is hinting PGO more ok than directly claiming it before EoD1?

[Guillotina]

@Vaxkiller, ISO me, you'll find more questions fro me that you never answer. I'd appreciate you answer them now.

[Guillotina]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: guillo

I'm getting math's paranoia tbh. 2996 in particular feels genuine.

Why are you voting me after putting pressure on Vaxkiller?

[Guillotina]

Idk I feel like vax is town

And because I don't then I must be scum? Is that the reason behind your vote on me?

Because it's quite peculiar that you voted right after I pressured Vax.

[Guillotina]

Ok, well now I get to see who is who in the PT.

I hope my dead helps town.

[Guillotina]

Idk I feel like vax is town

And because I don't then I must be scum? Is that the reason behind your vote on me?

Because it's quite peculiar that you voted right after I pressured Vax.

I mean I don't buy the theory that scum no killed just to frame vax, so the only other explanation is that you made the kill and we're blocked.

What is scum no-kill?

[Guillotina]

Idk I feel like vax is town

And because I don't then I must be scum? Is that the reason behind your vote on me?

Because it's quite peculiar that you voted right after I pressured Vax.

I mean I don't buy the theory that scum no killed just to frame vax, so the only other explanation is that you made the kill and we're blocked.

What is scum no-kill?

You are gonna buy the theory after I flip camper, if not, then what theory will you buy?

[Guillotina]

Idk I feel like vax is town

And because I don't then I must be scum? Is that the reason behind your vote on me?

Because it's quite peculiar that you voted right after I pressured Vax.

I mean I don't buy the theory that scum no killed just to frame vax, so the only other explanation is that you made the kill and we're blocked.

What is scum no-kill?

this isn't the first time it was mentioned.

I missed it, what is scum no-kill?

[Guillotina]

I missed it, what is scum no-kill?

its pretty self explanatory.

I have an idea, but I wanna make sure. Cause if it means mafia holstered factional kill, mafia factionals are mandatory.

[Guillotina]

I missed it, what is scum no-kill?

its pretty self explanatory.

I have an idea, but I wanna make sure. Cause if it means mafia holstered factional kill, mafia factionals are mandatory.

stop pulling this clueless look out. its a common noobscum tactic.

Mafia Factional Night kills are always mandatory, when have you seen mafia being able to holster without a cannoneer? Which I doubt mafia has one in a 13 players setup?